The Religion Business Exposed (ft. Nathan Apffel)

This episode of Chris the Confessions 2.0 is brought to you by booking.com. Booking.com offers a wide array of hotels and vacation rentals across the US, so you can find exactly what you're looking for. There's something for everyone, even those who are impossible to please, find exactly what you're booking for. Booking.com. Booking. Yeah, book today on the site or in the app. Welcome to Chris the Confessions 2.0. Folks, I have a guy here today that his publicist, Nathan Apfel, whose publicist reached out to me many months ago about a topic regarding faith and about a project that you are working on regarding the churches around the country. And everyone knows that we have a strong faith based background and that we are Christian. Um, but your project has caused me to take a much deeper look into what faith really means in our country today. And so I know that everyone loves to hear all things Chris Lee. Um, I was just told a couple of weeks ago that our shows rate the highest when it's family talking to family. But I'm giving you this today because I want to educate you, the people that are listening the same time that I'm being educated because we're going to talk about some heavy stuff in this, in this first round. And some of it's going to be uncomfortable for me. So I have said to you today, talk about whatever it is that you want to talk about and educate me. So thank you for coming today. Well, thanks for having me. And I want to start off with, I'm a Christ follower through and through. I believe he's the way the truth in life and no one gets to our father, our creator, except through him. Right. I want to start with, we're here with a unifying message. We're here to unify the body of Christ. Right. And that takes truth and light. Right. And so we are here to just turn the light on. And in season one, we realized really quickly when you turn a light on the cockroaches run and then people who, who want to step into the light willingly step forward. And so, uh, yeah, our message is one of unity and Christ called us to unify as a body. And so we're here to call the wolves to account. And at the same time, encourage Christians that you are a vital part of this living organism of the body. Right. And that's what we want to reinvigorate. And so now tell me about your project. What's at the title of your project title? The project is called the religion business. Right. And it looks at the trillion dollars a year trillion dollars every year. That generous Christians around the world give to their churches and their religious organizations. So that's bigger than the U.S. military budget. Right. And so Christians have so much power from their generosity to their talent and time and it's being massively underutilized in a lot of times abused. And so that's what season one looks at. So what caused you to start digging into this? I was raised in mega churches in Los Angeles and then I moved to San Diego and I traveled the world for about 25 years since I was 18 working on travel TV shows. And I loved to visit churches and seminaries wherever I'd go. So I'd end up in mostly developing nations because I worked in the action sports world. And so I'd be in the favelas in Brazil and then in underground churches in Asia and in Indonesia. And I realized really quickly that money is not needed to build a beautiful church gathering. And so then I would come back to the States and all of a sudden I'd walk into the big buildings and they were always asking for money. Right. And so I just asked the question like what if we've built a machine that's so expensive? Why have we built this? It doesn't say to do any of this in the Bible. Right. And so I just says opposite of that. Don't don't build temples in my name. Well in Matthew 25, you know, help the thirsty, give water to the thirsty, feed the hungry, help the poor, help the widow, the marginalized, the prisoner, the sojourner. And so I became obsessed with, okay, what did Christ actually command us to do? And what can we do with the generosity of Christians? And so and then there was another big story that happened. My youth pastor, he was my junior high pastor, became my high school pastor, was being groomed to take over this mega church. And I loved him. I would stay at his house. He would travel. I'd travel with him to youth camps and all that. He ended up raping his adopted kid. And yeah, he was he got out of jail, I think last year. So he's been in jail for almost, I think over over 20 years. And that really pressed me because I also said, how could this man that my parents fully let me hang out with is a 13 year old boy? How could he for a decade and a half be abusing a child and no one, not even his wife, like see that something was off. Don't you think that that comes down to perception because we cloak so much in faith? We feel that if we wrap it in faith that it's more sellable. So, I mean, it's almost like with the Catholic Church, you know, with all of these kids that were that were molested. Um, there, you know, it's always been so baffling to me because growing up in the in a rural country town, you know, you had you had to be in church on Wednesday nights and Sunday morning and Sunday nights. Um, but I knew at an early age, you know, 11, 12, 13, that people were doing things in our church, you know, that they were not supposed to be doing. But no one ever talked about that. And then as I got older and understood that, you know, the music director was actually making out with the choir director, but both of them were married to somebody else. And I was like, this just doesn't fit right with me. Well, I got a question for you. Why it's cover up culture. Right. You know, why do you think a church, an institution, a brand, whether that be I go to a weekend or Lakewood or wherever, why do you think churches feel the need to cover up as opposed to expose? Well, I think that in my, my beliefs are that people, people tend to hide what they can't explain away. And if the, if what they can't explain away conflicts with the narrative that they're selling, then that cuts into their marketability. So that's how I've always looked at it. You know, we're not, I'm not going to sit and tell you that, you know, this neighborhood's a great neighborhood, but there's a landfill that might go in back here. Yeah. Okay. Then now you've depreciated the asset. So, you know, I remember moving to LA in 1986. And I remember seeing the Mormon Cathedral that was right there off of Santa Monica. And I thought that is the most gorgeous church I've ever seen. And I didn't know it. I knew nothing about a Mormon at all. I mean, I was, I'm Southern Baptist and grew up church of God. Fashion wasn't as good as church of God. So, you know, when I left that little town and moved to Los Angeles and saw the Mormon Cathedral, I mean, it was, it was absolutely one of the most beautiful buildings I'd ever seen. And I automatically at 18 years old thought the Mormons must be the richest people in faith because their churches were like so much better than the Southern Baptist church that I grew up in. You know, in size and in quality and construction and glitz and glam. And then I started paying attention in my twenties and I started realizing the difference between the faiths and that I was going to stick with being a Southern Baptist. I did not grow up in a church that that grew large amounts of wealth, nor was the congregation there that had a lot of wealth to give to a church to grow it