Texas Dems are stuck on identity politics with Senate race at stake

No other organ brings together science and spirituality quite like the human brain. Our thinking is very different from what we have imagined. Studies about the brain are, at heart, studies about ourselves. So why, even after centuries of research, has the brain still remained such a stubborn and elusive mystery? I'm Meghna Chakrabarty. Listen to On Point for our special series, Brainwaves, wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to Left, Right and Center, everybody. I am David Green. You know, it is pretty early in this midterm election year, but believe it or not, the first votes are going to be cast in just a few weeks. This is happening in the state of Texas. And in the lead up, we're already getting a window into some of the dynamics that I think might be taking shape this year. We already have some questions to ask about both parties because things are already seeming messy for both Democrats and Republicans. I mean, we should say Democrats would love nothing more than to steal Republican John Cornyn's Senate seat in Texas this fall. U.S. Representative Jasmine Crockett and State Representative James Tallarico are facing off in the primary next month. Crockett, if you don't know a lot about her, we should say pretty outspoken, a progressive firebrand. And in December, she faced some backlash over a comment that she made to Vanity Fair back in 2024. She told the magazine that Hispanic voters who support President Trump and his immigration policies have a, quote, slave mentality. The backlash from Democratic leaders was swift. Here she is at a debate in January answering a question about whether being outspoken is the right way for Democrats to win. I think that I will do the edgy things, the things that the political consultants will never tell you to do. Because right now people are hurting. This isn't about games. It's not about politics as usual. It's not about who sounds as clean as possible. It is about tapping into the rawness of this moment. All right, so Crockett's opponent, James Tallarico, is more subdued, we should say. He often talks about his big tent politics in relation to his faith. Here he is on The View this month. I mentioned that my granddad was a Baptist preacher. And when I was real little, he told me that we're supposed to follow Jesus's two commandments, love God and love neighbor. And I believe forcing my religion down the throats of my Muslim, Jewish, Hindu, Buddhist, atheist, agnostic neighbors is not love. And it's why I've fought so hard for the separation of church and state. All right. But Tallarico has now been accused of making a not so loving comment. A TikToker claimed that he called Colin Allred, his former opponent in the race, a, quote, mediocre black man. So apparently Tallarico was suggesting that he thought that he would be running against Ared and not Crockett, whom he described as a, quote, formidable and intelligent black woman. Ared, who's a former congressman, posted a video expressing his displeasure. If you want to compliment black women, just do it. Just do it. Don't do it while also tearing down a black man. OK, we've seen that play before. We're sick and tired of it. So Tallarico has not denied saying this thing, but he said in a statement to CBS Texas, quote, I respect Congressman Allred. I called him to convey that respect personally and reiterate that I would never attack him on the basis of race. But as CBS Texas reported, some Democrats are already asking, is this what the party wants to be talking about right now? This is Tallarico addressing the controversy during a campaign stop in Dallas. The job of a leader is to try to lower the temperature. try to remind us all that we are on the same team. And my job is to get all of us to keep our eyes on the prize, which is uniting as Democrats to beat the Republicans in November. That is what we should be focused on. All right. And this is where I want to start with Elizabeth Brunig on the left. She is staff writer at The Atlantic. Liz, it is great to have you back. And on the right, we have Will Swainback. He's co-host of National Review's Radio Free California podcast and the president of the California Policy Center. It's great to have you both. I like this combo. Yeah, it's great to be back. Thanks for having us. Liz, let me start with you. I mean, you know, both Crockett and Tallarico, the comments that I was just talking about, they've said that they've been mischaracterized. But nevertheless, like, is this the conversation that Democrats want to be having right now and making headlines if they want to, as Tallarico put it, keep their eyes on the prize? Yeah, I mean, I think that Tallarico and Crockett both gave plausible explanations for what they said. You know, it would be helpful to know more about the conversation that was taking place when Tallarico said what he did, whether there was already discussion going on in the conversation of race somehow. But it's questionable. I don't think he was being malicious, but it's strange to have even brought race into it at all. Same thing with Jasmine Crockett. Again, her explanation was fair. I do think this dust-up reflects the fact that Democrats have not yet resolved these controversial intraparty questions about the role of identity politics in democratic politics going forward. I feel like a lot of Democrats took losing in 2024 as a major rebuke for what they took to be an excess of identity politics over the last few years, especially under the Biden administration. And I think that other Democrats feel like those are just principles you can't compromise on. It's the right thing to do and you can't dispense with it and maintain democratic identity. And so I think that's a real rift. And as you say, that's a tough conversation to be having right now because it highlights the weakness in the Democratic Party at the moment. Yeah, it's so interesting. I mean, Will, I and, you know, as Liz, you were you were pointing to the fact that these are