Bo & Colin Interview Each Other (In Loving Memory of Bo Lueders)

Hello, welcome. It's hard-lord time. I love you, Bo This is take nine. So please forgive me if I have to make it fast to get through it but Our our beloved Bo has passed This has been the most difficult week I've probably ever experienced I'm sure His girlfriend Taylor Chris James his mom Wendy All of his friends appreciate the outpouring of love and support more than you'll ever know All the kind words and the stories you've shared. I've read them all. I'm sorry if I can't respond Everything really does come in waves you experience every human emotion at once but The memory of Bo is most important and that memory to all of you should be the kind Gentle sensitive person you're about to experience over the next two and a half hours a few months ago after recording eight all-time bangers in a row we thought how do we Keep this streak going And that resulted in this idea of like what if we interview each other and write up all these We wrote like 150 questions together and then narrowed it down to these And some some of them we were like fuck this is gonna be hard to answer but that's what seemed Different and exciting about it And then we watched it and we're like oh my god, what have we done? Once this is out there, it's like okay everybody knows all these things about us and maybe they don't need to So we decided to scrap it temporarily or hold it until the time felt right but Now I I watched it back on Friday in a in a state of like sheer isolation of just like if I'm not productive I'll explode And I really just felt like He was in the room and whoo and It brought me a sense of comfort that I hope it brings you all and That you get to experience this this different side of bow and learn all these things that ultimately we he did want to share and I did want to share but just maybe not yet and and It gets it gets dark at times, especially considering now So, you know you use everywhere but It is so I'm so grateful that this exists now Even just for informational purposes, you know, it's it brought it brought me comfort now And I'm gonna watch it again because I just want to hang out with my friend again, so Enjoy You Hello, welcome, it's hard work time. How you doing both doing great. Where are we we're in a strange ultimate dimension of my living room Because we're gonna do something very special today. Mm-hmm You know, we ask other people questions every week on this show We get these chronological details documentations of your favorite artists entire lives their entire discographies We figured we'd do something a little different this week. We're going to interview each other So that when we die You can reference this As on our wikipedia is to tell the full story of just who we are, you know, what we're all about We're starting with the men in the mirror exactly, you know, I'm asking him to change his ways Them yeah, exactly. So here we go. This is this is a me and Bo interviewing each other Crazy style just just to do it just to see just to have something out there Just so you can all get to know it's a little better because we get the Q&A's We do the Q&A's and everything through patreon and a lot of those at this point are like when are you gonna have this guy on? Yeah, I'm gonna have this guy. I'm gonna have this guy. I'm not really Questions that that we did we deliberate over you know and that's more what this is deep so we put together something that we could both answer and Maybe not always be comfortable about but that's when it's the best So here we go. Yeah Well, yes Where were you born and where did you grow up? I was born in Arlington Heights You were born in Arlington Heights, Illinois at the Arlington Heights Hospital November 16 1987 My mom and dad divorced when I was months old and then it was just me and mom We moved all over the great promised land of DuPage County, Illinois We I think I counted once by the age of 10 we moved nine times kind of a thing, you know, it was it was rentals It was lease hundred percent. I really feel like I grew up in a town called Bloomingdale That was when I was was like a child And there was a time where I lived in a town home with my mom in the basement My grandmother upstairs and her mother upstairs. So four generations and one household You had a great great grandma I had a great grandma. Oh great grandma. Yes, you knew her well Gigi was talked about earlier She was cool. She was very she loved me. I was the I'm the oldest Grand kid on my mom's side, right? So I had a great living great-grandmother. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. She outlived my grandmother Damn, I haven't did I tell the story about when she passed away and how she was like buried? I don't know Okay, quick one, but this is a true story. It was around Halloween. It was very creepy This lady She had a husband who I never met he died before I was born my great-grandfather He was a doctor. He was a very pretty well-off guy They were he was buried and put in a mausoleum their Italian very very traditional Italian So they were he's buried in mausoleum and then next to him was the plot for Gigi Mm-hmm. Well my grandmother Gigi's daughter Passed away of cancer when I was like 15 16 so Gigi gave her the the plot and then changed her last will and testament to be cremated and to be placed in the In the mausoleum in the wall with her husband, right? So that eventually happened Gigi passed away and At her funeral, you know how every family kind of has two sides, right? And mine is there's the bow inside which is my mom's and all the immediate family I know and then the Miniti side that's the Italian side the Miniti's there are little shots there a little crazy and They got her this urn that was kind of big think about a mausoleum It's a square and then the caskets concave or whatever so in that That right angle they wanted to put the urn Didn't fit So they had the thing off the marble was off and they couldn't fit her in there And it was they were kind of like well, this is what she wanted So that side of the family who they were they made all the arrangements everything they had like the final say They said well open them up put her in there So they pulled my great-grandfather out of the wall who had died in the 80s Opened up the bottom of the casket. I saw his shoes They put her like in between his legs Sealed them up and that was just like wow everyone was like that's beautiful My mom's side of the family the bow ones were all like what's like we were freaking on it was like October 29th, you know, I listen to the Misfits the whole way there So that was mom and Gigi and grandma They all they all together at last together at last and then eventually moved to Roselle and Roselle is where I like Cut your teeth quite my teeth went to high school and everything and there was Roselle, Illinois And I moved out of there when I was 18 into the city How early while you live there did you realize how close you were to Chicago and how oh what a beautiful? Thriving city it was yeah, so I eventually Might when my dad came back into the picture after he got clean and everything and of course found God Yeah, part of that was hanging out more which that's a silver lining of obviously there's a silver lining too using religion for that reason in my opinion and He would take me into the city a lot. My mom didn't like driving. She's she's a little little superstitious a little stish is And but my dad we would go there's a thing called the taste of Chicago Which is just a big food fest that would happen at the lake front and he would take me down there And that was some of my earliest memories. We go to Cubs games a lot It was always just like oh all you have to do is get on the Metra train, which is not a subway It's a commuter train and it went right through our town and it goes all over the Chicago and area and yeah That was that was very early on okay, probably the first show I went into the city for that was like a show It was when I was 13 and it was no effects at the house blues and that was we took the train downtown Wow What were you born? Where did you grow up? I was born in Bristol, Connecticut. That's right Very old world. Yeah, I'm the first yank in my whole bloodline What does that mean everybody southern except for me really everybody Taylor born in North Carolina Really Aaron my older brother born Tana Hill himself. Oh, yeah TTY my brother Aaron was born I Don't know Mississippi I think hmm my dad Mississippi my mom Lord all southern every everybody you're the first northern. I'm the first yank congratulations. Thank you man feels good Not an ounce of hate run him through my blood. No disrespect to the to the southerners. I love you. You're part of me Bristol, Connecticut, you like family. You like family me love them all except for a few oh my a big part of my childhood was there my my family moved to Bristol because ESPN started he was big tech like technical engineering Yeah, yeah, so he was a tech manager his career. That's cool, which was great. You know, he traveled a lot It was a very unique job to have he has a very unique skill set to this day that people still pick his brain about So he's one of the first kind of OG first wave ESPN guys. So ESPN is this new company in 1991 I don't I almost don't want to put the year I was born because the mythos online of me being 83 September 21st 1991 there you go and they're the fight the big reveal first. I got a Hubble elementary school. That's kindergarten first grade Then we moved to West Hartford, Connecticut for some reason. I think it's because I Didn't they didn't tell me much during this time. Okay, you know, I was very aloof very strange kid As I told you about yesterday that I won't reveal okay, but I you know, I was a very odd kid. I stuck to myself I Even though you had two older brothers. Yeah, I mean what Taylor's four years older than me, which is My room. Yeah, it's significant and Aaron is 11 years older than me. So he's I don't even know you, you know I'm partying hardest fuck. Yeah, we moved to West Hartford, Connecticut when my parents split up. That's when I'm in third grade So third and fourth grade I go to a school called Morley Elementary School in West Hartford, Connecticut And then a school called Whiting Lane Elementary School shout out to West Hartford Then we'd live in Hartford the whole preacher man thing happened, I'm sure we'll get into that later That's a very true story Bristol, Connecticut West Hartford, Connecticut are where Bristol was I was born West Hartford. I grew up Moved here when I was 12 which is you I think you kind of double digits are when you're in the new phase of your life truly Child I always said childhood Connecticut. Yeah, forward of years, California. Yeah, I experienced both both are a big part of who I am interestingly my dad when I was that childhood Worked for the Hyatt Company all the Hyatt Regencies in the Chicago land area Doing a V stuff tech guy. There you go. That's that's an interesting same game You know what I mean? Like yeah, he would set up all the AV stuff for conferences and that's exactly what it is so if there was a When in when you're watching live sports and they talk about the truck the guys in the truck the truck everything's happening from these trucks Right, my dad would set up the truck. Oh fast. Yeah much more Involved in what my dad was doing my dad is a lot of plug-and-play But you know interesting similarity where you and I were probably both Surrounded by cool tech and like yeah, just stuff and now we are no interested at the time But now but the but the the grip I mean we'll talk we'll get it. Yeah Who had the most influence on you as a kid positively or negatively I would say as a kid as an adult all around The answer is Taylor. You know has to be my brother Taylor I I just wanted to be like him perfect, you know and musically He likes cool stuff, you know, we liked all the same movies all the same games. I wanted all his action figures I took on his figures The kid all the cool comic books. He just had he had every interest that I Wanted you know Now do you never ended? Do you think that is because You wanted that or do you think that's because he was your older brother and he was right there? I think I think I Think yeah, I mean, I don't know that I would end it how to have ended up the same at all Had he not been around do you remember something? I know you've talked about bands that you found yeah, he didn't show you and you were like Was there any hobby you were into that he wasn't that you were like this is me. This is my thing I would say wrestling became much more my thing than his pretty fast Yeah, that that makes sense. He got off the train early track and I was like this is still gonna be my life Yeah, dad and Taylor and mom But yeah, I would say overall Without him I I the me That is known does not exist. Yeah, even the things that If I'm around the two of you or just around Taylor or just around you like whatever the dynamic is You guys are very similar just in sense of humor. Yeah reasoning the way you analyze a little more rational I think you know, I think There's a lot of time where I got to be like you can't do that Yeah, it's It's a it's a he's he's been he was my biggest influence and all around and Didn't want much to do with me until I was 16 oh wow. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, that's pretty late. Yeah, we weren't particularly close It was just like until I was pretty good at drums He went yeah, he was like I could use this now But at first it was I learned how to play drums on his kit whenever he wasn't home Yeah, cuz I was like I better get this shit. I better hit this China now It's step up shit straight straight up. No, you touched my drum stick Yeah, so one day he can't got home and I was pretty good And he was like when the fuck did this happen? He's just come back and wow and then keep doing that. Yeah, and then pretty much Jun yeah, Jun What about you who had the most influence on you? I'm gonna I'll break it up into the two of childhood and post childhood. It was my dad. I Loved my dad my dad. He was like my guy because Imagine it. Yeah, I saw him once a week. Yeah, and for that one week that one visit After school he picked me up with a pop in the car. Yeah, we'd go to flood ruckers There we'd go to blockbuster in the same parking. I can't imagine a better day today You don't you know saying so we go to flood ruckers. We'd rent a game. Yeah, he It's funny to explain this he's in this is he's in his 30s I maybe late 20s at the time, but he had a roommate in a condo his name was Rick he was from Sturgeon Bay, Wisconsin, which is right by Green Bay and That guy worked at a Funko land oh Pre-game stop pre-eb Funko land so he would always have the new systems. We'd play it. He would like set up the little cars remember the Electric cars and like he had instruments and that's where that began. He had a stand-up an upright piano in his condo a Yamaha always had guitars around and was into My mom loved the who and that's it. Yeah, my dad loved Michael Jackson. Yeah, dad loved Led Zeppelin my dad liked other stuff and And then there would be like my mom would take a vacation maybe once a summer and so I'd spent two weeks with my dad and He's gonna ball out He would buy me toys and all the stuff and then I also got two Christmases and I've talked about this before mom killed it on Christmas Dad killed it on Christmas. Interesting. So I got pretty spoiled I was definitely the the the only child of a Dorf Forest family got the two Christmas thing where people were like lucky and that was true But if in hindsight it makes me so sad for my mom because then she's the disciplinary and she's the one being like No, you can't stay up playing NBA Jam. Yeah, I was did it. It was the same dynamic. Yeah, where it was the two parent separate households Had to go to mom's to work. Yes went to dad's to play. Yes start to resent mom because of it Love time with dad because you don't see him often by the time Music and guitar he got me my first guitar when I was 10 It was a white Fender strat that I still have talked about this the next girlfriend of mine Oh, I in high school gave it to over COVID contacted me get it back to me. Wow, still have it. That's cool I learned every blink when he's he's long you can imagine on that bad boy That started to come around and then skateboarding started to happen around 10 We were living in Roselle at when I was 10 and that's when I met the next big influence, which is Chris Mills Chris Mills is my guy. Mm-hmm. He's my Taylor. He's he's a year old in me a great older than me. We went to the same middle school and on and he lived half a mile for me and One day on the we're out. We had the same boss and one day on the boss He was like you play guitar because he was showing talent. I had my guitar with me and I was like, yeah, it's white It's Arctic white squire, you know, like I didn't know he was an older guy Yeah, asking me and he was like, oh, he's just come over sometime Drums and that was like how that all started and this is after you'd already beefed him So I didn't beef him but he beefed my friend. Yeah for Mooney another Chris It's well documented. It's well documented, but it's true Chris Manzara. Who's a good guy? Mm-hmm monster halo player He was a beast Yeah, he was fucking on one he was the pistol but um Chris Mills I very much the same as you and Taylor Whatever he was into I wanted to be into And he had an older brother who was showing him everything so Whatever Chris was into I wanted to be into I wanted to he was the only drummer in in this suburban and the Lord knows We need him, you know, I mean