like that. But I do know that in the next town over that church, you know, was a big church and they catered to the wealthy families of that town. And so, you know, getting into your project, it caused me to go back to my youth and it helped me to understand some of the things that I had questions about then. But then I have now been answered in following some of the stuff that you're doing. And, you know, when your publicist, Kathy, she's been very good about keeping you at the front of my feed. Good to know. Yes. She she literally keeps you at the top of my thing. Thank you, Kathy. Of messaging me with another article or something else that you're working on. And I'm like, I wish she would just leave me alone for a minute. I'm I want to do this. And then I started because a lot of times I like something. I'll look at it first and I won't read the whole thing, but I like it just so that you think I've been polite. But thanks, Todd. I started now because she was so persistent that I started reading it. And then I got scared. Well, so a lot of people don't want to look at what we're presenting because the truth hurts. The truth is. The truth is uncomfortable at times. Especially if you've grown up in a system. Let's take the Mormon Church. The Mormon Church is sitting on about 350 billion billion dollars in assets. They're going to hit a trillion dollars in market assets in the next two decades. And what's happened with the Mormon Church is they're a church that preaches compulsory tithe. So you're going to bring your 10 percent into the storehouse of the Mormon Church. And you it's required for you to get your temple recommend card. So if you want to be a part of that really be a part of this church, you we require to pay for you. Got to pay to pay. So what's happened is what they do is and this is the thing that breaks my heart. They demand money from even individuals that are really struggling. They've said you should tithe before you pay your rent. We can help you with your rent if you don't have money for that, but you need to give us your 10 percent. So what are they helping when they get that's a slippery slope. They say they are, but you know, they they may they will come over to your house and look into your pantries to see what food you have. Like they just don't help you when you say, hey, I need help. There's a there's a serious checklist. But so what's happened in the LDS church is they've taken this 10 percent from whether you're wealthy or struggling and they invest it in the market. They don't tell you to go, hey, take that 10 percent and invest it in the market so you can prosper. But is it the church supposed to use utilize their tithes? To help the community to help those that are in theory. Yes, but they don't get me wrong. They'll say, hey, Nathan, we give a billion dollars a year to humanitarian aid. So in this goes to show this is what most churches do. But that's not 10 percent of what they're working. Exactly. It's a dog and pony show. So they say, hey, we're doing this this nice thing over here as they're investing in their growing their business to a trillion dollars a year. And so what's happened in the LDS church is they've actually hit something that the widows might report. So they're a group of investigators, financiers. Many of them have worked for the church in the past. They the widows might report calls it escape velocity. So they have so much invested in the market that their returns are averaging about 20 billion a year. Billion just in their returns in the market. The cost to run the global LDS church is only seven billion. So they could fund the entire global church off a portion of their profits in the market. Never ask for a dollar again from their congregation and the church would thrive in perpetuity. But they still ask people for 10 percent or demand people give their 10 percent. That's insane. That's so we've built its idolatry. In its purest form, we've built and all that money and they dress so poorly. What do you think of me? I'm terrified to ask. I mean, it's you know, you I mean, I look at you. I mean, at least you remember Jim Baker and Tammy Faye Baker. I mean, at least they were gaudy. Yeah. I mean, you know, they were tacky, but I mean, you could see where they were pissing away the money. Yeah, 100 percent. You know, with the Mormon, you can say, OK, well, they're putting it in real estate because you look at you look at the cathedrals and you look at all the places there the second probably the first now. They're the second largest private landowner in the U.S. They buy farmland. They they're building a city in Florida all under the guise of a church. So that means they pay no taxes. Wonder how they feel about Mormon wives. I don't think they're very happy with that. No, because I've got two of them that's reached out to me wanting to be on my podcast. Hmm. And then that was they have the Housewives of Salt Lake City now. I think so. Yeah. Yeah. My my claim to that's been scandalous. I worked on Temptation Island, but I don't watch much reality shows anymore. So I don't watch it either. But my wife does. Yeah. I bet that has caused the stir. You know, they have to wear those garments. Mm hmm. Yeah. And they're getting they're getting, you know, more sexy because they realize the women don't want to wear full sleeves. So now they're they're how I would say that fashion will drive. Yeah. And now they, you know, then now they're talking about allowing, I think, Kathy, are they allowing tattoos now? They will soon. Yeah. Like the church that that church follows culture. They're always following the 10 percent. Yeah. That's what they're father. Brilliantly said. So it's they're chasing. They're chasing the downer. Mm hmm. Yeah. And but that's what's so crazy is they could lose all their membership. Every single person could leave the Mormon church and it would still thrive because of of the God they've built in the stock market. Well, you know, it's I don't understand it. I don't I don't claim to understand the whole Mormon faith. But, you know, when I was at my summer camp for my brief moment of incarceration, I was with this guy. I was with actually several Mormons. And he has 20 children. Wow. He has 20 children by three wives. Was he a polygamist or just divorced? I think you're crazy. I mean, I don't know who in the hell wants three wives. Yeah. I don't understand that. I mean, you know, having one is enough for you to try to to please and to try to get along with a little on three. And you know, the others are bitching about the one that you're with tonight. Oh, for sure. So why do you want to deal with that? He has 20 kids, but he is one of 157. He is one. He has 156 siblings. Oh, my gosh. Wow. And I've seen the photographs. What was he in jail for? It was something to do with he owned an old refinery or something, processing oil or whatever from restaurants and stuff. And it had to do with a tax credit or something. Taxes as usual. But I would say to him, why explain to me how this happens, because it's so contradictory to my faith growing up as a Southern Baptist, because when you take a wife, you're to cling to your wife. Your wife, the wife is to cling to her husband. It doesn't say that when you get bored with this, when you can go cling to the next one and cling to the next one. And it's just a weird. It's a weird religion for me. This episode is brought to you by booking.com. Booking.com offers a wide array of hotels and vacation rentals across the U.S. so you can find exactly what you're