Undertaker

Hello, it's the American Nightmare, Cody Rhodes. Welcome to What Do You Want to Talk About? A Fanatics and WWE original production. Today, my guest is a Hall of Famer. It's the phenom. It's the dead man. It's the judge. It's one of wrestling's Mount Rushmore. He also has a podcast on this wonderful Fanatics channel. Ladies and gentlemen, please welcome Everything Champion, multi-time Everything Champion, The Undertaker. I appreciate the introduction. I don't know if I'm going to live up to all that. Well, we should tell them, too, this is technically, unless we just have nothing. Right. This is technically supposed to be part one. Yeah, right. We're going to do a home and home. Yeah. Offsite home and home, but yeah. And then I'll be coming to your pod. How are you enjoying hosting a podcast? Oh, it sucks. Could you try again? He said. Oh, my gosh. Is that you? He said. He said, how do you like doing a podcast? That's off. I don't know why that. Oh, big pop for I didn't get that. Who's Alexa is rocking? Yeah. Just throw it in a chair. I will say it almost feels mystical in a sense that I ask you a question and then a voice just. Just started randomly speaking from my pocket. Part of the lore and the mythos. As I was asking, do you enjoy doing the podcast? It has its moments. Yeah. Yeah, it really does. You know, when you enter a discussion or you're in a conversation and you're hitting it off and, you know, that's always fun. Yeah. But, man, sometimes when you get that guest that doesn't want to talk or is not a storyteller, right? You want to name names? I don't want to name names, but it can be like pulling a tooth. When this was brought to me, you can do home and home, I was like, yeah, because you're a great storyteller. Thank you. Yeah, no, really. Thank you. I enjoy, I don't follow much other podcasts or listening, but I always kind of catch you because you're very detail-oriented. in your stories. And that's such a key part of bringing somebody in to what you do. And you've mastered that. You got to take them on the ride. You got to take them on the ride. You got to put them in the scenario. I'm sure you saw it. And if I asked anyone else who is coming on this podcast, I actually am doubtful. You've seen the man who shot Liberty Valance, right? Is it the Jimmy Stewart quote, when the fact becomes legend, print the legend. Exactly. So my whole thought, I've been labeled by some of my peers as what comes up as a Cody lie, an exaggeration, a bit of a hyperbole. To me, it's just a legend. Right. I don't need, you know, like, let's give them the sexiest version of the story. Exactly. Which is fun. You mentioned hitting it off with people. We tend to have something that helps in a sense. This podcast is Wheatley American Vodka. I have the Wheatley American Mule. I know you have something special. What do you have? This is the Dead Man's Draft. Wow. Yeah. All right. Well, cheers for that. Yeah, absolutely. Thank you so much. Part one. In the spirit of that toast, I have a question that I don't think you would think that I would ask you, But I have to know because I've gotten an answer from Sina and I've talked to others about it. But why on earth? Why on earth the tradition of gargling whiskey? And where did this come from? And to set this up, to set this up, if you got called to the bar, this is when I first came on board, 2008, 2009, 10, whatever it may be. And you got the call, hey, Taker would like to see you. You got up and you went to the bar and there would be a thing of whiskey and just a shot glass. And you would be, you know, hey, this is part of your kind of indoctrination into the crew and into the team. But you would have to gargle it, which, again, I do it. And it's now I am expecting it of others. But what are the origins of gargling whiskey? So you may be a little disappointed in all this. Okay. And I'm not one to make someone gargle. That's my deal. I take the shot. I drink the shot. In fairness, you didn't make anything happen. Right. No, you're invited over. It is a welcome, but that's a big misnomer. Like, oh, man, Taker told me to come over and drink. I had to drink. No, it's not that. I don't ever make anybody do anything they didn't want to do. But it was kind of a, hey, kid, come on in here. You're proving yourself. And if you want to drink with us, that's fine. If you don't, you don't have to. The gargling happened. So we go back to when business wasn't quite so good. Okay. All right. And I've been on both ends of the spectrum. and um so for me gargling happened because the guys on top when you go to the bar those guys were making a little bit more money than everybody else was right and there was a struggle so uh a lot of times like they you want to be part of it but you don't want to you don't want to drink all that whiskey because whiskey you know is tough right so what would end up happening is a lot of People would, they would quick shot her. They'd throw it, pour it on the floor and then act like they're drinking, right? And, you know, that's money, right? Yes. That's people's money. You had to choose whether or not, like, all right, I'm going to go to the bar and have drinks tonight. Yeah. Knowing that it's going to affect your everyday life, really. Yeah. Right? So there was a lot of people that were, like, tossing shots. And they got busted for it. So then it kind of became a deal where, all right, you got to gargle so that you know that you've had this shot. Yeah. That was the original origins of it. Sure. And then I think it just carried on through the years. Sure. So then it kind of became a machismo thing, too, where, you know. So I never gargled and I never made anybody gargle. No. It's like, here, if you want this shot, have the shot. But when I went down, because you brought up that you never made anyone drink or anything like that, and I can double down on the fact that it was actually you didn't do anything. You were there sitting next to it. It was everyone else who was, all right, this is how you do it. You go up there. You're going to take the shot, and then maybe have a conversation. It was almost like you're meeting a foreign dignitary. You're going to go up there. But then also, it was like once you did it, you go float around. You hang out. Yeah. See what's going on. It was always much more fun not to bury this person, but it was always much more fun when you got the call from you or you got to have that moment with you, especially during that time in my career versus when it was over. Because when it was over, God bless it, you'd be over with Kyoto and Kyoto, the same level of energy, like, oh, let's get more to drink. But also it starts to get a little dangerous. You're not necessarily learning about wrestling anymore. It's more you're just figuring out how to get out of this. Yeah. And I thought, because I went to South Africa, the first tour I did with the company, and I didn't do anything right. I didn't sleep on the plane. I didn't know what to do on the way over. We did the show. And I went down to the bar because I just thought that was, okay, everybody will be down there. Right. So I'll go to the bar. Went down to the bar, and it was actually just like this, but it was Sandman. And I always had a good relationship with Sandman. He was a very nice man to me. But I asked him, I go, oh, well, I should ask him what he wants, right? I should get him a drink. That's the exchange here. I asked him what he wants and I'll never free. He just, Oh, I'll get four vodkas. Cool. All right. Cause four. Yeah. So that's, I'm going to get you the four, but I'm obviously not going to get four for myself. Like, so, and I got four vodkas and I'm already thinking like, well, I'm not getting myself one. Cause this is a ridiculous request. He slammed one and where the WWE title is positioned was a big hearth. And he threw it at about 90 miles per hour. Like Randy Johnson level fastball and the fire and everything, like a little extra spark, and I just walked away. Yes. I thought that wasn't the right because, oh, man, I feel like you've experienced this so much. There's like legends, dignitaries, luminaries, and then sometimes there's just kind of like old timers. And, you know, I try to offer everyone the same level of grace, but it was a different type of education. Yeah. Yeah. You did the right thing. Okay. Yeah. Moving away from that, especially what, this is what, 2008? 2008, I think. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Things were way, way different too there. Yeah. So, yeah, that was the best decision you could have made. It was definitely like walking away. I have, like, I love to have a good time. I mean, through my years, I had my good times. But I didn't ever. I just, when people start getting belligerent. Yeah. And especially if they're in the group that I'm around, man, it really didn't bode well for them. You have to be able to handle your liquor and conduct yourself in a manner, right? Because one person screws up, you've all screwed up now, right? Yeah. So, yeah, I liked having a good time, but, man, you had to be able to keep it together. Yeah, you keep your circle together. You know, some people, some of my favorites, they never left catering. It was always just, we're going to sit right here. We're going to have our moment. It's going to be a private thing. We're just right here. And I always looked at it, because I do know there's this weird discussion about people being made to drink and things of that nature. I always looked at it as just an opportunity. You don't spend as much time with these people, particularly you're in the locker rooms with them, or in my case, coming up where you're nervous and you're thinking about what you're going to be doing. You're calling a match and you're not sure, am I supposed to be calling to the sim? Are we going over spots? Are we doing one of those where we don't? all these things. And I liked it as a moment where you actually got to know each other, especially when you were locked up with each other for, you were on far longer tours than I was. But when I first came here, we still did the 17 day door to door. That's your family for a little period of time. Yeah. So during the gist of my run, like I was on the road with those guys more than I was home. And so one, you have to have a set of guys that one you can hang with, one that