How similar is North Carolina’s hire of Michael Malone to UNC’s hire of Bill Belichick?

On today's A&E NARM3 presented by BetMGM, North Carolina has hired Michael Malone as his new basketball coach. We've had 24 hours to digest the news. The question now is how similar is this to the Bill Belichick hire? Because it is a pro coach coming to college. It is a championship pro coach coming to college. But is that where the similarities end? We'll break it down. Plus, on Threes Prep, Murphy wrote a column on Monday saying the SEC's dynasty had collapsed. And then on Monday night, the Big Ten wins its first men's basketball title in 26 years. Are we just living in the Big Ten's world right now? Plus, we break down some spring football clips. We heavily overanalyze some very brief spring football clips because that is what we do on this show. We got ones from Ohio State. We got one from Notre Dame, couple receivers making big plays that we're going to give them legend status in the spring. They'll have to back it up in the fall. We'll talk about it all today on A&E NARM3 presented by BetMGM. This show is sponsored by BetMGM. And we've got our own tradition, unlike any other, because college basketball is done, which means it is time to head to Augusta. Open your BetMGM app and look for your master's odds boost token. That'll work for you. Tuesday, April 7th, Wednesday, April 8th, BetMGM players will receive a master's odds boost token. Use it. Add any master's wagers to your bet slip and activate the token. If you win your bet, it was made with the odds boost token, you will receive extra winnings in unrestricted bonus dollars. Plus, you've got a master's second chance. That's available Tuesday and Wednesday, April 7th and April 8th. Players eligible to receive their stake back and cash as a second chance refund on any pre-tournament straight golf master's winner wagers on Monday through Wednesday, where the player they wager on does not win the tournament, but does finish in second place. 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And as the show was dropping yesterday, the news was dropping yesterday that North Carolina was hiring former Nuggets coach Michael Malone as its head basketball coach. And Ari, when we had Tyler Hansenbergen on a few days ago, Michael Malone was one of the people he mentioned that he would like to see in that job. And obviously Malone had been around the campus because his daughter plays volleyball there. He won an NBA championship just a couple of years ago. And then on the eve of the playoffs last year got fired along with the GM because the Nuggets did not like the relationship between those two and felt like it was infecting the rest of the organization. So they got rid of them both. But now Michael Malone comes back to coaching but in college and it's been a long, long time since he's been on a college staff. But again, he just won an NBA title a couple of years ago. Yeah, we were in the middle of a national championship mania down there in Indianapolis. But my overwhelming sentiment based on what I see in my feeds is that North Carolina is not pleased with this. Is that right? The fans were initially very displeased. Let's put it this way. There was a thread within a few minutes of the hire on Inside Carolina that said, remember, Shiano Sunday at Tennessee, let's have Malone Monday. Now they have, they have changed their tune a bit as more people have come out in support of this hire. You've had a lot of former North Carolina players like I mentioned when we had Tyler Hansen were on the other day, he was very supportive of the idea of Michael Malone becoming the head coach. And so you've seen other, Ty Lawson spoke up Danny Green very quickly said, Hey, this guy's awesome. I, you know, I worked with him in the NBA. He's really good. So I think the, the, the tide is turning a bit. And we've seen this with, with other coaching hires where the initial reaction was negative, but the more people get to know that they, they start to like them. You know, in football last year, we saw it with John Somerall at Florida where the initial reaction among fans was, Oh, another group of five coach from Louisiana. And then the guy has his press conference and has a chance to, to get out there and spread his message. And suddenly they like him. So we'll see Greg Barnes from inside Carolina reporting that he believes a press conference with Malone happening later today. Obviously, it's a little bit different than, than what happens in football now, because in this particular case, the transfer portal opened today. So there may be more pressing business for Michael Malone than answering questions from the media. So we'll see when, when he gets introduced, but I, I want to hear him talk. I want to hear his vision. I want to hear what his staff plan is. We'll, we'll learn as the days go on who he's going to hire on his staff. Greg Barnes, again, from inside Carolina reporting that he's targeting Chuck Martin, who is a former, well, he, a current Arkansas assistant right now works, works with John Calipari as the recruiting coordinator. So once we see that, we'll have a better idea. So the question I posed to you in the car at 408 Eastern time this morning on the way to the airport was, would this hire have been received differently if Bill Belichick didn't exist? Yes, I agree completely. Because what happened with the Belichick hire probably has soured a lot of North Carolina fans on the idea of someone going from the pros to college, but these are different situations. And I was, I was going back through the timeline with Belichick because we were very excited initially about the Belichick hire. We're like, holy crap, Bill Belichick is coming to college football. That's so cool. It probably took about a month before we started to think this, this might not be a whole great situation. And it didn't have anything to do with his girlfriend. It was talking to people who cover the NFL and then talking to people we know in college football who had been kind of canvassed by the Belichick people during the 2024 season as they researched the idea of him moving into college football. And it became abundantly clear that he and his people thought they were much, much smarter than the people in college football. And you knew if that was their attitude, it was going to be bad. And it turned out it was bad. Now it may get better, but it was like, there's a reason when, when Ben MGM threw that seven and a half win total out for North Carolina last year, I was like, under, under, under, under. Yeah, this is a, who do you have on your roster sport? And there might be a variance of two, two wins or two losses in there somewhere, depending on how well the team comes together and how well the coaches do in preparing the team to play. But you know, North Carolina didn't have any players last year. And that was, you know, something that showed up on film very early on, I would argue that their defense got a little bit better, if not better as the season went on, but still wasn't, you know, kind of what North Carolina fans were hoping for. They will always have the opening drive against DCU though, that was electric. The thing that, that I am curious about too, because, you know, we did talk about Jordan Hudson, but our criticisms of Bill Belichick, the coach had nothing to do with her and still don't. Yeah, is the thing that I worried about with him was that he was in a position, was not in a position, I should say, to get an NFL job, which is what my understanding is, is he preferred that. And then he took this job to coach football, souring relationships, burnt bridges, all these