not things to to dismiss or minimize. I mean, they're real interesting questions when it comes to race and identity and all this. And and Will, I just make such a distinction when I think about how race plays into this election or politics right now. You know, I think about President Trump and posting that video on social media depicting the Obamas as monkeys, which is just outright, insanely racist. I mean, Republican Senator Tim Scott said he was praying it was fake because it's the most racist thing he's ever seen come out of this White House. So there's that. And then there's this, which is, you know, there are just some interesting like I don't want to minimize, you know, Congressman Allred saying that this is something he has seen in his life before. a person praising a black woman by trying to take down a black man. And obviously, you know, Jasmine Crockett, you know, suggesting that she was just making an observation about immigrants in our country and the views that they have about President Trump and immigration policy. I wonder how you see this. Like, is it is what you're seeing a weakness in the Democratic Party because this is exposing a vulnerability? I think Republicans in Texas and nationally are celebrating a fight like this because it affirms, as Liz suggested, it affirms, I think, that the Democrats have not figured out how to approach real pressing public policy problems that I think are more fundamental to most voters. But it does work to have this kind of a conversation in a sense in a partisan primary where the policy differences may not be that extraordinary. You're going to elevate these kinds of comments. You're going to make mountains out of molehills to try to separate yourselves. And primaries are always more partisan than general elections. The very features that can help you win the general election are seen as real problems. They can kill you in the primary. And most voters don't really think ahead to what's going to win in the general. So what I think I would ask all voters in Texas to do is think about how you'd like to see the general shape up. Who do you think can win from your party? Is it Jasmine Crockett? Is it James Tallarico? We're going to talk about the Republicans, I guess, in a moment. But they've got the same problem, I just want to point out. I'm not suggesting this is unique to the Democrats. The Republican candidates have roughly the same problem. Liz, is something useful going on here? Like when you say that this is showing that the Democrats haven't figured something out. Like, what is the thing they haven't figured out? And is it important that they figure it out before we get closer to the fall? Yeah, I mean, I think that the conflict going on in the Democratic Party, but also in the left, generally is this question of how central are matters of identity politics going to be to the left's project? you know should that be a major centerpiece of the left's project so all of the left's resources you know when you think about money that's going on to do research and campaigns that are being chosen for donation is all of that going to be aimed at advancing the cause the causes that are normally centered in identity politics so is it going to have to do with race with lgbtq rights Is it going to have to do with, you know, feminism in some sense? But that, you know, that seems kind of died down a little bit, the Me Too push. But are those questions going to be central, our major projects that we pour everything into? Or is there another project that includes identity politics as a tentpole, but is not the majority or central project in the left mission? So I think Tallarico, for example, has tried to make kind of an economic populist pro-labor message, his calling card. And I mean, I love that. I would love to see more of that among Democrats. But I think Crockett is right that we live in a time of really extremist politics. And Democrats are not only chastened, they're mad. And Crockett channels that very well. But I mean, as Will was saying, there's sort of a mirror image of that going on right now with Cornyn and Paxton. And if I could just jump in, I would say that there's, I think, an equally perhaps more fundamental question the Democrats are wrestling with, and that is the problem of the economy. You've got, you know, the Ezra Klein and Derek Thompson on the one side talking about abundance, which is roughly translated into the conservative idea of supply-side economics with some of these other tentpoles, as Liz might describe them. It's not incompatible with talking about problems of race, but it is, to me, really central. And then you've got, you know, somebody like Zoran Mandami in New York talking, you know, about really embracing collectivism, I think he said. and you've got real government solutions being proposed over there from the far left. And in California, this is what we see all the time. There is an extraordinary conflict between progressives who understand the problem of supply side. We've got to produce more housing. We're going to talk about that later. How do we really bring down energy prices for people? These are the things that really, I think, count to most Americans. It really is, as Clinton famously said in the early 90s, it's the economy, stupid. I think this transcends almost everything. Trump will get away with posting absolutely repellent videos on social media if the economy booms. I'm not happy about that. I'd like to have both things. A more temperate president would be nice and a booming economy. The Democrats, this is their campaign season to lose. If they screw up and get deep in the well on identity politics and accusing one another of this kind of stuff, they are not going to be focused on the things that 80 percent of Texans and Americans care about, the economy. But I just I just want to listening to you both. It feels like one way to look at this primary in Texas and primaries in general, perhaps. But but at this moment you know the economy and how Democrats bring it up and how they counter what