Art is the last thing people need and art is the first thing people stop buying if economically there is some issues. If you are in it for long term, it's like with the stock market one year can be great and other little bad but next year is better. Hi, welcome back to How much can I make? The podcast about jobs and careers. I'm your host, Mirav Ozeri. Before we start today's show, I want to tell you that next week's episode is with a death investigator and trust me you do not want to miss this one. Today, I chat with sculptor Alex Quentin and his wife Barbara about turning creativity into a real business and running it as a team. Alex works with metal and his sculptures can be found at the MoMA, the Jimmy Carter Presidential Library and museums and galleries around the country. We talk about the business of art escaping communist Czechoslovakia, gallery commissions and what it really takes to make it as a working artist in America. So let's hear it from them. Barbara and Alex, thank you so much for doing it for one thing. I really appreciate it. It's time, you know. God. Nice to have you here. Thank you. So you deal with the marketing and you help Alex in the design. Yes, Alex has a all art career before we met. But once we met, I already had several years experience of working as an entrepreneur. So we talked and decided that it would be interesting to enter art business together. I of course pursue more education which was required to do art business. Okay. Okay, Alex. So you the artist. Yeah, I am the artist. And first of all, I would like to thank you to make the interview and somehow to get closer to the life of artists who came from far away and try to make his American dream. Okay. This is what I want to hear about. You actually started, you were born and raised in Czechoslovakia. That's correct. Both of you, correct? Yes. Were you an artist in Czechoslovakia? Absolutely. Yes. But what was your trajectory like? Where did you start? I always want to be an artist. But my father, he was in a construction business engineer during the real war. And he said, no, you don't want to go to the art school right away. You're going to go to technical school. You're going to learn craft. You're going to learn how to work ethics and everything. After the school, you become like a foreman in a shop. But what did you study in a technical school? That was engineering. Engineering. Okay. Engineering construction and engineering. And working with the metal. That's why later everything started evolving from the previous education, which I was thanks to my father. He pushed me to do the technical school. After that, I was lucky and I was admitted to Art Academy in Prague, where I studied for six years, sculpture and industrial design. So, after that, you were an artist in Czechoslovakia? Yes. I graduated from the Art Academy and become master of fine art. I was allowed to work as a freelance artist and have a government commission. That time Czechoslovakia was a communist country and the government owned everything. This means only people from the highest education, from the Art Academies, which was actually three Art Academies in Czechoslovakia for 15 million people. Only three Art Academies. And because the education in that time was for free, this means after I graduated school, all the artists, which they finished the Art Academy in Czechoslovakia, they have guaranteed work because the government paid for their education. This means you have to work back for the government. But you get paid for it? I was paid very well because the communist system, everybody knows that time, I'm talking about 70s or 60s, 70s this time, East European, East Germans, Soviets, they were the greatest athletes, they were the scientists, they were artists because it was some kind of propaganda and the government supported people. So what made you come to America? Because I realize I make the money, but I don't have a freedom. What do you mean you had to do pieces that they told you what to do? Absolutely. If you have a government commission, you have a Communist Party member who oversee and be sure it's not against their ideology. You cannot do whatever stuff you want. So what dream did you have? What kind of pieces you wanted to do that you couldn't do there? First of all, when you are young, you want to travel. No traveling. They don't let the people travel. Was maybe to the other socialist communist country in Europe, but that's it. I want to travel. What made you decide and how did you do it to move from Czechoslovakia to America? Okay, I am big time skier and I was lucky to get the first time I go there. I return back. Okay, next year was not even next year. That was basically the same here because we were skiing in February March and in summer I have another opportunity to go to Mallorca, Spain. To do what? Just for vacation. Then I go for the permission and it was like a police department, some kind of visit. No, you cannot go twice a year out of the country. And they say no. Okay, next year again with the same group of skiers, I go to Austria and I come back. I said that's it. I'm not coming back. So from Austria you went to where? That time that was with my first wife. Then we went to Austria to American Embassy and we said we are refugees. We don't want to come back. We would like to go to the United States. And they say okay, 11 months we were there in Austria waiting for that vetting process to be complete and we came here as legal immigrants and basically we have a green card and after five years I become American citizen. So you came to America. You are not known here. You are known in Czechoslovakia as an artist. How do you start working as an artist here? I don't start working as an artist for myself. I start working as a fabricator for other sculptors. I start working in a metal, steel, bronze, copper, water. The previous education in the middle school when I had to weld, how to blacksmithing, calculation of the strength for