This is Becoming Undone. Alright, let's play a game. Word Association. Edward Kimball. Nothing? You've got nothing for Edward Kimball? Alright, let me give you some clues. Quiet, unassuming, volunteer Sunday School teacher in the 1850s committed to helping teach and mentor young men in his hometown of Raleigh, Massachusetts. Still nothing? Me neither. Fair enough. Okay, now promise me, stick with me. I promise, I swear. Pull up a chair. This is a good one, kids. This has something to do with Dick Tomey. During one of his regular Sunday School classes that he taught, often filled with teenage boys, Edward Kimball asked the class to turn to the book of John. One of the young men he probably didn't even know yet was new to church and new to the Bible. Cheapishly, he didn't know where to turn it. When he looked toward the front of his borrowed scriptures, the rest of the class laughed at him. And if you didn't already know, there's not much shame like the shame church kid regulars can give if they see you looking for a book of the Bible in the table of contents. Perceptive and recognizing the young man's embarrassment, Kimball gently handed the young man his Bible, open to the correct passage, with what I'll presume was a reassuring nod. I don't know for sure, but it made a difference. The young man was deeply impacted by this act of kindness that this gentle teacher had given him, so he decided to keep coming back. After more than a year in his class, Kimball had been wrestling with the idea of approaching the young man outside of church to talk to him about his faith in a more personal setting. Initially, he hesitated. I've done it. You've probably done it. A feeling in your heart that you need to have a conversation, but it's a hard conversation. Lots of times I chickened out. And although Kimball would later recount doubting himself, ultimately he went through with it. He pressed on. He did it. Eventually, he walked into a small shoe store where that embarrassed teen from a year ago was working. Kimball stepped into the back room where that young man was stocking shelves. Nervously, Kimball placed a hand on his student's shoulder and he shared a simple message of love and of faith. He'd later retell it. It wasn't a grand sermon. There was no crowd, no spotlight, no choir, sure as heck no smoke machines, no band. Just a quiet, heartfelt conversation between a caring teacher and his listening pupil. That day, that young man gave his life to Christ. That young man was Dwight L. Moody. Maybe you've heard of him. Today, the impact of Moody's work is all but immeasurable. My office at Baylor is in Moody Memorial Library. Many Christian college campuses have buildings with the same or similar names. Moody's later impact as an evangelist and a publisher eventually led to tremendous impact and success. But maybe more importantly, changed lives. Because that encounter, that one conversation that Kimball almost didn't have, changed history. Because Moody went on to personally share the gospel with millions. But even if you haven't heard of Moody, the ripple effects didn't stop there. Moody mentored J. Wilbur Chapman, who then influenced Billy Sunday. Sunday reached Mordecai Ham, who would later preach at a revival in North Carolina, where a fiery teenage farm boy came specifically to pick a fight and take issue with what he'd been hearing about Ham. Instead, that night, that farm boy made a decision that set him on a path to becoming the most influential evangelist in modern history. One who would preach to more people than any human being in the history of mankind. An estimated 2.2 billion people, billion with a B, billion, have heard the gospel come from Billy Graham's mouth. And if you look at that path, that history, that lineage, it can all be traced back to Edward Kimball, the Sunday school teacher who did his best to teach, who wrestled with his doubts, but eventually just simply showed up and spoke to a single young man. I looked. I haven't seen any other records in history of anyone else that Edward Kimball led to the Lord other than Dwight Moody. We often think about legacies as this crown jewel, this pinnacle work of great men and women standing alone in the spotlight. But legacies are built in moments of impact, quietness, back rooms, the shoe stores, quiet conversations in an office, in relationships that are forged far from the spotlight. And sometimes they're forged in a quiet conversation between a young aspiring coach and his mentor at school 86 outside of Indianapolis. Before he was a coach, before he was the architect of some of the most tenacious football teams and especially defenses of his era, before his name was revered in many college football circles, Dick Tellmee was just a kid from Indiana with potential. Born June 20, 1938 in El Norah, Indiana, he wasn't even really a football player. And despite being a three year varsity catcher for DePaul University in Green Castle, Indiana, he wouldn't even describe himself as an athlete. But don't just take my word for it. Let's listen on this speech I found on YouTube from the Pima County Sports Hall of Fame Class of 2017 induction in Coach Tellmee's words himself. I wanted to be an athlete and I really wasn't one. And I was a young, I was a fat little kid that my nickname was Tubby and it was well deserved. But I really wanted to be an athlete. I tried real hard to be an athlete. I tried so hard that I played until I was 69 years old. I played baseball, but I never was one. So let me get this straight. A baseball player from basketball crazy Indiana would go on to become one of the most prolific defensive minds to ever lead a college football team. That Dick Tellmee. Yep. That Dick Tellmee. Except it almost never happened. Just like Dwight L. Moody had Edward Kimball. Dick Tellmee had Hank Johnson. I started out as a junior high coach and really had it not been for a young man, a guy named some of you know, named Hank Johnson, who used to live in Tucson. He walked across the street, right across the street from Butler University when I was a young junior high coach at school 86, which