How Body Image Became a Billion-Dollar Business

I got to the place in a depressive episode where I started to question how I could put my life on pause. I wasn't recognizing myself. Just getting to your most rock bottom to say, I'm sick of this. I don't want to live like this anymore. But I was in a really intense environment. The stakes were really high. The pressure was on. No wonder an 18-year-old who hadn't been exposed to this type of intensity before was crumbling under the pressure and needed help. I was at war with my body. What's up, rich friends, and welcome back to another episode of Net Worth and Chill with me, your host, Vivian Tu, aka your rich BFF and your favorite Wall Street girly. And I have some devastating news to share with all of you today. We are all victims of the skinny girl industrial complex. You know what I'm talking about, that voice in your head that says, I look big in these jeans, or should I skip lunch? I just need to lose 10 pounds and then I'll finally be hot enough. And once I'm hot enough, well, everything in my life is just going to fall into place, right? Wrong. Not only is this complete BS, it's also just really, really brilliant marketing designed to keep us broke and insecure. You don't need another slim tummy T, another two inches on your butt that requires just a few small incisions or the newest miracle drug to help you become the prettiest, read skinniest, version of yourself. You're already enough, exactly as you are. But let's also keep it real. The beauty and wellness industries are worth hundreds of billions of dollars, and they didn't get that big on accident. They got that big by convincing the rest of us that our worth is directly tied to our appearance and oftentimes our weight. And pure happiness is just one purchase away. It's time we talked about the real cost of chasing these impossible standards, not just financially, but emotionally and mentally too. Today's guest knows this struggle intimately. She's a former division one athlete who's been on both sides of the body image battle, a Forbes 30 under 30 content creator who's built a business around authentic self-worth and the host of a top mental health podcast, RealPod. Everyone, please welcome my friend, the incredible Victoria Garrick-Brown. Thank you, Viv. I'm excited to be Here. That was hot. We got a lot to dive into. Yeah, we have so much to chat about. And honestly, I'm so glad that we're getting together for this podcast. The last time I saw you was at one of your favorite restaurants, Elefante. Oh, yeah, for your book launch. Yes, yes. And I remember you making me eat the gray sludge that was actually delicious. The whipped eggplant. Yes, yes. The whipped eggplant. So good. Great. I guess it kind of looks like gray sludge, but that sounds unappetizing, sludge. It was whipped eggplant, everybody. It was delicious. It was truly delectable. But I do want to roll the tape back. Back to college. You were a D1 volleyball player at USC. I played a little bit of volleyball, but I was not very good. So this is honestly so impressive to me. To break the ice, I do want to know, how much money do you think your parents or maybe yourself have spent on sports growing up? Everything from getting to competitions, the clothing, the uniforms, the ball, what have you. What does it really mean to be a neighbor? It's just everyday people, you know, it's just people who are retired. They have a couple hours in the afternoon, so they're going to do patrols. And it's people who are, you know, real estate agents, you know, driving around, like, trying to track how ICE is moving and alert neighbors when things are not safe. The rise of mutual aid in times of crisis. That's this week on Explain It To Me. New episodes, Sundays, wherever you get your podcasts. Oh my gosh. On it, like thousands and thousands of dollars. I actually, because I knew you were going to ask this, looked up the current cost of club volleyball and it's anywhere from like $5,000 to $15,000 a year just to have your daughter like playing a club sport, even then being like contention to play at the collegiate level. And that's not even including the flights that like a parent or a guardian would need to book to be at the game to like chaperone their 14 year old, 13 year old kid. Yeah. It's so much time, effort, money, a lot of sacrifice. Every fourth of July, you're in a convention center. Every Father's Day, every Mother's Day, it's like, sorry, mom and dad, we are going to be in a convention center and not see sunlight for eight hours. You know, and I'm so grateful to my parents who supported my dreams because sports were just such a huge part of my life and really helped shape the woman that I am today. and it's just it's a huge sacrifice I think behind every high performing athlete is a family or tribe of people who did a lot to help them I know Rory McIlroy just won the masters and the story of his parents like working multiple jobs and just everything that went into him to then be like a grown man with kids later in life finally win this tournament you know yeah and of course like it's amazing that you know you and I probably had families that were able to help support this but like it's a real bummer because I wish everybody got this opportunity because I have to imagine there are certain athletes that go into lower cost sports just because their families may not be able to afford the horseback riding or the ice skating or you know some of those sports that are just really expensive definitely I was very privileged and blessed to have the ability to be able to do all of that. So, um, yeah, I think it's a huge issue and I mean, yeah, you do hear, who was it? Ah, he was in the U S open last year, I believe. I can't believe I blanking on his name, but his dad was a, um, he worked and helped clean like a country club and that's how his, and they lived in a shed in like a tennis shed. And that's how his son got exposed to playing tennis and like picking up reps because they weren't members of the club, but his dad worked at the club and he someone fact check me I feel so bad and he is now one of the best tennis players in the world but scraping and clawing for those opportunities as a kid I mean that's crazy and you talk a lot about this on your social media that while you were playing volleyball in college was kind