Arlo Parks

Hi. Come in. Welcome to Fashion Neurosis, Arlo Parks.

0:08

Thank you. Thanks so much for having me.

0:19

Can you tell me what you're wearing today and why you chose these particular clothes?

0:21

Yeah. So I decided to wear things that friends of mine had made and all my little lucky charms. So I'm wearing my blue Burnham jewelry. And then my friend Jawara created this kind of hardware, piecemeal Massive Attack shirt, because I do enjoy kind of wearing references on my chest, on my body. And my friend Victoria made these parachute pants for me and these acne shoes. So I think things that feel me and things that carry meaning today.

0:27

The shirt, I mean, it's all really beautiful, and it all seems to sort of gel together, but the T shirt is just fantastic.

1:00

Thank you.

1:08

I love that. I'm a huge Massive Attack fan, and I've seen them so many times, and it feels great that they're somehow in the room. Thanks to your T shirt. It's really, really good. Yeah.

1:09

And there's something to me about the kind of metallic quality and the hardware with the colors and the soft. I don't know, there's something about the soft and hard textures that really speaks to me. And he's wonderful.

1:23

Yeah. And also there's something about the safety pins. The safety and the pin. And they both seem to. Massive Attack seem to do that. They puncture, you know, delusion, and then they hold things together in terms of. Well, for me, this is how I recognize them as like, the holder together of integrity and, you know, reality.

1:38

Yeah, that's beautiful. I also feel like the way that they, you know, draw from Caribbean sound system culture, like UK hip hop and poetry, and even the, you know, the equipment that they're using to create their music, it does feel like this blend or this collar collage of drawing together these different things to kind of have this, like, real kernel of truth and. Yeah, they're so inspiring.

2:05

Yeah, I like their backdrops, too. They. They have these backdrops created by Adam Curtis, you know, the filmmaker, editor. And when I saw them, I saw them. I can't remember if it was in Bristol. I think it was last summer or the summer before. And they had one that said, give me some good news, which I wrote down.

2:28

Yeah, it's interesting that you do that, too. I feel like there are certain kind of sentences and fragments that seem like they repeat themselves and that I somehow see everywhere. And I always note those down because I feel like it's clay for some kind of creation in the future. Definitely.

2:56

Do you have a notebook that you use.

3:14

Oh yes, I do. I'm such a creature of habit. We were talking before about people who sprawl and people who organize and I think having notebooks, I have this moleskins of specific dimensions, different colors for each one. But I think because I'm constantly kind of in motion and live quite a restless life, I'm always writing on little bits of paper and promising that I'll organize them in my notebook and never really doing so. Yeah, I do.

3:15

I do that too. Millions of lists and I love them.

3:45

Bird out at Work is a tale as old as time. Tale as old as time.

3:53

But a new generation may have found the fix.

3:58

We can learn so much from Gen Z and what they are teaching us about. Modeling the boundaries that would have prevented all of us from burning out in the first place. How to win the battle against burnout. That's this week on Explain It To Me.

4:01

Find new episodes Sundays, wherever you get your podcasts. And you're a singer and songwriter and you won the Mercury and a Brit when you were 21 and you've been recognized right from the start of your output. And how's your relationship with success and is it relaxing or is it nerve wracking?

4:19

That's interesting. I feel. I feel like getting those accolades and achieving that success at that age with a record that I created in a space that was quite unobserved. I was just writing poetry and expressing myself and didn't feel like there were any eyes on me and then to be praised for something that I created where the North Star was completely me and my meness. I think having that at that age did allow me to relax into this sense of trusting the journey. And I've always wanted to be a career artist. I've always wanted to be somebody who's making albums till the end. So I think that it definitely allowed me to settle into myself and know that, you know, if I trusted myself, that would be the right thing to do and put me in the right place.

4:43

Yeah, because when you start something, you kind of presume it will be successful until there's some kind of, you know, something happens or something doesn't. I mean, I'm only speaking for myself.

5:33

I was gonna say, I feel like for me it's almost the opposite.

5:47

I know.

5:50

Like, I think I very much thought that, you know, music was something that I would be doing in obscurity, quietly, away from everyone's eyes until the end. And so I do think that success was a surprise, maybe the kind of success, you know, because I definitely did feel that, you know, there was something to the work, which is why I shared it. But I think for it to be recognized in this kind of global way that was so much bigger than me was a surprise, I would say.

5:51

Yeah, it's very. It's very. I mean, obviously it's gratifying, but it kind of generates more sort of energy for more success. I think when something goes well, it makes things go well.

6:23

I agree with that. I do think it's quite generative and I guess it depends maybe on the. The angle, the type of success that you achieve. But I think when something that you've kind of created from a pure place is accepted in that way, it also generates a lot of confidence, I think. Yeah, it feels like it snowballs in a way.

