Episode 333

Starting a business can be overwhelming. You're juggling multiple roles, designer, marketer, logistics manager, all while bringing your vision to life. Shopify helps millions of business sell online. Build fast with templates and AI descriptions and photos, inventory and shipping. Sign up for your one euro per month trial and start selling today at shopify.nl. That's shopify.nl. It's time to see what you can accomplish with Shopify by your side. Sword and Scale contains adult themes and violence and is not intended for all audiences. Listener discretion is advised. When you get the light detector test set up for him, then you'll just have to contact me. Jay, what's going to be placed under arrest? No, he can't be. He's 16 years old. Where do you think you're going to take him? Juvenile detention. No. Didn't think we'd be back so soon, did ya? Always so pessimistic. Always so negative, this audience. I don't know what's wrong with you people. Anyway, I hope you had a good holiday season. We have some big news, so don't skip ahead just yet. We got something to tell you, and I think you're going to like it. Or maybe you won't. Who knows? You guys always complain about everything, so it's hard to tell. It's really a losing battle sometimes with you guys. Such misanthropes. No? Anyway, this is Season 13, Episode 333 of Sword and Scale, a show that reveals that the worst monsters are... real. All right, here's what we got for you. Sword and Scale Television is now available on YouTube. That's right. It's on YouTube. You can get it for just $10 a month on YouTube. Now, here's the thing. A lot of people are not very technologically inclined. So just understand it's a separate service, a separate subscription. on a separate platform. It's not connected to our website in any way. So it's like a standalone kind of thing over there on YouTube. If you just want to see the video and you don't like the podcast for whatever reason, it's available as a standalone video service and you can add audio for another 10 bucks on top of it on YouTube. So there you go. That's what we got for you. Hope you like it. Starting a business can be overwhelming. You're juggling multiple roles, designer, marketer, logistics manager, all while bringing your vision to life. Shopify helps millions of business sell online. Build fast with templates and AI descriptions and photos, inventory and shipping. Sign up for your one euro per month trial and start selling today at Shopify.nl. That's Shopify.nl. It's time to see what you can accomplish with Shopify by your side. Monday, September 2nd, 2019, was Labor Day. It was a day that many people circled on their calendars. The unofficial end of summer. One last chance to soak up the sunshine, to hike, and to explore. In southeastern Ohio, there's no better place for that than Hocking Hill State Park. With over 25 miles of hiking trails, massive rock formations, explorable caves, and towering waterfalls, this park is the perfect place to get lost in nature. For many, it's like a sanctuary. But on Labor Day 2019, it became something else entirely. 911, where's your emergency? Okay, take a breath. You're at Old Man's Cave? Yes. Okay, and what happened? A tree branch fell on her. Slow down. I can't understand you. What happened? A tree branch fell on her. A tree branch fell on someone. Yeah, no, it's like after three. Okay, are you with her? That afternoon, the Hawking County 911 Dispatch Center lit up with panicked phone calls, all coming from teenagers. They said a log had fallen from the cliffs at the state park and hit a woman hard in the head. I remember being in the park and just making goofy memories, and we decided to go on a hike to one of the other places, and we ended up getting lost. We were talking about running marathons and just laughing and making good memories. When we started to hear a bunch of cracking tree branches and a large cracking sound, almost as if a tree had fallen. As I heard this sound, I turned around, myself and Bella only being two steps away from her. and I watch as a seven-foot log falls from the sky and strikes Mrs. Schaefer in the head. My immediate reaction was to bend down to help her. The woman hit by the log was a 46-year-old professional photographer. She was also a beloved wife, daughter, and mother of four children. Her name was Victoria Schaefer. Victoria managed to complete her undergraduate schooling, and later, after her marriage, she graduated with a master's degree. One of Victoria's most fortunate life decisions was to meet and eventually marry someone she met while we were on a family vacation to Maine, Fritz Schaefer. While I had been notoriously hard on all her previous boyfriends, this one appeared to me to show promise. And he definitely loved her. We were blessed over the next several years with four wonderful grandchildren who have made us extremely proud. As a photographer, one of Victoria's regular gigs was taking portraits for local high school students. I think she did 15 weddings, 90 or so high school seniors. She owned a sports and school photography business that she was building up and many other events. Victoria Schaefer was one of the most kind-hearted, amazing people I have ever met. She never let anyone show their fake smile. How could you when you were around her? She always knew how to make you smile just the way she wanted to to get the perfect picture. And it wasn't just because she was taking your picture. You were genuinely happy to be around her. On Labor Day of 2019, Victoria had gone to Hocking Hills State Park with a group of high school seniors. They had just finished a photo shoot and were walking towards the parking lot to leave when tragedy struck. The other seniors and I can tell you it started with a crack of what sounded like tree branches falling down on us, which had me frantically looking around until my eyes had met a huge log hitting the side of Ms. Schaefer's head, bringing her to the ground instantly. And I will say, this image is in my nightmares and in my mind forever. For a slight second, I was in shock before then jumping to see if she was all right. But she was just lying there, lifeless. I tried calling out her name, hoping to get a response. But there wasn't one. At this point, we still had hope, just thinking she was unconscious. But in the back of our minds, we all knew. From the teenager's perspective, a six-foot-long, 75-pound log had seemingly fallen from the sky. It came down with crushing force, landing directly on Victoria, killing her instantly. The group was following along this trail back to the parking lot when out of nowhere, a 70-plus-pound log came crashing down from above, crushing the photographer. The students and other people nearby called 911, but her injuries were far too severe. She had a 12-inch long gash on the top of her head, three inches wide. It broke her spine in two places, crushed her chest cavity, and broke six ribs, along with multiple other internal and external injuries. Since this tragedy had taken place at a state park, two agencies were responsible for figuring out what happened. Victoria's death was investigated by the Hawking County Sheriff's Office and Ohio's Department of Natural Resources. We're right above the top of Old Man's Cave is what I know this as. On top of here to my left is there's a walkway where the tunnel would be located. In front of us is where the tree stump was located. And we'll be walking, doing a walkthrough here. And what we believe is here, located in this section, is where the approximately six-foot log was located at, which you can still kind of see where the log was located with discoloration, where it's been there for quite some time. From there, it was carried over approximately about where Nicole and Rose is at, where they're getting ready to go off the side. They're going to do an exact measurement from the edge down to where the female deceased was found. Investigators quickly determined that Victoria's death wasn't a freak accident. This wasn't a case of a tree falling or a log simply rolling off a cliff by itself. All the evidence indicated that someone had moved