114 | Part 3 of the Life, Lessons, and Legacy of Dick Tomey: Coach Dick Vermeil Reflects on Coach Tomey's Impact

This is Becoming Undone. I'm gonna go ahead and apologize to my friend and mentor Maggie Lacombre right now. I'm sorry, Mags. I hope you'll still love me after you hear this story. Alright, for everybody else, I will start with this. If you're listening, there's a pretty good chance for friends here, right? Aren't we? And friends can be honest with each other, can't they? There's something I need to get off my chest that's been bothering me for way too long. I'm not proud of it, but for a time, Dick Tomie helped keep me alive. Oh, he didn't know it, but during one of the toughest chapters in my life, grad school, his leadership and his compassion actually played a role in my survival. It was 1998. I was a wet behind the years graduate assistant athletic trainer at the University of Arizona, alongside two other GAs, Aaron Barnett from Purdue, Mitch Doyle from Iowa. I joined the Wildcat Sports Medicine team with big dreams of making a big impact. And when we hired in, we were told there were three spots available for us. One was football. One with volleyball and one with gymnastics. After a week on the job, the staff assigned us to our teams. I had my fingers crossed I was hoping to land that coveted football spot. Volleyball, a decent consolation. But gymnastics, I was terrified. Tiny girls, the words serious injury and risk of death literally written on a warning label on every single piece of equipment in the gym. Lord, please let me have something other than gymnastics. I prayed as I've since learned I shouldn't have dared God to give me what I didn't want because that's exactly what happened. You guessed it. I ended up with gymnastics, the very thing I prayed to avoid. But all wasn't lost over the next two years. That placement became exactly what I needed. I got to work with some incredible coaches and incredible athletes for two full seasons. But in 2000, I finally got my shot at football. But let's not get ahead of ourselves here. We're talking about 1998, not 2000. As the non football GA, I had a different role. While my primary focus was gymnastics, I also helped head football athletic trainer Maggie Lacombre with a few tasks to help out for football. For instance, on game days, I got to work the visitor sideline along with second year GA's Cindy Machaud and Lisa McDonald. If the visiting team needed anything, X-rays, extra water, anything like that, we were there to coordinate. And I enjoyed every moment. Yet as fulfilling as that was, that wasn't what kept me alive. Coach Tomi did. Let me explain. Now, if you're not familiar, as a grad assistant, I received free tuition for my master's degree and eventually my doctorate and a whopping $11,000 annual salary. That was barely enough to scrape by. My wife, Kristi and I lived in the U of A married student housing, Christopher City, a place so luxurious that it would be condemned and bulldozed the year after we moved out in 1999. We were surviving on discount groceries, one car, no cable and no cell phones. Kristi likes the joke that we had plenty of helper, but couldn't even afford the hamburger to go with it. Those first two years especially, I remembered two things. How many hours I worked and how hungry I stayed. With just one car between us, I usually had to catch the city bus in Tucson. And that meant early mornings. And as a pretty poor planning and borderline poverty living grad student, I usually skipped breakfast. By mid-morning, my stomach would taunt me, growling, reminding me just how stupid I'd been, not to scrape something together for breakfast. But as hungry as I was, we couldn't afford for me to eat out or buy lunch somewhere. Every once in a while, I'd manage to splurge and spring for a hot dog at the McHale Center concession stand that was open for lunch. Most days, I'd just push through till dinner when I got home, surviving on a single meal. In the Tomi era of U of A football during seasons, Fridays and sometimes Thursdays for road trips, those were a highlight of the week. Which Tomi ran a tradition called scout ball, a scrimmage for red-shirting players, walk-ons, those not expected to play in the game. Starters and guys playing in the game on Saturday would cheer on their teammates, who'd worked just as hard but had no shot at the limelight on game day. It was fun, but it wasn't just football. It was a celebration of brotherhood, camaraderie, a moment where every player, regardless of their role, got to feel valued. What could make a celebration better? Snacks, of course. After the scrimmage, the players celebrated with candy bars, granola bars, Gatorade, and water. As the host, graduate assistant, athletic