one of the most precious resources in the world truly it goes diamond drummer Emerald yeah, yeah, yeah oil oil and His brother had showed him all the bands minor threat and AFI huge one Yeah, if I was Chris wanted to be Adam from AFI and I wanted to be in a band with Chris so that was just that and Adam and Bo, you know and Now Chris and I have been in bands together now for 25 years. That's better than that That's it. What did you learn early about money work or survival? So my first there I know We read I had a little bit I know there's a real job thing which is a different answer than this so my first job period was 14 I had to get a workers permit. I worked at a hot dog stand in Roselle called bogies. Good dog. No longer there Okay, dog Okay, snap good small kind of thing, you know Vienna Vienna beef decent but not much now Not much that The owner I don't remember his name. It was not bogey He's he offered to hire me with this work permit which I think meant I could work like eight hours a week Or something something hilarious And he said I'll pay cash under the table my dad was like that's great but You have to take half of every dollar fifty cents out of every dollar and put it away into savings Try to teach me early. I'm sure you about taxes or early maybe or just saving it did not stick saving sucks So but here's the hilarious thing this guy paid me 425 an hour Okay, so if I worked four hours, I made 17 dollars So that means because of my dad I pocketed $8.50 for four hours of Scrubbing tables and floors and doing the cash trap. You gotta shoot this guy. You know what I mean Yeah, so I learned that really early long that Torch and pitch for well, no just just because something pays you doesn't mean it's worth your time Oh, yeah, I learned that really quickly. Yeah, so that was something and I also learned that like I Really quickly was like well, I'm a kid. I'm 14. I at least got you know four or five years left in the house I don't need to save anything. You know, that was I was like, I'm gonna eat smart the electricity is gonna be on But there was other stuff along the way, you know, we were My mom certainly got child support from my dad But you know, she much like your mom was like figuring her stuff out and working various jobs and I was a total latchkey kid I was watching myself after school from like fourth third of fourth grade. It's a little fuzzy but I remember having to walk some couch cushion change to town hall and pay the water bill or the electric bill and stuff, you know and You know, that's just kind of how it was but mom absolutely never let me go hungry and always made Christmas dope. So Isn't it and that's that's kind of where I'm getting with my answer to this is that my dad so I my dad Traveled a lot for work like what very rarely home, okay? And like that's ultimately what ended their relationship because the TV production he would be gone He would be in New Zealand for the for America's Cup for three months. Holy shit. Yeah, so But I learned very early. I wasn't like Jamie from Jingle all the way Like my dad's only working he doesn't love me Taylor and I knew He's working because he has to and it was like the The the drum set in the garage is there because because our dad is working. Yeah, this Metal Gear Solid one That he brings me home from Japan imported because he's working there for this month is because he's working there that month, you know So it's like we very earned very learned very early that there's no resentment towards like our dad busting his ass our whole lives to make sure that we don't starve, you know and Dad I hope you don't mind me putting this on there, but he Part of that was him not paying taxes for a really long time To in just just 1099 just so his his kids and his wife are happy He's 1099 and he didn't pay for a long time so our house in Bristol was foreclosed on and I died I'm digressing Davey Havoc style, but But yeah in terms about money and working survival is just that like everybody does it and it It takes a lot of it takes all of your time basically and your free time is valuable and whatever he did have that valuable free time It was spent with us Or if he's really tired or needed to take a tenor. Yeah, which is a two-hour nap. Yeah Very famously in our house Then just like it's because he's busting his ass. So it's it's we we learned the value of money through How hard he worked the literal sweat of his yes his in it like he just got a break, you know Yeah, he he's not retired. He retired for a little bit and has a job again He just he can't fucking stay away and our mom has been like in and out of jobs and now Teachers music independently. She's a great music teacher. So yeah, all right all things all things She can teach everything that's crazy. She knows fundamentals of everything enough to teach it all but she's like a mean pianist yeah What's a childhood memory maybe from that time period that quietly shapes how you act today? And I focus on that keyword is like act childhood memory Because you're you're a you're clever like a fox, you know what I mean? Yeah, you're you're very good on your feet you pivot Really well childhood memory. I my first experience with racism. Whoa was my grandparents my mom's parents So we had this Taylor and I had to go stay with them a few times The first time that we ever did was when I decided a I didn't like them didn't want to go back and didn't agree with them Taylor and I went to they took us to blockbuster What else are you gonna do? You got to keep these kids busy? I think I only went there twice once was with Taylor once was alone The first day Taylor and I rent Good Burger I'm a dude He's the dude. She's the dude. We're all dudes. Hey We rent Good Burger put it on It's an American classic. We've seen it 50 times. We saw it in theaters But we wanted we wanted to experience it again as we did Mm-hmm our grandma rips it out of the BCR and it's like you're not fucking watching this shit Goodbert and Taylor I'm I'm seven Taylor's 11 and we're like fuck this lady man Fuck her was like what she fuck what she thinks fuck what she believes like we know that's wrong Which the implication was because they're oh, yeah, 100% whoa, and it was like fuck you wow so like I mean in rocks. Oh dude. Can I don't count? Yeah, come on dude all day So they went to bed and we watched it all night, you know as we did that was that was I'm sure I had I had like vaguely experienced, you know witnessed prejudice in my life before that yeah, but that was like, you know my family member Thinks this way I come to like I'm I'm a product of this my mom as Liberal as they come mm-hmm somehow was like I don't yeah, she made it out and she's fucking she's the opposite of that So I you know when we told her about that she was like fuck that wow watch whatever you want In that regard yeah, but and our end of day is VHS. She she burned I think Because we're watching satanic stuff in the preacher man's apartment. Yeah, I've got a pure rebellion Yeah, that taught me like okay, I'm not I don't I'm not that okay, and I will never be that And I don't fuck with this lady. It's a good one and I don't need to know her when I I was somehow my mom really looked out I Found punk and the straight edge thing really early dude And so I wasn't you know I did I snuck some cigarettes and and like she kept like vodka like in the cabinet or wine or whatever Mom's liquor, okay, you know what I mean, and I would sneak that and like I just I thought it stank I didn't I didn't get it. You know and I don't even remember It was so funny my mom would like chain smoke in the house and I would like smoke when I was like oh my god She's good enough. Yeah No, the walls are sweating. Yeah But She she recognized in me really early on I think because like I was a terrible student, but I wasn't a bad kid I was never really in trouble so the the rule of the house was like Especially once I got my license it was like You do whatever you want you stay out sleep over to friend's house if the parents are cool with it You do whatever you want you're going to school And if you get in trouble if you're in jail, I'm not coming to get you like that's that's you kind of a thing Mm-hmm, and I could call her bluff a little bit. She's a she's a softy It gave me a sense of responsibility because There was a point in time where she had three jobs. She she had To we should have eight hour a day job and then like a side hustle and then she would like for a while She worked at Dave and Buster's that open she worked at she would bartender's wait tables or whatever But she developed that trust with you very early It was just a matter of like I don't want to put her through anything. She's got enough on her fucking player She's trying to pay for this house that that she got us, you know in Roselle and and I just The memory that made it all solidify was I think I've told the store before where we bought the airsoft come Yeah, and I got arrested and I think the cops are trying to scare me and my one friend Chris a different Chris And like took us and mug shot us a fingerprint at us like the whole really don't think they booked us Oh, that's cool, but they think they were trying to kind of try to scratch And called my mom so you don't have a record correct I was also a minor so it wouldn't have mattered Okay, but called my mom my one phone call I was like mom and like explained to her what happened and she was like you better find a ride home Kind of the thing now ironically Roselle is I walked home. It was very small town. It was no no problem probably two miles and Got home and she was like what happened I explained and she was like, oh What are you doing tonight? You know she believed me she trusted me and it's because I Was a pretty reasonable kid and just kind of instilled in me the sense of like hey if I'm like Chill yeah, and like nice. Yeah, I'll probably be all right when it comes to like interpersonal stuff And I think I went out and saw Anchorman that night. I believe that was the same night. I think so one of those kinds of movies may be super bad But I think anchorman. Yeah, our dad was very much the same way We're it was very much like a you get one. Yeah. Yeah, right get one. We I stole from the CVS So I got one, you know dad picked me up and was like don't do that again. It was like I get it Yeah, Mrs. Fields cookies are good Dry I gave them some good. Yeah. Yeah. I was like dad. You want this cookie? He had no idea He was eating stolen goods But didn't go to jail or anything like that And but he was the same way with the trust were but he would see the cobalt You know the CD crazy dark place and be like I'll pick you up in three hours. Here's 30 bucks get three shirts Best day in my life. Best days of my life. Yeah, you know And he just knew very on he was like, you know, my kids are straight edge. I'm gonna go home. I'm gonna get high as book And not worry about the time that wears off. I'll pick them up Yeah, yeah, there's been moments late in life where he's like he hid weed from us our whole lives which I really respect like Every time that Taylor and I went into his office, it would be like a Every time he still does it out of sheer instinct. Yeah, he still does it's hilarious But he'd be like, I ain't going good coat ball tonight anything going on You know and or he would take us to Six Flags and sit outside smoke weed the whole time But there was just that trust there very on it's very important. Yeah What kind of kid were you socially? I I didn't I was an only child of Two parents who were the black sheep of their families. My dad was a alcoholic drug addict. Mm-hmm. He kind of got ostracized He eventually obviously made his way back in but like at that time it's kind of on the outs And probably breaking his back to make childcare payments. Yeah child support and then my mom the same thing She was kind of the black sheep in a weird way had a odd relationship with her My aunts and uncles they both have I have tons of aunts and uncles didn't really hang out with cousins didn't you know? So it's very much. It was just me and very much just me and my mom. So when she was gone I would Wander and find kids and sometimes that was skateboarding. Isn't it incredible? It's bizarre dude you on a bike in town There's got to be a kid. Yeah, I gotta play kid. I'm gonna go play with somebody. I'm gonna find somebody to play with yeah Sometimes neighbors. I did have a neighbor right next door who was really into Wcw and no view versus NWO revenge. I'll do it good game The greatest so we'd play that a lot. They're in a Pokemon all the obvious stuff Steven big Pokemon yeah and And so that was cool, but eventually I You know I had to make my own friends and I do like to think of it or obviously make your own friends Would you make your own family in a way and like I said? I've been really close with Chris for a really long time James just a little bit less You know and those are my brothers and that is how I have to How I had to kind of do that, but man, I I remember days after school where I would like Okay, all right. What can I call? Who can I call cuz my house? Dude, I didn't like being at home alone. I was scared You were the scared kid I was afraid of things I didn't like being alone I didn't like storms and like the dark. Yeah, I was scared of stuff So I would I would call and kind of go down my list and call the house numbers and see like hey You want to hang out? Yeah, and I you know, it's so funny. There's one guy. I've never really talked about Brian. I'm a day He had a mom from Japan and a dad from Italy Cool last guy that Brian was awesome. He and I were really really good friends for a long time and then in high school we just kind of naturally and he had all the video game systems and stuff he lived right by Chris too and I Would just go over all the time and I remember calling him one time. They're like, hey, you want to play? He'd be like, yeah, we can hang out and it was like Yeah, yeah, we can hang out and that was you know, probably fifth grade sixth grade and that's just kind of who I was I was I was really Desperate for approval and to be accepted and and also At that time we had moved from Looming elder result. So I was the new kid Fifth grade fifth grade. He's that cool or were you it was kind of cool It was kind of like like were you cool the mysterious new kid? I was I was the the the two cool kids were Brian and this guy Keith and And it was so funny. It's so funny to think about but we were like Captain Planet or something We were very very we did skits together jackass was around and you know It was all starting to become a thing and and we were really tight and then we were everything was really cool And I was just I wanted to be liked. I wanted to be accepted. I wanted friends because I was lonely You know and that was very much That if you draw that to where I am today it makes total sense. Yeah, now I have friends all over the country Yeah, yeah, you know what I mean But you what were you like you? Little weirdo. I was a little weirdo. Yeah I would say until I was 14 or 15 I was Taylor's brother, you know We're like he had this incredible group of friends and all these bands So early and I was always like God. He's so cool like bands. He was listening to it He's in Wow, he was in bands very young. Yeah when when I was a like little kid And I thought that was so cool and I had kids around the neighborhood my Grinsfelder Shane Richardson It's on Chicago Sammy the homie Sammy I didn't really I would say Shane Richardson was my first best friend. Okay, and we had a pretty big falling out His brother Ray incredible skateboarder absolute fucking psycho. Oh rub boogers on his walls. It's crazy his own Yeah, like later and like like like kind of like teens just fucking I Remember a vivid memory of being in his room and seeing him do that and being like I gotta go But as a kid socially I was I Was pretty shy I was I was a performer, you know, yeah, I wanted to perform Yeah, I wanted to act I wanted to I went I wanted to perform all I was a I did musical theater But I was still shy and very insecure very self-conscious I played with action figures for a long time. Yeah a long time. How long? Mid-teens, oh, that's not I don't think that's that crazy. I get it But like a long time so but figure this though my mid-teens are 2000 yeah Brother, I'm spin kicking and then going home and oh and writing a screenplay, you know with with the X-Men I don't think that that's a long time. I get it. I get it. I just had a fast. I was fascinated by them I loved I love the stories of the world. I love I love I love toys to the stick a lot of them Socially I didn't have a lot of friends in Connecticut. Okay, this like kids in school didn't really like me I was a weird kid really. Yeah, or you know black and But looking back it's me in like Yoda shirts. Yeah, but I'm like the freak So when we moved to California, I made up this lie That I that we were moving to California because I got cast as Krillin in the Dragon Ball Z movie And that dude Even just crack it up that changed my life Krillin Krillin I was just So and dude and like you there's an IMDB Wow, so but but like it started getting around the news that a dragon ball dragon ball evolution that movie was getting made And you really I had no idea It was complete coincidence, so I'm telling everybody I'm Krillin in Dragon Ball evolution and like I know I'm like that I didn't even Dragon Ball Z. They don't know that like Krillin's probably not in that story yet But I'm like, yeah, I'm Krillin and then everybody starts being so cool to me and they're like because I had done Christmas Carol locally at the Harvard stage which is Broadway in