Hello everyone, this is OmniTalk Retail. I'm Chris Walton and we are coming to you live once again from the Retail Technology Show in London from the Vusion Podcast Studio. It's day two of the show and standing next to me is Muriel Naber, the Director of Technology, Delivery and Transformation at River Island. Muriel, did I get that all right? You did. I know it's a big, long title. It probably just means the same thing. I do a lot. You do a lot. Yeah. I've noticed actually the titles over here are a little bit longer than in the States, too. It's been it's been a it's been a trend, a growing trend here at this show. But but all right. So I want to get your career history because it's pretty fascinating. And, you know, you work for River Island. My first introduction to River Island, believe it or not, was on a trip to Galway in 2001. So, you know, the brand goes back a pretty long ways at this point. So tell us, how did you come to be in your current role at River Island? It's quite a long history. Okay. And I have jumped about a bit, which I don't think is a bad thing. No? If I told my younger self, I'd say don't worry about it. Yeah. A lot of people like to stay in jobs for a long time. 100%. But I actually started out in hospitality. Okay. So completely different, non-tech. Okay. And in those days, everything was very paper-based. Yeah. Fax machines. Right. Right. Yep. Yep. Yep. But it gave me the opportunity to really get to know customers. Okay. And that's at the center of me, my heart, and everything that I do. And then as I moved through hospitality, I wanted to run a hotel and show that women could do that and be general managers because it was a very male-dominated industry. And I thought that would take me years and years and years. And I did it, and I was like, oh, what do I do now? And I was fortunate enough that I joined a pub company, and they brought me into the project management world. That's right. I've never seen that on your resume. Yeah. And I started to design bar and pub concepts. and had great vision and foresight and spoke with lots of customers about what was missing in the industry and was able to design and launch those. So that brought me into project management world. And they were very nice and they put me through all the normal sort of Prince 2 qualifications and all of that. And then through the crash, I got made redundant. And so I was looking at lots of different opportunities. During that time, I'm not the sort of person to stand on my laurels. So I actually trained to be a driving instructor. Okay. A bit random. Right, right, right. I had to fill my time. Yeah, right. And one-on-one customer. Still customer-centric. Right. And then I was very fortunate to join Matches Fashion back in the day with Tom and Ruth Chapman. Fabulous, fabulous brand. And they were starting their journey from moving just from bricks and mortar into an online business. And I joined to launch that online business. Okay. My first foray, my first deadline that I had to meet, I had three months. They told the city when they were going to go live. So I was like, blah. Oh, wow. Feet to the fire. Absolutely. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But we launched a day before. All right. Nicely done. Nicely done. Absolutely. And that journey has then brought me to where I am today. Got it, got it. I'm curious because you mentioned it. When was the last time you actually sent a fax? In my hotel life. Yeah. In your hotel life? Yeah. Yeah. It was a while ago, huh? It was a while ago for me, too. Yeah, I haven't sent a fax in a while. Okay, so interesting career. So, you know, you started out in the pub business, you said, in a very male-dominated business. Now you're in tech, too. I mean, that's still a pretty male-dominated business as well. Yes, but I didn't join it for the same reason. Right. So, male-oriented, very much in the engineering space, very much CIO, that sort of level. I've never really had aspirations to become a CIO or a CTO. Yes, I could probably do the job. But my passion is about transformation. It's about making a difference. It about delivering a different experience from a customer point of view And the technology that enables that to take place And that really I love the pressure I love juggling 20 plates all at the same time because there is so much to do within a short period of time I find that with my first interviews of the day too. The people that carry that type of mentality are usually the ones that sign up to be interviewed first on the day of a conference too. So kudos to you for that. Well, I'm not a morning person. Oh, you're not? No, no, no. It's funny. That's funny. All right. So I want to get to that transformation side of things, because, you know, what is interesting about your career is you have had a very varied career across many different industries. So I'm curious, as you think about, you know, performing or actually let's maybe executing the right word, executing large scale transformations in retail. What is it that you can understand about how to do them well based on the perspective of seeing and being in many different industries throughout your career? I think it's changed over time. At the beginning, it was very much technology-led. So technology decided that we needed to do X or we needed to do Y, and they just steamrolled ahead. And if the business didn't get on board, so be it. It didn't matter. Technology ruled. But over time, it's the opposite way around. So now we are very much