6:40

Yeah, that's true. The confidence is a really helpful thing to have. I mean, I know it's obvious, but you don't notice it till you have it. I think and realize I find decision making gets more succinct. There's less. I mean, I have been the queen of self doubt for a lot of my life. So when I notice I'm quick to a decision, I'm quite, quite stimulated by that.

7:00

Yeah. I think. I mean, it's a muscle almost. I think that decisiveness and being able to, you know, have that. That real line between the gut and the action and not really doubting that, that lightning. I do think, personally, I think I've always been quite in touch with that part of myself. But I do think that when you're making a decision that isn't just for you and that, you know, is going to kind of ripple out into the world, it does start to create a little bit of self doubt or you're kind of checking again and again to make sure that that's really what you're meant to do.

7:31

There's a line from your new album Ambiguous Desire that says, I kind of wish I wasn't me. And I wondered why does that feel tempting? And is there someone you've imagined being?

8:07

I think there's something about escape to me. I think I often feel, you know, as quite a cerebral person who spends a lot of time in my own head. I do think I often fantasize about being outside of it. And I don't necessarily think it's about being a specific person. More, you know, the concept of being outside of my own thoughts and my own patterns. I think I find a lot of comfort in patterns and in doing things a certain way. And I also think in terms of that Song. A lot of it is about, you know, being hypersensitive and being so porous to the world and feeling so much all the time, being like, I wonder what it would be like to be a bit less like that. Not that I would really want to be, but it was a fleeting thought.

8:20

Yeah, I suppose it's magic realism, isn't it? Thinking if I was them. And I've done that, definitely there's a few people. I think if I was them, I'd be able to handle this somehow.

9:05

It's true. It's true. Definitely.

9:18

Because you seem to have a confidence about your identity from the word go. And what was the first garment that changed the way you felt about yourself?

9:21

The first thing that comes to mind, I think, is this denim jacket. I got it at one of those kind of Kilo vintage sales in Camden when I was maybe, you know, 13 or 14. And I remember the process of sewing on my little badges that I felt kind of announced my identity in terms of the bands that I loved. I had my little Arctic Monkeys one and had, you know, Smashing Pumpkins one, and there was something about how baggy and oversized it was. It felt like this little cocoon or this shield. And I just remember wearing it day in and day out. My mum was like, are you ever going to take that jacket off? I was like, this jacket is me. I'll never take it off. There was something. Something about that jacket that I still. I still think about it. I still want to wear things that make feel like that denim jacket made me feel.

9:32

It's a real link. It's a clue, isn't it?

10:23

Exactly.

10:26

And you grew up in Hammersmith, in London, and you're half Nigerian, a quarter Chadian and a quarter French, and you've said no one else in your family is remotely creative. And I wondered where your love of reading comes from. And because you cite so many different literary references.

10:28

Yeah, I think the urge to write came from within. But my love of literature, you know, my dad would play audiobooks almost constantly, maybe even more so than music. And it would always be, you know, books that he wanted to read. It would be Kurt Vonnegut and Graham Greene and Moby Dick, Treasure Island. And so I think at first my relationship to language was that it was this puzzle and this mystery, you know, I would only understand it in parts and fragments and would go to the dictionary to look up words that I didn't know. And there was something about. Felt like uncovering treasure, in a way.

10:50

Yeah.

11:27

And so I think after, you know, having that in my younger years I just became fascinated with poetry and literature and, you know, the way that books made me feel. And I think because I was quite a solitary child, not necessarily unhappy, but I just. I like to be by myself with my books. It just became this refuge for me. And it still is. It always has been.

11:28

Yeah. It's interesting. Moby Dick for some reason is a book that surfaces in every writer's repertoire from when it was first written to now. It's the sort of linchpin I must reread. I read it sort of a hundred years ago, but it keeps coming up and I can't even remember what it's about, except for it has some sort of thing.

11:53

Yeah, I think it's. There's something about this. There's something about the white whale. There's something about this kind of the symbol of that and this being, you know, this creature that kind of haunts this person. And there is this kind of fascination that, you know, capturing this whale is going to be the thing that, you know, this sense of revenge, this kind of cyclical quality to the book. I was always fascinated by that. I think that and mythology and animals and, you know, I was always really inspired by that as a child. There was something about being fixated on this one thing that will kind of heal. Well, supposedly would heal some internal thing and kind of finish this loop. That's something that was really fascinating to me as a child because it sort

12:20

of has a soundtrack that goes with it, doesn't it? Just soon as you say the word Moby Dick, there's the. You can hear the sound of that kind of haunting sound of whales and the pathos of a whale and the huge history and. And like that. It does feel mythological. I love mythology too. Yeah.

13:08

The kind of ancient. These kind of feel like these ancient wanderers. Yeah. There's something about Wales that I've also been fascinated with. I love this Whales detour. But yes, yes, I agree with you.