of around the time when you started to like notice your body like have any sort of opinion about it because I think when we're little kids, we're just like, okay, like I exist. But like, what do you think was like the first moment you were like, I am thinking about my body in a way that is either positive or negative? Well, I wish it could have been put off until I was like 18 years old. But unfortunately I was thinking about my body and my image and my weight at a very young age. I mean, I have memories of stepping on the scale at my Yaya's house when I was in elementary school and paying attention to the numbers that were there. I feel like the first thing that really sparked it for me was I went to a sleepaway camp when I was maybe in sixth grade. And I accidentally lost weight because we were eating on the camp hours. You didn't have a snack. It was just different. You were really busy and we were really active. And I came home and I remember stepping on the scale which why is the sixth grader stepping on a scale um and noticing that the numbers went down and got a compliment that I looked so lean and I remember thinking what does lean mean and the person said oh it just means skinny and like lanky and I was like oh okay I got a compliment I lost weight a plus b equals c this is a good thing and I think that really kicked off my obsession in a sense with looking skinny being skinny um which led to restriction and a lot of disordered toxic habits in the pursuit of this perfect body do you think that that kind of mentality for college students these days has been made worse due to the nil era where there's now dollars related to your persona and how you look and maybe the clothes you wear and all of that? It's an interesting question. I don't know if I think there is a huge correlation between body image issues and NIL money, but I think there's a huge relationship between an athlete's mental health and the NIL obligations and opportunities because I was feeling stressed, anxious and depressed with just the academic and athletic schedule that I was enduring between 2015 to 2019. And I couldn't monetize my name, image, and likeness. You couldn't talk to agents and build your brand. I built my brand because I was thinking about it strategically. And then I was able to monetize once I was no longer on the team. But for those four years, I didn't have the pressures or the opportunity to do that. So while I do think it is a great thing and I would choose for athletes to be able to monetize their name, image, and likeness, it adds such a unique pressure because now you have an 18-year-old that's not only away from home, adjusting to their new life in school, trying to do well in these huge college lecture halls, also having a five-hour practice block, traveling every weekend for games, trying to get on the court. And guess what? Someone wants to represent you. There's agents in your inbox. You know, are you signing the right contracts? Do you have the right people in your corner? Oh, and then here's the brand deal is going to go live. And now we're going to work with this team. Like, and your agent wants you to make money and do these things. Your parents hopefully want you to be okay and enjoy college. You probably want to make sure you squeeze all the juice out of it before it's too late. very overwhelming yeah oh what do you think was probably the best investment you ever made in your physical or mental health during that time and how much did it cost i would say going to therapy for the first time in college was the best investment i made in my mental and physical health because it allowed me to be able to continue to compete and reach the goals I wanted to achieve on the court. As far as what it cost, I was really grateful and privileged to be at a school like USC where the student athletes got free therapy services. So that didn't cost anything at the time. It's obviously a huge shocker when you are, you know, in that little bubble and then you graduate and you're like, oh, I want to keep going to therapy. And they're like, oh, great. Well, it's going to be $300 an hour, depending on, you know, at least the one that I wanted to see. And so, yeah, paying out of pocket for that. But I just don't think there's a price that can be put on my mental health for me and my husband I talk about this a lot when it comes to like working out at the gym or a personal trainer or workout class or a therapist and counseling I'm like that's not where I want to skimp like okay maybe I'm gonna make my coffee at home or whatever we're gonna meal prep from Trader Joe's instead of buying dinner every single week but when it comes to my mental health and wellness that's an area where I will be more generous and luxurious for myself. I think everyone has to figure out what are those buckets for you. Yeah. And, you know, you mentioned therapy was really helpful. What do you feel like was kind of your turning point of having really, you know, toxic behaviors or feeling really out of control with your body image to becoming kind of who you are today, who I feel like is just such a like a beacon of light shining. And like when I see photos of you, I always think, wow, she looks so beautiful and then for you to swipe to the next page and be like, hey, by the way, that really, really beautiful photo you just saw, that was me. 10 seconds later this is what a normal human body looks like How did you go from being someone who openly admits to hyper editing their photos to being comfortable being you Yeah And being comfortable showing my body with stretch marks and my stomach rolls and with body hair and all the things that I grew up seeing not be celebrated and honestly be photoshopped. And, you know, how did I make the switch? I wish I could say this is the one quick answer like anything worth achieving in life it's going to take time dedication and effort and I come on I want the overnight success story no um I you know had to hit my own rock bottom which was I had a binge eating disorder and I was restricting and counting calories and obsessing over food and then secretly binge eating at night thousands and thousands of calories stealing my roommate's food then crying because all I want to do is be skinny so how could I have just broke my diet and ate all this food. Tomorrow we're going to go harder. Tomorrow