the log and thrown it over the edge. In other words, Victoria hadn't simply died. She had been murdered. This news not only stunned the community, but it also left Victoria's family completely devastated. When I was told Victoria had died, our family initially believed it had been a natural accident, an act of God, if you will. In my mind, I could have accepted that she died doing what she loved and that no one was responsible beyond nature itself. It was only days later when investigators told us that they believed that this was no freak accident, that it began to feel differently about how she was killed. The next step for investigators was to figure out who had thrown the log that killed Victoria and why they had done it. They questioned whether this had been a planned attack or if someone had simply made a reckless and deadly decision. Initially, only one thing was certain. Whoever threw the log hadn't come forward. They fled the scene without ever saying a word. Eventually, investigators received a tip about a young man who had allegedly taken responsibility. for throwing the log. 19-year-old Isaiah Singry had been at Hocking Hill State Park, and his family had reported expressed concern that he might have been involved. A few days after the incident, investigators went to Isaiah's home to speak with him. Sheriff's Office, come to the door. when an officer knocked on isaiah's door there was no response for nearly 15 minutes about 10 cops searched and lingered outside his home they peered through windows looking for any sign that someone might be inside but they saw nothing finally the front door opened but it wasn't Isaiah, who appeared. It was a young woman named Raven. She was Isaiah's girlfriend. Where else does he stay? He's just here and at his house. So, if he's not here, you probably don't care for us to step in and look? Raven, we're not playing. We know he's here. Don't get yourself in. He's done something you don't need to be. Tell him to get his butt out here. When investigators questioned Raven, she lied and told them that Isaiah wasn't home. But when they pressed her and asked if they could check the home, she shrugged her shoulders and walked back inside. A few moments later, Isaiah finally appeared. Come on out, Isaiah. How are you? Good. You got scared the shit out of me. Why? Oh, no, I never had a bunch of shares pull up to my house before looking for me. You never had that happen? That's a good thing. We need to talk to you about something serious. We need your honest truth. We want to get something to care of. You need to get a walk or something? Yeah, we're going to go for a ride. When's this all over? Well, that's when we're going to go have a chat. As officers placed Isaiah in the back of a police cruiser, several of his family members began arriving at the house. They were immediately questioned. Yeah, I watched the news yesterday. Very disturbing. And I had a feeling it was my kids. What made you think that? Because all the pictures on Facebook of them climbing that wall. And, you know, it was scary. What did Isaiah tell you? That they didn't know they hurt anybody. What's that? That they didn't know if they did hurt somebody, they didn't know. What did Isaiah say he talked over? Because he talked about it. Oh, he didn't tell me he tossed anything over. Oh, God. What did Isaiah say, though? But they were climbing on rocks? Yeah. Climbing on caves and stuff they're not supposed to be on. Okay. He said he didn't know what happened. He didn't know anything it hurt anybody until the next day. How do you think he hurt somebody? Something fell and landed on her. I watched it on Krem at school today. Did Isaiah say what it was? He was trying to look at her to see what exactly happened on Krem, but it said that a log or a tree fell on top of her. Did he say anything about a tree or a log? Isaiah, no, he was just saying that it's dope that he killed someone. That's what? Dope. Allegedly, Isaiah had thought it was dope that he had killed someone. If you're older than me, that means cool, or hip, or groovy, man. Between his refusal to answer the door when officers came knocking and these statements from his own family, things weren't really looking rosy for Isaiah. So investigators brought him and his girlfriend Raven in to the sheriff's office for questioning. Why did you open the door? Why did you lie about it? About Isaiah being there? Because he told me to tell you guys that he wasn't there. You think that's a normal response? No. Our experience, the only people usually high and lied. Do you know what happened at El State Parks? And why you're here talking to us? No. No idea? No. Isaiah thought he killed somebody. Well, my mom told Isaiah that him and my brother would be in the plane for killing somebody on Labor Day, but I don't know. So why do you think for talking to you about it? Because Isaiah, my brother, was off the trail. According to witnesses, Raven's brother and Isaiah had entered a restricted area at Hocking Hill State Park. They'd climbed a cliff that put them directly above the spot where Victoria Schaefer was killed. When investigators questioned Isaiah about this, he seemed genuinely unaware of what had happened. During his interview, Isaiah described the path he and Raven's brother had taken through the park. Yeah. So who else did you know that was there with you? My girlfriend's brother. Dylan. Dylan. Right one. Yep. During his interview, Isaiah described the path he and Raven's brother had taken through the park. He also openly admitted that he had climbed into a restricted area. One of the trails that go up and around is real tall, and you can look straight down like it, and it's a straight drop off. Okay, we looked down like that, and then we noticed there's a rock down below us. So we walked all the way around when we got to the bar. But it literally had a sign that said don't climb. And we only climbed up, probably about. So there was a sign that you climbed up anyways. Well, it's only like, it literally had steps though. But listen, it was only like 10, 20 foot up. It wasn't that high. It's like you don't have a sign that says don't push the right button. You push the right button. I know. But listen, it's like 10 to 20 foot high. And we got up there. And we got our pictures taken and stuff. And we climbed down. We did do stupid shit. I didn't go like to. We did this climb up on like rocks that said do not climb. I'm going to take a picture of you, but that was it. Isaiah claimed that the only thing he did after climbing into that restricted area was to take some photos. He said nothing about throwing a log or anything else off the edge of the cliff. Well, there was comments that was made about you thinking that you killed somebody. Where did this come from? Because everybody said, this is what I heard. This is how I very first heard from it. My girlfriend's mom calls me crying. She's like, I'm like, what the hell is your problem, dude? She's like, they're saying you and Dylan killed some girl at the National Forest. And I'm like, what are you talking about? And she's like, well, you guys went off the trail and sat and took pictures and stuff. They're saying that something fell off and hit some lady and killed her. As investigators spoke with Isaiah, it became clear that the tips they had received were nothing more than rumors, most of which had been started by his overly concerned mother. No, I wasn't even there Monday. I was there Saturday. The truth was, Isaiah, Raven, and Raven's brother hadn't even been at the state park on the day Victoria was killed. They were there on Saturday, two days before the incident. On Labor Day, when Victoria died, both Isaiah and Raven were at home all day with their kids. What day were you out of the home man's cave? What day were you out there? Saturday. This last Saturday? Yeah. Did you come back any? Like, go back? Yeah, did you ever come, after Saturday, did you go back to Wilmaid's Cave? No. So you never came back here, back to Wilmaid's Cave? No. Back to Dr. County after that, but then got to the caves, nothing like that. And that was Saturday, right? Yeah. Fortunately