You're listening to Miller and Moulton, coming at you from the Floormeister Studios. Floormeisters, keeping it real. And now, here's Mark Miller and David Moulton. We are halfway home on this Friday, at least in Jacksonville, Tampa, St. Pete, and Fort Myers, Naples. We are Miller and Moulton, millermoulton.com, Miller underscore Moulton on X. Final hour of the show in Port Charlotte, Venice and surrounding areas, Live Oak Lake City and surrounding areas. It's been a little while, so we want to catch up with Steve Carney because, well, he's got a lot of jobs, but the two main ones are he covers the Rays for a living and he's part of the Lightning Radio Network. So that interests us a great deal. Steve, welcome to the show. You can follow Steve on X, by the way. It's Steve Carney, C-A-R-N-E-Y. How you been? You know, I was glad to be back working the other night for the first time in like three weeks. You know, I don't like having that long of a break from my hockey. So it was great to be back. Yeah, it's funny. You know, we obviously all loved the Olympics. But up until the quarterfinals, the tournament was boring. It truly was. Now, it made up for it with the quarterfinals, semifinals, and obviously the gold medal game on Sunday. but I'm with you, 7 o'clock's rolling around, and I'm like, where's my damn hockey? And we talked about this a lot, Steve, because Tampa was playing so well before the Olympic break. Would they be able to continue? And yes, they lost last night in Carolina, coming back from an early deficit and getting it tied, but ended up losing the game. But they looked great against Toronto the night before, and it certainly looks like this team didn't miss a beat. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, they looked really, really good against Toronto, and that comes with Toronto's video coaches getting two goals overturned on offsides. That game should have been decided a lot earlier than it actually was. But this team, since December 20th, has accrued 41 out of a possible 46 points. The only two games they've lost in regulation are on the road in the back halves of back-to-backs with Jonas Johansson in net. So Andre Vasilevsky has been fantastic for this team. And they're only getting better. They got Braden Point back on Wednesday. They're expected to get Anthony Cirelli back this weekend, which is a good thing because this is going to be the true stretch for this team. They're going to play 17 games in the next 32 days. and they have three stretches where they have three games in four days and at the end of the month of March, they'll play six games in eight days. They'll play three and four, have a day off, and then play three more in four days. Well, even the players and people covering the league have talked about it was a very grueling schedule before the Olympic break and it's an even more grueling schedule coming out of it. And there's talk about can four years from now, they roll the same schedule out there? Are they going to have to adjust it? And I've even heard a couple of hockey people talk about with this star players, are you going to have to do a little load management down the stretch and sit them out of two or three games because they're just work to the ground? Which, let me tell you, to get a healthy star player to sit out of a game usually takes a subpoena, but we shall see. Can I get a little personal before we maybe talk a little raise? sure you're a navy guy i am did the olympics and sunday hate you differently you think than some of your friends i don't know i think you know for me i'm always team usa and and even though you know i i joked about being a little bit conflicted because i've got you know my my country on one side and the guy who's gotten me two stanley cup rings back-to-back years on the other side so you know it you get a little bit of a conflict but not really um uh you know i but i did joke i walked into um bay care ballpark in clearwater for a uh for a grapefruit league game and started uh chant you know doing the america song from team america world police uh to my friends uh who were working for mlb data ops who were there from Toronto. It was given them a lot of business. Not only for winning the gold medal, but also I joked that I've had shoulder surgery a couple of years ago because my shoulders got worn out from carrying the Stanley Cup over my head. I get brutal. I get brutal with my friends from Canada. Very nice. I appreciate that. It's funny when you went Navy, man. I thought there's been talk about moving the Army-Navy game, I really thought that was the question you were going to ask, and you went about USA. Quickly, more likely, Vasilevsky wins the Vesna, or Kucherov wins MVP? I have a feeling that neither is going to happen, which is really, really sad, and partly because I know that the hockey writers don't like giving the Hart Trophy to Russian guys, you know, especially when you have a McKinnon or a Matthews or a McDavid that's going to be out there. They would prefer to give the heart to one of those three guys over Kucherov any day of the week and twice on Sundays. And unfortunately, for how badly Vasilevsky started the year, I think that unfortunately, the old adage of it's not how you start, it's how you finish doesn't apply for the Vezina. So I have a feeling that neither is going to happen. I think the least likely of the two to happen, though, is Kucherov getting the heart. You know, if you're not getting the heart for 100 assists, the first time ever a winger has ever done that, and you're giving the heart to somebody else, I don't know what you have to