Hartford. Hmm legit like the biggest play the first year. I was the turkey boy Which the turkey boy in the Christmas Carol is in the end when Scrooge turns around Yeah, and he flips the coin and he tells the kid go get me a turkey a Christmas turkey I was the boy who was like Had to catch his coin and and I was one of the like the street urchins singing the songs So next year I was Peter Cratchit who is tiny Tim's older brother. Not bad brutal role really because the ghost Christmas future stuff. I'm grieving him and I have to read I have to like cry in a British accent and read this Bible because That has made the Lord. I remember vividly so I've been like acting a lot I was I played I Was the the post-beast Beast in Beauty and the Beast so like after he becomes a guy. Hell. Yeah, not bad. So I was like, damn you think I'm handsome Yeah, right and then I was and then when I moved here. Oh, just get my head a little bit So I'm Krillin to everybody And then and dude everybody's like Colin we're gonna miss you so much. I'm like for real. That's awesome, man They're never gonna know I'm lying. They're gonna online once the movie comes out But it's Hollywood, baby, you know some things happen. So it's crazy That night patrol happens and I'm in this movie because I've been lying Thought my whole life. Yeah, yeah, where it was like that was like the first big lie I ever told feel like okay. I love lying. I told some fibs Dude lies for sure. There was a few people you kid at the school do it and that's like so I moved here. Yeah My it's a crazy culture shock West Harbor, Connecticut Why does snow sure moved here and it's like I'm the way I'm the only like one of three white kids in my whole school Whoa, so my mom walks me to class my first day in seventh grade, you know, yeah, seventh grade is a little late It's a little late and and my shirts tucked in its uniform Because of because of gangs. Yeah in Van Nuys So my mom walks me to my first class and I can tell everybody's like this kid's a fucking nerd Were you did you have a bald head? No, dude? I like Mid-length face cover really hair Yeah, I mean Were you tall? No, no, no, you were still sure. Oh, it was very I was five five foot until Halfway through ninth grade. Oh, okay. Yeah, I saw a little guy. I'm believable crowned. I Was absolutely smart. You're more of a yamsha these hundred percent sure. I thank you Yeah, whatever Vegeta's the goal always always we'll get there. We're working on that. We'll go on yeah. Yeah, that's fair I mean, we're all I'm future trunks is really yeah, that's the act of we're being really here Second day, I'm like fuck that I see people wearing jackets that aren't the uniform So I'm like, oh you can wear jackets Sepultura windbreaker no shit to so you were already Taylor had already. Oh, I was I liked cool shit very that's impressive I love sick of it all biohazard and Pantera in Third fourth fifth grade seventh grade. I was like have you heard of Ledger like that? I mean dude, that's it. But at the same time it was like you'll Lincoln Park Yeah, Lincoln Park and sick of it all maybe the two best bands ever like that was my okay. I was very confused. Yeah Sepultura windbreaker day two shit changed and I had seen that the new guy the movie was out. So I learned a lot from that On what to do? Intimidate people day one day to some tell people I'm good at karate The Krillin thing is gone though. Oh, okay, but I'm like, yeah, I'll fuck you up, you know What's up, and they're like Dan's white boys crazy. Okay. Yeah, okay What was expected of you growing up my mom? My whole life was like you're going to college. I Don't care what you're doing. Mm-hmm. You're going to college So Figure that out. You know what I mean? It was it was very much expected Like I said before I wasn't a bad kid I was a bad student Junior in for a lot and come yeah, it's crazy junior senior year of high school. I did not do homework outside of school Any work including projects and like book reports and like the and the highlighting and annotating I Would do that in school. I do that during class or I would if I had a study hall Goaded study halls pretty sick. I never had one study halls pretty dope I took film instead and then my film teacher married my mom. Shout out Kevin the homie Yeah, and anyway So it was I was a terrible student I did not I I literally Think I had like a two-point something GPA very very bad So I didn't get into any schools obviously not a one so I ended up going to college to do page Which is a community college? but Chris the great example Started at college to do page now has his master's. He's the fucking he's he's a whiz kid He was kissed on the forehead by Jesus. He's it was kid. My mom would eventually kind of you know get a fresh start with her life And move to Texas. Yeah, she's now a paralegal. She works. She came back to Chicago. She works with the city of Chicago All of that is all good, but it was a definite like hey, you're doing this and the deal was if you go to community college for a couple years We'll cover everything so even when you transfer we can cover all of it Not even half of that happened That sucked mm-hmm and but I knew I remember sitting in an algebra two class Being like I can't wait for this tour. That's in two weeks probably the first arms way to work. Yeah, and then being like Why would I come back? Why would I come back? I'm not coming back. I hate this. Yeah, this is all the kids from high school What is algebra two gonna do for me? lit literally literally nothing So I can have a calculator in your pocket So from from mom, that's what was expected it did not from dad The big division in our life was of course religion Bush era Gay marriage abortion all the hot topics that you would expect anything that makes a punk. Yeah a punk He disagreed with particularly religion. Yeah, he was he's a very devout Christian especially at that time He's he's chilled out like you do But at that time it was it was serious and there were Arguments where I was ran out of the house kind of thing and it was uh It sucked so what was expected me of my dad was was to be a good little Christian Hmm, and I did I he went to The largest church in North America. It's called Willow Creek Community Church. It's now Now it's Joel Steens is bigger. Oh, right? Yeah, but at the time in Barrington, Illinois was Willow Creek massive 14,000 person auditorium type church to basketball courts Starbucks fuck off in the church kind of a thing the head pastor had some Some CP stuff. Yeah, of course gone shacker and the church remains the same but I Would go there and interestingly the one the silver lining of that is I worked in the Production booth mm-hmm. I did audio. I ran the board learned a couple too tragic I ran the board for the the band that would play and then they would do skits with like labs and wireless mics and stuff and I learned a little bit about lighting and learned about Running an audio board and setting up and routing and snakes and all you know is that a gazada exactly So that was cool, but the two expectations my parents really laid on me. I did not fulfill. Okay. Yeah, that's what about you Okay, well mom Mom really would have would have really liked that I go to college Yeah, and I think my in there was a little part of my dad that believed Because his dad was a surgeon a military surgeon So he moved around constantly until he split he went to California hippie-dippy Grandpa my dad grandpa was military surgeon and then and then regular surgeon till the end He just died last year So I think there was a little part of me that was like my dad had such a contentious relationship with his dad That he spent his whole life Doing the opposite of what he did where he's like I'm not gonna have my kids feel the way I do about him So my dad was very good listener and a very attentive person Taylor is Inbanks Taylor's touring with crematorium when he's 17 years old crazy, you know, yeah and I'm younger than that thinking like My brother's already doing this thing and I'm like What am I gonna do in college in college? You know first? I want to be an actor all through through middle school sim and I had a my drama teacher in middle school Lacey Stanley Ruinned every aspiration I had for perfect Like deeply insecure unfulfilled person who projected that onto her students, you know loser classic Yeah, yeah class message me on Facebook years later apologizing with a different name And it was like I ignored it because I was like, I don't know the fuck this is and then she said something I understand if you don't want to talk to me. It's like, you know, you're a long woman I was a child get over yourself. Yeah deserve nothing for me and you will get nothing for me My mom would have liked me to go to college, but I was the I'd like you the worst student Imagined not doing it. There's no way I'm doing at homework. I was the opposite where ninth and tenth grade. I've flunked everything Junior or senior year was like I have to graduate high school Otherwise so that I can go to Europe. Yeah, or I'm stuck. You know totally. Yeah So I did that junior junior and senior year. I locked the fuck in damn Found out I got a the be in English that I needed to graduate as I was graduating Marianne who the retired Off like the office the head of the office the office administrator basically My hero she like she fluff some of she she put with honors on my diploma. I Did not have a single goddamn honor. I have honor not there, you know So them my mom expected and hope for college and hope for me better for me to be a better student My dad was like my kids are musicians That if this is college, you know and and like yeah, how right he was it is This is what we get to do now Yeah, you know and it's and it's all through that for us that he had of that like Those shitty tours and the good tours and the good shows and bad shows everything I did from 17 when I graduated high school to Pre-covid and now is is like really shaped Who I am my whole life and so the the the expectation that my dad the realistic expectation that that my dad had of By listening and observing the passion that we had for hardcore music Was was like the the Created the goal of like all right. I'm gonna do it my dad thinks I really can do it My brother's already doing it right and then eventually my brother wants to do it with me. Mm-hmm That's crazy. So when when when? We'll get to we'll get there. I imagine we'll get there in a second Yeah, there's a band that my brother and I start together. Yeah that then the wheel start turning Yes, and then yeah, then it's non-stop. What did you first feel misunderstood? Very early. Yeah, very very early Yeah, oh, you know I Was the smelly kid and and early in elementary school. Oh, no. Yeah, I was a bad It wasn't a shower kid. Yeah, you don't get real clean with you don't get very clean you have fun Yeah, fun feels great hell of a time. I loved baths. Yeah, but I my mom would make me turn on the shower to add No, yeah, my mom and my parents my dad was working my mom was I don't know So I think I think when Elizabeth Finer pointed out that I was the smelly kid in class one day that was when And and you know Elizabeth, I don't blame you I needed to hear that because it really that informed like if I smell something on me now. Oh Oh, I think about Elizabeth fire totally 30 years later. Yeah, I'm thinking about one person like damn It was like Elizabeth fire was right. You know whoa, I would say that was the first time where I was like Hey, I don't think people like me or respect me around here. I'm so young. Yeah. Yeah, and And I need to change so that night. I was like mom. I'm learning how to shower Like get leave me alone. I'm not I don't take baths anymore. Okay So I don't want that shit. I don't want them to the fish shapes. Oh Soap any more. I need the real I need a bar or dial And I need to get clean. I need to clean up my act dry my skin exactly. Yeah, no hundred percent that was that was a I Was not understood and and really all throughout elementary school and middle school. Yeah, I Was very different until all the things that made me different became cool And that would happen in seventh grade How about you the first thing that comes to mind was I Lied a little bit earlier about the Led Zeppelin thing in seventh grade before that the first band was blink when you do Okay, that was my first like I can't believe the next thing was kid rock hmm, I Think that's even out of order chronologically. I think enema came out after double without a cause I could be wrong You think could rock kid rock was the first thing you love No, no, no, I think I found them out of order is what I'm saying Like I think I was already into blink because I remember enema was fifth grade. Yeah 96 8 by what's a bar went platinum in our household I couldn't tell her and I were like, this is the hardest music ever. I couldn't believe it, right? So I was obsessed with that in sixth grade. I had Very like the haircut I had recently like hair parted on the middle down to mid length Baggy clothes skate board, you know world industries Independent zero like skate stuff. I didn't really skate. I just gave a little I didn't know shit I wanted to be Cky. I wanted to be Jack ass. Who did you know? Yeah? At a dance sixth grade dance DJs taking requests. I love this one. I requested ball with a ball I'm the only one I mean the whole time it's two hops this time, you know the whole time and it's Every time I get this anger on one of the greatest songs ever anger and Stuff like that. I full 65, you know what I mean? Like like really like Early why 2k shit for sure? and I say hey man Got kid rock on there and he had ball what about was the only one he had maybe cowboy but by what about Was the hit it came on and I didn't even look when it kicked in I started head banging full body Yeah, Phil on some oh full in half had bang long hair and I'm probably wearing some kind of silly shirt Yeah, like like black shirt with like red necktie. No, you know a short sleeve No, it was like it would be like and one like tight Oh dope Do you know what I mean to the dance to the dance because no one wore like it was middle school Oh, we were kind of formal we were not this was like a like Notty it wasn't homecoming. It was like the fall day at the sock hop Yeah, yeah, yeah, and I remember stopping and like starting to sing around and looking and everyone was just looking at me Like the whole gymnasium of six. They think it was cool Sixth through seven through eighth graders in my middle school. We're just like, you know that meme where it's all the girls like yeah That you weren't it so nobody was like go bow A couple of a couple of dudes came up to me and hit me on the shoulder like all right man enough buddy you know what I mean and That hurt dude was that your first bang over? I don't remember. I don't think so dude Do you remember your first bang over cuz mine was something like that where at an assembly? Hmm. They like Like a like at a fucking dare assembly or something Yeah, they played like metal and I'm like me and my friends are like yeah Yeah, and we saw how they're playing hardest bug in our chairs and I can't pick my head up after and I'm walking Like this and they're like holding me up. I'm like, oh, I'm sure I'm exaggerating But I remember that feeling of being like oh dude you can like head bang yourself into like too hard I yes, I do remember the first one a friend of mine From my old from Bloomingdale from the old school Old school had a birthday party had sleepover. Yeah, and had like ten kids over we played 007 gold nine horse the greatest multiplayer the greatest Split-screen multiplayer experience of all time dude and going back to when my dad worked at the at the Hyatt He hooked up my n64 to two TVs and then covered The other person's point of view because he was like, you know where I am. This isn't fair Yeah, what do what do people call that? screen peeking Something something peeking but screen check screen check your screen checking, but little did he know I knew the spawn points Dad, I knew the order you want to go archives pistols only licensed to kill with me. You're fucked. Yeah So I still unless your odd job and you have that height advantage. I got it Okay, we would also like Ken Griffey Jr. Major League Baseball, dude, I'd beat him like 34 to 0 dude It's so adults are so pathetic if you're so bad what's crazy is I think I could smoke most kids at anything. I Want to start playing you know smash bros melee smash brawl is great Melee it's tough for the gamecube with that's the one you can be cracked dude Like vein is all collectively cracked it. I know but I want to play that like I really feel it anyway. Yeah Um The bang over my friend had a sleepover His oldest sister snuck him a Budweiser. We all had a sip of that. Hmm. What'd you think? Stank discuss Stanky. Yeah, I didn't get it. I was I was legitimately probably 10 But a little song called faith a cover by a limp biscuit had come out dude Put that on and we beat the shit out of each other There's like 10 kids in a little kids bedroom and we had like a little mosh pit and I remember just like oh You know I remember that But yeah, that was the first time I felt truly like oh This thing I'm into no one is actually into yeah, maybe that makes me not cool And even though it like that that album sold millions of copies devil without a cause he's going platinum Yeah, I brought uh Lincoln Park into show until Very early and that they were appalled Really and that's that's pop music now, you know Weird that's odd. I know Weird world. Oh What's something from your childhood that you still haven't fully shaken? Have I talked about time