trainer, during the week, it was my job to order and collect those snacks from our concession storage. Keep them from melting in the Tucson heat and have them ready for Friday's scout ball. I'd usually pick up a case of Reese's Cups, a case of Twix, a case of Peanut M&Ms on Tuesday, maybe some granola bars, and I'd stash them under my desk, covered with a towel, to keep any would-be thieves away. Until one day that first year, that thief was me. One day my hunger hit harder than usual. I was desperate, I was lightheaded. I stared at those snacks sitting under my desk. Surely one pack of Reese's Cups wouldn't be missed? I snuck it out, tore into the wrapper, quickly devoured, threw away the wrapper and covered it in the trash, grateful for the relief, but deep down embarrassed by my actions. I wish I could say it was a one-time thing, but sadly more often than not, those snacks became a bit of a lifeline. For three years, I've relied on them more than I'd like to admit. I never knew whose idea the scout ball was, or who decided to pair it with snacks, but if I had to guess, in my mind at least, it was all Coach Tomey. Scout ball was a shining but not isolated example. Through his leadership, he regularly fostered a sense of family, who haunt that he'd learned on the islands, a culture where everyone, even those on the fringes, felt seen and valued and cared for. And looking back on it now, almost 30 years later, that culture didn't just sustain a team. Indirectly, it kept a broke grad student like me alive to work another day. So friend, I ask you, please don't judge me. I was weak. I was hungry. And I made a series of poor decisions. I know if Coach were around to hear me tell this sorrowful tale, he'd be ashamed of me. So in the name of making amends, I'd like to offer up a public apology to Coach Brennan in the U of A football program. I did the math. I didn't swipe candy every day. But just for the sake of argument or for simple computation, we'll say five times a week for 12 weeks of the season for three years. So let's see. That's 180 total candy units that I potentially lifted from 1998 to 2001. And back then they went for around 50 cents a piece. So we're at 90 bucks. Adjusted for inflation. It's $175. And it's only fair that I throw a modest 7% interest rate. And we're looking at an ending balance of $245.45 for me to make up for the crimes of my past. I'll be contacting Coach Brennan and staff to make that donation to the U of A football program in hopes that I can long last make things right. I feel better already and hope you didn't mind me coming clean at last. If you stuck around this long, God bless you. I guess it's worth mentioning I'm Toby Brooks. In addition to being a podcaster, a speaker, an author back in the 90s and early 2000s, I spent three years at the University of Arizona as a graduate assistant athletic trainer. I didn't know it at the time, but I was part of the staff for Coach Dick Tomy's final season with the Wildcats in 2000. I'm quite sure that Coach Tomy didn't know it, but he helped sustain me during those lean years. And I'm not proud of it. But I can't tell you without question, I'm thankful for the fact that I got to see one of the best coaches in the game teach not just football, but life. Over the past two weeks with guest Slantz Tominaga in part one, and Mike Flores in part two, he said the coach didn't just build teams. He built men. But after thinking about it some more, I realized that doesn't tell the whole story. He built people. In a world consumed with trophies and banners and titles, Coach Dick Tomy never won a national championship. He never even won an outright conference championship. But if you talk to the people who played for him, coached alongside him, or worked with him for a time, they'll tell you. Nobody shaped them quite like Dick Tomy. Sadly, we lost Coach Tomy to a brief but valiant battle with cancer in 2019. But I've been thinking about that, and him, a lot lately. And as I've grown up as a professional, I've found myself aspiring to lead, and looking deep into the leaders of my own past that I'd like to emulate. And if you're like me, Coach Tomy is at the top of that list. Famously, coach was frequently quoted as saying football isn't complicated. People are. I think the same could be said for just about any line of work. The job isn't complex, but leading people sure is. And I've not seen many do it better than Coach. In a profession dominated by wins and losses, Dick Tomy created a legacy that endures decades after he coached his last game. It's that legacy that I've been thinking about ever since. How did he do it? How did he inspire so many to follow him, to believe in him, and to carry his lessons forward, not just into their careers, but