Why AI is the Greatest Equalizer Since the Internet

For an ambitious 27-year-old in India, what's your number one piece of advice? My number one advice by far is to be pot committed to getting educated on what's happening with AI. That opportunity that technology creates is extraordinary. AI is more internet than it is social media. I just can't believe that if I'm a 27-year-old listening in India, which is likely because of how many of them listen to you, that I can sit down and put in 15 hours, 50 hours of homework, research, research, research, and actually build something for real that can change the economic and emotional framework of my life. This is the Gary Vee Audio Experience. I want to start you off by asking, and I've actually wanted to ask this question for three years. I was 27 when I wrote this question down. But for an ambitious 27-year-old in India, what's your number one piece of advice? Well, it's definitely different than three years ago. My number one advice by far is to be pot committed to getting educated on what's happening with AI. Because if you're 27 and you're asking in India, right? And obviously India has, just like the US or other large countries with big populations, you have a broad spectrum of people on the wealth scale or opportunity scale. Technology has always been the great equalizer. And then once we went into the advent of the internet, that Equalizer became even greater. It allowed really anyone. You know, I sit here today in front of you as a very well-known person. That is stunning to me because you're of the age right now when I started my first wine video. You know, you're grown now. It didn't even cross my mind at the age that you're at right now that anyone would ever know me outside of the business world of the wine business and I kind of sensed I would do other things. So that opportunity that technology creates is extraordinary. AI, no question, in my opinion, is the closest thing to the internet itself, even more than social media at some level. Social media is built on top of the internet. No internet, no social media. AI is more internet than it is social media. And I just can't believe that if I'm a 27-year-old listening in India, which is likely because of how many of them listen to you, that I can sit down and put in 15 hours, 50 hours of homework, research, research, research, research, research, and actually build something for real that can change the economic and emotional framework of my life. Yeah, I mean, that's what I would think now, that artificial intelligence is the great leverage. It's the great equalizer. There is so much one can do purely from playing around with that as a tool, and it's going to shape the future in so many ways we have no concept of. But I sometimes do worry as to how overwhelming that can be because I feel like, and this is a thing I've spoken to people who work in A.M. They're like, as soon as we get a hang of A tool, something new comes up and the old thing is completely different. That's right. The cascade is so heavy, it's so strong. That's tough for someone who's a well-funded startup that's trying to sell their thing for a trillion dollars. That has nothing to do with the average 27-year-old in India. That's the actual advantage of the average 27-year-old in India. I as an investor am very hesitant to invest in anything in AI because it can get outflanked the next day by a super scaler or another competitor. So it's dangerous for the people that have historically had advantage. Sure, yeah, right. But what you just said is the great opportunity of the 27-year-old that does not have an advantage. Right. So in a personal sense, there is alpha and just getting to know artificial intelligence is very useful. Yes. As a company, there might not be, because you might get outflanked tomorrow in the way that developments happen. What the internet did that I understood and that AI is doing that I also understand is outside of a small percentage, these technologies are more of a Robin Hood game. What do you mean? It's advantage for the poor, not the rich. The internet, sure, there were some incumbent big companies that took advantage of it, but we are now sitting here 25 years later, you know 20, 30 years later of the beginning of what really is the consumer web the consumer web created way more fortunes for the ones that would have never had a chance me included because I would have been successful but I would have 17 liquor stores right now on the east coast and that would have been awesome but this allowed me to really flex AI is going to create incredible wealth for Mark Zuckerberg, Elon Musk, blah, blah, blah. And everyone's paying attention to that. What I think they're missing is the long tail that AI is gonna create for the average 27-year-old in rural India who's now gonna make $40,000 a month because of AI and would have never been remotely close to that is a profound view that I have that I'm aware is in the minority because at this current second, the majority has decided to focus extraordinary amounts of energy on the downside of AI. And it will be like any other technology. There will be upside and downside. But I think it is far more balanced than the current temperament of the conversation. You think that that is true for some of the entrepreneurial ones and because there is a serious concern of job loss, particularly in a country like India where we do a lot of IT services. and that accounts for a lot of the GDP we have where we're coding software or we're providing software services. One of the fears that people have is what if that gets wiped out? That's a proper fear. What do you mean by that? That is correct. I would be scared of that. Yeah, you would be. But no one in India right now is crying for Pittsburgh in America. But as we went away from the Industrial Revolution, Pittsburgh and Columbus, Ohio got fucked. Right. I'm sorry. that you were born at a time where you as a 26 year old engineer might have walked into a time period where technology decided to do something. On the flip side, I have met, because I grew up in Edison, New Jersey, and have been in tech, unlimited rural city Indian kids from the 80s, 90s, and 2000s who their dreams came true because they were engineers and their timing for their skill was good. I remind the kid that's listening right now and thinks that they're getting fucked that you use your natural DNA skills to deploy it against engineering and if that is no longer your best option you will take your natural, brilliant, mathematical engineering skills and deploy it against something else. So is the idea that the anxiety that this AI wave is creating the solution is just patience? Is that what you're saying? I would say action. and lack of ideology, and the elimination of crying about something you don't control. And by the way, if you're an entrepreneur, you said entrepreneurs and their employees is one thing, but if you're an entrepreneur, and