"Benedict Cumberbatch"

Hey Sean, hey, what's up? Hey, it's me. Oh, no, it's you. I just said your name. I know. I'm just talking to you. It's just relaxed about it. Hey, we're about to do another episode of Smartlist. Hey, for Tracy, cold open. This is a cold open, cold open. It's like, hey, she knows what cold open is. I hate shut up. I'm talking to her right now. Just give me two seconds. I got to explain what cold open is. She knows what a cold open is. It's not a million times. Oh, Tracy, cold open is what you say at the beginning of an episode before you start the episode. So people know you're starting the episode. I'm exhausted. Me too. Me as well. Don't forget about me. Also me. Welcome to Smartlist. Smart. Smart. Smart. Smart. Smart. Smart. Smart. Smart. Smart. Smart. Smart. Smart. Uh oh. What was that? Oh God, that was probably our surprise guest. Our surprise guest probably. He probably. He probably. No. No. Uh, where are, so let's see. Everybody is at home base. It seems like, uh, you know, Willie, where are you? I'm a mug island. Oh, you're back there. I'm doing back there. Are they just been, are I just been a little quick scoot out here for, uh, for a night? Where did you like, forget a pair of shoes? You really liked out there? No, Jason. No, but I mean, seriously, isn't it a hassle trying to figure out what you're going to keep in your second homes closet versus, um, what's back in Los Angeles? No. Is it mostly winter wear out there on the island? There's a lot of, a lot of winter wear. I, and it's, and it's chilly out here right now. So it's been really, it was beautiful, beautiful, beautiful. Um, no, I came out here with my little guy, uh, yesterday and just to kind of, take around, we were walking around, went into town, went to the bookstore. And that's nice. Um, yeah, it cranked up the, the pool, even though it's cold out. It's just real fun. Yeah. And, uh, yeah. And just super nice. Does he swim yet? Yeah. He does. You know, yes, he's, he's in the process of learning. He's, he's, he's five. So he's not, but he's come a long way like he's, you know, it does that thing where like he can swim underwater. You know, so they, whatever they don't, can't do in terms of strokes, they just can do it underwater. Get a, a dad. That means he can't swim. Okay. So, you know, swimming is trying to keep yourself boy and above. I know. I know. I know. I can't really swim in there. Did you guys, yeah, I was petrified. Are you, are you, are you a, are you a, are you a weak swimmer? Yeah, I can't, I don't know how to do it. I run out of breath in like 10 seconds. No, truly. Yeah, I know. I can't, I don't have the, I don't have the lung support to swim. That's not true. Well, you don't know how to do it. You don't know how to do it. You don't have to swim again. If you swim, you don't, you don't have the lung. You don't need to hold your breath if you can actually swim. The actual aerobic kind of movements that make your heart pump faster than you have to breathe faster. I just fail really quickly at it. Uh-huh. Okay. Do you know what I mean? Hang on. Yeah, I do. Please, I just want to take this one apart a little bit. I can't be the only person that can't swim. No, you're not, but, but no, do you, you get tired to keep yourself, um, from drowning. That's what it is. Well, is that because you're panicking and so you're catching your, your short of breath? No, I think maybe I just do too much too quickly. I don't realize how to, I don't know how to swim. So I paddle really fast. Did you ever use a ballman energy really? Is it an immediate panic? Yeah. I wish you. I wish people could see the motions that Shunny is doing. Shunny, do you, did you ever take swim lessons? Clearly not. He's moving both hands at the same time, you know, instead of, you know, most of us rotate right hand, left hand, right arm, left arm. I only know that. But Shunny, you can, you exercise and you don't run out of breath. I know. I don't understand it. So it's not like walking up a bunch of steps. Like if you walk up too many stairs, you don't just like collapse and roll down the stairs, right? No, no, no, I don't know what it is about the swimming or the pool. It goes slower up the stairs. Do you find, are you swimming like, have you got a, like, I don't float? Right. One of the stats surprising. Do you, I mean, have you got like a corn dog in your hand? What's going on? By the way, I love a corn dog. It should be noted in the pool. I fucking love a. I really, I do too. And I feel like if kind of gone, by the way of like the bungee jumping and things like that, it. Yeah. I mean, I know if I put them in the same. I agree. Is by the way, I want to know where all the stretch limousine. And the corn dogs have gone. But you get some, you get a corn dog, you get a corn dog and you dip it in some just yellow French's mustard. Yes, that's the best ever. Forget it. I know. What about some of the little cheese, little cheese dip? Oh, well, yeah. I'm not a cheese dip. I'm not a cheese dip. Little tub of cheese. Yeah. I don't do that. Hot dog on a stick was a big, was a big spot out here with the, with the funding multicolor hats. I don't know. Where was that? No, never heard of it. We had a bunch of those like in the valley. There was some out at the beach. It was, Sean, I'm surprised you're not a hot dog on a stick guy. I don't, who says I'm not? I try it. No, no, no, but I mean, that was like, that was a famous, that was a great spot. What about it? What about it? I had this discussion with somebody. What about a pig in the blanket? Yeah. I do enjoy those. Yeah. I put it in a puff pastry. Anything with a pig. I have not seen Scotty in a long time. Yeah. Oh, he's all tied up on the couch. Oh, sorry. No, that's a, that's a bear in a comforter. Sorry. I, I can count the two. Yeah. A cup in a comforter. Oh, my God. A cup of furter. Scotty's going to kick my ass. Oh, he's good. He's really funny. Well, listen, that's a great cue for a gift. What if you just hand over? Just in like a snuggie. Yeah. You just walked up to Scotty. Just there's squirting French's mustard on it. And taking big bites or licks. Here goes. Here goes. Um, guys, we got a real live one today, all right? This guest is a man with talent. Okay. Look, smarts. Uh-oh. He's got many nominations, plenty of wins, box office, sock, critical respect. He's got massive dramatic range, razor sharp comedic skills and a British accent. Oh, wow. That's the triple crown. But most importantly, he's got a wife. He's got three sons and one of the best names in the screen actor's guild directory. Friends say hello to Benedict Cumberbatch. No kidding. Come on, Owl. It was going to guess. He's got two middle names, too. What are they? What are they? As if it wasn't enough, Benedict Timothy Carlton. Timothy Carlton. It gets better. Oh, yeah. I used them on off days. No, that's Dan's name. It's just it's a thing of just trying to squeeze the whole family into one small child. Benedict Timothy Carlton. Carlton. Carlton Cumberbatch. Yeah. Fabulous. Yeah. How are you? So nice to meet you. I'm good. I mean, I'm already, I mean, I can't, I can't, I can't, I got a rictus grin on my face. I can hardly speak. Not only because of that absurdly nice introduction, but it's a real privilege to listen to the top of the show as your surprise guest. And I was kind of guessing it all Christ. If I laugh, will they hear me laugh? Would you, are you completely music on me? Well, if, if, if Bennett and Rob were on the stick, they'd have your mic down before we introduce you. And instead we're hearing you dropping shit, Bennett, Rob, goddamn it. No, there was a sound like my body dropping with chocolate on your surprise. I was guest and that was that, that I am in my house with my wife and the four mentioned three kids. So that was probably the wind catching a door. Let's hope it's not a temper tantrum because I know that might not be out of the world. How old were you? Or an intruder. They are. Yeah, guys, I got to go. I see. I don't get murdered on the show. No, that'd be great. That would be the first ratings. The boys are how old? Six, eight and ten. Six, eight and ten. Well planned. Yeah. I'm not a racist. Was that on purpose? Kind of. Let's do two years apart. Kind of, yes. We just want it. We did want to get on with it. Yeah. And so there's a trooper. She's always. Oh, good thinking. I didn't, for some reason, you know, because I'm, people know, I'm super bright. I'm, I'm, I'm misdive. I wanted three and I just didn't plan it well. And there's a five year gap between the two. And then we just got to, we just aged out. Couldn't have a third, you know. Oh, yeah. I'm just, anyway, hang on. What's up? Well, by the way, or you can do what I did, just have the gap anyway. And just, you know, I'll, and just reload. Yeah. So hang on. I'm the better way to stay there. Is it a better way to say that? So do the guys speak. Still rolling. Unload. Let's reset. What? What? Oh, Jesus. Benedict, is that something the three kids? Is it something that, is it like, did