I've spent 25 years honing my craft to be able to do this job. I have promised myself with plenty of meditation, I will live it like that regardless of the outcome. Unfiltered Soccer with Landon and Tim, presented by Volkswagen. Volkswagen has long been a supporter of soccer in America and has proudly been a partner of U.S. soccer for over five years. Welcome to Unfiltered Soccer with Landon and Tim. LD, how are you, bud? Doing great, man. excited for today excited for today we always seem to get uh bigger and better guests each and every time so uh super excited we are joined by olympic gold medal winning um women's super league seven-time women's super league champion and five times so jealous five-time fa cup winner none other than u.s women's national team manager emma hayes thank you emma for joining us this is an absolute honor. The honor is all mine. Honestly, I've spent so much time watching you two play football over the years. I'm so glad you've invited me on to grill you both today. So thanks for having me. Oh, we already know we've got our work cut out for us today. We get that. Thank you. This is awesome. Emma, thank you. Before we start, guys, as always, follow us on social media at Unfiltered Soccer. Subscribe to the show on YouTube. Make sure you follow on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. You can always email Jordan feedback at unfilteredsoccer.com. All right, Emma, let's get right into it. So we just spoke to Aaron Heifetz, who we love, the press officer for the women's national team. He was in LA. What was he doing, Tim? Where was he? He was in front of the Landon Donovan statue. It's actually, it's pretty badass. Emma, I don't know if you know, but I have a statue in LA. Yeah, he sent me a picture of it before I jumped online. It couldn't quite fit in the whole frame so it lost pretty big it was uh i think outsized based on my five foot eight height but anyway uh january camp starting so you guys have games against paraguay on the 24th and chile on the 27th um where are you now i just saw a recent quote where you i'm paraphrasing but you're thinking you're really thinking two years out now and how you plan over the next whatever year and a half or so so what's your mindset going into this camp what are you looking for with the reminder that you don't have any European players and the Gotham players, I believe, are in Spain preparing for the Champions Cup. So what's your mindset now as you go into this camp? I think we are absent about 17 core players from the squad. Wow. So this is an unbelievable opportunity for those that, whether they are players that sit as part of the pool and have been coming regularly, that they build on the work that everybody's been putting in, or whether you are a person coming for the first time, whether you are a prospect, albeit maybe not everybody's for 2027, but for 28 or for 2031, that I think this is an unbelievable opportunity for those players, especially considering that when we did this last year, we went on from this camp last year and seven players directly made their debuts going forward in that year, have become regulars in the group so this is this is a chance that so many players have been working towards so i'm excited for them coaches you always see the good without 17 players yet this is still an opportunity i think that's brilliant um one of your big players i don't know what the country's biggest player world's biggest player trinity rodman um is back with the national team she's had a difficult year for various reasons you've you've mentioned sort of having this maternal instinct when it comes to protecting her can you sort of expand on that and that relationship it's always so interesting with with big time players and coaches yeah I think I've said this so many times I've coached so many players in over 25 years varying different clubs and And what I've learned is when you coach some of the top, top players in the world is that you've got to give the right support to them, particularly in the right times. And I think Trin has really, really needed both the club level and the national team level to really support her to get things right, both on and off the field, because the injury she was having in her back, it just wasn't going to clear up quickly. And it required such an effort from everybody to get it into that place. So it's a new year and one that I know she's super excited about. And I'm just happy she's pain free. And she gets to start the preseason in a really solid place. It's a really interesting point, Lenin, before you jump in. I just sometimes think it gets missed on the outside. When you have the best player and you're bold and you're brash, you look like Superman or Superwoman. and people just think you're invincible. And really what those players still want to be is loved and coddled. And people on the outside completely miss that. So, yeah, that's a really interesting way of dealing with it. Yeah, listen, you have to meet everybody where they're at. Every individual is different. And for someone like Trinity, she's not just a special talent, she's actually a special person. and she's a superb football player. I think her very best is easily one of the top players in the world. But you have to get the foundations right. And as you both know, if you're carrying injury and you're playing even with that, of course you can perform to a certain extent. And yes, you're always carrying things through your career. But I think it was having such a major impact on her that I think taking this time, I think will set her up, I hope, for even more success in the future. Great. Well, she's going to be forever linked now, most likely, just like our pal David Beckham was with what we call the Beckham Rule, which was the designated player rule in Major League Soccer. And now she'll be linked with this new high-impact player rule in NWSL. Just curious, one, your thoughts on it, and then two, are you also involved in that conversation discussion because you i mean you're more agnostic you're you take the players wherever they're playing but i can tell you do care about the league here and you want it to continue to grow because you know the importance