different things about whether he was a well liked human. And I find that to be a little bit nerve wracking. And my rudimentary, elementary understanding of Malone is that he might have some relationship issues in the NBA too, which would be my only red flag. Right. And again, he did just win a title. So this is not like Belichick had bad years before he stopped coaching in the NFL. The nuggets were still very much in the mix when Malone got fired, like they went into the playoff. I believe they want a series in the playoffs. They went out to the Thunder last year. So they went out to the eventual champs. So it's not like they are, you know, they had just completely fallen apart. They also have one of the three best basketball players on the face of the earth on the roster. They may have, I mean, he may be the best player. It's, it's, it's whether you think it's basically Nikola Yovitch or Victor Wimmynama. Who do you think is the best? And again, we did that with Bill Belichick too, because he had a very good player on his team from a lot of his dynasty. So all of his dynasty. And, you know, you don't want to undermine accomplishments of coaches because of the good players. The question, Andy, will be answered when you get an idea of what his plan is. If his plan is, I was in the NBA, I know how to do this better than everybody else, then you might start getting worried. But if you, you know, hear him speak about the importance of the portal and relying on people who, who, who know these players and building it the right way and evaluating players much like Thusty Magistin at Michigan, I think you can get on board with it because here's the other difference. And you just pointed this out, Andy. He won it very recently. Bill Belichick was already very much into the heat of his decline as a coach and as a personality in the NFL when they hired him. And it felt like completely out of left field and didn't really make sense as a fit. Yeah. Yeah. And the Malone thing, we'll see. We'll see what, what this turns out to be because I know some of the initial rhetoric was, Oh, what if he has a couple of good years, then immediately goes back to the NBA? You know what? If that happens, that's great. You had two good years because it meant that he performed well enough that somebody in the NBA wanted to hire him back. That's, and I realize nobody in North Carolina wants to hear that because they want, they want their job to be the be all in the end all any coaching hire that gives you good seasons that you're happy with is a good hire. Yeah. Now, one other philosophical question I have for you in the NFL and coming down from the NFL to college and up from college to the NFL is a very difficult thing that very few people have been able to do successfully. Right? Do you think that that wall or that gap in terms of coaching style, how you call an offense, your coordinator hires, how you draft all those different things that have to take place in the NFL when you leave college that don't exist in college is more drastic than the difference between coaching five starters in basketball at different levels? Cause I think that it's probably not as drastic in basketball. If I had to guess, I don't think it is. I just, I do wonder, cause I think the, difference as big of a jump in quality as college football to the NFL is, it's a bigger one in from college basketball to the NBA. There's so few roster spots in the NBA. The NBA players are the absolute best, maybe the best team sport athletes on the planet, but there, there are more aliens in the NBA per capita than the NFL and the idea of managing a 60 plus person roster and an 18 or 12, whatever the number is 15 person roster, 15. Yeah. So much more manageable from a coaching perspective plus the games, although the NBA is far more advanced from a talent and skill perspective. I don't know if the games are as ultimately as different as maybe they are in college. So I feel like from that standpoint, if they would have hired Billy Donovan, everybody would have been all excited about it. So Billy Donovan's won two national titles in college. He understands that, but in Michael Malone's defense, not that he really needs it at this point, but the game Billy Donovan left is completely different than, than what he would have been coming back to had he gotten the job. 100%. 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Duke had the number one player in the NBA draft last year in Cooper flag. They're going to have another top five pick in Cam Booser this year. They are getting those players. Michael Malone has to prove that he can get those players. Now the GM for North Carolina basketball is working today. The fact that Michael Malone, the first reported name we see is someone who is integral to John Calipari's recruiting operation. It's a good sign. Tells us that he's going to put his own stamp on this. Now, there are the thing that really stood out to me, Andy, about this. And maybe it wasn't revelatory, but it was very interesting was that the fan base had that thread of having the revolt, you know, calling out the Tennessee, Shiano behavior. And I think the reason that we can both agree for that initial reaction was Bella check, which to me is an admission that the football fans are out on the current administration in their football building. Like so, like, is that the I'd say I'd say from spending a lot of time on the inside Carolina message boards in the last few months because of the Hubert Davis situation and all and the coaching search. I'd say it is the majority of the UNC football fans are out on Bella check. There's still a few that'll say he's only been there a year, given some time. That's an incredibly naive way to look at it. It's not, it's not a matter of a learning curve. It's they don't get good players. And so if you, because remember you hired Bill Belichick to be better than Mac Brown and Mac Brown, a lot of good players during his time. Yeah. Yeah. They don't like they're done. This roster is done. We already know what they're going to have. They're not scaring the rest of the ACC right now. Now I do think they could be, they could be better because they did shift from Freddie kitchen's calling plays to Bobby Petrino calling plays. And you say whatever you want about Bobby Petrino of all the insults lobbed his way and the criticism lobbed his way. Some of them very valid. No one's ever said he's a bad play collar. He's always been a great play collar, but North Carolina schedule is harder than it was last year. And they are going to have to be considerably better than last year to have the same results as last year and a lot, lot better to be better than last year. So that's, but they also didn't sign up for six and six in the ACC. That is not what they signed up for. And six and six in the ACC in a schedule that includes Clemson Notre Dame, obviously you're playing Duke. They got Miami. They got Louisville. They have to go to Ireland and play TCU and see state brings CJ Bailey back. Like it is, this is not an easy situation for them. Wasn't their schedule from last year? No, last year's schedule was incredibly soft and they still were bad. Yeah. So I don't know how long I think that this is going, but it felt like more of a novelty higher and a shocking higher. And you said earlier in the show that we were excited about it. I think we were in shock by it and confused by it. And then as we started to really process what it was going to actually look like, we soured on it very quickly. Well, obviously we were much more connected in the world of football. And so we got word pretty quickly. And for me, it was all about their attitude