booking for. There's something for everyone, even those who are impossible to please, whether you're booking for yourself, your partner, your picky teens, your sleep light, Rise Early Mom or your high maintenance group chat. You can find exactly what you're booking for. You all know that I have lots of high maintenance people in my family, from my kids to my husband. I mean, it's off the chain. And if we can find our perfect stay on booking.com, any baby can find exactly what you're booking for. Booking.com, booking. Yeah. Book today on the site or in the app. OK, I want to take a minute to share something really important to me. And that's Good Girl Rx, a female focused, health and wellness company created by my daughter, Savannah. As women, we so often put everyone else first and ignore our own health. Or we're just told to push through instead of being truly listened to. What I love about Good Girl Rx is that it's built around real medical care and compassion through their telehealth platform. Women can meet virtually with licensed medical providers who take the time to review your health history and goals. If it's clinically appropriate, your provider may discuss personalized treatment options, including GLP one medications, lectures, epitide, as well as wellness therapies such as NAD. Everything is determined by a doctor and tailored to the individual. As a mother, it means everything to me that this company was created to help women feel supported instead of judged. Everyone's journey is different, results vary, and not everyone qualifies. But having access to licensed physicians who truly listen can make all the difference. If you're ready to take a step toward prioritizing your health, visit GoodGirlRx.com and use code Confessions 15 for 15% off at checkout. Medical care is provided by licensed physicians. What would be the most shocking thing that you believe? What do you what have you uncovered that you think would be most most shocking to me as a Southern Baptist? Man, murder for hire? Like the stories we have. It's a Saturday in South Carolina. Oh, is it? OK, OK. But but but in the name of God, you know, we don't do it. Drug running from the Middle East, you know, gun running from the Middle East on private planes, Southern Baptist do that. Well, no, no, no, the panel, the panel costals and charismatic. Oh, I knew the panel costals look at the hairstyle. Yeah, the let's see from the Southern Baptist side of things. Baptists are pretty like I went I go to the SBC convention. Like I'm a fan of Baptists. I mean, what we just were in Houston two weeks ago with a buddy of my name, Tommy G. He's a big YouTuber. And we all he always comes on for every season and we expose one story together. And there's one church in particular called Second Baptist. It's been around for ninety nine years. And Houstonians have funded this church for ninety nine years. Generations of generous Christians, Baptists have given to this church. Right. And they've grown. Their assets are valued at about a billion dollars. This is crazy to me that we're talking about churches with assets that are in the billions of dollars. Yep. So that's what people when when we think of church, we think of like even the mega churches, Lakewood, Joel Osteen, you're like, oh, yeah, it's a stadium. You know, what's it? They generate 60 million a year. I don't know. I can't remember. But but OK, it's it's a good size business. You know, but what you don't realize is the generational giving to specific institutions. And so Second Baptist, when you have ninety nine years of generosity, usually 10 percent is what they ask for. That money goes somewhere. And a lot of times pastors will think, oh, we're being blessed. Let's buy this building. Let's expand to these different. They call them satellite campuses. And so Second Baptist, I believe, has six campuses, five, six or seven. I can't remember the exact number. But we'll say six campuses. They have a private school and their annual revenues are about 130 million a year. And so but you think, oh, I'm just going to go to church, right? But when you got 130 million pouring in every year with this, the big one, without any external accountability or oversight. So churches don't file a nine ninety, which is informational tax form with the IRS. So no one knows where that money goes. So Second Baptist balloons to about a billion in assets. There's ninety four thousand registered members with Second Baptist. That is a member congregate led church. So that means those ninety four thousand people get to vote on what happens with the buildings and the pastoral salaries and who's running this church. Well, in twenty twenty three in some shady back end deals with which there's one lawyer involved in multiple scandals in Texas. And his dad used to be the lawyer for a mob bosses in Dallas. And so you have mob boss attorneys that have now moved into the religious sphere within these back room deals. They wiped out the voting rights of ninety four thousand members and put it in the hands of six people. So this billion dollars in a scam. It's a scam. It's a real estate scam. And so there's a lawsuit happening right now. The congregants are suing for their voting rights back because now these six members, five of which are related and then there's this lawyer. So these six people get to decide the future of a billion dollars in assets. This sounds like some some shit that goes on in Congress. Yeah, exactly. It well, it's it's when season two, when you look at the Epstein files, there's like an underground Christian Epstein files as well. It's it's politic and religion run very similar. And and it's the same dirty players. You know, usually it's generational. And I want to be very specific, though, there are so many good pastors out there. But these wolves are tainting the Christian name. And so that's what we're here to clean up. So you had mentioned Lakewood. Joel is a family friend of ours that we love dearly. Am I still good with Joel? Yeah, I have nothing I have not ever looked into Joel heavily. I didn't get kicked out of his church. So now you want to tell me. No, no, no, so comes on my show after knowing I'm friends with Joel. He's going to tell me he got kicked out. No, but I was 12, 14 years ago now. So I actually shot the whole show when I was 28. OK, I'm 41. OK. And I went to Lakewood was just the one on my radar. I didn't know what I was doing. I was a little I was young, right? And I was just pissed off, you know, so I'm like, let's go film some stuff. Right. So I went and I actually had a great conversation with his number two. But then we brought another camera package in and they're like, you need to leave. And I'm like, OK, whatever. So I left. But I wasn't the Bible. I pray for wisdom and discernment. That's the only thing I pray for because you need that to tell stories like this. And, you know, wisdom is the beginning of the fear of the Lord. And that's what I pray for. I didn't have it when I was 28. Right. And so what I had shot, it just was very ranty and just frustrating. And so I just shelved it and I never looked into Joel again. There's way Joel is a producer, you know, he's a smart businessman, charismatic leader. He's a very good motivation. Like he's very motivation, motivational the way he speaks. I've got bigger fish to fry than Joel. And I think Joel has utilized the religious exemptions to grow his church. And there's nothing wrong with that. Right. No, there's not legally. There's nothing wrong with that. OK. And so