do if you're Kucherov. But I wonder, because he did that last year and he's following it up with this year, because here's the other thing. How many more awards are you going to keep giving McDavid? I mean, did you see the question he got asked 36 hours ago? But when a Canadian reporter asked him, how come all the teams you're on keep losing? Yeah. Yeah. Okay. By the way, I mean, in Toronto, they're discussing. Spit my coffee out. Well, in Toronto, they're openly talking about they need to take the C off Austin Matthews' jersey. I mean, seriously, I'm telling you, these star players may look at one another. They may pull a D Wade, Bosch and LeBron and all get together two years from now and go, get me the hell out of Canada. I am sick of this crap. It's weird. It's I think it's just absolutely amazing at how finicky and fickle the Canadian hockey fan is at some points. But, yeah, I really I do really think it is funny that they're that they're going that. I mean, these guys are absolutely incredible athletes, and they've done some amazing things over the course of their career. I think that the media and the fan base is there. Forget just how hard it is to win a Stanley Cup because they've been so good. But you get into that, all bets are off. All right, let's switch gears to the Rays. One last thing, by the way. Vasilevsky leading the league in wins, leading the league in goals against average, tied for the league and save percentage. I mean, and they're going to end up with the best record probably in the East. Well, and Cooper needs to get a coach. I mean, one of these three guys, but between Kucherov and Cooper, one of them needs to win the damn award. I think Cooper wins his Jack Adams finally this year. Boy, I hope so. And you wonder if the Canadian writers who vote are still going to be pissed because he didn't win a gold medal and hold that against him, even though one has nothing to do with the other. but we have to all understand that there's that, whether you like it or not, right? Canadian media. All right, let's switch gears to the Rays. I would say a bit of a disappointing season last year because the expectations are that this team is a 500 or above ball club that always contends for a playoff spot. Can they get back to that this year? A lot of changes, but some pitchers coming back, I know they'll have to rely on their arms. When you look at this team, what are the strengths of the Rays right now, Steve? The strength of the Rays is standing over at third base. This team will go exactly as far as Junior Caminero will lead them. And I hate saying that because this team has always been about pitching and defense. But the problem is, is I had a mentor tell me it's really hard to win games when you score zero. And right now, I think that's going to be the biggest question is, Can this Rays team score enough runs to support their pitching staff? I really do think that, you know, they don't have Brandon Lau this year. You know I you know that that a huge piece that missing from from the middle of their lineup Yes they still have Yandy Diaz They still have Cam and Arrow But but you having to fill in with guys like Cedric Mullins and Gavin Lux and you know what in the world they going to have at shortstop, whether it's Ben Williamson or Carson Williams or Taylor Walls. You know, I still think the jury is still out on all three of those guys as to who's going to play a majority of time at shortstop. And the catching situation, you know, can you get one of these young guys, whether it's Nick Fortes or Hunter Fiducia or Dominic Keegan, who's probably going to start the year at AAA and I think has a really good shot of being in the big leagues at some point in the middle of the season. Can they get enough runs for their pitching staff? The pitching staff is going to be fine. Can they score enough runs? Not taking Buster Posey has only haunted this organization now for 15 plus years. Well, if they take Buster Posey, they don't have Junior Camonero right now. Are you, that's a long extrapolation though. Not at all. They took Tim Beckham. They trade Tim Beckham to get Tobias Myers. They trade Tobias Myers. They get junior Caminero. It's a two trade. It's a two move to two move deal. Okay. I think I'd rather have Posey. He's going to the hall of fame, but I hear you. Quickly, the owners, I'm in favor of the new ownership and everything they want to do, but it sounds to me like they're going to be losing money until they get that ballpark built and it's going to take them a few years in that ballpark to even start making money so i would think the rays aren't going to spend a lot of money for the next three to five years is that fair yeah i think that's fair david i think that uh you know this the the big question is is how do they get this ballpark built if they can figure out however the subsidy is going to work out you know and and you know i think that the the the um people in hillsborough county are going to have to ask themselves some pretty hard questions but if they can get the right answers and get this thing built i think eventually they they end up uh where they need to be uh payroll wise but it's going to take the ballpark are there any hurdles left ahead of them and de santis gave the money between the tampa city council hillsborough hillsborough county commission is there are there any hurdles left that you see steve yes because the community investment tax is going to go to raymond james stadium and not to not to a raised ballpark that's the big question Steve Carney covers the Rays, cover the Lightning. By the way, where can people