S24 Ep25: Case & Community Updates

Indeed presents. Highers you can't afford to get wrong. Like a warehouse operations manager. Where are the fortlifts? I sold them. They were too expensive. I got a great deal on these scooters though. You expect us to move a two-ton pallet on a scooter? It'll be fun. Just think of the core strength you'll build. This is a job for sponsored jobs! This is what happens when you don't sponsor your job on Indeed. So the next time you need someone to get the job done right, get matched with quality candidates with an Indeed sponsored job. Visit Indeed.com slash NextHire and sponsor your job today. Quality proteins aren't just for special occasions. With Omaha Steaks you get unbeatable flavor and value delivered right to your door. They have an unmatched selection of perfectly portioned proteins, including USDA certified tender, steaks, burgers, chicken, pork, seafood and more. All flash frozen at their moment of peak quality. Then quickly delivered to your door in a dependable cooler. So a great dinner is just minutes away. From Taco Tuesday to a weekend feast. Omaha Steaks practically invented meat delivery. And they've been perfecting the art of premium proteins for over 100 years. With their 100% satisfaction guarantee, you can order with complete confidence. Taste the Omaha Steaks difference. A better, more convenient way to buy proteins. Start getting flavorful proteins delivered today. Visit OmahaSteaks.com and get $35 off with promo code audio at checkout. That's OmahaSteaks.com code A-U-D-I-O. Terms apply, cease sight for details. Music Hi friends. I'm excited to bring another case and community updates episode to your feed. I'm very excited to be joined by Amy B. Chesler, who is an associate producer on Something Was Wrong. The host of our other podcast, What Came Next, as well as Season 7 Survivor. And Lauren Barkman, who is our social media manager. You may recognize her from Season 20 as well. Thank you guys so much for joining us again and being willing to do this. Super excited to be here. Thank you as always for having me. And Lauren, I know you're a little sick. Yeah, I'm hanging in there. We appreciate you being here. Thanks for having me. Of course. I'd love to hear from you guys. How is your Thanksgiving? What's new with you guys? It's just a busy time of year in light of the impending holiday season. I think I'm filled with immense gratitude for the ability to be here, for the ability to do the work that we do, and for the ability to be part of this small but mighty team. We're always working. I mean, like what's going on is just like work and seasons, incredible interviews and survivors, and the event, and just an overwhelming sense of gratitude. I have a lot of exciting things behind the scenes going on that I'll be able to announce in the new year. And my 41st birthday is coming up, so I feel excited about that. I didn't really feel like celebrating my birthday last year when I turned 40 with the loss of my aunt. I think grief was my emotion that year. So this year is gratefulness, and you guys are a large part of that. I couldn't agree more. I feel like this team is just absolutely incredible in so many ways. Gratefulness is just the reoccurring word right now because it's all hit me at once. Just how amazing it all is. Your business is growing. You're getting new clients. You're really thriving, I feel like, this year. Yeah, it's definitely been a busy couple months, but I'm taking in all of the holiday festiveness, and we've just put up our tree today, so that was fun. Oh my goodness. What kind of tree? Is it a real tree, or do you guys do a fake tree, or like what's going on over there? It's a fake tree. Mine too. Same. I do want to say it's not that life is perfect at the moment. It's just that we've been stuck in a wild world for a while. Bro, the year's been rough. 2025 I don't think was what any of us were expecting. I mean, the gratefulness and the gratitude can exist no matter what, but I do want to acknowledge. 2025 was a wild, wild ride, and season 24 has been really compelling and interesting, but also heartbreaking and heavy. That is not to acknowledge all of those things as well. I just wanted to kind of throw that in there. You always do such a good job of finding that balance, but I agree. Both can coexist, and if we do not make space for those glimmers, the positive stuff too, we'll just burst into flames. It's overwhelming without that. I think it is an important part of advocacy work or any position that you have where you're holding a lot of heavy stuff. It's really important to make time for softness and stress-free environments as well, being in nature and stuff like that for myself. And I know you guys too, it's just very essential to try and find that balance as much as possible. It's not always easy, but I am thankful. I had a great Thanksgiving. We stayed home. We all hung out in our pajamas and ate tons of delicious food and played board games and snuggled with the dogs. And I keep watching The Morning Show over and over and over again, you guys. It's so good. It's on Apple Plus. This is not paid. I keep telling Amy and Lauren about it too. I'm going to keep bugging you guys until you watch it as well. I had watched some of Season 1 and then got busy for seven years or whatever it's been. And then I started seeing the promos for Season 4 and I was like, that show is still going, which