13:31

Well, I seen when I was kind of 10ish, they seemed like a. Again, I was looking for these kind of places of power, of good values, of truth, of daring. And not just in the Greek warriors, but something about a whale had this atmosphere about it that as a child I clung onto and thought, yes, I'm gonna be with the whale and I'll be saved.

13:45

I'll be saved. I do think. I mean, there's something about that also for me, the sense of the deep se. And that kind of ambiguity and that vastness was always really fascinating to me. I think, I mean, earlier we were talking about the romantics and the sublime and, you know, this kind of destructive power of nature. And I was always wanting to be, you know, if I was at the foot of a mountain or, you know, a massive kind of vista and I felt really small, I really liked that feeling. There was something really comforting to me about, you know, feeling like a small little ant and faced with the vastness of nature.

14:20

Gosh, that seems like a good sign.

14:57

I think so, yeah. Being comfortable with being small. I guess in a way, you're right. Yeah.

15:01

And as a kid, did you have a code way of dressing? Did you dress to stand out or blend in?

15:07

I think it was a little bit of both. I always kind of. I always felt like quite an androgynous person. And so I guess I maybe dressed in a way, you know, was always quite baggy and oversized, really inspired by kind of sportswear and practical things. And that felt like, you know, in a way it was kind of concealing and shrouding me. But I always felt really myself in those kind of clothes. But I was kind of the only person I knew who dressed in that way. So I think in a way I did stand out and felt content with that too. So it was a little bit of both.

15:15

Yeah. Because you said I feel this need for forward motion all the time, and I know that feeling very well. And is it a fear driven thing or a restlessness? And I wondered if you remember the first time you were conscious of this and how you dealt with it.

15:55

I think it's a little bit of both. I think I've always felt. I've always felt a little bit uncomfortable in stillness. I think sometimes I'm afraid of being stagnant and I'm afraid of, you know, being in one place for too long. I think there's something really kind of voraciously curious about me as a person. So I think I'm always kind of seeking and searching. And I've always been like that as a child, I think just having a complicated relationship with being present, looking to the future, looking to the past. I think I've always been, you know, trying to keep hold of all of those things at once, which of course, you know, isn't possible. But I think even as a writer and a creative person, I've always been somebody who likes to keep moving and learning.

16:14

So it's not a fear, it's not a kind of anxious like I have to move.

17:04

I mean, it probably is a little bit back. I think. I think I always have this sense of, you know, it sounds a little bit morbid. It's not mortality in a morbid way, but it's more that there's so much that I want to do and see in my life that I feel like I have to kind of constantly be moving towards that and absorbing as much as I can.

17:10

Yeah.

17:32

And also just being a creative person who wants to kind of sprawl in many different directions and write screenplays and, you know, get into other parts of songwriting also. I do feel like I need to be making progress in all those different directions at once. Maybe also just being young and excited, you know.

17:33

Yeah, that's great. To be young and excited instead of young and paranoid, which is.

17:52

That's true. That's very true.

17:57

Because I think of that there's a certain thing in one's 20s, I find that it's like life finishes at 30, so if you haven't done it in your 20s, it's like life's over. And then I found when I got to 30, I thought, oh, my God, I'm actually young. I should just enjoy some of this instead of being driven by the Eumenides at my heels, you know, just like in this sense of. But maybe because I wasn't really achieving stuff in my 20s, but it's a wonderful thing.

18:00

I feel connected to the second part of what you said because for me, the idea of, you know, aging and gaining wisdom is really inspiring to me. I remember reading, I think it was Marina Abramovich's memoir, or maybe it was.

18:37

Yeah, it's incredible.

18:51

It's incredible. And just her talking about, you know, the work that she was creating later in life and the fact that she had to, you know, accumulate that confidence over time. And that wisdom, of course, and that she could never have made the work that she made in her later years when she was in her 20s. She just wasn't there yet. And I'm excited for that kind of gradual series of arrivals over the rest of my life. That's exciting to me.

18:53

Yeah. Because you've cited Zadie Smith as a big heroine. And I wondered, what do you find so compelling about the way she uses language?

19:19

I think she's just. She just creates such rich stories and these, you know, really three dimensional characters that I feel like. I know. I remember when my dad gave me white teeth and it was actually the first book he ever really gave me and was like, you should read this.

19:31

Yeah.

19:46

And I just remember being so moved. She just has this sensibility that it's just really sharp and intuitive and natural. She seems like such a natural writer. And we exchange emails occasionally, which I like. An email feels like a letter in a way, and I love letters. But there's just always been something in her fiction and also her as a playwright. I saw the wife of Wilsten relatively recently, and I really enjoyed that, too, and how she kept that kind of organic, fluid style in her other mediums. She's just amazing.

19:47

Yeah, she is amazing, in fact.

20:24

Has she been on this?

20:27

She has. She was on the first. My first recording was with her, and then Rick Owens.

20:28

Wow.