that's where it's like Joel's Joel. And so Joel has not amassed no three hundred something billion dollar empire. Well, I don't I don't know. I doubt I don't think so. But so for me, one thing that I would ask Joel is does your congregation know your salary? That's my only when you get to big brands like that and big big names like that. I believe the people funding your organization, just like any secular nonprofit, you know, the leadership's salary. Right. And the leader should be able to explain the worth of that salary. And so Stephen Fertick elevation, Mike Todd transformation in Oklahoma. So what do you think about Stephen Fertick? Oh, Savannah's not a fan of Stevens. I know personal story. He uses people and I hate users. Well, then that's in line with what Savannah said. Yeah. And when when I read the scriptures, I that's what I look to. And the scriptures preach exactly what a pastor should be, not a lever of money. Meek. It's when you go down the list and I look at Fertick, I don't see any of that. And so I look to scripture and that's what I believe shepherds should be. Stephen Fertick is a businessman. He's a musician, just like Mike Todd, and they're very charismatic on stage. And so I think accountability begins. So let's talk about accountability for Joel, Osteen for all these guys. There's no 990 that's filed for religious service. There's no 990 that's filed for religious organizations. And this is such a crucial part of this whole problem. Secular nonprofits file a 990 with the IRS. It's an informational sheet that shows where your money goes. Hey, I raised a million dollars this year. Hey, I raised a billion Samaritans purse. You know, Samaritans purse. Oh, here we go. Samaritans purse. They they do good work. Yes, I love the family. I've been to their amazing retreat up in Alaska. OK, they do they do good work. So what happens, though, is if let's say I generate a million and you generate a billion a year as secular nonprofits, we both have to file the same sheet that shows top executive salaries and basically a generalization, a waterfall of where that million and that billion go. So donors can look at it and be like, OK, they used my donation and my gift. How they said they were going to use it. Right. That document is also a legally binding document. So if you lie on it, you're going to get in trouble. Right. So if out of my million, I pocket 500 million, but don't tell anybody. They can say, hey, Nathan, you lied on your 990. Right. Churches don't religious organizations do not file that document. So it means financials. I have no accountability. There is no accountability. And everybody goes, Stephen Ferdick's my favorite. He goes, Nathan, you know, we we get third party audited. OK, let's talk about the audited would be someone they're still choosing. And then they give their financials to that auditor and the auditor has to go. OK, they're being honest on this on this general ledger. Right. I can doctor a general ledger all day long. Right. So could my CEO is a perfect example, Todd. So people can doctor financials. They can't doctor where they can, but they can be held to account on informational documents to the IRS. So those third party audits are just smoke and mirrors because I can give you that million dollars that I raised. OK, I'm going to doctor this general ledger and hand it off to this auditor. And this auditor is going to go, OK, it checks out because we can't look at the bank. Right. And an accountant, I learned that even though we were represented by one, you know, now we're represented by one of the largest in the world, but an accountant can only certify the numbers that are provided to them. And so if a church or someone like Steven is giving a third party accountant numbers, then how is that accountant supposed to know if they're real or not? They have to trust that they are the source. Exactly. And so this is the bedrock. You know, there's a great proverb about what do you build your house on? Is it sand or on the rock? When you build a your sometimes three hundred and fifty three hundred and fifty three hundred and fifty billion dollar machine. Now the LDS church, when you build your machine on a sandy foundation, which is just trust, that machine is destined to fail. It's destined for fraud. And let's talk about this number. It's estimated ninety two billion dollars a year is straight stolen from churches. Every year ninety, billion church staff. You can't even trust the people in the church. No, you can't. You can't trust anybody. The Bible talks about this. Come on, you can't trust anybody. Wouldn't you be afraid that God would strike you down? I would say I have a fear of I have a fear of God. Yeah. So you're wise. You got wisdom. Yeah, I have a fear of God. Wolves have moved in. So John three sixteen. Do you know the verse? Yeah, my son put it as a tattoo on the side of his body. And I had it removed on television. Oh, wow. He used his body as a cheat sheet. He had gone to school to a Christian school his whole life, but could not seem to remember that. I got to decide to put it here. So now it's been removed. OK, a few verses later, it says Christ came into the world as light, but men loved the darkness rather than the light for their deeds were evil. Men's hearts, human's hearts are just evil. And if we can work in a system where there's no light and transparency and accountability, we will naturally take advantage of that system. And we will naturally take advantage of generous, trusting congregants. And so we've created hell inside the Christian church to the point where people are just leaving the faith. And it's not because they don't have faith in Christ. This is the big one. It's not because they don't have their faith. It's because they've lost faith in the institution. The institution can solve the majority of social issues here in the US. Right. I mean, it has the money. It has the time. It has the talent. But instead, we're focused on building empires to ourselves. Mormons help us out. Yeah. I would love the Mormon church like the Mormon church has the capacity to be the largest philanthropic organization in the world, but for some reason they won't do it. I need to talk to Donnie and Marie. Let's do it. Yeah. So what we're really trying to do is we have three full projects going on. We have the religion business. We're filming season two right now, which is social issues. So it starts the bedrock of most social ills is child sexual abuse. So if you were abused as a child, your odds of being homeless skyrocket, your odds of joining the foster care system are being placed in the foster care system skyrocket about 90 percent of kids in the foster care system end up being abused. And so episode one looks at child sexual abuse and how the church could like be the biggest proponent to solve this problem financially because the federal government doesn't care about it, which is so ridiculous. The federal government cares about themselves. Right. And then episode two is homeless episode three is the federal government cares about themselves and Samar yet. Yes. And and Israel and Iran for some very Iran in particular, which is I stay away from Israel because, you know, that's God's chosen people. So I'm gonna I'm gonna stay aligned with him on that. You're you're chosen, bro. I feel like that, you know, because there is there is a lot of talk about sexual abuse in the Mormon church among the young among the kids. Have you discovered that in your research? Yes. Unfortunately, the church and the