I know sounds terrible, but I don't know anything. People who know me know. I don't know who's married to each other until like years later. I don't know anything about pop culture where it's like Amy's more tapped into that. But Season 4 was just incredible. One of the best finales of any show I've ever seen, but it was so lazy and lovely. So anyways, that's my contribution to what I did over break was be as sloth like as possible. I learned before that we started recording that Lauren and Amy don't really watch the parade. I love watching it. I usually just kind of have it in the background while we're cooking, but this year I was locked in. I loved it. And of course it made a lot of people mad. I don't know how people could be mad. I'm so glad millennials are in charge of this parade right now. I can't even tell you like Busta Rhymes, Lil Jon, K-pop Demon Hunters. But before we went on Thanksgiving break, we had our Home for the Holidays event in Sacramento, which we plugged quite a bit during Season 24. It was such a fun night. It was so much work because we did it the most independently than we've ever done it. Our team had to go and set up. We did have, luckily, more help this time, but it was a lot of work leading up to it. So I'm not going to lie. I was definitely like, I'm ready to not be stressed out about this anymore because I tend to overthink everything. But it all came together. Lauren flew in. She didn't have issues this time, which historically has not been the case because she comes all the way from the complete opposite side of the country a lot of times. Amy's flight was okay. We weren't sure how that was going to go with the government shutdowns and everything. So it all just came together. We're so thankful to the venue team. We had it at the North Natomas Community Center in Sacramento. This time, I really wanted to pick a venue where the money would go directly into the city. This was a great opportunity to do that. The facility is newer and the staff were fantastic. We had a pretty good turnout. It wasn't a massive turnout, but pretty much right after we announced ticket sales, the government shutdown happened. So many are struggling in the economy right now and the state of the world. So we didn't know what to expect. And every time we do these events, especially because we're doing them independently, we kind of don't know what the response is going to be like. I don't know the exact number of people we had, but it felt like a good number to me once everybody was there. We had a lot of space to like spread out and stuff, which I personally appreciated. And there was like an outdoor area. So I feel like the venue had a great flow. And as soon as people started arriving, I was just like, oh my God, this is why we do this because this is the best. It's so wild to meet people, especially listeners who have supported the show. And maybe I've only connected with them on Instagram before, but I've talked to them for years and then finally getting to meet them or getting to meet supporters from near and far away. We had an incredible listener named Brittany. I want to shout her out. It was her birthday that night. And she flew in from far away. And her boyfriend also flew in. I think you said Amy. Yeah, they lived in two different states. They decided they needed a vacation and this was like the date weekend they took and flew to Sacramento to hang out with us and to do karaoke with us. And he was like, it's going to make her birthday if she gets to sing with you guys. Like what? That's wild. She was the warmest, sweetest, most lovely human. What an honor to meet her and that she wanted to celebrate her birthday with us. They were awesome. Everybody was wonderful. We also had a lot of my friends who came out who I've known for years. A lot of folks I hadn't seen for quite a while. It was just amazing. I'd love to hear from you guys what the highlights were for you. I think meeting everyone was such a highlight for me. Every single time we have these things, it's mind blowing how big of a community it is. It's amazing. I don't even know the word for it. I struggle with this every time, but it truly is so magical to be able to create this space and also just to lift up this incredible nonprofit as well. I just get blown away and my expectations are exceeded every time with meeting everybody and seeing you guys. And it's just so much fun. I agree. I can't believe we did three of these this year. I saw Lauren like four times this year somehow, even though we live in completely different sides of the country. Nick from the Gathering Inn, who I have had the pleasure of knowing and being friends with for over 20 years. He has had a long relationship with the Gathering Inn. I've had several other close friends work for them. And so I've been aware and supported their mission for a while, but it felt so amazing to be able to do something like that for them specifically for a group that does so much good and houses and clothes and feeds. Children and families directly in the Sacramento and Placer County area and helps them get into housing, helps them through counseling and all different types of trauma-informed services. And as we know, domestic violence is often a factor for those who are unhoused. Hearing from Nick, he did a great job. He spoke about the Gathering Inn and the incredible work that they do. It was just awesome to get to hear