you guys agree to a number or is it just like, well, we're living life and this is what happened? So if he comes from three, and now I'm an only child, so I panicked when our second was on the way. And, you know, what do you do? Do you divide yourself? How do you love as much, both things without necessarily having more time to do that? And, you know, there are the odd moments when you're on a kind of solo date with them, with one of them and you kind of go, well, am I really cheating around with a lot of this? But then you see them, when they're not trying to kill each other, getting on as friends and think, no, I've given you the gift of a lifetime that allows me. You have three, you have two people in your life that will always be there. Yeah. I do want to do it or not at times. But, you know, it's, it's amazing. So I, I swung around to the idea pretty quickly and I, I love it. I love it. That I can kind of tribe of cubs running. Yeah. You, you sort of like, you started to go there a bit on like, I thought about that. When I had my second kid, I was like, oh, wait, am I going to be able to love this one as much as I love the first one? And you're like, are you an only child? No. I have a sister. And he just acts like one. Yeah. What do you say? But no, like when I had, when, when we had maple, we already had franning, the five years later, we have maple. And I was so crazy about franning and then here comes maple, right? A stranger comes in the house, brand new baby. And you're just like, well, I can't wait to get to know you. I hope I love you as much as the first one. And like, what? You, it's a tall owner. Order turns out. Did you? No, but this is what I think about it. I think a lot of parents probably go through that, right? Whether you're aware of that or not. I think it's a very, I think it's a very natural reaction because the first time you have a child, it is that, oh, you're entire, all of it changes to you, all bit of the world, the way you see your parents, your place in that whole thing is just utterly realized at a very real moment. And that is it is what I'm trying to say. You think, oh, this is it. This is what life's about. And you go, oh, no, but it's until the next one. Right. It has to be the same. And it is. But it's weird. It's the same as women forgetting most of the time, but you know, that physiologically forget apparently the birth pain about what women go through. I can't imagine. Otherwise, why would your human body even want to be able to be impregnated? It's just the whole thing. Or where he is, focuss on this. It is. And sure. We're just, you know. You could go ahead. Well. I'm not expanding on that. You really don't want to touch that one. No, I'm not. But it is funny. And what's amazing too is how different, and I got it, I'm like the quadrillionth person to bring this up, but I also have three boys better than it and how entirely different they are from each other. Even my boys who are less than two years apart are so vastly different personality wise. And that virtually the same experience growing up, you know. And I've said this before, what do you, what's your take on this better? How much do you think is nature? How much do you think is nurture? Right? Because these three boys and daughters, it's all nature, right? I mean, you can nurture, I think. I think we're going to answer in the question for the guest again, which I'd love to do. I think it's like five or 10%. You can move your kid good or bad. Otherwise, you just, you get what you get. If they're going to be fantastic, they're fantastic. If they're going to be a challenge, they're going to be a challenge. You can have the best parents in the world and it's just you get what you get. What do you think? Well, I don't know. I think you're right about, they arrive with something that's beyond our understanding, really. Yeah. There is this thing which, if you're really open to it, especially those first sort of five, seven years, and you present the world as a thing that's open and full of wonder and a safe place and full of magic, as we very much know, sometimes in reality it isn't, but if you give them that space just to be themselves. You do see these extraordinary creatures just become something of their own accord. But I think it does need a lot of nurture and love. However, you're right. Within that, they do things which are certainly to do with nature because how can a child give you love in a time of need as an adult, which I've experienced in my family and partly to the film we're going to talk about at some point? But it feels like it is, they are capable in the words of Max Porter and the novel of giving something back that isn't learned. It's not asked for. It's not caused by anything other than them having an empathy or a link or an understanding of what love is. Yeah, that's human instinct. It can't pre-loathe what they're born with. And yeah, and I think without getting too wishy-washy about it, if I haven't already, that is nature. But you start crying. And you start crying in the first 15 minutes, we're going to have a problem. Jason, real quick, empathy is... Yeah, it's my best job. No, I think it's a mind-blower. It is a mind-blower. It is a mind-blower. I have 12 kids if I could. Yeah, I think they're here to teach us, really. So like you say, I think it is, I don't know about, per cent of us, but it's mostly nature. They are innately, innately, not innately, and very much actively. Wonderful. Let's go back there with you, Benedict. Yeah, let's go back there. Your childhood. So you say you were your only child, and you were born to two actors. Yes, mom and dad. Mom and dad, one to Van Thum and Timothy Colton. That's amazing, right? It's so common on our show too, when we have somebody as prolific as you, that it seems like they always come from an artist's family. But rarely two actors though, right? Usually they're sculptors or poets or something like that. So then I'm sure the answer would be no to the question of was there pressure to become an actor? It was probably just something that you were just naturally interested in because you saw your two first heroes doing that? A little. And also, if anything, pressure the other way. Like, don't do it. We're doing it. It's a huge point to spend a life. The car parapetetic and useless, we are other things and how family life is a chaotic jumble of loose end commitments that have to be abandoned at the last minute because Dan's got an advert audition. I mean, it was just, you know, they did really, really well in their careers. Mom, especially commercially, dad brilliantly as well in the theatre. They did a lot of the raw caught in the early days of kitchen sink drama there. But the point is, you know, they wanted me to have the opportunities that they didn't, although they didn't have in their life as my parents. And they afforded me in education where I could have gone on to be a lawyer or something of that. That was the only other thing I flirted with, which is why I say that. I think for a while. Sean floated with the lawyer in the parking lot last night. Yeah. That is right. And then I got taken to court for it. But what do you mean they wanted, but Benedict, they wanted you have access to opportunity to something more predictable in your life career wise? I think something more stable, definitely. Yeah. And, but the bug had bit really. And it was very much to do with watching them in their prime doing, doing what they did. And, you know, I remember my dad in a cast of noises off this amazing Michael Frameplay that's about, it's a fast within a fast. It's this amazingly kaleidoscopic baronian examination of a British tradition of comedy, which obviously you guys know called fast. My mom was doing the real thing. And even the real fast is that we're very dubulent, Andre heavy, very misogynistic and homophobic at times as well to the point I said, Mom, you really can't do another play where you walk into a room where your husband is having his pants pulled down by his male PA and it looks like Filet Show, whereas in fact, he's just trying to give him a quick change. And he's just like, I can't, I can't be your son. I call myself proud if you keep doing this. But I do remember, perversely, to that embarrassment, sort of sitting in the wings and watching her go through and just be mom in sort of chatting to me and saying hello to the SM and then just kind of opening the door in this light and heat and noise of what was happening in front of those flats hitting her and her just transforming just in the blink of an eye and I thought, what is that? What just happened to my mom? Where did she go? And yeah, I kind of got a taste for that. And as an only child, I think you're kind of already locked in a bit to quite a solitary imaginary universe. When was it that you understood what they were kind of talking about when it comes to the career that you can't really count on? Like how young were you and do you remember that moment of going, yeah, but I get it's unpredictable but I still want