20:38

And I had a picture of certain people who I thought would really illuminate this idea that had been kind of. I'd wanted to try and make work for a few years, and so I had the good fortune to. She was the first person, and Rick came in the evening. And I just loved how she taught. I knew she loved clothes, and then. Her writing is so amazing, and she's such a literary figure, but there's none of that kind of almost kind of indulgence in crusty dryness that seem that sometimes people buy into. And I think writing is the most glamorous thing you can do on earth. I agree with that. It's so exciting, you know, it's so appealing and it's so sexy, and she really kind of captivates, you know, she encapsulated that, and I thought, I have to have her.

20:38

There is something very glamorous about her, definitely, in this kind of. In this effortless way. And it does find its way into the writing. And the way she talks about relationships and chemistry and pain, it still has that sense of poise and style. I think it's her sense of style, just in all ways.

21:44

Yeah. Yeah. Because Zadie changed her name from Sadie, and you changed yours from Anais Mourinho to Arlo Parks. And did you need a different name in order to be as intrepid as you are?

22:04

I think so. I think for me, it was almost like putting on this. Putting on an armor or, you know, allowing myself to experiment in a way that felt a little bit more anonymous and a little bit less observed. And it also just almost put me, you know, when I was writing as Arlo Parks, there was this sense of, you know, daring that came over me. All this playfulness, this sense of experimentation. I think as a person, especially as a teenager, I think there was a kind of rigidity about me and the way that I was in my daily life. I think I was relatively shy and to myself, But I think when I was writing or, you know, playing guitar or exploring sonically. There was this kind of courage that came out of me that I kind of associated with Arlo Parks or having a name other than my own.

22:21

Yeah. It's interesting that. I think any device you can find to get yourself out there is a great device.

23:18

Definitely.

23:28

I remember Zandra Rhodes talking about how her mother called her Zandra because she wanted her to have this already. Something to negotiate with. And it was. Everyone always called her Sandra. And there was something where she had to fight to get people to call her by this actual name that she'd been given. And already there was the exercise in being recognized, you know.

23:29

Yeah. And inserting yourself in that way. And I do think names hold a lot of power. Even when you think about, you know, the names of records or film. I think there is a power to, you know, the first thing that you see on the. You know, on the front, you see the COVID of the book, but then also, you know, that name emblazoned on the front and it. Yeah, there's a promise there that I think I really connect to. Even though when it comes to writing, I think the name of the song or the record usually does come at the end. Because I guess I want a sense of what it is that I'm trying to describe and encapsulate after the fact.

23:57

Yeah. I was gonna ask you about record covers, actually. Cause they had such a big aesthetic influence on me. And I remember certain ones so specifically. And I wondered if there was a record cover that had particularly affected you or that you'd noted.

24:37

Definitely. I mean, we were talking about Massive Attack. I remember Mezzanine. And also all the kind of single covers of the Blue Lines record as well. I think Mezzanine, that kind of metallic, you know, the insect and that eeriness and that foreboding. And then, you know, that song angel or Inertia Creeps. There's something kind of crawling about that. That whole record, but in the best way. So I love that record cover. And then, you know, almost on the polar opposite end. I love the Pink Moon. Nick Drake album cover.

24:55

I haven't seen that.

25:28

It's really beautiful. It's this, you know, quite. It's like this green painted kind of surreal landscape that I think really connects to the dreaminess of the record and of the music. But I think I was always attracted to either album covers that felt like they really grated against the content and there was a friction there, or that felt like, you know, they spoke to each other. Any Naturally, I think it was one or the other.

25:29

Yeah. And I always remember Marvin Gaye, what's going on, and being totally obsessed with what he was wearing and how perfect he looked. And this patent leather or leather jacket. You just see the collar and the black roll neck.

25:55

Exactly.

26:17

And just thinking there's so little, but so much there. And how is that so.

26:17

Exactly. And it also makes me think of. Makes me think of Bjork for some reason, on all her different album covers. And the way that, you know, the light and the fabric interact and how. I mean, I remember listening to something that she had called sonic symbolism, which was kind of about the symbolism of the clothes and the artwork and how that related to the music in each era. And she was talking about her album post and, you know, being immersed in trip hop and Bristol and Glasgow and being in the city and the lights and the color and what she was wearing. And there is this kind of sense of it being almost this flair. So much life and color in it. So I think of her as well, and the way that what she wears kind of feels like it links to the soundtrack of the music. And as she changes and her artistry changes. It's really interesting.

26:24

Yeah, Yeah. I think she's written one of the best songs about emotional pain. There's a line that goes something about my own private torture. And I thought, God, yes. How does she know? You know, it's so, so good. And I love her work. In your song room on your album My Soft Machine, you described the fraughtness of being involved with someone where drugs came first. And what do you think makes you the carer and not the actor outer.