the material. That helped me when I came over here and I find a job in that company in a Brooklyn. The company which he mentioned, I think the grandfather started that company and when the son took it over it was a metal fabricating company and he wanted to expand into the finer fabrication. So he opened a art fabrication department, meaning fabricating sculptures for other artists. That mine department grow and we start working with very famous people, Robert D'Indiana and Jeff Koons and Larry Bell and others. This means they came with some kind of sketches idea and somebody has to make 10, 20, 30, 50 sculptures from it. This means you cannot just enlarge it, you have to calculate a lot of things in. I know that. Yeah, you went to technical school. Exactly and I am able to provide that for the company and for the artists. And we have a very interesting client that time in the company. Her name was Edwin Assens and he was the granddaughter of Winston Churchill. A lot of talents but a lot of connections, very nice landing, become the dear friends. One day she said look she looks at another sculpture and she says, huh, I don't know, is it my sculpture or is it Alex's sculpture? So when did you go independent? Now I still work for the company. I don't speak any English that time. I try to go in from the gallery to gallery showing the pictures and I make a little small statue. You saw them up there. Nobody was interested. Because all of a sudden now you competing with 100,000 artists in Czechoslovakia you had 150. Exactly. I met the Koons historic and she told me, Alex listen, in New York City is maybe 100,000 artists. From those 100,000 artists maybe 20% have a chance to show in the gallery and from those 20% maybe 5% actually sell. And that was something for me to say wow, I know what I want to do now. I guess not just that but America, Alex came to United States in 1983. And when did you come? I came in 94. Okay. I came after the world revolution. America was a big dream. America and I hope it still is, was a country of impossible opportunities. And he didn't mention that when he was in Austria for 11 months waiting for his legal papers to come to United States he was working as an artist and he completed several commissions and for him it was encouraging like oh my God once I get to United States I'm going to be busy, crazy because he's talented and he has that education. But unfortunately the competition here is completely different because it's not based on education, it's based on oh I decide to be an artist today. So the competition is huge and it's not categorized. Oh this is a master of fine art. That competition I guess he was not expecting that. Everybody here is an artist. But when did you go on your own idea? That time we are talking like in 1990 or something. I live my American dream. I have a beautiful house with big ingrown swimming pool, driving 12 cylinder Jaguar. That was something for the boy from the communist country. That was the dream I traveled and I was there for 20 years. Wow. Wow. Exactly wow and some of those sculptors which I make there what they said Alex what the hell you are doing over here you are sculpting in your own eyes. After 20 years finally I say okay that's it I'm gonna go on my own. So what did you do? You started to do work in your home? Yes I have already a small studio in my home building machine and stuff like that and then I met the Barbara. And then we met I said oh my god you are so fabulous why don't you do more? And he had some small show in New Jersey gallery and here and there and I said I'll support let's try. So we started. What was the first piece you sold? Oh gosh I don't remember because you need to first create really big inventory. And how long did that take? He really started working hard. He was working weekends long times. Once you have five six pieces in sculptures so we already got some contact with some galleries with some showrooms. He started to do his stainless steel sculptures which got very popular. What's your favorite metal to work with? All the stainless steel mostly yeah stainless steel. Why because it doesn't rust and it lasts for? Not just because they rust because the product is very fine. Okay. See a lot of sculptures from the stainless steel they have the rough kind of grind marks. They look like a certain kind of grind marks. With this kind of finish you could hide a lot of imperfection. Right of course. Now if you have a mirror finish every slight imperfection show screams out absolutely. And I'm doing that in mirror finish because not so many artists could do that. Okay got you. So let's back up for a second. What is your process? You have an idea you sketch on paper then Barbara comes into the picture. For now as right now I think we really work closely collaborate almost on every piece. Meaning I'm his very first critic and everything. We got to the point of our business and he's not 28 anymore that whatever comes out of his studio I want to be a wow piece because I know if I bring that wow piece to gallery somebody will go wow and buy it. I don't need him make pieces for inventory. Do you have to go to the galleries yourself or you have somebody representative that goes? No we do directly. You do directly. Years ago when we started that it was really long research like we would go through all art magazines online websites we would pick up some city and we would go and walk through the galleries because you need to make a research if the gallery is suitable for his style of artwork. Remember the first gallery that showed you? I guess Florida. No first gallery was in Jersey. That time we were also going a lot of those art fairs. We talked about like early 2000. Yes. We were in Javits Center and the Troll Bridge gallery from like suburb of Washington they bought whole collection I think was like six sculptures. Wow. They were starting new gallery. You'll probably celebrate. We said oh my god that was something that was this don't