for for women's soccer i think when you've been in women's sport your whole life you can't help but take a more like well-rounded view of it because you're always i think i've always had to be involved with building the sport so what do I my starting point is always the same what do I want the best possible conditions for players and I know that that varies from you know club to club league to league but my job I think is always like keep demanding and driving the standard to be able to do that and I think I fortunate enough I could do that for many years as a club coach but but also I think when you take the growth of the women's game, someone like Trinity Rodman, if she were to play outside of US shores, would be one of the highest paid players in the world. And the realities are, I think, the generations before have fought so hard for our ability to not just choose, but to earn fair market value. And I think Trin is in a great position and to be renumerated for what she's worth. And I've said it many times, I want them to play in world-class environments. Ideally, it's in the NWSL. And I want the NWSL to thrive, but I'm not here to make decisions for them. I'm just here to sort of get them to think everything through. So one of the components of the rule, which was really interesting, is it's tied to how many minutes a player plays with the national team. And so I just thinking this through in your mind This puts you I mean you going to play who you going to play based on what you think is best for the team and the player and and their future but there is an element of this that in theory could complicate the way you look at these things right because in in some ways that is impacting their ability to earn money whether they're playing more or less minutes right am i overthinking that or is that i mean the good thing is i'm not thinking about it because i didn't create it it's not my rule it's it's one that uh like i said i've said it the other day i think both the nwsl and the pa will work towards creating whatever that will look like i don't think it's finalized yet but the first thing i would say to the players is look that's not my call that's that's been designed by somebody else and you have to take that up with someone else Like my job is to pick the very best team for the U.S. women's national team, regardless of status, of your contracts or wherever you are. And I think I will outline that from the get go, because I think it's it's you're correct. It's not like it's not the right position to put me or any coach in this position into. And I will just make sure that I do what I always do and pick the very best available team. Right. OK. um so so going back a little bit to you don't really you want your players playing world-class environments and that could be yeah here in america it could be somewhere else if they seek your counsel then and some some players probably don't they have their agents and their families and they make their decisions but if they seek your counsel then it's am i understanding this right you're sort of sort of walking them through and helping them make the decision you're not really dictating where they play no usually i hear from them pretty late on to be honest with you you know it's like they've already gone through some it's like right at the end stage and i always throw it back to them i always say have you thought about this have you thought about that or um how will you feel with in three months time i don't know there's no sun in london and you're missing the son of LA. Have you thought through it? And then I might say things like, oh, you mentioned, you know, these things might be important. Perhaps you need to go back and revisit that. I will always just get them to take their time with the decision and push them. Like most of the time, they'll say things like, this has been my dream. And then I'll say, well, okay, listen, your life, your choices, But as I always say, be informed about it and make sure you you work through some of the things that, you know, are going to crop up along the way in advance of doing it if you can. And most importantly, try to like always leave wherever you're leaving in the best possible way, because you never know you may return. And sometimes I might even say to them, it sounds to me like you don't really want to leave, but there might be a little bit more support you might need. Perhaps you go back to your club and be really clear with them. So it's I feel like I definitely know since I've become a parent, I feel like it feels like quite a parental role more than anything else. And like I said, some some of them will come to me right at the beginning. Some will come right at the end. So, Emma, we have this with the men's national team now coaching a club team and how different it could be from coaching a national team. Well, it is from coaching a national team. So what have you seen the differences and how are you experiencing it? Do you like one more than the other? How are you experiencing it? When you have the players 80% of the time a club and you are having to deal with absolutely everything that comes with that, not just what they do, what's going on for them on the field and off the field. it's much like being a parent. I think when you have the players for 20% of the time at the national team, it feels like being a grandparent where you get to 20, so you have to maximise every minute of them. You often get the best of them as well because they're not bringing all their daily stuff in. It's a break from their parents in many regards. So they're like, oh, my God, this is fabulous. So I feel that because I've experienced both sides now, I've learned you don't get them that often to make it count. Like, be so intentional to make every minute count. And when they come in, I say this to my staff all the time, I don't want to see you sat behind laptops. You have 80% of the time to do all that. You've got 20% of the time to make sure they have our full attention. and when we send them home they're they're itching to get back here so that's probably my first big thing the second is I also don't have six week leading times in a pre-season which I've done for 20 odd