product-led, business-led. It's the business strategy that drives the technology to enable that business outcome. And therefore, again, always back to the customer and that customer experience. Yeah, that's seemingly like the theme of the show, actually, is what you just mentioned there. Why do you think we lost sight of that as an industry for so long? I think probably because we didn't really invest much time or money within understanding our customers. We just expected them to shop. and obviously that up until the 90s that was bricks and mortar so we concentrated on stores and how we put our product out on the floor shop floor and then all of a sudden with web and online technology had to then take over and deliver that experience in an online capability and so technology became the center of the work that retailers had to undertake right and it's hitting us every day in our own lives too so it's it's kind of palpable and front and center and how we're just seeing everything transpire you know on a daily basis as well which puts puts pressure on us internally too in organizations i would think you're shaking your head yes at this moment in time i think we are at a pivotal moment yeah really pivotal because i think technology is going to become really exciting again um i think over the past i don't know five eight years we've gone on a journey, don't get me wrong. So we've gone from monolith through composable to unified. I'm now in the connected space. Okay. Okay. And it really excites me. Okay. But I still think it's got to be based on customer, customer experience and how we're going to serve that up. Yeah. And I imagine the motif there that you didn't mention is AI and all the excitement around that. So, and all the urgency that comes around that too. So how do you balance in your role at River Island, how do you balance the foundational aspects of what's required from a technology perspective when you go back to the customer with the urgency that's out there around just how quickly everything is changing, particularly with AI or any other technology? I think the first foray is about understanding AI and its capability and what it can do. So I think retailers are sort of doing a little bit of trial and error, but driving efficiency from really improving on their processes and getting the benefit from AI first and foremost and trialing it there. Once they're confident in that area, I think then they'll start to bring it into a customer-facing set of technology. For me personally, I love the idea of what an agent can do in terms of bringing everything together so that I as a customer always thinking I love shopping always thinking from a customer point of view I want agents to be able to do all of this stuff behind the scenes to make my experience absolutely seamless absolutely frictionless so I can go and buy from multiple brands, put them all in one basket, and press buy. Dangerous for my bank balance, but much easier from a customer. But that excites you. Oh, 100%. It excites you. Yeah, right. Well, so how do you anticipate or what initiatives do you anticipate will really impact your business over the next three to five years? What are you trying to accomplish and how do you think AI is going to play a role in that? So in the transformation that we're undertaking at this moment in time, we're replatforming e-commerce. Oh, wow. With that, we've got to improve our data. data has got to be at the heart of this because if your data isn't in the right place informing the search and discoverability of your products through all of these agents that are out in the big wide world people aren't going to just come to your website they're looking on socials the next generation shops completely different they interact very very differently and so therefore you've got to be present and discoverable anywhere and everywhere hopefully they will then start to understand your brand and become loyal to your brand and they will then come to your brand rather than going through any other platform but ai is going to lend itself so get your data first and foremost so our product data and the descriptions people aren't looking for products and searching for products in the same way nope so you've got to be able to inform them and make sure that people can find your products so data first and foremost okay your products are out there um then i think and I've been harping on about it for a couple of years now. I'll help you. Voice. Voice? So making it easier. Okay. So there are some brands out there that have launched shopping assistance, and that's the first step. And things like Alexa and things like that. So you can look for your recipe. Yeah. And it should then now be able to talk you through that recipe and pause it at the relevant amount of time. So time to prepare and mix something. time for it to go in the oven and cook and then bring you back to the next step in your recipe in making a dish. Right. And that comes into retail world. Okay. So if I'm browsing for something, I want to be able to talk. Okay. So agent serves me up a load of products. Would you like to buy that? Yeah, add that to my basket. Data holds my sizes, all of that information on me in my device, so it adds the right size. it knows that it's available because the agents have squirreled away in the background so it can add it to my bag because I'm going to be able to buy it. Then it might offer me a complimentary item. Do you want to look at something to go with that? A top, a bottom, a pair of