Trump is doing and how they counter what Republicans are doing going to be really important this fall But what I hear you both saying is that a primary can be kind of a laboratory for different styles of candidates And Liz as you were saying like, you know, Crockett saying, I'm, I'm going to speak my mind, I'm going to tell it like it is. And if that goes to a place of identity that makes you uncomfortable, like I'm going to lean into that. It's important for Democrats to figure out if that is a style that is going to work and who they want to be and what kind of candidates they want to field as we get to this fall, which seems to be something valuable that might be going on here. I think so. And I think it's in competitions like the ones between Crockett and Tallarico that Democrats across the country are really going to be able to make it known what they would like the Democratic Party to do if they embrace that message that's about labor and the economy and affordability, or if they, you know, sort of improve upon what they had been doing, let's say, under Biden, which is, you know, identity politics, but perhaps they do it in a more diplomatic way, or they try to limit the sort of use of cancellation tactics that seem to make everyone so upset. And I guess this is where they'll get to make those decisions. I think the New York City mayoral race, as you mentioned, it was another opportunity for Democrats to maybe sort through what principles they were interested in. And Mondani's message that was primarily about housing, the economy, and taking care of New Yorkers who are struggling, as opposed to foregrounding any identity politics issue. I think it demonstrated a real appreciation for what might be something like Tallarico's approach. Yeah, I think that the problem for Crockett is that what she proposes to be, which is, I'll just say it, the Marjorie Taylor Greene of the left, she's a loudmouth. She is so divisive in polling that she could win the primary very easily. There's a lot of outrage out there, as Liz said, and those people may see Jasmine Crockett as their sword bearer. But the fact is that she is so divisive in polling that there were rumors when she announced in, I think it was in the summer when the first polls came out from the GOP. You might remember this, guys, that there were rumors that the Republicans were trying to trick her into running so they could clobber the Democrats in this race. That's how I think off-putting her style is. And she's not a public policy person. This is not a person who's going to fix the economy. There's not a person who's going to get into the nuts and bolts of housing regulation or something. She famously stood up and accused a bunch of Republicans of having accepted money from Jeffrey Epstein. And it turns out that she had the wrong Jeffrey Epstein. It was some other poor guy running around with the same name who's a big Republican donor. So I think, you know, I'm just I would ask my friends who are Democrats, especially those in Texas, beware. The person who gives, I think, amplification to your id may not be the person who's going to win in the general election. All right. We're going to take a break and come back and talk about the Republican side of the Senate race in Texas, because I think we're learning some things about the Republicans as we are about the Democrats in this in this moment as we head towards the primary in Texas. Liz Bruning, Will Swain and I will be right back with more Left, Right and Center. All right, we are back with more Left, Right and Center. I'm David Green with Will Swaim on the right and Liz Brunig on the left. We've been talking about primary season in a midterm election year because votes are going to be cast in the state of Texas in a few weeks. We spent some time moments ago on the Democratic primary race. I want to take a look now at the Republican primary race for the same Senate seat because there's also an intraparty divide between the GOP's establishment and insurgent wings of the party, which I think is really fascinating to talk about. Just the background here, you have incumbent Republican Senator John Cornyn, who really is fighting for his political life against a challenge from state attorney general and Trump ally Ken Paxton. Early voting starts next week. The president has not made an endorsement yet. GOP donors are watching nervously, I think, as this race gets more expensive and more competitive, especially because now you have a third candidate, State Representative Wesley Hunt, who is also in the mix. Hunt, like Paxton, is friendly with the MAGA crowd. Cornyn, meanwhile, at times lost favor with President Trump. One of those times was 2022 after he worked with Senate Democrats. Go figure, bipartisanship. He was working with him to craft a bipartisan gun legislation bill in the aftermath of the Uvalde school shooting in Texas, and that hurt him politically. More recently, Cornyn has tried to cozy back up to the president. Here's a clip from the video that he shared announcing his reelection campaign. We're especially grateful to your wonderful senators, John Cornyn and Ted Cruz. Now I'm running for reelection and asking for your support. So President Trump and I can pick up where we left off. President Trump and I can pick up where we left off. He wants to paint a picture of being super cozy with the Trump White House. Will, what do you think? Is that still the winning playbook here? or have we reached a point with the political landscape that maybe Cornyn starts to leave some daylight between him and the president and let Paxton be kind of the hardline MAGA candidate? Well, I'm not a political consultant, just a guy in the grandstands, but I gotta tell you, this is, I'm kind of half rooting for a Jasmine Crockett, Ken Paxton showdown. I'll just tell you. Paxton- You just went fireworks. You just wanna go in and go strong. Just to watch the world burn. watch the world burn down. That sounds awful, but I guess. Yeah, I think to answer your question, I think what's really fascinating