read you for the Rays? I'm at Raisins Cider on Substack. Make sure you check it out, raisinsider.substack.com. Steve Carney, follow him on X at Steve Carney, C-A-R-N-E-Y. All the best to you and the family. Thanks for doing this. Safe travels around Florida. Thanks, boys. On my way to Port Charlotte now. All right, be safe. Steve Carney joining us once again here on Miller and Moulton. Steve and all our guests joining us on the American Paint Supplies Hotline. You're a one-stop shop for all your coding needs. Bill Bender coming up bottom of the hour. Lots to discuss in the college football world between new rules and the president holding a what could be an important meeting about the future of NIL. Miller and Moulton. Millerandmoulton.com. Welcome back to Miller and Moulton. Text the guys what's in your mind at 21000. That's 21000. And now, here's David Moulton. 21 minutes past the hour. Bill Bender of the Sporting News to talk the college sports scene and all the money in it. Are we going to come up with any rules? And if so, are they going to have teeth? are they going to have a lot of teeth or that's the wild wild wild wild west just let it be all right that mark miller d david moulton miller underscore moulton on x you can always listen to every hour of the show after the hour is aired at miller and molten.com a good way to get our show is youtube.com slash miller and molten also get to see us chat room right and a great solid signal no matter where you are youtube.com slash miller and molten so uh word has come out here in the last little bit that charlie baker the president of the ncaa has accepted his invitation to trump's roundtable. I think that's important. I don't see how he could say. First of all, you're the head of the NCAA. The president of the United States wants to convene a roundtable about the future of college athletics. I mean, you know, don't you? I mean, your daughter could be getting married that night. Don't you have to go for a few hours? Yes, absolutely. But look at the fact that we've got ADs, the fact that we've got former coaches, I would like to see some current coaches. I've made some jokes that we've got, you know, Tebow and Charlie Ward going that are both former Heisman trophy winners. I think I'd rather have, you know, Eric Dickerson and a few guys that got paid back in the day. So they could explain to everybody that this has been going on since the beginning of time. How about Cam Reggie Bush? We could go modern. We can go 21st century. We can go Bush. We can go Cam. Yeah. Let's go. I mean, the cat's out of the bag here. So let's have an open and honest discussion. Because, you know, look, I get that Nick is – everybody wants Nick to be the commissioner of college football. Nick got players paid. Well, maybe he didn't, but let's not act like Alabama didn't pay guys. and all he's really done on ESPN is complain that the only reason guys are going north is because they're paying more money well they're now paying guys Nick see before your conference and Ohio State were the only ones paying players now everybody's doing it Michigan wasn't going to cheat Notre Dame wasn't going to cheat now they can do it legally and they have no problem doing it and they have very deep pockets and they got money right and you left alabama for a lot of reasons but one of those reasons and you never say it but i'm sorry it's true you don't have the money at alabama that other schools have you just don't and you never will so you've got enough to win okay but you're not gonna be you know i mean is alabama the braves and the Braves are top 10 payroll. All right. But, you know, and the Braves could be number one or two. I mean, they just had to be since they're owned by a company and they got to disclose, you know, I mean, they have $730 million of revenue last year. I mean, the Braves could be the Dodgers if they wanted, but the company's like, no, we're going to field a really good team and we're going to make money. Thank you very much. Well, that's why I would say they're not the Braves because they don't have that kind of revenue. you know i mean alabama is never going to be texas they're never going to be texas tech or texas a&m they're just not but i i think they might end up being 10 to 20 if you know what i mean okay because their fan base cares and they're gonna have to do it a little differently right okay but i see i know where you're coming from i just it's uh and you're right i look at the more people that I see attending this, the higher my regard is to this meeting. I just don't know, you know, outside of an executive order, what it is that can be done. Here's my question. Let's just say everybody shows up. Who in the rooms on the side of the players? And I'm serious. because, I mean, I kind of feel I don't care about the politics, even though I'm guessing out of the 35, at least 30 are Republicans. I don't care. All right. But I'm curious. Anybody on the side of the players here? Anybody when Nick goes on one of his diatribes is going to go, you're full of blank. Seriously. Charlie Ward? I don't think Tebow will be. Well, you're right. That's what I want to know. Is anybody going to go, you guys are full of blank? you want to have some rules that's fine but i mean that's what i'm wondering is anybody i mean i'm curious what the texas tech guy he's funding both sides of the coin he thinks there needs to be serious rules put in place but until they are he's giving texas tech as much money as they asked for it for everything football basketball girls softball he don't care nope he wants texas tech to be good really good