Celebrity BFF Breakups, Cancelled Stars and Crisis PR

I want to tell you guys about Ruggable. They are so fabulous. I had such a good time going to their site and picking out my brand new big, beautiful rug for my home studio. It's a much bolder pattern than I normally would do, but that's what makes it so fun because it's such a great price. It's performance built. There's a wide range of styles, high quality look and feel. It really feels like a traditional rug. I love that it's easy to clean. It's a stain resistant, so it's perfect for kids, pets like I have. It's machine washable. Most sizes fit in a home washer up to an 8 by 10. And it's durable and built for real life. And it's built in non-slip backing, which is so great. Refresh your home at rugable.com. Get 10% off your first order site-wide with promo code JUICYSCOOP. Ruggable.com. That's R-U-G-G-A-B-L-E.com. And use code JUICYSCOOP at checkout. Welcome to the naughtiest show on television. To the unmissable crime drama High Potential. Gotta dead body, gotta go. A lifetime of great stories awaits. This spring on Disney Plus, 18 Plus, subscription required. T's and C's apply. Heather McDonald has got the Juicest Scoop. When you're on the road, when you're on the go. Juicest Scoop is the show to know. She talks Hollywood tales. Her real life, Mr. Sake and Serial Data. And Serial System. You'll be addicted and addicted fast to the number one tabloid real life podcast. Listen in, listen up. Woo, woo. Heather McDonald. Juicest Scoop. Hello and welcome to Juicest Scoop. Well, we have a great show for you. We get into so many hot topics. And, but before we get there, I just want to remind you, I will be doing standup comedy for shows in Salt Lake City, March 20th and 21st for shows at Wise Guys Comedy Club. Go to heathermcdoll.net. Get your tickets. Also, as you may or may not have heard, there's been big news in the bravo world as far as Real Housewives of New York City. They are bringing Carol Radzwell, friend of Juicest Scoop, has been on many times and was part of the original Real Housewives of New York cast. They're only saving three of the girls from the last couple of years, which is Aaron Sy and Jussell. They're bringing back Carol Radzwell and three new people, one which is quite controversial. And those, I will give you my thoughts, my thoughts about Carol, my thoughts about what I think the show will work. And so many more of my controversial takes and opinions on Friday's Patreon. If you've not joined my Patreon yet, I don't know what you're doing with your life, but you go to heathermcdoll.net and you can join there. And there's all these different options, but it's every Friday, commercial free. You go back 1,100 episodes or whatever it is and listen to every single one of them and binge it and have a blast. All right, you guys, I'm very excited for you to hear this interview. I did. We get into PR crisis and so much more and we cover many current hot topics. So here we go with my show. Hello and welcome to Juicest Scoop. I'm so excited to talk to my guest today. Welcome, Ashley Hansen. We met through a mutual friend, but what's so interesting about your career and entertainment is that you've really worked in all facets of PR strategy, crisis PR. And so I thought we could just talk about some topics and things and like, how would you counsel the person to get into it? So ready? Get right into it. Okay, this is from Biowig. Hello, drama because they were reading Lisa Renna's book that just came out and I, someone sent this to me earlier today too. I'm not surprised that she would do this because it's her personality, but she wrote, I'm happy to drag Sutton, who is the co-star of Real House of Early Hills with her. She's frumpy. There's no sex appeal about her whatsoever. And she's got a weird body. So God bless her. As somebody who watches the Real House of Early Hills, I don't even remember Sutton and Renna even having any issues. Renna brought Sutton in. And then at one point there was something about an Elton John party. Do you remember? Oh, you're right. That's the beef. And then Sutton was like, I paid for you and Harry to go. And she's like, that's not true. And then it became. I remember. Okay. So it was the Elton John Oscar thing for the charity. And she, yeah, Sutton, I think Sutton is wealthy. She was going to these things. And, but Lisa Renna being a star was able to go to charity events in Hollywood for free for years. And therefore, I think she was the housewife and Sutton invited her. And I don't think she ever even thought to offer to pay or anything. She was just like, I'm a star. I'm at your table. And now you're on Real Housewives. You're welcome. And then when Sutton revealed that, she was like, okay, that's what I think happened. Like she was like, okay, like, don't make me look like I didn't pay my phone bill like enough. Agreed. And I also think the way that these tables work, as you know, is like one person will buy or a studio will buy and then they can give out those tickets. So you're not paying for individual seats when somebody's bought a table. So obviously, I think Sutton bought that table and then decided to put a number on those two seats when probably from Lisa's experience. She's like, I get invited to these things like you said. Right. And those Hollywood charity events, like I have been given free tickets to those things as well. They want pressed from it, which I give press with the podcast, but also, you know, they want a certain number of celebrities because the people that are not celebrities that bought tickets. That's why that's part of the appeal. And, you know, so yeah, maybe you're not paying the $500 ticket, but then also you might buy the auction item for, you know, $10,000. But getting back to just going on her body. I saw this and I was like, Oh my God, because a very similar thing has happened to me. Did somebody said it to you or you said about somebody? No. So I was looking for it. Okay. I cannot find the exact video, but I haven't looked very hard. When I was at Chelsea lately, I distinctly remember she went on Watch What Happens Live and there was video of the after show. And at that time we were fine. I was on the show, but the whole vibe of the show was like picking and bullying and making fun of people. Right. So the caller called and said something like, why are you, why you mean to Heather or something like, why do you something about me, Heather? Yeah. And she goes, and I remember like watching with everybody. And I was like, this is so weird. But at the time she was my boss, you know, so I'm like, I'm not going to say something. But like basically what she said was just like, she was just trying to be her like weird self. And she said, well, for one thing, Heather McDonald has a terrible body. And, and, and he's like, what? And then she went on to say some other like weird quirky thing. And then that was like it. And I remember sitting in Jen Kirkman's office and people were all watching it. I was like, okay. Like, I mean, did she get backlash for it? No, back then nobody really was like, nobody was like cutting clips and saying anything. And they were just like, that's why we got away with the stuff we did on Chelsea later for so long. But I just remember going, I mean, first of all, you don't not that it doesn't matter. But like, I had, you know, everyone, everybody is different, you know, like, and, you know, Sutton has her distinct figure. I think she looks good in clothes. She's, you know, thin and was a former ballet dancer and other people have a curvy body. Other people have a fake ass. Other people are stick skinny. It's just like, it's such a weird thing to say. And, but my body was always like, just something to kind of make fun of. They'd say like long boobs and I didn't have long boobs, but it came out of like a sketch and all this kind of stuff. And there was nothing I could say about it. And I was just like reading this today. And I was like, what if I would have just gone into her office and been like, what the fuck? Yeah, like, you know, but that just wasn't, we had this, the dynamic was set from the top. And that was just something that you just were like, oh, obviously she doesn't mean it. It's just a joke. Yeah. But to like put it in writing, have five editors and be like, but I feel like that's what she wants. I think she wrote this whole book to have sound bites or whatever and have people talk about it. So like, I find her very entertaining. I'm not surprised that she would bash someone's body when, you know, which is weird when her own daughters have been accused of body