to go for it and try it. New misoccasion. I'm too old to really remember though. Still today. Right for all of us. I think a bit, yeah. Am I really doing this? Yeah, I do. I'm doing it. There were moments when I thought, okay, sage advice from ones who know, but I'm going to do it differently. I think I've got a different way into this. Yeah. And I don't know that it will be different. And in fact, really all I wanted was what they have, which is a career and resumment from their peers and having a good time doing a job they love. You know, and that's what a great way to live your life. Yeah. So my way of doing it differently was perhaps going, okay, well, the things that you've done and you want, maybe I don't know, I don't know, but I knew I was throwing, I knew I was throwing it to the wind and I knew I was chanting it. But I think the moment I thought I can't really not do this is when I got serious about A levels before going to college, a university in England, obviously. And yeah, I met a lot of lawyers who are saying, look, turn back now, people who are doing bar exams or people who made it into being part of a chambers or even people practicing going, it's just, it's really pretty hard. It's an oversubscribed profession. It's very, being a lawyer. Yeah, you're in this guzzy last case, I thought that's very familiar. Yeah, right. Why am I doing this? Which would have required an inordinate amount of work on my part and not that smart at all. And I would have had to work so hard for what? For those big arrests, you know. But at least the credentials, the stuff you come out of college with, you are somewhat guaranteed a base salary and some future to it. Whereas with anything in the arts, you don't have that. And so if one or two or three of your boys said, hey, I want to go into acting, would you, what would you, as a father, would you recommend that they dedicate the requisite number of years needed to kind of build a base? Or would you say, ah, put that time into something that is a bit more, um, predict where there's a guarantee you can count on. Yeah. As a parent, of course, yeah, because you worry about what the world will be. I'd learn what that talent will be or won't be recognized as and where their ambitions and dreams are and their expectations and what the reality is in the gap between that. You never know that you're going to get to where you are if you say, I just saw, I'd tell my kids all the time, roll the dice. I'm always like, just roll the dice. Just fucking. Yeah. I'm afraid, you know, I did it. I did it. So, yeah. Well, how can I, how can I, how can I turn them away from something that I've ended up doing? As you know, it's funny. You know what's funny, though, I will say what the difference now is, well, one of my sons, I think, is going to likely pursue something in the arts and the other one is, yeah. And he's sort of leading that way. And the other one is not, he's, and I, he was talking about Samaria, and I said, here's the thing that they're talking about with amongst their friends. He's, as my eldest son, he's a junior in high school here, so he's 17. He says, I said, they have to talk about the, what are the jobs out there going forward that are going to be affected by AI? And so, so kids are thinking about like, you know, they don't want to become computer programmers or they're not going to become, you know, things like graphic dissent. Well, by the way, go down lawyers as well. Right. Legal work. All that stuff is going to be handled by AI. So now you're not competing against other kids. You're competing against the, the computers of the world. Right, right, right. Yeah. I know, I know, I know, I know, it's, I don't, I don't envy them right now. And I, yeah, we're, we're, we're avoiding the fact that AI is massively in our industries. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Of course it is. Yeah. All right. I will, before we get, it's evening here. Like, just a wet, can you see? I can't, I just got really dark there. Yeah. It got really, really dark. It's very moody. That's very nice. It's beautiful. Oh, nice. There we go. Is that better? Oh, Benedict. Oh, it's Benedict. Oh, it's Benedict. Oh, it's Benedict. Cover badge. All right. So like sweet willyarnet, you did some time in boarding school. Was that a positive experience or was it challenging? Because I get homesick real easy. That would be tough for me. How long have we got? I, just the perfect mixture of both, I'd say. The first one was amazing. I mean, I'm an only child. I was, like, it was saying it, I had a band of brothers for the first time in my life. Yeah. So that was, yeah. That was easy street to 13. And then the 30, the whole adolescence thing, and it was a single sex one. And it was at the sort of top of a hill looking down over the London basin. And yet so, Osa very far away from it. And I just thought, this isn't quite right. This isn't real. The demographic was very narrow. And no, girls, and I just, I, the school itself was extraordinary. Some amazing teachers and fantastic experiences. But at that point, I was like, OK, the boarding thing I think I'm done with. Right. Because I was homesick, but because I just, I guess, I wanted to be part of a broader community. Sure. But that's a healthy thing. There's also a very healthy thing to be straining away. It was that was me leaving the nest. I was already only very, very, very, at the age of eight. I think I boarded when I was eight. We'll be right back. This is a paid ad by BetterHelp. You know, you've heard me talk a lot about my mom and how funny she was and how much we love her. But boy, was she a huge inspiration to me. She gave me the tools I needed for the work ethic I have and the funny bone in my body. She's one of the best human beings, if not the best human being I've ever known. 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And now back to the show. Wait, so Ben, you were eight when you went away, yeah? Yeah. Yeah. I was 12, but my roommate had come from, when I was 12, I was seventh grade. My roommate had just come from boarding school in England and he'd been there since he was seven. Yeah. I bet it's easier when you go younger, right? Well, then when you're older because you've created those relationships when you're once you are way younger. Yes. I mean, I'll sort of jump on what Benedict said, which is, you do create, now I have siblings, I have two older sisters and a younger brother. Quick, what are their names? It's a fuck. What's outside of it? What's outside of it? Yeah. Target, Tesco, and Tihannis. Tihannis and Shanley are my sisters and my brother's name is Chuck, aka Charles. Anyway, I was at, but I went when I was 12 and you do have, and I am still friends with some of those guys that I went to school with because in those formative years, and I also was just an all boys, when I went, it was all boys, it's now co-ed. But it is, you know, when I look back on it now and I don't know how you feel about a better day, but I look, the idea of my boy is going away, there's no fucking way. Right. I know. I couldn't stand off. No, not unless they really want to, but no way, no way, no way. And so if he's the same mindset, you know, we do, yeah, and selfishly I want them around. I want to be on top of that. Yeah, even summer camp. Whatever would ever dad, wherever pushed away I am, I still want to be there in case the cool comes, the fool happens, the knees. Yeah, so can I ask a question to the group here? Yeah. Because I don't have a skill. I mean, it's just one kid. Let me look at the clock real quick. Yeah, it's okay. Yeah, I just can't. I do make it quick. Yeah, I better get comfortable. This is going to be a long question. Oh, shit. No, it's okay. It's okay. When you ask the question, it's a long question. No, it is, what is the, because I don't know about boarding school, why would a parent send their kid to boarding school? Better education, focus. Okay. Okay. Yes, question? Amazing facilities. Yeah. Very immersive education experience where you know, you have, well, the beginning of it anyway, you have a very structured timetable. So they sort of purpose to your day. It's very fulfilling. Oh, yeah. Kind of something like a brochure, but yeah, because it always sounds like a jail or something. No, no. No, no. They're very plush places. It's like Hogwarts. It's like incredible. Yeah. Oh, I mean, that is exactly how I was described once by Martin Freeman. He said, I went to a North School and then he went to Hogwarts, which I can't have to do. It wasn't with the school, but it was, it was a particularly old one. It is, but it is true. And you know, think about all those things. You learn how to, you know, by the time I got to college, I dropped out quickly from college, but and part of it was because everybody, my peers who were there who did not go to boarding school, it was their first time away from home. And I'd been away from home so, so much earlier that getting out, I was ready to get out of the world. I was like, fuck all that. Yeah, yeah. I've