don't get on your nerves. Because a 17-day loop in Europe and you're in a different city, most times different countries every day, it doesn't take much. It doesn't take much to put you on edge. So you needed to have that camaraderie. But man, we had a few in the group that would get a little loose sometimes. and we'd have to have a little bit of come to Jesus like, hey, we're going to have a good time, but we've got to cut the bullshit out. You can't come anymore. Yeah, yeah. There's been more than one guy that's got grounded, right? It's like, hey, no, no, no, you can't do that. Talking about the tours, I wanted to ask you because there's a specific question about a tour I was going to bring up, but in general for you, throughout all the times you've been overseas, did you have a favorite place overseas to wrestle? Um, I loved, I loved Australia. Um, I just, I love going over there. I love the people over there. Um, and, and again, I remember, I think this was the last time that I was, that I was champion and I was doing both shows. And, um, so we had done, I think we did San Diego Monday. Then we did Tuesday. We did SmackDown on Tuesdays then LA. so LA was Monday Tuesday was San Diego then we had to drive back after the show back to LA to catch a flight to fly to Australia to do three, four live events and then make it back to California to do Monday Night Raw again it was brutal sounds it and so we do that we fly, we fly all night we get to Australia now this is what two mid 2000 maybe around 2008, 2009 somewhere in there somebody I'm sure will fact check that and let me know your dates. Your dates are off, but the actual tour did happen. And we get to Australia. I think it was Sydney. And it is like, it is packed. Yeah. It's a million-dollar house then, which is, I mean, I know you guys are like, yeah, y'all fall asleep on a million-dollar house now. But back then, back then it was big. No, of course. Yeah, this is a live event. Yeah, this is a non-televised live event, and there's over a million-dollar house in there. And I'm sitting there watching the matches, man, and it's like match after match. Everybody's tired. You know what that is. I mean, I'm jet-lagged. I'm tired. I've worked two days, and I got on a plane, and I would say 80% of the matches were just dog shit. Sure. and I'm just sitting there and match after match I watch, I'm getting madder and I'm getting madder and I'm getting madder because everybody's kind of feeling sorry for themselves and not taking in the account the appreciation to have that house. And so I get back, I was on last and Fit Finley, he was the producer, the agent. I said, Fit, you mind if I speak? You know, God wants to overstep his role or anything. He goes, no, no. Go ahead, Mark. He knew exactly what I was going to say, man. And I ended up cutting a promo on our crew. Like, most of them had never experienced the arena so empty that you could take a handful of rocks. Sure. And not hit anybody, right? I mean, which is, you know, we had battled our way through all that. And now you have this kind of house for a non-televised thing, and you're just going to dog it and call it in? Now, the atmosphere, the tempo, the energy was much better the next night in New Zealand. Sure, yeah. But, yeah, I know we were talking about where I like to work. But, yeah, Australia always seems like they've just kind of been just an incredible energetic crowd. And then, you know, the U.K. and Germany, I mean, all those towns, because they only got us once or twice a year. They always seem, you know, those towns were just, they had so much energy, so much fun. Yeah. You mentioned the Million Dollar House, the fact that people weren't appreciating it. Here's some really inside baseball. Keep this in, please. But it's quite funny. Now, lately, they've been putting largest gate in history. and it's on the sheet that I have access to. If they don't write that, though, no matter if it was an amazing house, no matter if the number's amazing, John Davis is kind of like, eh, what happened? Bro, what do you mean? It's still a great, like, what are we talking about? You know? But that was that little line, just largest in company history is a thing. It's very exciting when you get to see that. This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp. The new year is an opportunity, but you don't need to be a new person. We all have things that weigh us down. Signing up for therapy with BetterHelp can shine a light on what's been heavy and illuminate all the possibilities for the year ahead. Therapy is a great way to gain an unbiased perspective on your life and can play a key role in leaving behind what's been heavy, so you can focus on the future. BetterHelp does the initial matching work for you, so you can focus on your therapy goals. If you aren't happy with your match, Switch to a different therapist at any time from our tailored recs. With over 30,000 therapists, BetterHelp is one of the world's largest online therapy platforms, having served over 5 million people globally, and it works, with an average rating of 4.9 out of 5 for a live session based on over 1.7 million client reviews. You can't step into a lighter version of yourself without leaving behind what's been weighing you down. Therapy can help you clear space. Sign up and get 10% off at BetterHelp.com slash Cody. That's BetterHelp, H-E-L-P.com slash Cody. I wanted to ask you about your favorite place because we wrestled on, I don't know if you remember because you've been over and done this so many times. Do you remember the Honey Monster Tour? The Honey Monster Tour? Yeah. Help me. That may not be the best way to describe. It was an overseas tour in the UK where you and Triple H wrestled against me, Randy, and Teddy Biosti each night. There was a serial sponsor called The Honey Monster. And it was just like a wampa looking, kind of like a mascot. He got all kinds of heat with the boys because he was on the massage table. That's right. No, no, no. The Honey Monster. You had to hit me where I lived there. We're starting to register with everybody. You would think you wouldn't see him that often, but we were seeing him everywhere. He's sitting at the monitor. First line of catering. Yeah, he's eating. The honey monster became part of this tour. But this is a famous, and it's gone, as the kids say, it's a viral clip. You probably know where I'm going. Yeah, yeah. But there's this clip of what you did every night, but that's the one time somebody captured it when it was time for the hot tag. And this was a huge lesson in cutting the ring in half. and just working an entire match based on working towards that tag, working towards that tag right before it was time. Whenever we, or in your case, Triple H, and you deemed it was right, when the crowd was ready, you would start moving up and down the ringside area at an unbelievable speed. Just a crazy, just going. And your hair at that point had dried out a little bit because you had just been hanging on the apron and working the apron. But you had been there and you would call for a water bottle and you'd catch it. And I don't think you ever missed in the 11 days I saw it. And you'd pour it all over your head and the place would lose their mind. They were part of it with you. And then you'd come in there and you'd beat us all half to death. But where is the origin of this amazing moment? Like where did you figure out doing this? Because it was one of my favorite things each night. And also we didn't always go at the same time. Right. It was really off based off what UNH thought. All right, it's time. And when I saw that, it was, we were chomping at the bit to be the ones to come in and feed. But yeah, I was curious where it came from. Totally. All it was was a total teachable moment. Okay. That was all it was for me. Yeah. I never worked that way anywhere else. Like it didn't work for my character to work like that. Yeah. So, and back then you don't, you're not thinking that someone is in my head. I'm not thinking, okay, we're, we're in Austria or wherever that was at. I'm not thinking of someone recording it. So I'm thinking that I'm getting away with being able to teach this, this moment. And what I'm teaching, you know, I can sit here and talk with someone and I can, I can talk psychology and why I do this and why I do that. and as I talk to you about it, you're listening and you're visualizing in your head what I'm talking about, right? And then you get out in a match and you do absolutely nothing the way that I was describing it to me, you know, for my vision. Your vision was something completely different. Sure. So I've got two guys. I've got Randy, he's an established guy, but then you and Ted are young guys coming up. So that's the best way for me to teach is to let you experience what that hot tag should be like. Oh man. Yeah. That's all that, that's all that was, was just a teaching moment because I didn't get those very often. Yeah. Right. We got to do some creative things in the live events over there with tags and, and, you know, six, three on twos and all that. those are those are all teachable moments i mean i don't know if you remember the hyena effect i don't know if we we talked about that is is is throwing somebody out so and throwing somebody out of the ring and then the other guy taking the the referee and then the other guy jumping on them and then you know as as the as the the baby face on the heel on the you know on the apron comes down to make the save, then you throw that guy back in. So now you're just, you know, those were all things that I was trying to get to, you know, to lay on you and lay on even Randy. But that was all it was, was just me trying to teach. That makes the moment so much different for me, thinking about it that way. Because I had thought, I knew you didn't do that on TV. It was not The Undertaker we'd see on TV. But I also thought it's kind of his way of having an intimate moment with this crowd, which it was. But also, I'm sure you've been around so many people who talk psychology. And it sounds great. And it's, oh, yeah, he's got it. They talk about the structure of an angle. They talk about building a match. But then in the ring, it's not there at all. I honored that that got to be the thing we did Did I ever tell you what happened when I tried Because there was another spot you did