you're crying about the current state of the market, you're not an entrepreneur. Well, for sure. For sure. For sure. If you're an employee, respect. But if you're an entrepreneur, and you're crying about AI, I have good news for you. You exposed a truth that I'm glad you learned early on. You are not an entrepreneur. You're a two cent wannabe entrepreneur. Right. Right. You got something small figured and if you're worried. Brother, I'm cooking. We're exploding. I'm at the prime of, I've been building for 15 years. We finally fucking won. And every day I have to think about what AI commoditizes in my company, which is plenty. Does it commoditize content and personality in social media? Yes. It does. It will, it will over time. It will, maybe not this nanosecond, but it will commoditize much. It might commoditize my greatest asset, which is I've been a very good thinker. And it might commoditize that. It might, I mean, I've put out a, surely I've put out enough public content that you could put all of it into an LLM and ask to predict what I'll think about things going forward in perpetuity, it might. So then I'll become an electrician, I don't know. Like I'm being dead serious, I know everyone just giggled. Like, if I have to become a plumber, I don't think that I am too fancy to not become a plumber. I see what you mean. If I've signed up for entrepreneurship, I must be prepared for entrepreneurship to kill me. Hey, everybody. Hope you're enjoying the podcast right now. Make sure you follow the podcast. That's why I'm interrupting. Let's keep going on this show, but follow the podcast. It'll make my mom super happy. That's hardcore. I think so. Yeah. But I truly believe that every real entrepreneur, when they just heard that sentence, were like, fuck yes. Because you can't be in love with a game for what it gave you and then change how you feel about that game if it might hurt you. Then you were never in love with the game. Correct. You were in love with the things you thought you could get out of the game. Right. Or you were lesser of a version of a player in that game than you thought you were. Your timing was good for your skill set. Do you have a speculation on what might exist outside AI in that? One of the bets I'm making is that personality itself as a, say, is a moat, right? I agree. And I think the moat will only broaden because a lot of the other stuff, information can be commoditized, but personality and sort of that kind of thing is not commoditizable. Correct. I think over time, I do think it'll be interesting to see what happens with AI and virtual and do we even care? if a person's real or not? I'm gonna make a statement right now. I don't think we care. I don't think so either. Well, then that starts to create issue for us because then there's a supply and demand issue. If you can create 7,000 derivatives of my personality trait and they might be more attractive and they might be even more clever, like what then starts to happen? What I will say is, you and I are very fortunate. I do believe that AI does have, this is gonna counter what I said earlier because they're both true. I do think AI hurts the middle the most. And that the 27 year old with nothing to lose putting in the work really gets upside. And I actually think people like you and I who put in the work also get the upside. Because we already have awareness and affinity towards us. And I think the rise of access is about to be very significant. I believe analog access as I've been calling it in my head recently. I said to buy the URL or AJ or someone but it was AJ it wasn't available I tried to register analogaccess.com because I think this is a term analog access the real world and getting access to me and you the human I think is about to explode in value right I for example can lose everything and probably can survive by just charging people for a one hour meeting with me one on one for the rest of my life I prefer not it's not how I want to monetize, but if all else failed, if AI ate up everything, I agree with you that being a personality has value and I think the monetization is gonna happen outside of the extreme digital environment in decades to come. So you mean a lot of these events and these meetups and that kind of stuff. That's right. And it's people like me who can build frameworks of extreme digital output and have humility and the personality trait to want to be with people in analog that are gonna have tremendous upside in the generation we're coming to. It must, however, still get you a little, like I just, I still don't imagine a world where you can be as optimistic as you tend to be about things that you are not a little scared about how this is happening. Because it's just so. Please don't confuse optimism with naivete. Sure. There's nothing I've ever thought about that I thought were 100% gonna be great. you know like the internet MySpace I see Friendster and then I see MySpace quickly I'm like oh my god and then very quickly I'm like oh like kids are on this like you could get kidnapped like that was the year of that like I've never looked at anything I am not naive I'm not delusional I am practically optimistic and humans have given me that benefit our human behavior has given me that. People are coming with opinions based on their own fear. You know why most people hate AI? Because they're scared it's going to cost them money. Fundamentally. Period, end of story. There's nothing else to say. Almost every opinion I'm hearing is completely predicated on that person's point of view on how it's going to affect them financially. They will then disguise it as a noble venture of humanity. but I know them too well. Right? By the way, I'm empathetic about that. People have bills to pay. People have responsibilities. Tough shit. Like, nobody in 1930 wanted, nobody who was born, let's do this one, nobody who was born in 1900 signed up for two fucking world wars before they turned 45. Yeah. And if you lived in America, two world wars, a great depression. Like, what's happened is, all of this is happening. Let's say all of this. We have AI, which is massive, and we'll reset the deck. And geopolitical unrest at a scale that we're not accustomed to on the back of 30 to 40 years of global prosperity. Right. That's fair. That's so right. So it's not confusing why everyone's crying about shit, but it doesn't mean that entitlement has not seeped into society at a scale that does not make us prepared emotionally and mentally for adversity Collectively Unlimited people listening have had unlimited adversities But collectively eight people eight billion people deep This has been a very remarkable 40 years of prosperity. Economically, emotionally, everything is better. And so I understand why everyone's anxious. If anyone's born in the 90s, 80s, and they've only ever experienced that era of prosperity, I mean, I sometimes find it so strange what's happened to the world since COVID. Like, I