that they came in with that if you come in thinking you are smarter than everybody else in this multi-billion dollar business, you are going to fail. You have to have some respect for the game you're coming into. And so I suspect Michael Malone will come in respectful of the game that he's entering. Yeah. If for no other reason than somebody at North Carolina pulls him aside and says, Hey, this is what Belichick did. Whether you're going to do that or not, you know, is your business, but don't say it. Don't don't act like it. At least pretend or respect it. Nobody knows what the hell they're talking about. This could be great or this could fail. No one knows. But hiring somebody who just won an NBA championship is a pretty, I think, important resume benchmark. Whether he approaches things the right way will be completely up to him. But I would not perceive this as a gimmick hire. I think the Bill Belichick thing was a gimmick hire. Right. Because they had options in college. They could have gone and I hear people saying, Oh, they did this because they didn't have to pay a buyout to get Malone. I don't think that's it. I think if they needed to pay a buyout to get Mark Byington from Vanderbilt or Grant McCaslin from Texas Tech or or some other sitting college coach, they would have done it. My guess is that through this process, Michael Malone said something to them that impressed them enough to think he's the guy. Andy, what do we also know about fans? They look at what literally just happened and then convince themselves that's the only way to do it. And they just watch their former point guard go play for a coach that took FAU to the Final Four and put together a really good team. And they think that's the only way it can be done. And I got news for you. Imagine this. North Carolina makes a run to the Final Four, the headlines of experienced coach with NBA finals is a perfect hire. Like you don't know it could crash. Well, and Dusty May himself talked the other day about putting his team together and the model he used was the Oklahoma City Thunder. He didn't model it on a college team. He modeled it on the Thunder. He pointed it as like the Thunder didn't draft Shay Gilgis Alexander. They got him in a trade. I know neither you nor your colleagues designed the system that college sports is operating under right now. But there are a lot of people who look at a team like the one you have and say, this is not what college sports should be. You should not be able to go compile a team like this the way you did. The question I have is as a coach, how would you describe the value of taking guys who maybe were not the best versions of themselves previously and making them the best versions of themselves with your program? Look, I know this is going to set off a Twitter firestorm, but I think we all are better in certain situations than others. There's an environment that's right for me. There's an environment that's right for you. And sometimes you don't choose that the right environment from the beginning or sometimes as people we change and we need something different for a number of reasons. So the way we choose to look at it, we're going to bring in really, really good guys that are high achievers that want to do it the way we want to do it. And when the Oklahoma City Thunder won the championship last year, and I'm friends with Kosha Dagnall and a lot of people in that organization, I wasn't judging them because Shale Alexander was drafted by the Clippers or because they signed Isaiah Hartenstein as a free agent. I thought, wow, those guys play beautiful basketball. That is a great team. That's a real model for young players to watch. A group that obviously cared about each other, that played the game the right way, that represented their organization, their city, their families, their last name. And so whatever the rules are, we're going to go at it. But our job is to put a competitive roster team on the floor that represents Michigan the way we think they deserve to be represented. So perhaps someone with NBA experience, and we've talked about this as people come in from the NFL to college football, perhaps someone with that experience will have some insight and some evaluation skill and some roster building skill that maybe an old blind traditional college basketball coach might not have. And hiring a North Carolina basketball coach is a completely different job. Requirements, expectations, demands than hiring a North Carolina football coach. Right. This is like hiring a Georgia football coach or an Ohio State football coach. And I think we should not get confused by that. They brought in a gimmicky hire in the football thing to try to shake things up because they've been underachieving. Maybe they go get the mad hatter out of the NFL and they get a lot of really good players to play for them because they are excited about the allure playing for Belichick and they overperform. But when you actually look at North Carolina football, if they go four and eight this year and he moves on, like how much was actually really lost. It wasn't like this is a traditional football power that expects to win 12. The sleeping giant is still asleep. Yes. They can wake them up with their next hire, but like with basketball. And I think that this is the number one thing that when I've seen on message board and some of the things that you've sent, Andy, is is that North Carolina fans are afraid of slipping out of elite, the elite neighborhood and being just another solid program. They want to continue to be viewed as the bluest of blue bloods, pun intended, baby blue bloods. And I think that they're afraid that they're slipping out of that club. So this is a pretty instrumental hire to make sure that North, I mean, the expectation is that you don't like it's final four next year. Like this isn't like Bill Belichick make the play off in year one. It's a completely different proposition. Yeah. No, you want them to go deep in the NCAA tournament. That is the expectation. It's a different, different set of guidelines for this job that it is for North Carolina football. So yeah, if, if you're worried because they, they took a pro guy and the football team just took a pro guy, let's, let's give the man some time. Let's, let's give the man a chance to, to put his staff together, to put a roster together because we, we told you when Bill Belichick's roster was set. Now we had to wait through the spring portal last year because that was, it was different, different setup. We told you when Bill Belichick's roster was set, this is not a roster that's going to be competitive. We'll probably know, and the people who really still like our, you know, Joe Tipton and the guys who, who study basketball and know all of the players and prospects, they will be able to tell you probably fairly quickly whether this can be a competitive roster or not. And so we'll find out over the next few weeks whether Michael Malone has a chance in your one. Very easy to make apples to apples comparisons and it's not an apples to apple situation, both with the person and the program. Exactly. Exactly. So good luck to Michael Malone. You, you got to, I don't, you don't have to win the press conference. That's supposed to happen later today. You don't have to win it. Win the transfer portal. Yeah. Yeah. When the transfer portal, that's all you got to do. We mentioned Dusty May actually before, before we, we get to that, I want to thank everybody at Culver's for bringing us to Indianapolis for the final four. We had so much fun. Oh man. I'm still the concrete mixers that I had. I might have had. You had three, two, three. Yeah, it was