you're listening to miller and molten coming at you from the floor meister studios floor meisters keeping it real and now here's mark miller and david molten our two of miller and on this thursday final one of february thanks so much for being with us john ferrato who's in Bradenton covering the Pirates. He will join us coming up in about 35 minutes, an hour away from talking pucks with the former puck daddy, Greg Wyszynski. So there's a couple stories that I know you want to get into. All right. I'd like to combine one with another. It's both college football, but you're into this oversight committee and what they recommended yesterday in which I got to admit, if they got the onions to go through with this, well, this is going to end one kind of tampering. Well, it's got to. You know, David, when you're talking 20% of the football budget, aren't football budgets for some of these schools in the area of $100 million? Okay, I'm curious what they consider the budget. Are you considering what you're just paying on payroll, like for your players? No, if it's your budget, that's not just your NIL. No, then for a bunch of big schools, we're talking nine figures. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Uh-huh. Right, 20%. First off, how many universities can cut that check? hell even if it's just payroll David if it's NIL for any school that's involved it's 30 million you know and this all started I guess started a little bit when Dabo went nuts about losing the player that was the first upheaval if you will people talked about it people were angry about it but Dabo went scorched earth well I mean this is I think is a moment though for all the people in the sport this is it do you want to put restrictions on yourselves that hey hey hey yeah i know it's the wild west but it can't be the wild wild wild wild west all right come on now and so you can't grab a kid from a school if he ain't even in the portal i mean can we at least start there and what dabble was upset about is that kid they got out of the portal enrolled Golden Clemson was taking classes and then decided to go somewhere else. Right. I think Ole Miss. Yes. Okay. So that's one thing. You said you wanted to combine two. So I interrupted you. I apologize. No, no, no. But I want people to fully understand what the oversight committee recommended to be passed in April when they sit down and have one of those big conventions. they want if you take a kid off another school who's not in the portal your head coach is suspended for six games by the way no coaching of any kind not like he can coach him sunday through friday and just miss the games no no no no no go home hand in your phone we'll call you on Columbus Day. Oh, yeah, the school gets fined 20% of the football budget. That's what Mark was alluding to. That's a fine. Oh, yeah, next year? Yeah, you lose five roster spots. No ifs, ands, or buts about it. Don't know what to tell you. You cheated. So that's the one penalty. Okay. So, Mark, there's this thing called irony. I think we're all aware of it by now. So, Mark, who was pressuring the SEC a lot to, hey, you guys got to play nine conference games. We've been playing nine conference games for a long time. You guys got to start playing nine conference games. Well, it was the Big Ten, and then Sankey jumped on board. Right. Uh-huh. and Sankey then went so far as to say, well, okay, and you guys have been scheduling, you know, you guys have had good schedules over the years. You guys have had no problem scheduling non-conference games that are good. We'll make sure we continue to do that as well. I mean, we got Florida and Georgia and South Carolina, you know, that they play their rival, so that counts, but we'll make sure every school plays at least one Power 4 non-conference game. Mark, next year there will be seven, I believe. Hold on. I'm sorry. Nine. Nine Power 4 schools who will not play a Power 4 non-conference opponent. Nine. They are Arizona, Houston, Kansas State, Texas Tech, all from the Big 12. And then there is Indiana, Nebraska, Penn State, USC, and Washington, all from the Big 10. So five of the nine schools that will not have a non-conference game with any meat on the bone. Five out of the Big Ten, four out of the Big 12. You know the two conferences. Yes, okay, I got you. I'm with you. Who hoodwinked the SEC and the ACC to go from eight to nine, and then both those conferences made sure that all their schools will play at least one really good non-conference. conference game. Right. And in the last three champions in college football, have all been from the big 10 and none of them played a power four team on their schedule. Ohio state, Michigan, Indiana did not play a power four team in the years that they won their national titles. Yep. So, I mean, look at until the committee penalizes teams for not playing our four teams, you're smart to do that. I hate it. I don't like it. But we don't reward teams for playing good schedules. The committee rewards teams for having the most wins. That's what seems to matter. Other than finally, Miami going over Notre Dame because, you know, they beat Notre Dame during the regular season. It's the only time that the committee has used scheduling as a reason not to put a team in the