into their marriages, into their jobs, into their lives? These are questions I just can't shake. So I decided to do something about it. I've decided to dive deep into the stories of one of the most transformational leaders I ever got the chance to serve. With you joining me in this journey, we'll get to hear from the people who knew him best, his players, his staff, his family. We'll explore the moments that defined him, the values he instilled in others, and the lasting impact he left on the game, and on everyone he led. We've walked with him through those early years in Indiana, his first head coaching job in Hawaii, his time in Arizona, the legendary Desert Swarm Defense, and that school record 12-1 1998 squad, and finally his return to the sidelines at San Jose State. I said earlier this would be about 10 episodes, but the deeper I get, the more I want to learn. So I make no promises, I'll backpedal on that already. We'll go as long as we need to go to keep learning. And in the process, I think we'll both not only get a refreshing chance to remember a legend, but we'll also learn what it takes to lead and love and serve our people better. You're listening to Becoming Undone. And this, this is the life, lessons, and legacy of Coach Dick Tomey, a Toby Brooks passion project. Join me tonight. Man who needs no introduction, Hall of Famer, Super Bowl champion, Coach Dick Vermeer. Coach, thanks for joining me. My pleasure. My pleasure. It's fantastic. This was really grown a lot. This idea started as really just honoring Coach's legacy, talking to some players, and over the past few weeks, have really had a chance to connect with some people that were instrumental in Coach's life and subsequently how he's impacted others. So I want to start at the beginning. And then that's really my reason for having you here is talking about Coach before he went to Hawaii, before he went to Arizona. So take us back to UCLA in the mid-70s. You had a tremendous young staff, tons of remarkable things, including a young Dick Tomey. How'd you first connect and what was your first impression of him? Well, I first met Dick Tomey when I was an assistant coach at the Los Angeles Rams at Chalk Knox would take us over to watch Spring Practice at USC and UCLA and spend a day with the coaches. And Dick was an assistant coach there for less. You know, at that time it was Pepper Rogers, Pepper Rogers. And I got to know him just a little bit there with the rest of the guys. And then, you know, a couple of years later, all of a sudden I'm called back to be the head coach of Pepper Rogers League. I had a month and a half or a month, at least a month to go or more with the Rams with my responsive or before I could assume the head coaching position. So I kept seven of Pepper Rogers staff up to stay there with me and assign Lynn Styles as to be the assistant head coach and take over and be the defensive quarter, which he already was. And then kept the other guys in there and a month and a half or so later I show up as head coach. There's Dick Tomi and staff. And from there on, we just grew together, you know, and it's really easy to grow together with a Dick Tomi type personality, type coach, type man. And I was so fortunate, very, very fortunate. And I'm so grateful today, many, many, many years later that I made the decision to keep seven of Pepper's 10 man staff because the second year we beat Ohio State and then we team in the country of Rose Bowl. All of a sudden I pulled away to go and offer the opportunity because Philadelphia Eagles. Yeah. Oh, you know, that was the time I met Dick and really got to know him. Yeah, tremendous. Have a lot of good stories on Dick. Even two years. He's a amazing guy. He was very intense, very compassionate with his players, very loyal to his players. He didn't want to be anything else to discipline. He wanted to be the guy I can. I can remember being so tough on a guy that I would say, geez, nice. He defended the ball well, knocked it down. A dick would be upset. He should have intercepted it. Yeah. And he was an exceptional recruiter. Yeah, probably our best recruiter. Wow. He could recruit. There's just no, I don't think he lost a player the two years we worked together. And not many after that with Tarraghani, you know, I, yeah. And we'd have recruiting parties at my house on Sunday morning. Out in Woodland Hills, we had a swimming pool and I'm, I'm sitting there about helping my wife get the barbecue going and all that stuff. And, and I look out the window and Dick is demonstrating pedaling techniques to the pool that we have about 14 guys there. Some of them defensive backs and all positions. And he's backpedaling and he backpedals right into the swimming pool. Close, watch, wallet, everything. Okay. Now