is a very glamorous name in Indianapolis, Indiana. And Hank just asked me when I was in my second year, what are you going to do with your life? What are you going to do? And I said, I want to be a coach. Hank Johnson wasn't and still isn't a household name. He wasn't a legendary coach or an award-winning athlete or someone whose impact could be measured in championships, at least not that the internet in 2025 can tell me. But what he was mattered even more. He was a mentor, a guide, a man who saw something in that young junior high coach by the name of Dick Tellmee that Dick Tellmee himself might not have even recognized yet. And friend, if you're listening and your life has been impacted by Dick Tellmee, then your life has been impacted by Hank Johnson. And he said, I know that, but what's the next step? And I said, well, and long-term planning obviously wasn't my specialty at that point because I said, well, maybe I could go to Shortridge High School because that's down the street. And he said, no, no, I don't mean that. I mean, do you want to move on in coaching? And I said, yeah, well, like how would I do that? And he said, well, how about if you went to be a graduate assistant someplace? And I said, well, where would that be? And he said, well, I would start and I would look at Miami of Ohio, which was, I was in Indianapolis, that was in Oxford, Ohio, not far. So that's how it all started because I started at Miami, Ohio. Johnson didn't need a massive stage to change a life. His influence was found in the lessons he instilled, the standards he upheld, and the encouragement that he provided. He believed in Dick Tellmee, and that belief helped shape the foundation of a coaching career that would go on to impact countless players, coaches, staffers, and fans. Until recently, I didn't realize just how far the echoes of his impact could reach. If you've stuck around this long, I guess it's worth mentioning that I'm Toby Brooks. In addition to being a professor, a speaker, and a podcaster back in the late 90s and early 2000s, I spent three years at the University of Arizona as a graduate assistant athletic trainer. I didn't know it at the time, but I was part of the staff for Coach Dick Tellmee's final season with Wildcats in 2000. And time is a funny thing, because at that time I was just trying to survive. I was working with athletes sometimes 60, even 70 hours a week. I was going to class. I was learning to be an adult, and it's been said that the only way we can really appreciate having been in the midst of greatness is to leave it. Friend, back then I didn't realize I was witnessing the final chapter of a legendary career at Arizona. But as time has passed, I've started to realize that my time at Arizona was about more than just survival, that the people there were incredibly special, and that Coach Tellmee wasn't like most other coaches. The day after episode one in this new series dropped last week, I got a message from the first head coach I worked with at Arizona, Bill Reiden. In 1998, at a time when I was just learning what it meant to be an athletic trainer for the Wildcat gymnastics team, Bill was also taking a new role as the head coach for the team after a successful tenure as Bill Galt's assistant. And Galt left some pretty big shoes to fill. Coach Galt was an Arizona legend in his own right. But Bill, Bill handled that transition incredibly well. And I got a front row seat to watch him inspire, encourage, and pour his heart, soul, and life into young student athletes, who, whether they realized it or not at the time, needed him even more than he needed them. I had Bill on as a guest of Becoming Undone very early in the show, episode seven. Can't unless to it yet you should. I'll drop a link in the show description. Bill is an incredible story himself. He's a literal rocket scientist who decided that instead of chasing dollars and building propulsion systems for nuclear warheads, he would devote his life instead to building up to serving the world by speaking life into young gymnasts and more than a few assistant coaches and even a graduate assistant athletic trainer to along the way. All that to say in my mind, Bill stands at the top with very few other people as a leader and a shaper and a molder of others, which is why his words and a realization I hadn't had until just that moment hit me so hard. In a Facebook message that he sent me last week, he writes, quote, Toby, I'm loving this new mini series you're doing on Dick Tommy brings back many memories for me when I first started at Arizona and witnessing Dick and his philosophies with every topic you bring up. I'm reminded of things I hadn't thought of in years end quote. In the years that have passed since I was at the U of A. I followed coach Tommy's career. I cheered for his underdog San Jose state teams even became a San Francisco 49ers fan for a minute. Early apologies to my upcoming guest Jesse Sapolu for that one. I didn't know you yet, brother. But I knew that that long list of student athletes that coached Tommy had impacted was incredible. These were highly touted recruits like Jesse Sapolu, Lance Briggs, many others who he convinced to come play for. And even more so, they often overlooked scrappy the chip on their shoulder walk-ons that coached not only attracted but genuinely loved guys like Dave Fipp who we'll hear from later in this series. Episode 87 guest Brad Brennan, Bert Baker, countless others who flourished when they found not just the place to play, but coach who believed in them. And of course that coaching tree he sprouted is impressive too. I'm still working on the details to get coach Dwayne Keena, coach Dino Babers and I've already spoken with Arizona's current head coach Brent Brennan. Those all appear hopefully in future episodes of this series. You know, I knew this players, football coaches, staff members from equipment manager, Wendell Neal, to athletic trainer Sue Hillman, Maggie Lacombra, others on the other side. On the operation side of the football enterprise, I get it. I got it. I understood. But until Bill's message, it never crossed