that I always thought this was so clever And again, for being so big and you being able to do it, but you'd pop a chair up to make the noise so that everyone knew, hey, weapon. And then you'd come after the bad guys if we were doing hyena stuff on the floor, actually. So I was in Denver, and it was a great house in Denver. And this is right before WrestleMania 39. I forget. It was a six-man. It was kind of a motley crew just put all together. I think we were actually the week before Mania. So it was a safe thing, I suppose. I don't know. But they were doing it. And I go, hey, I'm going to do it because me and the Usos refer to that as the taker spot. Right. And it's just a thing. We're going to do the taker spot, which could mean three things. But that one, they knew what it was. But I remember we weren't – not everyone was hip to it. Not everyone had run that play before. Right. So they're getting all this excess heat on the outside and they're – whatever. Now is the time. It's right. I'd hop down. I'd pop that thing up. I got it. Makes the noise. The crowd reacts. I slide around, but I kind of only half committed. I didn't really know because they weren't running the full way like we used to run. Right. So I'm thinking the only person I can put this heat on is either me putting the chair down, which I don't want, or the ref has to stop me. Right. So the way they went around, I slid in the ring. And when I slid in the ring, this ref, and God bless this great ref, but again, wasn't hit to this spot, stopped me with such a force that the chair hit me right in the face. So now it's the week before WrestleMania 39. I've never even been near the main event of a WrestleMania. And this is going to be the first WrestleMania main event. And it's for the title. And I am thinking the whole rest of that match. I'm not even mad. I'm thinking the whole rest, if I have to get stitches, I can't. And it wasn't that bad. But I thought, oh, what a cautionary tale. We were trying to do it. I get away with it now. I think I did it in Mexico because you were at the monitor watching. Yes. I was like, I don't know how entertained he is, but we've got to do something. No, no, no. I recognized it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, yeah. That's your play. You know what? You guys now are so athletic and you guys can do so many things. there's just certain things that are so basic like that that resonate because I don't think our audience sees it anymore. And it makes such sense, right? You're trying to create advantages in the match, right, where your heels have got an advantage on your baby faces. So, you know, the way a spot's supposed to run is they're double teaming your guy on the outside. You chase them off. You throw the other guy. You know, it's always the hyena. Like the lion will come in and chase these two hyenas off. The other two hyenas come back in and try to steal the prey. So, yeah, it's simple. Yeah. But it just like, oh, people, you know, it resonates with me. Like, oh, man. Sure. He hits them with that chair. And then they get so excited because now you're out there chasing this guy with the chair while the other guy's beating the crap out of the guy. You just went and – it's just fun. And, yeah. It's the difference between the psychology, the application. I remember I used to hear that a lot in my first run with W2B is, it's great that someone's telling me this. You have to apply it. None of this works unless you're applying it. That's where I really appreciated just the general. You mentioned fit. Fit's somebody that nobody wants to come back and get the, you know, tell me something. Unless it's, you know, to the Shawn Michaels moment of, no, it was that good. You already know that. And that's so rare anyways. But the fact that we had, I saw you and Bailey talking about just the general being at the live events. And I've said it on this podcast, and I know it gets me in trouble with my peers, and I don't care. I miss them so much. I miss the live events for the rhythm of wrestling. I feel like it helped actually prevent injuries. I feel like it helped a general just not just a camaraderie, but the other thing is being part of the team. If you're only here like once or twice a week, it doesn't feel like you're what team are you on versus now. This is our crew. We run. We run Saturday. We run Sunday. And I know it's a different time and the way the company works. It has its own difficulties and challenges today that are different. But I miss it. And I miss it. It was those things. Just try this. Hey, did you hear that? Literally things that you could not put in a lab and replicate. Just a general excited fan. Just, I miss it. But maybe it was a moment in time. You know, I don't know. Well, but the live events, too, were like, where do you, you know, you're sitting at home on your couch and you're watching TV and you think it's like, oh, man. A spot comes in your head, right? Well, it's pretty delicate, are they? It's pretty intricate. Yeah. Like, do I want to try that on Monday Night Raw with the whole world watching? Or do I want to try it in Poughkeepsie, you know, at a small – that's one of the things, too, about the live events. Yeah. One, I think there is – like, we grinded. Maybe we grinded too hard. Right. Right? But there is a line there. That's a balance to it. There is a balance that you need. You need the reps to stay sharp. and then you also need a place to try new stuff because there's nothing, you're going to get instant feedback. In a lot of it, you're going to get instantly, okay, that either worked or maybe I need to do this to make it even better, but it's not something like, eh, I'm going to pull this out on Monday Night Raw or I'm going to try this at the paper. You need some place to try these ideas. And I get trying to protect your talent, but I also agree with you that, you know not working does maybe lead to you know because you know iron sharpens iron sometimes and um again i don't think we need to grind like we did but i don't think you need not to do live events when i left wb i had made a list of all these different independent wrestlers and wrestlers in japan all these different people i wanted to wrestle who i had heard were the bee's knees just the most talented, amazing, and often very talented, very artistic, great people. But one of the things I discovered just on mom and pop indies that I was doing is the no rhythm between each other made it so that you were firing the livest of rounds. And I remember I'd be working with people that had been revered as, you know, you hear like, oh, five stars and all, and they were really athletic and they were really great, but we'd never touched before. so we all of the thought that well we don't want it to miss either but oh my gosh i had never yeah i had never walked away with so many shows you know boxer cut here something above the eye i'm just thinking what's the issue and i felt like that's something when it comes to raw or smackdown again not to belabor my point about the live events here but that's a thing as far as just getting a little chemistry with somebody because how often do you have that amazing lightning in of bottle chemistry. It's not. Right. It's rare. Yeah. So to get a good flow with people is important. I certainly miss them. I want to go kind of rewind a hair because something that's always intrigued me, particularly watching, I'd say this 90 to 95 and even into the attitude era, this run that you had, who with you growing up and watching and being a fan of the business, Who are you most a fan of? Who was your guy when you were watching wrestling? You wouldn't believe it. From where I ended up as a fan. So I grew up in Houston. So we had Paul Bosch's Houston Wrestling, right? NWA Houston Wrestling. So I loved Mil Mascaras. Oh, wow. Yeah. Flying headbutt. Right? Yeah, yeah. And I say that and people look at me like that would not have been who I thought. I'm a first choice for you. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't know. I mean, I don't know if it was the mask and how fluid and how cool he was. I actually ended up getting to work, not against him, but on the same card as him when I was with WCW. Crazy story. Sure. I come back. Talking about living the gimmick. Like, people always, like, man, he lived the gimmick. And I remember coming back from my match. Mill had already worked. I go in to get in the shower, and there he is showering with his mask on. Oh, I love it. Yeah. I love it. He had his mask on. Yeah. It's one of those things. You walk in, and I just stopped. Like, should I be here right now? Right. And I was like, oh, man, okay. He protects it back here, too. Not that I was watching him in the shower, but it's— At this point, it's okay that you were wearing a mask. He's in one, he's, he's over there and I'm in this corner. And I just, every once in a while, I would just like look back to see if he still had his mask on. Yeah. And I looked back one time and he pulled it off. He pulled it off and hooked it onto the, the, the spigot there or the nozzle and washed his face and his hair real quick, rinsed off and it put the hood right. I mean, it probably wasn't 20 seconds. Yeah. And then I don't know, maybe that affected me later on. When I started really having a gimmick, I always thought back to Mill, like, dude, this guy's even got the hood on in the shower. Well, I feel like there's a ton of synergy now that you bring that up. In a sense, it's completely different styles. Lucha Libre and what you were doing. But what you said, that's the efforts he was willing to go. and to an outsider, as Arne Anderson would say, to a civilian, maybe to a civilian, as Double A would say, maybe that seems so odd. But to you, it's not odd at all. It's what we do. It is what, yeah. If you care and this means something to you, you go to those lengths. It's a lesson learned. I'm curious about Houston because I grew up in, And I would watch what was contemporary to me, WCW, in the early 90s. Right. Crockett is when I first started getting into some tapes. And so Mid-Atlantic, I didn't know anything about Mid-South yet, a little Florida here and there. But Houston and Paul, who my mother, of all people, will always go on record that Paul was one of the greater payoff men. OK? And then the custom jewelry that Paul was. I.W. Marks. Right, yes. I