think that was an important sort of bookmark. Yeah, I think you're right. I think people will point to it. Right. But I think, and I can see how good of a thinker you are, then people will, like, the next level intellect will point to the pieces were put in place already. How do you mean that? Well, the world acts very differently when there's one superpower versus when there's two. Right. so the US and the Soviet Union fighting created a lot of dynamics then you had a period where the Soviet Union fell and the US was the only superpower so China's rise and different points of view and those things with Putin's rise of his level of you know leadership and what he wants to accomplish to bring back the Soviet energy like you know no COVID I don't think things are as different as maybe people will think yeah yeah I don't think COVID per se has a lot of consequence in this, but that was 2019 towards the end is when the world started changing in a way. Like the world was very different before. No question. I'm a global pandemic. I mean, just everybody being capable of having Zoom meetings changed the world. Yeah, right. Just that. Right. Just that. That is no question. Just that. It changed where people live, which changes how geopolitics play. No, no question. But there's a lot. I mean, you know, leaders of the 10 most important countries in the world are always an incredible variable of how the world works. Just like a company and like a family. The personality traits of a mother and father dictate exactly what's going to happen with a family, right? Right. The CEO of a, you said something so interesting, I don't think on the podcast right before we started. My office is literally a representation of me. I can hear your voice. You know, so, yeah, I mean, America is a representation of two terms of Donald Trump. You know, Russia is a representation of 20 years of Putin. China is a representation of what communism is. The UAE is a representation of a monarchy. Monarchies are beautiful when the CEO is good. What happens when it's sixth generation not good? There's a reason monarchies always, and by the way, democracy is a modern experiment. Yeah, in the way that it's shaped today, it started only 150, 300 years ago. It's crazy. Yeah, 300, that's it. It's absurdly fascinating. It's also fascinating that people are suddenly having that broader conversation because about seven, eight years ago, democracy was a taboo you didn't touch and discuss beyond just how good it is. Particularly in America, when I was a student here, it's one of those cornerstones you don't touch. Yeah, blind. But now suddenly you hear all these conversations about entertaining other formats of government also. And I don't want to get bogged down in geopolitics quite a lot. I think the AI angle is much more interesting. Well, the reason I'm actually talking geopolitics, which I also don't like talking about, is because I think the AI conversation is intertwined. Yeah, I agree. Like when everyone's, back to optimism, people paint me as optimistic, I paint myself as practical. I mean this, with an ounce of optimism. And let me explain why. When I'm in dinner meetings where this conversation, you get around successful and intellectual people, inevitably late night meetings are really fun because you get into real shit, right? When I am countered, and sometimes because of my practical with a ting of optimism, in a world of cynicism and fear, I tend to be on my own island sometimes. I was in a dinner the other day with incredibly successful, incredibly thoughtful individuals, And it was four on one, four against me. And their collective take was, this is going to be, this is it, the end. And I asked them very simply, have you heard of governments? Right. At what place does India, China, America and Russia allow for 30, 40% unemployment? It's just not gonna happen. It's not gonna happen. Regulation's gonna hit hard, yep. There is a competing force, it's not just one way. There's not one, I'm just a little bit decent at social studies and history, and I'm aware that when you start getting into double digits, by the way, COVID, look what happened during COVID. The US printed unlimited money, gave it to everybody, and everybody bought fucking Louis Vuittons and Nikes and Dom Perignon. So people talk about bullshit, and then their actions are double bullshit. If all these companies are gonna ruin the world, they're gonna be stopped by the government, I argue, final point on this, that we might be seeing the beginning of extreme capitalism, which creates a variant of socialism. Say more. Sure. If you're a capitalist and a free market guy, which I am, if the 17 companies, the super scalers, are gonna win because of AI, I'm like, good. Good. Okay. If you believe in free market, and you believe in like, let merit reign, like, good. Tesla, Microsoft, Facebook, Google, Anthropic, like, okay, you were the best. And you put Adobe and IBM and GE and VaynerMedia out of business. Mazel Tov, you won. If that's true, and that happened, and now you have 18, 43, 97, 16 companies that got all the economics, the governments are going to tax those people so much that the masses of society are gonna only have to work two, three days a week and get subsidized with the checks from those taxed so that there's not social unrest because we will not have 20, 30, 40% unemployment because when you have 20, 30, 40% unemployment you have coup d'etats. Yeah, you have political chaos, you have riots on the streets, it's just not gonna happen. So what are we talking about? Right. Yeah, I think the second order thinking people are not doing with sort of the fear. Because the first wave will hit and a lot of people will lose their jobs and it's happening. It's happening right now. Right? But eventually when it gets too much, regulation will be the counterforce. That's right. Now, all my big thinking here doesn't help someone that just got laid off by Oracle yesterday. Right. That's why I don't spend a lot of time talking about what I just talked about. What I spend a lot of time on is make content for LinkedIn. Because if you got fired from Oracle yesterday, if you've listening to me? You got hired today by Adobe or Google. Right. It's a weird world where talent is short. You're looking for great talent everywhere and great talent is being laid off at the same time. I think it's a matching problem at this point. I could not agree more. Yeah. The problem is you can't be discovered if you're not making content. It's such a new thing. I mean, it was about brand building initially, but now it's just about being seen. Or you're just left out. This has been something that I'm incredibly going to be proud of being as historical correct as I was. for 20 years in some different variant, I have said attention is the asset. I have a question. Please. Do you think the way, and so let me start you off with this. You've been talking about how social media is dead and