been looking at something a frappartian like is it cool to put? Yeah. And you're like, no, I've already done this. True. And I think, I don't know. I'm here and I've come out of it. Okay. And I wouldn't really change it. I wouldn't know what I'd change it to. I didn't have any other experience. But like Jason, who taught you how to tie a tie? Oh, that would have been. Oh, shoot. Set dresser. The set on set costumer for rest of development. Is that true? No, really. No, really. But I did really, really nail it down on that because I had to tie a tie every fricking day. And then listen and then roll up the sleeves. Roll up the sleeve because Michael Bluth, can I just say something just as an aside? Michael Bluth. This guy down down, well, he got down to business. He was rolling up those sleeves. If you go back and you watch Jason, still to this day, well, still to this day, well, you've given me a full complex about that because that's just, that's just Jason. That's not Michael Bluth. I always roll up my sleeves on a button down shirt. And I still do it to this day. And I think I hear your stupid fucking GMC voice every morning. Roll up my sleeves. It is getting down to business. You begin to fuck. All right. Now, I look at you too, Dad. Was that when you two first met on the rest of development? I think so. Too long. Yeah. Just. I didn't know we were stuck on this. I'm casting. I know. So now you must have got you guys. It's such a blast being out. I have to say, I'm, I'm a huge fan of this show. And it's just, it's one of these things. One of my best friends put me on to me. So if you got to hear the, I mean, I love all of your work individually, but the, yeah, it's a very good thing. You've got going here. It's fantastic. That's very nice. Now, listen back to you. You must have enjoyed the education at the boarding school enough. And the pets, well, I said that. Will you become, you become a teacher yourself and you teach English? What? Betten community. Oh, good sense. It's like untrue. Just outside of Dejarling, India. Oh, yeah. Yes. I like that. Especially the pronunciation of Dejarling. That's great. I know. I was, I have found it. How do you say it? How do you say it? We should all now say it. Dejarling. What is it called? Dejarling. Did you go to Dejarling, darling? No, it's Archie Ling. I think. Dejarjeeling. That's it. Dejarling. Dejarling. That's great. My dad has this a bit of doing, he says, oh, I think I'm going to go to Marx and Spence's and buy a Marx-Barrard. That's what you're trained at. What did I do? Well. Every summer in a B's I, I like to Dejar. You know, for like a week or two, I'll go down there to Dejarj. Why? Dejarj. Dejarj. Dejarj. So, sorry. Yes. So it is true. You taught English in a Tobacco Community. I mean, teachers have very loose term. I kind of turned up and they giggle that me, which was a fair enough cultural exchange. Well, no, it was very hard for me. I learned so much. As you can imagine, I was a 19-year-old kid who knew nothing. It'd come from a very kind of enclosed private school, you know, broadening school education. And it was the first talk at the school that we had given to us. I'm not about the school I went to. We got given talks about what you could do with your year-out. If you wanted to take one between school and English school and college. Yeah. Well, gap year. A little gap year, exactly. And it was the first one I heard about and I just went. I didn't really listen to it being about teaching. It was all about being close to Tibetan culture. I just had this very strong gravitational pull in my soul. I thought, I have to do this. There's nothing. I knew people, don't you want to volunteer in Africa? Do you want to climb a mountain? All these amazing opportunities. And I just was deaf to all of them because of how strongly I felt I needed to do this. And what was the pull to the Tibetan culture? When did that start? Yeah, I don't know. Maybe in a previous lifetime. I really don't know. Well, I mean, I was fascinated by it visually and I knew a bit about Buddhism, but it was just so overwhelming. And as was the experience I had, there was six months of, well, five months of teaching and then some tourism tied to the end. One thing about wandering about India, yeah, and the pull, which was both of which were extraordinary. And any pull from Everest at all? Was it part of the pull? Because I've got this, I've got this fascination with Everest. But you want to try to do it? I mean, I want to get at least a base camp in my life. Right. But then you hear about how much pollution there is, how much tourism and craziness there is and I kind of go, well, maybe there's a better amount in towards it. And what's up quickly? We can turn Jason off Everest. Do you know how dirty it is, Jason? Wait, what? Yeah, wait, what? In the tense, the tense. But I would just... I would just shower every night. You know, I don't know showers. Did I change the limits? No, no, no, no, it changed the limits. Oh, you can't sanitize her. That's not really that bad. That would be scary. Yeah. But all right, so that was... Sorry, the landscape did have a pull in all seriousness. Of course it did. It's such an extraordinary bit of geography, that whole area. And this is in the foothills. So going towards Darjeeling and it's a little hill station town called Sonada. And it was a converted Nepali house and at the top was this monastery, this prayer room, below was the monks accommodation, the eating area and then a small teaching area. And I might have got the height, all the numbers of levels are wrong, but I was basically very much on the bottom. And it was really... We were high up in what, 4,000 meters, something like that. And you open the window and it was sort of coming into autumn and winter there. So the clouds would literally roll in like dry ice through the window. It was absolutely extraordinary. Wow. And pretty basic. My dad reminded me, his panic, this is pre-cell phones, I'm not old and the internet is not that old. And it was a moment where I'd written in tiny, tiny, tiny, tiny, tiny, a little girl on a blue, air mail letter home one weekend. Don't worry dad, all the cold is solved now in my room. As I have a gas heater and I've managed to block all the vents and he was reading it. Oh, well, he's going to die of carbon, I'm not saying poison. Yeah. I didn't, but you know, might explain a few brain cells less than I had now, but it was amazing. It was very basic but very romantic, very hard, very lonely, very elating, very inspiring and spiritually mind-blowing and utterly mundane. How do you gain yourself? I don't know, I can't. I'm sorry, I'm sorry. Like, how do you talk about how many days, how many people have been out there? I'm just talking to somebody off camera. He's setting up the weekend. He's talking to his dog, licking his balls. How do you do that? We all know Sean. We all know. I'm sorry. And that's my teaching class. How do you call me? He's talking to somebody off camera. Show me after. When I'm done, I'm shot in the podcast and show me. Show me, Mike's hot still hot. I can't wait to see. Show you show me after. No, I'm recording a podcast. I'm doing it now, but you start. Start now. They can't see. Start. Okay. I want nothing. Okay, back to business. What the fuck? What was your question about? How do I clean myself? Yeah. Even the real. When you're in trouble. When you're out there in a tent. For what days, weeks, how do you, what do you do? No, no, no, no, no, I was in a house. I was in a house. I was in a house. I was in a house. I was in a house. I was in a house. I was in a house. I was in a house. I was in a house. I was in a house. Oh, next question. He's filling in for someone this week. I thought you were in a tent. It's in his upper buttons. It's in his upper buttons. Show me. Do you need a loop up back there? Scottie, get the loop. All right. So let's move to that. Now, so we're back. We're back from digerling. Yeah. And we're going to make it. We're the DJ. We're back from DJ. And we're going to make a career of this acting thing. And we're going to go for the acting. And we get a little bit of momentum going. And we're on our first film set. Which is. Well, that's a fucking long way into the story. But with the maybe the A.B. It's boring. Yeah, I think it's a killer king. Is that is a first feature film role? Yes. I don't remember. Maybe that was my first. Yeah. Do you remember what that first being on it, being on a set for the first time? Well, how did that, how did that jib with what you had, you'd gone through all this great theater education, acting education, and then you're on a set. And you see all the equipment and, and you're just doing little bits of time as opposed to theater. Like, how did that strike you? This, this, this film process. I just remember, I remember small snippets of two grey Scott being very lovely and serious and smokey voice. I remember Julian Ryan Tut being very sort of funny and witty and just being incredibly on it. And I mean, laughing quite a lot. I