27:18

Oh, that's interesting. I think I've always. I think I've always been that way. I think there's always been a desire to kind of nurture and save in my personality. I think I often have also found that role in. In groups of friends or in relationships in general. I think being the one that maybe is a little bit more kind of calm and grounded and stoic and is able to kind of be a rock or an anchor in those more turbulent times. But I do think, you know, on the inside, we all have that inner child that is, you know, that does kind of act out and come out in moments. But I do think a lot of my songs are about, you know, observing friends or lovers or people who are moving through these things, because when I am actually living that, there is a helplessness or there's an inability to put it anywhere other than in the song, because it's not about me, you know, So I think it comes out in journaling and in poetry, especially in those situations where I feel kind of frozen and where the focus is on taking care of this person who is struggling.

27:55

You describe it so well in your songs because a lot of your songs refer to that. And every. All the things that I've been listening to you, it sort of springs up like a, you know, like a mirage almost. And you. I can picture those scenes and that the feeling of it is so powerful. And I really recognize that it's such a specific observation that a lot of people don't make or they miss it or they don't want to.

29:06

Yeah. And I do think I've always been almost hyper aware of, you know, those little micro. Just micro things in general. But, you know, even in a. In a group of friends, I can always feel when somebody's being a little bit left out or there's a kind of unspoken discomfort. I always feel so attuned to that. And I can't help but act. I think some people ignore those little signs, but I think it's kind of built into me to respond to them. Maria, you have a podcast now, and you need to start acting like it. What's the first step as a podcaster? Well, you have to ask lots of questions.

29:44

I'm Maria Sharapova, and I'm hosting a

30:22

new podcast called Pretty Tough. Every week I'm sitting down with trailblazing women at the top of their game to discuss ambition, work ethic and the ups and downs that come on the path to achieving greatness. I have a few pretty tough questions for you. Okay.

30:24

Ready?

30:39

Ready.

30:40

Do not sugarcoat something for me.

30:40

No, no. We'll dive into their stories and get valuable insights from top executives, actors, entrepreneurs, and other individuals who have inspired me so much in my own journey. Pretty Tough is your front row seat to the women who have demonstrated the power in being a unapologetic in their pursuits.

30:42

I hope you'll join us.

31:00

New episodes Drop Wednesdays on YouTube or in your favorite podcast app. Secretary of Defense Pete Hegseth has been talking about the war in Iran in distinctly biblical terms, citing Psalms, the resurrection

31:01

of Jesus, and the book of Quentin.

31:19

And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and fear, furious anger, those who attempt to capture and destroy my brother. President Trump is comparing himself to Christ. Vice President Vance is fighting with the Pope. Watching all of this is the increasingly influential Pastor Doug Wilson. He co founded the church that Hegseth attends. Wilson's a Christian nationalist who would like the USA to be a theocracy. He'd also like to help us get there, though he doesn't think it's going to happen anytime soon. I believe that it is a accelerating. I believe that we're making significant gains. I see assembling resources and I'm encouraged in that labor. But I don't expect to see what we're praying for in my lifetime. Pastor Doug Wilson and how much you should worry about his plans on Today Explained from Vox Weekdays, afternoons, wherever immigration may be Donald Trump's signature issue. President Trump is now targeting predominantly Democratic cities for ICE raids and deportations. Dozens of protesters clashing with Immigration and Customs Enforcement agents in Minneapolis. We will begin the process of returning millions and millions of criminal aliens back to the places from which they came. But what we want to do in this space is talk about America and politics beyond the current president. So what do most Americans think about deportation and border security, period? I think that Americans are definitely against the kind of violent displays that we've seen in the street from ice. When it comes to the question of deportation, the answer is more complicated. My sense is that people want border at the border. They don't like the idea of having no idea who's coming into the United States at any given time. The view on immigration from the bottom up instead of the top down, that's this week on America, actually every Saturday in your audio and video feeds.

31:21

In 2022, when you were 22, you cancelled your US tour, saying you're mental health had deteriorated to a debilitating place. And it clearly takes a lot to stop you. And what was the thing that stopped you in this moment?

33:14

I think it just got to a breaking point, you know, as honestly, since I was a child, I've always been the one who put pressure on myself. I had a real sense of how lucky I was to be in this position where I could write and create and share that with people. So I think it meant that I shouldered a lot more than I should have. And it came from a place of real excitement. You know, everything was new and fresh and exciting. But it got to a place where the pacing just left me so exhausted and I felt like a husk of myself, you know, somebody who's, I'm always, you know, quite full of life and quite a vibrant person. And I felt that, you know, fading away. And that's what made me feel like I needed a break. And even though I was doing things that I loved, there was something that was kind of eroding at me. And I think it was just the sheer volume. You know, I was only sleeping two or three hours a night, and I was. Hadn't been home in, you know, nine months. I'd been home for one day in nine months. And it got to the point where I knew that, you know, in order to preserve that excitement and that life, I had to, you know, stop for a moment. And I only, you know, I only canceled a few dates. I was only home for, like, four days, but I needed. I needed something. And that was enough to, you know, sit, drink tea, you know, eat, sleep 14 hours a day. And that's just what I needed, I think, in order to keep going.