is the daylight between these two guys, between Paxton and Cornyn, there's almost no daylight. They're really roughly similar characters. Yes, Cornyn actually did work on a gun deal with the Democrats. And he's also, I like him for this, he's a big backer of supporting Ukraine, supporting Israel, supporting Taiwan. I think these are in U.S. strategic national security interests. So naturally, this is going to come down to this big conflict over Ken Paxton's moral baggage and Cornyn's deal with Democrats on guns. Well, I'm hearing you both kind of say that if we get to the fall and it's Paxton and Crockett, that's going to be a crazy sort of campaign full of fireworks. And if it's Cornyn and Tallarico, it might be a more subdued campaign. But if one of the parties puts out their more firebrand candidate, then that benefits the other party. I mean, is it as simple as that? It can't be as simple as that. I mean, it's a good question. There's so much that has changed about the American political landscape and what fuels successful candidacies and electoral victories and what inhibits them. And I think Trump is responsible for shaking a lot of that up. And we're still sort of in the aftermath of that, learning how sort of stacking the deck in favor of these very loud, aggressive voices on the right is going to be a long-term phenomenon or if we're going to sort of equalize at some point. You know, it's funny thinking about a lot of these things. We're not alone because there are actual voters in Texas who are thinking about these very questions and what sort of the primary is going to say about who's running in the fall and getting the right, you know, person in the fight. And of course, Texas has open primaries, which lets people vote on either side if they want to try and orchestrate what the fall looks like. So we actually got this question from one of our listeners. Her name is Julie and she lives in Denton, Texas. Our state has open primaries and I'm trying to decide whether to vote in the Republican or Democrat primary. While I lean conservative, given the way the Republicans have behaved under Trump, I'd rather have Democrats in charge. Voting in that primary, I could support more moderate Democrats who could launch a good challenge. However, in the state as a whole and where I live, the person who wins the GOP primary is likely to win the general election. So maybe I need to have some say about that. What are your thoughts? Which primary should I participate in? Oh my God, which primary should she participate in? Like, I wonder if she is literally thinking here, okay, I'm trying to, I'm trying to get this right. She leans conservative, but she's in a place now where she wants a Democrat to win this Senate seat. I hear her saying, should I vote in the Republican primary to perhaps try and get Paxton to run? Because I think the Democrats have a better chance. What do you both think about voters doing that kind of calculating as opposed to just deciding who they are, what issues are important to them and what really matters? I think it's multi-level chess. And I really, I'm just an advocate of voting for the people you like. That's it. Straight and simple. And I understand the sense among people like the listener. I understand the sense that you want to see more moderation in the Republicans or more moderation and the Democrats, these are the people who are really at play, certainly in a lot of states. Like in California, there are more registered independents than there are Republicans, and they tend to lean conservative, but their independent status is because they really are upset with Donald Trump, and they'd sure like to see a more sensible Democrat. So I think, you know, this goes to my point earlier, that there are really, in these partisan primaries, there is this impulse to vote for the most aggressive candidate rather than the one you think can win in the general. And so I would ask the listener to consider the possibility of who does she think can actually win in that general election and who would best represent her? Is it Cornyn? Is it Tallarico? I mean, she sounds like she's more in one of those two camps than the Paxton or Crockett camp. Liz, what do you think of Julie's primary shopping and what would your advice be to her? It's definitely a very complicated decision-making process. And in some sense, this has always been the case for people living in red states. I was born and raised in Texas, and there's always the question of, I mean, you know, at the end of the day, you're going to be governed and represented by Republicans in all likelihood. And there have been differences in the past, but in all likelihood, you're looking at Republicans. So do you want to have some say in which Republicans are chosen? Or do you want to use your vote in a more direct and expressive way? This is who I like. This is what I believe in. That's what gets my vote, regardless of, you know, whether that ultimately influences, in the end, how you're governed. And I think that's a very complicated and difficult, thorny line of reasoning. And I think, you know, maybe now more than ever, I think a lot of people are feeling very dissatisfied. with what the Trump administration is doing at the moment. And I think people don't know how to make their votes matter. And that is especially the case when you're living in a red state. All right. You're listening to Left, Right and Center from KCRW. We've been talking about the midterm election season getting underway in Texas. And I want to turn now from politics to actually some policymaking, because something strange seems to be happening in Washington. I don't know if you all remember this thing that used to happen in bygone times when there'd be a bill signing ceremony at the White House and you would see lawmakers from two different parties celebrating passage of something. I don't think we've seen that in a long time. But now this unheard of thing is unfolding in Congress right now. Legislators passing legislation, actual bipartisan