don't remember anything that I did in front of camera. I didn't come away going, oh, why? Yeah, okay, camera work. Interesting. Not, not out of it, not because it was a bad experience. I just, I mean, genuine about my lack of memory of that particular experience. You, you're remembering, being scolded for looking at the camera. Did I? Maybe I have, maybe you spoke into the director. No, no, I, I think going with that, that would be, that would be my fault. Well, I'd, yeah. Well, no, so, I mean, I guess, I guess, well, two things. I suppose Mum and Dad helped in that regard a little bit. Not because they rehearsed me or anything like that. And I think stage mommy, but just, I guess I was a little bit aware of what you do and don't do on a set having been on a couple where they were doing their thing. Right. But, but also, I, like, funny enough, I'd been my first ever film job, TV job was in heartbeat, which is a, a night TV staple, or was, I don't know if it's in England. A very nostalgic, a police drama set in York, on the Yorkshire Dales. And was it the Moore's, sorry Yorkshire God, Olivia did this when she was talking to you about Devon, and, and, and Devon and Dorset, it's Devon, by the way. That's what we call him. See, I do this in the show show. And I, I, I just remember being very nervous on heartbeat set. I do remember that very, very well and just wondering, am I any good at it? I don't know what I'm doing. I don't, and I know there's something capturing everything I'm doing. I'm like an audience which has this kind of multi-camera perspective. And you can't watch yourself back. You can. And I really wanted to, but I didn't. But I kind of wanted to know what the fuck am I doing? Fuck, I'm, I'm like, I might, I might, I might, I'm doing too much to little. Because you didn't get any feedback like you were used to from like an audience, you know, from doing theatre. Was that it? No. No, none because it's just a very, you know, well oiled machine, a crew that mean doing it for literally decades. And, um, yeah, it was just very kind of, oh well, I hope that's all right. I think I get to work again, you know. And it was the first job I got. I was still at drama school, so I had to ask permission. I was any at Lambda for one year, but I had to ask permission to, to do the job. You're not supposed to work if you're still at a drama school. Yeah. I don't know if that's changed. I hope it hasn't many ways. But. And now you mentioned, uh, uh, not being able to see yourself back. Do, do I ask, I ask actors this? Do you watch yourself act? And if so, have you, have you, uh, treated yourself to looking at your older work? And do you see a big difference between how you used to act versus today? And is that it, is that it, uh, do you, do you applaud yourself for having gotten better, different, how so smaller, bigger? Do you, do you, do that? Do you want yourself? No, no, no, I'm not, I'm not my own, my own sort of crazy fan. And I don't mean that in a sort of, it's only vanity that does that. It is, that could, could be an incredibly useful thing to do, but I'm not quite, for me it is, yeah. I'm not a pers, a persian tool in that way. I'm not going to compare myself to what I have done. It's always about where I'm at at the moment. And that, the, the, the need to see some reflection of what is going on. I'm, is it registering? And also to have that conversation with the director going, no, no, I think, I think I know what you wanted. And I, I was trying to do something else. Can we, can we go again so I can try and give you something near what you want? I've seen now that that's not quite, that doesn't quite fit it. And for the character and the movement and whatever it is, I mean, I, it's, it's a really hard thing to generalize about. Yeah, I guess I've been stretched like gum and all sorts of directions as an actor. So I can't really be specific. Certain things, like I think, power the dog I never, I don't think I ever watched a play back on that. Because I just, I knew I was in and either it was shith or, or it was happening. And I just had to just be that guy anyway. Kind of going around as Phil Burbank going and can I see the playback and also about it. I didn't really want to have that interaction with crew. And I wanted to have the arrogance of the character. So you strike me as somebody who's, who's, who's skilled enough talented enough and touched with yourself enough to really be able to direct yourself to a certain extent and know whether it's good or bad. How much, how much do you, how much do you defer to a direct, you mentioned, you know, well, I know what you want is let me do another one to see if, see if I can do what you want. Will you, will you shape a performance for a director? Will you do what a director wants you to do or what is your opinion on that? Like, who's character? Yeah, look, I think I've been very, very lucky with the caliber of director. Well, thank you for what you just said, first of all. But I also think it is, it is about how lucky I've been with the caliber director. You know, I, I form trust with that person. And so therefore can filter my own innocence of whether I was shit or good, bad or indifferent and, and, and match it to, to their. Honestly, about it. The best directors as well often give you a prompt that turns everything around 180 degrees. And it's not that they've rejected what you've done or didn't like it. They just want to see something different. That's what, that's what excites me is just trying to jump through a different hoop in a way. Do you, do you remember the first time as you were coming up and, you know, after you kind of got your sea legs about you and acting your first gigs? Do you remember the first time when you, when you took a real big swing and you're like, oh God, this is something I never imagined I could do. And I'm, it scares the shit out of me. I think a little bit on every, every job, but I, it's to one degree or another. Ready, that's a really good question, Sean. You do take great swings and you, you, you never clank it. You always hit the ball hard. You do really admire ball. Like you always feel like you're in great hands as an audience member when, when, when you're watching. Yeah. Truly. That's a huge compliment coming from you guys. Thank you. No, it's, it's, and it's, and it's drama or comedy. It's, it's pretty impressive. Thank you. Well, I, I, I guess the, the bottom line is there's no sort of secret source to it. I feel, yeah, I, I feel excited when I'm taking a big swing. When did I first feel that sense of, oh, I'm not sure what I'm doing. Oh, well, I, I know it's that with that, that, sorry. No, go. Well, it was, I was just going to say it was one of those reactions where I've got, I've got the job. And then I thought, oh, my God, how am I going to do that? Yeah. And that was, that was playing Stephen Hawking in a television drama about his, his life. Right. Which sort of compared to Eddie's took it up to, you know, he was walking with a stick and the, the speech was very impaired. Um, still married to Jane Hawking. So it was a very, it was one slice of his life. It's extraordinary life. And, um, yeah, the thrill, the elation of that. And then going, oh, my God, I've just committed people that I can do this. I don't think I can. You know, I was, I was immediately terrified after the 10 seconds of elation. Right. Um, so I guess that was the first moment. I thought, well, this is kind of a big swing. Yeah. But was there, what was that first, what was that first, you, that first moment where you, so I, I totally get that and release that. But then the, the moment, I think, I think Sean's question was more about you were talking about choices. I mean, yeah. He was talking about choices. But, but when do you feel comfortable? When was that first time you felt? Forget Sean's question. He's, when was that first time that you felt comfortable in a performance where you, because you know there's that thing when you're a young actor and you go in and you're just sometimes you're like, I don't want to fuck up or you're just kind of, you're nervous and blah blah. And then what's that first moment you felt rather than going, oh, yeah, you hit a groove. You felt tight. You got it. You know, do you remember that job? No, I think that was what Sean was saying. I, I, I, I, I can't, you're a bucket. I don't know. I do think that's what you meant. I, I think, I don't know. It's so hard. It's so hard to be specific about this sort of thing. Yeah. Fuck, I don't know. I've always, I'm always saying to acting students that I, I feel you can have, you can have, you can have something very theatrical in a close up as much as you can have something very vocally focused and close up on the stage. I think the magnification, magnification of her performance is really to do If something is too big, it means often it's wrong. It doesn't mean that the scale of it is is is what am I trying to say. I don't know. I, some big choices I made where I thought I'm just doing this and I think it's