My Husband Has Been Living a Double Life

I found out my husband at 41 years is in a relationship with another woman and since soon I have found out it's been a lifetime of infidelity and he's an ordained pastor. We've been in the pastorate so this has happened all during that time. I'm so so sorry. What's up? What's going on? This is John with the Dr. John Deloni show taking your calls. Real people going through real challenges all over the planet. Pull up a seat and we'll figure out what's the next right move for your marriage, your dating life, your kids, your mental and emotional health, whatever you got going on. I'll sit with you and we'll figure out what's the next right move. All right, let's talk about your marriage. Right now we have February and October weekends on sale for the money in marriage getaways. The best marriage retreat on the planet. Tickets start at $749 a couple. Get yours at ramsysolutions.com slash getaway. All right, let's go to Corpus Christi Texas and talk to Lynn. What up, Lynn? Hello. How are we doing? Not so good. Not so good. Well, I'm glad that you called. How can I help? Take a breath. Take a breath. You're good. Yeah. You're good. It's been a rough morning. Six weeks ago yesterday, I found out my husband at 41 years is in a relationship with another woman. And since then, I have found out it's been a lifetime of infidelities. Another thing he's surrendered to the ministry in 2001. He's an ordained pastor. We've been at the pastorate or the mission field. So this has happened all during that time. We have five grown children and 17 grandchildren. Holy smokes. And we're devastated. We don't know this person. I don't even begin to know how to process this. Write this second you don't. This isn't the time for the forensic interview on how the house burned down. You're sitting in ash right now. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And you're married to a man that lied to his congregation, who lied to his people, who took advantage of people in his care, took advantage of you, your kids, everything. Yeah. Yeah. I'm so, so sorry. Thank you. I have some ideas on what's the next right move for you, but I don't want to go to that yet. I just want to sit here for a second. Tell me about what's like, not your kids and not the church. Tell me about what's going on inside your chest right now. Well, I have waves. I wish I was a crying dude. Listen, Lynn, I would think something was wrong with you if you weren't crying. I don't even know how you're talking to me right now. It's okay. I have moments where I'm better, but it's just waves of just mournful crying. Yeah. Your life has been a lie, right? Yes. Yes. Mournful crying is right. He was my kid's hero, my grandkids hero. That's how he presented himself. That's how we thought of it. There's a pretty common, so you've got the grief that I don't know this person, right? Right. That's a deep and profound grief. You also have the grief of shame, right? We presented a united front for two decades plus, and it was all a lie. By the way, your husband didn't surrender to the ministry. Your husband's worked and gained a job. He didn't surrender to nothing. Yep. Okay. And this is a very common moment for people in your situation. One of two profoundly grief-filled things. This is almost as overwhelming, if not as overwhelming. Is either A, you've had sneaking suspicions for years, and you went along with it, or you had no idea. Either way, not only did you lose trust in him, but you lost trust in you. Yeah. And that's terrifying, right? Yes. Like it's rageful and angry at him, but it's terrifying to realize. The ground I've been walking on hasn't been real. So if I can ask you honestly, has there been something in your gut for years? Or is this just a complete blindside? Well, this last thing was a blindside, but, well, for the last year, I felt something. But the years prior, I said that opposite. This last year, I've known something and confronted him and asked him, and frankly, I began watching your show this summer. And there are things that you say that's about going to a chiropractor, and things that are out of line. You have a way of lining it up. And I asked him, and it became where it was. What he told me was he was having a crisis of belief, because I asked him if there was someone else. And I guess that shocked him. But the other was I was completely blindsided. That this has been going on for 20 plus years? Right. I didn't know that. And that's scary, right? Yeah. This is your own house. Right. Yeah, this is every bit a death. And if you don't grieve it as seriously as a death, it will haunt you, okay? Okay. The marriage you had is over. The life you had is over. Well, he went to a men's conference. Could care less. Could care less. He's saying that he's the man I always wanted. He's not. And you know this. Right. He deceived you and conned you in a church community for two plus decades. Yes. Okay? Mm-hmm. Now, I'm not saying you have to leave him. I'm not saying that y'all don't choose to rebuild your house. What I am telling you is you, my new friend Lynn, you are in the driver's seat now. No, my kids had to rescue me. Good. It got violent. He left barrisas on me. Oh, he hit you? He grabbed my arm and was pushing me off the stairs. And because I was trying to leave in the car. So my kids that live one with three hours from me and one was two hours and they got there and they rescued me out of there. And I'm now with my, I'm living with my daughter and I haven't seen him since then. Are you going to file police charges on him? I called. I'm in another city and I called. And they said that