social media is dead in a way that now it's interest media. The algorithms define a lot of how people consume and it's no longer about who you follow. The algorithms do not define what people consume. This is very important. The algorithms will follow you to make sure you stay on. Say more. This is the great misunderstanding in society right now. The algorithms don't give a fuck. The algorithms care about one thing. Consumption. You staying on. That's right. Right. Retention. Right. Ready? Yeah. If you do not like your algorithm and you think your algorithm controls you, you go into the search bar and you type in soccer and football and UFC and rainbows and it will change like this and if you then like and comment and zoom in and engage with that content, your algorithm the next day will be about UFC and Mo Salah. Yeah, true. So the algorithm does not control shit. Facebook does not make you consume porn or surfing or coffee or Gary Vee. You and your actions. The fact that society has not figured out in one second they can go to the search bar and completely change their algorithm. It's hilarious. Is more about the people, not the platforms. Right. Right. Having said that, however, as a producer, as somebody who's killed in the last two years, we went from practically less than a million views a month to, what, 100 million views a month. And having done all of this, there is a secret law of doing content that is dictated by the algorithm in a certain way. My title thumbnails have to be shaped a certain way. I have to front load my content in a certain way. Yes, but that evolves. And by the way, so did the printing press and television. The fuck is a 23-minute video? Right, sure. Every television show is based on the fact that networks need to run seven minutes of commercials every 30 minutes. Is a proper story supposed to be told in 23 minutes? Is a proper story supposed to have a cliffhanger before a commercial so that you don't change the channel and you stay on that show? That's how the world has always worked. I agree. But does it not shape the way... Do you know that... I'm sorry to interrupt. It's important. Yes. Do you know that people deemed art that were on canvases not art? when Canvas was first invented, that art was only when it was done on buildings. Interesting. The distribution has always been the restrictor. Yeah. So you- And by the way, if I may, because now I'm rolling, we're doing a podcast. There's also video. There's also Substack and Beehive. You can write if you do not want to do video. There is unlimited optionality. There's AI animation now. Your form factor of communication and content, you have so much optionality. You're just talking about best practices of the current second on social media platforms. And as you know, because you guys have scaled, they're also nuanced within that. Seven words with no pictures or video are over-indexing for me on Facebook. I see what you mean. Right, and so there is best practices in the current moment. Right, and I would argue social media is more merit-based than the old world. It's changing constantly. Whereas the old world was stock and stop. Why are movies two hours? I wanna watch nine hour movies. I want to watch nine hours of Star Wars. Netflix proved it. When Wednesday Addams came out, I watched all eight episodes with my kids. That was an eight hour movie I watched. Sure. What I'm saying is that we have created rules and more importantly, we have created judgment on social media that we do not deploy to every other aspect of the world. Why are we not mad at alcohol right now? Do you know if you drink tons and tons of alcohol every day, you will be in trouble? Yeah. Okay. Yeah, I'm not angry at it. That's a solid point. I'm not angry at it. Correct, so if you're fucking mad at TikTok, which is banned in your country, if you're mad at Instagram or YouTube, get off the device. Where? Turn off the wifi. Where is human discipline part of the equation? I am addicted to processed sugar. I, Gary Vaynerchuk, am addicted to processed sugar. When I walk by Hudson News at the airport yesterday and I see a Hershey's bar, my chemicals bounce. Is that Hershey's fault? Is that America's USDA law's fault? Or is it my fault? You can say all three, that's fine. But you know what's happened? We've decided to leave the last part out. Our selves. Yes sir. And that is the great pandemic and that is the great crisis of our society right now. And that is why we're listening to political leaders and to influencers peddling dumb shit because we have lost our own self-regulation and our own self-esteem and discipline and capacity. Sure, I follow all of that. I have an agreement with all of it. But you know. If you're in agreement with all of it, if you're in agreement with all of what I just said, even bringing up the word but, starts to change the variable. Okay, so I'm in 90% agreement with what you're saying. Keep going. Let me give you 10%. I do think that there is a certain incentivization in content production that leans on the side of needless polarization. But by the way, I agree with that. But that's something everybody has to, who makes that content, I agree with that 90-10%. But that's a couple things. I don't have any interest in doing that. Sure. I don't do that. Right. Right? Right. We agree, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. So that's how I want to sleep at night. That's what you mean. Like, if somebody wants to sleep at night, like, we have, like, again, two things on that equation. the person that makes that content to create polarization for their own self-interest, that person has to sleep at night. But I have no interest to judge that man or woman. Because if you sell sugar, processed sugar, I'm not going to judge you either. Or alcohol. In fact, my father does sell alcohol. You know, like, correct. And I believe in selling alcohol. It's legal. And I can't control someone's consumption of that. Right, if I was in control of the world, everybody would go to a therapist all the time until they have actual self esteem. That would be the, no school. From six to 18, no school. 