shoes, a handbag, whatever. And I can say, yes, please, show me some other. And it's all voice activated. So that's your vision of this. I know you have more you want to say too, but so that's your vision of it. So if I'm to read between the lines then, so you're saying you want to improve the data on the site, You're replatforming this site. You want to get it ready for basically an LLM-type interaction that can be activated by voice. You're the first person I've talked to that's actually said that. I've heard the first part of that, like activating LLM search on my site, but not really going the voice route. You think there's a need there? Yeah, 100%. All right. We're adding in search and merch as well, capability. And that product that we've bought has got voice coming later this year. Okay. So I'm super excited. Okay. All right. I would be an earlier doctor. Yeah, yeah, definitely. You definitely will be. Yeah, you definitely. Was that it? Did I mess up your flow there? I think you said you had three things. Was that all of them? No, no. No, there's one more, right? Okay. The third thing is integrations. Okay. Because if you think about the shoppers of the future, they want all of that information in real time. It's got to be at the end of their fingertips. And if you don get performant integrations enabling that you going to fail at the first hurdle so integrations integrations data integrations data and which integrations are most key for success are you thinking like inventory like availability shipping speeds although all that type of data that needs to feed into the questions the customer is going to ask about the purchase 100% okay all right got it so it gives me that choice but the other thing that I think technology is lagging behind on and has done for years is returns. Yes. Retailers don't want to encourage returns. And I understand completely why it costs us a lot of money to process a return. But at the end of the day, sizes are so disparate across clothing, shoes, and things like that. People often buy two sizes, three sizes, so they're going to return. Yep. But the returns process is absolutely bleep, bleep, bleep. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, it's a problem that we have not figured out yet fully. And I don't know that we ever will, quite honestly. It's a tricky one. cargo with Uber. Yes, I just read about that this week. Yes. So they've been trying that over the past year or so, where you can literally curbside pickup and they will take your return wherever it's got to go or go and post it, take it to Western Union or whatever it is. Yeah, right, right. And I think that's first step, still not making it super easy, and especially for people like me that live in the middle of nowhere. No, no. So it's hard for me to return. Yeah, and it's still costly too, you know, it's still a lot of cost to associate with that. All right, well, let's get you out of here on this. So I'm curious. This is always a fun question. Let's say we're here again. Let's say it's 2027. We're at RTS. And hopefully I get the privilege of interviewing you again and you get the privilege of attending this conference again. What do you hope that you accomplish one year from now in your job? What do you hope you could be talking to me about one year from now that you're really proud of? A, the transformation's got to have landed. Re-platforming that site successfully. Yeah. And that aligns to the business strategy. Right. And that we've then decided what, having enabled River Island, it's then what are we going to do next? River Island doesn't have a loyalty program. So I'd like to see us taking that next step and really driving personalization. So that, for example, dynamic pricing. So that if you're browsing and I'm browsing for the same products, I'm a frequent shopper. you're not a frequent shopper, but I want to incentivize you to become a frequent shopper, your pricing might be different from my pricing. So I start to really personalize things for us as we're shopping. Even just loyalty schemes, like, you know, just differences in loyalty schemes. Yeah, no, yeah, yeah, yeah. There's so many different things you can do, particularly in the digital space, yeah. And experiences. So in some respects, I think I'm going back to the 80s and the 90s where we were starting to curate experiences and things like that. But you think about the next generation. Do they know how to put an outfit together for a job interview? Do they know how to put an outfit together for a wedding or a function or whatever? So bringing that sort of thing to life. We do it with beauty so you can go and get makeup lessons. And they look at that sort of thing on TikTok and things like that. So why not bring that to life? And if you can do that in bricks and mortar, how do you then translate that into online world or app world? so all of that sort of engagement personalization experience from a customer has got to come well it sounds like it sounds like you've got a really fun job and a lot on your plate too so i'll be watching very closely to see how you pull it off and hopefully hopefully we'll get a chance to interview you again next year so thank you for your time today it's a real pleasure and i really enjoyed this conversation to set the table for day two of the retail technology show So thank you to the Retail Technology Show and Diffusion as well for making our coverage of this event possible. And on behalf of all of us at OmniTalk, as always, be careful out there.