in the state of Texas, you have to, you have to show up. You have to be there. The police have to take the pictures of the barrisas. And so that I was going to be there that following Friday to get the rest of my things because my kids helped me pack things. And he was, he was really crazy that evening. And, and when I went back, I was going to, and I didn't, I was, I was in prison ministry. I ran a prison ministry for like 12 years. And I know what, you know, bad abuse looks like. And I just, I didn't want to waste their time, you know, because I know they see such horrible things. So I just didn't. And then listen to me abuse is abuse is abuse. Just because you had bruises and not broken bones doesn't mean what happened to you. It wasn't an act of profound terrifying violence. Just because you were one of the fortunate ones that had kids that showed up and intervened on your behalf. Doesn't mean what happened to you wasn't a crime. And because you're in the driver's seat, I want you to take ownership. You don't have to call the police. Okay. I don't want that to be another thing you feel guilty about. You get to decide what happens next. And so when I say you're in the driver's seat, I'm hoping that you, you have been a victim for a long, long, long time. Okay. And whether he has ever put his hands on you before in the past, that nuclear reactor underneath his skin has always been there. And you've felt it and you've known it. Yeah. Yes. And you've always known I need to be quiet right now. Or daddy just needs to go let off some steam. You've been saying those things for years, right? Okay. And so when I say you're in the driver's seat now, you have been a victim for a long, long time. You have been a victim. And as of today, you decide what happens next. Okay. And you decided to stay with your kids. Great. Yeah. You decided to call them and you've got amazing children who came and rescued you. They are finding out in real time that their dad has a scumbag. Right. Right. And that's going to be hard for them to process. And that is not yours to protect them from their adults. Right. You get to decide to let them love you and give you a place to stay for a season. You get to decide to call an attorney. You get to decide to have an attorney reach out to him and say he has 24 hours to vacate your home. He gets to go find a place to live or not. But I want you, this is hard because you haven't done this ever. I want you to begin making I am going to statements or I will statements. Okay. And this is the way the side walk, the concrete will materialize under your feet. Okay. Okay. This is about you regaining strength and autonomy. You can't do this by yourself, but you've got kids that will support you. You've got people that will love you and walk alongside you. Yes. Okay. And so when the day comes, it might be today, it might be tomorrow. I am going to get my things from my home. Then you're going to call a police escort and you're going to let them know. I discovered a 20 plus year affair with my husband. He was abusive to me. I'm older. I need a police escort so I can go into my home and get my things. And the police will show up with you and walk in. And my buddies who are police officers, fewer things do they love than escorting a woman back into her own house. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. I've done that. I've gone. I've gotten the rest of my things. I didn't do the police thing, but he had a fishing trip scheduled that weekend. And he's in a remorseful state right now. And so... No, he's not. He's in a, I got my ass caught state. Okay. He is in a, I'm going to lose my job, my house, my kids, my grandkids, my money. I'm going to lose everything state. That is not a state of remorse. Okay. That is a state of caught red handed. Yeah. And he's about to be facing a woman who is not going to take it anymore. Okay. And so your next right move is not to make sense of your marriage. Your next right move in this order, safety, your four walls, which are, do you have a place to stay? Do you have clothing? Do you have transportation? Do you have water and electricity, right? Food. Yes. Food. The next step is at least half of that home equity of the retirement plan of the money in that checking account is yours. Okay. And an attorney can reach out to him to finalize that. You can reach out to finalize that. But it's game on now. And if what you're doing is your house burned to the ground, you can't sleep there anymore because it's burned down. Right. Right? So I'm going to find a place to stay. Then I'm going to talk to the insurance company. Then I'm going to decide where I want to live here. Then I'm going to decide to get with an architect and rebuild this house. Then I got that's the order we're going to go in here because the man you were married to doesn't care about your safety emotionally or physically. Right. And so that's your job now. Okay. He doesn't care about you financially. That's your job now. And then we'll get to the, do I want to rebuild this thing and you get to decide what must be true because he violated the safety and trust of your marriage. Right. You get to decide to bring all of this to the church leadership? Yeah. Yeah. He blew up your home? Yeah. In the homes of your kids? Right. And Christmas is going to look different and Thanksgiving is going to look different? Graduations are going to look different? The picture you had in your head of the next 15 or 20 years is all going to look different. 