happen so often but they want a new work. We were very happy that time we were working with them for several years and slowly the galleries some gallery approached us because they saw the work somewhere you know at that the business grow up. All right. Tell me about the process. You come up with an idea and then what? I make a first drawing and then because the sculptures are three dimensional object I make a three dimensional study from the cardboard paper because the cardboard paper behave like a sheet of metal. You could cut it. You could bend it. You could twist it. So then what you put it together as a three dimensional. If usually when I make the sculpture in a cardboard I have the first idea I make like in a double one parts I glue together an identical part I'm living as a template. If the sculpture come out nice is appealing and have a chance to be made then from the templates by Brahmac AutoCut Drawings we send it to the laser company they cut it the material I pick it up and I have a now material cut and I have a cardboard model in the real size and real sculpture I go for the fine details which are not in a cardboard model. It's not like somebody paid you in advance to do that right? No. So what is your? We do of course custom commissions and those are very well come because first of all like you said you get paid in front and it's really nice challenging. So usually people come to you with a sketch and they say we want that? No. I will have a gallery rep or we created over the years really nice network of designers and architects and they will say hey I have I'm doing this client's house can I send you a picture of the living room I envision something there. So I always require a couple pictures from different angles show me what's around what colors they use what patterns they use and then on computer I just do renderings couple different proposals it can be maybe sculpture which was already done but I just scale it properly maybe just a sketch which he did and I make it on a computer look like it's already sculptor I may do two three proposals just maybe different color different shapes and they pick up. How do you price you tell the clients what it will cost them? You don't know how long it will take to design. We do we do just me and Alex we've been doing this for 25 years so you more or less know price of the metal he knows like how much welding is involved so he can calculate how long it's going to take him and then of course over the years we build up certain price range like on the beginning when you start what they say that when artists ask so how much I'm supposed to charge for a painting they say you should charge per hour how you value your work so you may start at $50 an hour $100 an hour but now Alex worth a lot more an hour exactly exactly but our prices are stable that means like when you have a one sculpture eight foot and it's $40,000 $50,000 it's very rarely that will be another eight footer which will be $150,000 you know what I mean we already have a prices which are stable right now we are represented seven nine galleries all prices everywhere are same okay when it's like almost now I would say by size but you love to work with stainless steel I assume that's expensive right so the prices are of course different aluminum maybe cheaper stainless steel more expensive bronze even more expensive there are even different alloys of bronze but the point is that in the last couple of years and especially now with all the tariffs the prices of metal tripled but because we've been in this business for so long and our prices got to the certain level the prices of material are not as significant because we are self-sufficient which is very important what do you mean by that that we do everything on our own if you need guy who is going to weld it if you need a guy who is going to bend it suddenly you are paying other vendors other people and the cost out of your pocket goes out what is the biggest expense that you have that people don't know about and don't think about commission gallery commission what do they take 50% 505050 yes you see our expression wow 5050% it's a lot but good gallery for the artist could do more than the artist could do for himself yes of course it's a good gallery I said always deserve it because they make a home show they make a they make a all kind of advertising they are outside they work with designers and if me or Barbara would do this kind of work what they doing that then it's not possible so let me ask you something the gallery has 10 of your pieces and they see the two are selling really well do they come to you and say make more like absolutely and you do so what I want to know at what point your art changed from if it did changed from passion to business it did not it did not and I'll tell you for myself it's because he's an artist he works creatively and he's not bothered by the business part at all okay are you the one that is under one so I so tell me about it navigate him like we were talking about okay so he designs the piece he makes the carbon model and now we're going to decide what size we're going to do I know what size we're going to do because I know what gallery is requesting what salt what we need to replace what sizes we need to replace you can be in many levels of art business you can be in different fancy galleries having monthly shows it's beautiful but you may sell or not and then on the end of the month you have to bug your pieces and take it back home right we have a mostly I call it I'm not even sure if it's a proper but I call it commercial galleries that means we are on a permanent exhibition okay okay and you said that people come for custom work and then you still have to pay 50 percent of the I would never if somebody approaches me and say oh I saw your work I would I'm looking for some peace where did you see our work oh I saw it in Palm Beach in a gallery I'm sorry they are doing good job that you saw with there so you