three. I had three concrete mixers before, before the semifinal games. I felt, don't care, was amazing. Had a butter burger too. Amazing. So thanks for coming by the people who braved the cold and wind and rain to come see us. And there were several of you. Thank you so much. We are honored that you would even do that. Thank you to John Fanna, to Jeff Goodman, to Tyler Hansboro, to the Bread Basket Brothers. That show was a whole lot of fun. And again, thank you for the concrete mixers. And special thank you to Kevin, who helped our producer River get the show uploaded on Saturday. We were struggling. We had satellite internet that was not working because of the weather. And then we needed some other solution. He was having trouble finding anywhere you could upload at a decent speed. And Kevin came through with some Hoosier hospitality, opened his garage door, handed River and Ethernet cord, and the show is up. Still not exactly sure how that happened. I need River to explain that to me off the air. But that's remarkable. Also, what about Devante, the camera guy that was filming this? Oh, really? Oh, awesome. Helping hold up the tent while it was blowing over from the wind. It wasn't the easiest conditions to pull off a show in. But I thought that we got it off without a hitch. And it was because it was a whole, a whole deep drive. What did that person do for a living that you even got in contact with him? I don't understand. Well, so I'm at this McDonald's trying to upload it. And it says 49 minutes or an hour. It should have been at a Culver's. You'd have been able to upload it there. Probably. But I'm on Google Maps looking at internet near me. And then it comes up with this technology solutions place. And I call the number. It's got one review. I call him and explain what we just talked about. Satellites down. We need to get the show up quick. It's final four preview show. Can you help me? And he's like, I don't know why I keep showing up at this office is here, but I'm 12 minutes away. And I had and he was like using this terminology of like he had good internet speed. And I trusted it. And I said, Kevin, you know what? I'm desperate enough. Watch your address. And I'll be there in 12 minutes. Next thing you know, the show's up is Google Maps. It's all of us. It was a phone call from Google Maps. Do you have that guy's address still? Yeah, we should send him something. Yeah, yes, we definitely should. It was definitely should. It was the craziest thing I've ever been a part of. I texted Andy said working on a solution now. And then 10 minutes later, yeah, 10 minutes later, the show was up. I was like, what did you do? Yeah, that's what producers do in the field. They problem solve. We're probably right. That's right. River gets stuff done. If you ever want to know what River does, River's job is get stuff done. So go to strangers houses and upload a show in Indianapolis. Who's your hospitality? Nothing better. Nothing. That's right. Kevin, thank you so much for your Hoosier hospitality. I'm assuming Kevin's an Indiana fan, a Hoosier's fan. Oh, yeah. He talked about signetty. We talked about it. Okay, so he's going to enjoy this next part. He's in a good mood. Yeah. Yeah. So it's spring and this is the time of year when you start rethinking what's in your closet. I'm trying to keep fewer things, but better things pieces that are well made, easy to wear all the time. I can just grab it and I know I'm going to look great. That's why I keep coming back to Quince. The fabrics feel elevated. The fits are thoughtful and the pricing actually makes sense. In other words, people are going to look at you and think you paid a whole lot more than you did. Quince makes high quality everyday essentials using premium materials like 100% European linen and they're insanely soft, flown in active wear fabric. Their men's linen pants and shirts are lightweight, breathable and comfortable. Basically the perfect layer for spring. Personally, I've got the 100% organic cotton mesh stitch sweater polo. That one, I was wearing on the show the other day, feels great, fits great, breathable, looks amazing. It looks like I paid three times as much as I did for it. And that's what you're going to get with Quince. You're going to get fits and fabrics that look like you paid a fortune, but you didn't break the bank. You just look great. So refresh your wardrobe with Quince. Go to quince.com. That's Q-U-I-N-C-E.com slash A-A-ON-3. So A-A-O-N number three for free shipping and 365 day returns. Now they're available in Canada too. So go to quince.com. That's Q-U-I-N-C-E.com slash A-A-ON-3 for free shipping and 365 day returns. That's quince.com slash A-A-ON-3. Bretman Murphy, our colleague at ON3, wrote this column on Monday. This was actually before Michigan won the title. His inspiration was UCLA beating two SEC teams in the women's final four. And it was something he'd been cooking up for a little while. But the headline is the SEC dynasty collapsed. What comes next? So the Big Ten school fans were definitely enjoying the shot in Freud there. And here's the thing. I don't feel terrible for the SEC people in this case because they held it over. They lorded it over the Big Ten people for a long, long time with the football, with the men's basketball. Because remember, that Michigan national title was the first Big Ten men's basketball national title since Michigan state beat Billy Donovan's Florida team in 2000, 26 years ago. So here's where I get really... So Paul Feinbaum asked me to come on the show this afternoon to talk about the Big Ten's dominance. Are you going to wear the shirt? If I can find it. We'll see. It might even be a phone call thing because I don't know if I have it in me to get back on my computer after the last one. You've got to wear the shirt. But so the results are the results, right? But I was thinking about this. Like you can't argue with the fact that the last three football champions are Big Ten. You can't argue with the fact that this year's champions in the women's basketball and men's basketball are also from the Big Ten. But our number one discussion point for why the SEC might be losing traction or its stranglehold on the top is purely a financial discussion, right? I don't think it's a financial discussion. I think SEC programs... Listen, how many SEC programs in football spent more than Indiana did on the roster last year? I would suspect four, five, six. That's what I'm getting to. But I think the reason why it's a financial discussion isn't because of what the SEC is not doing. It's because what other teams are doing for the first time. But that is the counterpoint, what you just said. Michigan just won the basketball championship. But there were multiple SEC teams who spent more on their roster this year, including Kentucky. And Big Ten teams that spent more on their roster this year. Yeah. I don't think that Indiana, although that became a fun trend to discuss, I don't think they were funded by Mark Cuban and were like the Midwestern version of Texas Tech. That's not what happened. That's revisionist history. So the question that I have about the stranglehold is, is it a coincidence or a change of the guard in a temporary fashion? Because that's what happens in sports. One team rules it or one conference rules it for a period of time, then it cycles into the new era and then it'll be back. Is this the beginning of a prolonged trend? Or is this overreacting to a coincidental or just natural change of the guard that happens when time, it's hard to win a championship in all the major sports every single year until the end of time. Eventually, it's not going to happen. And so