33:33

Yeah, because it's a term that you read about a lot. You know, having a breakdown, but doing a lot of, you know, having a big life and doing a lot. Sometimes I wonder what. What's the moment where you can't reset yourself? Because I often think about that and think, what does that actually feel like when, you know, you. You have to stop? Rather than doing some breathing or, you know, doing hoovering or whatever it is that calms you down and then your back, what is it that stops you for a bit? Do you remember that?

35:04

Yeah. There is that elastic limit when you just can't find your shape again. And I think maybe it's that. It's when the things that your whole life have been sources of joy and nourishment and the things that always make you feel better start not being able to pull you out anymore. And. And that's when you really do need to stop. Because, especially, you know, when I think about longevity, when I think about doing something for decades, pacing is so important. And I didn't want to be somebody who, you know, had this, like, bright shooting star and wasn't able to, you know, have this longer arc of creativity. And, you know, what mattered to me most was feeling like I was in touch with myself and my art and my fans and the people around me, but also my family, my partner. You know, being a human being and maintaining those relationships was also so important to me. So when something feels really deeply misaligned and those, you know, those people or this. Things that always bring you comfort can't really touch you anymore. I think that's when it's really time to stop.

35:46

Yeah, definitely. And do you find there are certain clothes that make you feel better when you're feeling low?

36:58

Definitely. I think for me, it's always. It's always leather for some reason, I think, like a leather jacket and leather Pants that feels like my armor. There's something about it to me where I feel so myself. I think it's the androgyny of it. I think it's the way that, you know, when you wear a leather jacket over years, it really kind of, you know, your shape fills it in this perfect way. And I think also, you know, having jewelry and little charms that friends have given me over time and carrying those in my pocket, you know, my partner gave me this little gold matchbox with these doves on it. And I think when I have things like that and I carry them with me, that makes me feel protected in a way. There's something that, you know, regulates me, I think, having things that have meaning and have accumulated meaning, you know, as I've carried them around with me through airports and cities and venues.

37:05

Yeah. There's something about just that act of putting them on as well, that's like, I'm not. I'm just not going to be a blob. I'm going to.

38:07

Exactly, exactly. You're so right. Of the fact that I'm alive, you know, that. That's so funny. That's exactly how I feel. I think that's what the leather jacket does for me. The leather jacket and, you know, like, a chunky chain and some, you know, stompy boots that made me feel like I can get out and dance and, you know, take ownership of my life again, I think. Yeah. Anti blob mode. I love that.

38:19

It's a very 70s term, blob, but it does the job.

38:48

Yeah.

38:53

Because you've been dressed by some of the world's greatest designers, including Tom Brown and Simone Rocher and Gucci. And which designer do you think really gets you?

38:54

Oh, that's a great question. I think I do want to say Simone because I've been wearing her clothes for a long time, and there's something about, you know, the contrast between that femininity and, you know, the embroidery and the pearls and that delicate quality with, you know, the slightly more oversized silhouettes and the stompy boots. And I think as a human being, I think that masculinity and femininity are always, you know, constantly tussling and come to the forefront in me differently on different days. And I think that when I'm wearing Simone, I feel like I can, you know, both can occupy me, and I feel like I'm wearing both at once, and I really love that. Yeah, yeah.

39:06

She's such a cool designer, and I remember one of her very first shows and just thinking this is someone so. With so much scope and so confident in a certain way. And confident to be, you know, to have these ruffles and pearls and stuff, and also have these bova boots and like, punk sort of tenseness to it too. And I love that about her work, definitely.

39:53

And I think I've always felt that way about her clothes. And as you say, there is this kind of daring, but this really strong North Star. It doesn't feel like being provocative as a costume or as an act. I do genuinely feel like she connects to those textures and to that friction.

40:26

Yeah, totally.

40:46

And she's just such a cool, cool person. Very, you know, humble and understated.

40:47

Yeah, she's really great. I really admire her. And if you fancy someone and don't like something they're wearing, does it kill your attraction?

40:52

I've thought about this question a lot because I love this podcast, so I've heard it so many times, but I. I don't think it kills my attraction. I think it gives me information. And I. I think I always kind of appreciate the daring of somebody just wearing something hideous that for some reason they connect to. Like, it helps me understand them more. And I think, you know, the soul shines through in a really interesting way when somebody is wearing something that I don't like necessarily because it's them, you know, and I wouldn't want to change that, I don't think.

41:02

Yeah, it's such a kind of. If I think back, I've got a lot to think back on, but there's only one or two people whose clothing has been such an alarm signal of don't go there, which I overrode. And the clothes were so bad. But in the end, clothes are fine. It's the kind of. The way they're worn and with a certain kind of. A certain vanity. Vanity in itself is fine, but there's something just belligerent.