that was funny enough, but only Dick told me would do this. He climbed out of the pool, went right over to the spot that he'd backed him to and started lecturing again. Right out of the golf thing. Like he even felt fell in the swimming pool. He was amazing by that way. Of course, you know, he was very successful to there. And then like you already mentioned, went on to university Hawaii for a number of years and did a great job there. And fortunately he got the opportunity to go to Arizona. And he turned that program around. Yeah, we did an unbelievable job here. I don't think they ever really totally appreciated the quality of work he did there. Sometimes administrators just don't know what they don't know. Yeah, but he did an unbelievable job there. I was in broadcasting at that. Right. So I would go in and spend three days in preparation. I'd go in on Thursday, watch him practice Thursday, be there Friday through the game Saturday, fly home Sunday. And even got to stay close to day. Years after we weren't coaching together and he did it as fine a coaching job as it could be done at that place. Yeah. I mean, Nebraska, USC, all those schools, but he couldn't go to the Rose Bowl. Yeah. What I think he would the bowl gauge six, seven times in this era that we're in. And when he leaves, they don't have a winning season for seven years. OK. Let me jump in right here and add some data to what coach for meal is saying. He's talking about the U of A years specifically where coach told me went 95, 64 and four, 59.51% from 1987 to 2000. He was named the Pac 10 coach of the year in 92 led the team to the highest ranking to finish the season in school history at fourth in 1998. And he remains the winningest coach in school history. And that 1993 team finished in the three way tie for the Pac 10 title. Somehow that wasn't good enough. I was there for that 2000 season. Expectations were high and our season started solidly. We opened the year on the road with a solid Utah team and one 17 to three. We lost the next week to number 18 Ohio State 17 to 27 in a tough close game at home. The injury bug bit us hard. And for much of the remainder of the season, we were down to six and sometimes just five offensive linemen by week six. We had won a triple overtime barn burner against Washington State to move to five and one and entered the rankings at number 22 that week. Then the heartbreak began. We didn't win again. The next three weeks we lost by a combined 10 points. I spent the game on the road at Oregon and the ER was one of our most impactful players who was injured on a dirty hit on a punt return. That didn't even result in a flag. Our five and one season in the hunt for a conference championship ended a disappointing five and six losing to ASU and failing to get that Aloha whole birth in the process. Despite all he'd done, coach Tommy was being pressured to step down. If I ever find the gutless dirt bag who created fire Dick Tommy dot com. It was a classless and cowardly act that proved it's not the body of work, but what a coach has done for you lately that mattered. I left U of A at the end of that school year and it was hard. I still loved the players who I'd left behind Tucson, but I couldn't find it in my heart to cheer for that new regime. As it turns out, there wasn't much to cheer for anyway. U of A brought in John McEvick, who was run out of town midway through his third season, amassing a 10 and 18 record. Like Hank Witz took over and the team went one and six down the stretch. He was replaced by Mike Stoops, who wouldn't post a winning record until year five of his tenure. So all together it was eight years before Arizona will go to a bowl game or have a winning season after coach Tommy left. Wildcats had given up on a coach who had posted just three losing seasons in 14 years for three different head coaches who would take eight years just to get back above 500. And as much as that proved just how remarkable coach Tommy's tenure had been and how difficult sustained winning in Tucson might be in a conference with massively funded programs like Washington, Oregon, UCLA, USC, even ASU to compete with year in and year out. That wasn't even the most remarkable thing. Just like at Hawaii and just like at UCLA before that, it was the Mark coach left on the people that mattered the most. So that shows, but even more, I think if you talk to people that coached, he was far more than just a football coach. He left an unbelievable, causing impression on the kids and the coaches that worked more. He was up. He loved the coach, the guy that wasn't quite good enough to be good enough. Yeah. He loved the coach that so well said that was a perfect get it. He'd make him perfect and they would ascend