playoff. The only time, David. Well, you know how I feel. All right. We will feel the same way, but you're, you're asking, you're, you're talking, I mean, the, you know, these are two things that I think are both well-deserving of long discussions. We're not even getting into the one about the penalties yet. We're talking about the scheduling and I could talk about that all day because again how many power four schools did ohio state play when they won their natty that would be zero right non-conference how many how many did michigan play when they won their natty again the answer would be zero right and how many did indiana play last year again that answer is zero yep so you are why wouldn't you and i i thought that was it was the ad at lsu that said why are we playing power for schools what what's the advantage to doing that a loss hurts your chances of getting into the playoffs it doesn't help you it didn't help texas for playing Ohio State at the beginning of the year? Nope. No, it did not. So what is the point? And, you know, until they put a rule in that these schools have to do it, they're going to continue to schedule a bunch of patsies. Signetti's damn near said as much. Yep. Absolutely. I do think though Sankey needs to publicly humiliate Petiti in the Big Ten. And he should. Yep. They should let base the Big Ten. He's not been afraid to take on anybody publicly with the media. And if I were Sankey at the SEC media days, it would be my number one point when I'm making my state of the league address. Because Sankey kind of goes first. That's how these press shows go. The commissioner the first guy to talk And if I you know if I were Lane Kiffin I do it If I were Kirby Smart I would do it and I might even tell if I Sankey I might tell the coaches I might tell Kirby get the same guy that you got to write for you for the spur of your benefit to attack the big 10 with the same tongue-in-cheek approach quick sidebar I didn't catch that Fulmer line because he was there too Fulmer walked up to the mic and he said I had two bits of material depending on how the night was going to go and he goes this was my quiet polite one and he tucks it in his thing and he goes yeah I can use this stuff right over here that was a terrific event. We need so much more of that in college football. That was fun. Guys let their hair down. They allowed themselves to be made fun of. They made fun of others and no one took it seriously. No. You know the opposite of the way the media is approaching the U.S. hockey team. They're either great guys or they're the biggest pieces of dirt on earth you know, for going to the White House. You hypocrites. All of you. Oberman, the whole Levitard show. I'm sorry. It's a joke. Get over yourselves. You may not like the guy. They might. Yeah, or they may not. Or they may just say, I'm 22. First off, to me, when you're in it, and I guess I'm guilty of this right now, but when you're in your 50s and 60s, attacking 22-year-olds for going to the White House, I think you need to think back 40 years prior and think how you would have felt then. Were you that self-righteous at 22? Because most of us weren't. By the way, I would encourage everybody to catch Seth Everett on our show yesterday. And Seth is not a fan of the occupant of the White House. All right. And he went on a vigorous defense of the hockey players and what they said and how they handled it and what they did. And that people are his estimation are just overreacting and losing their mind. By the way, for those attacking the Hughes brothers, that's rich. Their mother was part of the U.S. women's hockey team. And she made the decision to have a family instead of pursue her Olympic dream. Grotesque, absolutely grotesque, but we, I need more time to get into this whole, you know, we, I want to, you got the schedule going on. I love talking about that. I really think it is worth getting into this fine system that's going on in college football, because how they approach this is the future of the sport. Well, you have to. And David, are they going to actually do this, or is Rutgers in real trouble? Miller and Moulton. You're listening to Miller and Moulton. And now, here's Mark Miller and David Moulton. a little over 15 minutes away from talking with John Parado and Bradenton covers the Pirates are they a sneaky team are they this year's Reds they've got are the Reds this year's Reds oh but Pirates have pitching obviously they went out and got three bats apparently the best prospect in baseball is 19 years old and part of the pirates organization i play shortstop just saying are the pirates a sneaky team man i hope so i i would love just you know since i've now you know 15 years i've been with my pittsburgh wife right not really been good that entire time. I would love, and we've been to a game. The ballpark is amazing. It is. It's gorgeous. One of the best ballparks I've ever been to. And I've not been to a lot, so you can throw yours up that you like better. I get it. But that ballpark's spectacular. Yep. And I would just love to see a summer for those fans because they have nothing else there. They're not doing anything else. When you go to the liquor store in Pittsburgh, the Pirates game's on the radio when you walk in. I mean, they're