shaming as far as like being too thin in this and that. And people actually criticized her on some seasons about her, her figure and her weight. And I think like, you know, the joy or what used to be the joy in watching those shows, it was less about them being mean and more really just about the trials and tribulations of female friendship. Yeah, sometimes you're in, sometimes you're out, sometimes yes, you get upset and then you talk to your other friend and then there's there's like relatable chaos because I feel like we all have some degree of that, maybe without all the extreme wealth in some cases. But it's, didn't her end to say like, say it, no, write it, regret it. Say it, forget it, write it, regret it. Yes. There's, there's a difference, I think, and sometimes, you know, obviously this is how we think through things when we have to decide, is it going to be a statement? Is it going to be somebody talking on video when they have to like deal with something? Yeah. What you may get away with or what she might have gotten away with in a confessional is very different than how this reads. Yeah. And I think that maybe, you know, in writing the book, she's expressing herself the way she might have on the show. Yeah. Maybe even up, up it to some degree for the purposes that you mentioned. I mean, And or whatever reason. Yeah, I think she's definitely like, oh, I'm going to talk about, I'm going to burn down the bridge, baby. I've got nothing to fucking lose. Yeah. And she actually doesn't have anything to lose. So I don't know, but. I think it's important. What would you, what would you advise Sutton to do in a situation like this? She shouldn't say anything. Yeah. She says, if she, if she responds, she's going to give credence to it. It'll get her more attention. Right. It'll get the whole thing more attention. I think if it's, if it's me in that situation and, and somebody makes a comment on my body, I would like it to not go as far as humanly possible. So her only. For me, like now, if that was in some book right now, I would absolutely use it to my advantage. I think she can do that. At this point, I would be like, I'd be like, yeah, this is my body. And you know what? I, I'm healthy. I'm so grateful that I haven't been plagued with any kind of like cancer. I can play tennis. I can play pickleball. I can run around. I can dance. I can do that. If it's not the shape of body that turns you on, Lisa Renna, who has been accused of, you know, having a weird marriage and whatnot. Like, okay, didn't, didn't know you were looking at me to be sexy for you. Like I would have made it like, I'd make it like a joke and put something back out there. Cause I'm like, you've already brought me into it. So I might as well ride the wave of the press too. I also think in terms of response, it's like, I think you're better built to get into that kind of. Yeah. Dialogue. Whereas I feel like Sutton isn't as comfortable in moments of confrontation. It's just the body shaming. Cause it's like, I know that Emily from OC has been very much body shamed, Heather from Heather gay has been body shamed, you know, for just being a fuller, you know, different body than your typical size to girl. But I don't think that people realize that the body shaming that goes on with bodies that are not where you get body shamed because they, you have a unique shape, you know, and it's like, or you are too thin, or you like to be thin, or whatever. And then people poke at that. And it's just kind of like, no, if we're all going to, if we're all going to be up in arms about one kind of body shaming, then we should be up, be mad about it all, you know, and be like, that's just not cool. I agree. When we're all aging women, like, look, Lisa, Rena has been blessed with being, having an incredible figure well into her sixties. That seems very effortless, very genetic. And one time I was trying, we were trying out for this talk show, I think that didn't go. And people were in the room just like, how do you keep that figure, you know, type of thing. And she goes, you know, actually, I don't enjoy eating. I really don't. I don't love it. I don't have, I'm not that person that's like a foodie that likes to eat. It's like an inconvenience in my life. Okay. Well, then that's really nice. Because you brought Krispy Kreme's and I fucking had a donut. So I think it's great if you have automatic, like, ozempic brain since you were born and you never had to think about like good for you. Yeah. I will say something because I've definitely struggled with my weight throughout the years, but like the most infuriating thing I have found is when, you know, you'll see a model and they're like, oh, he just ate a cheeseburger right before the show. And it's like, maybe you did. It's hard to believe that that would be the case because even if I would say if I was any shape, I'm not going to eat a lot before I do. Yeah. I don't have any kind of appearance for the sake of like, you know, bloating or wherever. Yeah. Um, but it just, it's so unrelatable. Yeah. Do you know what I mean? Like it just drives a further wedge. Or it's trying to be that I'm, I'm so relatable. Like, but you're not. I just like a cheeseburger. Like what? I'm just whatever. I mean, so I think that's interesting. I do think Sutton will benefit though. If she does remain mum on this, I think she will have the internet on her side. Yes. And sometimes in situations like this, I would say way better for the internet and people to come to her defense than her even having to say it herself. It's always better. Yeah. I think if you were to say anything, you don't go after Lisa. You don't talk about her body or her weight issues or the fact that she says mean things for shock value. What I think you would say is I am so, cause when people criticize my looks and stuff, I'll be like, you know what? Could you take it up with my two dead parents in heaven? Cause they made me. Right. And this is their nose combo and like, ugh, you should be pissed at them. You should be really mad at them. Cause I'm just like, what are you supposed to do? Like what am I supposed to do? And like, so I, and we all get it. You're not special. Like I'm not actually like, oh, I'm getting more hate than the next person. Anybody that has like more than 300 followers probably have gotten some weird hate troll. But like, I think the thing to say is just to be like, I am so grateful that these legs work, that I can dance, that I'm this age, that I'm, that my doctor's happy with my weight, that I'm happy with it. Like, it's, you know, glad you, you know, and not even to be like, not even one snarky thing, not even like good luck with your book, just something like, oh, oh my gosh. You know, I, I, I, I love my body. And it's not weird to me. Sorry, it was weird to you. It definitely approached it from a place of strength and confidence. Yeah. Yeah. I want to tell you guys about Ruggable. They are so fabulous. I had such a good time going to their site and picking out my brand new, big, beautiful rug for my home studio. It's a much bolder pattern than I normally would do, but that's what makes it so fun because it's such a great price. It's performance built. There's a wide range of styles, high quality look and feel. It really feels like a traditional rug. I love that it's easy to clean. 