what do you think if you want to talk about the Big Ten stealing the SEC's perch? What is the reason for that in your mind? And is it temporary and really temporary? Like could we see it change as soon as next year? Because I think we could. Well, we could definitely see an SEC team win next year. But the thing is, In both sports, all three sports, maybe. When all of, when the SEC's reign of dominance was going on too, Ohio State could have won a national title at any point. And in fact, Florida State broke it. Remember the SEC's streak for football started in 06 with Florida beating Ohio State. And then you had LSU, Florida again, Alabama, Auburn, Alabama, Alabama. But during that, Florida State breaks it and then Ohio State wins. During that streak that you just referenced, how many teams in the Big Ten outside of Ohio State were actually equipped to win a national title? I think the answer to that question is zero. None. But I think, I think Urban Meyer going to the Big Ten is what started the change there. That forced Michigan to get better, that forced Penn State to get better. And now that they've added Oregon and USC, it's forced them to work even harder. Plus, you have this new deal where you can spend money on your roster. Well, who has more money than anybody? The Big Ten, their TV deal spits out more money than the SEC's. Well, the interesting thing about this new trend is that, yes, Ohio State did win one of the football championships. But the Michigan basketball team that just won it, I think only won 25% of their games two years ago before Dusty May got there. And two of the champions in football, in during that three-year streak was Indiana, which is insane. And then, of course, Michigan, and that got kicked off. And that Michigan team was unique in a lot of very different ways from a roster building perspective, where they had a really good blend of top-end talent, but they did a really good job of also evaluating in the portal, plugging holes, creating a great offensive line and just winning with bullyball. So, like, you have more options in the north to actually win, which then, of course, creates the higher probability of a team breaking through. And if you look at this list of Big Ten teams, now that it's a, you know, we need a cheat sheet to remember who's in what conference, Indiana could win the championship next year, Michigan could probably win the championship next year, Oregon could, Ohio State could. I think you could put Penn State already in that category. I don't know. Maybe we'll, maybe we'll see about USC, USC19 maybe last year. They feel good about what they have. Washington's not even taking into account a team like Washington that could go be awesome next year because they're returning a ton of talent from a nine-win team. So, like, if you have seven teams that are in that mix in the Big Ten when there was only used to be one, then the probability of that happening is much higher. So, because I don't think that anybody in the SEC, who in the SEC is equipped to win a championship now that wasn't equipped to win it in 2010. Good question. Les has changed in the SEC. They've added Oklahoma and Texas, so them. So those two, yes. And then they've been in Vanderbilt with what they did last year. Now, I don't know. I'd say Texas A&M. A&M. But A&M ceiling was only, Florida and Auburn did win national championships during that period. Perhaps they're back to it. Tennessee took advantage because that's the thing. I think there were more SEC programs that were not where Alabama and Georgia was that wanted to get there that took advantage of and were ready to take advantage of when the NIRL rules changed and they could outbid and they could get guys that would have been sitting on Alabama and Georgia's bench. I think that's what Tennessee did. That's what Ole Miss did. And it helped get them better fast. Here's the biggest difference. Because River points out Ole Miss, Tennessee, A&M, all these teams, Florida, when they were down during those times. I mean, there was only two teams in the conference that were like left for dead. And that was Mississippi State and Vanderbilt, maybe to a certain extent Arkansas and South Carolina, but two in the last first time. Right. And Vandy won 10 games last year in South Carolina won nine games. But at any of the, and we have to take Oklahoma and Texas out because they weren't in the conference yet. But at any of the points between 2006 and 2020, if Texas A&M would have been awesome enough to win the championship one year, or if Auburn would have done it again, or if Florida would have gotten back there, any of these teams that were dormant, or they weren't in a position, I think Tennessee even, LSU has always been very good. Any team could have popped up at any given moment and it wouldn't have been nearly as bizarre of what Indiana just did. Correct. And see this is somewhat expected. This is what interests me about the Big 10. We just saw Indiana do it. Are we going to see Illinois do it? Are we going to see Minnesota do it? Are we going to see Wisconsin do it? Are we going to see Iowa do it? Like that's what fascinates me because it also goes for Vanderbilt. And that also correct for the SEC teams that were also better. Like that goes for Tennessee. That goes for Ole Miss. Right. Hell, that might even go for Kentucky. But I think those SEC schools, not Vanderbilt, Kentucky, but say Florida, Auburn, Tennessee, Texas A&M, they always had the want to. And they would have always been accepted. They wouldn't have had to go through the same, you know, in what's the movie with Andy Dufresne? That would be the Shawshank Redemption. Shawshank Redemption. Indiana had to climb through a year and a half of human excrement and come out the side of a stream before it was accepted by everyone. Yes. If Florida would have just popped up and been good in 2012, they wouldn't have had a failure. Nobody would have been shocked. But see, that's, but that's the thing. We question whether Indiana actually cared about football. Now we know they do. Does Minnesota care? Does Illinois care that much? Does Iowa care that much? I think they probably do. And now they have the resources to do something about it. And now you also don't have to feel crazy for caring a lot. And Nebraska cares more than anybody. And they got money. I think that like in the past, there were probably elements of these programs, certainly from the coaching staff down, but in the administrative level that did want to be graded football, but was so concerned about the misallocation of funds or wasting money at a pipe dream that could never happen. And now that they've seen Indiana do it, I think that if you want to go all in on football in Minneapolis, if you want to do it in West Lafayette, Indiana, if you want to do it in Champaign, Illinois, it doesn't feel like a pipe dream anymore. It feels like a achievable goal in a way that it has never felt in the history of college football. And that doesn't mean that Cinderella stories have never happened. But you know, like the only other team in the Big 10 during the period of time in which the SEC was dominating that was actually any any good on a national level where a few flare ups from Michigan State, and you saw what happened to state the second they got on the same field as Alabama, they got they got killed. So like it's just it's not the same sport anymore. And I think a lot of SEC fans get really upset when you start saying it's not what the SEC is not doing. It's what the Big 10 is doing now, because they think it's an implication that the SEC was cheating. That's not the implication at all. The implication is that