my mind that coach wasn't just impacting the Arizona Wildcat football team and those immediately are surrounding it. He was impacting the Dick Tommy cinematic universe. Other coaches were learning and applying his lessons of toughness, of grit and an unwavering, fierce love for student athletes that trickled down to every interaction and every sport and every athlete. More recently, I had former Arizona gymnast, Mary Rison in episode 111. Mary had a highly successful collegiate career and she opened a gym of her own in Tucson. Renowned for her love and care and commitment to her young athletes, Mary's brand of gymnastics coaching is different from what a lot of young gymnasts have experienced. And it's a blessing. Mary had had tremendous coaches herself growing up, including Bill, who she had wanted to compete for from the age of 13. But friend Bill's message made me realize Coach Tommy had directly influenced Bill. Bill had directly impacted Mary and somewhere right now in Tucson, Arizona, there are a bunch of young girls who Mary coached, who benefited from that same fierce commitment and care and compassion and love that Coach Tommy had for his own athletes. And all that was because of Hank Johnson. I ran into John Pot and Bo Schembeckler who became just the most influential person in my coaching career. He and Tony Robbins, who's a behavioral scientist extraordinaire, which is what I believe coaching really is, trying to influence people's behavior. And Tony Robbins is the one that made me understand how important it is to connect with people and build relationships. In 1962, with the encouragement of his mentor, Coach Tommy headed to Miami of Ohio to take a job as a graduate assistant under legendary coach Bo Schembeckler, where he would serve for two seasons. Schembeckler would eventually go on to be the head coach and athletic director at the University of Michigan from 1969 to 1989. Schembeckler himself had been coached by Ohio State legend Woody Hayes, one of the all-time greats of college football coaching, arguably all of athletics for that matter. In 1964, Coach would go to Northern Illinois, then spend two years at Davidson before joining Pepper Roger staff at Kansas for three years. In 1967, he headed west with Rogers to become the O-line and DB coach at UCLA, where he would eventually serve as the defensive coordinator under future Super Bowl champion head coach Dick Vermeel. Still hoping to get coached for a meal on the show soon, so stay tuned for that. But all that is to say, by 1976, Dick Tommy had served directly under some of the most impactful coaches the game of football had ever known. But he didn't just learn winning, he learned people, because famously, coach would say, football is easy, people are complicated. You know, it's crossed my mind. We rarely understand how unique a new job is when we're in the middle of it, because we don't have anything to compare it to. When I was a U of A from 1998 to 2001, we had regular all-staff meetings. The entire athletics department would assemble to share info, celebrate victories together, recognize new hires, sadly even say goodbye to those that were headed elsewhere. That's just the nature of college sport. We would all pile into the main football meeting room, as the biggest space we had in the belly of McHale Center. Literally everybody, the whole staff, everybody that could come did come. Frequently it was standing room only, and the lowly GA, I was usually one of those standing in the very back of the room. Now I won't lie to you, at the time, all I could think of was the fact that I probably had worked 60 hours the week before. I was probably worried about whether Christie and I would even have the money to make rent, and I was stressed about a paper or a project that I needed to be working on for grad school. Dutifully though, I begrudgingly went to the meetings, just so I wouldn't get in trouble from a boss. But looking back, I now realize two things. First, what an incredible opportunity these meetings were. I mean, if I were able to wave a magic wand and organize a motivational conference with a confirmed speaker lineup that included only Dick Tomi, Ludo Olsen, and Mike Candrea, just those three alone, I could probably charge four figures at the worst, for the worst seats in the house. And they weren't it. We had other incredible coaches and staff members too. To quote Hamilton, simply to be in the room where it happened is, in retrospect, a highlight of my life. I didn't adequately respect it in the moment, but with time and distance, I realized what a blessing it was to have been there at that time. And finally, I've also come to realize that it just isn't like that everywhere else. Well, it hasn't been like that anywhere else for me. One hour a month where everybody comes together. It's a scheduling nightmare for most organizations, let alone an intercollegiate athletics department. It represented a huge commitment. If you do it poorly, it's just one more thing you have to do. But done well, it's how culture gets built and maintained and celebrated. Coach Tomi didn't just teach football. He taught life. And last week I said he didn't just build teams, he built men. But after thinking about it some more, I realized that that even stopped short. It doesn't tell the whole story. He built people. All types and shapes and sizes and genders and ages and races and backgrounds of people. Interprofession dominated by wins and losses. Dick Tomi created a legacy that endures decades after he coached his last game. You know, it's that legacy that I've been thinking about ever since. How did he do it? How did he inspire so many to follow him, to believe in him and to carry his lessons forward? Not just into their careers, but into their lives. These are questions I just can't shake. So I decided to do something about it. I decided to dive deep into the stories of one of the most transformational leaders I ever got the chance to serve. And with you joining me in the journey, we'll get to hear from more people who knew him best. His players, his staff, his family. We'll explore