and the Southern Baptist Convention, by the way. Right. Okay. Like again, when there's financial abuse, season one, like presents this argument when there's an opportunity for financial abuse and mismanagement without accountability, sexual abuse usually is right behind it because we cause if I got away with that, why can't I get away with exactly? Exactly. And so ultimate power ultimately corrupts is what we always say. We sat down with a mob boss and he goes, Nathan, if I could go back, he's retired in his seven in his seventies. He goes, if I go back, I wouldn't get in the mob. I'd start a church because he's like the legal architecture of religious organizations is the perfect vehicle for abuse. Organize crime. Whatever you want to do, trafficking, money laundering, you name it. It's it because no one can look inside. No one in the IRS is terrified to audit churches. They don't want to stick their fingers in that. Now, Jim and Tammy Baker, they they made a, you know, they made an example. They live very good and they had P.T.L. Yeah. I remember all that. Yeah. I used to say all that money, but why can't she just tone it down? Mm hmm. Paula White. So Paula, let's take Paula for an example. So I, she did really good things. Like this is the thing is when systems naturally corrupt and you're, I think you're a byproduct of that. Your time on vacation was a byproduct of, of a system corrupting on itself, right? Judges in looking out for their best interests, building their brand. Right. Pastors can take that same, they do take that same trajectory. Same thing with, with politics. A politician goes in most of them, I believe, wanting to serve the public, wanting to serve their community, flash forward two years, four years, eight years. They're just getting paid off by lobbyists all day long. And it becomes about me, my brand. How do I build this? Well, I've watched so many in the entertainment industry. Mm hmm. Um, people of faith latching on to certain celebrities and then that celebrity showing up at their church or that celebrity, or that pastor marrying that celebrity, um, and falling into that circle. I mean, I, I lived in LA. I mean, I went to church to some of these churches there, you know, where we all congregated. Um, and I said to my wife, I said, this is brand building 101. And I watched one particular guy who is huge now because of one musician that he tied himself to. Mm hmm. And we lose sight of the focus of what we're called to be as Christians, as pastors, and we build brands to ourselves. And that is the biblical definition of idolatry. And we're building idols to ourselves and then using the Lord's name to do it, which one of the command is do not take the Lord's name in vain as does not say, do me not cuss it. That's not what that means. The Bible also talks about your language. But what that means is don't use the name of God to build vanity or your own for your own vanity. Mm hmm. And I look around and most of these brands, I'm called brands do that. Yeah. And we've just lost sight of the mission of Christ. And yeah. Well, I mean, I am still just baffled. Let's go back to Samaritan's Purse because again, the Graham family are near and dear to us. Um, I grew up. I remember I'm going to go ahead and admit this, you know, back when I was growing up, you know, you had to get up and turn the knob on the television. And we had four, seven and 13. That was our channels. And Billy Graham did the Billy Graham crusade. I've been, I went to those as a kid. And my grandmother, Allie May-Christly, God rest her soul was one of the finest women in the world. She lived for the Billy Graham crusades. Well, as a child, that was the most boring thing in the world when Laverne and Shirley was on the other channel. Mm hmm. So I would go and turn the channel, but I do it fast. So, so I'd skip it and I just say, well, I thought it was on tonight. And I said, it's not on. And I said, but Laverne and Shirley is just, well, if all I got to watch is him, too silly gals, I'm going to bed. So I would get to watch Laverne and Shirley. So God forgive me for that. But as I grew older, I started really getting into Billy Graham. And after my grandmother passed away, that's when that happened. And Billy Graham sermons have brought me so much peace in my life. And I truly feel like that Billy Graham was as close to Christ as anyone that I could ever imagine. Do you know the story about the money with him in the briefcase? If you tell me or the bag, there's a beautiful story where, you know, back when Billy's rolling around, you didn't have credit cards, right? So you do cash offerings and there's this awesome story and they'd always count the money in the bag. Right. And then they put it in a bag or I can't remember what he had, but there was a photograph of him walking out with this big bag of money. And he immediately said, I will never touch the money again. Because of the appearance because of the appearance and I don't want to be associated with that. And I have so much respect for that because he goes, this is not what I'm called to do. And sin, that's what I loved about him. And so for me to well, just tell me what there is to know about Samaritan's first because Franklin runs that now. Yep. Yep. So I'll give. So that's a great story about Billy. There's another story where church becomes about numbers campaigns like that big performances become about numbers, which is what? Baptisms and salvation. So that's that's pretty much the bedrock of what a church when I say we leading people to Christ. Exactly. So they thought of these things called the altar calls, you know, and these this isn't this isn't a biblical concept. This is tradition. This is something that we developed in the last hundred and fifty years because hey, we want people to feel we want to create this emotion. So and Billy was a part of this. I don't know if it was his exact. I don't know if he knew it, but staff when they would do the altar calls at these big, you know, stadium events, people felt uncomfortable to walk down to the stage. So they had plants. They would put people in the audience, their staff that would stand up and walk down to the stage to encourage others to get up and do it. Right. That's manipulation. And so you is it manipulation or is it making the situation more welcoming for someone to that may deal with social anxiety that that would be that would be a prompt to OK, I feel safer now with it. Well, you're lying to the that individual at the bedrock of it. You're you're you're faking you're faking salvation because you're saying that it shouldn't take a third party to get up before you move. My spirit should have moved. My salvation is between Christ and myself. OK, so so what I mean by that is we start. We start probably going to give him a pass on that one. OK, I just wanted to say this is where the model starts shifting, right? Right. We start building things. Right. And do you know about Portalsworth, Alaska? No. OK, so this is my rub with Samaritan's Purse. They do great work overseas. Right. They spend about 60 to 100 million a year doing amazing work. What happens with the rest? And in the last four years, they've doubled their net assets. So Samaritan's Purse is starting to look more like the Mormon Church. They're acquiring Franklin. You better be listening to them. Yeah, Franklin, I would love to talk with you. You have 130 million in private aircraft. You're building comforts. And we went up to Portalsworth. It's in season one because they have this great