all in. They don't go the way they used to because they're not good, but they pay attention. So it would be great to see. But all right, we just talked about the scheduling in the NCAA. The other big news is the committee talking about sanctions for schools who tamper. Now, Darren Heitner a couple of days ago, This was before this came out of what the penalties would be. 20% of your budget, five roster spots, a six-game suspension for the coach. These are big, big numbers. But Heitner had put out a post, David, and he said the NCAA should reconsider its approach to pursue significant penalties for tampering violations. It has no good options. The options, and he lists three. selectively punish a handful of schools to make an example to go scorched earth on every power conference program none of which are clean now heitner represents a lot of athletes that are playing college football i i do trust him when he says none of which are clean i think we all do yeah i mean you do david right they're all yes and he says quietly let the status quo continue This is the only realistic outcome. And his point is NFL agents and teams are constantly talking before the legal tampering window opens. The NFL tolerates it because the alternative, punishing everybody, would be far worse than looking the other way. The NCAA is in the same boat. Tampering is so widespread that meaningful enforcement would implicate nearly every major program. Selectively going after a few schools would be arbitrary and invite legal challenges. The NCAA already knows how that goes. Going after the violators would cause the whole association to crumble. Do you agree that keeping the status quo and looking the other way is the wisest decision? No, no. Listen, we both have been on record for a long time. We were on record before the decade started. We were on record for trying what we have now. We were in favor of chaos. We were in favor of the Wild West. We knew it would take three to five years to figure some things out and rein it in. But we felt the players needed to be paid. Now, I don't think we thought, to be honest, that they were going to get paid this much as soon. But we thought enough already with the facade. It's not amateur athletics. These guys and gals deserve checks. Now, we need to rein it in. Okay? They're still going to get paid. So, are you in favor of these sanctions? Yeah. These are some big sanctions, David. But, Mark, come on, with all due respect, this is not – this is a little bitty rule. Think about all they're saying is, hey, you can't recruit a guy until he's in the portal. That's all. So you say to the kid, even if the kid's agent calls you and says, hey, I think my kid would like you say, well, then he's got to put his name in the portal. Because I can't pay this fine. Because I do agree with Heitner in this regard. I believe everybody's doing it. I also believe that there's no way that the NCAA will go after every single power for school. They'll pick and choose which ones they want to go after. Rutgers, you're in trouble. Minnesota, look out. Vanderbilt, maybe. South Carolina, you're done. But Georgia, Alabama, LSU, Florida, you're fine. Michigan, Ohio State, Notre Dame, you're fine too. Don't worry. We're not going to take our brands away. We need our brands. You're making me laugh. I'm thinking of the old Tarkanian line when he says, man, the NCAA is so honked off in Kentucky, they just handed Cleveland State two years of probation. You got that right. That's what's going to happen. Tell me I'm wrong, David. No, but listen, if you're running the athletic department, I'm sorry, you can't take the risk. It's too big a penalty. Okay. And then you're going to have to prove it. you're going to have to prove there was tampering. And I think that's difficult to do. You going to have to prove that an agent had contact with a school or a specific athlete when an agent could be representing 10 guys All you have to do is grab the kid cell phone The kid not making the call I understand but eventually somebody from the tampering school is going to talk to the kid. Now, initially, you're right. It's going to be between the agent and the school, but eventually somebody from the school is going to talk to the kid. It's real simple. Just put your name in the portal. By the way, you can go back. So let me ask you this. We'll take you back, but put your name in the portal. That's it. Let me ask you this, then. The incident with the player, and I don't know where he started, so excuse me here, but the kid that went to Clemson and ended up going to Ole Miss, he was in the portal. He signs with Clemson. Then decides to sign with Ole Miss because he was getting more money. He was in the portal. That's tampering. Well, but I don't think the kid, when he was in the portal, but then didn't he sign with Clemson? He was enrolled in Clemson. Okay, right. So he was no longer in the portal. He's transferred. He transferred to Clemson. If he wanted to go to Ole Miss, doesn't he have to get up, leave Clemson, and go back in the portal? The other thing is that there's a designated period of time for you to put your name in the portal. I mean, but once again, I'm in favor of how many times, like in one year, Mark, do you get to three