years you've got three days all right how are we going to get across the a game plan to to deliver against two opponents upcoming in three days but you might only have eight of them that can do 50% of the session because they've just got off of a plane. The other 50% just played the game the night before. Okay, so it's not really three days, it's two days. Okay, so how do we make the classroom count? How do we make the analysis pitch side count? How do we make the one-on-one conversations count, et cetera? I think, do I, I love it at this stage of my life, I think I would say. I feel like if you'd have asked me five years ago, I wouldn't have been ready to be with them 20% of the time. I was still very much in the thick of enjoying the club scene, whereas now I can't imagine ever going back. I think that's the interesting part for me is sort of how you've been able to transition that. Because what you're saying resonates with me, and I know Landon has his own sort of fatherly figure coaches. But I played for some brilliant coaches, but I think I played for some brilliant human beings. And part of what made them a great coach was that every day they had their hands. Every day we ate breakfast together. Every day they patted me on the back or challenged me. And that made them special and made it different because they had me every single day. But to be able to transition that is such a key component. what I always think about with the women's national team is this it's so different because our women are the best in the world sure on an odd on the odd occasion Germany could be great the U.S. women as players or it could be your former England team but like they're the they're in the conversation of the best team in the world with the best players so for you coming in and the reason the challenge is that way when you look at the men's national team there's often a with respect because landon and i went through there's a rise and fall right that a new coach comes in because you failed new coach comes in because you failed right and then and then we we rarely go from like this strength to strength sort of thing but with the women you can win a you can win a gold medal or a world cup and then you get a new coach and that new coach has to go oh my challenge is not to just win games my challenge is to win it all and so i i just i'm thinking more personally Like, did you feel that? I mean, I'm guessing that's what drew you to the job. But did you feel sort of that pressure of like, OK, this is a this is a I've got to win sort of situation? I think I can totally appreciate what you're saying. And I think had the the World Cup prior to me taking over being in a different place, I think the opposite. I think there was a decline happening in and around the game. This wasn't just about the team. And sometimes that's just transition. Sometimes I always say this, we don't give enough credit to everybody else. Like there's a declining us. It's just everybody, the investment has increased elsewhere. I think what I would say, and honestly, this is God's honest truth, being a parent now probably been through when you lose a parent probably been through and I mean this seriously I went through a really bad hysterectomy and I thought oh my goodness life can be short All I kept thinking to myself was, oh, my God, I've got the opportunity to do the one thing I've wanted to do in my whole life, to coach this team. Right, let's weigh it up. What's the worst things, what's the best things that are going to happen here? I get to go to an Olympics I get to go to a World Cup and I get to pay my mortgage a bit okay I've got perspective okay now I've got it now I've got this crest in my hand what am I going to do it is it flight or freeze flock which one I'm thriving like for me this is jumping out of an aeroplane and like enjoying the amygdala moment not running through a dark alley and thinking I'm going to die in a minute I'm just in that state of my life perhaps through life experiences where I'm I'm feel equipped to say I get it I understand the expectations I can live with them but I'm not going to let them define it for me I've defined what it will mean for me and as long as I when I put that shirt back down I've done everything I possibly can I can live with myself that and that's that's what fuels me That's why, you know, the players always say to me, they're like, you never look stressed. They never. And I'm like, look, stress happens, but maybe my stress might be something different. It might not be related to this job. It might be because I couldn't get Harry to school this morning. Stress happens, but I don't want it to be the one thing I probably have created deliberate practice to be able to do. I've spent 25 years honing my craft to be able to do this job. I have promised myself with plenty of meditation, I will live it like that regardless of the outcome. Well said. So you touched on the personal, and thank you for sharing that, by the way. I think we don't do enough of that in public spheres. You talked about the personal impact that things have had and led you to this. Professionally, getting fired by the Red Stars, going to Chelsea, all of the experiences there. How's that side of it led, or I guess formed you and shaped you as you are now? Because, of course, very substantially, I presume. In every way. I remember when I got fired in Chicago, I went to the zoo that day. I was in Chicago and I remember feeling so embarrassed. I didn't know it at the time. I was just like feeling embarrassed. I felt ashamed. I felt a failure. I felt like I felt broken, my confidence and everything felt destroyed. and I remember going to Washington about 10 weeks later in a supporting capacity and I'd gone from being the worst coach in the world to feeling the most needed that quickly and I thought and it was a reminder of god things shift so quickly and that I've got to have the the resilience to be and be agile enough to be able to do those things and what I learned from those moments I'm glad I had them was when you build anything in life be balanced be thoughtful and can I make the starting point listen great you can't win anything without good players so I'm not going