30 years, 40 years. And right now is not the time for talking about getting back together and healing the marriage with an abusive serial cheater. It's time for you to find safety and to exhale and begin practicing the statements. I will. I am going to. I want. I want. If you think of nothing else from what I talked to you about, remember this sentence. I get to choose what happens next. I get to choose. I'm so sorry this happened to you. I'm heartbroken for you. I'm heartbroken that his church secretary played along. I'm confident other people are not building. I'm sick over all of it. All the hurt families in that congregation when this all comes out and it will all come out. All of the aftermath of a person who thought the rules didn't apply to them. Rules of integrity, honor, dignity, truth. God, love, fidelity, all of it. Safety. Man. Just know there's millions of us around the world disgusted and heartbroken with you, Len. Lean on your kids during the season. Go get a counselor today. And when the time comes, get a good lawyer. And we'll be thinking about you. Phew, we come back. A man asks how to save his marriage after lying to his wife about his past pornography use and so much more. For anyone who's ever been hunting or fishing with me or who's come over to my house for dinner, they know that I love Montana Knife Company Knives. If you listen to this show, you know that my son and I are big hunters and big fishermen. 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Dutch.com slash Deloni and use code DELONI. Let's go to Gainesville, Florida and talk to MA DoubleT. What's up Matt? Hey Dr. John, thanks for taking my call. What's up brother? How we doing? I've had better, better years, better months, that's for sure. Well thanks for coming. Thanks for pulling up a seat brother. What's up? Thank you. So basically I'm in fresh new marriage and I am 42. 42. All right, first marriage? Second. Second marriage. Okay, cool. So basically I was hiding a pornography addiction from my wife and she found out about it and it's pretty much blasted my entire marriage into the universe and I'm just trying to regroup and figure out what to do next. Tell me about your first marriage. It was when I was in my early 20s, basically like a high school friend I grew up with and we were in a relationship for several years. We had a kid together and kind of got married in that aspect and we just kind of, we weren't really compatible with each other and it kind of just drifted apart and fell apart. When you say you weren't really compatible with each other, what does that mean? What I hear there is neither of y'all wanted to put the work in that would bring y'all together, which is you're allowed to do that, you're adults, but tell me what that meant. I think we kind of just probably weren't really too serious about being married. Very good, cool. Okay. And I learned later on in my life that you shouldn't try to force something like that on yourself or someone else really just because you have a child together. And then we just kind of, the older we got we kind of grew into different people. Okay, all right. So tell me about how you met this new woman. Just through mutual friends, I was in a relationship and she was not when we first met. And we just kind of, there was always an attraction there and we all kind of felt the same kind of vibes from each other. And then I actually was ending my other relationship and her and I were started talking to each other and getting kind of serious. Kind of just went from there and it grew over a year and a year and a half. And then I proposed to her and we got married this year and bought a house and kind of moved in together and started our life. And the whole time we were doing that together, I was hiding things from my past from her. Like what? And like just the fact that I wasn't really faithful in my last relationship. Well, you met your wife while you were with somebody else, right? Yeah, the relationship was deteriorated beyond saving at that point and I was just finding an exit. So I mean, emotionally I was already checked out, but yes, I was still in a relationship with that person. Okay. Have you and your new wife talked about that? How you all met while you were with somebody else? Yeah, she knew what the fact was. I mean, I didn't share every gory detail with her, but she knew kind of my situation. Okay. Because often when somebody's with somebody, whether they're married to somebody or they are dating somebody and they meet the person who they get married to, that person always has a lingering dot, dot, dot. Yeah, sure. Right? Like if they found me while they were with somebody, could they find somebody else while they're with me? Right. I mean, thanks. Have you all talked about that explicitly? We did talk about it a few times. Like I said, I didn't get into the details on how it ended there, but she definitely always kind of checked out at that point. What else did you hide? That girl that you were dating before you met your wife, did you cheat on her a lot? I cheated on her a couple of times with the same person. Okay. A person from my past. All right. What else have you kept from your wife? Um, I basically just, I'm realizing now that I, like I lie about things, whether they're trivial or not. And I'm, I think deep down I'm just ashamed of the kind of person that I was, or maybe I still am. Yeah. Because often when somebody is your wife saying now you'll been married less than a year, right? Or a year? It's been less than a year. And she found pornography. How? Like was it on the computer or something? Well, it started, she, she let me know right out of the gate. She's a, she's a great person. She let me know right out of the gate that she doesn't like to be lied to and she doesn't