legislation, solving real problems collaboratively or so it seems this week, the house passed a bipartisan package called the housing for the 21st century act It meant to boost housing supply make housing more affordable for Americans which has been a real concern for a lot of people What's better, it's not the only housing bill Congress is working on because the Senate has been busy as well on its own bipartisan package. In the fall, they passed something called the Renewing Opportunity in the American Dream or Road to Housing Act. So there is meaningful overlap in these two versions, which means that there could be the Senate and House coming up with an actual bill that could go to the president's desk. The two chambers are going to have to reconcile their differences. And already there's some concerns expressed by the White House that some things are not in there that they would want. But this feels like it could actually happen. So I want to break down some of the policy first. I mean, well, let's begin with you. As you look at these pieces of legislation, do you see a path to a real compromise bill that would make life easier for Americans who are seeking to buy homes? I join you in cheering bipartisanship on this. It is good to see people get together on a problem that really matters. The challenge in America is this is one of those policy questions where less government might be the real solution. We have federal incentives that drive people to own homes because of mortgage deductibility and that sort of thing. And then we have massive Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac programs that are really sort of rejiggered or configured in the same way to drive more demand toward housing. And at the same time, we have local statutes, state and local regulation that almost have shut down housing. In California, for example, you can't hammer two boards together here without getting, you know, running into an environmental lobby. So we have nimbyism, and that's not only on the left here in California. I just want to be really clear. What's clamping down on supply, and that is the problem at the local level, is this kind of nimbyism, this not-in-my-backyard stuff, where people are really concerned about seeing more homes, more apartments in their communities. And the result is, while supply shrinks, demand is skyrocketing, prices go up, and everybody says, we got to subsidize people so they can buy more houses. And that's simply inflationary. So if this final package actually includes any of that kind of stuff, if we're going to start handing out federal money to people so they can buy a home, we're just going to see prices soar beyond the reach of people. It'll make people's eyes pop out compared to what we see today. Liz, I'm wondering what you think of what Will just said, because I'm sitting here trying to celebrate this. This is absolutely something that Congress should do, and they should be doing their jobs and get a bill to the president's desk. But Will seems to be saying that maybe this shouldn't be Washington's job, and this is a problem that should be left to local communities and states. Yeah, I mean, you know, there are certain provisions in these bills, if I understand, that have to do with the loosening of regulations in certain areas. And, you know, this is not dissimilar from, as you mentioned earlier, my colleague Derek Thompson and Ezra Klein's recent campaign of abundance, which has to do with sort of producing a whole lot of everything by getting rid of red tape and regulations. So I'm sure that they see a lot of themselves in this bill. And I'm in favor of anything that could help, even just marginally, because I think the housing crisis is serious. It's major. It's important. I'm 35. I have friends who tell me that they can't start families because they don't have housing. They live with their mom and dad, or they live in a super small studio apartment with their spouse. and there's just no way to get a family going. I talk to people my age who have just said, generally, I can't start my life because I can't get ahold of a house. I can't even begin to do the stuff like looking for a mate and thinking about a family. And so I think it is a huge quality of life issue. It's causing major social disruption. And at the same time, I have questions about obviously reducing regulation in terms of safety. And one wonders if abundance style approaches to housing do, as some people on the left say, worsen affordability by sort of favoring profits and housing market speculation. And so I actually think it makes quite a bit of sense what Will is saying, which is, you know, it doesn't necessarily make a lot of sense to give people money to buy houses. But I would love to see more affordable housing, social housing that is publicly owned and that can actually help working class people get into housing. I think that would be great. Liz, can I ask you a kind of blunt question? I mean, I listen to you talking about, you know, friends who are in this very crisis moment needing some kind of relief when it comes to housing affordability. I mean, President Trump and his White House have said that one of the things they hope will be in this bill is a ban on big investment firms on Wall Street being able to buy up single family homes because he wants to make sure that families have the first bite at buying a home. Do you trust the president when he's proposing something like that to help your friends? Well, I mean, no. I have real doubts about that. And he recently said, I believe that, you know, we're going to keep housing prices high. We want to keep the prices of houses high because we don't want homeowners losing a lot of value. And, you know, I think taking that approach to the housing crisis is maybe somewhat counterproductive. Well, what do you think of that proposal? I mean, it sounds sounds ridiculous on its face, but OK, not so helpful in your mind. Yeah, the sorts of investment that Donald Trump is talking about accounts for less than 3% of the total market. It is infinitesimal. It will have almost no impact. The real answer is unleash development. In California, about 5% of the entire population lives on about 5% of the land, and that's excluding national parks and state parks and that sort of thing. So I'm not talking about building in Yosemite. 