traveling in this on hard lore before? Oh There's a phenomenon that happens where people think they time travel I have time traveled three times in my life and I don't mean I went back in time. I don't mean I went I lose time Oh, okay People think that this means you were abducted. Yeah, right? It's it's connects into all this I have not shaken this because you know me, you know, I'm a skeptic I cannot explain at least these two instances one. I'll make it quick one It was when I was working at bogies that first job I had I typically started at like 3 p.m. Because I could work like two hours a day So it was like or five, you know like work the dinner rush My mom would leave me Some money every day. I would rent a video game I would wake up the next day decide do I want to keep this game for with tomorrow's money? Or do I want to go and get another one? I was playing some king Arthur game Camelot game for PlayStation 2 that was sick and I woke up And I woke up I remember it being kind of late probably around noon like late in the day for like a kid to be waking up But my mom had already been at work and I went and sat in front of the PlayStation And I like looked down at the controller and I looked up and I looked at the clock and it was 5 15 And it's just not possible I don't know. I don't think I would have slept that long. I was 14 I got to work. I got in trouble for being late on the way to work I found a little bird that had been like caught in a bunch of fishing line It was hanging in a tree and I used my house keys to like free it Because I had to walk to work and I just heard this like chirping. He didn't believe that it was true I had little scratches all over my hands. Um, I don't know what happened I truly lost that time that happened you two more time once with was with harm's way, right once no, uh Maybe but the other really notable time was a second period mrs. Pierce the legend earth and space class junior year I would go into her class She knew home life wasn't great. I would go into her class put my head down sleep the whole period She never bothered me. She was the fucking Lifesaver because second period third period. That's when you would get tired. You know what I mean everything kind of And the way my thing would go is I would go into class That class and then I would go see my girlfriend at the time who had my book for the next class I would keep it in a locker because mine was on the other side of school What would happen was I'd have my head down the bell would ring I would immediately get up and just like I Had the back most by the door desk so I'd be gone That happened Go to my girlfriend's locker. She doesn't show Yeah, what the fuck I go to my next class mr. Roth's class and he goes. Oh, you're early looters I look at the clock. It's time for second period I go to second period and I go and sit down at the desk and mrs. Pierce is like hey, bo I put my head down the whole thing repeats only the next time my girlfriend was there Truly those two things I know that's like nightmare. I'm sure I know it's not necessarily what the question meant But this is too this is in a boiler room while you're asleep. No, dude I also remember a dream when I was a little boy For young first apartment. I can remember living in where I popped out of the wall And I woke up sitting up on my bed. I was in a tunnel system. Hmm kind of like sonic just like Flew out of the wall very scary What have you not shaken colin Someone very close to me stole something from me really. Yeah, and uh, how old are you? Old enough to to to know about it and be hurt by it What do they take I'd rather not say you know, I'd rather just they know who they are and What it how it fell, you know, and uh, did you confront them about it? Yeah. Yeah, yeah, and it's you get it back Not really. Okay It's complicated sure and I it's just like now. I'm I'm good. Yeah for show You called it. We were coming up to it Were you in a band before being in a band with taylor? Was that your first yeah? I had I had a solo project That was called death valley driver That's fucking awesome. Isn't that awesome? It's ambitious. We had one song We yeah, I know it became I wrote the song but then this kid Brent who Uh was in These two my first two bands kind of coincided at the same time. Okay death valley driver was the first song I ever wrote The song was called death valley driver. I can see the logo. It was sick DVD. Yeah, it was sick. It's awesome There was the one song it was called death valley driver was eponymous Buried in silence was my other kind of first band metalcore vibes. I didn't I didn't really like metalcore. I loved I loved crematorium because I said it was in crematorium So, you know why metalcore is always like one of the first things? Because hey, it was obviously popular at the time. It's easy to write. Yeah. No, I didn't write it. I was the singer Yeah, ah, so I was just stealing lyrics from people and I would I would uh Do no it I was kind of I was very early uh kind of torture vibes where I was just making sounds and knew what I wanted to interpret people Those were my first Two bands that buried in silence was the first show I ever played You know, yeah, where it was like, oh, I'm the singer for a band. I'm playing a show and people are watching Just because they're here and that's something to do That was very cool. The band that I look at as my first real band is ruckus. Yeah Taylor and I doing rucka. Taylor ruckus is when Taylor accepts me As like a pier, you know Wow, because he was in fight everyone at the time which I loved And I would join fight everyone as like auxila remember Uh, just like the kid who could He was available, you know Nobody particularly wanted me in the bullpen. I wasn't particularly good ruckus is where taylor's like Not only am I starting this band to start it with you But like what do you let's write this stuff? He wrote the first demo. There's we did like five demos If you have any of these I would love to hear them again because they're fucking sick. They're they're not on youtube. They're not on youtube. There's there's all the stuff pre LP and the pre the split does not exist and it's It holds up like i'm telling you it's fucking straight up sick and like a lot of that stuff taylor was writing. It sounds like marauder i'm 15 yeah, you know, yeah, I know who I am very early. Yeah Uh, and and it's because taylor's told me who I am very early and i'm still playing with action figures um ruckus was so special to me and Uh, it felt so real where I was doodling In my class. I would be making flyers dude. Yeah, I would do the ruckus earth crisis 25 to life. Oh you were shouting around you were fantasy booking. Yeah, I was fantasy booking europe tour 2008 you know wow Just like all I ever wanted was like I was like ruckus is my job russet ruckus is gonna be my job Um, even if it makes no money, i'm gonna it's my passion. It's it's gonna be the last band I ever do it's a great band Right, it was sick. It's a great band. It was sick. The band was awesome. I'm still The LP is not great and LP was much like five to the other event. I'm supposed to be pre-production Taylor fucked me man. Taylor, you know she did I was doing the same fill in every song because I was like I'll do it. Yeah But like the but by the time the LP came out twitching times was in full swing But anyway first band to me My first real band is ruckus. What about you a similar thing before double cross, which was mining christ's first band Which were like we we pressed a seven inch We put out music We weren't a cover band, you know, that's the first one But Before that the band was called kick me brutal and it was all covers and it was mostly blink some 41 lit I was robbed of this experience Yeah, like the young cover thing and like Chris didn't want to do it, but chris did play with kick me at a water park It's awesome. We got booked at a water park where there was like the beach entrance, right where it's like gradual We played on the beach and people were in the water watching us in the middle of summer And I was singing and playing guitar dude. That's awesome for all the songs and it was this other guy al The guy who bought bitcoin al the one that said you're that you said broke your arm when you lied collarbone. Yes Same guy same guy Yeah, he also had bitcoin really early on and like bought pizzas with it whole big coins. How's he doing now? He's doing he's fine. He's he's very smart guy. He kept one or two I don't know but he he PhD kind of guy um So that that happened and chris kind of reluctantly did it because I think he knew he was like We'll get we'll get another guy to play bass and then we'll be like an actual thing and that did happen We made demos and flyers and class and all that thing So double cross for the first thing the first hardcore show that double cross played was at the blooming dale park district A thing i've talked about a lot where it was like sidewalk plan of attack too sweet Double crossed and another band or two Who all of those bands had like Drew from nachos caution from nachos andy from bric-top and nacho the whole scene dude is in this james was there like Every one I would eventually meet were there. It was a very it was a pivotal day early 2003 today. I got my license Fuck yeah, dude When did you first feel like yourself and when did you feel the least like yourself? Boy when did I first feel like myself? You know That's a complicated one. It is um I truly did not feel like myself until very recently Um, probably when I when I took a hold of my health. Yeah and took a hold of of The things that I had problem with about my body image and took responsibility for that and then like decided to do something about it That was that helped that was the last piece. Yeah, I had figured out my style if you want to call it that I wore this I wore the same thing every fucking day Um Hair was you know, that's a big thing never ending never ending battle. Um never happy. Yeah I certainly did not I mean I was the kid in school who would like write like Fuck god. Yeah on my jeans and then like cover up the fuck But like make it obvious enough for you to see it, you know Did you ever wear like like did you have the first fucking blood hoodie? No Oh, man, I wore the shit out of that and then my teachers were coming tape it up That's crazy. I wore the ringworm shirt that there is no god. I wore that in my yearbook That's awesome If anybody has the Birmingham high school 2009 uh yearbook I don't know where mine is and there's I'm wearing I'm wearing this shirt somewhere I'm wearing sick ass shirts in there. So let me know damn Um, but yeah, my whole childhood I had I was I was very aimless. I didn't really have an identity I didn't I didn't know about What I wanted to do or be you know what I mean? um So I I think pretty much my like until I was in my late 20s. I did not know what I Who I was and that's fine It is fine and it's good and part of that is not is growing out of caring. Yeah, I don't care anymore. I'm gonna Wear what I think looks good and what I think compliments me and what's comfortable, you know, 100? Yeah I never wore girl pants And that was very in vogue at a time where I could have you know what I mean? And I mean girl pants by like literal pants made for yeah, that's not derogatory A lot of our peers were buying Pants from the girl section because that was the swag that was the swag and then the men's 18 visions really changed Shit the men's pants just didn't come in that fashion and then tui rechanged it. Thank you. Thank you. Why what about you? First time I felt like myself was probably the first show With barred in silence. Oh Damn. Yeah, I mean that didn't stay. Yeah Like I said, I say it all the time. I've been me the whole time. You know, yeah, I've been I've been this guy For a long time. Okay, whether people understand that guy Yeah, or or that or I feel like being personable that day that changes but like I've been me Taylor can attest I've been me the whole time But that first show was very much like oh I get it now. When did you not feel like yourself? There was a field trip one time Where my whole class went to see tuck everlasting Is that there's a there's a book that became a movie It's about this like guy who's young forever because he drinks from this well or some shit I don't really remember see me. You ever see that it's doc shit. Alexis blood L is in it and she was incredible Rory from gilmore girls come on legend So I went on this this kind of after school field trip. This is the first time anybody from school had ever seen me after school So I was like, I got it. I got to be different. I got crazy. Yeah, so I borrowed about I borrowed uh Two wallet two chain wallets to two chains just extra safe Yeah way before two chains the guy I had two And my brothers like had all these like weird goth friends and juggalo friends who had all this weird shit And I was like guys. I need stuff. I'm going to move you my whole yeah So I had this like pulley system around my belt And it was very much just like And I was acting different I was like cursing out loud just so people would notice me And and I dropped The belt like exploded at one point And the police there too, I don't know what they are there. I don't they were just like here put these on it'll be sick But the belt like exploded and the pulleys like spilled everywhere during the movie during the movies Uh, and I remember just thinking like I don't even want these things Like why do I have these? Uh, and I and I remember the look on my teacher's face as she saw me like cursing and acting like a different person Whoa That was like She looks disappointed. I mean, whoa, I think I need to be myself Damn, and I never really acted like that again. You were like data from the goonies pretty much. Yeah I was had all these gadgets and dropped them all and like one of my Biggest pet peeves like a nearly a phobia is dropping things in public picking them I really like dropping keys or my phone in public and having to pick it up Humiliating to me So having to pick up all these pulleys from around the hearts. I don't even know what they are Yeah, and they're all over the theater and I'm going around picking them up after It was humiliating. I don't I don't that was just that's a stupid memory that sticks with me because I was like, oh, this isn't me Yeah, yeah, what do we got now? We got uh, did you feel this is a great question? And I think it's going to lead to the same answer for both. Yeah, probably did you feel like you belonged anywhere growing up? Well, so as to not be redundant. I will I will choose a different path. Um Mom Like I said didn't like to drive worked downtown would take the train so she'd get home Around 7 p.m. Every night and she'd be gone before the sun was up every day. So I mom was gone for during the week Once high school happened and I made like the new high school friends There are these two twins or a pair of twins the becks matt and kevin My sweet beloved becks these guys I talked to maybe once a year Got food with matt not too long ago, but they're just like my guys They're your normal guys. They're my normal guys But they they went into shows and and kevin There's a video of the killer playing Slave new world from nights at columbus that kind of went around matt is is right next to me So he they went to shows and they were like they were into stuff. Um I would go to their house every single day after school. I knew the garage code Mrs. Beck bless her heart would like feed me because she knew I would go home and make really bad scramble dicks, you know, I mean like She was so awesome And they were so awesome. Mr. Beck was a pretty stern guy, but very nice. They're welcoming, you know And and the two brothers I just like adored still do And they were they were just my my guys who I they were the first on the list I would call them Like hey, you want to hang out and matt would be like no, dude I'm just playing more comfortable like up here right there because I know the garage code I'm coming in and you want to watch and play work I literally like analog twitch would sit on his bed. It's just like whoa, you know Um, w I feel I felt and I felt like I belong there. I felt very welcome. They had a basement with a we in it Yeah, it was the best Okay, when did you feel like you want? Um, I think I think uh the the cobalt cafe as a place I was very much a product of my environment for better or worse, you know A lot of older bad guys who I hung out with that made me want to do bad stuff Yes A lot of really good people who were awesome right away and were really good influences on me But but that's where I met pretty much Anybody I'm still friends with today Hmm Like that from here, you know, although Nate Brody King. Yeah fucking Myra legend It's and twice as hard. I've seen them a thousand times. Nobody knows who they fucking are But that I've seen that band more than any other band Caesar everybody from everybody from the valley. Yeah congregated here And then that would lead to like posting on strange notes, which was the california bridge nine board That would lead to being on the bridge nine board and getting people were mad at me all the time I wonder if I like read your posts. You probably did. Probably did, you know, probably did But you know what my screen name was boax I see yeah mine was conan at first That was my one of my early nicknames Really conan and that came from my friend josh guns. I'm not even gonna lie to you I remember a b9 conan. Yeah, that was where my account was made in 2006 or 7 And then I changed it to soaks and torment well Yeah, pretty so and then taylor and I there was just one day on the b9 board where