100 therapy around self esteem and insecurity I would solve the world No school Fuck Saturn and the periodic table which mean absolutely nothing 12 years from 6 to 18 of true human development. Self-reflection. Self-esteem, self-esteem, self-esteem, self-esteem, kindness, empathy, compassion, work ethic, accountability, what I'm doing with VFriends. So, you know, I don't know. So I agree with you. Do I believe that people peddle shit that is detrimental to humans for their own self-interest? What revelation do you think you're talking about? This is the story as old as time. The fuck you think the first books were? They were religious institutions that control people. What are we talking about here? As much as things change, nothing changes. It's very interesting you bring up self-esteem. I'm curious, what is hurting this self-esteem? What is the reason why all young ones have to be in self-esteem training? What is the- Modern parenting. You think modern parenting is, by process of it, hurting self-esteem? Yes, sir. How, by competition and all those things, or is there something else there? Modern parenting, on the back of 50 years of prosperity, have started to focus on things that are silly. Like? The thing they always did, keeping up with the Joneses, materialism, some of the downs, I love entrepreneurship. What are the downsides? Materialism. Wanting to buy a BMW. Wanting to, you know, everything. Like, humans. He's wearing a Harvard hoodie. Why? That's asking, why? I know why. And I respect it. But it is how humans work. We communicate. Why am I 50 dressed young and casual? No different than his. My cap is his Harvard hoodie. And somebody else's watch. and somebody else's BMW, modern parenting has kept up with the Joneses and become more materialistic. Modern parenting is less communal. In the 50s and 60s, 70s, when I was growing up in the 80s in New Jersey, 20 minutes away, my three best friends, their mothers were my mother. If I did something at Robbie Turnick's house that was wrong, Eleanor Turnick smacked me. And no one was like, I'm gonna sue you and all that, right? in fact my mother said thank you could you imagine today if somebody's friends parents smacked a child I think it's still very real in India I think I've been smacked by my friends as parents in certain parts of India and you're 30 now so now we're 20 years 20 years away correct and I don't know where you grew up and all that stuff right but in the upper echelons of financial superpowers 20 years ago in Mumbai less than in the rural parts Right? We just know. Prosperity leads to softness. It does. Good times create weak men. Weak men create bad times. That kind of stuff. Such a fucking good sentence. And it's so goddamn real. And it's no one's fault. And I have no judgment. It just is. And so modern parenting values different things. I'll give you another one. Back to smacking and grounding. Children, by most part today, have less circumstances where they are paying the price or being held accountable or dealing with the consequences of bad behavior. So they're getting away with more. Correct. Yes. Because parents today have overreacted to the generation of their parents and they want to be friends with their children instead of being friendly. Yeah. That's spot on, dude. That's spot on. I see it. And I see it because, not because of focus group of one or seven parents I know, because I get 10 to 25,000 DMs a week, a day, you know, like I get ungodly amounts of feedback and because of what I talk about, I get it and I read a lot of it randomly and now I have AI to be able to sum up what I'm getting, like, you know, with Mayonnaise, do you know how insane Mayonnaise is? You mean Mayonnaise as in the condiment? No, I mean Mayonnaise, M-A-N-U-S. Oh, okay, okay, okay. Sorry for my accent. Right, no, no, it's okay. Meta's AI layered on all that data within Instagram and Facebook is insanity. I've been dangerous for the last 15 years because I really pay attention. Now I have a tool that allows me to pay attention at a level that no human brain could have ever paid attention to. This is a human weaponizing or using AI. I'm accelerating what I'm great at. Now, it's also commoditized. All of you, I was willing to put in the work and actually be on a flight for three hours and read everything. The fact that you can now get a summary of your DMs, like that commoditizes my work ethic. I'm gonna have to put my work somewhere else. However, I'm very good at processing the information that I consume. So even if you and I look at the same report, will we both have the same observation? I don't think so. AI can't take away everything. But it will take away a lot. On the issue of parents and kids, one of the more classic problems, and I think Sid will relate to this, where I come from, is that a lot of parents spend their entire lifetime getting out of poverty. They sacrifice everything they have to make sure their kids get a good education and some of them end up like sitting myself and we find good education and good opportunities and so on and so forth. But then, very often, this trade-off occurs where kids, they want to pursue their passion. They've listened to you. They've listened to the fact that you have to go all in on a game. Yes, on the record, unlimited Indian parents have sent me very scathing DMs because I've changed the course of their child from being an engineer and a doctor and now they're trying to do a rock band video game. And so I apologize to all one billion people. Good news, everyone in India. I am from the Soviet Union and Russian parents don't like me either and nor do Asian parents and nor do any parent that is so insecure that they want their children's accomplishment to reflect on them amongst their circles. Well, that is one form of concern. The other one in areas where opportunities are restricted is actually, like I'll give you an example. You said rock band. I met a guy who was trying to start a rock band in India in 2021. Okay. I was like, bro, you're 40 years behind. There is no way you are able to run. Maybe you are that one band that's going to make money doing rock music in a country that has very little to do with rock music. But I think it's a shot. Like I think you'd be better off having enough money so you can feed your family. Would he be better off or when he's 87, him going through those 37 months of failure, allowing him to never regret in his 70s, 80s, and 90s that he should have tried to follow his passion? Is it better than having 20 to 30 years of your late years be grounded in the occasional, if not often, thoughts of I should have? Follow, but what about all the way until those late years? I have regret for the fact that I just do not have sufficient means to put my kids through the right education or to buy the stuff that I want to buy. I think it counterbalances, no? I think, no, I don't think so. No? I think both the things you brought up are dog shit. Okay. That's keeping up with the Joneses, you think? That kind of stuff? I do. Okay. I think everyone can live within their means in the world. Because they do. Most people that don't have a home have a mental health issue, not a financial issue. and everybody else lives within the home that they can afford with their financial status. And let me remind you, and this is what's so great about so many Indian immigrants, especially from rural places, there's unlimited, I'll just go very narrow to your world, but this is true for any group, South America, Asia. There is unlimited third world countries or third world like country, parts of countries, we have it in America too, there's parts of this country that are incredibly poor that know people who have very little financial capabilities who have happy lives. I have a funny feeling that