have to go through there oh because you don't want to ruin it what am I risking it has worth it to go beyond the gallery we have a gallery of presentations for 25 years we are with another gallery for 15 years you don't want to ruin your long-term relationship and maybe potential great business for another decade just because going behind the back and selling one piece if somebody saw some publication or video and they saw alex work and they come to you and say could you do something like this for me would you still have to pay that in sculpture three-dimensional so usually people like to see it okay we rarely sell online maybe our galleries do but we rarely say online because you know the piece needs to be seen you mentioned before that you have something in the MoMA you have major collectors you have lots of galleries what was the first big break that you got there is never break no I think that was just starving there is never break art is the last thing people need and art is the first thing people stop buying if economically there is a some issues our business is like a stock market this is the podcast for people how much you can make so I'm not going to say which is nothing what is not going to be true if you are in it for long term it's like with the stock market one year can be great another little bad but next year is better and we've created really nice network galleries architects designers so if you spread your eggs between many baskets there is a big chance you will make a profitable year because it comes from so many places you showed the new sold art in Europe and in America what is the difference between the clients in Europe and America do they look for different things do they pay less the market is completely different for some reason America I don't know how it was before just in those three decades I've been here Americans always are buying art in Europe it's maybe the top one person or not even it's maybe you buy a small painting around the couch to the living room here people want to be surrounded by beautiful pieces and not just the home goods but quality high art and we know some European artists you would never make such a good business art business in Europe I know you have some public art in some places what's the process of getting a project like this together Alex did a couple commissions Jimmy Carter presidential library and the 30 town headless horsemen use when I stepped in and I did a research what it takes it's a very extensive process oh it's a completely different level of business most of the time you even have to hire professional proposal writer because the criteria how it's supposed to be written it's very strict you need to detail the cost how much is material how much is the labor how much is packing shipping installation usually involves the union workers it's so complicated it was so complicated but it's still worth having right it is yeah what would you say is the biggest challenge about being a sculptor in America sorry I'll work so the work is the biggest challenge because otherwise everything is here material no problem you could have a space you could have everything but you have to support that financially what's the biggest reward in the public place so in mama or the quarter house like you said returning clients it's like when you meet a client collector and you learn they have a five six seven pieces of yours Alex's portfolio has so many variety styles and sizes so clients come back because they can have a piece which is a tabletop piece or they have a niche or they have a shell they have an empty corner outdoor you do a lot of outdoor outdoor so I guess the best reward is like when somebody comes oh my god like we have five six of your pieces and we love this if you see the people are buying not because it's a huge name but because they love the nice work and they are that's very important and in a custom work the reward is because like I said if I make a proposal on a computer and then we deliver the final product and they go it's a hundred times better we didn't expect it done and it's multiple layers and the colors are show completely different so yeah the vow effect of course that's fantastic what is the dream project that you would like to do what that you didn't get a chance to do yet okay if somebody want to build a new study of liberty and I have all thousands people working on it that's would be probably the dream sculpture what would you like to see him do maybe really one time some commission for really big sculpture we do have the sleepy hollow which is 15 25 feet wow whatever is around 20 feet but something really big when you drive on a highway and you see it from far away all right hopefully we'll drive one day on the highway but for now I just not gonna wood and continue what we've been doing for 25 years together I think it's it has been a good life and good business and your work yeah I mean you know I from drawings you know from designs I do website design all the social media you know all the photography all the publishing all the bookkeeping you know all the proposals I don't know how artists can go to the studio and create and on other side answer emails requests buy stuff it's really too too person job I do admire every artist who is capable of doing as a one person what we do together all right thank you so much and I wish you lots of luck it you did a huge journey from communist Czechoslovakia to being very successful in America in New York American dream could you thank you we are very happy to live in this country of course I'm sure that's it for today and if this made you curious about creative careers head to how much can I make that info and check out the creative career category you'll find more episodes where people break down what they actually do how they got in what the pay is like and you can make educated decision if you want to try it or not so go to how much can I make that info and until then I'll see you next week