right. I mean Patrick Melrose would probably be one because I've partied, but that guy was other level and I think the choices I made with him were pretty committed and I, you know, because I was in a very sober state doing this crazy, different levels of, inebriated dance work. I kind of just, I just really committed to it and it's those things where you go, I mean, I don't even remember thinking this could be silly. I actually remember thinking, it was quite fun. Maybe I should try Kwe Ludes and I'm joking. I just had a commitment to it that meant it felt like I was on the ride, but also thinking, I hope this actually works. I think we have that a lot, don't we, when we're having a good time doing something as well, okay, this feels great and everyone here is enjoying it and we're all, is anyone going to watch it or think the same? People that aren't obligated to say, hey, great job. Yeah, you're fully right on a biased audience and it's a little bit scary. And I think to your point about directors, you can come out of an experience and go, oh, should I really do need to trust my voice and my instincts a little bit more sometimes because I think I could have got that better. I've had moments watching things soon after their completion and gone, yeah, I should have dug my heels about that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's take all the best choice. Well, but yeah, but you were, you were not foolish to count on the taste of people like Sam Mendes or Thomas Alfredson, but yeah, like I said, some amazing trances. Yeah. Well, I'll be right back. And now back to the show. Speaking of Tinker Taylor's soldier spy, what about the fear of acting with those incredible actors around you? Like was, was, was that nerve-wracking? I mean, you were obviously very, very well established by the time you did that film, but still you can't shake the little guy who was at Lambda, you know, like you're sitting there with with these Titans. Was that was that frightening? Yeah, I mean, yeah, the first time I met, I mean, Mark, I done a little thing with Mark Strong, so I knew him. Colin was just absurdly wonderful and lovely and nice and goofy and impressionable as well as being ridiculously smart and talented and devilishly handsome and all the rest of years. And then Gary, when I first met Gary, he walked around the corner of, he was either working titles office or it was somewhere uninspiring. And it wasn't where I was expecting to meet him. And I'd gone in for a costume fitting and there he was and he just got me, look, and he just, I was stopped in the corner and he looked at me, let me up and down, man. Hello. Oh, hello. Hi, I and just was just sort of just a mess in front of him. Yeah, he was very, very cool. He was very cool. Yeah. And I thought, oh, fucking hell, I thought this horrible, ill comfort of, I've got to, I've got to please this guy, I've got to somehow impress him and and make sure he makes, you know, he literally felt like he was size me out, okay, is this really the guy I want to spend my time with as Peter Grinland? I'm not sure, really. You know, there was that very kind of like, oh, good impression. I took a little while and then, and then I realized he was, he was the one who was terrified. He was terrified. Really? I mean, I think I can say this, maybe his lawyers will write to me after us, I don't know, but, you know, he was frightened. He didn't, he really thought he wasn't capable of doing it. He couldn't push this iconic, Alex Guinness performance away. He was worried that he hadn't found him and, you know, it became the most amazing friendship out of that, but, you know, yeah, that, that man was frightened. And that, that, to have that vulnerability as an actor and to see that in someone as capable and extraordinary as him, I was like, hooray, okay. We're all the same, really. We're all the fucking same. Yeah, but I mean, like, I like, like, people feel that way about you. Yeah. I think, you know, your body of work is, it's unmatched. Like, I mean, Star Trek, imitation game. I can name them because I've seen them and I love them and, and, and, I'm strange in August or Sage County and the fucking smog. And I mean, you're fucking smog in the habit. I mean, that's crazy to me, to me, you know, and on and on and on. And recently, you know, the roses, I thought, the roses, like, that was, that was a, that was a total minefield. You could have blown yourself up. You want to live here at any moment in that. It was truly impressive. So people feel that way about you too, I think, where, oh, for sure, or you just want to just, you know, if, if you get a job with Benedict Cumberbatch, we know that I'm shissing it. No, that I don't know what I'm doing on a first day. No, that I doubt myself. You know, it's that thing, isn't it? And I, I don't know if you guys have it, but that first day on set where you, you go, you know, here's the crew, they were watching, uh, characters and, directly, you think, oh, maybe they'll give me a second day, but these guys, it's just, they're going, it's Roman right away. And it also, it isn't because the focus pull is shitting it. The fucking clap of what, you know, everyone is doing their job for the first time as a unit, putting stuff on film. Yeah, they're exactly. We have to be a little bit of your own, your own, we all have to figure out how to wash ourselves, right, Sean? That's right. I do want to just having done a show there and let it go. In the back, do you do the same for the back? Show me how you do it. How do you just wash your own, just let me see that. I mean, just see that. Do you need an extender for the Lufa? Because we've got one Scotty. Oh wow, it's a selva's neck. Well, they're so, you're so, you're so nimble. No, but for and theater and in theater and London, they have this thing called and the barb can't they have this thing called cherish notes. And I've never heard of this until I went over there. And I'm like, and I had to ask people in the cast and I'm like, what's cherish cherish notes? Well, we meet every single day, every day before the show on stage. Just check in with each other. Like, can't we do that just backstage in the hall or in the dressing rooms are, yeah, or just in the e that's what I said. Can we just do an email or like a, a, a facts or something? And no, you have to go on stage and every day we'd go on stage and the stage manager would be like, great, I don't have anything. Does anybody have anything to like, no, why are we standing here? I like that. It's I like that. It keeps everybody accountable and reminds you of where you are. Yes, I know, but okay. What do you think about that, Benedict? I think it's quite lovely. And it is quite nice. I'm happy it's quite nice. As long as you're not spending too much time doing that. And as long as there's a moderator, I think what the dangerous thing is, especially in theatre, long run, like there's going to be those moments where something's going a bit strange in a scene or someone's, you know, and then the lines of communication can get very, very fuzzy unless you go through the appropriate channels, which is, you know, the assistant director or the director and say, I'm coming a bit of a problem with the scene. I'm not sure what it's quite working. Whatever it is. If you go in the cherished scenario and go to another actor, you know that bit where you're doing that bit. That means I can't do my bit the way I wanted you to. But that to me is like, oh, here we go. But that's not what cherishing is. Cherishing sounds much nicer than that. But I guess if it becomes, it cherishing is just a positive feedback loop, isn't it? That's what that is. And just looking after each other. But it was nice to see everybody. But if somebody brings up something, is there a one that's trying to save it now? Is it, I mean, everybody in your cast has already, they feel like, fucking, this guy just barely put up here. No, I loved everybody there. Is there enough time to iron out whatever problem somebody might bring? Well, that's what that sort of was. That's what it was. It was, it was, I wasn't used to it here, like in the States, where you kind of, it kind of interrupts your, what you've created for yourself, your rhythm and your routine in the States. And so, and I was like, oh, I have to stop that go up five flights of stairs or down five flights of stairs. Oh, my God. I know. It's terrible. This monster, this gets worse. Five flights of stairs. Yeah. I mean, and you can barely, we know that you can't swim because you can barely catch your breath. And then at the top of the stairs, you had to say something nice about that. Right. I went down the stairs like this. It's just in tub of water. I mean, just get in it. Let me watch you. Is it still hot? Just dip it in. Let me see. Well, I want to talk about, well, Shawnee, do you want to get it in? Shawnee, would you want to talk more about Dr. Strange or Star Trek? Because I'd love to get in in 1917 when you're done. Yeah, no, I mean, look, are you big into fancy? Shawnee? Is