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And then they broke up and the story is very juicy in a nutshell. In a nutshell, Sophia had a boyfriend who was an executive who said you guys should be making more. And so she went to Alex Cooper and was like, we should be making more and Alex Cooper, then they went to the head of barstools, Dave Portnore and Dave was like, I'll give you this much more. And so Alex was like, cool. And so if he was like, no, and then Alex is like, let's break up. I'll take this deal. But the deal was only for one year. And then she leaves and basically takes the advice that was given to her by Sophia and the guy, Sophia was dating. And obviously sets a great deal for herself and has skyrocketed and built an incredible career. Sophia has done great by any means as well. Is she at the Alex Cooper level? No. But I had her on my show years ago, like during COVID. And I was like, I just need to ask you about it because it was interesting to see the hate. It was like there was hate because we're mad that the two of you broke up. We're mad that we're not having the dynamic and people taking sides. You know, oh, Sophia met a guy and it's the guy talking and she was greedy. And I was like, I think guy or not. Yes, you guys deserve to be making more and yes, you should own it. So like, I don't. So anyway, now she has a book coming out. And I think it's, I think it's great because I think even if you have only listened to Alex Cooper since they broke up. And you just were like, I don't need to listen to Sophia. You're going to want to read the book. Yeah, agreed. So I think it's great. I don't know. Now, how do you feel about timing? And I think it's kind of smart timing that she let several years pass. Yeah, I think in a, in, I see that point, I think in this case, you know, great that she's doing it. I think the title is also amazing and really catchy and which is called daddy issues. Oh, daddy issues. Yeah, yeah. I love a great title. But I, the only thing about letting something go for too long is if the world sort of feels like it's over. Then you're like, why are you bringing this up again? That's a good point. But in this case, I think Alex is obviously, she's incredibly successful. She's done really well for herself. And I do think she got the brunt of the split. Yeah. Because, you know, Alex wanted to keep going so that they would ultimately, I think, get the IP for the show. Right. They had one more year or something. And so that has to be really painful. But on top of that, when you, whether you've been wronged or you don't get along with somebody anymore and you see, have to watch them skyrocket. See, that's why I think that is juicy. Yeah. Like, I'm always like, I want to know what happened that day. But I also want to hear like, where you mentally were six months later. And then, and then, you know, whatever, three years after it happened, I thought things were great. And then I had to open my phone. She made a hundred and twenty million dollar serious XM deal. And you're like, I have a beautiful home. Yep. I'm doing better than 99.9% of the other podcasters. But my partner, and from what I recall, I wasn't like a big listener of the show is it was Sophia had that that made the expression. I'm unwell, which is now the brand, the drink, the, the sweats are in target and that she was more the comedic one. But then Alex was the one that I also think did the heavy lifting because she actually knew how to edit and do all that type of work. So I, I see both sides and how they met organically and became such good friends and everything. And when I talked to Sophia all the way back then, I go, look, you know, it's very hard. I've said this, I'm like, there's, there's as more podcasts begin, there's probably just as many Hollywood podcast, you know, host breakups as there are like real Hollywood marriages because it's a really hard thing to keep going. And you, and my advice to friends that started is just like, have a really clear understanding, even if it's just a contract that you put together yourself of like, if one of us doesn't want to do it, who keeps the name or the name goes. Yes. Separate or whatever the case is. And how do we work out how much work each person does, you know, you need to have all that conversation, but. Even when it comes down to language. Yeah. I think sometimes people forget in contracts, what would have been really smart and maybe they had it at some point or if they got into litigation, but like, you can write into contracts early on if we ever split. Essentially. Yeah. This is what the line is. And you hold that line or I hold that line and if we don't. Yeah. We're on the hook for it. Right. There's some sort of a penalty. Right. You know, sometimes comes and especially in times of crisis, people think about it as an afterthought. Right. Instead of doing like a full risk assessment upfront, which I think in this case would have probably prevented some of the messiness or the unbalance. Yeah. I do think people are interested like, you know, also what happened between her and Alex Earl. There was like mystery around that. Yes. She's had two fallouts now. So I do think even though. I also think that's unfair too to assume that, you know, it's on common denominator because my theory about the Alex Earl thing is I think that Alex Cooper does take podcasting seriously. Agreed. And I think she picked up this influencer that is so fun to watch and so great on the Instagram and the Tik Tok, Alex Earl. And I don't know the answer, but I'm wondering if if the people were not choosing to listen to Alex Earl for an hour, you know, yes, they'll watch you for 90 seconds, put your outfit together while your boyfriend stands in the back. But that's a whole, that's why a lot of influencers, the podcasting doesn't work because can you talk for an hour and a half week after week and still tell far stories and, you know, and so maybe there was a little bit of like, you need to do this, this and this. And she's like, hey, I'm making $10 million a year on doing Instagram and commercials. I don't need to be told by you how to change it. And I just don't want to do it anymore. Yeah, could just have been a bad or or she started to read negative comments, which is like, I think another reason why like movie stars and influencers leave podcasting because when they were doing movies and stuff, they didn't have this direct. Your voice is annoying. You said the same thing twice. Why did you know, and they just are like, this isn't for me like mentally. This is not where I want to be. So I, it could have been something. It could have been something way juicier than that or it could have been something like that. We just don't know. And then they both knew legally we're not going to bash each other and and Alex now being in this world for a while kind of knows, I think to be like, can we make an agreement that we don't know. Now, do you think that Alex Cooper cares that this book is coming out? I think so. Yeah, I would. Yeah. You know, anytime you like, if you have a friendship that breaks up or anything like, or maybe at least I do, it's sort of like, what are they going to tell people about me if, if, you know, like, I think when you get to know somebody and you have vulnerabilities. I think if I was Alex Cooper, I would not mention this tell the book comes out. Agreed. I would then, you know, get an advanced copy from somebody and, and you know, if there's obviously it's going to be her perspective. Obviously, it's not going to make Alex look like the greatest girlfriend in the world. Agreed. And, but then with that, if I was to say anything, I'd either not say anything or I'd just say, you know, I think it's really great. Everyone has a right to tell their story, to write their memoir. It's not how I remember it. These are not the way I remember the conversations, but, you know, she's so successful and so am I. And we shared a chapter of our lives together and it just like a marriage. It didn't last forever. Yeah. That's what I would say. I think that we're, I don't see anything wrong with that kind of a response. I think it will ultimately come down to what are the types of things that are included. Yeah. If it's like he, he said, she said kind of arguments. Yeah. If Alex enters that chat, like nobody's ever going to win because you're going to take the side of whether you like better. Right. But if there's any sort of strong allegations or, you know, she did X or Y that would actually cause any sort of reputational damage to Alex, then I do think a response to your point of sort of taking the high road of just acknowledging the time. Like it was good while it lasted. I still respect you. I think you have every right to be a creative and like speak your mind and do your thing and just leave it there because it'll. I just, I think it's also just like, I think this is a fascinating subject of adult female relationships that don't last, which is like why the housewives franchise and why women are just women are more interested in knowing why a long term girlfriend friendship broke up than why you left your husband. Like it is more interesting because it's like, well, because you weren't fucking that then you should have been able to stay friends forever. Like sisters. It's a really good point. And it's like, but if it's a father of your three kids, women are like, kick him to the curb. Who cares? You know, they're not going, no, you should make this work. I know they're like, no, he's awful. But if it's a friend, it's like, well, yeah, could you and just sometimes it's mutual and sometimes it's just like. I, I look fondly on the time we spent together, but I maybe don't miss you in my life day to day, you know, or I do. Like it will be interesting if, if how intimate she gets on her feelings. Like does she say, yeah, I saw the photos of Alex's wedding and