respect the kind of person that, you know, has any kind of like weird addictions like that. Um, and asked me bluntly multiple times if it was ever going to be a problem or if I had any issues. And I told her no right to her face. I looked her in her eyes and I told her no. Okay. And that was not the truth. Okay. And so you're a guy that, that fudges around the edges. You exaggerate things. You don't tell the truth about just dumb stuff, right? And at the same time you've got this woman that you're falling for who's saying, I do not do life with liars. Right. And so that already, there's a wedge there, right? Sure. And then you add this on top of it. Cause I hear a lot like couples are when a wife discovers their husband's looking at pornography, etc. That it's a shock. It's a surprise. It feels like infidelity, whatever they, they feel. But for her to say, I don't want to be married anymore or I don't think you're my guy anymore tells me there's a, there's an ecosystem that's bigger than just that one thing. Sure. And she, she asked me about my past and I did, I did divulge some of the information about me having infidelities in my, in my last relationship. But I didn't, I didn't divulge the full thing. And I'm, I'm at a loss at even why I would try to do that because she definitely does not deserve it. Yeah, but you don't think you don't think you deserve her? Yeah. Yeah, I don't think I do. And if you can't look yourself in the mirror and not be okay with things you've done in the past, but be okay with the guy who has learned and grown from those, that, that those stupid mistakes, the mistakes that violated your own values. Like if you can't look yourself in the mirror and say, I've learned, I'm not that guy anymore and I can hold my head high moving forward. Then you can't connect with somebody else and create a life together. Because when you look yourself in the mirror, you still, you still don't even like, like make an eye contact with you, right? Right. Yeah. So you can't expect somebody else to make eye contact with you. Yeah, I feel like I'm, I'm really trying to do that now. I'm, I'm working on that and I'm, I'm trying to improve myself and improve my life. And she did, she is not, I don't think she's ready to leave yet. But I'm going to have to do like a drastic change and I really want to. Here's the change that has to happen. Number one, you have to sit down with her and say, okay, the marriage we had, I want, I want to put an end to it and I want to start a new one. Right. And this is a marriage where I'm going to be a guy who holds my head up and takes my past indiscretions head on. I go right through them. I was not the guy that I am proud to be and I want to be a man that you can anchor into. Yeah. And that means you're going to have to literally sit across the table from her with open hands and say, as of today, I will never, ever, ever lie again to you. And I need you to know I struggle with liking me. And that's it. I, I, I'm, but I'm making a full commitment. But I feel like there's parts of me that I got to hide even from myself. Yeah. And so any question, anytime, however much I think it's going to hurt you or you're not going to want to know the answer to it, I'm going to commit to honesty. And then you're going to have to do the next, like it's, it's, it's kind of like, I'm going to go to the doctor and I am going to be honest about my weight. I got to lose some weight, right? I'm going to be honest about it. And then I'm going to get all my blood work done. I'm going to get a plan and then the real work will begin. There's an act of courage and bravery going to the doctor, but the real work is every single day. I'm going to choose to not eat that thing. I'm going to choose to go for a walk even when I'm tired. I'm going to choose to exercise even though I feel like it. And you're going to have to then have the proof and the pudding. And so you have to look her in the eye and say, I've given you reason to not trust me. And so I know I'm in a lifelong, I am in a new path where I'm going to have to earn your trust back. And we've had, we've had a similar discussion multiple times. She usually leads because I'm, I struggle with communicating my feelings. Okay. That has, that has to end. Yeah. You, you, you can't get drugged behind her. Here's the word. I'm going to give you the words. Okay. You ready? Yeah. I want you to create a path back to trust. And I'm going to commit to following that path. This might be as simple as, and by the way, this isn't just about past sexual indiscretions in pornography. This is going to bleed over into how you spend money. This is going to bleed over into your calendar where you go. Yeah. And so you saying every Sunday night at seven o'clock or eight o'clock, I want us to have a budget meeting, a calendar meeting. And I, and I want you to smile. I want you to say, and any questions you have about my past or the last week, we're going to do it. We're going to do this for six months. Okay. You take the lead. And that might also mean I don't want internet in the house for the, for the next six months. Or we can have internet, but I'm not going to be on it. Yeah. I've put, I've put things in place to make sure and also daily, you know, affirmations for myself to realize, to make sure I don't ever live that kind of life again. And I'm definitely committed to that. But listen, hear what I'm saying, brother. I, I, I'm, I'm like, you are, you're white knuckling. Are you in the military? No. Do you have a past in the military? I associate with a lot of military people. Okay. I've never been in your language is very similar. Okay. And