retreat for veterans. My brother's a veteran, my best friends of veteran. I have a massive respect for our armed forces. So do I. And so they've built this retreat for husband and wives to come up and reinvigorate their relationship, rekindle with God. I'm all for that kind of kind of outreach. Samaritan's Purse is based in North Carolina. There's great fishing in North Carolina. Franklin Graham. I got him. I can't remember the dates. Now late nineties bought a property on Portalsworth in Lake Clark. You're talking about the one of the most remote places in America. Nope. No commercial jets fly. You have to take float planes in or private jets to land on your little dirt runway. And I've like I'm very well versed in this spot. And I've been to Alaska multiple times. And so I know I know how remote and rugged it is. So Franklin bought a property a couple years later. Some are Samaritan's Purse bought this little property next to him, this lake front property. Well, flash forward and now they've built this amazing outreach program. Mike Pence went there. But no one knows the cost of this operation. And so you've built this fishing retreat in the most remote place in the U.S. that and no one even knows the cost to get a couple up there. And so Samaritan's Purse has had to buy private planes to get them in. And it's I would argue Franklin loves Alaska. I love Alaska. Would I put a nonprofit up there? No, I would be more cost effective with my donor dollars. I'd say, Hey, we could do that in North Carolina. We could do that anywhere in the. So you're saying that he put it there because his property is there. Yes. And he loves and it serves him from a personal and it's a right off at that point. And so what I mean is we start taking something with good intentions like what Billy built and I firmly believe he built Samaritan or he didn't build Samaritan's Purse. Sorry. What what Frank what Billy built was beautiful, but Franklin has taken the name of his dad and just slowly built and built. But now they've shifted it to where it's looking more like the Mormon church. You're doubling your net assets every couple years. You're invested in the stock market. And at what point do we lose sight of the original mission? Right. And that's my struggle with Franklin Graham and Samaritan's Purse. And now Edwards prime to take it take it over and Edward seems like a great guy. I don't know him personally. But another great example is I and this is not in the show, but I grew out. I didn't grow up. Sorry. I spent six years on Maui lived in Maui. No, the firefighters there. I'm a big surfer. So I love Maui. The Lahaina fires were horrific, right? Two of my good friends are firefighters at the airport. And as Lahaina was burning Samaritan's Purse took one of their their massive cargo planes from North Carolina and flew over landed in at the airport in Kahlua. And they offloaded water and a couple pallets of other things. And the first person off the plane was the staff photographer and then Edward Graham. And it was a photo op. We're here guys, but you spent how many thousands of dollars, tens of thousands and fuel just for that photo op, dude. Like just there's so many good organizations on the ground in Maui that you could have been like, hey, go to Costco, buy it out. Samaritan Purse will give you the money. We'll give you the money. Exactly. But it's all about and same thing in Alaska. Like I was there. I was standing there waving flags as these veterans got off. A lot of them injured, you know, missing legs and I give a massive respect for that. But the first person off that plane, that private plane was their photographer. And I'm in the film industry. I get it. But it's like you guys have built this, this marketing asset similar to the LDS church. We give a billion dollars away, but that's the carrot you dangle to raise hundreds of millions Samaritan's Purse and billions the LDS church. Right. So you dangle the carrot and then over here is your shiny idol. And Frank, then we got to do better. I agree. And oh, here's the kicker though. You're going to love this. Samaritan's Purse files a 990. Guess what's not on the 990. That whole operation in Alaska. It's not even line itemized. So he's buried it in some other line item. And it's like, dude, your donors don't even know that really exists. What are you doing? That's the kicker. So how much money does Samaritan's Purse bring in a year? They do the shoebox drive. So it throws it off, but their assets, I believe are in the in the billions now. When Christ says, Renner disease are the things that are seizures, Renner to God, the things that are God's. And then in Romans, Paul talks about it like pay your taxes, be a part like don't try to dodge this stuff because it's such low hanging fruit. Why do churches get this exemption? Why do the non-profit why do nonprofits get this exemption? And this is a crucial element for what the government did in 1913 when they defined the nonprofit sector. These organizations were the ones building social security. These organizations were the ones building social capital in their local communities. The government couldn't do it. So the churches and then in the Salvation Army, which is the bedrock of religious organizations in the U.S. But churches and nonprofits help the needy in their local community. Most of them aren't doing that anymore. They're they know. And so why do you get this exemption? You're building brands like like Stephen Fertick, Mormon Church, like a penny on the dollar that is given to you even goes to impact for the needy in your community. So the whole model is just corrupted. And so we're here to bring reform and we're bringing reform at the federal level. Like we are we are we were a small part of a bill that just that's going to be on Trump's desk next month. We're here to legally reform the nonprofit sector. Well, I think that that's a good thing because I don't believe that any church should be worth a trillion dollars. And then members of their congregation being hungry or being abused, being homeless. And not even just members of their congregation, just your fellow man. If you're sitting on that kind of money, then the Bible is very clear not to store up your goods, you know, that you are to if your brother is hungry, you're to feed him. If he's if he's homeless, you're you know, if he's naked, you're to clothe it. Well, and I'll give you their argument. They'll they'll say, well, you know, God gave Joseph a vision in for the famine that was coming. And so he stored up grain and Egypt survived because of it. And that's what the Mormon Church will say. And it's like, OK, well, that was a seven year famine. You've got money. Definitely. No, you got money in perpetuity. Right. And so like, what are you doing? So even their own arguments fail when you put it under a microscope. And so it is idolatry in its purest form. Right. And so I'm going to go back to the positive side of faith and generosity. Christians give enough to solve literally stop gap and solve the top 23 global national social issues, which would go global. The Christian Church can do it. We don't need the federal government to do it. We don't even need the state government to do it. And a great example is child sexual abuse, which is the first episode in season two. State ICACs, which are not there's 61 ICACs in the US, which is Internet Crimes Against Children Task Forces. These are like the leading men and women that are seeing the most horrific abuse to children, but they're they're the