somebody in your great uncles or great grandparents had very little by the standards we're defining money who were joyous and happy and wonderful people. Dirt poor. Dirt poor. Dirt poor. By the way, just to remind you, I think you know this, when I came to America in 1978, I lived out there, not too far from here, in Queens, in a studio apartment, roughly the size of this office, with six or seven, depending on which family members were moving around, and I had unlimited joy in my childhood. We had dog shit. So, you know, A, I listened carefully to what you say. Buy the things you want to buy. What? A hoodie? A fucking video game? A Mercedes? And then send your kids to school? What school? What world are we living in? I can promise you right now, the invention of AI has created more opportunity for kids in dirt poor India than Harvard or MIT. Now we're asking our question, why? I will say that in Indian culture, in Asian culture, in Eastern European Russian culture, three cultures I understand very well, a shocking percentage of the energy that is dictating what is coming out of parents' mouths is how their children will be viewed by society, which is a reflection on them. They use their children as tools for their own insecurities and self-esteem, and the advice they are giving does not factor in how the world turns. How about all the parents that forced their kids to be dev engineers over the last decade who are now 18 years old? How are they feeling about the fact that my business partner, David Rodalitz, over at Fly Fish Club, built an app last night that is incredibly good, he wouldn't know how to fucking build a website three years ago if I paid him a trillion dollars. So how are all the kids that were forced by their aunt because their actual father is in the US on a work assignment at Microsoft and he went to MIT and this kid who had unbelievable creative superpowers and could have created incredible joy in art, whether in the culinary or music or some sort of artistic execution has been suppressed for five years to learn how to fucking code so you can have a real job and achieve all those things. How the fuck is that 18-year-old feeling right now? Cheated. He's feeling cheated. Yeah, it is true. I mean, I have nephews who are feeling cheated. You know, they're telling me they're graduating out of college and one of them said, my dad told me all his life if I'm a good engineer, it's gonna work. And I'm like, you're dealing with something far more existential than not getting a job right now. you're dealing with growing up, you're realizing your parents are wrong and that happens. Sometimes, and I think a lot of this has to do with kids being too afraid to admit their parents might be wrong. Yeah, and listen, there's nothing, listen, I grew up that way. There's nothing more beautiful than being ideological about your parents. I love that. I'm so happy for that. And I'm empathetic for that moment where you're like, wait a minute. You know, like, that's a- Even they're figuring it out. Yeah, of course. But you know this, from 18, and you're still in it even, I would say from 18 to 30 is when you're like, Wait a minute. And then from like 30 to 40, you start to become incredibly empathetic and compassionate towards your parents. I had that at 23. I remember that moment. I was actually here in New York. Are you a parent? No, not yet. Well, let me tell you. Congratulations. Let me tell you, brother. You have another really fun chapter coming your way. That's what my wife keeps telling me. Well, she's right. But I'm telling you, for the way you view your parents, I also was incredibly emotionally intelligent, had all sorts of feelings towards my parents, devoted the first 12 years of my, I'm Gary Vee. And I've known I've been Gary Vee since I was fucking 10 years old. I, Gary Vee, not regular chap, I devoted the first 12 years of my entire life professionally to my parents. That's how much I love them. That's how much I understood them. I was intertwined into their lives. They're only 20 years older than me. I hear you. And so, I promise you, you have a great gift coming. whatever thing you went through at 23 wait till your child is 15 yeah I'm super romantic about my family all the awards I ever win go to my dad's bedroom that's where they're supposed to be you know somebody asked me recently did your parents contribute to your journey financially I said no money's worth the encouragement they gave me when I told them I was doing interviews on the internet my dad's a lawyer he was like what are you doing are you sure about it okay do it for six months tell me how it goes It's incredible. And you know this. Coming from the cultures we come from, that's a rarity. That's not a common. No, no. So you become double grateful that your parents, I mean, same for me. I was a terrible student. Every Russian immigrant was, all they talked about was, if you didn't get to Harvard, like if you went to NYU, that was a disaster. That's a failure. Right? Right. I, like if I went to NYU, that would have been like I went to triple Harvard plus that might, I mean, that's how bottom of the rung I was but my mother gave me the freedom at a time with no internet, no pointing to people being successful from entrepreneurship and society. Wasn't even a conversation. Never even heard the word until my 20s. She gave me the freedom to be me and so I know what you feel. I feel the same way. You know, what's also true for our cultures is it tends to be risk averse. And so a lot of my peers grow up wanting to avoid losing money than actually taking bets to make large sums of money and money being just a scoreboard. I get it, I get it, I get it. What do you say to that? How does one change their mindset? It's a really fun question. It's hard. I would say that a lot of this is hard wiring. You know, there's a DNA thing. There's a culture thing. If you grow up in an environment where your natural DNA is to not be entrepreneurial or offense oriented and then it's reinforced by your parents of like get a steady job, be an engineer, you'll always have a steady job. You have deep therapy and deep emotional work to become more risk interested. I would also argue risk interested just means you have higher capacity for massive upside Sure Again I such a big fan of being comfortable of who you actually are versus trying to be someone you're not. I have no interest in convincing anyone to be like me, except for one thing. Be like me in that I've been truly me the whole time. And so if you're a doctor, amazing. if you're a stay-at-home father. Very taboo still in many societies. A stay-at-home father? But if your soul is a stay-at-home father and you do that and you deal with the judgment of your father-in-law. Imagine being a stay-at-home father in Indian culture. Yeah, I knew that would land for you boys. You're fucking dead. You're dead. Damn, dude. Right? But if you're listening right now and your goal in life is