41:40

And I agree with you. I agree with you on that. I think the way that the clothes are worn definitely can be, you know, alluring or off putting.

42:21

Yeah.

42:31

And it also gives you a bit of information about, you know, the person wearing the clothes that, you know, might be something to pay attention to. Yeah, sure.

42:31

Yeah.

42:41

Underneath.

42:41

No, I. I'm always so interested. And you've also described the importance of taking rigorous exercise. And I wondered what happens to your sense of self regulation if you miss a day.

42:43

Oh, I feel all out of sorts. I think I need to at least go for a walk. I love boxing and I love, you know, more intense exercise. Go to the gym, probably about an hour a day. But for me, it's just about. It's about movement. It's about, you know, feeling the blood, moving, putting on my music, getting into my body. I think that and cooking probably are the only forms of meditation. Yeah. That really work for. Yeah, we did say at the beginning I'm a little bit restless and I like to move. And I feel a lot of peace when I'm moving in those two ways. Yeah, I have to do it daily. It's definitely one of my things, because

43:00

I noticed that it came up a lot in the things I read about you and I really identified because I feel if I. I mean, I think I'm quite superstitious in a way. And if I miss something, I. I don't literally think this, but I have this kind of hauntedness. If I miss something, part of my routine that makes me feel good, something will go wrong and.

43:40

Oh, I feel exactly the same way. And I feel like I'm always constantly, you know, acquiring new rituals, new things that I'm like. Especially if something goes really well after I do it. Recently, for me, it's been. I've been playing shows lately, and usually they'll print out the set lists and I'll write notes. But one time I just wrote it all myself, top to bottom, and it went really well. And I was like, okay, that's it. No more printed set lists. I need to do it every night, otherwise something's gonna go wrong. So I definitely relate to that sense of superstition.

44:07

Sometimes I think I create too many rules. I'm trying to sort of relax on that front a bit. But, you know, I can imagine you writing that list and how it inhabits you in a different way and how that could give them an extra dimension in a way. And that's always so exciting to find a new door of that.

44:46

Definitely. And I feel. I feel similarly. I really. I do like a sense of routine. And, you know, I think maybe it's also because I'm living my life, you know, in little slices, that I'm constantly traveling and needing to be one place or another. Those things that I can keep consistent. And the things that, you know, the certain rhythms that I can maintain no matter what I feel like are really sacred to me.

45:11

Because also, you change your hair color kind of regularly. And changing hairstyle and colour can be a way of managing feelings. And do you have a message with your current hair color?

45:40

Yeah, I mean, it's been red. It's been red for a few years now. It was a little. It was more kind of coppery before. I guess maybe I'm moving away from my natural hair color every few years, just further and further away. But no, I think again, it just. It feels like a part of me now. There's something about red as a color that feels like there's. There's a boldness to it and there's a. I don't know, there's something about my. My soul that connects to it, and it just feels like me. I think when I find a hair color that feels like me, then I do really. I do really stick to it. And I find it hard to think about, you know, having anything but red hair.

45:55

Yeah. Now it must be fun to look in the mirror and see it.

46:37

I feel like I barely even see it. It's kind of like my tattoos.

46:42

Yeah.

46:45

Someone might point out that I have a lot, and I'm like, oh, I didn't. I forgot that I did. Yeah.

46:45

And when you were at school, one of your teachers encouraged you to write poetry because you were very articulate with your feelings, but plot wasn't so important to you. And you've talked about wanting to write scripts, and I wondered, how will that work when you have a specific story to tell?

46:51

I think when it comes to screenwriting, I think it's going to be a challenge in itself. I like to read a lot about an art form before I start, for better or for worse. And I do think I'm really in touch with my voice when it comes to shorter form pieces like a song or a short story or a poem. But there's something about developing a story over an hour and a half, two hours, that's really exciting to me. It's daunting. Feels like approaching a novel or something. But I do think I'm going to learn a lot about myself and my sense of patience and maybe my tenacity as a writer, to be honest, because it's going to be a labor of a year or years, and there's something exciting about that. To me, I love film. I'm obsessed with film. And so I think maybe I'm taking my time because I do have so much reverence for screenwriters and for, you know, film as a format.

47:13

Who do you like as a screenwriter? Which film has the script that you find particularly kind of hits the spot.

48:13

I think about my immediate thought goes to the film Teorama by Pasolini.

48:23

Which one?

48:31

The film Teorama by Pasolini.

48:32

Yeah.

48:35

Yeah. I think I enjoy scripts. I think that have a lot of Suggestion where more is kind of inferred.

48:35

Yeah.

48:41

Godly direction and. But then on the other side of things, I love, you know, the director, Sean Baker, for example. It feels like a documentary, something really kind of naturalistic about it. So I think either things that don't feel like they've been scripted at all, or more kind of surreal, fragmented, kind of, you know, Orfe by Jean Cocteau. That kind of world I really connect to.