front lines to protect our children. The the the the war on drugs on the border gets about 40 billion a year. The national ICACs, so all 61 of these organizations gets 30 million dollars from the Department of Justice. But we're giving how much 40 billion of the war on drugs, 30 million nationally to our state ICACs. That's less than 500 grand for our frontline workers. And so this is what's come from Southern California. That shows you that shows you how our country just does not prioritize the youth. Well, it doesn't prioritize the people anymore. I'm a man of the people. So we are here for the people and the people have the power. And that's what Christ's message was to the body of Christ is this organism, this moving, brilliant organism that supports and uplifts the hurting and the wealthy end up going, you know what? No, I have more than enough to help. And that was the beauty of this organism. Christ said, there's no good teacher, but one, my father. And so everybody was on the same playing field. But what do we do? Humans, human and we build institutions and hierarchies and monarchies. And I think our family go. Yeah. I think our founding fathers were brilliant in regards to this idea of servant leadership. The Bible speaks on servant leadership. But when I look at institutions in the U.S. from government to religion, the models diseased and you talked about this on a podcast that I listened to about reform. And systems need to reform because if systems don't reform, they naturally corrupt. That's right. And so, but the leadership in both religious organizations and in politics do not want reform. No. And, you know, listen, when you talk about the reform, it's just like with the Bureau of Prisons. William Marshall, who is the director of the Bureau of Prisons now, who's doing an amazing job, he has reformed in his year that he's been there. He has changed. It's I believe it's 38 or 39 policies. Wow. There's 300 something policies. His goal is to literally change all of them before his time is up. But in those 38 policies that he has changed, they had never been changed in 164,000 days. Wow. And so what happens? Those systems naturally corrupt without reform. And that's what's happened with the Bureau of Prisons. Yeah. And it's happened with our churches, state governments, the federal governments. Exactly. That's so are you a big part of that? Yes. Season two, an episode is on prisons. So I'd love to come back, come back. And let's talk about that. Because same thing, like, you know, people can come out of those totally revitalized and refreshed and just like out of homelessness, just like out of sexual abuse. You know, it's, it's we are just not here for the people anymore. That's right. And so how do we get America back to the people? Well, I mean, you know, I would love for, I would love for churches to be more involved in the prisons. You know, the scripture tells you don't leave the prisoners behind. And yet you don't have that. You don't have that. Yeah. Well, so going back to those state I-CACs, right? The Christian church could 10 X the funding to state I-CACs and it wouldn't even, it'd be a blip on the gen on the generosity giving. You couldn't even register it. Are we not funding that for fear of what is going to be exposed? I think it's twofold. One, it's just ignorance. People don't even know about the problem. You know, and so that's what we've learned a lot is education is our main priority. Right. Because you don't know what you don't know. Right. So that's priority one, prior issue one issue two is institutions will just just like they say, oh, if we release the Epstein files, you know, government would collapse. It probably would. If that happens, there's so be it. There's a constant for everything you do. So if this information really comes out and it's going to come out in this first episode, major denominations will collapse. The LDS church being one of them. We have so much cover up ritualistic sexual. Here at Christly Confessions. What'd you say? Come to Christly Confessions and do that. Yeah. It's, uh, we have judges. We have temple presidents. We have ward bishops covering up ritualistic abuse. Satanic ritualistic. I want you to expose that right here. Um, can I come back for that? Yeah, we need the episode right here on this podcast. I want you to come and expose once this hits to expand it to expand the audience. I would love to. And this is this is the biggest threat to the future of America in our like I'm a father. It's what it's becoming a father was God saying, okay, it's like this is your gift. Protect her. And, um, yeah, I'm obsessed with protecting the youth obsessed with protecting our youth. And so this is priority one to get America back to the beautiful nation that it was meant to be. Right. Um, but yeah, major denominations, major churches will fall, major pastors will fall because of what we're exposing. As they should, because let me tell you something. You put your hands on a child. I believe there's a special place in hell for you. Hopefully right beside the furnace. Yep. Yeah. And they will. And Christ talks about it's better to wrap a millstone around your neck and jump off a boat. And so here's the kicker. It's an, and there's a big shout out to your audience. If you are a victim or a survivor of that, it's your strength that's going to change all this. And there's been a status quo of silence and a lot of times legal. So a lot of these churches are using NDAs to silence victims. And so we're a small part of brilliant work being done to remove that legal, um, you know, gag. Right. And it's the survivors that are coming forward that are going to change the game on this. And that's what's so cool. I say, you know, all the time that every survivor, for every survivor is an abuser's biggest nightmare. Yeah. And so that's who we're like, I'm so proud of the men and women that have come forward and some were abused at three years old. Some were abused at 17. Some were abused their whole life. But it's their bravery and their spine for justice that's going to change. It gives me goosebumps talking about them because they're so brave. And so if you're out there and you're a survivor, vocalize your, vocalize what's happened because it's, it's you who are going to be the change in all of this. Well, you know, it is a, that is a topic that is very close to me because I am a survivor. Oh, that did happen to me as a child. Um, by a dermatologist that my mother took, took us to when we were children. And I did not ever talk about it until after I was married to Julie and had my children. And then one day it, it just overwhelmed me and I felt the need to tell her because I'd never told anyone and I ended up filing a lawsuit and it's out there. Um, I filed it under a John Doe, which is what the attorney did. Um, and it was against a Dr. Richard H. Crooks who was a dermatologist in Greenville, South Carolina. And I sued him and he was convicted. He entered a no-lo contendent plea. He had to surrender his medical license and, um, acknowledged what he did. Wow. But over the course of that, when the prosecutor there in Greenville, South Carolina looked at the case, the prosecutor went out to my attorney and said, I can't prosecute this case. I've got to remove myself from it. And they asked him why? And he said, because I'm a victim of that same doctor. Oh my gosh. And he had volunteered at the boys home of South Carolina. And had molested. No one knows how many of those young kids that he that he molested. Um, but