yeah, yeah, it made me sad not to be there. It made me not like those type of things where you're like, I wouldn't expect to be, I'm fine where I am. But when I see it, does it, and I see, oh, in the corner is, you know, a mutual friend of ours and we used to fucking laugh at our 800 square foot apartment. And, you know, wonder if we were ever going to make it. Like, I think that's where it's like intriguing. And I hope, I hope when the book comes out, if she just got the deal, meaning I don't know if she's written in or not. But I hope if she listens to this, I think those are the things that people want to like hear the most and we'll make it the most exciting. We'll make it the most successful book. She did say she was like, it took me this long because I had to like let go of a lot of ego to like face this, I think from a perspective of. And time really does heal all wounds. And yes, and there's, you know, that's why people like don't send that email to a M. Or that text like maybe write it, maybe think about it, maybe put it in your notes, see how you feel two days later, maybe read it to somebody like, you know. Yeah. I also wonder if it's because, you know, for, for better or worse, there's this always subtext that women. I absolutely think that they should. But you're supposed to lift each other up and you're supposed to like. Yeah, be together and do things together and not harm each other and root for one another and, you know, ignore natural things like jealousy and, you know, and when that's sort of an impossible standard. Yeah. And I think when two women don't end up, you know, or they, they're, their friendship ends up fracturing, you know, for the sake of vulnerabilities and the fact that as women, we know how much when you're close to somebody again, you divulge, you share, you, you know. Explore certain things that you wouldn't necessarily do that when there's a break, it has to feel a little bit like betrayal. Yeah. And I think as, as consumers or of people that we, when we watch and we love friendships together, we sort of feel betrayed by the break as well. Yeah. Because we want to believe that like, no friendships like that actually they, they can work, they should work. So you kind of are, it leaves you curious as to what went wrong. Yeah. And so, and you may never, you know, so it's like, I think people will be definitely excited to write. And then of course that won't be the whole book, but unfortunately when people do books like this, you're like, you get the book. And it's like, so my mother came from Italy and my father. And you're like, okay, okay. And then it's like, and then I took the kickball back. And that's when I knew I was a bad ass little girl. And you're like, okay, she's only eight. Keep going. Yeah. Okay. We lost the virginity. Okay. Okay. Now this is getting kind of, okay. Now it's getting too. Then I met Alex and you're like, okay. And then so it's like, I mean, I wrote a memoir and I did have the editor say, let's start it at 18. Yeah. I had like, and I wish I knew where those pages were because they were probably pretty good. And I don't remember what stories they cut, but I was like, I hear you, the book is called, you'll never blue ball in this town again. Let's get to the dating. That's what it should be, you know, no one cares. You know, everyone thinks their own like heritage is super interesting, but it's really not to someone else like what village your grandpa came from. They want. Yeah. They want an exploration into essentially what they know, but not like too deep away from what they care for. So Colton Underwood, the famous bachelor who then eventually came out as a gay man. He was in traders. We are recording this before I see the traders reunion. However, we've seen a scene where he gets upset and leaves and Lisa run is like, oh, you better believe I'm going to talk about it and brings up the fact that he obviously was a weirdo and made his fiancee Cassie from the shows life and nightmare. What is your opinion of him and advice to him in this situation now that it's got brought up again? I mean, the thing is people do forget about this stuff. Yes. And they, the majority of people forget they're like, oh cool. Colton's on traders. He already did a show about like virgins on an island. I don't think it was a big hit, but he's already, he already had his other. So he came out with a companion series about it, about coming out. He then got married and I think they have a child. And then he did this co-hosted the stating thing about like older virgins. And now we got this. So I think people had forgotten. They had accepted that he is a gay married man father who's a cute guy who's a personality and some people are just like, oh, I see that Colton guy. Some people forget that he was ever a bachelor. You just like forget and to this to be brought up in the traders thing first by Michael Rappaport, which then he was criticized for because he was like, if someone can keep a secret. The person who kept their secret or their sexuality for, you know, 20, he didn't say, he never even said that. Someone could keep a secret. I think it's you, which that show is just pointing at everything. And then he took that on and was like, oh, because I lived in pain for 27 years, not truly being myself. You're homophobic. And then people, 99% of the people were on Michael Rappaport's side, though they were happy to see him go because he was annoying. But what do you think about this bubbling up again? And how do you how do you even rectify that situation? I think just to go back to the Lisa part of this, it's like, it's no different than remember when she was like, were people doing coke in your bathroom? Oh, yeah. You know, yeah, that she's, those are her iconic sayings. Yeah. And yes, they're iconic. And I think what she said to him at some point, like, I do think it'll. I mean, it's, it's none of this is a situation to laugh about. But I guess neither is drug use when you're a mother of two kids. Yeah. And like these things have repercussions when you say things like that in the way that they're said in that public form, things do tend to stick. Yeah. I think I will say I, I didn't watch the bachelor. So I was not introduced to him at that point. I did not know about the issue with the woman that he was dating or engaged dating or, I don't know. No, they were engaged. They were engaged. And then she broke up with him and that's when he put the tracker on her car and then she had to get a restraining order and he also harassed her. Sending her horrible texts and her family members texts for a year from anonymous numbers. And then he also was like, I'm getting threatening texts too. And the whole time it was him. So he did like a catfish thing on himself. The only thing that I feel like, which is really fucking weird. Let's just run ourselves. That's weird. But something about this is giving like. I feel like if he could have addressed it like fully and head on back then, I think he did. And that's why he got a full explanation of what happened because I'm sure there's some statement somewhere where he's like, I was going through a time. What happened was we forgave him because everybody knows someone who is gay and couldn't be honest early in their life. So when he is like, this is it. For some reason, everybody just said, well, then we excuse your weird behavior to this girl. And the girl is beautiful. So people aren't like, well, her life sucks. She already met somebody else and got married. So I think people are like, she's fine. So he still did all that. And I guess he had good agents and the show went and people wanted to see it. And I mean, I think he's going to keep getting work. What are you going to do? You just have to say, he probably like, I already addressed it. I think if he did address it, that's fine. I know like at the time when, because I watch Traders religiously, I desperately want to be on the civilian one. Yeah. But I totally get out right away. He, I remember looking it up and I was like, this isn't a full picture, whatever it was or however it was addressed was not like what you would need to do in that situation to sort of like free himself of it. That road was not taken, which in my opinion, just again, from situations that I've been in similar to this, maybe there is some sort of agreement of what he can and cannot talk about or she can. Has she ever spoken up? The girlfriend? I think she's living a pretty private life now. But no, I mean, the story was, I remember it, it was just like, it was, you know, shocking. It was awful. And when it was first happening, we just