the moments said to find him, the values he instilled in others, and the lasting impact he left on the game and everyone he led. Today we're going to walk with him through those early years in Indiana all the way to UCLA. In the future, we'll dig deep examining his first head coaching job at Hawaii, his time at Arizona, and his legendary Desert Swarm Days. Finally, his return to the sidelines at San Jose State, even in his work supporting and mentoring young coaches in his retirement. And in the process, I think we'll both not only get a refreshing chance to remember a legend, but my hope is we'll also learn what it takes to lead and love and serve our people better. You're listening to Becoming Undone. And this, this is the life, lessons, and legacy of Coach Dick Tomi, a Toby Brooks passion project. Join me today is the founder and president, head coach of inner champion consulting, Mike Flores. In addition to providing executive coaching and leadership training to upper level execs and sports, corporate nonprofit sectors, including strategy consultant to two D one athletic directors, Coach Flores worked in university sports for 15 years as an assistant football coach and recruiting coordinator at UCLA, University of Hawaii, San Jose State, and the University of Arizona. He joined me today because he's a coach and coach at the University of Arizona. He's a coach and coach at the University of Arizona. He's a coach and coach at the University of Arizona. University of Hawaii, San Jose State and the University of Arizona. He's joining me today because he sent me an email to tell me he enjoyed episode one and he had some stuff to share with us about that early transition to Hawaii. I hope you'll enjoy my conversation with Mike Flores in episode 113. Mike, I can't tell you how happy I was to read your email. So I'm really thankful for you to reach out and really excited to dig into the history before the history. So thanks for joining me tonight. Well, I'm excited to be here. I have to let you know Toby that I really felt that what you're putting together has been done. I know you're at the initial parts of it, but it's been done so professionally. So that's why I actually reached out to you and felt confident about being able to communicate with you. And those can be a first class episode and a first class experience for myself. So anytime I can talk about Coach Tommy, who I think about every day and is affected my life outside of my dad, more than anybody else in the world, I'm happy to do that. That's fantastic. I thank you for those kind words and your message came at the perfect time because I actually had just finished my interview with Jesse Sapulu, but I was thinking I really didn't have much about Coach Tommy before Hawaii. I thought, I don't know who to reach out to. I was really struggling to try to find some connections and the nature of this podcast thing, unlike a book where you would do all the work and then you release it. The podcast kind of gets released in pieces along the way. So not only am I thankful that you contacted me, I'm thankful you contacted me so quickly. Well, let's start at the beginning for you. You are QBE at UCLA, when your past cross with Dick, tell me. So tell me a little bit about the person and athlete you were growing up and how you ended up a Bruin. Well, I grew up in Venice, California. I went to high school, I threw the ball about eight times a game. And I really felt strongly that the only way I could go to college and pay for it was get an athletic scholarship to my original goal was to get a scholarship to San Diego State. That time, Don Corrio was at San Luis State and that was my goal. And after I got done with high school, I went to the college at Santa Monica. It was known for producing all American JC quarterbacks. And I'd lucky enough to my second year to be named JC All-American and got a scholarship to UCLA and actually Dick for Meal, who I understand will be on the later podcast. The coach who recruited me and I went to UCLA and coach Pro Thoreau at that time was a head coach and coach Pro Thoreau as soon as light didn't think it was light in the middle or late December. He was offered to be the head coach at the lay Rams. He along with coaching middle left and coach paper Rogers was hired. Coach Rogers was here in 1966 Rhodes Bowl team. He was the offensive coordinator and coach Gary Beepin, the ice and chill for your winter for UCLA. And he came back was named coach and Dick told me was his offense coordinator and quarterback coach. So I still remember quickly the first time I met Dick. We were at the UCLA basketball game. That's where the recruits were normally put right behind the one of the one of the the post. And Dick was in a blue blazer white shirt, khaki pants and and I that's that was like what he wore. What he wore. There were a girl until he went to Hawaii. He was he had that look in his eye that you knew he was really a very serious man. And at the same time so warm warming. And then he was my quarterback coach. You know, I started my job will be by junior year. I led us to a very good two seven and one season. But by some standards to seven and one is okay. But you know, I was usually no and so they actually but Dick was my coach. He and I became very close. That was really start of our liking relationship. That's wonderful. I was actually born in Fontana in 1975 and my parents moved in 76 and so I had no idea. But there's a picture of me at a UCLA Bruins game and I'm like, I was in the stadium with coach tell me before I could even walk. Oh, that's what's cool thing. Probably the only boarding event my parents ever took me to. So coach tell me you had been at UCLA as an assistant as you mentioned 71 through 76 and eventually he was and famously a defensive mind. So interesting to hear that he was your QB coach. But your past first cross when you were a student athlete, but then he took you to Hawaii when he got the head job. So you taught me through how he shared that news with you and offered you to be one of the two people he was going to take with him. Well, he and I