times? Do you get the transfer? I'm in the portal. Do you get to go to Clemson? Then do you get to leave Clemson, go back in the portal, go to Ole Miss, leave Ole Miss, get back in the portal, go to Texas Tech? David, no, I don't think you should. I just, David, in theory, you're right. You are. I just see the NCAA doing what they've always done and be selective in who they punish and who they do not punish. I don't trust the NCAA to do anything right. Mark, that's fine. And neither do I. Nobody should. Okay, they're incompetent at 90% of what they do. I think, though, that there are schools out there who would turn other schools in. Dabo did it. He did it. He publicly did it. I think there are 30 Dabos. Easy. And, Mark, there could be 70 because all the group of five schools, they're losing their rosters, getting gutted. Okay? You don't think they want to stop the tampering? I'm telling you, I think people may turn other people in. Back in the day, they used to pick up a phone and they'd call that school and go, I know what you're doing. If you don't stop, I'm going to go public. And they would back off a recruit. Right, because they were the only ones that were allowed to, you know, Ohio State and Michigan were the only ones allowed to pay that recruit. or anybody else in the Big Ten couldn't, or they would get bee slapped so bad that they would be sent back to 2-10. Well, you know, the legend has it. Spurrier picked up the phone a few times and called head coaches and went, you need to back off so-and-so. Okay? Otherwise, and the school's backed off. You know, from the group of five standpoint of what you talk about, too, I worry because those kids want to go get paid. They're going to shop themselves around before the portal opens. It's the only way they can guarantee they get money. You're listening to Miller and Moulton. And now here's Mark Miller and David Moulton. 22 minutes till the top of the hour. Greg Wyshynski will join us then. We'll talk a little hockey. Scott Lewis to join us an hour from now. We'll talk a little bears. Hoping to catch up here in the next couple of moments with John Carado. He covers the Pittsburgh sports scene, and that includes the Pirates, and they're an interesting team to talk about. Either that or Miller and Moulton are just being a little too goobery, which, goodness knows, is always possible. David, do you need me for the Bears interview? i don't i am telling you there is no one in chicago that cares more about where the bears moved than david moulton nobody i have to admit i am coming off as if that was my childhood team well and i and you did a great job of pointing out the reasons why the giants moved to new jersey You truly did. But it is funny that you were able to, you know, that many people pointing out that your favorite team is the team that moved states. Joining us now is John Parato. As we mentioned, he covers the Pittsburgh sports scene and he does so for Roundtable. Today, it's Pirates Roundtable. All right. Follow John on X, the letter J, Parato, which is two R's, two T's, the letter J, Parato. John, it's David and Mark. Thanks for doing this, particularly at this hour. How are you? Doing well. How are you? Well, we're doing very well. And just to let you know, Mark is married into a Pittsburgh sports family and has Steelers season tickets. So he has a little fun, the Stores of the Pirates. I love the ballpark. I desperately want them to be relevant again. Maybe we're just guilty of a ton of wishful thinking, John. But is this a sneaky playoff contender all of a sudden? I think so. I mean, I would say fringe playoff contender, but playoff contender. I mean, they went out in the offseason. They actually spent a little money. They went out and got some veteran hitters for a lineup that was just awful last year, last in the league, are unscored. They have good pitching, good young pitching. They added a couple of lefties that throw 100 miles per hour to their bullpen. So the bullpen looks like it can possibly be a strength, I think, depending on the development of a couple of their younger pitchers in the bullpen. And, you know, it's not the toughest division in the world. I've got to believe at some point Milwaukee comes back to the pack a little bit, And the Cubs are the Cubs usually, and you seem to always fall short of expectations. So I think there's a chance. I mean, I was in their camp for a couple of days last weekend, and the optimism seemed real this time. Where other years, you know, I mean, every team's optimistic in spring training and thinks this is going to be a good year. But you can tell when they're just saying that when it's more hopeful than it is where they actually feel this time that they can be competitive. So, you know, where that takes them, we'll see. But I certainly think I'll give them credit for a change. Instead of tearing down their team, they've built it up this past winter. We all know that Skeens is one of the two best pitchers in baseball. You could flip a coin between he and Scoobo right now. But to me, it's Jared Jones. If he becomes the two and lives up to expectations, that seems to be a big key to me. How important is that to you, John? Oh, I think it's a big importance. And, you know, he's coming off the