to sit here and suggest otherwise but great teams if I can put together teams of people that are at least going to pull in the same direction I think you've got a greater chance of and impact and I think I've always I've always put that ahead of just picking the best player I've always thought been thoughtful about piecing that together because I never did get that right in Chicago and sometimes there can be you can have a glut of too much talent and over years and years and years of coaching what I've realized is well everyone's talented but can we get everybody to pull together in the right moments they don't have to be best friends yeah but we have to pull whatever when it matters. That's right. So it's interesting. So I can oversimplify, and I often do with the women because I'm saying they're just, they're the best. I love watching them. They're the best. They're the best players. You said you can't, you can't deny the fact that you have some of the best players and you know that that helps you win games. But when you look at this team for people who are listening, for people who are fans like us, when you look at this team, what is the greatest winning component? Because you said you have the best players or you often have some of the best players. But what is... I have the best learners. I have I tell people this all the time and it's not just because they're all college educated players but although I do think that plays a part when I compare that to every other nation in the world and by that I mean these are people that they understand how to grasp ideas they have a growth mindset they have an emotional intelligence because they might have to grow up go away from own you know learn to live by themselves now you know this a lot of players from around the world they might leave and go and play football somewhere but not combine that with an education and with that there might be some you know they might not grow in the same way so I think that's the first thing the second is and I've never seen this with any other team I've ever coached the love for the crest like these these women this is they they came out the womb and this is what they dreamed about it wasn't like oh you know i'd like to play for my country playing for the u.s women's national team as a an american female who loves playing football is the single biggest honor in a country as you know where it used to be always to get to make the college level now they can aspire to play at the pro level, but being planned for the US Women's National Team, honestly, every time they come into camp, that moment where they know they're going to get their first cat, I can just feel the tears. I can feel their energy. Wow. That's why for me, when I put them on the field, I know that what's going through their head is their whole life. So that's why I always say to them, what would you say to your 10-year-old self? because I feel like that's what I've learned to understand about the job is that it's so special and I genuinely believe that there's only – every team's special, I get that, but this team is – there's something different in the water, in the whole culture that has been built from 91 onwards and passed on that it's just it's very very hard to replicate it's so interesting that that there is is some of the most incredible things i've ever heard and it's such it's so refreshing and really the first part that you touched on i'm glad you said it because i double down on this all the time and now the the expert yourself has said it these women i had an argument with a with a gm in in the nwsl because it was a my daughter plays for University of Tennessee in the SEC. So I've watched some of these girls perform. And it was a brilliant player. And she went into an NWSL preseason. And they said, she doesn't have this. And so she plays in USL, which is fine. And I said, yeah, but every stage, this young woman has faced the odds and defied them. So when you just tell her what you said, she couldn't do something. Just tell her what to do and she'll make your roster. but instead it was very short-sighted but I agree with you, I just think they have the ability to learn, to take information on board to apply it and want to be great team players I have so many some of my greatest moments of this team is just humility that's shown team before I you know when I I told this publicly I told this privately when Tiana Davidson I put Tiana Davidson back in the team for the Olympic gold medal final And Emily Sonnet was effectively having to play for Tiana coming, coming into quarter finals, the semifinals, and quite rightly could probably have started the final. And I remember saying to Sonnet in the final and, you know, listen, I'm putting Tiana back in the team. And she said to me, of course you have to. That is the best thing for the team. I gave me goosebumps. We do whatever this crest needs. We do whatever this team needs. And you know, sometimes, and I'll just say, from the men's side, people will say that, but you know it's bullshit. And I believe it. And it is unique. And having been on both sides, coached both sides, you see it and you see the, it's not with every player, but vast majority and that's what makes it special it's the culture piece landon it's like yeah we talk about like what do we want to keep hold of and one of the things we always talk about is like those values that are just that are in our walls that have been passed on from generation we want to make sure we maintain those like and they sit above almost like your own individual desires like we do whatever's best for the crest that always comes of the highest order they've had incredible role models through the years right and and i think there's an obligation to respect what came before especially especially on the women's side with with the players that laid the foundation that were making a hundred dollars a week and nobody nobody knew them except every four years and now you've got players who are are so different and so it's it's i'm really happy to hear you say that. And one of, this is a last question for me, Emma, and we really appreciate your time. One of the challenges, and you dealt with this right away with