thought he was a weird, straight guy. He was like stalking his girlfriend who doesn't want to be with him anymore. And then I feel like when we found out he was gay, I feel like women are like so forgiving and supportive of someone. And they're like, Oh, so that's why he acted so awful and was so possessive and weird and scary. And it's like, well, that really shouldn't. Sure, you can forgive people, whatever. But I mean, it's just interesting that like a guy that does that, it's all these passes, more opportunities and everything. But he is cute and he is kind of fun to watch on TV. And so like, I can also see why he keeps getting work. Yeah, I think at the, you know, sometimes with people like, I think Colton, again, there's a likeability about him. I think when people want to like somebody and that person messes up or disappoints, they will, if there is an excuse to be given, they will latch onto it and move on because they like that person. They still want to see them. They want to engage in their world, whatever it is. If somebody does not have that kind of a reputation or is not of interest or has had a really hard time in the media, per se, the opposite will happen, right? Like they will go harder and harder and harder on the hate. That doesn't seem to have happened in this case. Yeah. So I think if he, if he did fully at some point, did address it, just let it go. Yeah. I don't think, I don't think it's worth, you know, I think it's worth, you know, I think he'd be better off finding other mediums and avenues to like showcase more of who he is outside of those things. Yeah. Who he is as a dad, like what is his own personal life like? What are his interests? Things that go beyond just if you know him on traders and you know him for being that kind of a player or you know him from the bachelor. What do you think his future is? Do you think he gets, because where do you go from this? Are we really going to see him hosting another show? I kind of think this might, maybe he will go away kind of. Has he written a book? I think he probably has. Most bachelors have. Yeah. We'll see. Yeah. I don't know. I think he can survive. I think he's done everything he can do, you know, and, but I mean, who knows, you know, someone like this that has this kind of following. Could he have a clothing company? You know, people come with ideas and things. By the way, he can still make a tremendous living just from doing stuff on social media and online. But I will say, the timing of this and with Rena's book coming out and her pissing off a lot of other people and saying, you know, off color things will work to his advantage. Because if she does come for him on that trader stage during a week or two weeks when she's been coming after everybody, I do think they will be from a public's perspective, more leniency towards him. Good. Okay. So this girl, I don't have her name in front of me, but this is the girl who had this HGTV show on all ready to go. And it wasn't her first show and she does, you know, remodeling and everything on HGTV. And while she was filming something, she was, you know, instead of saying, oh shoot, she said, fart the N word. And then she goes, oh my God, why did I say that? Can you please delete that? And the guy goes, well, no, because I've been filming this whole time. So I can't just like stop. And she's like, oh, fuck my life. Then it got out. And once it got out, she said, well, that this person said, I'm going to release it unless you give me money. And I guess she said no. And then he did release it. But then HGTV just completely canceled the whole show. It was like done everything. They were just like, no, which I think, yeah, probably the right corporate decision or network decision to make. All right, what's your advice for her in going forward? Go away. Because I think if in a moment like that, if that word comes to mind, like that would never come to my mind if I mess something up. I'd be like, sorry, can I say that? Yeah, yeah, yeah. But like every other word like would come to mind that that would not like, I don't think in moments of like, I agree. It's in her vocabulary. It's just like the Tourette's guy. Yeah. Tourette's or not. Why? I mean, exactly. I don't know with like Tourette's if it's the same sort of a thing. Like does it just come into your mind or like is it, I don't know enough about it to like understand the process of like thought to work. I don't know. I guess with somebody, I mean, when you listen to unrestricted songs, it's all in those. Of course. So even if you didn't say it, but you had Tourette's maybe then you could say it, but I don't know. But like in, in her instance, I just remember. Oh my God. What was the story of the lady that had like the white hair and she was Southern and she was like a cooking lady. Oh, and she got canceled and she had a couple restaurants. No, that's she didn't have a butter, but her name was like, oh, I know people like screaming in their car. Paula Deen. Yes. She had something like this happen. She was, it was a hot mic or something. Do we know where she's from? I know. Does that make a difference? It doesn't make a difference, but I do think like you're from the South. Would it make it worse or better? Or I don't think I think it means you probably have more work to do. Yeah. Do you know what I mean? Like I think that there are innate, you know, when it comes to issues of like race and racism. Like that's either, you know, there's the conscious version of it where you absolutely know you are and then the unconscious version of it. Right. Who's to say in this case what her situation is, what her background is, if it was acceptable to use that kind of language while she was growing up. So maybe maybe she doesn't use it in her personal life, but she's been around it enough where it came out. It's not acceptable. She needs to go away. She needs to probably educate herself, understand why that word came out of her mouth and revisit it when she can address it. So what would you educate? What do you do to educate someone? Because I remember when Stasi Schroeder got in her situation, which it was not this, but it was a time in 2020 where somebody just kind of like remembered some unsavory things that she had said on podcasts episodes and she'd had her podcast for a very long time. And one was about another cast member who was black and the other one was her being annoyed about the Oscars kind of being so diverse. And I'm just being vague because I don't remember exactly what she said and she's doing great now, but it took a lot of years. And she lost everything. They fired her from the show. Her agent dumped her, her publisher dumped her because at the time she had a second book. Eventually the second book came around, but at that time it was like ready to go and they pulled the deal. They were about to go on a tour for the podcast. You know, ever no one was touring at that time because of COVID, so but that got canceled. And then she didn't come out gay, but she came out pregnant, which I think is maybe the second best thing that could happen. So then people laid off and then she made her way back. She wrote the book, but her one time the person I'm presenting her was like, we'd love to have, I would love to have her have her first interview with you. And of course, like I was thrilled and I was uncovering it. I was kind of, I was understanding of what she was going through and felt bad and was like, just let her have her pregnancy. But he said she did, he goes, she really did go to work. She met with a diversity coach and read these books and everything and really had a better understanding of why she got to that place, why she was in that place of such privilege to feel annoyed. To talk about the things that she did talk about that area like, well, look about, look from this perspective. So in the end, like she's doing amazing and nobody, nobody seems to care, you know, what happened five years ago when they enjoy her hosting a reunion on the Hulu network. So. Well, it's also because she hasn't messed up again. Yes. I feel like that's the difference between somebody releasing a statement that says, I really need to educate myself versus the person that actually does go and educate themselves because just like you said, there had been comments along the way that were on savory. Yeah. That's that same issue seeping through. So unless you go to the root of the problem. Right. And actually like address it as a human being. Yeah. It's going to sneak up and you're going to trip up again. So there was, there was somebody that I was advising during that period where