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And as we know, Virginia Haslong said, Virginia Jouffre, one of his most prominent survivors who I was very close with, said to me, couldn't be around Epstein. You couldn't be a pizza delivery boy and not know what he was up to. And I'm going to get into all of that and more. And why was Leslie Groff now claiming she had no idea what was going on? A woman who was named as one of the four unindicted co-conspirators in 2008 and then continued to still work for him after he was convicted for soliciting a minor for prostitution. And then in 2019, according to this file that I found, she was named as another potential co-conspirator and her lawyers spoke to the feds at that time. So Leslie had an opportunity to speak to the House Oversight Committee and get this. She wasn't even under oath. So she could make all these denials without any repercussions at all. So are we ever going to get to the truth? And why is it taking so long? And why is it just Leslie? What about the men who have been accused of sexual abuse? Why aren't they being called? I get into all of this and more on the show with Ari. He breaks it down to start with all of the allegations. It's a really comprehensive conversation. I hope you'll stick around for it. And as always, please leave your comments. We are going to go into depth, by the way, into the document that I mentioned is 86-page indictment memo from the U.S. Attorney in 2019 because it is so revealing and has barely been covered. I mean, I dig deep into it. What it means about how the feds actually looked at this case. The actual information inside is so revealing. I'm almost in shock that it hasn't been covered. But stick around, hit that subscribe button because that video is coming out soon. And you won't know about it unless you're a subscriber. We're back with civil rights attorney Nancy Erica Smith and Tara Palmieri, a veteran journalist who writes the red letter on Substack and has covered this story extensively. Nancy, I walked through how we got here because it matters so much to understand both the secrecy and this witness, your view of what we learned today. Well, my view is it took a lot of enablers to allow Jeffrey Epstein to conduct a child sexual abuse ring for decades. And many of those enablers probably have in their mind that Donald Trump gives out pardons to people who may need them or who will protect him or who will pay him, of course, but who will protect him. She had a non-prosecution agreement in 2008 to say that she didn't know anything. All this time after he was convicted is just not believable. Setting up massages three times a day, knowing that there's a cleaner, a janitor who testified that they sanitized the massage rooms three times a day. I mean, even Howard Lutnik says that the townhouse was creepy and he didn't want to go back because of the massage rooms. And if she may have known and the FBI was concerned that she and others crossed over into criminal conduct, why were none of them held accountable? How do you view sort of her history there? Well, women don't matter and children don't matter when you're comparing them to powerful, rich men. It's just this history of the whole world that we don't matter the way what powerful, connected, rich men matter. So he got a pass from the star, Alex Acosta, got to be Trump's first labor secretary by giving Epstein who everybody has to admit was a close friend of Trump for quite a few years. So Alex Acosta, everybody got rewarded. And now Todd Blanche, who defended Trump in the E. Gene Carroll case, is nominated to be the attorney general after giving a sweetheart deal to a convicted child sexual predator. She's in club fed prison with a dog, apparently. I mean, you know, so if I wanted a pardon, if I participated, if I enabled this kind of child sexual abuse ring, I would say I didn't know anything. I would lie because if you're getting dited, you are hoping that by covering up for Trump and his friends and the other powerful people that you're going to get a pardon. And then briefly, because I want to bring in Tara, is your view that the FBI or any solid investigators should have known better but had other reasons not to? Yes. Yes, definitely. Tara, your view on all this. The internet is coaching our kids. When boys hear that on repeat, it shapes how they see themselves. We can't leave it to those voices. We have to be louder, together with E. We need to coach them, guide them, back them. Building our boys up every chance we get. Be yourself. Back your mates. Confidence comes from the beginning. As proud partner of the England teams, EE has support and guidance to help build all our boys up on and off the pitch. Search EE Yes, boys. You know, it's interesting that Leslie was called this week because there is a prosecution memo that US Attorney Jeff Berman put together in 2019 shortly after he arrested Jeffrey Epstein. And it was about potential co-conspirators. And again, Leslie Groff is named as one. And it shows that the FBI actually interviewed her lawyer. So again, she knew that she was