internal brace elbow surgery. It caused him to miss all of last year. I did happen to catch his chance to see him throw a live batting practice one of the two days I was in Bradent. And he looked really good. He was throwing in the 90s, and when he's right, he throws around 97, 98. He was right there, like 96, 97, just a small tick below his normal velocity. He says he feels good. The Pirates are optimistic. May 21st is the one-year anniversary of his surgery. They're hoping that he'll be ready to come back right around then. They put him on the 60-day IL, so he couldn't be activated in May 25th. But they're pretty optimistic that when May 25th comes, he's going to be awfully close to being ready, if not ready. Talking Pirates with John Parato of Pirates Roundtable. Follow him on X, the letter J, Parato, two R's, two T's in Parato. Okay, you know, I'm a Mets fan, and I vividly remember 1984 and 19-year-old Dwight Gooden and Davey Johnson pounding the table saying, we've got to have him on the team opening day. He's good enough now. Connor Griffin, 19 years old, number one prospect in baseball. We can still hear the crack of the bat two days later from those home runs in Fort Myers. are the pirates gonna bring them north i think and here's why and i hate to make a snap judgment just a week not even quite a week into the exhibition games but there's a couple reasons one they say they serious about winning this year and if they serious about winning this year they going to play Connor Griffin at shortstop starting in opening day I mean he certainly the best prospect in baseball right now And from what I've seen, and a lot of times I like to talk to scouts from other teams other than the Pirates to get somewhat of a more objective view of players. And every player that or every scout that I've talked to says this kid's ready. And they think he's ready. So I think if the Pirates are serious, and again, they say they are, I think you've got to put their best lineup on the field. And there's something else that didn't happen that makes me think that he's going to be their everyday shortstop. You know, they have Jared Triolo at third base, but they don't really have a shortstop. They have Nick Gonzalez, who was the second baseman last year. He'd be in line to play shortstop, but he's a very poor defensive player. And I can't imagine if he's not any good at second base, how well he could handle shortstop. And they never went out and got that third baseman so they could move Triolo to shortstop. Or they also didn't go get a stopgap shortstop that would fill the void into whoever Griffin was ready. So that tells me their lack of urgency of getting this infielder on the left side makes them believe that Griffin is ready and he'll be there on opening day. They also got a second base prospect in this term, R. Johnson. Is he going to make the big club? I think it's going to be hard because they've got Brandon Lyle right now and Johnson hasn't played double A. But I tell you what, you look at him, he's not a very big guy. He's only 5'8", but he's solid. he's put together and he was the number four overall pick back in 2022 so they've had high hopes for him and he's kind of had an up and down minor league career but he did finish strong last year at double a altoona so he'll go to andy the triple a team and uh you know they have brandon who they traded for in the offseason from tampa bay and i kind of figure it'll go this way for tomorrow johnson if the pirates don't contend and they clean house with all the guys you know all the guys that they brought in that are going to be free agents again in the off season then i would think tomorrow would get called up in late july and be the second baseman if the pirates are in contention he'll probably spend the whole year a trip away is the fan base by and loud's had health issues david as we've paid attention over the years brandon loud said trouble will stay healthy in Tampa. I mean, that's just another factor there you've got to look at. No question about it. I'll tell you what, though. I think that ballpark suits him if he can stay healthy. John, are the fans buying it? Because obviously fans down on ownership and with good reason, down on the GM and with good reason. Do the fans, are they coming back? Are there any evidence they're buying tickets and that they believe that this year they're legitimate? Well, the people I talk to are mixed. It's almost like a 50-50 split. There are some fans who are very excited and they're happy the Pirates have finally decided to add players to the roster instead of subtract them. So they're optimistic that the Pirates can be pretty good, again, if a few things break their way. Then there are other fans who are so jaundiced by the whole thing here in Pittsburgh, and rightfully so because ownership has been awful for the most part, Bob Nutting, and he really hasn't done anything. I don't think one winner is enough to totally regain all the fans' trust that he's really, really trying to win. And I know there are some fans, you know, I would say half the fans feel that way too, that unless he would have gone out and signed Kyle Tucker, that they wouldn't have believed they were trying to win this year anyway. It was just all window dressing