and he knows the way to do it is his pocketbook yeah he figures the best way for you guys to listen to me is if we beat your butt i mean think about it in one year's time texas tech made the college football playoff and made the National Championship Series in softball. Okay Yep got it And if their best player hadn torn a knee ligament in basketball that was the final four contender You're damn right. It was. And there are some that still think it is the people that we trust. Right. That they think that that that's part of this, that's going to hurt them. And, you know, we've talked about it for a while. There's probably 12 to 14 Final Four contenders. How many national title contenders there are? Well, we think that's a different story. Big one tonight, by the way. Michigan's at Illinois. Michigan coming off of a loss to Duke. Illinois has played really solidly the second half of the season. I think they've been one of the five best teams in the country, and maybe six best teams in the country the second half of the season. Have they played since they lost in overtime at UCLA over the weekend? I don't believe so. No? That was a surprising loss because everybody's taken care of it. Every good team, whether it's been home or the roads, had no problem with UCLA. It was a big win for the Bruins. I will say, Illinois had an early double-digit lead. I mean early, like 22-10. And you were kind of looking at Cronin and the UCLA players and thinking, well, this is it. Are they going to quit on him? Because he's been so lovely to deal with all year long. And I'm wondering, are they quitting on him? And they dug deep against a really good team and beat them in overtime. So Illinois and Michigan tonight, that's a solid college basketball game. You know, the NBA's had some good matchups, but you don't know who's playing. Like SGA is coming back here this weekend. And I was reading an article because we were talking earlier this week about Cade Cunningham. Is he an MVP candidate? And I watched a guy just completely obliterate that idea by saying it's Yoko's or SGA, but neither are going to, you know, there's a chance that neither will hit the game threshold. And he thinks that that rule is ridiculous. I don't know if it's ridiculous. If you miss 17 plus games, are you really an MVP? I mean, that's 20% of the season. That's where Adam Silver drew the line. If you're only going to play at most 80% of the season, you're not eligible for any of the awards. I don't have a problem with that. I really don't, especially the MVP. I don't know how you can give it to a guy who's not there one out of five games. And I'm not saying he's dogging it. Okay. Might get hurt. Well, in the past, guess what? You got hurt. You missed 20, 30 games. You didn't win the MVP. Sorry, you weren't there. It's where the old school guy looks at the number of games Jordan played every year and compares that to the players now and says, I'll take my league over yours. And Miller and Moulton get it because I listen to a current player or a former player say, look, these guys are more athletic. They're probably better athletes than we were. But going to the lane in our day was a different game. You took your life into your hands going to the lane. Yeah, all I know is you pay for these tickets and you have no idea who's going to show up and play. I'm never paying for an NBA ticket again. 22 minutes till we get to the top of the hour. and then it's the Diamond District Bonus Hour here on Miller and Moulton. Millerandmoulton.com. Miller underscore Moulton on X. It's been a while. We're always excited when Bill Bender decides to take our call. A tremendous college football writer and college sports writer for the sporting news. Follow him on X at BillBender92. BillBender92. Bill, it's David and Mark once again. We hope you and the family are well. How are you? Doing well. Thanks so much for having me on. I'm completing a school drop-off for the next 30 seconds, and then from there we'll be good. It was a late start morning at St. Charles. All right, well, just make sure you're in the right lane because the last thing you want are any of those moms yelling at you. That could lead to just the start of a really bad day. So make sure you're in the proper lane and stopping. I just know stopping where you're supposed to stop, very important. I remember those days. well, I don't do the drop-offs now. I do the pickups when I'm in charge and I get back home. But all right, this has been a big week, Bill, for college football. Between the tampering rules that the NCAA is talking about, President Trump having this roundtable discussion with a lot of different folks, let's start with President Trump's roundtable. Do you think anything will come of this? you know i think with with tampering it's a certain it's a thing where i don't know how you police it and i think the penalty for it should be and at least in my opinion that if you get caught you know like kind of how dabbo called out pete golding if there's evidence and you get caught i the best way to deter it is probably to have the coaches serve suspensions because and even if one of your assistant coaches uh gets caught the head coach feels that because i think that's the best way to stop that because these head coaches with how much they have control over the program they're not going to let that happen at that point um i think once you're under contract at a school you're under contract it's like the nfl has pretty severe tampering penalties when their guys get caught tampering there's no question well isn't this proposed rule taking that into consideration