I, I said to them, like I will work with you, but you need to like actually go to school. Like I want you to go to school. I want you to pay for like a class on learning about bias and race and issues. And when you are done with that, then we can revisit this and put a plan forward. Yeah. And their recovery was pretty quick. And they were able to go back after the fact they were able to address it and move on. Yeah. That's just, yeah, that's interesting. Okay. The Beckums, you know, the Beckums have been public people for many years. They have the ultimate sticky daughter-in-law situation. And how do you feel about that whole situation with Brooklyn and Nicola. Yeah, Nicola. Nicola. I think it's a similar type of thing where, you know, not so different to necessarily Alex Cooper or even, you know, the Duchess of Sussex at one point, which is like people come into the situation with a preconceived notion about who they are, whether they've heard something or they've decided. And I think in this case with Nicola, she's never really been that, you know, beloved. I think the beloved family was, is the Beckums. And I think for people sometimes when there's somebody that gets to marry into a situation like that, even though she's, of course, wealthy beyond means, but like the fame and like they are an iconic family. They are a part of like, you know, there's that guys pop culture. Yeah. There's a legacy there, right? Beyond just being on whatever track she was on that I think from the get go kind of did not set her up. Again, if you don't tell, if you're not able to tell your own story, like other people will do it for you. Right. And so she, she had never really addressed who she was separate from him. I think she was trying to act. Yeah. So then when you come into a situation like this and there's sort of no barometer on who you are, it's really easy to pick apart somebody during a time like this. Yeah. The other part of this is like, you know, when things are relatable and I think everybody knows somebody that has either married, dated, experienced, experimented with somebody that their family or friends did not like. Right. And so when you get that vibe, if you've been on the other side where you have not liked somebody that somebody close to you has been with, you're more likely emotionally to side with the side that's struggling with it and struggling with that person. So it already puts her like kind of in an odd position. Yeah. Even though like I have a daughter and two boys, I always think I've always thought of it more like you don't like the husband of your daughter, you know. Yeah. Well, no one's ever good enough. Right. I feel like there's that. And I've always, but I've always remembered one time Chris Jenner when I the first time I was like hearing about earlier, earlier on before they had ever had a show and we were friendly and I was like, wait, Kim got married at 18 to this like older guy. He was like in his 30s. Had four kids. Yeah. And met him and got married, you know, in Vegas or something at 18. And I was like, Oh my God, like how did you deal with that to Chris? And she just said, um, well, I embraced him and I, you know, included them in everything. And she didn't say this part, but I realized why it was smart. It was like, you know, you got to be remain being there because then once it doesn't work out. God forbid he's abusive or something or cheat on her and she wants out. She still go really good relationship with you. So she can go to your house. And if it's like, if you're with that piece of trash, I'm not talking to you. Then they're so embarrassed. Then the isolation starts and they're so embarrassed that they might stay. And I think even with a guy, it's really hard as the mom because you're just like, okay, like this woman hates me and I don't know what to do. And he's my son. And again, I just think you have to be the bigger person and you have to continue to invite him or, you know, I think that's absolutely. I mean, I had to keep doing it. And be like, it's my birthday. Do you think you can meet me for lunch? And you know, no, no, no, and you know, what are you going to do? And then you just have to know for your own soul as a parent, like I tried. I texted, you know, four times a year, no matter what, no matter how many years went. I sent a card, da, da, da, da. But I also get out of a certain point as a parent, you're like, all right, I'm, you're an adult too. So like, if you don't want to mess with me, like I'm not going to keep putting my heart on the soul. But the chances of someone who gets married at 22 years old or whatever he was actually staying married forever is very low. So I'm like, I think eventually they'll break up. Yeah. And you don't want to have too much time pass with your son. Yeah, I think, by the way, you're even just from, I'll say personal experience, you're 100% right. I think when you, that, that isolation piece is so key because it, it, it ends up creating this like it's an us against the world dynamic. Right. And then what usually ends up happening is then one person after being in that bubble starts to decide like, maybe I actually want to see what the world is like. Yeah. And then the other person's like, no, no, no, stay in this with me. It's just us. And then that's usually where like the friction starts to begin. Yeah. I think in, in dynamics like this. But I, I think, you know, for those two, I haven't understood why at least I, I totally get wanting to express yourself and, and share what you're going through. That's, that's something I think all people want, whether you're famous or you're not. But what the purpose and the timing was for them to put out that statement now, when there have been rumors for years now that something is off in the dynamic. I think, you know, one thing that I would have advised against in a statement like that is the pointing of the fingers with specific examples. Oh, you mean like with that, how they said about the wedding and the dog and the, because the dog that they had asked, I think her to either house some puppies after the fire or donate. They asked Victoria Victoria and she never responded or didn't engage. I think people, you know, as much as it's interesting to read and see all the memes and like every, like that was a joyful week on the internet in a lot of ways, but like at least for not, certainly not for them. Um, that like you, when you do that, you open up a whole new can of worms. And the focus then becomes on like, well, did that happen? Like they found the DJ that did the wedding to like ask, he's like on the today show or something being like this is let me set it straight. Right. I wondered about that DJ thing. I thought maybe I think that the Beckham's like said, can you go do these interviews because I think he came off. It was good for the Beckham's cause he was like, didn't he say that like, I think he actually said it was like weird. Oh no, then. Okay. Like I feel like somebody must have given their approval for him to go because why would you jeopardize being the person that's the DJ that's telling the secrets? Well, at the same time, you're, you know, not forgetting who her side of the family is. The billionaire side. Yeah, there could be. He may never have to DJ again. That's what I'm thinking to to keep the story because then it was like, we were hearing like, no, it was Mark Anthony who said it. And it was a salsa or something that would say put your hands on the hips. And then we also heard, no, they already had their first dance. Yeah. They weren't, this was not the first dance and like, and people didn't have their phones because it was a big high profile wedding. So yeah. And then also just that like, you know, they're rich, but the parents family is richer and they don't have to do, you know, supposedly get a million dollars a month. They don't really have to do anything ever again. So why not just, I don't know what this afforded them. This is what I think. I think again, you're in the relationship with the person that's set to isolate you. It becomes, I just don't want to fight. So if I bring up my mom or if I go to see my mom, you are mad at me for a week. You mentally torture me. You give me the silent treatment. Fine. I won't go to the lunch. And that's what happens. Like, I mean, yeah, the more common dynamic is, is a man doing it to a woman where she's like, I want to see my friends. No, I hate all your friends. Right. Okay. Well, I want to see my sister and then he finds something that, you know, he doesn't like about the sister anymore. And then if you get caught lying, then he's