5% of the total available land. We have the land. The reason the developers aren't building here is because it's just too costly. You get tied up in litigation for 10, 15, 20 years, and you can't build a house. So they go to Texas. They build in Ohio. They build in Tennessee. They build in places that welcome housing. And you know what happens when they build these houses? The price of housing drops for everybody. You can go out and you can build mansions, and the price of affordable housing will drop for lower-income people because as people move up, they vacate apartments. They vacate studio apartments. And I just want to underscore something Liz said that I ought to have. There are tremendous social implications here, Liz. You're right. I have children about your age, not to reveal too much here. but I can tell you, folks in my age category, 40s, 50s, and 60s, we have all of our kids scattering out of California because of this housing crisis. I have four kids, not one of whom lives in California. Why? The lack of affordable housing. That means something for our lives as Americans as we get older. Where are our children? Mine are living literally all over the country and all over the world, trying to find housing that is affordable. It is fundamental. and the first step Washington needs to take is stop pumping up demand. Then they need to insist the states get their act together and stop stepping on the hosepipe of new housing supply. All right. Will Swaim, Liz Bruning, and I are going to take a quick break and we'll be back to talk a little bit more about housing and also turn to what we've been hearing from some of the Olympic athletes who are representing the United States right now in Milan. We'll be back with more Left, Right, and Center. All right, we're back with more left, right and center. I'm with Will Swaim on the right and Liz Brunig on the left. Let's just both step back and just talk about this housing question. I mean, what do you both think is at stake here for families, for people who are watching, you know, what Washington does or does not do? Well, as I said, in California, we're watching our kids move out of the state. And that has direct implications on the quality of our lives as we get older. You know, I'll never forget that among the I guess I'll just say this on air. I've got four kids, not one of whom lives in California right now, all under the age of 40 and under. And why they left? They left because housing is virtually unaffordable for people who are Liz's age. And I can tell you that one of the most difficult days in my life was the day that my wife and I helped our number two son. and his wife pack up their small Southern California apartment and moved to North Carolina. We stood out there behind the U-Haul waving goodbye and broke into tears just standing in the street. Saying goodbye to your children because of bad public policy is, that's a corrective. It woke me up, I can tell you. That was about 10 years ago, and I remember it as vividly as anything that happened last week. Liz, I just listened to what Will's saying, and I think about what you were saying about your friends. And I asked you specifically about President Trump, but let's just make it more general. Like when people are going through these kinds of really hard moments and trying to afford a house and thinking about where their lives go from here, like is there still faith in politics and people in power to solve problems? Or are we really getting to a place where we're really losing that? I think the fact that the housing crisis keeps deepening. The fact that it's not going in a promising direction, it's getting worse. I think that has caused a lot of despair. And a lot of people my age can get excited about somebody like Mamdani, who is talking quite a bit about housing, at least about tenants' rights and so forth, but maybe don't see themselves that reflected in your average Democrat's sort of presentation of issues. It is major. The housing crisis is an enormous problem. It's hard to even measure the scope of it. And I think when we talk about people in our generation delaying marriage, delaying childbirth, all of that has to do with the housing crisis creating a lot of barriers to what we think of as adulthood. And I think that's crushing. I just want to play a little clip from a member of Congress. This is Arkansas Representative French Hill. He's chairman of the House Financial Services Committee. And this was him talking ahead of the vote that went through in the House. Americans across our nation have faced the tough reality of out-of-control costs because of the recent spike in inflation coming out of the pandemic. President Trump has prioritized addressing affordability, and the Financial Services Committee has been working on solutions in our committee's area of jurisdiction. You know, the congressman there giving President Trump credit for addressing this. And I just, you know, even separate from whether a lot of these policies are good policymaking or not, which, you know, as we've been talking about some here, I do think this is kind of a moment for this president and this White House. I mean, we saw the immigration compromise. We know about that and how Trump blew it up because he saw political gain and not endorsing something that came through in a bipartisan compromise from the Hill. Like whatever comes to his desk and how he manages this moment, it just feels like it's going to say a lot about this presidency right now. Yeah, I would just say that this is what has real conservatives. I don't think just conservatives. I think this is real estate developers of any party. This is what has a lot of us concerned, that Trump's idea of a principled stand on affordability is meeting with