worked together. I became a student coach because the next year in 1972, Mark Harmon came in and he questioned the wishbone. So I was the opposite of a wishbone quarterback. I was a passing quarterback and I started coaching and I under the very under the tutelage at that time of Homer Smith. He kind of took me under his wings and Dick then became defensive back coach. But it also was the head freshman coach and I ran the offense and coach quarterbacks for UCLA freshman team. And then Dick Vermeer came in in 1974. Pepper Rogers left to go to Georgia Tech and coach Emil Keem. And as I indicated to you, coach, he was one of the one pre coaches that recruited me. UCLA was my main recruiter and I was sitting up in the offices up at the JD Morgan Hall and coach Emil walked by and he said, Michael want to talk to you because I wanted to speak with him. I said, why don't you be my staff and I want you to be my full time grad assistant. There's only going to be one of you. You'll be in all my meetings. You'll be in all my staff pictures. I shared with you, I think one of the staff pictures that I held with him and Dick told me was on that staff. Dick was our defensive back coach. Terry Donnie, he was on that staff. I'm reading a pretty note. He became head coach at UCLA. Jim Moore was on that staff. Next-level coach at the New Orleans Saints. Carl Peterson was on that staff. Later became the president of the Kansas City Chiefs. Rod Dahower was our offensive coordinator. Later became head coach of the Stanford Cardinal and that time stand for Indians. And also didn't name him as Colts. It was unbelievable staff to be under. And I have to say this about Dick as an assistant. He was in charge of the defensive backs and they were without a doubt like he was. And I want to talk about this in terms of his personality. They were the toughest group on our team. They took on his personality or the tough. They were just intense. They gave great effort every play, whether it's an impracticed or in the game. And that really was what Dick was all about. And then I went up to Coach and they left to go to the Philadelphia Eagles. I went up and coached a year at San Jose State under Ling Thiles, who was also on the Rosewell staff. Dick Stating was a defensive coordinator for Terry Donahue's first August L.A. team. And then it was probably late June, early July, I think. 1977 that Dick was hired on. And as you indicated in your previous, one of your previous podcast, where I told the story of how that all came about. And he could only bring two coaches. And he called me up and I was coaching quarterbacks and wide receivers at San Jose State. And said, Mike, I want you to come and join me at the University of Hawaii. And obviously, when Dick says, I want you to follow me, it was a very easy decision just for me to make. I love the admiration and the respect that you can hear Mike's voice here. Coach Tommy was hired late in the game in Hawaii and most of the staff returned from Larry Price's three and eight squad from 1976. Even with a nearly full complement of coaches, which Tommy had the chance to bring in only two of his own. And Mike was one of those two he called. Having been a student athlete under Coach Tommy and then as an assistant at UCLA already, Mike knew what would be expected of him. And the decision to join Coach Tommy was a simple one. But that transition and the growth process of building a program nearly from scratch, but with inherited coaches, staff and players, once he finally got to Honolulu, would prove to be anything but. I went there right away and we stayed there. Our first month, we stayed at the all the day in at the airport. Myself Bob Burke, who was the other coach he could bring in and Dick, we stayed in one room and Dick, of course, always got the bed. There were two beds and a roll away and Bob and I always had to flip coins for the roll away. Dick took the bed and that's how we started our coaching career. And then we were at Hawaii in Quonset us. We still had Quonset question World War II at UH just right outside the field. And it was it was skeletal facilities at best. But what a unique time to be at a horror with Dick and to be at the beginning of really a great saga at a football tradition at UH that they still haven't up to today. Yeah. And that really took me by surprise how late he was hired. And so the timing seemed poor on one hand, but in the grand scheme of things, the timing was perfect. Hawaii has just moved to D1. They're moving to the WAC. They've got a fantastic new stadium. I mean, everything about the program is in growth mode. And so you've got a chance to be there. But famously, as you mentioned, the prior staff had been signed to extensions. And so you and Bob Burt coming in with this new coach on paper, that's kind of a recipe for division. And it would be very easy to see my guys versus not my guys and things like that. But that's not how coach Tomi's wired that brokenness or dysfunction, I assume didn't have a lot of chance to root. What was that first season like with that staff? And what did you see him do to bring unity to that staff? Well, I think you're exactly right. How hard it must have been for the guys that were there knowing that really they were all on one year contracts because they had to prove themselves to Dick. And fortunately, there was a very good staff there in place. Rip Shear, who I took over, I came in and was there. It was the first operative coordinator and organizer and coach quarterback and receivers. I took his place. So he was bumped down to running backs coach. He had been with Joe Paterno. He was a GA for Joe Paterno in Penn State. He, Tom Freeman, there were just a group of guys that were somehow bought in immediately to Dick because it was so easy to buy into what he was saying because they understood that he was a people person first. Football was not the most important thing to him. I want to jump in right here and point something out that you couldn't possibly know just yet. But I think it tells a story about how coach Tommy was able to come in and orchestrate some healing to a