like, you've lied, you saw your son. You're like, fine. I won't see my son. And that's the next thing you know. Now you're being hit and you have no one to call. Correct. Yeah. And like, if it maybe it was some sort of declaration to her, like I am, I am yours behind the scenes and privately and now I'm making it public. But we, we've sort of seen this scenario play out before and it has not. It hasn't, you know, necessarily, I don't think anybody would say like that was a slam dunk. Right. Like it didn't come with a lot of repercussions. So again, like I don't know what the point of it was. And I think without that intention, it's hard to kind of feel badly for them, especially because they're incredibly privileged. And they do both have parents that are healthy and like, like, how bad, like, you know what I mean? Like how bad is it beyond just maybe not fully embracing one another. Yeah. I will say though, like there are certain times and like my team always will like, they'll know because I'll usually like end up like on the floor because I think it's like the best response ever. What David did when he was asked. Which was what he was sort of like, he was at some other event, I think maybe Davos and he said, children are allowed to make mistakes. And I think he said, such errors are part of learning and that parents sometimes have to let that happen. Yeah. And I was sort of like, That is a great response. That's like dead in the what we're unfazed, we're unbothered. We're not going to pick apart what he said and we're not going to try to get the audience on our side when it's an internal family problem. Really? Like no notes, genius. Great. You know, Prince Andrews been a big problem for years for the Royals since like 2017 when this photo came out with Gillian Maxwell and of course Virginia who has since passed, but she really was the person who wrote the book and told all about it. He said, I never, this photo is photoshopped. I said, oh, I never went to that nightclub. I knew and she said he was sweating all over many said I had a disease that caused me not to sweat. And, you know, he did that BBC interview, which was shocking. And is in your knowledge, did he have, did he just go do that rogue or did they add you think the Royal publicist or whoever told him to do that he could do that interview. I remember I saw it. There was, I think there's a document. No, it's not a documentary, but it's, it's, um, maybe a movie or a series on Netflix where they like went into it. If I recall properly, I think he ended up pushing it like he was advised against doing it and ultimately was like the one that was like, no, I'm doing it. I can do it. I can pull this off. Okay. So with, with this now he's been arrested. Um, does this reflect horribly on the Royal family? I don't, I think it. I think once this came out six years ago, the damage was done. And now at this point you're like, yeah, if he has to go to prison, whatever, let him go. Um, obviously, you know, he is in the Royal family. It's just there's a little bit of question, like if they're going to find anything else, how any Royals were ever implicated, but it doesn't seem like they are. I don't, I don't think so. I do, you know, what's unfortunate about it is now that it's gotten this far, I think, you know, everybody's, you know, everybody knew how much, uh, Her Majesty the Queen loved Andrew. It's her son, of course, like, um, and it definitely seemed like at some point, whether it's King Charles or the palace or whomever was made aware that some more shit was about to go down. Yeah. Because that's when all of a sudden now he's, we're taking his title away. Yeah. And we're putting, we're taking his residence away and we're taking security away when the entire time up until that point, he had all of those things. And the kids are King Charles, Princess Anne, then Andrew, and then like Edwin, Edward, and then Andrews the youngest. I actually don't know. But those are the four. Yeah, those are the four. And the other Edwin or Edward, whatever, whatever he's doing, he's just sort of, he doesn't do anything wrong, but he doesn't, he's not, you know, a juicy topic. Um, and he's so far down the line that, you know, we're really madder. But I think it's good in the time since obviously, you know, the difference once, you know, King Charles became King Charles, and then was clearly briefed about all of this. I think he did do the right things by removing that at a time before the public got to know everything and all this new information, rather than doing it right now would seem like, how did you not know? Even though they don't have power, like as far as like with the country, it is, I mean, you know, in a hundred years, if this is made into whatever form of movie and TV is, it is pretty juicy. Like I wonder, is the crown done? I mean, or could there be another season of the crown that brings us up to this time where he's being, you know, taken of? I mean, that would be pretty good. I feel like this, I feel like the crown got us so far. Yeah. I feel like there's a whole another series waiting for this last past chapter into that includes this and, you know, obviously other transitions, etc. And potentially as William and Kate obviously ascend a bit higher, but this is, you know, at the end of the day, like there's always a bad apple. You know what I mean? I mean, talk about the ultimate bad apple. This is like the, you know, this is, I would say, rotten. Because like, you know, there's that photo of Epstein and Gillain on the porch of that, like frogs, whatever, there's some house of theirs, what's it called? Was it at Frogmore? Yeah, it's at Frogmore. They're clearly on the porch of that. So like they were there, they have, you know, there's now it could have been, they just had a tea, you know, who knows. But I think that's where it's like, oh my God, you know, if anything more nefarious happened, like on the actual royal property, that would be a lot. So we'll see, we'll see what happens with him. Okay, John and Caroline, Caroline Vissette, we're watching the show Love Story. During that time, you were a young girl, so you were not in the position you are today. But I thought it'd be kind of fun to do like a hypothetical when they were in the news all the time and their arguments got caught on tape and people were, you know, trying to say, are you going to have a baby? Is someone cheating? She's a bitch. You know, all the articles all the time because we were so obsessed with their style and who they were. How do you, I mean, what is your opinion of that? I hear you are this girl that, you know, didn't was not a thirst bucket. Yeah. Yeah. I, well, first I'll say it's interesting because I, again, I remember the day that that plane crashed. So I, and I remember the significance of the two of them. More so him. But, you know, I think for her in wanting to maintain a more private life, which I understand, I don't think there was ever an opportunity or an interview or a lot of times where she was sort of able to say like, this is who I am. And as a result, the mystique around her and the not knowing created a much larger circle. They said there's very little audio of her voice at all. Yeah. And, and look, I mean, it's even hard. I think in the show, it's, it's a lot of us besides seeing a photo of her. Yeah. It's our first time kind of understanding maybe who she is or who she was. And, and what's interesting is like, at least for me in my perspective, how, how the show is defining her is sort of different than how I envisioned her in my mind. I didn't know that she was as, you know, if, if they're doing a perfect portrayal as sort of like confident and suave as she was. Like I kind of always thought she was more. I mean, according to Carol Radzell, well, she really was like the most confident girl she ever met. Yeah. Um, like that doesn't necessarily come through in the photos. I think you can see she's sort of always positioned and looks to him with a lot of admiration or she's showing a lot of joy and expression on her face that this was like truly, you know, a love story for them. And maybe she did not want to allow any more, um, any more intrigue into their life. But I think by not doing that, you kind of cause a bigger, you know, a bigger commotion around yourself. Yeah. Because it's, it's so not acceptable. It's so, I mean, not acceptable. It's so inaccessible and it's so exclusive. It was such a different time because I'm like, you know, it'd be so weird now if a girl that looked like her and lived in New York in 2026, didn't have an Instagram account and wasn't doing