Zoran Mandami in the Oval Office It talking about the dangers of Wall Street investment in real estate He really has no kind of architecture here for thinking about this in a public policy way And I acknowledge that he has far greater experience in real estate than I do but we all know something about economics. And I disagree with the congressman. This is not a problem that is caused by some recent spike in inflation. This goes back to the 1930s and pumping up demand for housing supply and the environmental movement and the natural inclination of homeowners to try to shut down any development around their own homes. I get it. I own a home. I hate to have an eight story multiplex near me in a shopping center. I bought this place because I like it. You know, it's quiet. But at the same time, we keep doing this in California and the U.S. in general. And this crisis is going to get far worse with the social implications I think that Liz and I have already addressed. Obviously, we're going to be watching how these next days and weeks play out when it comes to Congress's effort to help Americans with the housing affordability crisis in our country. You know, but before we go today, there's one other thing that I wanted to get to with both of you and get your reaction to. As we know, the Winter Olympics are underway in Italy, and some American athletes there have been feeling a little complicated about representing their country right now. And one of them is 27-year-old freestyle skier Hunter Hess. This is how he put it at a news conference. It brings up mixed emotions to represent the U.S. right now, I think. It's a little hard. There's obviously a lot going on that I'm not the biggest fan of, and I think a lot of people aren't. Just because I'm wearing the flag doesn't mean I represent everything that's going on in the U.S. So Hess added that he felt proud to represent his friends and family and all the things he believes are good about the United States. Uh, the president responded to this with a post on truth social. He called Hess quote, a real loser. Um, this is not something that we haven't heard from this president before, but I just hit me like it's usually reserved for his political opponents, not athletes who have sacrificed like everything. everything. I mean, being away from friends and family to train and get to this elite level, like it, I don't know, Liz, I just had this moment where it's like, we're used to that playbook from this president, but like, I don't know if this is the playbook he should be turning to now. No, I think definitely not, especially because as Will and I were discussing earlier, this isn't a great moment for Trump in terms of approval and general satisfaction among not only the left, but even his constituents on the right. And so I think going in a petty direction where as the president, you're just sort of beefing with random individual people is bizarre. It's unseemly. And I thought that those remarks were pretty tempered, were pretty fair. And, you know, what I would say about representing the United States abroad is, you know, you don't really have to apologize for it because the United States doesn't belong to the people that you disagree with. It's not only theirs. And there's quite a lot about the United States that's true and beautiful, equality, fraternity, liberty. These are all beautiful things that we have in the United States or we should have and treasure. And it's worth representing those things. Oh, Liz, I was with you all the way until you cited the French Revolution. But you did say it right. I mean, you've got it. And I think, you know, David, you didn't play the key moment there, I think. But you did refer to it when he actually said what he is representing. Like, that was the thing that he ought to have said. Now, look, he's a 27-year-old athlete. He's not a media star. All he had to say was what he did say. And needless to say, the president doesn't come off as strong or clever or powerful or smart. He comes off as weak and thin skinned and petty. It's really disturbing. And, you know, just a slight correction there, David. He has done this before. Colin Kaepernick, LeBron James, Megan Rapinoe, all of the Golden State Warriors who he disinvited from the White House after they won the NBA championship. Definitely athletes. I guess I was making a distinction like, I mean, the Olympic athletes. Yes, yes. Like with Team USA, there's something even more. Yeah, but no, I hear you. It hasn't just been politicians. Yeah. So this is, as you called it, both of you did, this is the playbook. Yeah. I would say that the better thing for us to even do here, what I try to do is, you know, the things that we focus on tend to become larger in our imaginations. And to focus on what Trump said to a skier takes my eye off for a moment from the things that I absolutely love about the Olympics. Like right now, I am just absolutely switched on to the U.S. women's hockey team. They are killing it. They're crushing everybody. Yes, yes, the Finns had the stomach flu. Sorry. they got trounced. So there, and these guys are just rolling. Like when I focus on that, I get thrilled again. And I forget that, that noise recedes into the background. It does. But, but you know, I, like I, I, I interviewed a reporter from the athletic on the ground in Milan. And I was hoping when I got on the line with him, that I was just feeling all these politics because that the headlines here and that like at Olympic village, no one's thinking about it. He said, that's all people were thinking about. And I mean, I think about Alyssa Liu's, You know, the amazing figure skater who could win gold for the first figure skater woman from the United States in two decades to win gold. Her coach said to the New York Times like that when J.D. Vance was getting booed, you know, in that stadium, the first reaction from many American athletes was like, are they booing us? It's just it's like I want to turn my attention to the sport, too, but it's it's hard. Yeah, I can see that. Liz, any last