we're not going to eat because we double ate tonight. You know, I was really in this extreme yo-yo pattern. And eventually I just hit such a rock bottom mentally. I got to the place in a depressive episode where I started to question how I could put my life on pause. I wasn't recognizing myself. And I think it was just the accumulation of so much negativity and feeling like I got so far away from hopefully the girl you think you know today, like that spark that has always been in me and was in me and faded and realized that I needed help. And it was when I started to open up to people in my life, like first started to open up to a teammate who told me she sees a therapist, which made me think I could see a therapist, opened up to my mom about the body image issues. And, you know, she sent me this. We love your mom, by the way. I love my mom too. She sent me a book called Breaking Free from Emotional Eating, to which I got it in the mail the week after I did this big thing, which was tell her I have an eating disorder. And I get this book and I'm like, oh my God, I'm literally mortified because I can't even say the words I'm a binge emotional eater. And here's this book that says Breaking Free from Emotional Eating by Janine Roth. Great book. And I was like, mom, I cannot believe you sent this to me. And she was like, you know, I read it years ago and I just found it in my dresser because you told me you were struggling. I'm like, mom, it's brand new. There's a Kepler's receipt inside. Like, you just bought this. And she was actually still plastic around this book. I'm unwrapping it as we speak. And she was like, I just wanted to help you. And I just was Googling. And this is supposed to be a bestseller. And anyways, I read that book. It just came at the right place in the right time. And started to tell me about intuitive eating and listening to my body. And I remember it said, it doesn't matter how many calories are in an egg white. Do you want an egg white? And I was like, no. I want a normal yellow egg. I want the whole thing. Why are we eating egg whites? And I just started to feel confident about seeing things differently. And also, I think with my mental health and the anxiety and the depression, when I was gaining the coping skills and learning about why I had fallen to this place and that it wasn't just my fault, but I was in a really intense environment. The stakes were really high. The pressure was on. No wonder an 18-year-old who hadn't been exposed to this type of intensity before was crumbling under the pressure and needed help. And so I began to feel empowered by all of that. And that's what inspired me to become the advocate that I am today and really try to champion that for other people. I really think sometimes it does take just getting to your most rock bottom to say, I'm sick of this. I don't want to live like this anymore. I was at war with my body. and that's what I come back to all the time today when I see that Ozempic and Manjaro and all these GLP-1s are the popular thing and my favorite celebrity is losing weight and you just you re-see the messaging of be skinnier be skinnier be smaller and I'm like I want peace with my body yeah and I'm not at peace with my body when I'm pursuing thinness wow I feel like I need to take a second that was like a full soapbox moment but it's so true and so right. And you mentioned kind of like this change. I feel like in the early aughts, there was like this ultra thin look. And then it became the curvy is beautiful look. And now we're kind of like back on the smaller you are, the better. Like, do you have like a perspective on like, why these beauty trends change? One. And two, like, why we feel so compelled to follow them? Like my body should not be a trend. I feel like it's this really sparkly kind of mesmerizing thing where we all want to be accepted, loved, and feel normal. Yeah. And so when everything around you is telling you that to be accepted, loved, and normal, you need to look this way, it's going to influence you, especially if you're really impressionable. And what you just described with the body cycles I've thought about for many years. You learn what is beautiful from society. Then you attempt to be that thing. Then you seek validation from your friends, community. Am I this? Comment on my Instagram and say skinny mini so I can feel good. And then guess what? Society changes the standard. You learn the new standard. You attempt to be the standard. You seek the validation. The standard changes. that is the roller coaster that we're on and it doesn't end. And so eventually when I was able to kind of see it from the outside looking in, I was able to essentially unsubscribe and say, I don't want to be a part of the different waves that are happening because it's exhausting. It makes me feel like shit about myself. I can't show up the way I want with my friends, family, or even in my own life with me. And I would rather be in the body that my body is naturally supposed to have, my natural set point weight, and live that peaceful life instead of trying to change it. Because if we all ate the same foods, if we all did the same workouts, we would look different. If you and I, for a full year, got on the same eating regimen and did the same workouts and we stuck to it and we went to bed at the same times, we would still look different. Our bodies would be different because we're born with different bodies. And so I think when we can begin to accept that, look, it might be hard to love it. It might be hard for someone who's thinking, I know my shoulders are really broader. I know my hips are really broader. My waist isn't as small as I want. You don't have to love it yet, but can we at least accept the fact that we can't genetically, I mean, unless you go to plastic surgery, which that's a full separate thing. Let's say that's out of the picture. We can't change it. The only option we have is acceptance. And once we can accept, we can respect, we can begin to respect our body, and then we can slowly start to like it. And then hopefully we could love it. I needed this conversation like in college. I needed this conversation in high school. But let's flash forward now. You are now a full-time content creator. That is the aspiration for so many people. They actually did a survey of young children and it was like 