taylor and I Changed our profile pictures to the same picture of peter steel, but mine was reversed So it would be like us talking to each other But his was facing this way and mine was facing the other way So that probably jogs and somebody was like, oh my god, it's that fucking guys. Yeah, I had a lot of posts But I would say the cobalt cafe was where It was like, oh, this is my this is my community. Yeah, this is my place That for sure happened with me at at venues and stuff But it it is nice that I think we both had very welcoming experiences as young men getting into oh, dude And that's why like I say like that's why we are the dude and and I was told this is a lot But riley from sound fury Was the mod of strange notes And they were they people on this board wanted me dead For asking for a download link of the violation record And riley's like, why are we banning this kid that just wants to find hardcore? He doesn't have a record player How would how what is he gonna do with the violation possessed seven inch? You know, let's let him listen to it uh, so riley Riley and then everybody was like damn. He's right. He's right. Yeah And like all my peers all the kids like one or two years old and they wanted me to fucking kill myself But yeah, when do anger sadness or anxiety show up for you? You know anxiety is a recent thing and I've realized So I cannot be late I cannot be late I have to be the one who is early. I cannot um Have people Inconvenienced by me when when in the early days of us. Oh my god when I would fuck up how much worse did this show make that feeling? Oh, dude, I like I can't even tell you like even even over the weekend. We had an audio issue. It kept me up last night. Um I have I have Insane FOMO You really do I have crazy FOMO, which I think stems from being an only child. Yeah and having to find the mo Make sure I had no mo. Yeah um so that That stems into everything that drives any kind of uh negative Emotion I might feel sadness I'm a pretty happy guy more more. Yeah, I mostly I went through some I I I have been very sad for prolonged periods of time But especially now I'm a very happy person. I'm very pleased with everything um and anger I'm not that angry I'm really not that angry and I've never been and that is something that I talked to dr. Hilary with every other Hey, dr. Hilary. See you soon girl Uh, but yeah, that that is something, you know that And all of that stems from Fuck I fucked this up and now I'm not gonna be on the show anymore and I'm gonna miss out on it But you know what I mean? Yeah, it all stems from FOMO. It really that's where it all comes from the fear of even FOMO itself Yeah, FOMO FOMO is very real You know what we really want is aOMO absence of missing out. Yeah, I want him. I want to In yeah Whatever the opposite of missing out is I Yeah, yeah, there's one I What about you? Oh, you're a pretty angry guy. Do you think so? I don't think anger as uh, you're not walking around angry. No, but when something pisses you off I think anger started for me in 2018 Oddly I was never really an angry spiteful person until then anger really started for me in general when when uh Twishing tongues really took off. I think you know the first real hit. Yeah, because like It was it was pretty widely accepted at first And then it wasn't and then it was then then they were very vocal about it. And then it was like I really sawed it out. I really just wanted to read it all. Oh It was brutal. I read everything, you know, well, that's something not to interrupt But I don't read comments or anything. It's all because that's the exact when I see the one out of 100 That's bad. It ruins my whole thing. Yeah 100. Yeah continue. Oh, I'm with you. Um Sadness is maybe my definitive emotion. Really? Yeah, I don't know why It started very young and that's what like I think that's what drew me to like typo Typo is my favorite band because of that because of sad. Yeah, because it was like it was like this I don't know how or why I could relate to it. But uh All all the kill myself songs in the world those are those are my favorite songs And it's like, all right, this person feels this way. They didn't do it I don't have to do it. I can write about it. Yeah, and then I don't have to do it. Yeah, um anxiety Hard lore gives me more anxiety than anything. Yeah, I was not an anxious person until hard lore really and I think I think uh Every time we do this, it's The half of me is like this is just a thing that's going out to my friends and Yeah, nobody's gonna hear. Oh, yeah, I think that every week and then I go back and an episode will have 200 000 plays And I'll be like, what the fuck? Yeah. Yeah It's escaped containment So there's that when I don't think about that when I think of it as like this is a thing for my friends I don't freak out when it's a bigger thing and like It's gonna reach a new kind of person It becomes this performance and performances can be bad. Yeah, and you're not and if this is our job Yeah, not every day at the office is gonna go well. Great and that happens Uh, and I don't accept that when it does and if it doesn't it's like That was my fault. I let that happen. So if an episode is bad or I feel like an episode is bad in the moment I'm really beating myself up or if I forget to ask something and Uh, it's I really freak out about the general Structure of how this show goes and like especially if it's a bigger episode a bigger guess like the last Yeah, seven weeks of the show have been I spent those seven weeks really freaking out the first time I saw that was the The Manchester kind of impromptu live thing. I had nothing. I had nothing. Yeah, and that really bothered me. I really loved it Hated it interesting and I was very emotional. I also hadn't slept all week. Oh, that was I hadn't slept in a week I was very it was dawning on me in in real time that like This dumb little thing we did had a sold-out show in Manchester, UK before we did anything live in America You know, yeah, that really touched me and I couldn't function properly But I would say sadness informs my day-to-day existence not that anything in my life is sad I think it's chemical. Yeah, you know, my wife is the funniest Most incredible person to ever walk the earth in my opinion. She really is she's so fucking funny When she gets home tonight, I'm surely gonna laugh because that's what we do. Yeah, uh, how beautiful is that? We giggle, you know Yeah, one time I asked her She was going to hang out with her friends one day and I asked what are you looking forward to like what are you guys gonna do? She's like, um giggling and that is her. Yeah, you know, and that's every day But yeah, I think sadness informs I would say I would go sadness anxiety anger You know, probably just switch the one for me. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, that makes sense Yeah, I think but I would say a high school. I became a sad guy and then I think I became angry around the the the true the true revelation of the preacher man story developing I was kept from and I wouldn't find out the truth about till very late. This is well documented I've talked to Taylor Taylor knew Aaron knew Yeah, uh, but it was broken down to me by my dad as as he's in a hospital bed and as long as collapsing And I'm thinking something horrible is happening to it's in a way. That's like, hey, you don't know this And this scared me so you should know this And that was when it was like fuck Like my life is a lie kind of type thing. Yeah, but yeah Uh, when did you realize you wanted something different from the life? That was presented and in front of you maybe normal Normal life I think there's a few instances of that, you know In high school everybody around you is going to college And we're like no, I want to rock, you know, that's natural. Yeah Once you're rocking Not everything is rainbows and roses. Yeah, there's a little bit There's a time when when you're rocking where you go if this this doesn't work out I'm really looking forward to going home and getting a job getting on fucking nine to five You get that job and you go man. I'm really looking forward to changing that and going back on the road again and then And I think COVID Having a nine to five Work barely working on music but working on music nonetheless Coming out of COVID the gods hate record coming out us having these this these zoom calls that were so fun and realizing I really hate my job Uh, I really Love being creative and I love talking about music and I think bo and I Mm are on to something. Mm. That was the real I think that was the biggest aha moment of my whole life Wow was this thing developing. That's pretty huge with no expectations. Yeah, no, totally, but it was like damn we can If 800 people watch this we can make a little bit of money. Yeah, you know, yeah And uh, and here we are almost four years later. Yeah It was when I didn't get in any colleges I was open to college and I was I was almost like well my parents must know something I don't I'm obviously I must be able to get into uic University of Illinois at Chicago. So no state schools either Really? I had no extracurriculars. No accolades 2.2 gpa like truly you're a smart guy You know what what was the one class at a graden It was history and 20th century and like kind of social studies type stuff. Um I wanted to I was like I'll go to college if I can go away meet girls Meet new experiences, you know, like that sounds fun. Yeah, I wasn't thinking about it for the school I Because I also I wanted to be a history teacher. I wanted to be an actor. Yeah, I wanted to be a history teacher Actors seem pretty unlikely. Yeah at the time ironically History teacher Uh, there were so many hoops. She had to jump through. I didn't want to go to more schooling. Yeah, I didn't want to blah blah blah So that was the first like well, I don't I know I don't want to do that. Mm-hmm. And then it was fucking 15 years of grinding. Yeah of grifting Of living the most paycheck to paycheck I've ever been and hope to never return and then Yeah, the one the day I got laid off from the most recent IT job And I we had like hey, let's get serious. We had a conversation where I was like if we do this because we were We we were monetized in a sense and and I was working so it was like oh, I'm double dipping which was awesome And then it was like oh, I maybe I don't need to find something and we could just focus on this and like travel More and do the in-person stuff and that was a very like Holy shit if we work harder this Becomes more real and and like we could just do that and so yeah, I actually am right there with you That was a big that was the big that was the late life like oh, I can there's a third path There's something else. Yeah This next question is what were your first escapes? Do we like that one? I feel like we've talked about that a lot We haven't talked about one of them What were your first escapes? A little thing Called the nintendo 64. Oh, yeah I Talked about my dad's roommate rick. He had all the systems eventually rick moved out my 10th birthday my dad got me a nintendo 64 I had played sega and and super nintendo and nintendo and all that stuff, but those games weren't as immersive as ocarina of time and that was the first like I would log I would turn on ocarina of time to watch the sunrise That's beautiful to listen to the music and just like stand in zora village because I thought it was dope That's a great answer. You know what I mean? And that was the first sense and that that truly began my Because shortly thereafter a pc came along and I got into warcraft 3 diablo 2 And then before that a game called asher on's call which if anyone knows it was a microsoft game by turbine Unbelievable game looks like runescape, but it was a full mmo rpg and then of course eventually world of warcraft. Yeah, and I mean We're talking tens of thousands of hours. Yeah logged into these games I could never do the the monthly subscription games. I wasn't allowed I had an allowance and this absorbed it. Gotcha. So it was a war. It was a fine trade for me, but I understand um It's very similar answer. Yeah was my my gameboy coat my gameboy pocket Oh, was that's uh, that's what I got for christmas. Was that the color? It was don't I don't think it was color But it was a backlit back the pocket was backlit. That was the first like the second generation That was to me the first thing I ever owned the first thing that was mine. That wasn't a stuffed animal or something Pokemon red and blue first two games. I played I played them back to back same game, you know Just played them back smoked them both all day all night all the time Uh, and I I really attribute pokemon to like Why I didn't notice my parents getting a divorce from my mom leaving my dad for a priest Because it was like I don't give a fuck what is going on. You know, whatever I just found me too He's real Do you see and mu is apparently in this truck if I can move it? I see pixels Yeah, but if I can use strength on this truck in the beginning of the game mu is under there and I'm gonna find him never found him And that that would go to the n64 that would go to the the ps2 that and then dude video games are I I feel horrible for Our parents generations Are so fucking technologically inept with that you ever see if somebody who's like 60 hold a controller Dude, I it's pathetic. I fly all the time. I see people hold their cell phones. It's pathetic Sometimes we'll do this right you'll do this when you're but this is the default Oh, do you know what I'm talking about? That's like the default one hand. Okay Always watching watching a grown man hold a controller like a fucking loser as a kid was very like Damn, there's an amazing scene in Sopranos where tony comes home late and aj's playing mario kore tony sits down next to him and holds it Just with one hand by the joystick. Yeah, he's not even hitting the gas. It's crazy. It's pathetic. It's so good pathetic behavior So and and it's it's cool. It's cool with me now that it's not as much of a societal taboo You know, yeah, our evenings are spent logging on and and and immersing like I can't wait worse that we That escape That got us through so much of our lives. Yes is still so it's such a big part of our lives and what's great is we were adults We're adults and now we can find all of them and now everybody my age I hang out with them on there, you know I go to I go to eat with them and then we go home and hop on the game. It's beautiful Let's say what mistake from an earlier era taught you the most I think When recording disharmony, oh wow I knew That I was what I was giving vocally was a problem, you know, whoa where it was like I don't think this is right because it would sound I my voice never recovered the whole time, you know, and my instinct was This may I can't think I can do this. I don't think I'm doing this right and I I think I Should have listened to that instinct maybe listen to your instincts would be Hmm would be a mistake that not listening to my gut kind of always is A lot of the time my first instinct is very correct. Yeah. Yeah And I think I I think when I ignore it When I ignore it Things don't always go well understood It's one of the biggest cliches in the world, but the grass is always greener is probably the truest Euphemism or whatever that would be called 100 on earth. Yeah Whether it's jobs or status or bands or relationships or friendships or money or It always seems better until you're there. You were just talking about it with the job thing where it's like you're at your nine to five God, I can't wait to get in the van you're in the van. You're like, I cannot wait to have a dollar You're yeah, or you're loading in the rain and you're like, I can't wait to just be home. You know And I've learned Truly only in my 30s. It took a long time to just kind of enjoy And focus on what you're doing because that that other lawn or whatever doesn't it doesn't matter And if it's that important then go But realize what you're That's how we learn That's how we learn Who were you trying to impress or defy always trying to impress chris Always trying to impress my dad always trying to defy my dad I remember getting into political debates with my dad thinking I was a little communist when I was in middle school in early high school showing him the most aggressive Disgusting music I could find at the time which was probably ringworm. You know what I mean? It just to be like Yeah hear that dad and You know what I mean? Yeah, and yet the very first doublecross demo my dad recorded it. We did it at his house Because he's a recording engine. Yeah So it's like it's it's hand and if you liked it you'd been so psyched, you know Yeah, and he didn't it was awful. It was like a shitty youth group band, but It's kind of like what we were talking about with pinks the hot dogs there I don't know what the thing would be for my dad to be like wow. Yeah, it's out there Probably something to do with wriggly field If I throw out the first pitch he'll be psyched he'll be pumped You know, I mean I got close when we were able to park at the metro to the game once he really was impressed by that Um, but definitely definitely dad because he was a musician He he was in a band. He was in the stay tuned orchestra. He's the he is both answers. He's both answers for sure I I definitely I certainly want to impress chris. Yeah, and but chris is impressed But chris is impressed and chris is very supportive when I told chris we were doing davie havoc He was like that is fucking incredible You know and chris chris knows he knows that Um, but yeah, it's and and obviously I want to impress mom, but mom is mom is my biggest cheerleader in the world