i mean if you grab a guy off another team's roster who did not put himself in the portal the head coach gets six games and he doesn't just get saturdays he gets six weeks go home hand in your phone and we'll see you after columbus day i mean that sounds pretty severe to me yeah i mean there's only 12 games and the amount of uh time and energy that goes into planning a program and at fall and i think then it would stop you know um i i don't know how you police it there's so many ways to contact people you know what i mean in uh 2026 whether it's a instagram message whatever uh facebook message uh i don't know how you police it but it it would be there would be a lot of denials i'm sure of that but i just think it would help the sport a lot if we're not talking about pampering in the offseason and how that's done and and the process in which that's done i think that's a a big one in terms of it for professionalizing the sport which we've essentially done i think contracts and those kind of things need to be done in an nfl fashion like for example i think when you sign with a school you probably should have to sign a two-year contract and now i don't know how you do that without flex bargaining but you know like you're at a school you give them two years you break your contract you're not getting paid we saw this happening what's going on with cincinnati right now with brendan soarsby like they i didn't think i would be covering college football and they're releasing statements about money that needs to be repaid to the school because of an NIL deal. Well, Bill, I'm with you because that story is fascinating to me. And where David and I have always been on this is if you're going to sign the player for two years, the school's on the hook then too. And I don't like the idea of a guy transferring four times. I really don't. David and I have always been for paying the players. We knew the Wild West would come. We think it needs to be reined in. Do you think it can be reined in? Yeah, I mean, that's one way. I think contracts and those kind of things would deter players from going to the transfer portal. I'm still a believer in, there's two things I believe in from a roster management standpoint. One, you get one free transfer. And the second one, maybe we go back to the old rule where you have to sit a year. that way you'd be more choosy. I'm less, I think NFL GMs, this is a great time to talk about this, at the Combine, they're less worried about all the transferring. In fact, I've heard this narrative that some NFL GMs are good with it because, say, a quarterback, for example, now they've played in multiple systems. As long as it's not an attitude type thing or this guy's just not coachable, then they're less worried about it. That does make sense to me too. Bill Bender, college football, sporting news. Follow him on exit. Bill Bender 92, Bill Bender 92. All right. The summit or whatever it's going to be called a week from today at the White House, about three dozen people being invited. Can imagine many of them are going to say no from what you seen What do you think Well you know I don know how much the White House is going to help change college football, if we're being honest. And I'm not, you know, I'm not a big politics and sports guy. I understand it's part of it. It's absolutely part of it. And, you know, unfortunately, the big victories last night or last week with the women's and men's hockey team have become somewhat politicized and i don't know i don't think the players are as worried i think they're they're celebrating each other's accomplishments and that kind of thing now will president trump change college football in a sweeping fashion probably not but i i think another one here was the other one i didn't mention in the last question i would give players five years i would say we're not red shirting you have five years to do your thing okay we're removed from COVID enough. We don't need eight-year players. And five years gives you a cushion of, hey, if you suffer a torn ACL, that's one year. With extreme exceptions, I wouldn't grant a sixth year. You're getting paid now. You've got five years to do what you need to do. If you get injured, that's one thing. A hardship waiver where you're going to move because of family reasons or something, that's covered in the five years. You have five years of eligibility ability use them wisely and i think that would eliminate some problems is that too harsh no we're actually on your team there we're we're completely on your team with that bill and you know the other thing is that i guess it's not political but it's it is law and order if you will it seems that if you can go to a judge in your state that went to your school you can get anything you want overturned. And I actually applaud Sankey for not wanting the Alabama basketball player to be able to play. I mean, at some point, the commissioners have to quit worrying about what's best for their members in their conference and what's best overall for the sport. And right now, I don't think Petiti and Sankey always do that, Bill. No, that's a great point. And, you know, as far as those go with the judges, is that's the one part I can't predict or because I think in some cases there's a disconnect between judicial law and they a judge for example that might not follow sports as closely as you and I do that they might say well what's the difference you know and they have a point now because the players are getting paid and the NFL players are getting paid but I they can't really in some cases distinguish the difference between i always use the