coaching staff that would have logically been pretty fractured. Coach was allowed to bring in just two guys. One of them is Mike on the offensive side, fair enough. But Mike isn't just brought in to help out the offense. He's given the keys to it. Meaning he's replacing last year's offensive coordinator, Rip Shear. Now I'm sure you know this, but football is competitive. Football coaches, more competitive still. I don't know of any coach that I've worked with who would be happy to be demoted from a coordinator role, let alone have to work essentially for the guy who took your job. But that wasn't the mentality here. And I'm sure of it. Because shortly after my conversation with Mike, he sent me an email with Rip Shear's contact info. Quote, talk to Rip. He'd love to talk to you for the show. Here you go. Rip's contact info. Signed Mike Flores. End quote. This tells me two things. First, nearly 50 years later, Mike and Rip are friends. With each other's cell phone numbers. There's no hard feelings there. And secondly, Rip certainly doesn't seem to be resentful towards coach Tomy anyway. Because he's still willing to come on this show and talk about it. These two facts alone to me are remarkable. In my jobs over the years, I've taken over some teams composed of existing talent. Sometimes I've even got to bring in my own people. But I can tell you, never once have I handled the transition a fraction of as well as all the evidence tells us Dick Tomy did in Hawaii in 1977. The question is how? How can we learn from him? I'm glad you asked. Given your best was and every day that was more important. But also being with your family. It was a unique change from the staff side been on before. Dick really felt that having time with your family consistently having the families come out to practice, having come out pre game. It was very Nikol Hanna was very, very big. And it started and continued with Dick. Yeah. I've always loved that and I've grown to appreciate even more having my first guest Lance Tominaga and then Jesse Sapolu, even Brent Brennan that I just spoke with that word family keeps coming up. I think it's important to point out. Yes, he brought unity to a staff that was divided. But he also had to essentially re recruit the entire roster right away because these were players that didn't sign to go to UH to play for Dick Tomy. They'd gone to play for Larry Price. So I loved in the book where you quipped that your arrival in Hawaii doubled the Hispanic population. He was a uniter of people from all different backgrounds and he embraced the culture in Hawaii in a way that is worthy of mention in 2025. I can't imagine how revolutionary that was in the 70s. So how would you say his approach to respecting all cultures and integrating teams behind this common purpose while also keeping respect and identity impacted you as a member of the staff? I think, first of all, Dick was the best recruiter I've ever been around. I've been around some great recruiters. I mean, just some fantastic recruiters as an assistant and as a head coach. He was the best recruiter I ever have been around. And the reason for that is because when he entered the room, you just felt so comfortable. You felt like he was part of your family and that's what he was able to do with the Polynesians, people there in Hawaii. With the African American communities, all races and creeds he would like. First thing he would do when he'd go down to a, on recruiting, and I was on hundreds of recruiting visits with him. He would like, hit there and talk to the mother. It wouldn't even talk to the recruit. He'd sit there and talk to the mother. Then he talked to the father. He talked to the brother or sister because he felt as that was really important. That was the way to make sure that if you're going to go ahead and let me coach your son, I want you as a parent and the brother and sister to make sure you feel good about me as a coach, but not only as a coach, but as their mentor and leader. And that's what he did. He was very unique in that area and till the day he died, you know, she, she had that influence on people that sticks with you. He just, he's just part of you. It's hard to explain. I think it's interesting that you had a perspective that was probably different from anyone else. You had been a student athlete on a team that he coached and then you're with him at the beginning in Hawaii. And then you joined him again in Arizona. How did you see him and or his coaching approach change or grow? Or was he consistent that whole time? How did you see him change as a coach over the years? I think as a coach, I think he basically was the same guy that he was the day I met him at UCLA as when I was in quarterback. I mean, he, that just who he was. He didn't change. His philosophy was still the same to about people first. Like he like, I'm sure other people will say that he always had, you know, football is in complicated people are. And that's what he felt. So he wanted to make things make sure that the people felt good about themselves, that they were supported, that they received, as we're saying, Spanish. God, you know, which is support and love and affection that you need in order to be your best. And that's what he was about. And again, in spite and with all this, please know that Dick was the most intense person I've ever been around. His intensity was contagious. And that's what you saw on his great team and all his teams, but certainly in deserts, warm was Dick Tommy. That was his personality. That intensity that he brought on the defensive side, that's who he was. And now he's acting at scale of the same thing you saw with the DBs at UCLA when he's an assistant. So that those teams take on the personality of their leader. It back on. So I recognize that things weren't always, you know, undefeated seasons or or national championships. That really wasn't his legacy. It was connecting and it was his ability to walk a very fine line. Another, tell me, is I love the one you shared, but another one that that has stuck with me all these years as you're either coaching it or you're allowing