here's where it's, there's a nobility to I'm going to white knuckle even harder. Right. And I want to tell you your path is the opposite. It's a dropping your shoulders. Your path forward will take discipline. No question. It will take a, a, some days will be a force of will to knock it on the computer. That's true. That's with any addiction. Right. But your path forward for the first freaking time is allowing yourself to finally be seen and known. Because pornography was serving a role in your life. Yep. And this sounds crazy. I don't want to look at pornography as the quote unquote problem. The problem beneath that is you don't like being in your own skin. That's true. That is the point of connection with your new wife. And I want you to begin doing the things not to knock on the computer. And I want you to begin doing the things not to not look at pornography. I don't want you doing that, but beneath that, I want you to do the things that you will begin to regain confidence and the, and create character from the inside out. And it happens in little ways. I'll make my bed every day. When my alarm clock goes off, I will get up within three minutes of it going off. I will make coffee for me and my wife and I will know her coffee order and I'll make it. Here's the person you need to begin to develop trust with first. You. You don't trust you. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, I haven't in a long time. You're going to be a guy that, walk into a church for the first time in 20 years. I'm not going to miss that. I'm going to have a group of guys that I go hang out with once a week. I'm going to keep track of my spending. I'm going to be a person that she can anchor into. And even the way you're describing, trying to gain back her good graces is you're going to anchor into her and let her drag you around. And she's going to get tired of dragging you around. Yeah, I think she already is. She is. I don't want to do it anymore. Or let me put it this way. She doesn't want to be your mother. She wants to be your wife. Correct. And so you say, I'm not going to be your husband. I'm not going to be your kid anymore. If you want to be a real gangster, you go, I'm going to hook you up. I'll hook you up with three months free with better help. Go sit with a therapist and figure out what is happened over the course of your life that makes you not like you so much. Yeah. It can be less about daily affirmations for you, but every morning you wake up and you write her go go to Walgreens tonight and get a stack of 50 cards. And every day write her one thing that you love about her. Partly because of the note will be good for her to read. But more importantly, I want you to commit to a thing for 50 days for 60 days and stick to it. Okay. This is a big day for you, brother. I'm glad that you called. Hang on the line. I'm going to hook you up with better help and I'll hook you up with my book, Building a Non-Anxious Life. I want you to read that book because that book is ultimately about finding peace in your house. I'm going to send it to you for free. Be my gift, brother. Thanks, man, dude. I'm proud of you for getting to this point. And now we're going to swipe the debt clean one year in and say it's time to build a new marriage. You're about to have a new husband, one who never deviates from the truth ever. And not only in my words, but I'm going to be a person of integrity and character in all facets of my life. And I'm going to have to practice getting there because I've never done it. Proud of you, brother. Day one. Game on. Thanks for the call, man. Whew, we come back. A man asks how to combat the shame he feels about being a first-time father. This time of year, we're giving our time, our money, and sometimes without meaning to, we're giving away something way more personal, our data. That's why I recommend Delete Me. I like a good deal as much as the next guy, but I want you to remember that every email click, every newsletter you sign up for, every time you put your personal information on the Internet, it's another chance that somebody else behind the scenes is going to get your personal information. And your personal information doesn't just stay there. Shady data brokers grab it, bundle it, and they sell it, like your name, your phone number, your address, where your kids go to school, all of this stuff just floating around out there in the digital wilderness. That's how you end up with all these spam calls and weird texts that make you feel like someone's watching over your shoulder and stealing your digital life. If you want to take back your privacy and your peace, you need Delete Me. They're like a digital cleaning crew. They find your information on these data broker websites, and they get it removed and they keep it gone. Peace doesn't just come from turning off notifications. It comes from knowing that your data is not up for sale. Right now, you can get 20% off your annual Delete Me plan when you go to joindeleteme.com. That's Deloni. That's join, J-O-I-N. Joindeleteme.com slash Deloni. Alright, let's go out to Chicago and talk to Isaac. What's up, Isaac? Hey, Dr. John, nice to meet you. You too, brother. What's going on, man? Yeah. How do I combat the shame I feel at being a first-time father? Tell me about it, man. So, at the end of last year, my wife and I found out we were pregnant. And so excited, first-time pregnancy. And we started, we went in for our first scan, the ultrasound scan, and the doctors immediately said that there's something big wrong. So, he was really small. So, they wanted to do some further testing. And there was a variety of issues, but