analogy of like is this one of the few jobs right now where a quarterback in college can make more money than a professional quarterback and when that's happening at a lower level than professional football um there's something wrong there's a disconnect with the sport but as long as people are going to pay those numbers college football, I always use the phrase, I've probably used it on your show, it's one of the few sports, it's maybe the sport that is most governed by human emotion. You know what I mean? And that hasn't changed. Bill Bender, Sporting News, follow him on xBillBender92, Bill Bender92, and there's no doubt that really unless you're a first-round quarterback, I mean, if you're a top college quarterback, I think for the first two, three years, your NFL deal, you would be making more in college than you'd be making in the NFL. I don't think there's any doubt about that. Do you think there's anybody in the room in the White House a week from today that will stand up for the players? because most of the public comments that I've seen from all of the people, I mean, maybe Adam Silver of the NBA. I don't know where Charlie Ward is on this, and I'm very intrigued what he has to say since he was an outstanding basketball and football player. But I'm just wondering how many people, when Nick gets on his soapbox, are going to say to Nick, you're full of crap. well yeah you know we'll see um the the players one of the itches in everything that we're doing here is that the players don't have um hold on a second i got somebody at my window um Hold on. Okay. No, but the players don't have the empowerment of being paid. The players don't have, you know, the voice. There's no NFLPA, so to speak, for college athletes. Does that make sense? Yeah. And until they have that voice where they can collectively bargain, that's one of the things that needs fixed as well. And I'm with you. I think the players, we can side with them, but I think most of the general public doesn't because they're getting paid without a voice, if that makes sense. No, it makes total sense. And, you know, I guess, Bill, the one thing that everybody didn't want to see was pay for play. They want an NIL to be true. Well, it's not. It's pay for play. It's obvious. I don't think you can put the toothpaste back in the tube, if you know what I mean, Bill. Do you? No, I don't think we can. I think, how do we go? We can't go backwards. So, you know, when you tend to do a, one of the suggestions we have is like a salary cap. I'm a fan of that. But the salary cap supposedly is going to be that $22.5 million that we pay players through the school. But we always go on top of that. Certain schools have certain more resources. You're going to see that. Another thing that we're going to see happen is places like Texas Tech and Indiana, they have huge financiers. I mean, Mark Cuban obviously contributed. Texas Tech has Campbell. Cody Campbell. And they're emerging as, I mean, I'm using those two as extreme examples, but are they like an NFL owner now, basically, of a college team? And I think, you know, one of the examples you saw very brightly yesterday at the Combine, Texas Tech guys were awesome at the Combine. Lee Hunter was great. David Bailey was unbelievable. So is it just going to be a thing where those type of schools that have those NIL resources to throw on top of 22 and a half million are going to survive and other schools are going to die, not die like literally, but figuratively in terms of that. I mean, that's very real and could happen. Well, and I love the fact that Cody Campbell of Texas Tech there is one of the 35 people who has been invited because he is on both sides of the coin and he says, hey, I'm going to keep spending obscene money until you listen to me and it sounds like a week from today it'll be the first time that anybody of importance in a room will listen to him bill hope everything worked out okay in the pickup line uh have a great weekend and safe travels and we'll catch up down the road hey real life radio is always a little bit different i appreciate having you guys on thanks for having me and uh i'll talk to you both soon appreciate it love live radio absolutely love it very human people can relate bill bender of the sporting news. Follow him on X, BillBender92, BillBender92. Well, you know, and I hope I'm wrong, but it sounds like he's a little bit with me that this presidential council, he doesn't put a lot of weight in it. Hey, anything to help the sport, but I think the point you've made, David, throughout the show is a really good point. Who's representing the players in this room? Who's going to tell Nick and Urban, and I don't know if Urban's there, but that they're full of it. Urban is one of those that was invited. It was Nick, Mac Brown, and Urban, the former coaches, invited. I'm a little surprised to invite Darren Heitner. I mean, seriously. I mean, even if it's one voice, you need somebody in the room to look at all everybody else and go, you guys are full of crap. I'm just telling you right now. And you guys don't understand what the real world is out there. Let me tell you about the phone call I had yesterday with the University of North Carolina. I mean, I think that's needed. 100%. 100%. Because the game has changed. And if we don't recognize that, I don't think we can put proper things in place to fix it, if that's indeed what they want to do. Miller and Moulton. The bonus hour. The Diamond District bonus hour. Coming up on the other side, miss any of the show, Millerandmoulton.com or anywhere you download your podcast. Thanks for listening.