now the Big 10 has multiple programs that are financially invested and excited about football in a way that they've never been before, because there's an avenue to compete because of the legality of being able to compensate players that was not available to them in 2007. Right. And it's just changed everything. So the Big 10 might not be the the conference that's ripped away everything from the SEC and that the SEC will never do it again. There's just a higher variance of the results that we can get in the season than ever before. And that's obviously going to lead to things like this. Now, there isn't a single thing that makes me feel like the SEC will not be competitive in any of those three sports next year. In fact, if the SEC swept all three of them next year, would that even be surprising? Probably not. So the SEC will win them, but the Big 10 will now win maybe just as much. And it's not about the Big 10 being supreme. I think it's about the Big 10 being equal for the first time in a really long time and people are trying to catch up to that. Well, I cannot wait to see this go forward because I've said throughout all of the SEC's run, these things are cyclical. The longer we got away from it, the more people forgot that in 2006, the year that the SEC thing started, the last, well, it wasn't the last week, there's the next last week of the regular season, Ohio State and Michigan play in that game. And the question we all had afterward was, well, should they just play again in the national championship game? Because these are clearly the two best teams in America. And everyone was shocked when Florida crushed Ohio State and it's like, oh, wait, no, no, no, those weren't the two best teams in America. We got that wrong. And now we've had all these years of the SEC winning national titles and we saw it. I think we've seen it in the playoff the last couple of years, the SEC getting a benefit of the doubt that it maybe didn't deserve. And I think that's going to change as well. And the thing that masks the whole thing too is that how many years are there between 2006 and 2022? Is that 16 seasons? It's 16 years. Yeah. Of those 16 champions, how many of them worth one of three SEC programs? Because like, it's not like SEC had an Auburn year and they had some Florida years in the early 2000s and in 2006. Yeah. Unless I'm forgetting about another SEC champion, it's only Georgia LSU and Bama, right? So like Bama has been carrying the conference in a championship level for probably a decade of that whole run. And if you would remove them from the equation, how many champions actually would have been from the SEC? That doesn't matter. They're in the conference. It still counts. But it's not like the SEC was passing around champions like Hot Potato. I mean, it was one dominant program that was later replaced by one dominant LSU team, which was later replaced by one dominant program in Georgia that didn't get the runway in the old system that Alabama had. Like that's what happened. Right. So like if Auburn popped up in 2017 in Florida, one at 18 and Ole Miss in 90, that's not what happened. There was a dominant program in that conference that held it up for a large portion of its history during that time. That said, Andy, I don't blame people for forgetting because 20 years in college football is an eternity. That's a lot of years for them to be the supreme leader. So I think it's an interesting talking point. And as much as I've been a person over the last few years on this podcast that has tried to prop up the Big Ten and try to convince people that beating Illinois on the road is the same thing as beating last year's Auburn team on the road and people struggle with that, I also am not going to be the torch carrier for the Big Ten owns everything. I think it's all cyclical. And I think it might be as temporary as one or two, three years. Like I don't know that there's a trend. Unless the Big Ten was spending more, and the teams that were spending the most were beating the teams that were spending the most in the SEC. And there was a straight line financial reason for it. I think that this is more just probably math and more variance in how things play out than it is a trend that the Big Ten's going to win the next 12 in a row. Cause I don't think that's right. But if they want to believe they're going to win the next 12 and be happy, could they have all these championships right now? Enjoy it. The SEC enjoyed it. You enjoy it while you've got it too. Like the trifecta shovel in it, revel in it. We were joking on the live stream after the basketball game last night, Andy, we should, they should, the Big Ten should release another trifecta shirt and it should just be the three champions of the major sports. Yeah. Yeah. Have an Indiana logo, a UCLA logo, a Michigan logo. Why not? So it's going to be fun to see. That's kind of like true. The SEC dynasty did collapse. Yeah. But that doesn't mean that it's over. Like those are two very different things. Well, dynasties never last forever. Right. And the Big Ten's got a dynasty going now, and football, I think three years is enough to start calling it a dynasty. It will crumble at some point. They always do. Such a college football podcast thing to call a conference dynasty. Dynasties meant for an individual team, but the rain, they reign supreme in the moment. People, people truly enjoy the conference. Like I have fought it Ari over the years, because I always thought the battle for conference supremacy was stupid, but people enjoy it. It's a little bit of a mess. Interesting to me though, Andy, because conference supremacy made more sense to me during the time in which it annoyed you, because conference supremacy, when it was tied directly to geography, was more about area pride and regional pride. Now, if UCLA wins the big, like the Big Ten's propping, they're, they're in California. Like there's no regional connection. Other than the contract application to play your teams. Like I understand the Southern pride because the Southern pride is banded together by Southern people who are proud of the football and the brand of athlete they produce in that area of the country. But it's like so interesting to me. It's like, well, SEC versus Big Ten, the Big Ten is a conglomerate of geographical nonsense all the way from East Coast to West Coast. There's a whole country, baby. It's like, yeah, okay. So maybe a team in California will win it. Maybe a team in Maryland will win it. But like at least in the South, they have some modicum of geography that makes sense. It is, it is three old line Big Ten programs that won last football national titles. Yeah. It is three Midwestern based ones. Okay. Well, if USC does that, then it's West Coast. It's like, where's the peck? You know why there's no AFC NFC pride? Because geographically, it doesn't, there's no tie to it. Well, they also had the Falcons in the NFC West forever. They're, they changed that when they made the NFC South. Houston Oilers have a more recent AFC North championship in the Cleveland Browns. I don't know if you know that. I just wanted to say that. That doesn't shock me. It doesn't shock me in the least. Oh, Ari, let's, let's talk about something else that's not shocking at all. You're not going to believe this. Ohio State's got another really good receiver. I know what you're thinking, but any, you already talked about Chris Henry Jr, the, the five star freshman who took the field this spring at Ohio State. We're not talking about him. We're talking about Brock Boyd. Yeah. He has been the talk of fall camp at Ohio State. I would say I've seen more headlines and more clips of Brock Boyd