49% of them want to be YouTubers. I'm like, we need plumbers. We need electricians. Please pick any other job. Really? That's fascinating. But what was your moment? Like, when did you know that you're like, oh, I'm good at this. Like I can make content for a living. I feel grateful to have lived a few lives in this business of content creation. I never was not doing this and then thought, let me make a TikTok one day. My trajectory started a bit more organically. The very first video of me that essentially went viral was the TEDx talk I delivered in school about student athlete mental health issues and the mental health crisis. And that started to take off in college. And a friend of mine on the lacrosse team at USC asked me to be in her video because she had a YouTube channel and I was kind of gaining some traction. It's this mental health advocate on the volleyball team. So I was like, sure. So I went and I did the video with her. And I remember thinking, I could, I could do this. Like there was a camera like, and you know, personality. And it was reminding me of the music videos I used to make with my friends on iMovie when I was in seventh grade, you know, like, and I loved that stuff. I actually, when I look back, I always used to be like making videos and, and I liked that a lot. And I was a journalism major. I loved being on camera. I love being on stage. Like, you know, so that part of it was natural. And then I remember going home and ordering a camera and then starting to vlog. And so I started to share more of my life as a USC volleyball player. And then my YouTube channel started to grow. And then I started to post more on Instagram because the YouTube following was going to Instagram. And I was like, well, I got to give them something to look for here. And then I was also public speaking. And so So I was doing a few things. I started my podcast. So it was just kind of very a natural evolution. And then I think where I really was like, ooh, I have a pulse on this was in 2020 when I got on TikTok. That definitely changed the trajectory for me as a content creator because I think I had a strong YouTube following. But then my Instagram was maybe 30,000 followers. And then when I got on TikTok, these were the days. This is like when people talk about when you got in in Silicon Valley back in like 2002. I remember this. I feel like when you got on TikTok in 2020, like you were hitting something special. People who did it before then, hats off to you. But 2020, my husband Max all the time is like, damn, I should have been on TikTok in 2020. It was like you could post a video that would go viral and gain 50,000 followers while you slept. Yes, yes. And so I just started growing on TikTok and strategically also trying to expand my niche. I had done a lot of athlete advocacy work and volleyball content. And now I was like, okay, I'm not a volleyball player anymore. I graduated and I need to dive into some other things to connect with people. And so I started to open up more about my body image issues and talk about body neutrality and body positivity. And then that kind of brought in this whole new audience of women, which I loved. And ever since then, you know, you're constantly evolving. And now I think I do more just lifestyle with a heavy dose of realness, mental health and body love. And I love that because I get to talk about my family, my friends, my marriage. um so I think your question was when did I know that is a long long story but I definitely love what I do and I feel so grateful every day I think this is one of the best jobs to have yeah um and we are lucky uh we we are both full-time content creators but we actually have a you know Kevin Bacon's degree of separation in between the two of us how we actually got introduced was our friend Natalie. Yes. Shout out corporate Natalie. Boop, boop. First name corporate, last name Natalie. No, literally. But you guys actually grew up together and there are photos of you like tater tots, like just little kids. It's so funny to me that you both went to the same high school, played volleyball together, and then ultimately both ended up in this line of work. Talk to me a little bit about the comparison game with your friend who was on the lacrosse team, with Nat, with like anything. Has it ever felt competitive both in how you approach your careers and creation and all of that, especially knowing that content creation can be such a quick turn industry? Yeah, I think that that definitely can happen for people. I feel grateful that Natalie and I have such a pure friendship that we've never let it get competitive. And there were times where it could have, right? Like, for example, when Natalie first was really taking off, I remember there was like an article. She got this E! News like top creators to follow. And I remember and I had been doing this for a few years before she started. Yeah. And I remember someone said to me, like, I think Natalie or her mom sent the link. And I was like, how cool is this? And then someone was like, oh, like, why aren't you like an E! News creator? Like how do you feel about it Like I could tell that she was like baiting me to be like yeah I bummed And I was like yeah yeah yeah I was like was like it so I remember in that moment like it was almost for myself and for this person being like it so not like that I like I want her to crush it and succeed and also I always thought Natalie is not was is the funniest person on the planet earth like and I will stand by that statement I will stand by that with all the celebrities and comedians Natalie is the funniest person on the earth to me um and so actually I was a huge proponent of her doing this business like I literally remember calling her and being like I cannot believe you are just like selling your soul to corporate because you're a star I'm like you are literally a star like it's not fair forget what you want it's not fair to the world that like you're keeping yeah this to yourself yeah and so I was so happy when she started to build her business and take off and um now Natalie has double the following that I have she's surpassed me in every way we used to talk about brand deals and be like I'm getting this and you're gonna get this and we're gonna get paid the same and now I'm like I know you're getting paid double but like tell me what you