So she's impressed no matter what you know You trip over your shoes you're she's gonna be like wow you felt so good so graceful. Yeah That's fair. I'm like I mean the the easy answer is my brother. Yeah, but we just Eventually we started doing everything together You know, you know, you don't want to defy that. No, I don't I don't want to defy him I I think now I'm defying more than ever and it's like sometimes I'm right and it's like weird In terms of who do I want to impress Uh anybody who cares about anything I do. Yeah anybody who supports anything I do My dad my brother people that listen our music people that watch our show Every time we finish an episode and we get messages from friends or people they're like, yo, that was really good From friends means like a lot people that I grew up with taking time out of their lives to watch this is is the Best part Yeah, I would say that's probably constant just anybody who cares. I'm trying I want to I don't want to fail them again. Yeah It hurts. What did music or culture or art? Give you that regular life didn't it's kind of everything. Yeah, everything I have is from hardcore music all my relationships I met my wife because of it. We have this show because my job my job is because of it um There's a movie because of it creative outlets great. It's uh everything I've ever done Style and everything I own everything I like. Yeah is attributed to hardcore music in some way I give art the art that I have chosen that is hardcore music Is all I have and all and like all I want. Yeah Say same answer Excellent What was your first real job real job? Yeah, and what did it teach you? Um, so I'm gonna go real job. It's gonna be the first one that got me out of the house Like I made enough money to get out of the house, right? So I went bogeys That talked about several times this episode subway sandwich artists Park district where I was camp console, which I actually really loved that job While also simultaneously working at game stop, but I was making 10 bucks an hour. I was making crap sick, you know Game stop rocked. Actually I've sick in the mall dude. I loved it the dream. I just didn't I didn't get enough hours Yeah, um, I eventually worked at a call center At state madison, right and bright smack dab at the middle of downtown And I moved into the fireside house and lived in the basement And I was making I think I was making like 14 bucks an hour, which in 2008 was pretty good Was enough, you know if you have roommates 14 an hour in 2008. Yeah, I think that's like a healthy living Yeah, it was pretty good. Yeah, I was doing good and I was paying 100 bucks a month for rent Yeah, you were fine. I was in the basement. You could do whatever you want. I could do whatever I wanted. Yeah, and I did and um I I eventually got promoted and I was a Kind of a shift leader on the weekends I would be there. I would be I was willing because like didn't party or anything I don't care. I'll work on the weekends. Sometimes I have a show But they didn't care they were cool about it. It was some silly marketing thing that was like we want to be google So watch netflix at your desk if you want do whatever you want kind of a thing. Here's a hammock the company Yeah, very much very laze fair or whatever and I think uh I got fired because They thought I wasn't there. I was supposed to email at the end of every weekend to be like, hey, here's what happened and Everything was smooth, right? And for the first year I did that and then no one ever responded nor ever commented on it So I just kind of stopped and they thought I wasn't there because we logged our times We didn't clock in biometrically or anything. We just kind of put like I was here eight to whatever eight to four thirty And My boss pulled me in this guy bob. I really didn't like him, but he pulled me in he was like, hey man I'm gonna have to let you go. We need somebody who's gonna be here. I wish you all the best And I was like so shocked that I was like, okay You weren't like, what do you mean? Yeah, I didn't think about it until I was on the train where I was like, wait a minute I've been here every weekend. I had I truly did not that's crazy. Yeah, it was I was wrongfully terminated Wow from total attorneys. Let's get let's get back at them. They're bankrupt. Go excellent but Uh, that was my first real job where it was like you learned the the real value of money. I had insurance for a 1k For you man Really moving out nobody you I look at my first season on the show big brother As fascinating really crazy man. That that's a whole episode in itself. Just like What reality tv production is actually like the hierarchy kind of miserable horrible. Yeah, how horrible the all like the executives can be even the like Writing staff can be just fucking poo pooing all over you. I was there for years And most people never said a word to me It's kind of like assembling a pc where each component you're trying to get the most out of yeah, that's Everything is just designed to squeeze. Yeah, and we're I was bottom of the totem pole the whole time the whole time The whole time because so the show turned union the year before I got there which meant Every position you now have to Be in the union to do So if I was there a year prior They would have been like pick a thing And that's your job and you're in that union Whoa crazy crazy way that that operates But because of that you now have to work non union days in that role on something else a certain amount of times or be like Begged for to do this job after everybody else who's waiting says no brutal shit, but like once you're in You have benefits forever In the union pension. Yeah, it's unbelievable. Yeah, and I left early to go on tour after I promised him I wouldn't The next season and and so I spent that whole season being like all right. I'm good at this My direct my superiors Danny and Dave bowman really like me and I love them um I could I bet I could move up But I do have to leave on this tour. This was the kings of war tour torching thongs coat orange big tour I'd had other jobs before okay. I had plenty of other jobs, but to me. This was a career that I that I Purposely sacrificed multiple times I left this career where by the tour towards the end of the season they're like, what do you want to do next year? You know, wow like where do you see yourself? And I'm like, I don't know maybe story department or something technical upstairs. Yeah, because my dad Filled in for a guy named Dave something Sweet guy you work together. No, no not when I was together the right when I left my dad Started working there. So it was like a void a young family void was was filled my brother Aaron did uh tape operator stuff in Analogging I think my aunt flow who I love I have an aunt flow if you can believe that how about that How often you see her not very often I love her to death my aunt Annie Not like once a month lover to death. No not once a month much less than many of you My outflow one of the like a key part of Taylor and I is growing up just because it was like I think she dated somebody in coc She was just so fucking cool And and she was around a lot and it was like, you know, you're dope like and it was the the opposite of our mom's side of the family You know where my dad is all these southerners, but his his dad the military surgeon was like liberal guy somehow Oh weird hit my aunt flow from living all Liberal gal somehow my aunt Annie has uh Kids one of her kids my my cousin ren I believe their name is now non-binary Super accepting of that So I have these these beautiful family members All my dad gets them all tries to help them all get jobs flow does tape logging stuff Aaron is the tape operator and he's a complete disaster to the point where I'm wearing a crumb suckers shirt one day and this guy mark rodin on my in my first season of big brother It was like crumb suckers. What the fuck dude. Who are you? Yeah? I'm like my name's calling him from Connecticut and he's like i'm from Connecticut And I was like, whoa, this guy's awesome And then we get to talking over the next month and he figures out that Aaron's my brother and he's like that's your brother Was his real raw reaction. I was like, I know Uh He's fine. He's dead fine now his niece omelie my only my sorry his daughter omelie my only niece. Yeah Beloved, okay. I would kill and die for her and her and my basically Other niece noe noel Suzuki. I love you so much. Love you both so much. I could cry right now um Big brother you sacrificed. Yeah. Yeah every season it would be like what do you what do you see yourself here? Yeah, but I have this six week tour with coat orange or but I have the dish harmonic rest tour uh Maybe shouldn't I left for that one That one it was so bad that That the next year was like, I'm gonna take this job and that was the first time I remember that was my first season of big brother where god's hate went on tour with nails in full of hell and I didn't go I remember they stayed they used our van. It was the only time I've ever been filled in for who filled it for you That was kyle because I played guitar. I'm playing guitar. Kyle playing guitar. That's right. And then just stayed in the band Uh, so that was the only that that was me being like Yo people hate this harmony And I think I'm gonna kind of quit music. I remember that I'm gonna get this job I remember that being like a cheer about collin kind of a thing. Damn. I remember that being like a thing Yeah, I was broken uh And I and I had this opportunity to get this job once again. I was fine with that started a new relationship and it was like All right, I guess this is me now. You know if I stick at this long enough I can maybe make like 75 grand a year one day uh, and then uh, I think The next oh, I left for Damn, there was a big brother working on the show I have a lot of stories. That's a whole other podcast. So I think my nd. It my nda is up pretty soon. Oh, you signed an nda Oh multiple But I think it's been seven years. Wow Since I worked on the show it's seven years Yeah Yeah, so hit me up When did adulthood hit you the hardest? I have a framed receipt from chase chase bank in my living room I've had it for 15 years now almost to the day actually We got back from a european tour Skyrim had come out. Oh man. I got home 2011 Got 15 years ago. Yeah got home got skyrim. It was with dead end path and brutality will prevail Got skyrim Had No money, right and was just like well, I don't need money. I got my xbox 360. I'm playing skyrim. It's snowy in chicago I'm I'm set, you know, and that was a really I was happy in that I was happy in that moment And then I got a God it may have been a physical letter back at that time That I was overdrawn on my checking account, which would happen to me all the time If by the end of the next business day after you got the letter You deposited money and went back into the black. It was not you wouldn't get charged 35 bucks, right? And 35 bucks Would ruin ruin me. Yeah So I was like I got I got the thing and it said you are It's either 54 cents or 46 cents overdrawn Okay And I'm like, well Just got a deposit of dollar I could do that I scrounged my apartment. I'm looking under the couch in between under the fridge in in Going to the laundromat next door and checking the lint traps. Wow. I'm going ever. I'm doing everything I can I found a physical one dollar bill. Don't remember where it was or like why I just found it out But I found a dollar bill I walked to the chase at a positive of the dollar and the recert the receipt said available balance, you know 56 cents or whatever the inverse was And that was the moment where I was like I got to do something. Yeah, like this is This is the most pathetic anybody this is pathetic I think I was on unemployment at the time from the job I got fired from and I was just like, you know I was making like 350 bucks every two weeks And I think my rent was 350 bucks a month. So I was surviving on 350 dollars for food and And I just remember thinking like I can't This is no good, you know I would eventually then get the h&m or the I'm sorry the whole foods job the fish monger job That I would leave for an australian tour where we also made no money And then started at h&m, which was like the beginning of like I'm living So it was the first moment of like h&m bow. Oh, yeah That was the first that was the time where I was pretending to be someone I wasn't for sure because I wanted to be corporate guy Because again, I thought like well, this is what I obviously nothing else is gonna happen Yeah, I remember being like, yo, bow's pretty high up at h&m. Yeah, and I was but it wasn't Um, but yeah, I just remember feeling this immediately like Like oh, shit. Hey, you're happy and you're having fun, but you're a fucking loser. I felt that way I'm not calling you a loser. Did you go home and play skyrim? Of course. So you forgot about it. No, no, no, I framed it Oh, right. I can't I have but you were like, all right, but I'm still gonna do I'm still good Yeah, it's not like I could go and get a job right now, but it was very much I like I gotta do something Unemployment's no good. That's a big moment. It was it was a big moment and and I'm not gonna lie to you guys until covid Well h&m I was doing pretty good and then I quit that to go on warp tour and then until covid When I started doing it stuff It was tough. It was scroungy man my dad must have been a Like a pig like a literal physical piggy bank the way that I would just find change in places, you know We'll be like if I can just get 35 cents. I can get a I can do that thing Yeah, yeah, and I would be like I'll check the cushion and be like lo and behold 35 cents. What about you adult? Uh Pandemic one bedroom in a new marriage. Yeah Yeah brutal You know, yeah, oh, yeah most relationships did not survive that. Yeah and ours did and and that to me is like We've that feels like we've married for 30 years, you know that year Just was insane codified and we've made it work Dude and like we hear people talk about like me, you know people be like happy anniversary of my to my wife Marriage is so hard and we hate each other and it's so hard and we'd always be like this is gross And and we definitely do not hate each other. But yeah marriages it is hard and that's why the whole Death to us part sickness health thing exists is like It's gonna suck sometimes or somebody you know, you're gotta be down and they're gonna need to pick you up They're gonna be down. You're gonna need to pick them up and I think uh covid A lot of people didn't get back up. Mm-hmm For sure, uh, and that was to me that was like okay, I'm I need to figure some shit out and Her being like, you know, you need to figure some shit out Is what made me reach out to jay Weinberg Who reached out to chris Hudson? to green light this show So thank you jay I will never forget What did failure look like to you before people knew who Colin Young was in any sense? Like what did that I guess what did that what did failure mean? What did it feel like? Um I think I think giving up on the whole like theater thing was like a kind of a big blow for me really. Yeah, it was like Man, man, this woman has stolen this thing that I that I like That I think has been like my one dream and identity so far like I I grew up so this is interesting I've told this before but in fourth grade I went by the name bill Because I loved bill murray. It was a new school. You know your first name is williams. I'm even first name is william So I was like i'm bill now And it was just because I had I I loved movies before I loved music, you know that was like same movies before video games Before I cared really cared about pokemon. I was watching home alone every day same so uh, I think losing that Was uh, was tough that was like that felt like a failure. Did you email her or anything? Be like, hey check out this movie No, I should yeah, yeah With a with like a scan of my middle finger on a xerox. I should I should yeah, you really I think that would feel good I think she'd be proud though and she'd think she was like wow. I told you what she had Yeah, yeah, she'd she'd think she was part of that in some way in reality. She delayed so many things but Who knew if I would have pursued pursued music in the same way Had she not robbed me you were you're much more like it's not like there's Subcultural acting and movies necessarily like there's indies and smaller movies obviously, but like you're much more likely to Find success In the thing that you had very early and immediate connections to yeah, I was super young Hollywood super young. I lived here Yeah, uh, I was pretty good. I was doing at a professional level when I was when I was 11, you know Yeah, but You know that that felt like that was failure and then obviously disharmony. I don't need to say anything else about that That was the biggest failure of my whole life failure for me before I was From any band or anything that someone would know would be making moms at for sure I vividly remember When we were living at the house in roselle where she's I know she's paycheck to paycheck. I know she's scrounging Um, we moved to that neighborhood because the high school was really good But we were the house with the weeded lawn and the windows that were kind of broken and you know I was in the backyard fucking around with a friend of mine I had a red rider BB gun just like the movie and I was on our patio concrete. I was shooting at his feet Oh, just to like and he was loud. It was my friend Andrew. We were loud. We were both laughing I've been shot by the beat. It doesn't break skin. You know what I mean? Little shade it ricocheted broke the back patio door. Oh sliding glass