the guys that they got. Really, to give a non-answer and a long-winded non-answer to your question here, it's kind of wait and see for most people. You have some that diehards really believe and the ones that might be diehards that have long been skeptical for kind of taking that wait-and-see approach and see what happens. John, final. I'm sorry, Mark. Obviously, wait-and-see's there, but we know they come. If they start winning, it won't take very long for the ballpark to be full. A 76-and-a-half's the over-under on the betting app that I've got in front of me. You've got to lay a little juice to do it. But if you were a betting man, John, would you play over 76-and-a-half? I think. And I'm the most skeptical person about the Pirates than there is. It's certainly in the media here in Pittsburgh. I think they're good enough to have a winning record. You know, last year, guys, 83 wins in the National League got you in the playoffs. The Reds and the Mets both won 83, and the Reds went on the head-to-head tiebreaker. So it's not a high bar to set. They've only had four winning seasons in the last 33 years. So if they can get to 82 wins, I think they'll make a lot of people here happy. John, thanks for making time for us, particularly at this hour. We really appreciate it. Safe travels if you're headed back to Bradenton. And hopefully we can talk to you in the season. Sounds good. Thanks for having me, guys. I appreciate it. It was nice talking with you. Thank you, John. John Parato has been doing it a long time. One of the best in Pittsburgh. Pirates Roundtable. He also does the Steelers Roundtable. But Pirates Roundtable. John Parato. Follow him on X. The letter J. Parato. two R's, two T's, and two O's for that matter. John Parato joining us talking a little Pirates. You know, if you're a baseball fan, everybody's got one year when their favorite team was young, probably not going to be a contender, and some things came together, and you ended up having one of the most fun summers that you've ever had because you're like, oh, my goodness, we're playing good baseball out of nowhere. And I desperately hope that it's that kind of summer in Pittsburgh. I do, too. They deserve it. It's really and truly a great fan base. We all know how good they are for the Steelers and Pens, but they've won. The Pirates haven't won in so damn long that that summertime, like we said, we can't say it enough. It is a great ballpark. It's got to be a top five, top seven ballpark in the league. It really does. I might be better than that. I was going to say, I don't know how it could be out of the top five. It's gorgeous. Right. I mean, you got San Francisco, which is absolutely beautiful. Pittsburgh's a great stadium. I'd still like to go to Camden and I know it's not what it once was. I mean, I think Cleveland does a really good job. There's some good ballparks out there, but it's tough to say there are many better than what the Pirates have. Right. I mean, you want to throw in the historic ones and put them on top. Okay. But I still think that Pirate Stadium would be in the top five. I really do. It's beautiful. And I could only imagine if, I mean, could you imagine Paul Skeen's pitching in meaningful games, what that joint would be like? And it's, you know, it's also, it's like with the, you know, it's downtown and there's a lot around the ballpark. so you can go down early and you can do a couple bars and restaurants. It's a good scene. It really is. Walking over the Clemente Bridge is awesome. It's a good day to go to the ballpark, and I would love to see the Pirates be a contender. 76 and a half, David. You've got to lay big juice. It's minus 140. But I would be leaning over on that one. Here's my thing, though. I don't think they're a playoff team because I think last year was a bit of a fluke. 83 is a very low number. In the years leading up to last year, you had to be in the upper 80s to make the playoffs. Maybe you could get in at like 86. 83 is really low. The Giants were right around 500. The Diamondbacks were crushed by injuries, and they were just below 500. All right, never mind the Mets falling apart, and they couldn't do it. the Braves and all their injuries finishing below the Marlins in the East. I don't think you're going to make it with 83. I think 87 probably is what you're going to need to get it done. 88 maybe. Yeah, that's what I'm thinking too. And I think that's too big of a climb for the Pirates. No, no, no. But 76 and a half, I'm comfortable going over that. I think they can be an 82, 83 win team. But I'm with you. I don't think that's enough for the postseason. But 82-83 from the Pirates would be enough to get a lot of people in the ballpark. Yes. Yes, it would. Because you're still hanging around in August and September. We watched what Cleveland did last year with their late run. We watched what the Tigers did the year before. If you're hanging around in August, you can get there. Well, and also what John was alluding to, you know, the National League Central could be a lot like the American League Central where, as we've seen in recent years, you could be right around 500 or below 500 in August and get hot and steal the division. So it'd be great to see in Pittsburgh. Miller and Moulton.