get, get ready with me and things. Um, and then she just didn't really want that life and didn't like it. But maybe that's because it wasn't on her. Maybe that time of where the paparazzi would follow you around and write stories about you. I'm thinking that probably was much harder life than just being able to put it out all yourself. Because, I mean, truly, I think Instagram and, you know, doing your own social media is what killed that whole industry of, of magazines. Because people are able to say, you know, how they feel about things, what they're doing, what they're saying. Well, you can see them. Like now we see new photos. Like I remember I used to like go to my mom's office and like I couldn't wait if she had like an us weekly or people to see like, what is Mary Kate wearing? Like now it's no problem. Well, actually they, they're still kind of exclusive, but like, yeah, they don't have Instagrams. They're kind of off the grid. Again, there's a lot of, I'd say that they're way more papped than other celebrities that are on social media and are, you know, sharing more of themselves. I wonder if that's going to be like a sign of like true status in, in a little bit where it's like, I don't have to be online. Correct. I think it, I think in a way it is. I think it is kind of coming to that point. Like it's quiet luxury. It's like that. I don't need to post about my yacht. I don't need to film every little thing I do. I don't need the public to say how great I am. I don't like, I'm so confident I need, don't, cause I'm always just like, you know, when I even when I see like a Britney Spears taking to the, you know, foyer again. I'm like, she must get something by seeing that a hundred thousand people liked it and, you know, 50,000 shared it. Even though she cut off the comments, it's like she needs that little drug, you know, she needs that bump of like, okay, people are looking and talking about me. And I think it does say a lot when a pretty girl is just that like, like, I wonder if like old school socialites will come back into play. Yeah. And that they are not accessible that you cannot follow them. Yeah. But it'll be, I don't know. I think that it's so saturated and with the AI and everything, I feel like there is going to be some wave that's going to start to emerge in the next couple of years. That's like, maybe not the alpha generation, which is after Z, but like the betas, like I wonder if like those parents are not going to be all about the iPad in front of their kids face all the time and are like, yeah, you know, they seem to be more protective of their kids and like, I feel like that generation might be different and might be like, no, there's that world and then there's the real world that isn't being chronic chronicled, whatever. No, I certainly agree with that. Yeah. But I do, I do think, and I think I said this earlier, it's like if you don't tell your story, somebody else will. Right. And that's exactly what is happening. Right. And I think that's like this show and how this is playing out, especially for a generation that did not like was not alive when, when they were around. Yeah. This is like their first, you know, for a and did have like where she was like, sure, I'll go on the today's show with you and things like that. Then we would have like seen their funny dynamic and maybe you're right. Maybe if there wasn't such a mystery, maybe they wouldn't have been as hounded. Yeah. Because I do feel like with other famous couples that were mysterious at one time and like the, you know, like the Royals who then moved to America and stuff. The interest has died down as far as like, what are they doing? Where are they going? What is she wearing? Because they, she does have Instagram and they, they did have a TV show. And so I feel like that's probably good for them or maybe not, but definitely it's like the hunger is not what it was five years ago to just, just get any glimpse into this mysterious life. And I don't think it ever has to be or in their case, especially like, I think it would have still made sense if it was just like one thing. Yeah. You know, maybe it was one beautiful interview that they even did together or something. It doesn't have to be all that like, and now I'm on the cover of this magazine and I'm doing this and like a full blown campaign. She doesn't need to justify her existence. She's accomplished. She's beautiful. He loves her and she loves him that like, that's sort of enough. But I think there's, there's this sort of notion amongst people. It's like, if you're not willing to show us who you are, then like also, what are you hiding? Yeah. Which again, like pushes the intrigue. Right. Right. Um, okay. Last one we're talking about. I'm going to talk about army hammer. That was an interesting time when, especially now with the Epstein files of cannibalism and that he wrote girls that he was cheating on his wife with things like, I want to take out your rib and barbecue and eat it and all that. And then, but then what it really all came out and they did the documentary, which by the way, by the time that doc came out, I felt like people were over the story. And also it's. In his defense, it sounded like, well, he was into the, you know, 50 shades of gray kind of thing. And these girls participated and yeah, probably fucked them up. Fucked them up who wouldn't. But they didn't get a lot of sympathy. And again, the interest had waned. Now he is doing a podcast like the rest of us. And his mom too. She has her own or she's just a guest on it all the time. And her mom, it was just, I think announced her mom now has a podcast or his mom, his mom has a podcast where she will be interviewing men who have been canceled. Okay. All right. Yeah. I was really into this story. I had his aunt on who'd written this book years prior. I remember that actually. And, um, but then like, like everybody else, that's kind of like, well, okay. Yeah. Here's your podcast. And I think he's doing okay. I don't know. I personally don't think eventually sure he might be acting again in something. He'll never be at that movie star like status that he was because he's older and there's other people now that have been, you know, that are just as hot and everything. And it seemed like a lot of the things that he was getting were, were kind of duds after his initial like, um, thing with Timothy Chalamet and, but he kept getting these parts because he like was good looking. And then when this whole thing happened and he essentially like got canceled. I don't know. Like what do you, what is your prediction of him? I feel like people don't care. I don't think people care, but I also don't necessarily want anymore. I don't want anymore either, but I also feel like that was such a big cancellation. That was such a crazy thing. And again, it was that, that weird COVID time that people were just like thirsty for anything to like latch on and get obsessed with. And, but now I, I'm like, yeah, I just, it's so weird that after a few years you're like, Oh, remember that whole thing about R.B. Hammer? Like what did you eat? Girls ribs. And he just was like, yeah, I was a cheater and I was fucked up. And I wrote six shit to girls that I was cheating on my wife with. And you're just like, okay. Yeah. I don't know. I mean, it also takes so much today for anybody to be a movie star, especially like having to kind of start over and having this. I mean, like, I feel like Glenn Powell has been like in the running and like the closest thing we've had to sort of like that mold of an old school movie star. And even still, it's not like guaranteed box office success. So like for him, for people to want to take a risk on him from a creative standpoint, I think is going to be really tough. Right. I think he might have done one or two things that like did not rise to the level. Yeah. But, you know, maybe he can, he could just be a podcast or podcast or life. Again, maybe sometime like in, he may have this amazing personality that we don't know about. Yeah. Because we only know him to be an actor and like maybe an on and off cannibal, you know what I mean? Like, but like we don't know. Yeah. We don't know yet. If he gives people a reason to like care for a different reason, then maybe there's a chance. Well, I'm so glad that you came on Juicy Scoop and just gave us your really unique and professional perspective on these topics that just consume our conversations. So thank you so much for coming. Thank you for having me. It was so fun. Thank you. And everybody go to HeatherRickTownnell.net. 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