it to happen. He was fiercely competitive, but he would also fiercely defend his players. And that's a tough line to walk because if you've got a player who is underperforming or not going to class or making poor decisions and you're fiercely defending of them, you can enable. At the same time, if you're a competitor, you can crush them. But I feel like he had an ability that I haven't seen in many leaders to expect the world of you, but love you hard enough and well enough that you recognize that this guy is not crushing me. I'm curious with with your work in executive coaching and with leaders. Put that in perspective for us. How does Dick tell me his approach and his ability to walk that fine line compared to what you've seen in Fortune 500 companies and ADs and high powered executives? I think there's a great correlation. I think as someone who coaches leaders, whether they're in athletics or in business, your first goal is to encourage them to be their best. In every facet of their life. And that's what Dick did. And that's what, you know, hopefully I try to do with the people that I work with. I want them to be their best. And so that also means pushing beyond their limits. And that's what Dick did to us as assistants. That's what he did to me as a player and that's what he did to his players that he coached. He pushed us to our limits. He believed in us, but he makes sure that we were doing the best we could. And going back to what you were saying earlier Toby in terms of the fact that he didn't go when national championships and all that stuff, but to putting into context. It was at two places, University of Hawaii where of course at UH you're not going to get a chance to win national champion. And then he was at Arizona and at Arizona, you may see UCLA, Danford at that time, Washington, all these schools that had Arizona State that all had better facilities at that time. That he was there and still do. Stronger football tradition. And so automatically you're like middle of the pack. And what Dick was able to do was he'd get the most either. The Teddy Bruce keys. Bruce key had one scholarship. I choose to assume he had two scholarships at University Pacific and University of Hawaii. He had two scholarships at University Pacific and University of Arizona. Those are the two scholarships he had. That that that that's a perfect example of the type of person. Molded and maximized in terms of their potential. Yeah, I've been consistently amazed at what he was able to do was lesser facilities and on paper what. And the recruiting rankings would say were lesser classes, you know, but, but they were, they were, they were quality people that would buy into the culture and he would turn that two or three star into a Teddy Bruce key or a Marcus Bell or any of a countless list of athletes who were just tremendous under his tutelage. And I think it's just a testament to the fact that he didn't give up on you. He invested and he was more interested in the student athlete that he sent away from campus than the one he got. As a freshman or as a transfer. Yeah, yeah. He's in a particular game or interaction maybe that stands out in your memory from your time coaching with coach. Show me on. There's a couple I would say his first victory was at university of Idaho. At University of Hawaii. And after when I was in Hawaii, I was very close to key in this then wife of Mary. And after the games, the three of us will go back to Dick's place and Kahala and just sit after sit outside and the little Lanai and and talk about the game and he after his first victory, he didn't like think this was the beginning of something great. This was something that he expected for many years. I think he dreamt about that moment for so long and he knew how he was going to put it out into his life. And then the other time is after he got done coaching again, I would go up and see a lot of his games San Jose State and and whenever I was with him pre game, even when he was at Arizona and I got out of coaching, I would speak with him before games. I would sit and he and I would be into hotel together pre game. Every time we were whether it was home or white and if I was there and I remember one time he was at San Jose and I had been dying to ask Dick this question because I at that time I had been out of coaching for like maybe 10 years. And I looked back on this God, what a pressure cooker coaching is, especially being a head coach. I mean, just like God, you have so much pressure on you. And so I asked Dick, it was it was I forget what game it was, but I was it was in the same thing. I said coach a thing. You ever get nervous before the game? Just think about do you ever get nervous and she this is a big game. He got coming up here. He's the knock. Never had that was a exact words. Jump thinking, you know, I and my I would be like it upset stomach. I'd be nauseous and all that. He would be sitting there, you know, having a piece of popcorn or whatever and be talking is not. I'm not nervous because he had so much faith in effect. He was doing the best he could and his prepare is going to be prepared as best he could. He was just going to just know that kids are going to play hard and whatever happened happened. And that was the most important thing to him. Yeah, the tougher gets harder they play right? Yeah. Well, sadly in 2019 we lost them after a brief bout with cancer. Gone too soon. If you had a chance to pull up a chair and have a conversation with Dick told me today, what would you say? And what would you want to ask him that maybe you never got the chance to ask? Well, let me just back track or say you can tell you all again as as I've been shared with you throughout this. How close I was to Dick. She was diagnosed in 2019 and 2018. We had a reunion UCLA that he came to. I picked him up at the airport. I took him to the hotel and Swiss him and he had had a cough at that time. And this was like in the middle of summer solace right before the seeding started. And I said, coach, I said, Dick, I said, you got a cough there. You get that shut down. He says, yeah. I'm in all