the main one is that he... It was very likely that he was going to have Trisomy 21 or Down syndrome. Down syndrome, yeah. And so, we got designated as a high-risk pregnancy. My wife went in twice a week. We were in a hurry with her to get scans and make sure that everything was okay. And every week we would go in. They would just tell us more and more stuff that they thought was wrong, you know, from issues with his lungs to, you know, just... I became so... I dreaded going to those appointments because every week they would say, well, we think this could also be wrong. It could be nothing or it could be this very severe thing. So, then he came at 33 weeks and we spent... It was an emergency C-section, so we missed both my wife and I missed the pregnancy. I got to tell you, it's the most bizarre thing when someone just hands you a little, tiny little baby and says, this is your son and I didn't even get to see the birth. But we spent two and a half months in the NICU and it was just brutal, man. Like, you know, just like every day was like such intense traumatic things. And I felt so powerless. You know, I've never been a dad before, so I didn't know how to... I don't know what the point of a dad, you know, what a dad is supposed to do, but I do feel like part of it is to protect and to like, you know, I don't know, that's maybe a cultural way of thinking, but, you know, I couldn't... There was so little I felt like I could do to help this little boy. So, finally he came home and, you know, he came home with a feeding tube and he's still working on how to bottle feed. And man, I, you know, there's been so much trauma in my family when it comes to little kids. You know, lots of miscarriages and, man, I didn't think I was going to be this emotional. No, you're good, man. This is the most important, sensitive, heart-breaking, vulnerable conversation to have about a man as kids, man. You're good, brother. So, you know, cousins and, you know, just my family, everything from car accidents where little infants died to like, you know, pneumonia. And so my family, our culture is, I'm an immigrant and our culture is very sort of orthodox, religious. Okay. And so because of all this trauma... Tell me what that means. Tell me what that means when related to all this trauma. Yeah, you know, I'd say probably... Yeah, okay. So probably a good way to think about it for anyone who is religious is maybe more like, God will only love me if I perform well and if I follow the rules, you know? Okay. So that means the opposite is if something bad happens, it's a punishment because you didn't follow the rules. Exactly. And, you know, that's the culture we grew up in and my parents, you know, they sort of moved my brother and I out of that culture because they saw how it was, it wasn't a healthy way of living. But then tragedy after tragedy after tragedy. And so when I told my family, you know, that our little guy was going to have Down syndrome, you know, part of what they tried to do is, I think everyone was in shock. We didn't go anything about Down syndrome. And so part of it became like trying to like appease God and just be like, hey, please, like, you know, remove your anger or whatever from us. And I didn't know that they were doing this, but they didn't know what to do, you know? So this is part of what they were trying to do, just to help. And then when I found out about it, it just broke my heart, man, because I don't want this little kid to be born into that legacy. But I don't blame my parents or I don't blame my family, you know, because it's been a rough, it's been rough. And briefly, she do crazy things. Of course. Not even crazy, but trying to wrestle with why, why does this keep happening or why, you know, what's going on. So, yeah, man, I feel like I've got so much psychological baggage with this stuff. And, and, you know, the one thing I can say is the beautiful thing, the beautiful thing is this kid is starting to like smile at me and like, you know, so I'm like, man, how can, how can that world view be true at all? It just can't be because this little human is so beautiful and so cool. But I just feel so powerless. Yes. And he's got such a challenging road. So, so. So let me back out with you. Okay. No, don't ever don't apologize, man. I was, I was an honor to get and sit and listen to you. Okay. Have you told anybody else that in that way? You know, not like this. Okay. I want to, I want to say like just like, it's a high honor. Thank you for your trust there. Okay. So I want to go back. There is nothing, nothing more powerless. And I know this is to a mom, but I'm a dad. I'm talking to a dad. So I'm just going to talk to dads for a second. Nothing more powerless to a father watching their kids hurt. And not being able to ainting about it. Right. Oh dude, it sucks so bad, man. And this happened in utero. This happened when this baby was born and you couldn't even hold and hug your own son. No, no. But hold on. Hold on. Hold on. Hold on. Hold on. Hold on. Don't be sorry, but I want to make sure I catch you before that train leaves the station again. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Okay. You have a grief train that just is the moment it's just a bullet train ready to shoot out of the station. Yep. And then you go back up and tell you what I see. You told me that your wife had two appointments a week and that you went to all of them. You know the greatest thing a dad can do for his kids? Love their mother well. Yeah. You felt powerless, but you did the next right thing, which is to love that woman. And I kept telling you every, and this is because of this litigious society we live in. They gave you every possible awful thing that could happen. And you know what? You showed up anyway. It was so hard. I know. And you know what? What? Almost all the stuff they said didn't come true. Of course it didn't. Of course it didn't. They want to be able to CYA if this ends up in court. So they tell you all. Now that I'm after it all, I'm like, oh, that's what that was. Yes, of course. But listen, listen. You showed up. And here's what true masculinity looks like. Feeling that feeling, which you did. Most men get two paths in this current culture. Forget your feelings if you have any feelings because you're weak and your coward suck it up and go anyway. Or all you are is your feelings and you should curl up in a ball because it feels hard and uncomfortable and just play video games and eat Cheetos. And you took the third path. And this is true masculinity. This is true fatherhood. This is true husband. You felt it. You felt powerless. And let's be honest, whenever there's a genetic challenge with a kid or a birth, I don't call it birth defect, right? That's a crass way to say it. Every parent looks in the mirror and says, I did this to that kid. I know, man. This is from my body to that kid. Listen, you felt that and you went and did the next right hard thing. And that, my brother, is worth celebrating. I am proud to know you. Okay. And you did the next hard thing, which is your parents tried in whatever cultural, clumsy, whatever words you want to throw at it, they tried to love you the best they could, even if that meant them going in a closet and taking on God. They did that for you, right? Okay. So listen, that's not how you would have handled it. You wish they hadn't done it. But if you can see beneath the action to these people went to war with God for me. Yeah. And I sort of backed away from them. That's good. That's good. That's good. That's okay. It's okay. But listen, as I've thought about it, I've just thought like exactly what you're just saying is like, yeah. Those are right or dies, my brother. That's awesome. Yeah. Okay. And those are people who have felt pain of child, children, child loss, child pain. They know too. And they so didn't want you to have to experience that they took on God, which tells me they will always be in your corner. Okay. Now, here's the truth. Having a kid with Down syndrome is hard. Yeah. There's an extra layer of challenges that it's going to be in your life forever. Okay. Financial costs, social costs, and also the friends and family members, like the people in my world who I know have a family, like a kid or a cousin or a sibling with Down syndrome. They never tell that story without a smile on their face too. There is a deep and profound learning and joy that I've not anyone had ever heard somebody who has a sibling or a loved one with Down syndrome say, I wish everybody had this. But they all say it's also an amazing adventure of profound joy and life and hilarity and also really hard conversations. All of it, right? And you know this, it's a wide spectrum. So who knows how this is going to play out all that insecurity. What do you have proven to me and to the millions of listeners to the show and to yourself that you can feel that pain. The first time somebody makes fun of your kid. Yeah. The first time a school doesn't give them the services he legally and morally deserves. That you can feel that and go do the next right thing. And you can continue. This is a part of taking your power back as Rage Against the Machine once said like, this is how you do this. It's not about feeling powerless. It's about feeling powerless and then saying, hey honey, I'm doing dinner tonight. Even when you're tired and frustrated, you don't want to. Hey honey, I want you to go spend a night away at a hotel. I've already even booked it for you. I'm taking little one this weekend. Yeah. Even when you think you've got nothing else to give, I'm going to step in that gap. I'm going to go do the next right thing. I'm going to go learn everything I can about being a dad of a kid with Down syndrome. And I might even, two years from now, I might even start a local Facebook group of dads who just found out. And once a month, we're going to meet at a local diner. We're going to meet at my house. We're going to meet at a local church and I'm going to sit with you and y'all can cry. And you can say the words out loud. I wish this had never happened and I love my kid. Both things are true. It is that dichotomy. It is. It's such a strange experience. That's it. That's masculinity. Can you feel that dichotomy and go do the next right thing? And you've proven that, my brother. Oh man. Thank you. I really appreciate that. Okay. Yeah. It's, you know, I will say the, we luckily had people who have kids with Down syndrome who found out and they made such an effort to come talk to us. And they just said, they said, you know, because I think a lot of people see this as just a tragedy or just a sad thing. And, you know, one of my factors just said, just wait. There will be good. There will be good. Beauty. Yes. So that's what I hold on to. And, and, and it's hard. It's both. It's hard, man. It's hard. So here's the greatest gift you can give your wife and your kid. Okay. Number one, you make sure you have a group of men you can talk to and be as honest with them as you've been with me. Okay. Number two, every day of your life. Actually, I'm going to give it to you for free. I want you to, I'm going to give you my together app, which is just a daily thing. It will pop up on your phone and it is one thing to do for your wife. Oh, that's cool. Cool. And