have a belt buckle, the cauliflower ear in the corner, the television in the other. It's one of Paul's. You have one of those? Yeah, I have one of his belt buckles. Yeah. But I'm so curious, what made Houston wrestling, because Texas is such a wild territorial situation, being such a big, big state. What made Paul and Houston's wrestling so special? Because Bruce, who's been on this podcast, who, when he came on the podcast, I wanted to run through a brick wall. I never felt more motivated just listening to a man talk about wrestling and what it takes and who's – if you're going to be on top and all this stuff, I just – oh. It's amazing listening to Bruce. And once you can decipher what's real, what's true. Sure. You know. Yeah. But, yeah, it's amazing. No, Houston just had that – so back then you got the guys that are traveling, right? You got Andre that traveled. That's the first time, obviously, I'd ever seen Andre. Yeah. I think I was 12, maybe 13 when I met, or not met, but like got to shake Andre's hand. You know, you get to see the Sheik and Abdullah, Big Joe LaDuke. Wow. Okay. Jose Lothario. Yeah. The Black Jacks. I mean, all those guys come through there. Yeah. Red Bastine. Yeah. I don't remember if that name means anything to you. Of course. Yeah. Yeah, it's just, there was just such a ruggedness to it. Like, just, like, these dudes were, you know, even as a kid, you were like, oh. I remember me and my friend from across the street. Again, 11, 12 in that area. Oh, man. And the Sheik, the original Sheik, is coming into town, right? And we're building ourselves up. My mom had got tickets for us. Sam Houston Coliseum. Yep. And that was like a super huge treat because we were both such big wrestling fans. So the Sheik's going to be on the card, right? And the tickets my mom get are right on the aisle. I love it. Right? So we're going to be able to, I mean, we're going to be right there, right on the aisle by them. So we're building ourselves up the whole week, right? You know, wrestling, it was Friday night. So we find out maybe Monday or Tuesday we're going to go. We're talking all week long. Yeah, man, when the sheet comes down, man, we're going to say this to him, and we're going to do this, and I might throw something at him. So we got ourselves hyped up all week long, man, what we're going to do to the sheet. Yeah. And you have to understand, like you have to go back and realize how scary the sheet and Abdullah were, you know, in this time period. Like you believed everything that they did was legit. And we were right there, right? So we'd build ourselves up, man. So here we are, here comes the sheik, you know, and he's doing his stuff and he's got his walk. And my buddy was in front of me and I was like, I'm going for it, right? So I move him out of the way and I start to lean over this barricade and I'm like, and he darts at me. Oh, gosh. I damn near took the whole row out running from him. He scared the living crap out of me. And in turn, like I was Hank Snow, man. I was getting out of there because I knew he was coming. He convinced me that he was going to come over that barricade and get me, man. Yeah, I wiped out. I've been, I've liked out three or four people just trying to get out of his way. And, uh, I love the buildup over the course of the week for the show in terms of you thinking, oh, I'm going to, we're going to say this to him. We're going to do whatever. Cause I didn't realize until later in my dad's life, his dad, the plumber Virgil, that's what he liked to do Friday night in Texas, in Austin, they would go to wrestling and what he wanted, it was a release for him. He'd try to fight every wrestler. That's what he'd not really try to fight, but he'd sit there and yell and scream, and that was his whole thing. And I had always thought they just went as fans. You don't hear that as much anymore these days. Modern fans are coming maybe for different reasons. But I love the idea of I'm going to let them know. I'm going to let that bad guy, I'm going to let that heel know how I feel. Oh, that's, oh, man. And of course, Sean told me something one time. And I never forgot it. He was saying, being a bit of a lighter heavyweight, that people would say stuff to him. He'd scream stuff in the ring, whatever. He probably heard all. But he'd always just kind of lean back. And whatever was in that eye, he'd want them to know, hey, I'm a psychopath. It's something like, oh, I could take it. No, maybe I can't take it. Yeah. Maybe not. And I thought, that's such a cool way to look at it. Because it's not so much the size as much as the intent and as much as the belief and commitment to being in there. Oh, man. Yeah. Sean was amazing on so many levels. I think he was before his time and what he could do athletically. But that was only a small part of what Sean did, what he did. What I always loved about Sean is, again, he could bump and sell and do all this pretty shit. But at one moment, at the right time in a match, when it comes to Dukes, right? It should always, to me, it boils down. You can do all the flying head scissors and all these other things. But when it gets down, it gets to a point in the match where it comes down to Dukes and fighting, right? And regardless of how outsized he was or who he was in the ring with, when it came down, you believed him. Yeah. Right? And that's a gift to have. Because a lot of people, you don't, it's like, eh, eh. Yeah, stick to the high-flying stuff. Sure. But Sean had that thing in him, that dog, I guess, is what you. The dog. He had that dog in him. That look in his eye that you're talking about was like, hey, we got to go to Duke's? Yeah. We're going to go to Duke's. And, I mean, I'd say there's probably no one that I had rather work with than him. Talking about chemistry and all that, man. I could have a match with him. Well, not now. But when we were going, I could have a match with him and just like. It's a night off. Yeah, it's so easy. I always say it's like a night off, but it's a night on. You're discovering all new stuff and everything's hitting as well. You mentioned that dog in them. I think the first guy, as I started looking at the wrestling industry from the, okay, how do we do this? How, what was the makeup of this person? But someone else who had that dog in them, I didn't realize this was Tully Blanchard. And I watched a lot of, I've watched all these random tag team hot tags this week where Tully met the guy on the ropes and had to fight his way out. And it was just a completely different sense of it. I don't know if I've ever told you this story, but one time Hunter told me, he's like, you've got the same exact thing. He's like, you've got to be able to go for it. You've got to be able to hang in there. It doesn't mean you're not going to take your licks, but you're getting back up. You're coming again. So he told me, he said, at this point in your career, I was a bad guy. I was doing Dash and Cody Rhodes. He said, don't be afraid to run back in there. Let that baby face know and take one more. One time I ever tried it, one time, was Booker. and uh and booker's in there just doing booker you know what i'm saying and i let him know i'm yelling screaming so because i had last thing i want to do i'm not trying to break the flow of this up you got to hit me and i slid in there and i as it's like it was magic he turned around and that giant booker hand just right here and just eardrum gone right away and i just he hit you with his working punch i mean yeah i went down and uh i went to the back and i remember i just looked at hunter he had he don't even remember him telling me that story and i just went well didn't really work you know um you mentioned his uh working punch one of my favorite things with t book ever was i wrestled him when he had come off commentary so there was a little rust for sure but i ain't pointing that out this is the i'm always gonna try the the veteran is going to lead that this is anything that goes wrong it's going to be my fault right even if you know i don't think that was but it is my fault right but he was in the corner lighting me up with chops but his head was moving so he wasn't looking at me so he's chop here and then looking back and i i come back full handprint on my face just all scratch on my neck and he was right in front of me and i'll just never forget he's screaming follow that shakespeare he's going on his whole bit and i just everyone i was looking at everyone like yeah yeah guys it got considered considerably better but i'll never forget because now guys get in the corner they go to chop you it's so deliberate and so but man he was literally just flying all over man he was feeling it right he was he was feeling it and it was worth it that he was feeling you know it was worth it that's funny i i back in the day uh i'd be in the ring with rock and uh i don't i don't don't know if you ever noticed, but Rock would love to have you, your back to the Tron. Yeah. And we were working one night and he is just wearing me out, right? He's got me up against the ropes and he is just pounding me, right? Ain't looking, he's not looking anywhere close. He's just watching himself whip my ass on the Tron. It's like this. And I'm like, if I was like, hey dude, if I will sell for you, can you at least look me in the eyes while you're beating my ass? And then he popped. He laughed about it. It was just like, come on, man. Oh, he was all into it. Boom, boom, boom. Just kidding. You guys have a giant Tron, too. Huge. Just the Tron itself. Oh, my gosh. You pick up everything. It was just, come on, man. Big news. WWE and sports fans, the world's number one sports fan festival, Fanatics Fest, is making its return to New York City. Fanatics is bringing you closer to the leagues, teams, superstars, and athletes you love across four action-packed days in July. 