to be a stay-at-home father, not because you're looking for a sugar mama, but because you have been so affected and wired by your circumstances that you want to raise your children day in and day out as a man from India who's gonna have to deal with unlimited judgment of your contemporaries and most of all your in-laws. And often maybe even your own wife. Well, then you're me. it was not very easy to be a child of the 80s and being told you're stupid, you're the R word. I got D's and F's. But I just knew who I was. And I was willing to deal with every ounce of collateral damage to live the life I wanted and then I got fortunate that the world came into me. The reverse of everyone who was told to be an engineer now and getting caught. That has to be a superpower, brother. You know what's funny? It is a superpower, but it's actually an old school superpower. I think it's a throwback superpower. Just think back with the way the world was in the 20s, 30s, 40s, 50s. You didn't know that many people. There was not that much judgment. You just kind of lived, right? Sure, in town and it felt the same way as a million people, but you know this. It's not a superpower when it comes so natural to you. Just like all the superheroes that we all look up to, they were born like that. Or they got bit by a spider or whatever. I know what you mean by that if sort of oh you want to show the report card reference it like three times yeah yeah this is my report card from high school let me see it yeah this should help everybody who's listening in India this should help you go to the bottom show my class rank bottom left bottom left it says four years GPA 1.67 class rank 243 class size 254 11 yeah you want to see it you want to get this on the camera 11 11 people just 11 people behind you what are they doing? do you have any recollection? not great stuff listen listen I say this all the time like not everyone who's bad at school is gonna go on to do incredible things they have to be they have to be wildly entrepreneurial or wildly creative if you don't have those things being bad at school is a mitigator to something in the middle because if you're not good at school and you're not entrepreneurial and you're not wildly creative. Correct. You need to be some different thing. If you're not extremely good at those things, it of course often leads to not as much financial or professional success. It does not mean you won't be happy. I actually have a very strong point of view on this. You think these things are different? Yeah, because I think simplicity leads to enormous amounts of happiness, bro. And you don't need a lot of money or success for that. I think that's been proven. I don't think I'm saying anything profound. I don't think it's where the temperament of our society is. I'm actually looking forward to it. I actually think everything we're going through is gonna lead to a movement of simplicity. Like more offline, less comparison, less noise. And not only offline, just like offline and looking to live within your means of $57,000 a year in rural Costa Rica and working at the farm stand and like loving your life. Right. Right, so identifying with the quality of your life as opposed to your lifestyle. Yes, and your lifestyle for sure are not being predicated on people's judgment of your lifestyle. Do you think that is the reason why people often anchor their ambition to wealth? 100%. I believe the whole game is self-esteem versus insecurity. There is nothing else. Say more. I believe life is one simple game of people that are, and obviously there's, but on the extremes, pure self-esteem versus accelerated pure insecurity, and wherever you sit is how your life is, and if you have pure self-esteem, pure. You are truly confident within your own skin and people's outside opinions penetrate you little. You're not delusional. You intake people's information but you do not internalize it as truth. You process it to make sure that you're not delusional and you use it as a normal balanced human. That if you are there, whether you make 10 million a year or you make 10,000 a year, you are going to win. You're going to win the happiness game. What else is there? you know what I also often thought is that ambition and maybe it's true I sometimes reflect and I think my ambition comes from a certain injury to self-esteem do you think that's generally the case do you think there's another source for ambition yes extreme insecurity yeah right that's what I mean so insecurity is the source for ambition and extreme confidence and extreme confidence also leads to ambition yes I feel like I'm supposed to in a good way and if I don't, it's okay. But I feel like I'm a, you know, in the summer, I always bring this analogy up. You know the flies that go into the light and get zapped? I am not able to stop myself from doing what I'm doing. And it is not because I want Sid to think I'm cool. Or I'm going to prove it to the girl that didn't like me in fourth grade or my father or my daughter. I'm doing it because it is my destiny. my father would tell me both my parents would tell me and I think they did this beautifully I hope parents around the world listen to this and think of it they would tell me constantly that I'm special and I'm made for great things yes and the way that's led to me saying yes to things that are bigger and more scaled rather than smaller and more insecure that has shifted massively as a function of being told consistently as a kid that you're special I think it did wonders for my self esteem and I think in that you're right confidence does lead to a lot of ambition And I got it the best way. I'm curious. It sounds like you might have too. I'm just, but you'll let me know. Me too. My mom told me I was a star my whole life. But I had consequences for bad behavior. Oh, of course. Well, don't say that. Because a lot of parents, this is modern parenting. You're a star, you're a star, star. You're a crackhead. You're like doing bad things. And your parents are like, you're a star, you're a star. Because they just want to, they believe delusional self-esteem will work itself out. self-esteem building, confidence building with consequences is the great balance. I'm a star, I'm a star. I got back, by the way, those grades, I was grounded for two weeks, no television, no friends, no phone, no video games, consistently four times a year. And never did I think my mother thought of who I was going to be because of my grades, but I had to pay the price because my job was to be a student. And when I under-delivered, I paid the consequences. I think there was benefit to being scared of my father for that reason. Yeah, you know what's funny? Man, I was scared. Brother, you'll appreciate this. This is back to the extreme of what I'm saying. Forget about fear. How about disappointing the person you love the most in the world? Watching my mom be disappointed, I'm emotional right now. It broke my heart to upset my