that. He had remarkable ability to do things like that. He should be in the collegiate of all faith. Yeah. They have a rule. You got to win 600%. He's like a five eighties up then. And that's the most disrespectful rule in college football. Yeah. Howard Snowberg. Part six. And whenever you take over a losing program, you know, it's going to take time to build it that he built a program. Right. Today. It would be classified as a climate builder, a philosophy builder. There's all kinds of terms that throw around a national football. They die. You know, he can build an atmosphere where people could win in. He just, yeah, that's him. He couldn't. He didn't have to try. I was just him. Right. I'm so fortunate. I know him and work with him and then remain close to it all the way up to speaking at his funeral. Oh, I'm Ramlin, but you know, I think so much of him. It's easy to talk about. Sure. Very, very. No, absolutely. I think one of the things that I've had a little trouble with with the documentary is, is the life before Arizona. That's where our paths crossed. Hawaii, there was a good book, but, but his story before that is a little less well told. And so I really appreciate your perspective. It's fantastic for a head coach to have. I mean, in the moment, it probably stinks to get your, your staff poached by other programs, but that's what you want as a leader. You want your assistants and your coordinators going on other places. When he took that Hawaii job, what do you remember about that transition and how did he share the news with you? Could you give him any advice before he made the jump? Well, you know, I said, Dick, it's not a real good job. He said, well, if he says coach, it was a good job, it wouldn't be hard. Somebody, somebody'd be already there doing it. So he went there and he built a Dick Tommy culture within the Hawaiian culture. And he fit. Yeah. He fit, you know, and he loved it there. He loved visiting him over there and now he's speaking to Gake went over there and spent a night or two with him and just, he just loved that place. It was it is what, but it fit his profile as a person, as a floss. You know, Dick didn't really coach football. They coached people at late football. And he built that within the kids in that time. He, he, I think he, what a few guys I know that enjoyed being the underdog. He liked the challenge of doing something with some situation or some person that had done. Yeah. He was a bastard. Yeah. The best I was ever around, I think, in a baking kids feel they were really better than they were. So they played that well. They played better. Yeah. Yeah. So many of coached Tommy's former players and assistants talk about those lifelong relationships that they built with him. What do you think it was about him that made people stay connected long after the X's and O's and the specifics of football? He was innately compassionate. You know, he couldn't help himself. He could always see what's really good in you. Even when you've done some things wrong and things aren't going well, maybe you're transferred from another college or this or this coach on the staff couldn't get along with them. So they moved to this position. He could always see what's best in you. Sometimes before the person he was evaluating or coaching even do it. I saw him do that in just in the two years that I worked with him physically day in and day out of recruiting trails and home visits and on the field, squad meetings, team meetings, a one on one meetings. He just was as good as or better than anybody I've ever been around doing that. Can I learn from it? I learned from him. I stole from it, you know, because he was a great example. Yeah. Great example of how to communicate with people. That was a meeting when tough. Bro, he could be tough, but someone else better not criticize that guy. Oh, it's his baby. And for sure, you've no doubt been around some characters and football. And I love the story you shared of the pool deck and climbing out and picking up right where he left off. Any other classic Dick's, Tommy stories that make you laugh to this day? Or very first recruiting chip. Home visit. One of Dick's guys out in Orange County. I'm Ed Gucci. You'll see I had making a home visit. We stopped. We have to eat before we get house. We stopped 536 o'clock to eat dinner. And I think it was called Marie counters pie shop. That's where he wanted to stop. So I go in and I order a hamburger type thing for dinner. He orders a piece of pie. He said, what do you have for dinner? I said, I'm having pie. I like dessert. Most better. I like anything else. So I always have it first. So, oh my God, he ate group pieces of pie. I had an hamburger piece. It's very logical. Yeah. What I like best. Hey, hard to