got paid so I can just make sure that like I'm in the realm um and I honestly think you know how do I like cope with that because I do think there are a lot of especially women because we have been told to be pitted against each other and that there's only room for one of us to win literally in every movie I was thinking about this the other day in every movie in every tv show growing up especially our generation we saw there was a nice girl and there was a mean girl high school musical there's Gabriella and there's Sharpay yeah in the Hilary Duff show there's Lizzie McGuire and then there's that mean yep there's Kate we just were shown that and so I think it like in a weird way convinced us to be that way with each other and I say that to all and all that to say I feel like I am so happy with the blessings in my life that her success is not like a dig at mine just the belief that someone else thriving means you could not thrive or you could not be happy I don't think they're connected and I think our ego jumps in and thinks oh if they shine I can't shine and that's like that's not true like everyone eats everyone wins um and I just feel so blessed and grateful with what I have and I wouldn't want to trade lives with anybody and I think in this career you can always gain another follower you can always add another dollar like it's never ending and so at some point you do have to feel like enough is enough and you're happy with where you are in your business and regardless of other people and I feel that way um and you know I literally the next thing I want her to do is a Netflix special so I just keep manifesting I'm like you know when she was my special guest on book tour I was like what is your dream job and she was like I want to be a stand-up comedian no she didn't say that because she doesn't did she say that I feel like she told me that in the green room she no because we're like talking about her behind her back no no she does not if she said that because she always says that she doesn't want to do that And I'm like, no, but you would be the best at it. Yeah, she would be. So if she said that, I'm glad. But like, there's no way. If she said that, she's just like, because she keeps saying that she will, but I think she needs to be. Yeah. I will say, speaking of like women empowerment, Natalie will say female standup comedians have to degrade themselves a lot. Yes. You can't really think of a female comedian that their whole skit, they never take a dig at themselves. Yeah. And I do think, okay, every comedian, men too, take digs at themselves. But I think she has a huge point that especially for women, you know, it's a lot of if you're not making jokes, degrading yourself sexually, visually, like, are you going to be as successful? I don't know. And I respect that she's like, I don't want to build it on that. Yeah, I agree. So now, you know, this is a money podcast. So I have to ask as a content creator, break down for me, how are all of the different ways that you are making money? and then tell me which of those is the most lucrative. Yes. So I have a few revenue streams. I would like more. And I would like a few that are more reliant on me, which we can talk about. I would say 70% of my revenue comes from brand deals and partnerships. So that requires a brand and me working together. I would say, well, actually, maybe it's 70% that I would say maybe 17% my podcast real pod. 17. Yeah. Vic, that's a very specific number. Oh, really? I'm just, 10 felt too little. Yeah, okay. And then I don't even know. Wait, so now I'm at 97. Oh no, 80 plus 17, right? No, you said 70% is brand deals. Oh, I said 70, not 80. 17% for the podcast. Perfect for 87. So 87. I would say add 6% of that as like speaking fees for public speaking. why are you not picking i don't know okay maybe i should be more no no six percent speaking okay give me the last and then the last thing i would say is like affiliate links and like miscellaneous revenue okay um but i would say the biggest thing is brand deals then it's my podcast then it's speaking and then it's the miscellaneous things like affiliate linking and like my shop my account okay um but what i was gonna say before is i don't think it's a flex to say 70 of my revenue is brand deals. Because that's not a smart plan for the future. The fact that I will have to rely 70% on another brand having a campaign that I fit the bill for, that we work together, it's way too high risk for a girl like me. I think it's fine now. Well, I like to work and I like to thrive. But I ideally, and I'm already working on and thinking on building out revenue streams that are not reliant on a brand working with me, but are reliant on me and maybe something I've built and the audience that I've fostered to provide value to them in a way that they would maybe want to pay for. So that's something I think about a lot because, and I hope this is a good warning for all creators to be creative with your audiences and with the opportunity you have to create something that could add value to someone's life that they would pay for because we just can't be 40 with multiple kids trying to pay for their colleges and like pay for our mortgage and be like, and I need these brands to hire me this year. I don't like that feeling. And I have a little of that now. And that like dependency on like, I have to stay in the new cycle. I have to be top of mind. I have to be chosen. Like it's like a pick me, pick me. Yeah. Type of energy. Definitely. And I've had a brand that I've worked with for multiple years in a row on, you know, a really exciting contract and that didn't get renewed. And that's scary, you know, because I'm like, I don't like to talk about numbers, but Vivian inspires me. So that's a six figure contract that I had for a few years and then wasn't renewed. Just nothing personal. Just like I get it. Everyone, you know, you move around. But that's a huge number to have to like, OK, where are we going to get that this year? Because for three years, I had it somewhere else. So, you know, and then I think that's just part of the game. You have to be smart with your money because those things happen. And then you want to find a different partnership or hopefully another path opens up. But just kind of staying even keeled throughout the ups and downs of the industry. And I know, thank