door And but it did the spider web thing tempered Yes, and yeah, laminate epic and she walked up to like check what the noise was and saw me through it with Just you know and she just immediately started crying. She wasn't mad. She was just like Well, how am I supposed to let the dog out? Oh, she immediately put it into a sense of like Think about what this what you just did. Yeah, not the cost or the inconvenience, but just like You're making stuff harder for me. Hmm. And that felt so bad It's not. Yeah, I had a lot of those it felt yeah. Yeah, as did I Yeah, those those happen broke lots of windows and drywall and stuff before that But that was that's one that stands out where she just like immediately started crying Maybe she was behind on bills or something as it was. You know what I mean? And it was just like Oh, yeah That that sucked failing her failing Failing my mom. Yeah that that sucked What part of adulthood do you still feel unprepared for? The child rearing. Yeah, I shan't be having a child. I may adopt if I'm You know rich some point if I'm rich. We were just talking about this last night. You need to be rich to have a fucking kid I just I don't I don't feel comfortable nor do I Have the desire to I think I'm too selfish with my time 1000% too selfish with my time and it's not even too distracted. It's not even selfish in like a derogatory sense Oh, it's like it's like I love my time. Yeah, I love being able to come here on a whim or Being able to travel or like do whatever with a friend or my girlfriend or whatever like I like just to be able to get up and go and and When you do that and you see the people At universal with the full family or you see the people on the plane who are trying to fucking miserable But but they're also like Other outside of those moments. They're so much more fulfilled in that way than we are will ever be, you know If you're happy if you're happy doing that, obviously, exactly I'm very happy you're happy being a parent and I hope you're doing a great job. It's just not For me it's tough. Yeah, and ain't me babe. I think that's a great answer mine would probably be death You're afraid of death My parents are alive, you know, yeah I have reoccurring nightmares About them dying and me like Regretting not saying all these things about them. And I know you're never prepared for that. Yeah, but I would say I'm really unprepared for it And you know my mom's health very healthy. My dad is shockingly healthy for being a smoker all his life But I really wanted him to knock it off He's not on that that vape shit or anything. No, he's not dude. He's fucking analog dude. Just but he's he's packed He's pipe guy Which is I mean our grandfather was a pipe guy. He died last year, you know But his my dad's lung collapsed, you know, yeah, Jesus. They're not supposed to do that. No, they're supposed to supposed to be there I would say I'm really I'm really not prepared for that and that will That will destroy me I think as well as my brother. I know that too. Oh Yeah That's a crazy thought. Uh that can't happen. I've not even thought about like my friends. Yeah, I can't I really and when it happens it's like You never stop thinking about it. Yeah, dude when my brother I I he has to outlive me, you know I don't what am I gonna do? Well, I'll I'll never make music again. We have a friend named Dave Who was if you look at any early 2000s pictures of Chicago stuff. He daves in all these pictures he was um Pretty emotionally unstable guy got into it. It was james birthday We're all at this restaurant. We liked it. Actually we took the promo pics for imprisoned the first harm's way seven inch um Where we're all in the back shirtless and james weight rack while we're taking that jame or dave had gotten to an argument with his family All thing happened He drove off in a car and killed him shot himself while he was driving christ just on the highway and that was my first like It wasn't somebody's grandparent or a grandparent of mine or anything. It was like or even like a loose acquaintance It was your friend. It was my friend. Yeah, who I like I went I stayed at his house And and we played poker at his basement all the time me and james were there all the time And that was the first thrill like oh my friends are gonna die That's just gonna happen. This feeling is is gonna happen. Yeah, it was very very very tragic, but it was also very um We were talking about this or is like well, I can't do that can't do that I can't won't do that. I cannot you know how the way I am about being late. Yeah can't make people sad no, totally, you know and like uh, so many people in my wife's life have died young Like tragically that I have to see her go through it over and over again and like you know, I lost kale. That was huge Yeah, um, yeah That and you're never prepared and and I just wonder like And this has nothing to do with anybody we've talked about How many people that we know Or that our friends now have to die For people to stop fucking around with drugs, you know How do you see your friend die from a substance? And and ever even look at it again Yeah, and that's something we'll we'll never understand that obviously we'll never understand dependency in that way because we've never dealt with that Yeah, and that's a privilege. Yeah, we're privileged to think that way But man, I and I I'm glad to not understand How anybody can live that way and I really Hope that losing your friends Can't like our loved ones or something the the one positive impact it should have on you is to Not do that thing or subject your friends and community to that thing anymore crazy When uh, did you first feel competent at something? That's a good question. That's a great question. Um Truly competent in the sense where I didn't need to um Oh, you know, you know, it's so funny When I was a kid I I could set up The tv vcr cameo box video game input one input two I I could just do it. It made sense to me Still does it ties into building pcs. It ties into pedal boards It also weirdly ties into plumbing if you think about plumbing in a signal chain with a guitar It's the same concept. It's kind of wild and it's different from electricity Like electrician work. Yeah, it's very different um But I used to do that and I remember I actually remember at the roselle house My mom got a new cable system or whatever and the guy came I had set it up already because we'd gotten the box And they sent the guy out to set it up and then to turn it on And he came over said who did this someone come out already and she went my son did it And I was just like kind of something there like you know Probably 10 that's awesome. And and it was I remember feeling like oh, I can do that. I'm good at that. It's a good job. Yeah, yeah yeah, uh, I'd say mine would be After what witnessing my brother the musician flourishing and thriving for years and wanting to be in bands with him Finally being accepted into being one of those bands And the first song I presented to him Of like I have an idea for a song It goes like this and like this and like this. Yeah, and he went Sounds good. Let's try it and we recorded it as is And it existed. It's called apocalypse never It's a ruckus song. It's my favorite ruckus song because of that that to me is the first Full complete idea I ever had. Yeah Uh, and I to this day gives me chills. Yeah. Yeah, that's my uh, That's my bad religion seven inch to me. You know, that's my uh Whatever, yeah That that presenting that to him him liking it and it being awesome To this day that was the first time it was like I can fucking do this Did you ever feel guilty choosing this path meaning hard lore? There's layers to this question. There we are because on the surface it seems like well, no but Guilty about doing what we do here every week. Um I Wouldn't call it guilt. I have felt guilty about Maybe exposing too much. Mm lifting up the curtain a little bit. It's a lot of inside baseball a lot of inside baseball. Um, people will often Present that to us and offer it to us when we're talking to them, but that doesn't make it A certain aspect of knowing about straight ahead. Yeah, not everything needs to be documented You know that is that is certain. So there's a little bit. I have a little bit of that There's a little bit of the fast food thing We don't eat that much fast. No, no, no, no, we certainly eat fast food But it's mostly because of tour we don't like corporations. We're nearly it's a means of survival You know and and you know that's part of it. I have a little bit of that corporate punk guilt. Yeah, dude We didn't talk about that uh with randy last night or randy the other week, but he was In his book he mentioned having punk guilt about being like a well-loved guy and being a well-known guy and Corporate corporate corporate is like a real thing But he's charitable whenever we can be we're not at the point of our life where we can afford to be charitable Not yet. You know, yep. Once we are. Yeah, you bet your ass, dude. Yeah, that's what I'm gonna have the tiniest dog Sanctuary you've ever fucking seen I'm gonna save every small dog Even this cat this but our beloved amily who has the same name as my niece She's a rascal. She's a real and yet if she died I would weep, you know, she's a sweetheart. She's winked at you She loves you. You see that she's my girl. Um, yeah I I think I think that guilt will subside if we can ever afford to do anything about it which we intend to Yeah, but yeah, I so I do have Little bits of that and there is also just something just a PSA about I feel guilty about not putting over Totally unheard bands and their new demos on the show. Yeah The reason we don't do that Is because you're putting us in a position where we either have to lie and say we like something because we don't want to affect We don't want to torpedo anything or be We're honest And we either do really like it which is great. And if we find something and when we when that happens We're we can't wait to talk about it. I couldn't wait to talk to you about the c4 lp Or we have to be honest and we risk torpedoing something So it's like we have to allow things to organically come to us and they often do But please understand that if you send a bandcamp link to our instagram Individually or not, tell us guys. I have this amazing idea react to demos on the show Brother, I'm not trying to bury anybody. I don't want to do that. I don't want to I don't want to hurt anyone's feelings I also Channels on youtube the guys reacting to like seppel tora and those are the coolest guys on earth will never be them Uh, but as the as a thing like that's hacked. That's the hackiest hack. It's hack. Yeah thing you can do They're like pioneers those guys rule buddy hack it. So I don't know. No, I'm that nothing against them. But yeah, that's fair What was the first moment you felt this could work? Now that's a good one furnace fest furnace fest was the one traveling outside of Our home out of our homes to a place that neither of us have really ever spent time where we were invited and given space to do interviews with bands And and like that was that that to me was like dude. We're not we're in a hotel That's crazy. Yeah, the top one. We're in a hotel for this and it's on it And it's on it and we get to talk about that next week. That is a good one. Yeah, it seemed doable though the following spring into summer where it was tied down England Son and fury. I mean that was like, yo, this is work. But that was when I was like, oh, this is this is what we're doing Yeah, that was where I was like Here's my passport. You know that was that was this has this worked. This is somehow. Yeah, surreal Yeah, and here we are almost four years later. Lord coming up on four years. Um, oh, this is this is good This is great. We're what part of this came naturally and what did this comes very naturally easy It's the first thing we did. Yeah, and how we've told the story a thousand times But the first zoom call we had when we were trying to set up we were dying laughing. Yeah, we're just giggling giggling We love to um What doesn't work? What doesn't work? What or what was not natural, you know Trying to think I think being Learning that like, okay, you're a videographer. You're an audio engineer You're a producer. You're a producer. You're a social media manager There's so many little steps that people don't see. Yeah, and like That even maybe you still don't know that, you know, uh that are Our consistency is what separates us from the competition and Steven My fucking boy who's right here on this couch listening to this whole thing. He's the third wheel. He is he's the front of the tricycle We're the back. That's very true. He's what he has brought to this program the last couple years creative creatively technologically Emotionally because we broke. Oh, we were broke. It was it was I was like dude. I'm I'm shocked. You can't you couldn't do it Can't sleep I can't eat who could yeah that that did not come like and then giving up the reins Was tough, you know, and it's still like I'm I'm zooming with him. Yeah, you're still very Wednesdays at 10 p.m Or like we're on the discord calls putting the reels together Wednesdays at 10 p.m. P at pacific Yeah hours before they go up every week So that's it's all very hands-on. There's no ghost puppeteer making this shit happen. It's all this room So I'm trying to think if there's anything a little more emotional than work I mean we had no aspirations of like Any like I think people taking pictures with us and like us being above anybody and in any Way was never no we don't want that. I hate it. Well, I like taking pictures You know, I'm totally I'm not I'm not opposed to it. I have no opposition towards it. Yeah, we're welcome with it We're welcome to it. We're so excited about it and we're so grateful for the support always talking about the man on the street type stuff Yeah, like like if we're doing that we just want to make stuff It's not like we don't we don't want to take away from bands playing a fest or anything The last thing we ever want to do Is cause some kind of line or walk out in even to 30 people yeah, we don't I think we don't want to be the center of attention anywhere and uh And that's why kind of moving forward if we're traveling and doing something it'll be more behind the scenes and stuff That you know like fya has us every year and they give us the space to make full episodes with people who we would not be able to Do without and that's the that's the coolest shit What that that doesn't come naturally to us. I think I think being like the the fucking hard war guys Is like we don't want that. That's not that that we didn't choose that and we and we reject it Yes, I'll still we appreciate walking to a room and someone will go hard Yeah, it's like okay, okay, I get it. Thank you. Yeah. What can you say but thank you? Yeah, but like dude I I go home. I wake up The same as you same as you guys. I'm just looking for the good I'll always be music guy first you know and uh This takes away this the last three years The if I put the same amount of effort and time and brain power into music that I have this show Hey, but you also started two bands I did but that's that's so easy That's the easy part. I mean that's the that means nothing, you know that first album is effortless That's why I do it so much There's no pressure. You know I see I see going back and following up something people liked or people hated That's hard. That's pressure And if I had spent this time doing that It'd be it'd be a different it'd be a different story Any what almost stopped you from doing this show early on you editing. Yeah I was I was I was done. We had a blowout We had a minor blowout. I was driving and I couldn't I was like speech to text quietly. Yeah I felt but and I'm like and I kept being like and again. I'm not blaming you. Yeah. Yeah, but it was just it wasn't At one another. No, it was just at the situation like I'm dying and we and then we found a life raft Dude, and then and it was crazy that we were like we're looking for an editor And I was talking to Stephen about something else In that moment and Stephen's like Hey Just saw you're looking for an editor. I don't know why I didn't think of it earlier. I could give it a shot Honestly, and I was like honestly Well, and I was like dude, I was like man like that'd be crazy. Uh, Yeah, if you want to give it a shot do it and he was like, gotcha But then a couple weeks later We played the will turn we were walking. I said, are we okay? And you went you kidding? Yeah, that's nice. I brought you a bunch of merch. Yeah, that's beautiful. What was your honest first impression of me? Dude, so this is one that I read earlier and I was really trying to think I knew of taylor Toured with taylor. Yeah, didn't I knew of you? I didn't know you we were in a random group chat Yeah, I don't That I have no no it was to do with uh typo merch So my first actual impression of you was just like You were funny. This guy's got a lot of shirts a lot of shirts. You were funny Mm-hmm You were you were really funny because it was the european tour and you you were always cracking everybody up But then honestly The the vine guy I know you were funny. So my first impression of you is mostly humor. I would say and um Watching you at the 2012. This is hardcore Which is watching you guys play You know, yeah, that was the first time where I saw twitching tongues And I remember being like, oh he could sing. Oh, where do they get this from? Oh, they're all wearing the shirts Yeah, you know That was probably the first impression about you. I love it. Uh I knew of you because of the tour taylor coming home. I loved harms