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Head to FanaticsFest.com to get your tickets today. you uh you mentioned you mentioned the rock you mentioned the final boss which is i i i struggle to know how i would ask you this because i i i don't really talk about it that often because i don't want to ruin what it was and i i don't know if we could ruin what it was but just it was such a special thing to me but obviously we have to talk about wrestlemania 40 and from my perspective i'm very curious as far as your perspective on it but people will look at that and it's i see all the time the greatest five minutes in wrestling history which is hilarious because within the five minutes uh section they cut out it's just me laying there selling so i'm there you know but uh hey sometimes you gotta set the table you gotta set the table i'm in there then just sit back and look at your handiwork i am in the corner but this moment I can tell you that Hunter talked to me a lot about what I was looking at as far as what do you want that to be What is it And the rivalry with Roman and I is rather real So it's one of those things you don't talk a lot about. And I kept telling him, I'm too close to this all. Whatever play you call, we're going to run it. But I describe it as actual magic is basically what happened in front of me. And again, John Cena comes down first to neutralize Solo Sokoa. John rolls to the backside, but I can see him. He's on the backside. He's up against the wall after Rocket came out to neutralize John Cena. And then, of course, the bells hit. And the part to me that was so wild, because you know how a blackout looks in the arena. It's not always a blackout in the arena like it is on TV. But you kind of pulled a little bit of a Yoda move where you're walking around backstage real slow and just kind of conserving your energy. And then the speed to which you roll in the ring, you can hear it. You can hear it. It's like listening to a guy at a wrestling school do a roll for the first time and do it right. You sped in there and stood right up, and then when the reveal comes up, there you are. This moment happens. Grab him. Give him a big choke slam. He goes up for it. Boom, big moment. And then you did the coolest thing is you look back knowing what was happening in the entire match. You look back at me, and of course, I was in a cell, so the moment wasn't what maybe you had envisioned. but you look back at me just to give me a little, like I got him. It's yours now. I got him. But then you winked. And I tell people this all the time. I went like this. And when you winked, the lights went out. And I remember thinking, he's shoot fucking magic. And I couldn't, like, I'm going in my mind through the, how, Oh, did they know? Did they see him do it? No, they didn't because you turned your back to the hard game to look at me and give me that moment. And that moment accompanied by I saw John's eyes and he just watched and kind of just like gave me something, you know, just a nod, whatever it is. I'm sure you know, but that did so much, not just for the match and the match as it stands today, not just for the spectacle of WrestleMania, not just for WWE history because WrestleMania 40, it's a 10-year mania. It's everything. It's past, it's present, it's future. It's all those things. But the amount of people who did honors for me and put me over to go over in that moment, I can never, never tell you enough times how grateful I am for it and how special it was and how honored I was and still am. And not only that, pressure in terms of look at what they did. Don't screw this up. look at what they did don't don't honor what they did i say it all the time does this honor what we did here right and i don't use it in a political way i mean it we did all this do we honor it am i still honoring it and i just if i didn't get the opportunity to tell you in person i'd be kicking myself thank you very much i mean thank you it was it it it was a wrestler's dream to have Hall of Famer, Hall of Famer, Mount Rushmore guy, everything right there. My childhood, in addition to that, someone who also taught me things, someone who I drove around, all of it, every piece of it. I couldn't ask. I didn't want to come back and tell my wife. I didn't want to tell her, well, we peaked. I didn't want to say that because I knew like, hey, the road begins now. But I also knew if I never was in that spot again, I was incredibly lucky that I was ever there in the first place. Yeah, no. And the only thank you I think anybody would ever want is for you to do what you've done and continue to grow and grow the sport and take that and go to the next level with it. I mean, that's the only thank yous that anybody would ever ask for. It was an incredibly, incredibly special moment. moment even even for you for us obviously for you and and what's about to happen for you but you know for all of us to be in there again for you know me and rock to be in the ring together again all those things it was it was just such a cool cool moment and um yeah i wish i could say that the eye wink and the lights going out were my doing or i know it was that was just fate and That was a cool, that just happened. But, yeah, man, that was just, again, setting the table for you and an incredible run and I love the way and how serious that you take this business. And, you know, it was just fun. It was a fun night. And the only reason that I moved so fast is because you don't want to screw that up. Yeah, you got to be up for it. Right, you got to be up. They can't do the reveal. Hold up, guys. Hang on. Old man moving in here. Yeah. So it was funny because I'd had just the, probably it hadn't even been a year yet, but I had both my knees replaced. Oh, wow. I did them both. And so they bring me into the bowl to load me, right? And they brought me in at one end of the stadium, and I had to get underneath a hard camera. Make it as difficult as possible. Where I was going to stage. Yeah, yeah. and you know everything the sequences are starting to happen and they're like okay we got to hurry i've never run on my new knees oh my gosh never okay and i'm like okay here we go yeah and here i am man and i'm like holy shit i'm running yes this ain't happened in a while and it feels pretty damn good here, right? So, I may have gotten a little gassed. Yeah. You put those knees to test there. Yeah, the knees were like, I was like, holy shit, I can still go. Yeah. No, absolutely not. I mean, in a way, you did. Well, I got to where I had to get. I got to where I had to get, and then I got to the ring and got in the ring and standing up before the lights come on. So, it was all good. Double knees, and after that, no complications, right? You didn't Like go back to the hospital after that. They're good. These knees are solid. The knees are good, man. My brother Chicken just got the double knee. Yeah, it sucks, man. Yeah. It sucks. I kind of want to mess with him on it. I might even see him later try and challenge him with something that clearly he just had double knee surgery. He's not capable of doing. How far out is he? What, a month or two months? Oh, yeah. You can come slap him in the back. Yeah. He can't catch you. Something like just really frustrating. You mentioned to taking it seriously, the future of the sport, evolving it, growing it, going through whatever challenges present themselves and just trying to leave it better than we found it. You're very much, in terms of looking at the future of everything, AAA. AAA. You were in Mexico City. You're there at the monitor. what what are you seeing in terms of what you're doing now and what you want to do with the future of sports entertainment pro wrestling and the sport in general yeah helping out with creative and doing some stuff with with triple a um i'm trying to like my vision is to take a almost take a step back okay to step forward um yeah i'm i'm I'm really high on the physicality and the actual in-ring stuff and things making sense, which is kind of difficult from where I've come from and then working with AAA. Oh, yeah. You know, the Lucha Libre legacy is incredible, right? With the mask and then there's so many, like as you are a legacy, there's so many, you know, there's this guy who then has a son who has a son. So all these legacies and all this culture is in there. So what we're trying to do is honor that, but give more production value to the product and help storytell a little better. I think that's the biggest thing. Like talking about incredible athletes and the things that they can do, it's amazing. And the following they have is amazing. So if I can take the best of Lucha Libre and the best of what I know and I can mold them together, I think we're going to have something that's really, really special down there. But that's the key is trying to not – I'm not trying to make AAA, Lucha Libre. I'm not trying to make it Raw or SmackDown WWE. I'm taking some elements of that, adding it to what they already do, and try and make a product that everyone will want to see. And it's an alternative. It's just like the other company, Raw, SmackDown, all these other, TNA, just to give people a variety and different things to enjoy about wrestling. I was going to ask you a specific question thinking about AAA and what you would tell someone moving into the future, but I feel like I'm going to kind of specify here because I'm actually very interested in this. Something at my school, the Nightmare Factory, I have yet to figure out how to even address with people because a lot of young wrestlers want to do a big-time gimmick. And when I say big-time gimmick, that's spooky, mystical, artsy, whatever it may be. And I heard a term the other day about someone backstage, and I thought, that's the craziest thing I've ever heard. They referred to somebody as a proper lighting guy. Because basically, they needed all the smoke and mirrors, but they couldn't be seen in this setting. And I thought, hmm, that's not the case with you, in a sense that you were out there, full dead man. And this is throughout all the runs, American Badass, Dead Man, everything, as striking and jujitsu got involved in it, and all your evolutions, all that, you still were able to be in some of the greatest backstages of all time, not proper lighting, and it didn't break the mold on the character. What do you tell someone who's entering that space of 100% layering on a big-time gimmick? I could say proper lighting, but something spooky, something mystical, something that's really fantastical. What would you tell them about how do you get it actually? because to me, you're this anomaly whenever we talk about this. And Bray Wyatt, an anomaly in terms of they were able to make it work. The bell rang still and they were wrestlers. So what's the secret to that formula in terms of being that gimmick? And I don't want