for Isaiah, he was cleared of any wrongdoing. Unfortunately for investigators, they were back to square one. The question of who killed Victoria Schaefer was still unanswered, and it stayed that way for a while Here at 2nd and Walnut Streets in downtown Chillicothe just 48 hours after Victoria Schaefer death in front of her photography studio here people have already started to drop off candles and flowers to remember her. It still hits me with a lot of shock that she's just not here and I feel worse for her family especially her younger daughters. Hoped for a resolution to the mystery surrounding her death and the apprehension of the person or people the ODNR says are responsible for somehow dislodging the tree limb that fell on Schaefer, killing her as the group hiked Hocking Hills, snapping senior photos along the way. They probably never meant for that to happen because Victoria was so loved. I couldn't think of somebody who would want to hurt her. Just I hope that they come forward, you know, and admit what they have done. Her family deserves that. ODNR, the Hocking County Sheriff's Department and BCI are all investigating the incident. They're asking anyone that may have seen something suspicious regarding Schaefer's death to call authorities. For over a month, there were no answers to the mystery surrounding Victoria's death. But in early October 2019, the Hawking County Sheriff's Office received a credible tip. This time from a mother and her teenage daughter. My daughter's a student at Logan High School, and she has a friend that she rides the bus with. and this friend's boyfriend had admitted to her that he took part in the death of, I'm trying to think of what her name was, Miss Shaffer. Uh-huh. Actually, I'm going to have you speak to my daughter. She can give you the information a little bit better than what I can, okay? All right. Hello. Hi. A girl at the bus with Bailey Cherry, her now ex-boyfriend, Jordan Buckley, apparently was one of the two boys at the park who partook in the branch falling down and hitting Ms. Schrafer. He says he's not the one who hit it, his friend who he's with was, but I don't know his friend's name. What grade is Jordan in? Tenth. And apparently the other boy involved is in 11th grade, but I, Bailey said his name, but I can't recall it because I've never heard his name before. Investigators were given the name of a suspect, 16-year-old Jordan Buckley, a student at Logan High School in Logan, Ohio. They looked into Jordan and confirmed he'd been at Hocking Hill State Park on the day Victoria died. Then they got access to his social media messages. That's when it all started to make sense. Victoria's death wasn't the result of a random accident or a planned attack. Her death was caused by two teenage boys who had made one very reckless and irreversible decision. Thank you. That's Shopify.nl. It's time to see what you can accomplish with Shopify by your side. Let's talk about something most people don't think about until it's too late. If you drink, even occasionally, you already know how unpredictable the next morning can be. Sometimes you're fine. Sometimes you're not. That's where liqueur comes in. Liqueur makes gummies designed to help prevent hangovers by supporting your body while it processes alcohol. 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Build fast with templates and AI descriptions and photos, inventory and shipping. Sign up for your one euro per month trial and start selling today at shopify.nl. That's shopify.nl. It's time to see what you can accomplish with Shopify by your side. On September 2nd, 2019, 46-year-old photographer Victoria Schaefer was killed at Hocking Hill State Park when a log fell from a cliff and brutally struck her in the head. At first, this tragedy appeared to be an accident, but it quickly evolved into a murder investigation. This actually happened back on Labor Day of last year in 2019, And at first, everyone thought it was just a terrible act of nature. A log comes rolling off a cliff in a wilderness area, and then it evolves. And we pretty quickly find out from investigators that it was maybe not an accident. And I think that shocked everyone. After weeks with no answers, investigators finally identified a suspect, a 16-year-old high school student named Jordan Buckley. According to one of Jordan's classmates, he had admitted to doing something terrible at the state park. Investigators went to Logan High School, took over a conference room, and invited Jordan to have a conversation with them. But now that I know what this is about, this is, I was there that day, I think, I don't care what day it was, but I know it's in like September. So it was last month, me and my friends were. I know you're nervous and you're going to get it all out. That's great. We want you to get it on. Just let me finish up a few things right here, and we'll let you talk as much as you want. Nothing really happened. When Jordan was brought in for questioning, he seemed eager to tell his side of the story and talk about the day that Victoria died. That was, of course, perfectly fine with investigators. That day, me and my friends, I don't know if you guys want me to give you their names or not. Oh, yeah. It doesn't really matter. J.D. Churches, Miranda Spencer, and A.J. I don't know A.J.'s last name. It was just us. We were just walking around. So we were like, what's going on a hike? And we were just going on a hike. So you was at Hillman's Cave? Yeah, we were at Hillman's Cave. That's where we went. And then when we went there, nothing was happening. But we went up, like on the back side of the hill. And we came back because some guy told us that someone got smashed by a branch. So we turned around and we went down towards the bottom part. and then we came back up and there was a bunch of like EMS people running past us and sirens and everything. Really? Yes, we just left. Jordan explained that he was at Hocking Hill State Park with three of his teenage friends, Jaden Churches, Miranda Spencer, and A.J. Warren. Jordan claimed that while they walked the trails, a man came running past them and warned them not to continue on the path they were on because someone had gotten hurt. So the four teenagers simply turned around and left. Yeah, we were on top. And then some guy came up to us. I don't know who it was. It was an African-American guy. He had long dreads. And he came up to me. He said, don't go that way. And then I asked him why. And he said, a branch fell down and smashed some woman. And I said, a branch. He said, yeah, like a tree branch fell off. So we went down. And then we walked down the stairs. And then we just came back. And we went home. We were bored. We were bored. It's bored. Nothing really happened. Naturally, the investigators were skeptical of Jordan's version of events, and they knew he was leaving a whole lot out of the story. Jordan? Mm-hmm? I want you to be honest with me, okay? Yeah. Before we come in here, we've already got our answers. Mm-hmm. We ask a series of questions that we have answers to. Mm-hmm. All right? So this is the time to come clean and close. There's some allegations that they brought against you. What were they? Well, you was there. You confirmed that you was there. We knew that you was there. So there's more to this story. Tell us about the branch being up on top. Well, I didn't do anything. I just don't like snitching on people. That's the problem. This is the time. This is not about snitching. This is about telling the truth. And telling the truth gets you further than not telling the truth. We were, me and Jaden, walked all the way far down. Like, cleared to the end. Not far the metal bridges. This guy did say that to us. But we did end up going back down. But I skipped a part of what we did. We walked all the way down to the end of this. And Jaden kicked off a branch. Not a branch. It was a log. It was a big log. Like, probably just while I just kicked it, and it rolled off the cliff, and it made a loud bang, so we ran. And we ran into Miranda and AJ. They had no idea. We didn't tell them. That long? Yeah, it's that long. That