my doctor says, you know, I got a little thump down. I don't know what it is. You know, I'm okay. And then come that next January, of course, we find out that it was on cancer and I went to go see him. He passed away in May. I saw him and February, I believe went to see him and he was about 75% in terms of his. No capacity. I think he was on a lot of medications, a lot of chemo is just kind of shut them, but it was great to see him and and then and then sadly, we lost him. And if I had a chance to visit with Dick today, I would just thank him so much for teaching him so much. What it is to be your best. How strong it is to love harder than you think possible. The people that you need to love. Do every person that you come in contact with, find a way to make them better after you leave them. And in that I'm still pissed off that he and I used to play one on one basketball at UCLA. I'm still pissed off that he's ahead 11 to seven. I'm still pissed off about that. I'm telling that because he'd love to compete. What a confidant. He loved to compete. But wow. I don't know if you all camped at Camp Cochise when you were at Arizona. But yeah. Okay. Famously, I was just a GA so I wasn't invited. But the basketball games in the in the college there in Douglas and then the swim Olympics. He was a competitor and then I've seen footage of him playing baseball. He wasn't going to play just to have fun. He was playing the wind. No, no. And and and later after he got done at the University of Arizona, he played on local baseball team. And I used to go see him play. Just a little to me. Supply. And I think he had more fun doing that than anything other than the fights. And he loved loved baseball. That was his first sport. That was his first love. Yeah. You know, for sure. Well, Mike, obviously your career has taken a different path. You kind of got out of the grind of college athletics and coaching and administration. And now you're a successful coach of executives. How do you think coach tell me his legacy continues to serve you today? I'm seeing here in my office, I counted five pitches of him. That tells you a lot. I have five pictures of get right now. You know, in terms of his he has a staff. He and I at Hawaii and you say, lay together. He and I are zone. It's bulk. It's this is I'm surrounded by Dick Tommy and and I appreciate that. And I love the fact that I am. And I know you're going to speak to some people that feel the same way I do about Dick. I know he talked to Brent, we can talk to coach and meal. You can have toxic, you know, rich, his son. Cool. I'm very, very close to you and and some other people that I'm sure they're all feeling the same way. They just did. They did. They we all walk with Dick is part of us every day. Yeah. And I can't imagine a better legacy than that. Sure. Mike, thank you so much for your time. It's really been insightful. I sincerely appreciate it. Thank you for reaching out and for volunteering to do this. It's been insightful, shine a bright light on on a season of his life. Let's face it, like the Internet doesn't reach real deep into the nether regions of 60s and 70s college football, not at this level. So I thank you so much for your insights. This is my pleasure and and I look forward to hearing the rest of your podcast and I'll see you in the next one. Please stay in touch. My name is Mike Flores and executive leadership coach in a visiting football coach for Dick Tommy and Dick for meal. And you say like University of Hawaii and University of Arizona. And this has been undone. Awesome. Thank you so much. And that is a wrap on today's conversation with Mike Flores. If there's one thing that stands out, it's that leadership real leadership is about more than X's and O's. It's about people about investing in them, pushing them, believing in them. And as coach told me showed us time and time again, loving them hard enough to demand their best. Mike's journey from being coached by Tommy at UCLA to standing alongside him as a trusted assistant in Hawaii and Arizona. Gives us a rare firsthand look at what made coach Tommy's impact so powerful. And what's clear is that his legacy isn't just in the wins or the championships. It's in the people he shaped and lessons he passed down. I'm thankful to Mike for dropping in and I hope you enjoyed our conversation. For more info on today's episode, be sure to check it out on the web. Simply go to undonepodcast.com backslash EP 113 to see the notes, links and images related to today's guest, Mike Flores. Coming up, you will not want to miss what's ahead for the show. I've already got a fantastic interview in the bag with four-time Super Bowl champion Jesse Sapolu talking about all those years in Hawaii. But before I get too far down that path, I've also managed to connect with Hall of Fame and Super Bowl champion coach Dick Vermeel, whom I'm working hard to sit down with and talk about coach Tommy's years as a bright young assistant at UCLA. And as much fun as all this pre-Arizona stuff has been, I gotta be honest, I can't wait to get to the Wildcat years, including the Desert Swarm Era and that 1998 Holiday Bowl champion squad. I've already got interviews with Walk-On, turned team heartbeat and eventually GA coach Dave Phipp, who's now a special teams coach with the Detroit Lions, as well as the Wildcat's current head coach Brent Brennan, who served as a GA, an assistant, eventually head coach at San Jose State, and now is the head coach at U of A. This and more coming up on the life, lessons and legacy of Dick Tomey, a Toby Brooks passion project. Becoming Undone is a Nitrohub creative production written and produced by me, Toby Brooks. Do me a favor, tell a friend about the show, follow along on Facebook, Instagram and LinkedIn. I'll be coming Undone pod and follow me at TobyJ Brooks on Facebook, Instagram and LinkedIn. Check out my link tree at linkedtr.ee backslash TobyJ Brooks. Listen, subscribe and leave a glowing 5-star review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, iHeartRadio or wherever you get your podcasts. Till next time, keep getting better. Hey!