you so much for being vulnerable and sharing that it was a six-figure contract. But I think something that isn't talked about enough is that while the top line for influencers and creators are these very shiny, exciting, sexy numbers, talk to me a little bit about the costs of running your business. Like, what does something like that cost? What does a brand deal cost you to make? What does a pod episode cost you to make? Yeah. I mean, I have a full-time employee. so I chose to hire a brand director who is incredible and like helps keep all of the aspects of my life together I feel like she's just like constantly playing whack-a-mole and I'm like la la tiktok no not really but um so she's incredible and I did that instead of hiring a manager that takes 15% and an agent that takes 10% you know I think that people get excited and they sign all these contracts and everyone's getting commission and it's just like I don't think it's that black and white that it depends on what the person does but I very much look at I once was at an agency that was taking 20% and I'm like yeah and I'm like okay let's break down I'm I literally made an excel spreadsheet and we had a meeting and I said so 80% of the brands that we do deals with come to my inbox right so those should maybe be 10% because I'm bringing you a deal that then you get to you know negotiate and commission but it would be completely different if you brought something to me that I wouldn't have been able to do on my own so I'm very specific about like the rev split and then the contribution that's happening. Sometimes in this business, unfortunately, there will just be companies and certain things that say industry standard is 5%, 10% and you can't negotiate that. So then just don't have legal. And I'm like, I need legal. Yeah. So it depends. But yeah, I have a full-time employee and then I have an editing team that helps me with social clips for the podcast. I mean, if we just break down the podcast, because that's top of mind, we were just looking at the P&L. Let's say a podcast in general, Sorry, you guys, I'm not as vulnerable as all the guests. No, please, you're doing a great job. Let's say a podcast makes $100,000. Yep. And then you've got to pay $15,000 for an editor to cut social clips throughout the year. And then you've got to pay $6,000 for someone who edits all the audio, does the titling, writes the descriptions. Then you're going to pay studio costs. Yep. You're going to pay anyone who's on your team that's helping you book your guests. You're going to have a booker. I mean, you're most likely, you're not even going to profit 50%. Oh, there's a network cut for the ads that are being on the show to make the show money. So there's a lot that gets cut away from the pie. And then, oh, by the way, let's not forget Uncle Sam. We have to pay taxes. Yeah. And in states like California, where you live, they're high. Yeah. It's sad. I remember the first years paying taxes. And I literally, I think one day I was so distraught and I was crying. And then I was like, Victoria, get your life together. This is everyone who fucking lives in California. Like, who do you think you are? I suddenly was like, this is what it means to adult. So yeah, there's a lot I put back in my business, but I love that. And I actually think, especially at this place in my career, let's pour it back into the business. Like, let me invest in an incredible editor or an incredible employee so that I can now be in six more places than I was when I did everything myself. So I don't think it's a bad thing to invest back into your business. I know Gary Vee is always the person who's like, you want to drive a Maserati and you want to be in the penthouse suite? No. live in a studio apartment with your car from six years ago and spend that 60 grand on the employee yeah so now you have two people working on your dream and then in 10 years you can have the Maserati and the xyz thing so I definitely am huge on like I love I once had someone ask me you know how do you not feel stressed every month because you don't know how many brandos you're gonna have or how much you're gonna make and I said I live below my means I've lived well below my means for a variety of years saving up for a house saving up for um retirement or not saving up for retirement I guess so. But investing in my retirement. I hope so, Vic. I am. But I feel like when you say it as saving up for retirement, it sounds different than what I mean by putting it in the account that I can't access till I'm older. So yeah, I think I like staying in a grind phase and having more money to play with than being like living right at what I'm making. I don't want every dollar being spent. But I also, yeah, I don't want every dollar being spent on material items. And I don't want every dollar being spent on the business. I find a happy medium. Yeah, I think that's great advice for everybody. Let's talk a little bit about something that you do spend money on and spend your time on. You are actually the founder and chair of the board for the nonprofit The Hidden Opponent, which signed a global partnership with Adidas and launched a custom sneaker. I mean, talk to me about what that is and why it's important to you. It is insane to even hear you say that, Viv. I'm like, me? My nonprofit, I founded a global partner of Adidas? Like, what the heck? because yeah, it sounds wild. And with a nonprofit, so it is a nonprofit. So I am not profiting. I make $0 off of the hidden opponent. But that is the cause and the philanthropic endeavor that I've chosen to champion because I was an athlete who struggled with my mental health. So that's what I want to support and show up for. So that honestly how I don feel guilty I think there times in life where there a variety of great causes And I do want to support more than just athlete mental health But I know that every single week used to be every day but I am pouring in just free time and energy on building something that is serving thousands of athletes because that's what I care about. We do have a C-suite employee and a CEO who is paid a normal traditional salary. And then we have a part time employee and then we have more freelance help and then we have volunteers. But yeah, that's been something that has just been a huge passion project from the beginning and the partnership