long? Mm-hmm. He just kicked it. He didn't pick it up, push it or anything. He just kicked it. It took investigators less than 20 minutes to get Jordan to break and to get him talking about the log that killed Victoria Schaefer. Though, his account of how the log ended up rolling off the cliff didn't make much sense. He claimed that his friend Jaden had simply kicked it. But investigators knew that couldn't be possible. I don't know if he, I wasn't like paying attention to what he was doing, so I don't know if he intentionally kicked it or if he like stumbled on it. Did he pick it up first and carry it? No. He didn't pick it up at all, not that I saw. How'd he get on the other side of the tree? I had no idea. That log that you just pointed to me? Mm-hmm. Right? It was laying right here. There was a pile of them, right? Yeah. There was a tree, two of them. Remember those? There was a tree on this side, and it was in between the streets. It was laying like this, and then he kicked it. The evidence at the crime scene told investigators that the log had been moved before it dropped from the cliff. Its original location was several feet from the cliff's edge. There was simply no way that a single kick or even several kicks would have caused it to fall. sent a text to your girlfriend at the time. I mean yeah I got well I knew what happened but I didn't know what happened to cause that like completely what happened like I was there with my friends but I wasn't the one that did it and I know that it killed the woman when it fell down on her and I heard the loud bang and I saw Jayden run and I was running with Jayden. So why didn't you call 911? Why didn't you do anything? Because I was freaking out and I thought I was going to get in trouble for it. Okay. And I didn't want to get charged against me for like involuntary manslaughter or something. So you have researched this? No, I just, no, a lot. Not only was Jordan's story impossible, but investigators could tell he had already researched the criminal charges he might face if the truth came out. And that wasn't all. The investigators knew that Jordan and Jaden had made a secret pact to stay quiet about what had happened at the park. In other words, the murder they committed was supposed to stay between them. You and Jaden talked any more about this? Nope. You guys didn't make a pact and say, hey man, I'm never going to say anything. You got to keep this a secret. Well, yeah, we did say that. That's why I told you that story. But then after I realized the severity of it, I could get in a lot more trouble for his actions if I'm the one not doing anything. And I don't want that to happen. So I kind of texted the agent and was like, dude, something's going to happen. We're going to get caught. I said, I don't know what you want me to say, but I'm not getting in trouble for you. I said I won't tell them, but if they ask me, I'm not going to completely lie and get myself in trouble. And then he said, okay, I'm not really worried about it. As you might expect a teenager to do, Jordan put all the blame on his friend, insisting that Jaden was solely responsible for what had happened. He also claimed that Jaden seemed proud of what he had done. You could hook me up to a live peck to pass. I didn't kick it, I didn't throw it. All Jaden told me was I kicked Logos. Like, I would. I'd swear on everything. He didn't put the lie detector test on me, and I'll say the same exact thing. Because that's exactly what happened. Did Jaden say you did it? Yeah, Jaden says, Jaden's told me that he did it before. No, the girls said. Yeah, he said that in front of him. Okay, so the girls would say. He said, I already caught a body by the age of 16. So you weren't about it with this money. He said what? I already caught a body at the age of 16. I don't think it's funny. I think that's the only reason I want to tell you all this, because I think it's serious. It's very serious. Someone lost their life for someone being stupid and messing around. According to Jordan, Jaden had said, quote, I already caught a body at the age of 16. If that was true, investigators figured they might be dealing with a complete sociopath. But more on Jaden in a minute. As for Jordan, investigators already knew he had admitted to throwing the log. Not to them, but to another one of his friends. So, naturally, they wanted answers. If he hadn't touched the log, why tell someone he did? Jordan explained he was simply trying to impress a girl. Because apparently, bragging about murder is how you get pussy. Can we get some dads around here, or... Nah. But I was just saying that to her because I thought it was cool. But it's not after I realized the severity of it. And he looked cool to him. Charged was hurt. I know. But that's what I'm saying. If it comes down to it, I would literally take a lot of tech tests for this. Like, if you guys do not believe me, I had nothing to do with it. And I did not kick or touch that long. Why didn't you still get to say something? Because, I don't know, I was freaked out about it. Because I thought it was just all going to go away and everybody would have forgot about it. You're going to forget about a death? No, I just, I don't know. You ever see what a woman looks like with her head mashed open? No. Do you want to see it? No. Yeah, that's the thing. It's a irresponsible act. I know. Four kids without a mom, husband without a wife. Grow up. It's time to grow up right now. I know. If there's anything you got knocked towards, anything you held back, anything you don't want to tell us, maybe you guys were kicking the log together, you got to tell us right now. I did not kick that log with him. I swear on everything. Did you touch that log? Well, so I touched the log to move it out of the area. to move it out of the air. To move it, it was right in between these trees, and he pushed it out. And then I helped him push it out, but he kicked it down, and I didn't kick it. So I did touch the wall. So you didn't help him? No, I didn't know he was going to kick it off. I helped him pull it out, yeah. Once again, Jordan's story changed. He still insisted he wasn't the one who threw the log, but he finally admitted to moving it. But even with this admission, Jordan's story still didn't make much sense. truth? I am. I'm telling the truth. I didn't throw the log off. Yes, I am. I'm telling the truth. I did not throw that log off. He helped you? No, I did not. I did not throw the log off. It's impossible for him to pick up a six-foot boat. Well, I don't know. I didn't throw the log off with him. I swear on everything. Did you grab one hand? Did you grab the other hand? Nope. All I did was drag it. That's the only thing I did. There were several things about Jordan's story that were either implausible or impossible. First, there was the size and weight of the log. Six feet long, 75 pounds. It wasn't likely that one person could have thrown it alone. Especially a scrawny little juvenile shit like Jordan or Jaden. Second, just below the cliff where the log came from, there was another ledge. A protruding rock formation. For the log to clear that, it would have taken serious effort and force. The most likely scenario is that both Jordan and Jaden moved the log and threw it together. Just two teenage boys experimenting with gravity. Because that's the extent of their intellect. Miranda and AJ would tell you that I didn't throw it off too. It was Jayden. He threw the log off. You pulled it back and then you threw it off. Yeah, but I didn't know he was going to throw it off. What Miranda and AJ did watching? Yeah, but I didn't know he was going to throw it off. So every time we talk, we get a little bit different story. Now Miranda and AJ's there. Initially, Jordan told investigators that the girls he was with that day hadn't seen anything. But like every other part of his story, that turned out to be a lie. His friends, Miranda and AJ, had seen exactly what happened. And investigators questioned them both, starting with the 15-year-old, AJ Warren. What had to tell us about going to the park that night? It was me and Miranda and Jaden and Jordan. And we decided