than I have of Chris Henry and maybe part of the reason why is because everybody knows what Chris Henry is, but Brock Boyd, is he a five star? Yeah. A five star with an NFL father who's got limbs enough to like scratch someone's ass in a different room. Like he's, he's going to be really good. But this is a slot receiver who is torturing people. From Dallas. So they had the student appreciation practice. And so a lot of videos came out from this. This is Jermaine Matthews, a senior corner back trash talking Brock Boyd Jermaine Matthews from Cincinnati. And then brings up where Brock Boyd is from, which is the Dallas area. He's South Lake, South Lake Carroll Dragon. And which is far from Dallas, but in the DFW area. That's an hour away from where I live suburban. Yeah. So this is, this is a mistake by Jermaine Matthews to do this because he gets cooked on this rep just cooked. This is a lot to say. And I get it. It's one rep, but we've, we've been hearing a lot of this coming from Ohio State practice about Brock Boyd. If he's good too, they've already got Jeremiah Smith. They've already have Brandon in us. Both of them have already shown in games how good they are. Chris Henry Jr. We know what his, his recruiting profile is. If they got another one that ain't fair, man. That ain't fair. River, I'm going to go for it. If it's inappropriate, clip it or delete it. If it's fine, it's fine. All right, here we go. Andy, what's his nickname? White lightning. We cannot go forward without at least acknowledging something here. He is a small, shifty, white slot receiver who came in right as Brian Heartline left. And everybody is amused by that because Brian Heartline famously was a very good white Ohio state receiver that was very good. Brian Heartline recruited himself, but then got a head coaching job and then got to go. So there are some of those undertones that are happening here because his nickname is white lightning. And it is hilarious that Brian Heartline is not on the staff to enjoy it. But he is unlike some of the receivers that Ohio State has had. Now, Ohio State, I think you can make the case this had one of the best slot receivers of the last 10 years on their team in Jackson Smith and Jigba. He played it majorly in the slot when he was in college and he torched people. But the type of slot receiver who runs good routes and catches everything that comes to him and is kind of just like a Swiss Army knife weapon of a receiver to go along with Jeremiah Smith and Chris Henry on the outside is the type of thing that can create a lot of mismatches for teams that Ohio State really hasn't posed since they had JSN on their roster what four or five years ago at this point. So it's going to be interesting if he's going to get a lot of attention and he's going to because he is white lightning. He's getting a lot of attention because he's probably going to catch some balls and he's going to be scary. And again, him being scary also makes Jeremiah Smith more dangerous. Because the less resources you can devote to Jeremiah Smith, the more likely it is he's going to be cooking you. Ohio State should have the best offense in college football this year. They've got a ton of returning for the production. And you know who else is going to be really good offensively. And I don't know who I think is going to be better is Miami. Watch out for Miami. They're going to have a lot of guys. But like, I don't know how a defensive coordinator can cover all this. Well, I think Oregon's going to have a lot too. Like you remember Evan Stewart's coming back producer River asked, can we officially declare Ohio State is wider? So you. Yeah. I don't think there's any question about that. There's some people in that and Ruzia might have something to say about that too late. When now they did have a couple first rounders in Brian Thomas and Malik neighbors a few years ago and another one. But Ohio State. Okay. Okay. Let's well, let's just take the guys in the NFL. So Jamar Chase, Justin Jefferson, Malik neighbors, Brian Thomas, Odell Beckham, we can use him too. That's really good. It's really good. Okay. Right now. Who would you rather have those guys? JSN, Emeka Buka, Marvin Harrison, Jr. Who am I missing? Missing somebody. Garrett Wolse and Jeremiah Smith. If you get Jeremiah in there, probably Ohio State, but it's kind of hard to turn your back on Justin. You get you. You get Jeremiah Smith too. Chris Olavi. Chris Olavi, we forgot. Yeah. Yeah, I'm taking. I'm taking Ohio State in that one. And I that is acknowledging how great those LSU guys are. But I'm taking Ohio State in that one. The reason why the argument is tricky is because Ohio State has had more volume. LSU had the two best receivers in the NFL for a three-year period. But see, if JSN doesn't do what he did last year, I'm probably still picking LSU. Now, part of this is because Marv had a bad look in your. Yeah. Justin Jefferson didn't have anybody to throw it to him last year. Like I'm actually a little excited about the Kyler Murray throwing to Justin Jefferson. Yeah. Is JJ McCarthy just done? No, they're not going to say that, but but yes, I have, I have a sneaking suspicion that Kyler Murray is going to be better. Yeah. Ohio State's receiver volume is unquestionably and they're going to have a bunch more too. Like they're just kind of, they're still on the way. So a lot of really good players in that position. They are wide receiver. You at the moment, but I just did not want to get if LSU throws another couple of first rounders out there, then they can take it back. Well, I'm really high on Malik neighbors. I know he got hurt last year, but he has a chance. Oh yeah. No, he's really good. I felt so like I know that like it's easy to and Brian Thomas has been good for the Jags. Brian Thomas had a weird year, but he's also very good. Yeah. So yeah, I think, I think it's close. I think Jeremiah breaks the tie. Yeah. I think that Jeremiah will be in the JSN, Jamar Chase, Justin Jefferson Fraternity, when he eventually gets there in another year. Yeah. All right. Let's stay at the receiver position. Let's go to another team that if we looked at bed MGM right now would have really good odds to potentially win the national championship. And that's Notre Dame. Larry Fitzgerald's son, Devin is playing for Notre Dame. And he's already making plays that look like that. Look at this catch. One handed. Give me that. Give me that. I'm really upset because we forgot a Ohio State receiver in the last segment. I don't know if you count it, but does Jamison Williams count? Hart, yes and no, because he blew up at Alabama, but that was only because he went there because he was buried behind the other guys. Just didn't want any Ohio State heads screaming at us. Okay. Back to the picture. Oh, yeah. Okay. Not as big as dad. Not freakishly huge like dad, but look at the body control here. Look at that. Look at that. Oh, what a catch for those who are listening in podcasts. Yeah. That is that is Devin Fitzgerald using his left arm to make sure the DB, he's not pushing off. He's just creating some space. And then his right arm just sticking it out and spearing a ball. The catch radius is still huge. Like again, not as big as dad, but the catch radius is really nice. It did look like dad. And they have the same color scheme on their uniforms. Right. Because they had the horrible. Yeah. It was in that terrible period where they were, where they had Navy jerseys and gold gold instead of literally those uniforms that his son is wearing right now. And I got to say, I'm tickled by the fact that Fitzgerald, it just fits in the Notre Dame. You know, the last name versus the