way, you know so I think You've I've obviously well documented episode one of hargore big fan one of the one of the biggest someone say um Was taylor going on tour of harms way and and and me being like dude. What was harms way like are they awesome? And he's like, yeah, they're sick Like you you got to meet him And I think we met we actually met in the parking lot of sound and fury as I've said And I remember being like, oh, this is a cool guy. He's nice. Oh He's cool. I love his band. He must be cool. You know, it's funny And then uh, and I think on the the tour was where it really blossomed. Yeah, that's where we all became where it was like I think this is my guy. Yeah. Yeah Uh, very like minded in a lot of ways very similar Um liked a lot of the same things He loves mayo and sour cream as do I Yeah, my first impression was I I'm pretty sure this is my guy You know and then that just kept going Yeah, that just kept slowly very slow burn. Yeah slow burn and we got thrown into something And I think we there was a bit of a whoa The kind of a buoyancy tell me and now we're you know, just just we got thrown into the parlor Oh where we're we go from probably interacting every once a while to weekly. Yeah, if not more So it was like there was a there was a kindred definitely there was a kinship Strongly formed early that was like we don't have to talk all the time But like I love what you do. You love what I do. We whenever we do talk. It's like man, if I live near this guy Yeah, we probably we probably see each other a lot and then we got Tossed into a game of dnd during coba That's right, and then we would hang out after the dnd after everybody logged off You would tell me about the technical twitch stuff. That's right. Those conversations would go hours because we're stuck inside I forgot about the dnd the dnd game was what really did it. Wow Brody king barbarian brody king barbarian and if you're stronger than him, he's mad man I'm a barbarian if you have more hp. He's pissed. Oh What do you think people get wrong about our dynamic? You know, what's interesting is I think in general You're a much more extroverted person than I am. Yeah, I think so. I'm I'm a pretty shy reserved guy You like be lining right through the crowd On your I'm a very I'm not a People person and like I turn it on when we press record and I'm I'm going to give our guests everything I have and then when we're done I'm a shut down I'm not an extrovert. I'm not I'm not My wife even my wife thinks I am and I have to be like you're not paying attention if you because she's like she She's hey, how are you? No, no, no, but she's like I don't need to leave the house this month. You know, oh She's perfectly happy being up there with the dogs and being done and as am I I like going to house The going to get a cup, you know seeing my really good friends, you know, I'll see I'll hang out with Mack and Brittany Seven days a week. Yeah, that's fine. I'm totally content with that But I'm not an extroverted person. I'm a very I keep to myself and I I can't pay attention to absolutely anything so I Existing existing day-to-day tough interesting. Yeah, very interesting by you. I don't know just I think It's not so much a you and me dynamic. It's a dynamic of the show that it's like You guys got to get x y and z on and it's like We know who we know we know we're working on it. We just had whore. Yeah, you know Yeah, we would talk about the guy from the band we've been talking about for four years Episode one if you if we want them on It will happen. It will happen and it's going to happen mark my words Gang gang gang gang. What did you learn about yourself through working with me? It is it is okay. And this is also something I learned in in like the band dynamic eventually Because it wasn't always that way in the band It's okay to allow the person with the idea to charge Is okay to support the idea. Wow and to fill the space that might require support Because although an idea can be really strong on its own In this medium especially the way it's presented and executed and the the soft skills are also very important um You are a guy with ideas and you are a guy who goes and I had to learn to not force my my FOMO and my wanting to be relevant To impede on better is better To impede on the like hey, this is all one thing and as long like just You can do this great. Mm-hmm kind of a thing um That that's something that I've I've had to learn that's like You can have I have ideas Some people might have a lot of ideas and that's okay. We've we found the dynamic, you know We figured it out. Yeah, and it's tried and true It works. Yeah, people might not realize we have very different styles when we do interviews Yeah, where Colin likes to be really prepared and to do some serious research out wine almost I'm writing essays about every about every guest. I will have five to ten thoughts and I like to Kind of improvise as we go certain ones. I do which helps which it does help certain ones. I do a lot more truly a lot more And other ones I just I especially if it's a friend or something Apart from dates because getting dates wrong on this sucks It does but apart from dates like I love just like talking to my friend, you know I think that's I mean that's a big takeaway from this is when we do these Yeah, the relief that we feel that it's just you and I yeah Uh, that's from ben from the start from it's like when it's just when we decide it's just you and me for a week. We're like, oh Here we go. It's just it's it's very refreshing and fun and you know, we we say that we tell the same stories a lot but like There's a lot of things I'll never talk about on here. There's people I'll never talk about bands I'll never talk about I got to keep them. Those are where I get my riffs, you know Uh So it's a constant journey of discovery. What part of our story? Is never or has never been told publicly I have sent hundreds of emails to brands and companies and dms and I stopped buying loop earplugs. They fucked us. They fucked us and knock it off. They suck Like I know like you guys at like they work. Yeah, they're great, but they they're scumbags. They just didn't They that were that fucking anything we've advertised for them worked way too well way too well because they're like I got my loops and I'm like, bro, they don't give a fuck. They haven't cared about us since 2023. Yeah Whereas we've kept every advertiser we've ever had. Yeah, they just ghosted us and and certain I understand things happen in that world. There's a lot of turnover in the relations artist relations world and like marketing relations people We've had a bunch of different man scape guys, you know, like it happens um That is a really difficult part and we've never really addressed it before but hey Most of the stuff we have are people being like Did you guys ever would you do this and we were like, yeah, and we'd rather Work with our friends than big companies. We'd rather work with a friend or your small business Yeah, we don't really like working with corporations. We don't work with a corporate thing. We prefer not to so Send us an email if you got the best one right here. Yeah That's an untold thing I think yeah, I think there's there Um I think how much work it is is what people really don't know Yeah, and and you do a lot of it and I see it So I know it's a lot as the steven as the steven does it's a lot of work this damn show But we love it. I mean ultimately we were talking yesterday wrapping those two interviews just thinking like What a fucking crazy job great job Like I really think if we just showed pat our past selves anything. Hey keep going like dude. Can you believe this is real? Yeah, I think that's another thing we don't talk about is how grateful we are What part of yourself feels flattened by public perception? I have riffs He does have I have some riffs. I don't have as many as others. Yeah But I have riffs Very early on people would like people would kind of Just kind of riff on our insider. Yeah, those are my jokes I Get to say whatever I want about it. Believe me. You kind of relax I think assuming I have any ego about anything I do When I'm deeply insecure about it all You don't think you have any ego about it. Oh, I mean I have ego about I think sometimes I write something I'm like that was awesome. I would say I have a reverse ego If anything, I think any any assumption that there's any like that. I think I'm superior to anyone Oh, yeah, it's just like so far from the truth. I think the ego thing is natural the superiority thing is is Beyond that, you know what I mean? I do think it's like It's okay for us to be like we're doing something and we've done something and we're reaching people We're doing a thing that uh, we we're providing a resource. We wish we had Yes, and we're also doing something that anyone really can do. Yeah, can try to do certainly We're just doing well. Yeah and providing a perspective that nobody else has Which you would you would do the same if you did it and watch as a young person Yeah, how do you protect your private self? I had kind of a new rule of thumb when it comes to social media if it isn't funny Or pertinent I don't really share it. Yeah. I think that's a good rule. I don't talk about my relationship at all. Yeah I Deleted my twitter, you know people don't need to have access to my brain 20. Yeah, but he uses the hard lure one I do use the hard lure one But that's the show that could be either of us How do you deal with criticism I don't I'm a Lee when like Reading comments about my my appearance. Oh my god, dude reading anything about Um my laugh or great laugh or when I did the subway takes thing I just talked about this. Yeah subway takes thing where I said that Chicago isn't part of the Midwest It's the Great Lakes which I stand by obviously Because I was collabed on that post every comment I saw And it like fucked me up and that's the dumbest thing ever. I should have been prepared for that But I just wasn't uh, so I don't deal with with criticism very well And I think I'm getting better. Mm-hmm now. I truly laugh about it. I don't care the other day. I read that we We suck off marauder too much And it's like bro. I've owned this shirt since I was 15 I'm the same guy. I'm I'm been me the whole time. But now I just happens to now I'm happen to be Well, it happens to be cool. How do I deal with criticism? Uh I have to stop seeking it out Oh, yeah, it sucks that criticism is like half of art, you know, it's true because it's so subjective Um And I criticize stuff all the time privately Yeah, yeah, I have you ever left has adult you ever left like This fucking sucked other than like the band president Who sucks? Uh, I don't know. I don't think so And other than like that's my point. Yeah, I don't think so. I really try not to I'm and especially about hardcore music Especially about hardcore because hardcore on hardcore crime is not necessary. There's there's musical evil in this world president That's real some real dog shit. What boundary did you have to learn in the hard way? There's some restricted accounts on the instagram. Yeah, you don't have to respond to everything. No What do you believe in more strongly now than than ever? This is a young person's genre as it should be. It's a genre for the youth And and I'm perfectly happy to be an old head. I take no Negative connotation to be an uncle or old or anything like that. I'm near and 40. It's happening. I don't care. It's fine Gray got gray. I had gray in high school. You believe that? Um, I have no issue with that and I take no issue with that. So I I believe truly that it's like When I had when last year at fyi when we talked to that band from south florida, no truth What was it? No truth. No truth. They were pitting all weekend and they were like, yeah, we love ringworm That is what this is for that's what this is for we want to be for them This is not this is just like hey, you know all those questions you have about these bands you love We've had those same questions our whole lives. We get it. Here they are uh, I I what I believe in strongly is anybody in punk and hardcore Who can't cut it and ends crashes and burns into a right-wing grift Is a is the biggest fucking loser on earth And that no matter what happens to the show if it crashes and burns Neither of us will will fall and and pivot to a right-wing conservative grift What responsibility do you feel towards our audience? Honesty and that's why and that's why there's certain guests where it's like, you don't want me to have that guy You don't you can't do it. I did you know how we feel it would not help anybody Honestly, I tell you what I like and he tells you what he likes Yeah, it's beautiful And you tell us what you don't like What that we do and you know sometimes we see it What do you hope outlives you? I I believe The mindset of Rejecting normal Will always go on has nothing really to do with me. I just happened to follow it right that mindset But it's not something I created or anything like that, but I just think I hope That there will always be a 13 year old who's like, no, yeah, because I think there will be that's really important It's just always important And it doesn't even matter what direction it really starts Just so long as there's people who are questioning Everything, you know, I think that that's really important and I'm obviously speaking more so in a punk rock and musical cultural lens But I think that extends kind of beyond everything. Yeah. Yeah I think when we make every episode we try and we try not to date it The only dating that there really is is when somebody has like a new album coming out But it's meant to be viewed or listened to at any time We're our our course. This isn't that I hope that this remains an archive For which people get to their questions that they've always had the bands. They love answered And also the art that we've made, you know the songs the music that we've made Like you gotta hope that outlives you, you know, that that that's why it exists What scares you the most about being remembered? I just think we both want to be good people. Yeah Yeah, but you know what man No one remembers your great grandparents, you know The people in history know their names, you know gg The people in history who we collectively remember are like 0.0001 of the population like So my answer is I don't I really don't worry about that I don't worry about that. I hope my friends and family think I'm a good guy. That's it. Then yeah, yeah What would feel incomplete if it ended now? Danzig Hatfield Hatfield Araya, yeah, okay Well, a little Bartol. Yeah for real slayer metallic at Danzig Misfits Jerry control anybody anybody from typo. Yeah. Yeah, there's a lot There's plenty. There's there's a lot of bucket lists that we will not stop until we get Fully agree and then those are just going to open more doors and it's all you know Um, but yeah, Hatfield and Danzig I think for me or that's the those are those are top top They're still returning. Yeah. Yeah, what chapter Still hasn't been written I think we have a lot more traveling ahead of us I think The travel show idea is really fun. Yeah and I think that that is That's there's definitely something there. Obviously aside from All the work I'd like to do with this show Uh, so many people I want to talk to you so many questions. I have so many bands I love so many albums. I love that I just want to ask about Hmm All the music I still want to write I got I got Records and records and records and records and records and records inside of me that have to be unlocked that I'll always write but Uh This will not last forever You know, hmm and one day I don't know when I'm going to spectacularly log off I'm gonna stay off just offline and you will never see me again You will see me. You'll have a key to it. You'll have a key to the compound But I will vanish off the face of the earth one day And I want you to remember that now. I want you to listen real good. You're not gonna know where I am I'll pop up at some shows. I'm gonna be gigging. So that's it other than that. I'll be at the compound How will you know where the shows are? I mean, it'll be in my band's playing, you know, it'll be like is he gonna show up. Okay I'll be there. Okay, but I will log off on it and I cannot Wait I have to be logged on, you know, yeah, what we do is log on. Yeah This show is being logged on and knowing what's going on and explaining what's going on a lot of time. That's true one day Mark my words. I'm gonna log off and I'm never getting back on And that chapter is coming But for now, I'm so happy to be with you all. I'm so happy to be with bow It's it's the it is the greatest privilege of both of our lives to be able to do this Thank you guys a million times over. Thank you forever. Obviously. I hope this wasn't too I think it was fun self-centered or anything. It'll be something somebody we're doing the fucking metalcore bracket next week or something Yeah, yeah, but Anybody watching this are the people who would always watch this, you know, especially if you got to three hours deep They're all right. Um, you're bow. I love you. Love you, buddy. Stephen. I love you. Love you, buddy Everybody watching we love you Taylor. You know, I love you. That's my guy Taylor test. I love you too. Lana my wife I love you. Wow, you know My dogs upstairs. They're watching Lord of the Rings. It's almost over. Think about that Fellowship is there about to cross the river. The warm air just died. He just died. Yeah, he did not fail them He did not fail them He did what most men could not Don't you fucking start with me. We're gonna talk about this off camera. We'll see you all next week. Bye You