mom four times a year. But I was going to the light. I couldn't. There was nothing that could happen. Even for my mother, the greatest, most important thing for me, I must go to school today and sell lollipops and baseball cards, work on my marketing, work on my people skills. Nothing that's happening in the classroom has anything to do with me. And how did they relate to your success in later life? How did they see that? Who, my parents? Yes, your parents. My parents knew it the whole way. It was too obvious. Right. What's more interesting is my teachers rewrote history. My relatives rewrote history. Fair. Right. Fair. And this is what I tell people when they're betting on something. Right out of college particularly, I'm like, listen, you have a few years to go for the moon. Right? Nobody expects nothing off of you. Go hardcore. You know that's my biggest thesis. Right. High risk, high reward in your 20s. Right. And what happens is every single person who once said your video looks cringe or this idea is stupid, they will rewrite history in their own head and tell the story in a completely different way. I had a teacher at the Javits Center during a book signing who was my English teacher who said to my face I was stupid. while I was crowded by 50 people after a speech of my latest book come up to me and I recognized her right away and I thought I was gonna have this fun moment where I was like, can you believe, and I'm like, I'm so empathetic to what she was thinking. I had no resentment or anger. I thought we were gonna have a laugh of like, can you believe the, she completely rewrote it in front of everyone. She's like, I always knew. I'm like, you, I'm too gracious. I'm funny. I was too gracious. I bit my tongue because I didn't want, because we were amongst 50, 60. If it was just me and her, I would have got her but because we're amongst 50 people I didn't need to embarrass her I didn't need that back to right when you're insecure you'll kill that person but I laughed and I bit my cheeks I was probably bleeding in my mouth when I left the way she tried to rewrite that it's why I always give Mrs. Kennedy Senora Kennedy a lot of flowers I've done that publicly for a long time it's the one teacher I needed to pass in that actually go to that report card this is really fun I've never told a story with a report card if you look at the top left I think that's ninth grade, right? Yeah. So these were my final grades for the year. Right. This is a recap report card. Do you see German? I see German, yes. What did I get? F. Okay, now go to 10th grade. This is the recap. Yep. What did I get in German? F. Okay, so I took German one twice and I got, ready for this, eight Fs. Four report cards in a year. Eight Fs. Eight Fs in two years. In New Jersey, in the state of New Jersey, you have to pass a language for two years to graduate high school. You must pass a language for two years. I now go into 10th, 11th grade, as you see. Yeah, I see Spanish one. I took Spanish one, because now I have to reset. What did I get? D. And then 12th grade, Spanish two. Spanish two D. So you barely passed. No, no, I didn't pass. Oh, this is not a pass. That is a pass. Okay. You ready for this? Yeah. My D's in Spanish are worse than my F's in German, but Mrs. Kennedy saw who I was as a human, and she passed me. That means the world to a kid, man. I'm fucking 50 years old. This happened literally fucking 32 years ago and I'm telling you this story after the way my life worked out. Can you imagine how much it means to a kid? Yeah. She called my mother. She called my mother senior year and said, Mrs. Vaynerchuk, the only teacher to call my mom in four years of high school because I was no academic as you can see. Mrs. Vaynerchuk, I just want you to know your son will pass, but he does not know more than one word in Spanish. And that is true today. Hola. That's what I got. Just hola. No que pasa. That's it. Damn, that's crazy. Yeah. You know, one of the bigger sort of blockers for a lot of Indians is this exact idea of what the world will think. There is a famous phrase associated with it. I'm very aware. I've been touching on it the whole time. Right. And a lot of advice I'm able to offer people you listen to me is that history gets rewritten. Every time. If you keep trying, history gets rewritten. And the second thing is that how you go to sleep at night is a more real feeling than almost anything else you feel. And I have a feeling because I didn't have it at 30 either. I have a feeling because we see stuff so similar that you will realize how right I am about regret. Forget about even sleeping and anxiety during the day. Forget about outside judgment and validation. Brother, I'm telling you, as you start to get older, the only thing that people should fear besides health is regret it's that powerful it's that powerful because it hasn't hit me yet because it shouldn't even I at 50 I'm like and you know me a little bit I think I have 50 more years to cook right but I'm not an idiot at 30 you're not thinking about mortality no not at all I promise you at 80 when you're like how much time do I really have right you're gonna be really happy you lived your life on your terms because I've spent enough time with people in their 80s that didn't and it is a devastating energy. Devastating. That's a very interesting insight. You know, I honestly feel like what old people have to say is sometimes so real because their reflection is so honest. There is no way to run. I would say the biggest issue in society, one of the biggest issues is we've lessened the value of old wisdom. we put young culture at the pedestal and I think it's hurt us yeah I think in to Indian culture and to Asian culture and to Eastern European culture they have it better than America in America we completely disrespect our elders I think in certain parts of other parts of the world there's still something but I think you guys all know this the way we put grandpa in India on a pedestal today is already different than 30 years ago because we've been westernized yeah and I think wisdom is not the same as knowledge and wisdom wisdom actually is knowledge over time. Correct, it's earned. It's earned. And that you will not get it on a random article. When I was 25, I was a whiz kid entrepreneur, I was. I was great. And I thought I knew everything. And my 50 year old self laughs at 25 year old Gary. I would squash that kid in a business game of chess. Dude, I feel like every two or three years, I'll have a feeling where I'll be like, now I think I have figured it out, now I think I get it. And I have that feeling every two or three years and I find and look at myself two, three years and I'm like that idiot. I know, I know. Wait till it becomes decades, not years. Hey everybody, if you enjoyed this podcast, please go back and look at the prior episodes. They're loaded. I appreciate your attention and thanks for being part of this journey. See you later.