that you? Yeah, I'm a huge sci-fi nerd and fan will. He's like, I see you in the face. He's in the fantasy. You should see what he's wearing. For bottoms right now. Is it suit from the waist down? Yeah. So, Shawnee, Shawnee loves. I love Star Trek and the movie Star Trek. Love Marvel. You love Marvel. Yeah, I like Marvel. Scotty loves Marvel. I like Marvel a lot. But I love Star Trek movies. I wasn't a huge fan of the television series like Scott. This guy's massive Star Trek fan. But seeing you on screen as that character, that iconic character, and I don't know. You have this thing about you where you don't, you're so fucking commanding. Yeah, you're magnetic. You're magnetic. You don't have to do a lot and you're just, it's your electric right through the fucking. Do you want to, do you want Scotty to come ask a question? By the way, if Scotty comes on camera and he's covered in French's mustard up and around. Let me see if he's got a question. With Spockiers. Spockiers. But also my massive, massive Lord of the Rings, the Hobbit fan. Like huge. I've seen him a million times those movies and to see right when you popped on today as I guess, I'm like, oh my god. It's such an icon, another icon of character that is mocked, the dragon, that your voice is synonymous with this legendary thing. And Sean, I was going to say this Benedict before you, I've asked people who've done these kinds of things before. You've done a bunch of these different films with, you know, sort of franchises, if you will, but they came out of very well-established, you know, sort of ideas that have a very well-established fan base. And there's a sense of, do you ever feel a sense of responsibility to those legions of fans who existed before you kind of stepped into these roles? Yeah, huge. Very big. And then you have to forget about them. You have to, you have to make a commitment to something that can't please everyone. So that's immediately, if you pay the aggregate game, you're dead in the water to anything original or alive or daring or that asks questions or is worth actually seeing the 78th or whatever I was, a version of Sherlock Holmes, you know, you have to just go, yeah, no, it's going to be all right. And that, it's, it's not arrogance. It's just, you can't have that much head traffic. You just have to focus on doing the job. And so yeah, it's a take on on something. Yeah, I forgot, I forgot about Sherlock too, which is fantastic. Yeah, I loved Sherlock. You were so great in Sherlock. I mean, the list goes on and on. The sky, I mean, you know, you even 35 yet, and the resume is stunning. You know, it's anyway with, with, we're already over time. I've got one last question, though, because it's something to bring you back down to earth, because you're so goddamn good at what you do. What is the, what is the one thing you'd love to be half as good at as you are as an actor? Is there something that surfing, surfing? Oh, wow. Really? Or speaking any foreign. So you try, but you're not great. Exactly that. I'm, I started in my 40s and I'm near the end of my 40s and I'm still feeling like I'm starting, but it, and I had a shoulder operation last year, so I haven't done it at all for about, as you know, this year, for about six months, but I love it. I love it. It's, where did you start it? Weirdly enough in New Zealand when we were using power of the dog, we got shut down because of lockdown and we had the decision to make to stay, which by then, because I had to octogenare in parents, one of whom is a severe asthmatic staying with us as it would happen. My mum and dad and our three very young children at that point, Sophie and her nanny, and we just thought, okay, we're going to stay. And it was a bit scary to begin with, but utterly magical and extraordinary one of the best places on earth to be as it turned out. And there was a little left hand break in Tio Wunga in horse bay, big shout out to Tio Wungans. Anyway, it was where I learnt. Yeah. And I'm goofy actually, so left breaks not as good as a right, but I quite like, no, that's wrong. It must have been a right break. Yeah, because I'm right foot forward. So you're not, you're supposed to be facing the waiver on the facing the shore, but so I learnt really on the wrong way, but loved it every night again, you get it left. And I just, I really fell enough with it. I fell enough with the view of the coastline. I fell enough with that connection to the ocean, that sense of how present you are and the community as well. This extraordinary group of people where all is kind of forgiven as long as you don't take their wave. And the drug dealer would be there and the head of their local police force would be there. It was just that all of human life was around you. And I can't, I can't explain to anyone how's it's served, what that feeling is of nature giving you a ride from somewhere out in the ocean towards the shoreline. It's just magic when it was. And when you get out of the ocean, how do you clean yourself? I'm kidding. What happened to your shoulder, by the way? You got a shoulder surgery? I was so boring. So, so 49. I'm, yeah, 50 to say, but it was 49. When it happened, I bet, well, it's a long time of ill use and done a lot of surfing in very bad conditions and over doing it. I'm probably lifting stuff in the wrong way over the years, not particular. But I basically had a torn retator cuff and then also a frozen shoulder on top of it, which I would have had into, do the repair to the retator, which was a complete tear. And I'd live with chronic pain for about a year and a half, not really realizing that you didn't have to. And I kept on doing physio and being told, no, it'll heal. Just give it time. I'm a patient guy. I'm doing everything you're telling me to do. And I'm still having sleepless nights, getting out like three, four times in the night because I'd rolled over on to it. And it's sunny, just rainy. But it's better now. It's, yeah, it's great. It's great. Oh, look at that. Look at that. Before we let you go, we need to know about the thing with feathers because this, so this new project you guys, you're going to see is if I hadn't said anything about that film. So, no, it's my, it's not how to clean yourself. It's very much the thing with feathers. I mean, I suppose you could use that to clean yourself. It's a pretty cool to how do you clean yourself. Yeah. So this, this, I, I, I, I've, I've only seen the trailer, which is, is looks magical to me. What is it called? The least. The thing with feathers. Okay. It's, it's, I'm not going to ask you to describe because I think that's, that's always frustrating. But it, it seems like there's, there's, there's, you're dealing with loss, but you're dealing with it in a very magical, fantastical way. And it looks like the filmmaking is exquisite. And your performance looks mind-blowing again. Is it, was it something that, that, that you love doing? Very much. And it's something that I'm very proud of. We, I produced it as well. So, oh, well, it's one of those projects that wouldn't really have got off the ground. Well, I would have probably got off the ground, but we, you know, it took a lot of efforts. And it was 10 years in the making. We only came on board in the last sort of year and a bit of it. We being the production company Sonny March, Adam Acklin, Lea Clark and myself. And it was an approach for me to act as, as this dad, this man who, because you were so kind in telling me it could be a real board to describe it. I'm going to describe it very, very briefly. But it's a, it's a man who suffers a very sudden bereavement and of his, he loses his wife and has to bring up his two children as a widow and it's about their first year as a family. And it's based on an amazing, amazing novella called, grief is the thing with feathers. Oh, wow. Which is a misquote of the Emily, Pemis Emily Dickinson line, love is the thing with feathers. By Max Porter, who is just a, a titan of a heroic human being in actual physical stature and in talent, he's, he's a wonderfully kind, brilliant mind. And he's created a space where male grief is examined in the most unimaginably crazy and imaginative way. It's about dealing with it as an acceptance of something you live with and it comes alive. It comes alive in the form of the dad's work, which from the book, maybe the film, but certainly the book more or less is hinted at as being a memory of the boys of what that time was like and you kind of learn that as the story unfolds. But it's a crow, it's a crow that comes fully to life as this horrific entity that's both Mary Poppins to the children and a menu and sister hero, an absolute nightmare, a ferocious noise in the heads, a tormentor and an ally against despair. And it's, it's, it's a huge homage to the literature it was born out of the poetry of Ted Hughes. Now a version, he was an academic at the book in our version. He's an illustrator and his illustration comes to life basically and lives torments and is accepted by this family grieving the loss of their mother and