Alex Morgan, is how do you deal with players who are aging out and meshing that with young, talented players? And I think that's one of the hardest parts of coaching. Tim talks about this all the time is players at the end of their career and how do you deal with that, right? And so, you know, Lindsay Heaps is another one who, you know, people like to criticize. And I say, she just wins. You know, it's like, why is she playing? Well, she wins. Right. And so she's now come to Denver and you've spoken. I know I saw how you've you've helped her through that process, too. How do you deal with players at the end and mesh that with young players and couple those together so that it's copacetic? And I know it's challenging. Yeah. I mean, first off, Lindsay's an incredible human being and all the things that she does to uphold a standard for the crest is you know she absolutely doesn't get the credit she deserves for that um and as you both know you need uh cultural architects you need glues in teams that help bind and she is without question that as well as as a leader and a competitor in her own right naturally you know players uh progress in their career and they reach you know the the last phase of their career and what I've learned is you just got to be honest you've got to be honest at every juncture so if it if it requires me sitting down with Lindsay as I have done and said look if we get to the World Cup next year and Claire Hutton has played four games in preparation for this I've failed in my job you've got close to 100 I can't remember how many caps she's got she'll kill me for this but I'm failing in my job to do that and that's part of the reason why we've had to play so many less experienced players because we haven't always been thoughtful about getting players ready to and so I think people like Lindsay will say I understand that but she'll also say I want to play and I say not we want you to play but it will have to we will do it in this way and this is why we are doing it and I think if you give players the why and include them on that plan they of course are disappointed but I will also turn around and say look this is important for you too that you remember being a 21 year old lindsey heap in the national team with player x at 32 being in front of you and you used to say why am i not getting a shot it's the same for that young claire hutton for example but i i think you need the combinations like i don't believe in aging players out after a certain period because if you don't have players that have been in the arena when it comes down to it you foul you have to have you have to have that as much as you have to have you know uh high prospects that that that you know might their first major tournament might not be their best one but we have to create exposures to get that right amen well emma thank you um we could do this all day i wish we could um best of luck against paraguay on the 24th and chile on the 27th it's gonna be really fun to watch you build now over the next year and a half into the world cup um this has been inspired honestly inspiring for me i don't i don't bullshit on here or anywhere but um i've really enjoyed listening to you so thank you this has been no listen whenever you guys are in one of our towns when we're around when we're training come down thank you i would love would absolutely love to you're always welcome come down we'll have dinner when you're in new york if you'd like because it's my town all right we're there I'm there in February. Oh, brilliant. All right? Brilliant. All right, it's stoppage time, sponsored by FanDuel. New customers can bet $5 and get $150 in bonus bets if you win. Download the FanDuel Sportsbook app to get started. All right, this week, Champions League. Seven games this match day. Should be a lot of fun. Only one match day left before we get into the playoff round, so these games are very, very important. And a reminder, teams who finish 1 through 8 automatically move on, but teams 9 through 24 must play a two-legged playoff. So a lot at stake this week. First one, Tottenham versus Dortmund. Spurs record is three wins, two losses, and a tie. Same as Dortmund's in this Champions League. Dortmund have scored 19 goals so far in the competition. This feels like a draw. It's at Spurs. They're not in a good way. Feels like this will be a draw. Both teams need the win to get into that top eight, but I think a draw is most likely. All right, Inter versus Arsenal. Arsenal unbeaten in the Champions League are in first place in the table. Inter are sixth with four wins and two losses. It's at Inter. I think Inter win this game because Arsenal may rest some players. I think they're focused on the league. They're going to finish in that top eight. So I think Inter win this game, especially at home. Moving on to Marseille versus Liverpool. If there was ever a game that had a draw written all over it, I think this is it. Marseille in 16th place. Be tough for them to move all the way up into the top eight. Liverpool in ninth, though. They need this game desperately to get into that top eight, but I think this game ends in a draw. Finally, Galatasaray versus Atletico Madrid. Galatasaray 18th, so they need to be careful not to fall out of that 24 and make sure they qualify. Atletico Madrid in eighth place with four wins and two losses. I think Atletico are the better team. I think they go to Turkey and win this game. Unfiltered Soccer's stoppage time picks this week are a draw in that first game, Tottenham versus Dortmund, Inter Milan to win over Arsenal, a draw in the Marseille-Liverpool game, and Atletico Madrid beating Galatasaray. Don't forget to check out the full list of unfiltered soccer futures on our socials later this week. All right, Emma, thank you. And we appreciate all of you guys for being with us today. Remember again to subscribe on YouTube, Apple Podcasts, Spotify, anywhere you get your podcasts. Follow across all social media at unfilteredsoccer for bonus content. thank you as always to our presenting sponsor vw our stoppage time sponsor fanduel and our additional sponsor at&t have an amazing week everyone we'll be back on tuesday with another edition of unfiltered soccer