48:42

Yeah, yeah. It's so good. Even Beauty and the Beast is so full of feeling. You're just completely caught up with that journey.

49:08

Exactly. It's very much about the spaces in between. And maybe I think that's the real key when it comes to script writing. The fact that as humans, I feel like we're often holding back what it is that we really feel, or. Yeah, you know, we're lying. We're not telling the truth. So there is something about. It's a skill in itself, I think, to maintain the spaces in between and really tell a story and develop characters.

49:22

Yeah, yeah. And how do you create suspense? That's something I'm really fascinated with.

49:48

Exactly. Exactly.

49:53

God knows.

49:54

God knows. Yeah. That's exactly what I was thinking. I was like, I really don't know. I need to work on it. Yeah.

49:55

And you've talked a lot about managing the internal critical voice, and I wondered, how do you handle a compliment?

50:02

Oh, that's a good question. I think usually quite awkwardly. I mean, it depends. It depends on the compliment, I think. But I do find them a little bit difficult to hold. I think at times I always appreciate them. But I think there's something about. I often feel a little bit paralysed as to how to respond.

50:10

Can you remember a favourite compliment that you've ever received?

50:34

My friend Lucy was talking to me about my music and she was just like, I feel like you have a lot of courage when you write and you admit a lot. And I liked that.

50:38

That's lovely.

50:49

Yeah. The fact that there's this transparency and this vulnerability to the work, I really loved. That was a lovely compliment because on

50:50

your new album, you have Sampha guesting on the song Senses, and his voice and your voice together is really like a heavenly chorus. And you're interested in the work of so many musical artists. And why did you decide on him?

50:59

I think, I mean, firstly, his voice as an instrument. To me it feels like a woodwind instrument or a cello. There's something so kind of ancient and vast about it, but also, you know, he's able to control it. So Effortlessly. And it feels like it comes from this really organic place in him. But I think even, you know, when it comes to his work, he's such a shapeshifter. But then there's still a really specific core of Samhfor that I think stays untouched throughout the years of his creativity. And I just feel like with this specific song, he was really able to, you know, understand the nuance of, you know, flip flopping between being able to forgive yourself and then, you know, feeling extreme guilt over things that you feel like you'll never forgive yourself about. So he's able to. To explore light and shade in a way that is really gorgeous.

51:20

Yeah, Good description. Because there's something almost like harpsichord in his voice. These. All these different delicate strains and you imagine something very light, but it's giving such a. There's so much richness.

52:16

Yeah, exactly.

52:32

I love that.

52:33

Harpsichord. Yeah, that's a perfect description. Lots of, like, very fine elements working together to produce something that does have a lot of body, though. There's a lot of weight and very kind of 10.

52:34

You really remember it because I first heard him when I listened to Everything Is Recorded and I went to Richard Russell, did a performance when that album came out, and most of the artists did their songs there and there was just this nagging, like, what is that heavenly voice that. Who is that? You know, And I came to know him in that way, and every time I hear it, his voice, and then hearing his voice on senses and the way your voices go together and it's so moving. It's wonderful.

52:48

Yeah, he really is. He's also just such a gentle, humble man. I think he really has changed music with his sensibility and he really has no idea in the best way. He's just wonderful. Yeah.

53:28

And in your song Blades, you name check Claire Danes.

53:44

Yeah.

53:49

It's so niche. What does it mean?

53:51

I mean, it's from the Baz Luhrmann's Romeo and Juliet when she's looking through, like, watching like, Claire Danes through the water. So when she's looking through the aquarium at Romeo, it's. Yeah.

53:53

Referencing that moment because it's so great the way you bring people into your work and it's like reading a book where they talk about other writers and then you go and read them or listening. Yeah, I love that. And somehow Claire Dane seemed like, so mainstream and I loved that as well. It's like, oh, gosh, what am I missing? I need to find out.

54:07

That's so good. Yeah. Yeah. There's something about it that I don't know. I think the reference kind of really places makes it feel lived in, and I've always loved that in my favorite songwriters. When I think about, you know, a song like Alameda by Elliott Smith, and even that first line, walking down Alameda, you're on that street with him, you feel like you've lived it. And it's something I've always done quite unconsciously, actually, those references. So I guess it's become part of my style in a way.

54:33

Yeah, it's great. It's like all the different lessons that can be learned, you know, from just listening to one of your songs about people and curiosity. You talked about curiosity, and that's such a thing that you bring. Bring to the world with your work, and it's really. It's great. It's great to discover. Thank you. Well, thank you so much, Arlo Parks, for being on Fashion Neurosis.

55:05

Thanks so much for having me. This has been a dream it seems

55:35

to have gone past in a trice yeah. Oh, thank you.

55:38

Thanks, Bella.

55:44