to go to the caves and the boys saw a log and were picking it up. And they were like, you know, they were going to start off. and they said not to do that because you don know what under there you don know if someone under there you know And so they dropped the log onto the ground like onto the cliff that we were on and it rolled back off And so we started walking away. A man started walking or was pacing and running. he said that a woman got hit with a large branch or log and he believes that he believes that she didn't make it that she was dead so you know we obviously were very you know shooken up about it and didn't know to do. We knew it was wrong, and we knew that whether it wasn't intentional, you know, they weren't trying to hurt somebody, and they weren't trying to kill somebody. Putting it mildly, AJ's version of events made a lot more sense than Jordan's. But one critical question remained. Who actually threw the log? Who touched the log now? Jordan picked it up, well, didn't pick it up, but he grabbed it from one end to make it stand up. And they were going to push it off. So then Jaden looked, and they dropped it on, not off the cliff, but onto the ground. And it rolled. It fell back off the cliff. So let me get this straight. Jordan's holding this wall on its end. Okay, he's picked it up. It's standing on the end, and he's holding it. You're stating that Jaden went over, looked over the edge to see if anybody was over there and stated that he couldn't see anybody. Is that right? Yes, sir. Okay. Now what happened? Jordan just... Jordan's still holding this wall? Yeah, he's still holding it. Okay. And so Jordan let go of the other end, not pushing it around. He's holding it? Yeah, he's holding it. Let's go. Let's go. not pushing it or not kicking it over the edge, but he lets go and it hits the ground. Like if we were further from the edge and he dropped it, I don't think it would have rolled off, but it was closer to the edge where he dropped it and it just rolled back off. Jordan lets go of it. It falls, goes back to the ground, and rolls off. Yes, sir. 100% positive. Yes. Absolutely, 100%. That is what happened. But that explanation didn't add up. It wasn't likely that simply releasing the log would have given it enough force to clear the ledge below. To complicate things further, the other witness, 19-year-old Miranda Spencer, gave investigators a similar story, but with the roles reversed. She claimed Jordan only looked over the edge to make sure no one was below, and it was Jaden who actually sent the log off the cliff. Jordan looks over the cliff and is like, there's nobody down there like a good dude. And then Jaden either kicks it off or pushes it off, I'm not sure, but he definitely, he didn't pick it up. So it's just like rolled off, basically. Jaden picked up the log. Picked it up. I don't think he, he didn't pick it up. But he's the one that pushed it off. Jaden pushed it off? Yes, Jaden pushed it off. Like AJ, Miranda was adamant about what she saw. But their accounts didn't match. And investigators wanted to know why. How about the log? How long was it? Who held the log? Who moved the log? Jaden moved the log. He moved the log. Jaden moved the log. Then what did Jordan do? Jaden, Jordan said that he, like, he looked over the ledge and said that there was nobody down there. So Jaden pushed it off because he didn't think he was going to hurt anybody. But Jaden rolled the log 100%. These conflicting accounts didn't make sense. AJ was certain that Jordan rolled the log. Miranda was just as sure it was Jaden. How could either of them be wrong about something like that? And if someone was lying, the question was, why? Your story and Miranda's have one major flaw in the city. You can't figure that out for the life of me. Why? I won't say what it is, but you just can't figure out for the life of me why there's one major difference here. I have no idea. Everything I told you is exactly what I remember from that day. As investigators tried to make sense of the conflicting statements from AJ and Miranda, they also had a decision to make. What should they do with Jordan? And what charges would he face? Am I going to get arrested? For what? I don't know. That's what I'm saying. I don't know if there's any charges that I can get for witnessing a murder. I know, but I wasn't the one that voluntarily did it. It wasn't my fault that it happened. What happens? You and him go rob a store. He shoots and heals a clerk. Well, I get in trouble for being with him. You get charged for murder at the CDC. So I'm going to get charged for involuntary manslaughter for murder? I consider just murder. So I'm going to get murdered from this? Same thing. Before investigators could move forward with any charges against Jordan, there was still one critical step left. They needed to talk to the other teenager, the one who had allegedly bragged about killing someone. They needed to question 16-year-old Jaden Churchess. logistics manager, all while bringing your vision to life. Shopify helps millions of business sell online. Build fast with templates and AI descriptions and photos, inventory and shipping. 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But this interview came with one key difference. Jayden's mother was also in the room. I've been sitting there for two hours. I'm going to go for all the rest of you. I'm trying to have you set up that seat. I'm trying to have you on your desk here for a minute. Hi, I'm Tammy. I was in a good mood when I got here. I sat in there for two hours. Yeah, we're sorry. You're in there. Are you kidding me? I've been sitting there for two hours waiting on you guys. Oh, we were busy. I know. I got to take work. I got to take that. He would have been here if I knew it was going to take two hours to talk to you. When Jaden's interview started, there was already a good bit of tension in the air. His mother was frustrated. She'd been waiting for hours before investigators were ready to speak with her and Jaden. And the tension only grew from there. You can't hear us, so we can record it or something? Well, everything we do is audio-play. Oh, and I can record it too then, right? Absolutely, yeah. Oh, good. About 10 minutes into the interview, and just after investigators read Jaden his Miranda rights, a school employee stepped into the room to bring Jaden some lunch. Jaden, they are out of chicken sandwiches. Would you like something else? No, just take it. Every time he eats lunch here, they're out of everything. After Jaden's mom made it clear she was ready to complain about literally everything, the investigators finally got around to asking Jaden some questions. What do you like doing? riding my bike right where Langsburg skate park the next place right beside the pool like going out to I can do anything I mean I like to hunt I like duck hunt that stuff but hiking I don't really like walking a lot so I just ride my bike a lot in the same time with my friends Who's your friends? Johnny, Cole, Garrett Mace, just a lot of football players. Interestingly, when Jaden was asked about his friends, he left out one important name. Jordan. Jordan? He's my friend. What's Jordan, though? I know a lot of other people. Jordan. Buckle. Buckle. Buckle. Buckle. Buckle. I mean, he's a great under me, and I hung out with him. Which I didn't know. We've been big around the bush. I'm just going to get straight to it. There's been some. There was an incident at Hocking Hill State Park. I know that you was there. Yes, I was there. Okay. Tell me about that day. We pulled up. We were about to go hike and go down and look around. And then some dude comes running back. and he's like, somebody just got hit with something. And we think she's dead. So we're like, what? And we turn around and we leave because we don't even want to go down there and see it or anything. And then once we're walking out, there's like ambulance going up and all this. And we just, the Miranda and AJ. The initial stories that both Jaden and Jordan gave investigators were nearly identical. When they were first asked what happened, neither of them mentioned the log being