with Adidas. I mean, honestly, I'm a huge build it and they will come type of gal. I think a lot of people create this really fancy pitch deck and they want to go to their parents, friends or their teacher or their teacher's friends and be like, this is my vision. Give me your money. Like hype it up. And it's like, no, you have a cool PowerPoint, bro. You don't have a proof of concept. And I think, especially with the hidden opponent, like I didn't go around asking for donations and for money. It was built on the backs of myself, Leanne Passaro, our chief operating officer, and really passionate student athlete volunteers who were just like giving to the cause because we cared about it. And then five years later, somewhere in a room in the country, Adidas is giving a presentation to a school and they say, what are some organizations that you guys really feel impact your lives? And a student raises their hand and says, the hidden opponent. And Adidas says, what's the hidden opponent? And they say, I can't believe you haven't heard of it. This is the Instagram. This is the website. This is what they do. And then Adidas emails us and we're like, oh my God, is this real? And it was. And hop on that call, hop on another call, hop on another call, and then create this partnership, contact a lot of people. Wait, how do we do this? What kind of conversations that we have. Speaking of my brand director, Jenna, she's got incredible business acumen. She was someone who was able to hop on the calls and had more experience there. I think if you're going to hire someone, hire someone who has skill sets you don't have. And so yeah, we got that partnership over the finish line. And then it just continued to unravel in the best way. And we were able to do the custom ultra boost and Adidas is able to support our campus captain chapter so that we can give them grants to create a deeper impact on their campus. But I say that all to say, like, you know, I believe we should do the work and then that work will be rewarded. I think that comes from being an athlete as well. It's like anyone can say I'm going to win the game or I want to win the game. But like who's in the gym longer every day? So that's kind of how I've approached business. You only have a certain number of hours every single week. Like how do you decide how to split your time between the hidden opponent, which is your passion project, your love. I can see it when I talk to you about it, but also brand deals and speaking and things that like pay your rent, pay for groceries, pay for your lifestyle. I've definitely been very meticulous about my time in recent years and my calendar is very color coded and every minute and hour is accounted for, even if that means it's break time. I had a 20 minute break in my calendar today just to dick around on my phone before I got in the car and came here, you know. and I think like we were talking about the hidden opponent it's now at the sauce in place where I'm not working on it every day and now weeks pass where I'm not involved there are times where I need to be more involved like with the Adidas launch was probably the most I got involved from a marketing perspective and all of that but I feel grateful to have such an incredible team there that I don't have to be involved and that's actually amazing right when you can build something new place and have incredible people who can continue expanding on the initial vision and it doesn't necessarily have to be you because I want to do it just as well as you can. Yeah, because I want to pour into my own business. So I would say, you know, a majority of my time is spent on content creation, brand partnerships, podcast interviews, prepping for podcasts. I do some calls. I've definitely gotten very particular about that. Like I think in the beginning of my work, I would kind of take every call and everyone wanted some of my time and I would do it. And I definitely have learned that not everything has to be a call. Someone else could take a call for you and give you the information. That's been a really exciting level up. I definitely love relationship building and I've done that my whole career. But at some point you just can't respond to every message, which is sad. But I think something that helped me, because in the beginning I'm like every DM I wanted to respond to everyone who messaged me. And then at some point you literally can't. And you have to tell yourself, if I sat and responded to every DM, I couldn't actually be the person or create the content that is inspiring the DM in the first place. That creates the impact. And so it's like, as much as it hurts my heart that someone has sent me a beautiful message and I would love to be like, I'm so happy you've grown in this way and I'm deeply touched that I had a small part. I also, I'll do that. Like I get in my DMs every week, but I don't kick myself if I don't respond to every single DM and every single DM and every single email because I need to do the thing that's created it in the first place. Yeah. 100%. And I think like you have to think about what is going to do the most good and cause the least amount of harm. And it's like, how do you optimize? Yeah. And for any business owners out there, people who feel similarly, like you're being pulled in a lot of directions and you're a nice person and you don't want to say no and you want to help and give back because people gave back to you, but you just can't take every call. I think there's just a few things you can do as barriers to entry to optimize your time and help teach someone else a little bit about the business. So I got great advice from a former professor of mine because I was like, you know, I get these emails. And especially if you went to USC, like I want to help you. And then you hop on the call and they're like, oh, yeah, like I just think what you did is really cool. And like I just I just wanted to talk. And yeah, like, you know, how did you get started? And I'm like, OK, I've made a podcast about how I got started. I've done like this, these. It doesn't feel like you prepared and it doesn't feel like I'm actually creating value for you. And it's not it's not the best use of my time. And it's in a sense like a little rude. It's not rude, but it's like if you ask me a question that you could have Googled. Yeah. That's going to