argue with that logic for sure. You know, Dick, the scene would believe was very thoughts got very, he never acted like he was, you know, he never tried to, he never tried to or try himself as a genius, you know, but he was very, especially on, on the left side of a spring. I mean, there was no way a player could con me. They could read what's on that player's mind or my mind or anybody else who's good with. He was always on top of things that way. Yeah. I had coached Dino Babers on last week for an interview. He was a player for coach Tomi then worked as an assistant, worked his way up the offensive coordinator. And coach Babers mentioned like, when you saw into the depths of those blue eyes, you knew you were in trouble. Was there ever a moment when you thought about that intensity that this Tommy guy is a little crazy in a good way, of course. I would see that from time to time when a defensive player during practice, I thought made a real good play and I would congratulate him and Dick would show him out to be the full words made good enough. Here in direct contrast with the head coach was saying, I left the practice. I didn't give the guy a break. He says, coach, I'm setting the standard and he will meet it. He can do it. He can do it. One of the kids, I can't remember his name. One of the kids a couple of times. I confronted him on that. He was on the practice was the kid that intercepted the ball in the Rose Bowl. It finished the game. It finished the game that we won. Oh, I was there with no one team in the country. Yeah. And he was that he was the kid that intercepted the ball. He did knock it down. Didn't bat it down. He intercepted it. And I had to think even then I think got that stick to me. That stick to me. Yeah. He kept that standard just a little bit higher. Yeah. One of my favorite tomeisms is you're either coaching it or allowing it to happen and he cultivates that excellence in you. When that trickles down from whether it's his coordinators all the way down to, you know, the student equipment managers, it doesn't matter. Everyone had to rise to that level and I loved that about everybody was important. Everybody in the program was important. Yeah. His coaching staff and his coaching staff was was a configuration of different personalities and different racial backgrounds and educational backgrounds and that kind of stuff. It wasn't all Ivy League and it wasn't all down here. It was it was a nice blend of different personalities and he could put them together. Yeah. As well as anybody I've ever been around. Yeah. I think there's no doubt he had some some old school aspects to his his coaching. But I also think that that translates and that transcends generations. Football changes from generation to generation. What do you think modern coaches could learn from coach Tomi's approach to the game and his approach to players? Well, I could be demanding and compassionate at the same time is a hard mixture. There's some guys that override the demanding side at the meaning side, you know, I once I was a head coach at Hillsdale High School and my assistant John Gilmore too was coached the varsity and his dad had been a head coach in California for 45 years. And one day his dad was there at Brackas and I asked his dad, he's 45. Your coaching. What's the most important that he said to coach can't make a champ out of a guy you continually call it show. Okay. And I never got that. Just I'd never forgotten things John wouldn't said to me or Chuck Knox or George hour, Tommy Bro through or the good coaches. I've been around the broad dial hours that Terry Donnie, you see, these guys, I've been around, you know, the Mike Marches, Al Saunders, these guys, you know, and you learn a little bit from everybody. Dick told me, left a broad impression of a lot of things that I built in to me because it fit me. Hit his way up dealing with people and his compassion, his passion for the game, but his passion for the people. That was sort of in me as well. I, I know when he was there as long, I really got to watching coach, not so much in a wide because I was working. I got the, when I went into broadcast games, fair big games because when you, when I went into college broadcasting, when we went to do big college games, I was with the number one guy. We're putting out a natural television. So we'd see him compete against the best. And you'd say, you know, these, these guys aren't quite talented. It's who worked out quite this week, but they might beat them anyway. And they did. Yeah. You know, I think he's the only guy beat Miami and Nebraska the same year. Yeah. When they were really power outs. Right. But that, those kind of things, yeah. It excites me to talk about it. You know, I think about them often. Yeah. About