thrown from the cliff. At least, not until investigators confronted them with it directly. It's almost as if they had rehearsed what to say. Before we come in here, we already have all the answers. There might be one or two that we don't know. We've already talked to people. A lot of serious accusations have been brought against you. And this was the time to tell the truth, to help yourself, because right now it's really serious. Really, really serious. And you need to be honest because we know a lot more than what you think. And you need to talk to me, sir, in private because he's underage. He's underage and it sounds like you know exactly what happened, so maybe you should go tell me exactly what happened and then I will talk to him because I don't like you saying that you knew what happened Yes, ma'am. And... We do know what happened. Okay, then you know who did it and what happened, so... Yes. Good, then we'll go in the other room and you can tell me if he participated in this. This is not how this is going to work. It's not? No. I wonder if this mom's name is Karen. It should be. Your son did something that resulted in a death of a lady. No. Yes, ma'am. No. I can prove that beyond a shadow of a doubt. Then somebody ought to be proving it to me before they're saying something like that to him, because that is very upsetting to me. What we want to know, was this an accident? There's always two sides of your story. I'm not liking this. I don't like this one day one. I don't like it either. Neither does the family. Excuse me, I know that. I have felt very bad about that. That is sickening to me. And I have even said this is a horrible thing, but for you to sit here and say that he had something to do with this? I'm sorry. Jaden's mom became understandably distraught. She tried to step in and defend her son, but there wasn't much she could do except sit there and watch him take the heat. I want to know, was this an accident or was this something that you meant to do? Because that's a big difference. If this is an accident, were you trying to do this? I didn't do it. I was there. Okay. So tell me what happened, step by step. Like, basically what I was saying. When we walked up by the stairs, Jordan walks, like we were walking, and then there was a log, and he kicks it, and it starts to slide. So you're saying Jordan kicked it out? And then it slid, and then we left. Unsurprisingly, Jaden pointed the finger at Jordan, just like Jordan had done to him. He claimed Jordan had kicked the log, sending it over the edge of the cliff. So much for that secret pact they had made to keep this quiet. Isn't that right, Jaden? I know about your pact with Jordan. You guys already had this rehearsed. Did you touch the log? Because we've talked to Jordan. I grabbed the log. Okay, so you touched the log. I touched it, but I did not kick it off our throat. You know what happened to it? How did that smash the lead? He got kicked off the edge. Who kicked it? Jordan. Jordan kicked it? Yes. Are you sure? Yes. Once again, investigators were put in a difficult spot. Each suspect was blaming the other, and all they could do was keep pressing Jaden for the truth. Yeah, I did not kick it off. Did you turn it off? No, sir. I'm not trying to hide anything. I'm giving you the answers you're asking for. Truth or answers. Yes. Do you know what? You guys, I'm being very patient with this, but it sounds like you're trying to talk him into saying something that he's being honest with you. I'm trying to talk him into telling me the truth. But he just talked you about having me. That's not the truth. So you're trying to get him to say something that... I'm trying to get him to tell us the truth. That's what I'm trying to do. Not a trick. I don't understand. Not a trick. You have his phone, you have... We're just trying to get him to tell us what happened. Because at the end of the day, that lady lost her life. I know that. I'm very sad for that. I'm very sad for Tammy. I was sick to my stomach when I heard about this. And then to find out that he was there. The investigators kept pushing back, but having Jaden's mom in the room didn't make their job any easier. So should I arrest Jordan today for homicide? because that's what's going to happen. I said it with that story. We better do the light detector test first on Jordan, don't you think, before you arrest him for homicide? It doesn't matter what he says. You guys have to do it. Don't care. Just talk. Like, detective talk. You think I would let you arrest him? Like, Jordan's there, so don't let you arrest Jordan without a light detector test? And we don't have a choice, Miss. In the United States, there's a thing called probable cause. You know what? I don't have a choice. So you're going to have to just, you're just going to have to talk. I'm just going to have to get an attorney with a minimum wage, two jobs that I work. Because, you know what? We do have choices. But when you get the, when you get the, I know this lady died. When you get the lie detector test set up for him, then you'll just have to contact me. As for now, Jayden and I will be leaving. That's my correct. He's going to leave. Jaden's going to place him under arrest. No, he can't be. He's 16 years old. He did something that resulted in the death of Ms. Schaefer. Where are you thinking you're going to take him? Juvenile detention. No. That's how serious this is. Jaden remained adamant that he hadn't thrown the log. And every time investigators pushed him to admit otherwise, his mom stepped in. You've got to be completely honest. This is your life. I don't know. Ms. Schaefer's life is already over. I know this. We've got to make her life right. And I told you what happened. I told you who can't get off. You can notice that before Pellenwald does to a lady's head. And your head explodes. Are you going to show him a picture of that, too? I don't have a picture of it. Good. That's pretty... Do you want to see it? I'll show you what your son did. Excuse me? I'm asking. What, my son did? Yes, ma'am. There's witnesses to this. There's not witnesses. They're all saying each other did it. Until you have some pretty good stuff, then I don't want to believe any of that. I don't want to see some lady's head splattered. I don't want anybody to be injured. So who do you think should be accountable for this? Whoever did it. Whoever was responsible for making the law go over the cliff. Exactly. I would agree with that 100%. Yes. You know, whether the kids were playing, whether it was, I'm sure they didn't do it on purpose. Because they were playing. If they were playing. If this was an accident. I'm sure they were just going to say, I want to kill some lady, let's throw a lull on her head. I mean, who does that? Jayden's mom and the investigators continued to butt heads. But in the end, it was a losing battle for both sides. Jaden's mom couldn't stop her son from being arrested and investigators couldn't get him to admit he had thrown the log eventually Jaden and his mom were informed that a judge had already signed off on Jaden's arrest he was going to jail and there was nothing anyone could do to stop it You know what that's doing to me? That's hitting me in the head with a lung? You cannot do that. How long would you say something like that? Because you can't take him to jail. There's bad people there. Well, there's not good people in jail. There's bad people there. Why did you say he's hitting the lung in the head? Because you're trying to take him away for something that you can't take him. Again this is not me This is the prosecutor office This is the actual prosecutor and the juvenile court judge This is out of my hands You just going to take him out of here with him right now through this school Yeah How's that make you feel? It hasn't made me feel very good at all since the beginning of this, since September 2nd at 620 when I got that phone call and I seen that lady. It has not made me feel good at all. This doesn't make me feel good. Do you know what? I have raised this boy for 17 years by myself and this does not make me feel good. Why would you take him out of his school like