Irish Catholic stuff, I think is perfect. So we talked about this in the car. I think you pushed back on a little bit. I'm very big on a Hall of Fame jeans and how that translates. And I know that that hasn't always played out perfectly. I know Michael Jordan's sons weren't the epitome of basketball greatness, but in football, I think coming from a football family, and, you know, I saw a lot of it when I was covering Ohio State, like the Bosa brothers came from a football family and they both were freaks that went on to the NFL and Antswan Winfield, Jr. is another one that comes to mind. I'm trying to think of other ones that, you know, father, son combinations where things worked out really well. There's a certain level of, you know, mental advantage that you have being the son of a great. And I think there's other, you know, physical traits that you might have carried on that are allowing you to do things like that. I think that if hitting on a prospect is a 50-50 proposition, I think if it's a legacy prospect, that might even bump it up to 60-40. Well, and it's not like Devon Fitzgerald was a no-name recruit. He was a four-star recruit, 252 in the rivals industry ranking, had offers from Clemson, from Michigan, from Notre Dame, obviously. He had really good schools after him. So this is not a case of it's just because of who his dad is. This guy can play too. And oh, by the way, he's joining a receiving core that already has Jordan Faison and Jaden Greathouse. I think this could be a fun, fun office to watch. We talked about CJ Carr. I still think CJ Carr is flying a little under the radar, even though he's, I think if I check bet him GM right now, the last time I checked, he was the favorite preseason Heisman odds. Obviously that's kind of a kiss of death, but CJ Carr had a great first year as a starter. And I expect him to stay good. Imagine if Devon Fitzgerald has a breakout freshman year, what that does for that team? That would be scary because now obviously they've got to replace Jeremiah Love and Jadarian Price, but I'm all right with, I'm all right with anybody running behind that line because you got Anthony Knapp, who's going to be a junior now. He's the one who got thrust into action as a freshman as the left tackle on the team that played for the national title. Charles Jagasa, who came in, everybody thinking he's going to be the next great offensive tackle at Notre Dame. He's a guard now. Gary Lambert, same thing. They thought he might be a tackle. He's a guard, super athletic guards. And then Will Black, who's a red shirt freshman who was a just off the charts, big time recruit, former hockey player, like another great, Will Black might be the next Joe Alt. So they are going to move people up front. They're going to get a playoff. Well, a certain difficult team on their schedule decided not to play them. They did replace USC with BYU, which is great. I'm glad they're playing BYU. But yeah, they've got Miami in November. They've got SMU in November. But yeah, should they go, should they be able to go 11-1 against this schedule? Yeah, they should. Yeah, they're probably going to go undefeated. I don't necessarily think that. I realize the win total for Notre Dame is 11-1.5. So you need them to go undefeated to go over. I think that's asking a lot. I think going undefeated is really hard. And they do have some tough games. Or you think that Marcus Freeman's going to get clipped again by a bad team. SMU's not a bad team. Miami's not. You think if they lose to Miami, that's a bad team? No, I think that they will beat the teams that they get up for in those games. Do you think if they lose to BYU, that's a bad team? No, but I don't think they're going to lose to the good teams. I don't think they're going to lose to any other teams. I think they have a higher likelihood of losing a weird upset game than they do losing one of the few games on their schedule that they actually have to get up for. No, I think Miami's good enough to just beat them. Miami might be the only exception to that. But I don't think they're going to lose to BYU or SMU. But they get Miami and SMU at home. They get BYU and Provo. So it will be interesting. Back to our Bill Belichick conversation. They go to Chapel Hill. So that'll be fun. Wisconsin is Notre Dame's opener. That's at Lambeau Field. I am very interested to see Wisconsin this year because they did keep their promise to Luke Fickle that they were going to give him more money for the roster. I don't know how much that will express itself in on-field improvement, but I did like the way that team rallied around Fickle at the end of last season. And I'm kind of curious to see if he did get more money for the roster, how good they look early on. But again, it's asking a lot to ask them to beat Notre Dame right off to ask them to beat Notre Dame right out of the shoot because Notre Dame brings back so much firepower. Yeah. Yeah. There's a lot to be excited about there, Andy. It's going to be fun. But yeah, Devon Fitzgerald, we will overanalyze that catch. I'm already bought in. I'm totally bought in after seeing the one. I've seen some other ones. There's been a lot of Devon Fitzgerald clips floating around this spring, but this is by far the most impressive one. Yeah. That's so cool. It just looks so much like his dad. Yeah. It looks so much like his dad. Oh, Ari, we're so back. It's football season again. Basketball is done. Football season, baby. I'm wired. I'm fired up. And we're already to Wednesday. We're going to have a Mega Board Wednesday tomorrow. And Mega Board Wednesday with a special guest, Kevin Clark from This Is Football. That's the show on ESPN, Omaha Productions. He works with Peyton Manning. And we're going to talk college football because Kevin's a huge college football guy. He's a cane now. So I'm sure he's going to want to talk a little Miami. But he had a really interesting discussion with Ryan Day last week on his show that we'll get into. We'll also talk to NFL Draft because I'm fascinated by what's going to happen there. And yeah, Mega Board Wednesday. How will the Michael Malone press conference go at UNC? We'll be able to see the reaction to that. And we'll be able to see everybody's reaction as the basketball portal fills up and then people start deciding where they're going to go to school. Can I ask you just another unrelated question? Yep. You didn't go to sleep last night, right? I closed, I laid down and closed my eyes. And there was about an hour and a half period between when I did that and when I got up. But I never actually felt like I was asleep. I remember hearing some podcast during some of that. Okay. When's the last time you went an entire 36 hours of sleeping and what are your plans for the rest of today? I have to pick up my daughter and take her to ballet. And I have to, I might work out. We'll see. I might sit in my truck and take a nap while she dances. Yeah. I've got to pick up my daughter at 4pm today. So I've got a few hours and I don't know what to do with this time. But I've never, I've never not, this is the first time in my entire life that I've never, that I went the whole night without sleeping. Take a nap. You act like that's such a weird thing. Close your eyes, cut the crap, sleep. Did you ever read Go The F to sleep to your daughter? Great book. I've yelled at her. Yeah, but that was a great show. That was a completely sleep deprived show, but I had a good time talking to you. That was a feels any time we get clips from spring practice that we can go completely overboard on adrenaline. We're happy. Yeah, we're very happy. Look at the catch. Look at that catch. We'll talk to you tomorrow.