them well. Yeah. I think in the years that have passed since his passing, his players, his coaches, his staff, have really had a chance to kind of sit with and realize the impact that he had. And I think speaking for myself, I know he had an impact on me at the time, but as I've aspired in the leadership and doing other things, I realized just how the lessons he taught in the example that he gave really serves well. And it cuts across football. It's just people skills. He had a technically, I mean, he was no pushover as a technician. Excellent. Oh, so he was excellent. And he also recognized people that were excellent and he would allow them to be excellent and he would provide them a player in the frame of mind to be coached, to be pushed, to be demanded, to be disciplined, to be loved. You know, this had no problem talking. He loved it. I would. Well, coach, I sincerely appreciate your time. I know you're busy. Yeah. Your backdrop is definitely more impressive than mine. I can tell you that you've built all the fame career. You've impacted so many lives. Looking back, what does having a guy like Dick Tomi on your staff mean to you personally? Well, I think the accumulation of Dick Tomi. And the respect when you work, when you work with the Dick Tomi, a Terry Donnie, Mike White, these kind of guys, Rob Dowell, or these kind of, you know, these kind of guys, it doesn't leave you. It's inside you. And all of a sudden it adds depth to what you are as a teacher, a coach, and a man, you know, and I will always be just so great that I had the opportunity to really know him and know him. Well, I knew him on his biggest wins. I knew him when it's most disturbing losses. And he would always come out right here. Yeah, he will always come out right there. And I never heard him blaming buddy. I never heard him, well, this junkie, junkie, junkie, this he cost a sick. I never heard that kind of guy. And I used to hear that from coaches all the time, especially me, well, this third bird, he did that. He did these coats better than I never heard that from Dick. Yeah. Oh, no. Yeah. And you know, Terry Donnie was the same boy. Yeah. You know, just like I heard Troy Aikman, actually, Terry Donnie's celebration likes to say that, you know, Terry Donnie, most positively influenced him in his life than any coach he was ever around. Well, Dick told me, did that for the same caliber of people, same caliber of players for many people as well. And but they were on same staff together. Yeah. I do not greet that staff most. Yeah. Yeah. But, you know, Dick told me as I would say, one of the top five people, men coaches that I was ever around on the field. I need you to realize what high praise this is from a hall of fame and shrine and Super Bowl winning coach, considered by many to be one of the top five all time head coaches in NFL history. He also holds the distinction of being named coach of the year at four different levels, high school, junior college, NCAA division one and the NFL. He's coached alongside legends like Bill Walsh, George Allen, Chuck Knox, Tommy Prothro, and he famously coached with his whole heart. Legendary St. Louis Rams, wide out Isaac Bruce once said, quote, it was an everyday thing like the moon going around the earth. He was going to cry. End quote. I spent many of my formative years as a Cowboys fan rooting against Dick for meal when he led the Eagles. But I later loved to hear him call games with Brent Musburger. I later cheered for him in St. Louis. And I celebrated his enshrinement in Canton and the pro football of fame and think that through all those experiences, all those victories, all that impact, all those incredible people coach for meal at the tender age of 88, still recognizes Dick. Tell me in his top five. Well, that's absolutely remarkable. Man coaches that I was ever around on the field. Hey, I'm coached with four or some of them was after 28 different NFL head football coaches. So I have great ad births for him and I'm grateful for what he passed on to me. Well, coach, thank you so much. One last question. I've been asking this of all my guests. Coach had a brief book valiant battle with cancer. He was taken too soon. If you had a chance to sit down with him and have one last conversation, what would you share? I would share appreciation. I would share appreciation. I don't. I didn't have. I knew I had opportunities to visit with when he was in, you know, in a tough situation, but I can't. I can't tell you what we were actually saying at that time. I don't know. But I had such respect for him and I appreciate what he passed on to me. Okay. What he gave to me. Yeah. And now he's special. He's, he's choking up. Think about it. Yeah. Special. Yeah. That's well said. Uh, his, his