this in front of these people? He's never been away from you. You can't just take him down there. Yes, ma'am, we can. So, stay in the room, please. No, you guys. You're going to have a court date. You guys, please don't need him. Jayden was officially placed under arrest. And when the handcuffs came out, his mom all but lost it. You guys go pay handcuffs or something on him. Oh, my gosh. What a great way to start off your life when you're 17. Can't you just, like, walk him out there? He's not a criminal. Ms. Schaefer is 46 years old. Pardon me? Ms. Schaefer is 46 years old. I know how old she is. I've read. What are you telling me that for? You're saying he's 17. I'm telling you Ms. Schaefer is 46 years old. You know, I feel really bad for this lady that's gone and her family. This is not good to do to our family. Jaden had the benefit of having his mom in the room during his interview, while Jordan had to face investigators on his own. Though Jordan did get to call his mother, and the difference between the two parents couldn't have been more stark. Were you a part of it, Jordan? I didn't, like, push it off, but I moved the log with him. I pulled it out. I didn't know he was going to kick it off, though. But a woman died. Why did you not tell Chris and I this? Because I freaked out, Mom. I freaked out. It doesn't matter. I taught you to do right, Jordan. A woman lost her life and you knew it. Always coming first is what you do. So I want to ask him for his DNA sample. It's just a swab of the mouth. Yes, yes. I mean, if he's in the wrong, he knows that I've taught my kids that they take the punishment. Okay, so we have your permission to take that swamp? You have my permission to take his, yes. Okay. On one hand, Jaden's mom was ready to defend her son no matter what he may have done. Jordan's mom, however, seemed ready to hand Jordan over to the police on a silver platter. I'm not a parent, so I'll reserve my judgment on this one. and you guys don't like it when I judge anyway, so you judge for yourselves. Who handled it better? Who is the better parent in this situation? I know you'll have your own thoughts. Leave them in the comments. After Jayden was arrested, investigators took Jordan back to Hocking Hill State Park. Once there, they walked him through his version of what happened the day Victoria Schaefer was killed. though much of his story still didn't add up. That's why I pounced. I knew it bounced, but I didn't know why, so that's why I thought he threw it. But he did say, I'm going to throw it. After this happened, I kind of just realized the severity of it and how someone lost her life. Like, how would I feel if that would happen to my mom when she was taking pictures of me or something, from my singing pictures? That's not fair to them to not know the answer to it, and that's why I feel bad. During this walkthrough, Jordan claimed he felt bad about what happened. But let's be honest. It was a little late for that. If he really felt bad, he would have come forward. Instead, he made a pact with Jaden to keep the murder quiet and even bragged about it later to impress a girl he liked. Not exactly the behavior of someone with a guilty conscience. Not exactly the behavior of someone with a conscience, period. So what do you think should happen to you? Well, I'm hoping that I don't see anything too extreme, but I know that I'm probably going to get charged for being a witness. Well, being a witness, you're not saying anything about it. Well, being a witness, you don't get charged for being a witness. Yeah, but you get charged if you did something or if you lied about it. That's what gets you in trouble. I haven't lied about anything so far. Jordan claimed he hadn't lied about anything so far. In reality, he'd lied about nearly everything, right up until investigators called him out. At first, he left out the log entirely. Then he claimed Miranda and AJ hadn't seen what happened. After that, he insisted he never touch the log at all. None of this was true. All of this begged a question. What else was Jordan lying about? Our victim was down here with her head mashed in. Okay? So it's impossible for that log to roll off until we landed here. It had to have trajectory and have force some kind of force to get out this 10 foot where she was that so right now This is the time. I'm trying to be cooperative. I understand. I'm trying to be cooperative with me I want I need the truth right now. I'm trying to tell you I'm trying to think so if you're standing there and I'm holding this log That he was thrown out Whoo where she was at He is 100% right So this is the point in time where you tell us either you seem to do it but we both did it, or it was more than two of you. But whatever happened needs to come out now, because we can't help you if we don't have it. I did not do it, and Miranda and AJ had nothing to do with it. One of the strangest parts of this case was how all four teenagers described the log as simply rolling off the cliff and not being thrown. But that didn't make sense. For the log to land where it did, it would have taken considerable force. the reality was someone or multiple people had to have thrown it and none of the teenagers could explain that inconsistency the only thing that made sense was that both jordan and jayden picked up the log together and flung it off the cliff i didn't help him do it i don't remember what he did to get it off i just know jayden did it i don't know you remember everything i don't You cannot remember that specific detail. Yes, that's the only thing that I've had trouble remembering the whole time. That's the only thing. Be in my shoes right now, okay? You can remember everything, but you can't remember that specific detail, so I'm sitting here thinking, man. Because it happened. It happened so fast. It happened so fast, I turned around. He said, I'm going to throw it off. I turned back around, and it was already going down. Another unanswered question was, why the two female witnesses pointed fingers at different people? Miranda said Jaden threw the log. AJ claimed it was Jordan. Miranda even went as far as saying Jordan never touched the log at all, which made no sense, considering Jordan himself admitted that he helped move it. Jordan has admitted the log. Really? Jordan didn't move the log? He admitted to me. But... Why would he admit to me that he moved the log? I'm telling you that Jordan, Jayden, was the one that moved the log. Like, that's what I remember. That's what I'm trying to tell you. Like, me and Jordan have no connections. Like, I don't like Jordan at all. Miranda, I took Jordan to the scene. We've done a walkthrough. I'm just telling you what I remember. He was telling us how he moved the log, where he was standing. I'm not lying. I'm telling you what I remember. And if what I remember is wrong, then I can't help that. But I'm trying to tell you as much as I know. I can't help that. Investigators later suspected that Miranda was lying to protect herself because of a prior romantic relationship she had with Jordan. When they dated, Jordan may not have reached Ohio's age of consent, which was 16, by the way. Yeah, Ohio sucks. It's possible Miranda did not want to implicate Jordan, fearing he might turn around and expose her. She may have been trying to avoid facing statutory rape charges. Do you have any relationships with the police? Jordan. Jordan? Yeah. Do you understand that we're not here about you having sex with Jordan? Yes, I'm talking about you having sex with Jordan. Miranda admitted she'd been in a relationship with Jordan, but denied ever having sex with him. Nonetheless, Miranda was never charged with any form of sexual assault. Instead, she was charged with obstruction for lying during the investigation of Victoria Schaefer's murder. Miranda Spencer of Nelsonville received a suspended 90-day sentence. She pled guilty to obstructing official business. In court, Miranda changed her story. Instead of blaming Jaden, she claimed she couldn't remember who touched the log or which of the boys had sent it over the cliff. As for Jaden and Jordan, both were indicted on charges of murder, involuntary manslaughter, and reckless homicide. Despite being just 16, both were charged as adults, meaning they were now facing the full weight of the criminal justice system. They ended up both taking plea deals where they would plead only to involuntary manslaughter in exchange for having the other charges, murder and reckless homicide, dropped. 