make me upset. Exactly. And so what I'll do now is if there is someone who reaches out, I'll be like, I would love to hear about XYZ. Please send me over the questions you plan to ask so I can come best prepared. Yeah. In the three times I've done that so far, they don't respond. Because they don't want to do 10 minutes of work, but they want 30 minutes of a call. So that's helpful. Also, if I'm ever hiring now, I will ask for a video to be sent because right away you can just tell the energy. You know, you might get that on the Zoom, but we don't have 20 minutes to put on a Zoom with someone. And you can also say, here are three scenarios for the job description. How would you handle each of these situations? And you can see right away if a person's like, oh, I would do this and then that. And then I would check this file and that. Or if they say like, I would just make sure that everything was good the day before. And like there's a punctuation error and it's not done well. So I think I do – I try to do a lot of like upfront to then help evaluate before we need to get on a call together. Yeah. 1,000%. No, I think that's something that we as business owners have to learn. And I think – I don't know if this is the case for you, but I feel like the people who reach out and request or demand the most of my time are like, frankly, people that may have known me in college and weren't particularly nice to me then. Really? And I'm like, we're not friends. That's tough. It's weird. Yeah, that's tough. I haven't had that situation, but I would, yeah, if I were you, that's especially unique. And I will say, like, I do dislike the stop asking me to pick my brain culture because I think it's- We have to do favors for people. Yes. We have to. Yes. And I love it. I go back every year in at least one or two classes at USC that I took and I talk, volunteer just to the students because I carry that much. and like I want that. I do think, yeah, the can I pick your brain and then you do what I just described is wrong. But I think to reach out and say, hey, I'd love your advice on my career trajectory, I'm not sure, and I love the way you've done XYZ is powerful. And I've even done things where when I now reach out to someone in the business, I reached out to someone recently who's awesome and I was like, I would love your advice on some things. Oh, and I attached four TikTok ideas for your business account. that I think would crush. And so it's like a little give get like, oh, and hey, and I just did something for you for free just because I know your time so valuable. And like, maybe this could help you and I'd love your help. Yeah. Unfortunately, we are starting to run out of time. So I have two more questions that I want to ask you. And I think these are kind of like interesting, deep, introspective ones. When do you feel the most beautiful? I feel the most beautiful. honestly after in everything shower and I've done a Dyson blowout okay and I had unlimited time to do my makeup in my mirror listening to my music and I have a little drinky drink there and it's one of those nights where I love the outfit I picked out the first try yeah oh that never happens for me and no never so I'm like that would be that would be it um and yeah I think I think that when I've taken the time to like pamper myself by doing my hair and doing my makeup and then whether I'm just going to grab dinner with Max or I'm going somewhere fun that's probably when I feel the most beautiful I love that I feel like it was supposed to be when I wake up and I look at myself in the mirror with no makeup no like no not even a little bit I feel beautiful during those times but I feel more beautiful when I've done all this yeah when I've done all the pampering well I think I feel most beautiful when I am able to represent myself how I hope others see me. And maybe that means getting professional hair and makeup or that maybe means just, you know, achieving a goal that I'm working towards. But like I want people to see me the way that like I want to see myself. And I don't see myself that way always, but sometimes. I love that. When you are seen, you feel beautiful. Yeah, Exactly. And to kind of wrap us up, where do you hope to take your business in the future? I am actually currently studying to become an intuitive eating counselor, which I'm very excited about. So I DM'd you about this, by the way, because I was so curious what it was. Really? Yeah, we talked about this. Oh, did we? Okay, cool, cool. It might have been over text. I'm Dory the Fish memory. I feel so passionately about helping women break free from all the shackles that you described about dieting and being unhappy with your body. And I feel like I know so much from my lived experience, but I wanted to couple that with expert experience. And so that's what I'm working on right now and just really diving into the material. And then from there, going to think about the best way that I can help in like a really mainstream, relatable way to just get rid of all these freaking eating disorders and to bash diet culture. So that's something I'm really excited about for the future. And it's something I've always wanted to do and the timing feels right now. I'm so proud of you. Is that a weird thing to say? Thanks. No, it's not. That's like cool. I appreciate that a lot. And it's been really fun to care about something and then take the time to like dive deeper into the material. Yeah. Thank you so much for being with me here today. Thanks for talking money. And please tell everyone at home where we can find you. Thank you for having me. You can find me on Instagram at Victoria Garrick Brown anywhere. Check out The Hidden Opponent if you're a parent or an athlete or passionate about the mental health cause. Amazing. Thank you so much. Thanks. Thanks for tuning into this week's episode of Net Worth and Chill, part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. If you liked the episode, make sure to leave a rating and review and subscribe so you never miss an episode. Got a burning financial question that you want covered in a future episode? Write to us via podcast at yourrichbff.com. Follow Net Worth and Chill Pod on Instagram to stay up to date on all podcast related news. And you can follow me at yourrichbff for even more financial know-how. See you next week. Bye.