impact goes well beyond the field for so many people, myself included. Why? It's a shame. It's a shame that he is not in the collegiate hall of fame. He's better football coaches than half of those guys in there. And they're all good coaches. Yeah. And, uh, it's just amazing they have that thing. They've done the same thing. I was over. Yes. It made a rule. They don't have guts enough to change it. And they don't have maybe enough people are really recognized who really did. Great job coaching. Name the last guy I ever lost to get was at losing seasons at Ohio State. Yeah. Okay. They don't come around. Oh, there's a lot of guys that are in situations. They're great coaches, but they're in great situations. Yeah. They told me could when he goes to San Jose State, the editor's drive of San Jose State along, you talk about a tough situation. His second year there, he goes, he wins nine games. Yeah. I don't know if they won nine games since maybe once, you know, it just, I'm, I'm amazing. Yeah. What he could do. And same thing in Hawaii. I mean, programs that were strapped for resources on the national scale and in Arizona, yeah, resources are better than Hawaii or San Jose State. But if you look at how they compare to the rest of the Pactan at the time, they're still, you know, fighting with one hand tied behind their back. And, and you're right. Having success with those kinds of obstacles speaks to just what a phenomenal job he was able to do. 112 games in Hawaii. You want to hear 12 games there? Yeah. Yeah. He was coach at a WAC conference coach of the year there. Yeah. Well, coach, thanks so much for your time. It's surreal for me to speak with you, grew up listening to you call NFL games. So this is, this is a real tree for me. Thank you. I appreciate the opportunity to take care of yourself. Thanks so much, coach. You know, I'll just say this, Dick's son, Richie came to the Hall of Fame when I was in Duffield. He was there. Yeah. He'll be on the show soon. I'm finalizing details to get him on as well. So, uh, yeah, thanks so much. What an honor and an incredible conversation with coach Vermeel, his passion, his insight and his deep respect for coach. Tommy were on full display, hearing his stories from UCLA to Arizona, from the sideline to the recruiting trail really underscores the kind of leader and mentor Dick. Tommy was, he wasn't just about football. He was about people. He built cultures, transformed lives. Unless the last, it's a rare gift. And it's coach Vermeel so eloquently put it, it's one that deserves far more recognition than it's received. So I reflect back on this conversation. I can't help but think about the power of legacy, not the trophies, not the wins and losses, but the relationships, lessons and the impact that echo long after that final whistle. Coach, tell me how to coach for a meal has it. And if there's one thing to take away from this episode, it's this, the greatest coaches, the greatest leaders aren't just remembered for what they did, but for who they helped others become. I'm thankful to coach Vermeel for dropping in and I hope you enjoyed our conversation. For more info on today's episode, be sure to check it out on the web. Simply go to undunpodcast.com backslash EP 114 to see the notes, links and images related to today's guest. Take for a meal. What did those early years reveal about the kind of leader coach Tommy would become? Join me next time when I sit down with four time Super Bowl champion Jesse Sopolu, who was there for it all. He'll take us inside those early Tommy years, the highs, the challenges and the moments that define Dick Tommy's coaching career for the world really knew his name. From there, we'll sit down with coach Rip Shear, who worked with coach Tommy at both Hawaii and Arizona. And we've got a long list of other guests, including coach's son, Rich Tomy, as well as players and coaches who once shared the field and sidelines with him. So stick with me. We're just getting started. No way I'm going to get this done in 10 episodes, but I don't care. We'll take what it takes. This and more coming up on Becoming Undone, the life, lessons and legacy of Dick Tommy, the Toby Brooks passion project. Becoming Undone is a nitribe creative production written and produced by me, Toby Brooks. Tell a friend about the show and follow along on Facebook, Instagram and LinkedIn at Becoming Undone pod and follow me at Toby J Brooks on Facebook, Instagram and LinkedIn. Check out my link tree at link tr dot ee backslash Toby J Brooks. Listen, subscribe and leave me a review at Apple podcasts, Spotify, I heart radio or wherever you get your podcasts. Remember, you're either coaching it or you're allowing it to happen. Till next time, friend. Keep getting better.