17-year-old Jordan Buckley walked into court with his family and pled guilty to involuntary manslaughter. How do you plead? I plead guilty. Buckley then stood up, turned and addressed Victoria's family, including her husband Fritz. I understand that my actions that they ask cause your things life to change. And my hope from all of this is to use this trauma to learn and live the rest of my life in a way that will honor the Shakers. Both teens took plea deals. In exchange, the murder and homicide charges were dropped, and their cases were sent back to juvenile court. At their sentencing hearings, both Jaden and Jordan offered weak apologies to Victoria's family. First, I wanted to apologize to Ms. Schaefer's family. I know that no matter what I say, nothing will bring your loved one back. I know what I did was wrong. I hope that you know I never intended to hurt anyone that day at Hockenville. However, I realize now that my actions can have unintended consequences. I want to let you know that I think about this decision for the rest of my life. I have learned from my wrongful actions and will take this opportunity to become a better person and hopefully use this experience to help others. At the sentencing, Victoria's family members took turns speaking. Her younger sister was first to address the court. I'm confronted daily by ways in which my sister is missing. I'm sub-mindedly thinking of texting her when she crosses my mind. I'm missing her encouragement when I need it most. And the guidance that only an older sister can provide. I've been catching glimpses of her face in my own reflection. I believe that is why over one year later, I'm not only still heartbroken over the loss of someone so critically important in my life, but I'm angry that the individuals responsible did not immediately come forward. In fact, hiding the secret among them for over a month until someone else turned them in. Next to speak and deliver a truly heartbreaking impact statement was Victoria's husband. Victoria's death was so tragic, so devastating, and so senseless, it's unimaginable. And whatever I say here today won't come even close to describing how painful this has been for me and for my family. The night before she died, we were up late. She was editing photos. It was probably after 1 a.m. She didn't have to get up early. The next day was Labor Day. She was looking forward to going to Old Man's Cave and doing the photo shoot with her senior reps. We were lying in bed and she was in my arms. She told me something she never told me before. She said the happiest part of her day was at the end of the night and she was in my arms. She told me she loved me and couldn't wait to spend the rest of her life with me. I loved her more at that moment than ever before. And the next night she was gone. The loss Victoria's family endured was unimaginable. But despite their grief, they agreed to the plea deals that had been offered to Jaden and Jordan. I want to first clarify how we came to this agreement. Because it was very, very difficult. We said we'd think about it for a few days. My children are very compassionate. And what ultimately helped us make the decision to offer this one deal was that Victoria was a very compassionate person. We all felt that she would have wanted to give them a second chance. In the end, it was the compassion Victoria had instilled in those around her that likely spared Jaden and Jordan from a lifetime behind bars. During sentencing, Victoria's daughter read an impact statement written by Victoria's mother. In it, Jaden and Jordan were offered only one path to redemption. I need to know that you will do your very best to turn your life around. I need to know that when you are released from the sentence, you will have become a man who will make a contribution to the society, not just take from it. This is an early chapter in your book of life. I sincerely pray for you that Victoria's loss will not be in vain. Let this tragic circumstance catapult you to even greater goals that you can imagine today, that you will dig in and dig deep to meet the challenge of becoming a great man, a man who will bring honor to Victoria to make up in some way for one you so carelessly have taken from all of us. Let the story of your life proclaim to all that you understood the gravity of your actions and that you did all in your power to be a credit to society. Only that will satisfy me. The forgiveness and the compassion that Victoria's family showed in the court was truly remarkable. Far more than they would have gotten from me, that's for sure. The guilty pleas were entered and the impact statements were made. All that was left was for a judge to deliver a sentence. The pain that you heard from them, indescribable. I can't, I get angry listening to it, so I don't know if I could be as forgiving as they are. Do you understand? Yes, sir. Do you understand that you took a mother of children your age, your same age, that you took their mother? Do you understand that? Yes, sir. a wife, sister, and that's a void that can never be filled for them. Now you're going to have some time to sit in DYS. Do you understand that, right? Yes, sir. But you understand you're getting a second chance here now because they are forgiving. Do you understand that, correct? Yes, sir. I know. You understand. And you understand that that's not an option to Mrs. Schaefer back, correct? Yes. You're getting a second chance because she did not get it. In the end, both Jordan Buckley and Jaden Churchess were sentenced to just three years in juvenile detention. A slap on the wrist, if there ever was one. As for the biggest question of all, who actually threw the log? The truth is, no one seems to know. Investigators couldn't prove it either way, and neither Jaden nor Jordan ever admitted to it in court. Maybe Jaden did it. Maybe Jordan did it. Maybe they both did. Or maybe that detail doesn't matter as much as we think. Because at the end of the day, both teenagers were legally responsible. Both of them made a choice to move, shove, kick, roll, or throw a 75-pound log off a cliff. A log that came crashing down with enough force to shatter a skull and take Victoria Schaefer's life in an instant. and both were held accountable in a way that reflected the wishes of Victoria's family. So, what else is there to do? The conclusion of this case doesn't come with a whole lot of satisfaction, that's for sure. It's messy, but usually murder is messy. There are still unanswered questions, and the whole thing feels unfinished. but sometimes that's the only justice there is and sometimes you know that's just life I can't believe this is our 13th year. It's absolutely madness. I did not think this is how my life was going to go. Let's put it that way. Anyway, thank you so much for being here. Thank you so much for being a fan, a listener, supporter, whatever. Any little thing you guys do, we appreciate it. promise you, even if it's just hitting a like button on a video or leaving a comment. It's all very much appreciated. Thank you so much for being here. I hope 2026 is a wonderful year for all of you. Some people still want to drink at the end of the day, but just not the alcohol part. That's where Good Feels fits in. Good Feels makes THC-infused cannabis seltzers designed to be light, consistent, and easy to enjoy. No hangover, no heaviness, just a calm, lifted feeling that doesn't take over your night. They're made with natural ingredients and formulated to feel balanced, whether you're relaxing at home or out with friends. It's a simple alternative if alcohol isn't doing you any favors anymore. And right now, you can get 20% off at shop.getgoodfeels.com with promo code SWORD. 21 and over only, please. That's shop.getgoodfeels.com and use promo code SWORD for 20% off.