to use the word gimmick, but being that character, but making it translate into all facets of how we do TV. As corny as it may sound, you have to believe to a certain degree that you are that gimmick. and again that kind of goes back you know people oh man you live the gimmick you did this and you did that it helped me when i was in the airport and i was all in black and people like oh crap you know who that is yeah like although i wasn't in my ring yet but it was obvious like dude that's that's the that's the undertaker yeah right and although it was different but it was the same And, you know, my interactions were always very calculated with people outside of our dressing room or whatever. I mean, they got to see me, but I was very calculated. So living the gimmick is, but you have to believe in what you're doing, right? You can't just like, okay, I'm this guy now. This is what I am. one you have to find something that that that resonates with you yeah right you you have to have that that that sometimes it could be it's even luck sometimes yeah that whether you find it or whether you don't find it but you have to commit to in my opinion to make something like okay yeah he's different like I knew people that knew I wasn't dead yeah but just figuring it out Like you said, how you would deal with someone in the airport, how you deal with someone. When you were in full, you figured each and every one out, and it made you more of the character. Yeah. It just gave you more tools. Right. I had only John Cena explained that one time about when he was doing the rap gimmick, and he was rapping everywhere. He'd go to a station. He'd do local press. And he said that's where he figured out his rapport. That's where he figured out his kind of brand guidelines to basically stay in it all the time. Yeah. to stay in that all the time, but without insulting anyone either. Yeah. To me, that's... That becomes the difficult part, too. Because, you know, even early on, they would, crazy enough, they would book Paul Bear and I to do Regis and Kathie Lee. I love it. Yeah. And it's like, yeah, I'm hearing it and I'm going, why would they do that to me? Yeah. Right? I mean, I can't interact. Because you know how Regis was, you know, He was a big wrestling fan, and he wanted to have fun and play. And then Kathie Lee was Kathie Lee. Yeah. And, you know, so trying to navigate those kind of waters. And sometimes you just have to, like, I'm going to come off like a dick here to them. Yeah. But my fans and the people that dig what we do are going to totally, like, all right, shit. Because so many times when you get into a different genre or a different, you just naturally kind of gravitate whatever they're doing, right? And you let your guard down. So I had to have that mindset like, okay, you're going to, you know. I remember them cutting up. Like, you know, producers come back and, okay, Kathleen's not much into wrestling. She's probably not going to say anything. You know, Regis, it'll all be with Regis. So you get out there and then she starts chirping, right? She starts saying different things and it's like, okay. So, you know, I'm just like, you know, I'm like, oh, you're in a bad mood. And you, where you want to, like the inside of you just wants to be like, shut up. Like, I'm working here, right? But, you know, obviously you can't, you can't do that. But you have to, you know, you just have to make the best of it. But, you know, there were times where I just, like, I had to live it. There's layers to live in the character, too. Around the time you mentioned Regis and Kathleen, I wanted to ask you, and I thought, I don't want to ask him a question that's like a click-baity type question. Oh, here we go. I do feel this era of, this is my childhood, this era of WWE and this era of WCW as well. You, I don't know how many people had the same, your chemistry with Brett and your chemistry with Sean. You were just the, like the trio. I feel like I don't want to ask, but I have to ask, did you have one you preferred wrestling? Or was it more what you were doing in the, like the creative of it all? Because you hear – there's always like an argument now. I loved them both growing up. Sean was my guy. Right. But then as I got older, I'm like, oh, no, Brett's – I didn't even see all this. Brett's doing something completely different here. And just an appreciation for them both being so great. But you got to be in there with them, all of you, priming up. Yeah. Just getting better. Did you have one you preferred? You know what? I could lose a bet in either one of them. You know what I mean? I did they were both great they're both so good in the ring I probably had the very best chemistry with Sean yeah um and but I tell you what I I've said this a few times about Brett because Brett didn't want to talk about living this and and believing everything Brett did and and I respect that um when Brett was a champion he was the champion right and he conducted himself as a champion and from top to bottom. So, you know, when I started working with Brett, like I was real, real heavy, even in my ring work with the character. Yeah. Right. I was still trying to establish all of that. And there was only so far Brett was going to go with, as he called it, the Frankenstein gimmick, right? There was only so far he was going to go to put me over with that. And I had to, you know, obviously he was a more tenured guy. He was higher up than me, so not a lot I could do about it. And I wanted to have great matches, and I wanted to work with guys like Brett. So being able to work against Brett forced me to learn how to work within the gimmick. I love it. Yeah. With, and have not just a gimmick match, but to have really, really good matches. Yeah. And Brett forced me to get out of the comfort zone of the, you know, the Jason Voorhees, the Michael Myers stuff, and actually put on a wrestling match. So for that, I'll always be grateful to Brett because he pushed me and made me become better. Yeah. And then, you know, I've always said this about Sean. Like, Sean may be the only guy I've ever known that could have a five-star match with a broomstick. I mean, he's just that talented. But, hey, I'll give you first pick. I'll take the other guy. Right? Yeah. Oh, man. Yeah. I mean, either one of them. The fact that you got to navigate the waters in terms of you had the great matches with both of them. You're very much part of their stories, and they're very much part of your stories. I'd heard you say that about Brett before, and I think that's really cool because at what point does that happen? You're kind of getting hit, always coming back up, getting hit, taking so much to keep you down. For example, the amazing arm in the casket segment, which just selfishly, do you remember who produced this segment? Was it Bruce? Probably back then. Yeah. When we did it, it was probably Bruce. Yeah. I would imagine, yeah. Because it's as modernized and as high res as it is, it's also the most old school thing you've ever seen. Like you felt that you took, oh, what can we do? We can't keep him down. No, we can. Yeah. This is how we're going to do it. And I thought, oh, the poor you had to get just lacquered with this chair over. But it's such a great segment. I'm glad it was Bruce because you know how much your Bruce is everything. You're just Bruce's – I consider myself a bit of a Bruce guy because he came back and got me. He literally found me, got me, and I'm loyal to him. When I came back from WrestleMania 39, it was all so real. Man, I don't know if I'm going to be able to a full year on this chase, whatever. And he was the first one to be there for me. But Bruce, every story relates to something with you. Every story ends up going back to something with you. And I'm sure you know that already. But yeah, that segment's an amazing segment. It was selfish. I wanted to know who's behind it. It felt very much like a Bruce segment. Yeah, Bruce had most of my, those early days, Bruce did most of my stuff. All of the flesh freezing vignettes in the cemeteries and all that crap that we did. I got to ask you, and I didn't think I would ask you, because I try to avoid dusty talk on here a lot. Because you've done Dale Jr.'s pod, right? Have you ever done Dale? We've never been able to hook up on it. He's the best. Yeah. I've heard that. I noticed when I watch other race car drivers and other people, it all ends up being a talk. They talk a lot about his dad. Yeah. And he said one time in a full, basically, you know, like we all do, sometimes you see what the critics and haters are saying. I saw him one time give like a little bit of a prologue in a sense like, hey, guys, we're going to talk about my dad on the show. So if you don't like it, I'm sorry. Right. This is a legendary race car driver who raced with him. And I try to avoid it, but often it's hard to avoid. that your debut in WWE, your debut. Yeah. And I always look at it a little differently because it's your debut. And I think my dad was also on the way out. Yeah. Leaving. Yeah. How was that? Was it fun or was it terrible? No, no. It felt like you're walking through everyone basically and nothing's fully established yet. You know, I don't think we're tombstoning yet or- Yeah, well, yeah. Coco got, ended up getting the first tombstone. Yeah. Which was very brutal. But my sense, and I could be totally wrong, it felt like it had to be pretty rough. Yeah, well, it was. The marching orders on like, hey, this is what's happening. And you've got some who's who in there. So you didn't have to know at the time, but almost everyone in WWE had been a massive star in a territory somewhere. Right. So they'd done the top for them. And now coming up it was a different ballgame Right So can you speak to that Because now I thinking about my dad takes this like goofy throat chop I don even know what it is Well, I was thinking about early strike was an underhand chop to the throat. It's an amazing debut for you, and this is a Survivor Series. How was that day? It was nerve-wracking, right? Yeah. Because I'd had the little, not a run, I wouldn't even consider it a run. And so, you know, in WCW. Yep. And, you know, obviously they tell me, you know, they got nothing for me. And so I end up there. And now I have this incredible gimmick, right? Like no one, like we don't know where it's at yet. Yeah. We're still trying to, and I'm still trying to figure out what it is that I'm going to, what this guy is. I just know he's going to be methodical. Yeah. Slow paced right now. And, you know, I'm going to debut at Survivor Series. And in the ring is Bret Hart and Jim the Envil-Knight Hart and Honky Tonk Man and Ted DiBiase, Dusty Rhodes. You know, and then they come and tell me, yeah, you're going to pretty much steamroll. Whole team. Everyone. Yeah. And again, I think a lot of the guys that were in that ring were finishing up. And some of them begrudgingly. Yeah, okay. And I'm like, oh, boy. What a rough day, dude. Yeah, it's a, yeah. This is popping. Like, yeah, I gotta go out and get myself over. Yeah. I got this new gimmick that I don't know exactly what I'm doing yet. And I've got a bunch of disgruntled people that are gonna have to sell for me. Yeah. And, you know. Disenfranchised. Disenfranchised. Your producer's probably not helping you that much. You've gotta actually do this. Yeah. Oh. It was a bit nerve-wracking. And then, you know, that era of guys, too, they were salty, man. They were. Yeah. Especially if you're getting finished up and moving out of the territory. Sure. Then follow the money, too, in terms of if you weren't working. Yeah. This is a little bit right around guarantee, pre-guarantee time. Yeah, pre-guarantees. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, yeah, it was a little tense out there, you know. And, you know, you can hear a few guys chirping here and there. Oh, we all got to sell for this kid, you know. And I was like, oh, brother, you know, here we go. But – and then being in the ring, again, like with your dad, who was – you know, when I – he's one of the guys, obviously, that I watched. You know, loved all the stuff with him and Flair and that whole, you know, decades of battles. And then, yeah, you're standing across the ring from these guys, right? Yeah. And it was a nerve-wracking day. And eventually, me and your dad fought out. Yeah, we fought out. We both got counted out. That was how. This doesn't sound like it. It's tricky. Yeah. Yeah. So they had to get me out. So I murder all these other guys. But then they have to get me out to eliminate me. But they don't want to pin me, obviously. So, yeah, me and Dusty get to fight out, and I lose on a count out. Do you remember that? Was he difficult? No, no, no. He was great. Yeah? He knew. Yeah. I love hearing that. No, he knew. His face makes it look like he was being difficult. No, not at all. Okay, good. No, no, no, no. Yeah. Come on, Kia. Come on. Keep it up, baby. Yeah? Yeah. No, he was. Yeah. No, no, not at all. Like, your dad knew business. I mean, it was just, you know, it was just what it was, man. I think he had a knack, like you said, and most people don't realize because you look at from maybe the selfish, the whole body of work, a booker, a champ, all these things. But when we'd watch wrestling, modern wrestling, ECW was a thing when I was growing up. I'd always watch him watch it. And that was what you just said was something I realized. He gets business. It might be totally different, but he gets like, no, this is working. We got to roll with this. This is what the direction, this is what ear to the ground sounds like. Like you're the same. It's crazy. Lucha Libre, AAA. I mean, but then you have Mel Mascaris. That's your guy growing up. And now you're down there and you're part of that wonderful tradition. And you said something that thank you for saying it because I like to take things. This is my, this is, again, we don't have the live events. I have this podcast. So I get to talk to the greatest of the greats. And here's something you said, take a step back to then take a step forward. Right. Thank you. What a great, because there's always a challenge. We joked about the record house, all that. Well, those eventually, you know, and then it's your gig to bring them back and to take a step back to take a step forward. It's really, man, it's a really nice way to put it. My gosh. What's old will be new again. Yeah. Right? Yeah. Man, I'm so glad I asked about Survivor Series. He wasn't. He was in a good mood, huh? Yeah. Yeah. No, everything was good, man. Man, what a rough run. you're coming in and murdering a lot of guys and doing a pal driver yeah yeah so that was you know i've told the i've told the story like i kind of blew it off because i didn't really think it was that bad yeah and i don't really i don't like once i became once i became undertaker yeah like i i watched of course i was doing my outside like studying like on michael myers and all the you know all the the slasher killers and then trying to figure out how to incorporate all that to what I wanted to do. But I kind of stopped watching. I didn't know what was going on in Japan. I didn't know what was going on in WCW. I was so focused on what I was going to do. And then I was watching the guys that I was competing with. So I didn't have a lot of, you know, my knowledge on wrestling was pretty small in the sense of what other people have done. Sure. So I give the first tombstone to Coco Beware, right? Yeah. And we get back. And again, this is, again, I think he was one of the guys that was going to finish up. I don't think he ended up finishing up. Yeah. He was on the list of guys that were finishing up. So we'll get back in the back, and he kind of gets in my face, which was kind of humorous, too, because Coco's not a tall guy. but uh he's like giving me the riot act in this hallway about hey man if i'll give you my body you got to protect me and uh which i'm yeah absolutely yeah but i'm i don't know like that the two i didn't know that it didn't feel like i thumped him or yeah and you know and he's like you gotta protect you know he's really giving me the riot act and i'm like i'm apologizing yeah like like dude i that is not my that is not my deal like i don't well you know i want to be safe and like if I hurt you I apologize yeah right I don't know what else I can say and and we keep going you know and he keeps going and I guess he's you know he's upset and he's got a bunch of other stuff going on his mind too so it finally gets to a point where I'm like bro I've apologized to you yeah now this is my first this is my first day in the company and now I'm having I'm already having this issue right and i'm like like do we have to go out in the lot right yeah i mean that's not what i wanted obviously i didn't want you know i just that's not what i wanted to do but it's like i didn't know what else i like i can only you could only cuss me for so long yeah you've made your point i mean i don't know what else i can say and you guys didn't go in the parking no no we didn't he left i mean you know he and we were fine we were friends and everything was cool and but it was just in the moment but yeah there's not many locker room arguments anymore but i do find that they all do end at that point yeah whereas okay are we fighting like just a classic are we fighting is that no we're not okay then you can only say sorry so many times right yeah i mean you have to yeah if you know that's just a point you have to go okay we got to go somewhere else with this and nobody wants that but you it's the era too it was just kind of like It was salty. Last fight I remember was Big Show and Khali. That was the last fight I remember watching. It's so funny to hear the different descriptions on how the fight went. You know, like some people talk about hearing the thunderous blows because they were so big. They were both hitting each other so hard. And then the fight ends because Show fell off the suitcase, right? But then he was upset because it looked like he had lost the fight. Somebody might have told him he lost. He did. So you told him he lost. So one of my favorite things in life is I love show. I truly do. But he has been on the receiving end of many, many ass chewings for me. And all of it out of that love because I knew how much potential and talent that he really had, and I wanted him to use all of it. But he did receive a lot of grief from me. And he hit Khali so hard. I had to look behind Khali to see what was holding him up. He ate a right hand. Okay. He ate a right hand from Big Show. Yeah. That's the sound, that sound that, it sounded like dropping a big ribeye steak on the counter. All right. And it was like, ooh. Kali just took a couple steps back, and then they locked up again. And Big Show was getting to him a little bit. But then he trips on the suitcase, and they end up in this little bitty locker, like the wooden locker with a seat. So Big Show falls into it with Kali on top of him. And then that's when Regal gets involved and fishhooks Kali to pull him off. It was so good. It was good stuff. But the show was getting to him. But I never let him know. I was like, oh, man, Khalif. Man, he was on top of you, man. Your way you were with the show, Big Show, who I love, your way you were. I don't know if anyone else has ever told you this. He often will say, Taker told me this. Taker told me this. Taker told me. He was really big on reiterating something you had taught him. And I don't know if I've told this story on the podcast before, but I had a moment with a show that was, it changed my entire career. But I was wrestling for 10 nights in a row just on an overseas tour. And it was before we had wrestled at WrestleMania. And he was beating, the first three or four nights we were doing so much ha-ha. Right. Hit me. He found this rubber chicken one time, beat me with it and kept asking me to feed up and get hit with it more. And then had me spit someone's drink in his mouth. It was just a lot of kind of like this vaudeville comedy. And I don't know what was striking me at the time. Again, like there's other stuff going on with you. And usually your dancing partner has to somehow hear about it or feel it because it's hard to keep it all contained. But I told myself, I'm going to go in the locker room. I'm going to tell them, hey, I don't really want to do the comedy stuff anymore. And I'm talking myself up on the bus. And, you know, I got a good relationship with him. He seems to listen to my ideas when I have them. So, okay. And I just told him, I said, hey, I don't want to do ha-ha anymore. I want to get this to the right place before WrestleMania. And he was not happy. But he kind of, I