wow, wow, wow, wow. And I can't wait to check it. That's a punchy hour and 40 minutes. And it's, yeah, I don't know, I just, what I was taken with with the trailer is, you know, you all can see, it's, it seems to be done in such a sophisticated cinematic tasteful way. Like, you know, that, you, that can go wrong real quick. If you go, oh, so there's going to be a crow that he's got to talk to. It's like, how does that look? And how is it framed? What's it like? You know, it's just looks so tasteful and, and, and, and, and special. So, uh, congratulations. Well, thank you. I mean, that's, that's mainly down to Dylan Southern who adapted the book and directed it. He's a pop documentarian by tradeazine. That's what he's done up until this point. This is first fictional narrative drama. And, uh, good for you for getting behind him. Well, yeah, I mean, that's one of the things we do at Sunny Munch. We want to promote and platform voices that are coming out of the stocks over the first and, um, very often female lead talent, but also, um, in this case, someone who hasn't originated their work in this medium and he's, he's spectacular. He's a real cineass. He's a real cultural nurse. So, the reference to the Thicken Fars is Kubrick, the Spielberg, there's Hitchcock. There's all sorts of these embedded Jane Campion in their weirdly, but it is just, it's, it's, it's a rich tapestry of imagination and minds coming undone, reflected through a cinematic idea of how that would happen in the culture of these people. So it's, it's the father's imagination and, and that North London 40-something, uh, male-ness, which I know very well. Um, the set in South London, but the big deal, not much difference. And it's just, it's, it's, it's, it was, it was a crazy ride to go on. Very short shoots after 10 years of, uh, of, of creating it and getting it made. So, um, really, before we let you go, uh, I have to ask you about something that I think that you have been attached to, to either be in or to produce or to do something with for a long time, and it's one of my favorite books of all time. Uh, it's an absolute mind-blower for those who have been written, which is, you know what I'm about to say. Rogue male. Rogue male. Oh, dude, it's a winner, isn't it? It's, it's so cool. It is such a game changer of a novel, Rogue male written in 1939. Yeah. It's, it's, I mean, it's the original fugitive novel. Yes. The original and, you know, the huge inspiration for, you know, the, the, the huge inspiration for inflemming for Bond and, yeah. And it's, um, and it's so prescient to what's going on in our times. Not to do that too much. So, this is exactly it. It really is. You know, when we first sat down to try to talk about this, is this a bit of a game? There's not about AI. But it is, is this a bit of a kind of guys film and then the longer we were exploring the themes of it and the motivation behind behind the guys' actions and the outcome and how he's turned on by his own side as well. As obviously the side, he's tried to take down. It's fascinating how it plays into a political spectrum of what's going on in the world now. I don't wanna say too much about it. Could be should read the book and yeah, we will make it. You will make it, definitely. Yeah, we don't, we haven't got a filming date yet, but it's something we're trying to slate for next year, although there are other huge commitments involving cloaks floating about. So yeah. Yeah, be the first guy to watch it. I'll be the first one there. I just wanna say something. I can't wait. Me too. I know what it says to get going on that. That's good. Well, we are you 12 minutes now back into your life. I think I, you were a lot more, because I was very late on, so you know, I mean, nothing. I'm very glad to be. Such a pleasure, honored. Yeah, I want to join. I think you're a really cool idiot. Really cool to meet you. I'm going to meet you all too. I'll thank you. I hope to bump into you again soon. Yes. Tintin, you're successful at it. You too. All right, well, sorry. I've got to say well before we sign off, you were phenomenal in this thing on. Oh, I, I asked Bradley, because I've, they're to give me a link, because search like, wouldn't. Oh, it's not really ready for a link, yeah. I went fucking Bradley, I missed a screening of it, and I know that it's, I can see it. You are so good. It's so tender and real. And that camera is so, I wanted to ask you about how you deal with, it's so close to you all the time, when you're up at that mic. Like, was he shooting on a long lens at any point? Was it really on stage? Did you get in your eye line? I mean, it was, and yet you're utterly in it all the time, it's so moving. It was all in a 40, the whole thing was shot, everything was shot on a 40, the entire film, yeah, on one, on one single lens, and he was, yeah, Bradley was right there, you know, wow, next to me, it was very tense. But thank you very much. It's so impressive, yeah. I'm sorry. It's for anyway. Great work, it's for anyway. Thanks. Anyway, I just wanted to throw that in. It's really good. All right, well, you enjoy the rest of your night. And thank you, and thank you again for doing this, pal. I buy it. We come to Batch. Thank you, Jason. Thank you, Will. Thank you, Sean. You're bad. Take care. We'll see you by, bye-bye. There he goes. Benedict Cumberbatch. I didn't get to so much. That went by very far. Oh, my God. How could you? He's got a million credits. I know, right? Yeah, that was really cool. I mean, are you guys, Lord of the Rings, how about fan? No. I've not seen much. I enjoyed it. Yeah, I love us, movies. So, yeah. He was a voice. Motion capture questions I have here, but I didn't get to them. Yeah, but he could tell. He was just a voice of a dragon, I hear, from questions. Yeah, that is correct. That is correct. But also, you can tell just from talking to him, he's, this sounds really corny to say, but you can tell he's such a massive team player. You can tell he's not, you know, he's a very giving person. He's a very loving guy. You can smell his team spirit. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, nice smells like team team spirit. Oh, I see. Yeah, I'm not sure. No, he's, it's pretty cool how he's a dances between the comedy, the drama, the big, the big Marvel stuff and also like things like that. I know. Cause they come out. I know. Intense, like little sort of really cool niche films and then these massive box office hits. Are you with them also? Are you with them? I think they're now and you can just jump in with them. Listener, Will's building on the clean yourself. Jump in there with them and then you guys together. Yeah. You can clean each other more easily reach the back. You can just do that. Start there. It's in a button or a zipper. I asked. Oh my god. Um, but, uh, hey, Will, was I with you on a plane when we ran into Benedict Cumberbatch? Oh, really? Was I with you on a plane or was it was somebody else? Anyway, I ran into him on a plane once and he was so fucking fine. I didn't run into him on a plane. I don't think, but I ran into him once. I didn't run into it. I didn't say Adam. He was at the Greenwich and he was trying to repack a suitcase in the lobby. Oh, no. And I was like, you know what I'm going to do? I'm going to leave him alone. You know, that's a way I hate looking inside somebody's suitcase. You ever notice that? Why? It opens up a, I feel like there's stuff in there. I don't need to see. Don't want to see, especially not the suitcase on the way to the destination. It's the one coming back where all the dirty underwear is up on top and I'm folded. And it's all just like you just know what you got your face in. I know you are so crazy. You're so crazy about just regular life. You're so crazy. But my biggest luxury, the thing, the one big luxury that I love that I really love treating myself to is doing hotel laundry. Oh, you're just throwing it. You give it, you put it in the bag and let the table. And people are like, oh, I'm not going to do a hotel laundry. I'm going to give me $4 for myself. I'm like, yeah, you know what? I'm going to treat myself. So you do that laundry before you leave the hotel so that when you get home and you want packets already done? Yeah, depending. I mean, the last few, there might be a few items, but I'm not going to like just deprive myself. So you don't go home with all your dirty laundry like the rest of us plebes and throw it in the machine. I often do the bulk of my stuff will be clean. Yeah. I'm not jackassing a bunch of dirty clothes across the world. Yeah, why would you? Yeah, when you got all that money to burn, right? Yeah, I'm going to get extra $12. Oh, is it for a shirt? No, listen, all those, here it comes. Did I meet Benedict Cumberbatch on an airplane, like a jet plane? Or was it a... VIEPLAIN! VIEPLAIN! Have a good idea of VIEPLAIN, but we'll allow it by... Smart. Smart. Smart. Smart. Smart. Smart. Smartless is 100% organic and artisanally handcrafted by Rob Armjurve, Bennett Barbaco, and Michael Granterry. Smart. Loss.