thoughts? I'll let you take us home. Yeah. Well, you know, the Olympics is a political event. It's where, you know, our best athletes represent our nation and we're in kind of a friendly competition with other nations. So I understand why people see a political element to it. And that's fine. But I don't think that the athletes themselves should feel or should be the subject of criticism that is trained on people or should be trained on people other than them. They are not responsible for the things that protesters don't like about the United States right now. And so it's a little bit unfortunate to see that the athletes themselves feel like they're the targets of that criticism. That isn't right. But, you know, when you bring elected officials into it, people are going to protest. That's just sort of the nature of the event. And they're handling it masterfully, those athletes. Like, I love the way that they carefully sent the messages that they wanted to send. Really thoughtful. Okay, I want to tell all of you out there, our listeners, several ways you can engage with our show. So join the Left, Right and Center community discussion on Substack. You can go to kcrwlrc.substack.com. That is kcrwlrc.substack.com. Or send us a question, as Julie did from Denton, Texas, earlier in the show. Write us an email. We love it more if you record a voice memo, about 30 seconds or so, email that to us. You can send it to lrc at kcrw.org. Just give us your first name, where you're calling from, and you might hear your voice on the show. All right. Time for our left, right, and center rants and raves. Liz, you want to get us started? Yes. One of my complaints about Valentine's Day has always been that it's the holiday in the year where because it's about love and romance, you're supposed to look your very best. But it's freezing outside. And so it's really impossible. You're in Connecticut, right? You're in that cold snap in the Northeast. Yes, exactly. And so it's very difficult to, you know, to gather the courage to put on the cute slinky dress and go out in heels. And so what I'm going to say about Valentine's this year is, you know, I've known my husband for 20 years now. And it is so nice to not do anything for Valentine's Day. It is so great when love becomes something that is in some sense demystified, which makes it sound bad. but actually it's so warm and secure. So we will be staying in. I will be cooking probably lasagna and then I'll make something chocolate for dessert. I can't wait to share what you just said with my wife. We've known each other for more than 20 years and that is the perfect Valentine's Day, I think to us too. Lasagna and something sweet would be amazing. That's lovely. Will? Maybe I'll talk to my friends in the left and right about their response to the Super Bowl halftime show with Bad Bunny. And the thing that was fascinating, though, was to watch how quickly progressives on the left looked at the Bad Bunny halftime show and saw a little child who they thought immediately, the rumor swept, I don't know if you guys saw this through social media, that this was the kid who had been basically part of an ice abduction in Minnesota. And it was just terrifying. And I thought for a brief moment, oh, my gosh, what if that's really real? Now, he also turned out to be a kid from Southern California, from Orange County, a five-year-old child actor who played Bad Bunny as a kid. But so that was, you know, the progressive take on this was, yay, multi-culti and, you know, down with any kind of borders. On the right, it was how outrageous that you would feature a guy who sang everything in Spanish. I didn't understand a word. And the dancing was appalling. And, you know, shame on the NFL. They've lost me for good. The NFL has this ambition to become a global brand. And the fact is that Super Bowl halftime show was just part of an ongoing effort. They have, I think, seven games this season. had seven games in places like the UK and all through Latin America, Mexico. They are trying to become to the world what soccer already is. And their halftime show showed no drop-off in attendance and their social media spiked, I think it was 140% over last year, just on the halftime alone. So this is, you know, this is what did Marx call it from the Communist Manifesto, our commodities knocking down the great walls of China. This is an American attempt to globalize a brand, and folks on the right and left can hate globalization or love it, but that's what the NFL is up to, and three cheers for business. You know, well, my rave is going to be on the same topic, but much simpler because you had a very nuanced analysis and take on the NFL and halftime, and I appreciate it. I'm just going to rave about halftime shows at the Super Bowl. They are generally amazing. I am the biggest football fan there is, but it's one of the best. It's often, I mean, Prince, Beyonce, Coldplay, Bad Bunny, Bruno Mars. I don't know. The weekend. Yeah. Yeah. Next year, I hope you watch the halftime show with no hesitation or skepticism. But I also get angry with people who plan parties saying it's a concert with a little bit of football on the side because the Super Bowl is all about the football. Yeah. Yeah, so I'm with you. All right. That is the show for today. Will Swain and Liz Bruning, I really appreciate you both being here. Can't wait to have you both back. Left, Right, and Center is produced by Robin Estrin. Our executive producer is Arnie Seipel. The show is recorded by Michael Stark and mixed by Hope Rush. Todd M. Simon composed our theme music. I want to thank the great team here at WLRN in Miami for hosting me in their studios for this week's show. Always love being here with you. Left, Right & Center is a co-production of KCRW and Fearless Media. We are distributed by PRX. I'm David Green. We will have more Left, Right & Center next week. Hope you'll join us. Download and subscribe at kcrw.com slash lrc. The KCRW app or wherever you find podcasts. Left, Right and Center is produced and distributed by KCRW.