could tell he looked at me and wanted to probably say something meaner. But then maybe rethought it. And he just looked at me, though, and he goes, OK, well, then you should get over. And he left. And I thought, yep, yep, that's right. And we did more comedy for the next six nights than we had ever done. And there was a lesson in it all, because I remember he's like, did you hear him out there? When you come back, you have equity with this crowd. You entertain them on this random live event show that didn't have a lot of things on. They'll remember. They'll remember everything. And he was dead on. Dead right. People still talk about silly stuff that we did. And the rubber chicken is still somehow involved in my career to find its way into the ring. All the things you've done. Yeah, yeah, that rubber chicken. Yeah, I know. Are you ready to hold WWE history in the palm of your hand? Topps is bringing you closer to the action than ever before with WWE Topps Now. highlighting the biggest matches and milestones from WWE shows and PLEs throughout the year. Topps Now is enhancing the fan experience by connecting collectors to the superstars and spectacles that ignite their passion. Featuring stunning event-exclusive photography, each card is made for the moment, and for some lucky collectors, that moment could become the pull of a lifetime. Along with serial-numbered parallels, some Topps Now releases offer a chance at rare short prints, superstar autographs, and even pieces of the mat, gear, or other items used during the featured match. So, which moment will you collect? With each card only available for a limited time, you won't want to wait to begin your Topps Now journey. Be sure to subscribe to the WWE Topps Now mailing list on Topps.com and follow Topps on all social media platforms so you never miss a single moment. have you ever heard my royal rumble story about you i i saw a small clip of it dude it's it's uh so much of it is special to me but there's also this lack of preparation and then when i go to the garden there's this feeling of the that was the last time that the short entrance was at the garden the old school entrance i think it's welded over now it's impossible yeah you can't even come out the side anymore. But, you know, it was my first Royal Rumble and CM Punk is backstage. And I remember him telling me, he's like, what do you got planned? I don't know. I throw another guy out, like joke around. I don't know. He's like, well, no, it's like you're 30 to 90 seconds, man. Like, got to do something. Right. So now I'm thinking, what an idiot. I'm an idiot. I should have talked to all these guys because he's getting deep in the day. Right. You know, like I should have come up with something. So I talked to him, like, can we do this? Yeah, of course. Yeah, it sounds great. I'm like, oh, thank gosh. that spot i did with him last maybe nine seconds nine seconds yeah it's so quick and it's like the spot happens with punk where i think it was like a reverse atomic drop and he i almost dump him out which was not a good call because he was a beloved baby face at the time and i was just kind of on the come up but right when that happens it's like they missed production missed that whole spot but then they're like hey it's cody's he's in there he's in the center so it's just me on the video wall right in the center. I'm not doing anything now. So I have this second or two to think, what could I do? And then you were in the corner. I just remember like what Randy had taught me and what everyone else I thought, yeah, I'll just, yeah, I'll, he's the big dog in the yard. So I'll go for, I'll go after him. And I'm not thinking about part two of this. I'm just thinking I'm going to, they're on me. I can't not commit. I can't freeze. So I run up behind you. And I always tell people i hit you really super hard i don't think i did but i think i hit you hard enough that you could not not sell you could not you had to know someone was at least behind you yeah i had to do something but i hit you in the back and then i saw you flip your hair and and you you started backpedaling again in the slasher style and you're turning i'm oh man oh like i'm the heel now um and they're filming now they're on just us it's a two shot this this This looks like it was a pre-call. This looks like the spot, but this isn't the spot I would have ever prepared. And now I'm thinking, well, obviously, you just sell at this point. This is an easy gig at this point. Not my ideal go, but just sell. He's going to goozle you, whatever it may be. And you did. So you goozled me, thinking, well, I'm going up. And this is the era of jump as high as you can, which I wish that era would come back. Jump as high as you can. Try and jump higher than your buddy. All those things, right? Right. So you goozled me, but then you kind of shaken me and you said, kick me in the knee. I kicked you in the knee. And I'm thinking, all right, I have no clue. We're in uncharted territory here, but you still kind of half got me. And he said, dropkick me. I do a dropkick. Thinking, oh, all right, great. I dropkick you. And you took this big bump. You took this big bump and I thought 21 years old no clue like I don't even know where to get my gear from at this point I don't even know how I got called up I know I got called up I was Dusty's son and they thought oh he's ready long before I was ready to go but I'm so glad I got that experience because nothing could have prepared me for anything like that but the best part is you took this great bump and in my mind i'm thinking that that that's great undertaker's undertaker's cool he's the coolest but also what do you do it's the objective is to throw another guy out so i'm not gonna pick you up right i just kind of go over to a corner and grab a leg and i think you kind of came and got me like hey what's up man like hey like hey and they're like to finish like you can't just drop kick me and take a ball and then not nothing happened but i had nothing else and it It ended up being this great moment. There's a really great picture. And it's the garden. I got to be in there for a little bit and feel it. And this was the rumble where Michael Hayes was telling everybody to sell for everyone. Fast forward to years later when he's like, don't sell for everyone. Don't sell for everyone. What? Which is it? Freebird? But that was just such a great moment. Thank you, by the way. That was really special. I also, the art of calling it. Right. Never saw it. Just you and Hunter and the talking carny or hair in front of your mouth, whatever it was. Magic was not revealed. And I thought, that's just, I got so much out of it. The smallest thing. Yeah, there's times I would choose those kind of instances to do things that, even you. You're like, oh, he's going to kill me now. He's going to, you know. I like to create little moments like that in those kind of matches that catch people off guard. Yeah. Right? And then, you know, what you do with that after the fact is kind of left up to you. But it's like, people are looking around like, what the? Yeah. What just happened there, right? And sometimes it helps, sometimes it doesn't. It's worth taking the shot. It's worth taking the shot sometimes. It's not going to hurt me. Yeah. Right? But what it potentially could do for you or whoever I'm doing that kind of stuff with, it could potentially turn it into something really good. Cheers to that. Cheers. For sure. Thank you. Cheers. as we wrap up this wonderful speakeasy busy signal in austin texas i have to ask you we ask everybody who comes on the pod wheelie american vodka and myself we like to consider ourselves the american dream team and i like to ask everyone who is their dream team and i always say it can be zombie apocalypse it can be survivor series it can be a man and his dog it's your number of people or objects or animals. It's who's coming with you. Who's coming with me? Yeah. And how many do I need? Four? Four is a safe spot. Four is a safe spot? Four is a safe spot, yeah. Hmm. My dream team. I'm going to have to start with my brother. You know, Kane's got my back on that. So, hmm. My dream team. I'm going to take Sean with me. Oh, wow. All right. Kurt Angle. Okay. So no one's going to beat this team at all. Mm-mm. Yeah. All right. We're talking like a wrestling match, right? It's a dream team, right? It's a dream team. Are we talking like going into a bar fight, or are we talking about a wrestling match? I think in both settings, this kind of is working because of the fact that you have Kurt. Well, Kurt helps. Yeah. Kurt's helping a lot. We got Sean to get us into the fight. Yep. And we got Kurt to get you out. Kurt and Payne to get us out. Yep. I need one more. Yeah. Andre. Well, that's the forever five-on-five champ for perpetuity. Yeah, we're not doing too many jobs. No, I don't think you're doing any. I tried to, back in the day, my dad would have me come up with war games teams in the car. He'd be like, what's your team? and he'd always be, yeah, it's not good. It's not good. And I finally was like, what's the problem with this team? He goes, you got to pick someone who can lose. And I thought, oh, oh, all right, all right. We'll put him in there. Yeah, because I was just picking every awesome top talent. See, that's next level thinking, though. He's thinking as the booker. You got to be able to beat somebody here. But I feel like those old war games, it was so clearly J.J. Dillon or Paul Ellering. It was almost like you isolated, don't get near Paul a little bit. He's holding the zone, but don't get near JJ. There's a whole other psychology to it. Once they do, same with Bobby Heenan in a lot of those settings, right? Here at Busy Signal, I'm going to show you this Wheatley vodka jingle, and I'm going to ask you to change one of the words to it. Here you go. Wheatly, so good, I drink it neatly. Watch in Moscow, always get the mule. Vodka this good is an American jewel. Wheatly, so good, I drink it neatly. Wheatly, so good, I drink it neatly. If you could take the word neatly and replace it with anything, what would you do? Wheatly, so good, I drink it... Nightly. Nightly? That's perfect. ladies and gentlemen Hall of Famer on what do you want to talk about and please catch part two as I am coming to your podcast yeah it's happening yeah ladies and gentlemen The Undertaker oh