it took a long time to get the courage to talk about that. And then I remember, I remember the hurt that my mother had and that my dad, the anger that he had. Um, but shame is like cancer. The more you feed it, the more it grows. And when people take accountability of their life and their story and their narrative, every story is different. What someone has to go through is different. How someone processes it is differently. Um, but he was a, an individual that was a person of trust. He was a doctor. I remember growing up, my mom used to say, you trust doctors, police, the fireman and your teachers. Those are people that you trust. Well, if you look across the news every day, it's a doctor that has molested a child. It's a police officer that has committed a crime like that or a fire. Everything that she told me to trust in all of those careers have now been tarnished by sexual deviance that had been a party to them. So I don't tell my kids to trust anyone. I tell my kids to trust guide and ask for God to give you proper discernment. And I said, and, and, and I say it. I said, listen, first of all, if you're dealing with my kids is not going to be with a man period and especially one that ain't never been married. Cause I think it's sketchy as hell if you're 50 years on you and you ain't been stupid before that. Um, so I'm not going to have that. I don't have that around my kids. I've been very protective of them. And now, you know, why I've been so protective because I was determined that it was not going to happen to my children. Yeah. What had happened to me. And, you know, there were people in our church that it came out years later that was accused of sexual assaulting his grandchildren and went to prison for that. So it does happen and it was happened. It's been happening all these years, but people were so much better at it then and shaming you and you in the church, knowing that what's happened to you is wrong. You're so ashamed. You don't want it to come out. Yeah. Well, and this is a big, when you look at, and this is going to be a broad brush statement, but when I look at churches and I go to all flay flavors of churches in America, I've probably been to 2000 at this point, whether that be Orthodox, Catholic, Baptist, Presbyterian, charismatic. I just, I love going to churches because I call it the kaleidoscope of Christianity. You have your shepherds on stage and then you have your sheep, so to speak, in the! And I can't stand that analogy because there's only one shepherd. That's right. Scripturally. That's right. But we've placed the ethos of Christ on the shepherds on stage. And they're not the chosen one. They're not even Joel. That's right. And so, but we... Why you got to come from my friend? No, I'm not. I'm just like, I'm just saying even Joel, he's not the chosen one. We're not. And he will tell you that. I know he will. That's why I'm like, that's why I said Joel. Stephen Ferdig, I think a little bit different, but because everybody has to stand up when Stephen walks into a room. Well, that's ego. Yeah. And then you can't call him Stephen. You have to call him pastor. And... Well, maybe he's looking for confirmation for that. Yes. But so the reason why I'm bringing up this analogy of shepherd and sheep is the institution has created and it's no fault of anybody's. It's no fault of any pastor. The 14 point checklist, which was created in the 50s is what's created our institutional churches today. And that's the mosques look exactly like the Christian churches now, just different skins on the outside. Right. But so what it's done is it's put the true power of the body of Christ into the pews and said, you sit there and we're going to entertain you from the stage. And just through precedent over decades, we've turned this active body of Christ into individuals that just want to be, that are ready to be entertained. I'm going to tuck my child into childcare. I'm going to grab a coffee and donut. I'm going to sing some beautiful songs. Right. And I'm going to listen to an inspiring message and leave. And we've just knee-capped the power of the body of Christ. And I said this on another podcast, Christianity is dangerous. True Christianity is dangerous to power structures. Absolutely. Look what it did to Rome. And in a couple hundred years, it transformed the greatest superpower of its time. Well, you know, we're now having a resurgence in faith with the younger generation coming back to the scripture and, you know, coming back to worshiping. And I'm grateful for that. But if we're not careful, it's not going to be the blessing that we're all sitting here thinking that it is. Dude, you nailed bullseye. Because, you know, you have to look at it and just say by the grace of God, go you and I. And for so many decades now, it's been by the grace of God and I fought and me. Faith cannot be a me service. Faith has to be a we service. And you can't live in fear and then claim faith. So, you know, I believe that there's so many false prophets that are walking around every day. I don't listen to them. You know, I know what I know based on what I grew up with. I know right from wrong. I know that my Lord is my savior. I know that Jesus died on the cross for my sins. I know when I have sinned and I have sought I have sought forgiveness for that. But I also believe that it is on us, this generation to bring the younger generation in, but in the right way. Because the Bible is very clear on what we should be doing. And as my mother has said many times, if you believe one part of it, you got to believe all of it. You know, this is not some lottery where you can just pick and choose what you want to believe. You either believe in the Bible in its entirety or you don't. I choose to believe. And you know, if I spend my entire life worshiping God and I die and he does not exist, I've lost nothing. But if I die and spend my whole life shunning him and I die and he's standing there, then I've lost everything. So you know, I thank you for coming on today, but this is not our last podcast. Yeah, thank you. As much as I fought against trying to get it in here and asking Lakin, when is this going to happen? Do I have time to do this? And, like I said, she was so great about continuing to push things to me. But now I'm kind of I've gone down that dark hole. Once you go down the rabbit hole, it's hard to. Yes, it's hard to go back. So I want to follow. I mean, not that because I'm Southern Baptist, I'm not I'm turning a blind eye to what the Southern Baptist do because I know that we've got some not attracted people there too. But we don't have a trillion dollar empire either. So I am going to be focusing on the Mormons. So when can you come back? Is episode one of season two drops in June? So I'd love to come back and we can talk all things. Ritualistic abuse, saving children, protecting our children. We're going to drop names. Oh, I'll drop names. I have Manila folders of faces and names. I love that. You know what? Maybe we can do on Chris the Confessions. What can't be done in D.C. with the Epstein files? I would love to do that. Yeah. So let's do that here. Awesome. Well, thank you for having me. God bless you, brother. God bless you. Thank you. Until then, next week. This is the mindset. Free. This is the mantra. Free. This is the. I'm. With movies like Titanic, Green Girls and Gladiator. Are you not entertained? And TV shows like Survivor, SpongeBob SquarePants, The Fairly Odd Parents and Ghosts. Pluto TV is always free. Pluto TV stream now. Paynever.