a target in this case. She was unwilling to give any information. And I look through some of the files that Jane Doe's filed. And one of them, Jane Doe 45, said that she booked their travel. She handled visas, accommodation and quote rules of behavior. I mean, how could a woman who worked for him from 2001 to 2019, who was in her thirties and forties, not know what was going on? Jennifer Rose, another victim of Jeffrey Epstein also remembered. Groff said she was critical in facilitating Epstein's abuse, not to mention the fact that when the FBI, I'm sorry, the local Palm Beach police, when they raided his home in 2006, there were so many pictures of underage girls on the walls and everywhere else. And there's so many witness accounts of young girls walking around naked from people who worked there that it's undeniable what was going on. I'm just angry that she is another person who is a potential co-conspirator who is able to speak to Congress, not under oath in this interview setting. I mean, these people need to be held to account. The other thing I want to mention too is that when I looked at this, this memo, this 86 page memo that Jeff Berman put together, the names of powerful men are mentioned that girls accuse of sexual abuse, including Leon Black, Jess Staley, Prince Andrew, and Harvey Weinstein. They are named as sexual abuse in this memo. But instead, the prosecutors are only focused on the women who facilitated the abuse. It's all about the women. And it shows you again what Nancy mentioned. They're not interested in pursuing these men. In fact, every time a woman brought up, undersworn testimony, what her experience was with this man, they named it matter of faculty, but had no interest in following up. He didn't even interview them. Well, I have you because you've covered this a lot. What do you think of the point that perhaps only under pressure and being dragged there? But unlike other issues, there was at least finally this bipartisan push to take this step long overdue. Do you see that as a difference from years ago on the Hill? Or what do you think's happening there? I just think that interviewing Leslie Groff, you're not getting to the heart of the matter. You need to be interviewing the men. You need to get Leon Black up there. You need to get Jeff Staley up there. I mean, I know Bill Gates is coming this week. This is just, it just feels like it's a political show. And yes, Leslie knows some things, but you're never going to get anything out of her unless it's under oath. And even then, it's behind closed doors. Why can't we watch this? Why is it not being televised? This is the biggest scandal of our time. Yeah. And to your point, they were rushing to get the Hillary Clinton video out, you know. And again, as mentioned, you've been on this. Nancy, on the legal side, again, I said I would quote her account. She says, after Mr. Epstein's conviction, I learned the government and his lawyers included me in the non-prosecution agreement as a potential conspirator. She says today, quote, I am not a conspirator and I never would have agreed to this language. Their decision to label me as a potential conspirator remains my scarlet letter. Oh, good. Then she should disavow the non-prosecution agreement and put herself out there to testify under oath in public and be confronted, literally confronted with some of the evidence you've shown today. If she wants to disavow the non-prosecution agreement and say, oh, I didn't know, I wouldn't have agreed not to be prosecuted. She literally says that. Good. Let's prosecute. Yes. So you don't buy it. I don't buy it one bit. And the reason we're here to answer your question earlier is because Trump and MAGA talked about a big democratic pedophile ring. And a lot of Republicans ate it up. And so they're stuck with it now that this is what they told people they were concerned about. Oh my God, sex abuse of children in a pizza place in Washington. They drummed this up and now they want to walk away. And people like Massey who believed it and cared about it are the victims. Yeah. Both of you have been all over this and also passionate on it, which is why we thought of you, Tara and Nancy. Thanks to both of you for joining me tonight. That was another episode of the Tara Paul Mary Show. Thanks so much for tuning in. As always, like, subscribe, rate, follow, tell all your friends about this show. It's how you stay on top of my latest exclusive reporting. By becoming a paid subscriber, though, you can get my exclusive reporting straight to your inbox. And it's a great way to support independent journalism, the kind of journalism that digs around, looks for the answers, isn't bought, is not for sale, is unafraid. And I can only do that with your support. I want to thank my producer, Dan Schiff, I want to thank Abby Baker, my other producer. I want to thank Adam Stewart, who does my graphics, and Dan Rosen, my manager. See you again soon. Thank you. Think of us as your midlife survival guide. New episodes released every Wednesday. Listen now on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts.