it will learn you over time. And so whatever your life situation is, it will give you challenges, things to do every day so that you remember the greatest way I can love my son is by loving his mother. Okay. Okay. And here's the third thing. I want you to learn everything you can. Knowledge is power here. So learn everything about 504 ADA laws. Learn everything about local schools in your area. Learn everything about the finances. Learn about special needs trusts in case something happens to y'all. All of these things, these are just things. This is going to be a new hobby for you, which is learning the ecosystem that is the United States and raising a special needs kid. And the last thing is let the people who love you, love you in whatever crazy or honorable or straightforward or faith centric ways they can. Like those people will be in your corner. Even if you don't like the way they're doing it, they'll be in your corner. And that's amazing. A lot of people call into this show and they haven't been the dads. They want to be you, my brother, him and the husbands they want to be. You, my man, are. It has been a high, high honor to get to talk to you. God almighty, you're a good man, dude. The new third way, feeling it and then going to do the next right heart thing anyway, whether that's forgiveness, whether that is keeping your mouth shut, whether that is loving your wife, whether that is weeping at the NICU unit and then going back to work the next day. It's doing the next right heart thing. It's calling a group of guys and saying, dude, I can't carry this anymore. I just need to come hang out. All of it. And you're doing that, brother. It's been a high honor. I got to talk to you. Thanks for calling. Hang on the line, brother. We'll get you hooked up. We'll be right back. It's the same thing every year, every Christmas. We promise ourselves that we're going to slow down and start focusing on the right things. But then what do we do? We sprint right into December shopping, parties, rapping, travel, frustrations, expectations. And before we know it, we're burned out and exhausted. The things that should matter most like peace, connection, even prayer, get shoved to the bottom of our lists. This year, make a choice to make it different. You can still find peace. You can still find rest. And that's why I want you to check out Hallow's Pray 25 Challenge, Be Still. It's guided by people you probably already recognize like Jonathan Rumi, Chris Pratt, Gwen Stefani, and others who will walk with you through the Nativity Story. Real people facing chaos, fear, and uncertainty who ultimately choose to find peace. Hallow has thousands of prayers, meditations, and even original Christmas music to help you slow down, smile, breathe, and reconnect with what really matters this holiday season. You deserve to find that peace this Christmas. So hit pause on the noise and be still. Go to Hallow.com slash D'Aloni for three months of Hallow for free and experience greater peace and stillness today. That's Hallow.com slash D'Aloni. All right, we're back. Kelly, all right, you just got back from the doctor. I did. So let's, I want to paint a picture. The other day, I may or may not have been late. And Kelly came in here, she's been taking Taekwondo and she, or Rex Kwon-Do as she calls it. And she came in here and did like 42 leg kicks on me and missed 41 of them, but she connected with one. And then evidently your leg busted. None of that happened. Thank you very much. Now, I have torn my meniscus at where it attaches to the bone. Yeah. So God gave you two. Why don't you choose the other one and get on with your life? Well, apparently you need both because there's one on each side. Oh gosh. I know. Apparently though they are, they kind of worked in tandem. You boomers are just enough. Not a boomer. Gen X just like you. Thank you. So yeah, I'm having surgery on the 21st of. Merry Christmas. Yeah. Yay. Hey, does this get you out of Thanksgiving cooking? It does. Is it a cracker bell Thanksgiving? Well, we go to my in-laws down there, but since my mother-in-law passed, I have been doing most of the cooking. And that's what we have in this year. Ayo, looks like a Taco Bell Thanksgiving. Like they have a Taco Bell down there, it's middle of nowhere. No Taco Bell. No Taco Bell. Other people will be cooking or I will be pointing and directing and. The only thing cooler than regular Kelly 1.0 will be Kelly on a whole bunch of dimmer all in Percocet. And so at a family event. Well, I don't think. With your normal four beers that you usually just rip off when you're hanging out with other people. Yes. No. Unfortunately, I think I don't think by the end that I'll be on any pain meds. But if it's anything like, so after I had my mastectomy a number of years ago and. And for like the first eight hours when they, I mean, you totally pay, I texted people. I ordered in the hospital by myself because my husband had left. I ordered clothes that came in the mail and I was like, I would never order these. Why did I order these? I texted a bunch of people. I say the text you sent me because they were raunchy. I didn't know you then. Oh, you did. Oh, you did. Well, dude, sorry that your leg hurts. It's what you get for trying to fight me. I know. Well, quit being an ass. I'm trying, but you keep coming in here. Fist of fury. Well, I hope your surgery goes well. Thank you. Have fun. Boys, we're going to be stuck with Kelly 2.0, which is kind of awesome. No, I won't miss any work. I'm going to miss any work. I miss Friday and then I'll be back on Monday. So. Oh, we had a vacation guys. Oh, good. Well, great. Love you guys.