from him. I'm curious what your highlights were. Amy crushed it at Trivia. We did Sacramento Trivia, which was so much fun. It felt like people really enjoyed that part. Even the dudes were really getting involved with the Trivia. Yeah. Gosh, well, meeting Brittany and spending her birthday with her and just the fact that someone would do that, fly all the way out to support. That will never leave me. Liz coming out, our mutual friend, who was a season one advertiser. Pew Pew Leaves Our Craft, if you know you know from season one. She still has that amazing business still going. She makes cool shit with lasers. I hadn't seen her in years. Amy, Liz and I used to see each other at conferences for writing and different professional stuff. Her and her husband came and everybody who came was so lovely. And I thankfully got to spend time talking to pretty much everyone that came since the event was a bit longer than the others in the past, which made me really happy because I really want to be able to speak to everybody and take pictures with everybody. So it was a perfect size in that way because we had just enough time for exactly everything we wanted to do with the amount of people we had. Another thing that struck me about the attendees is a few husbands said to me as they were coming in, my wife has converted me into being coming a listener, but also is your number one supporter, which is always really sweet. It's really cute how, yeah, the partners come. They're like commentating the interaction. You're like, hi, it's so nice to meet you. They're like, she's freaking out right now. She makes me listen to this in the car. I'm like, oh, okay. Thank you. I love it. I love a supportive king. There was also Kathleen. You guys did karaoke. You did a teenage dirt bag. She was like, I can't believe we just did karaoke together. Oh, yeah, because I had been thinking about doing that song. And then when she said she was doing it, I was like, this is perfect. Now I don't have to do a song by myself. I can sing it with them. It was epic. I loved it. First of all, the bartender had a very heavy pour, which God bless her. I was ready to go after like half a dirty Shirley. So it was a good time. It was also lovely to see where like the show started. Sacramento, your origin. Also, one of our former interns came out with her friend. They did Pink Pony Club. That was amazing. Yeah, it was a good time. I hope we can do some in the future. I just need a break. Maybe just one next year. What do you think in terms of location? You guys let us know where you want us to do it. I would love to do a New York event one day. I would love to do Boston because I've always wanted to go to Boston. And I know we have a big listenership there, but you never know where cases are going to lead us to depending on like what I'm working on and stuff. So sometimes it kind of works out. I think also we could do smaller meetups that are a bit more chill that might just be a lot easier to produce because really what it's about is connecting with people. And I know there's a lot of podcasts that'll do just like simple meetups at restaurants or things like that where it's just like meet here and hang out for a couple hours and it's chill. So I'm interested to see what it looks like in the future. When it comes to holiday gifting, I want to give things people really love. Beautiful, timeless pieces that they'll wear for years. That's why I'm going with Quince. From Mongolian cashmere sweaters to Italian wool coats, everything is premium quality at a price that actually makes sense. I just gifted some fabulous soft Mongolian cashmere gloves and I picked up a candle for myself. Every piece is made with premium materials from ethical trusted factories and priced far below what other luxury brands charge. Their craftsmanship shows in every detail. The stitching, the fit, the drape, it's elevated, timeless and made to wear on repeat. If you're looking to build a quality capsule wardrobe, look no further than Quince. Find gifts so good you'll want to keep them with Quince. Go to quince.com slash sww for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. Now available in Canada too. Quince.com slash sww to get free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince.com slash sww. Thank you so much. Indeed presents. Highers you can't afford to get wrong, like payroll manager. Hi, I was just checking my pay slip and it's all in Japanese yen. Yes, you're welcome. Sorry? Given the exchange rate between the pound and the yen, you're technically a millionaire now. Don't spend it all in one place. I can't really spend it anywhere. I'm a job for sponsored jobs. This is what happens when you don't sponsor your job on Indeed. So the next time you need someone to get the job done right, get matched with quality candidates with an Indeed sponsored job. Visit Indeed.com slash NextHire and sponsor your job today. Finding great candidates to hire can be like, well, trying to find a needle in a haystack. Sure, you can post your job to some job board, but then all you can do is hope the right person comes along. Which is why you should try Zip Recruiter for free at ziprecruiter.com slash zip. Zip Recruiter doesn't depend on candidates finding you. It finds them for you. Its powerful technology identifies people with the right experience and actively invites them to apply to your job. You get qualified candidates fast. So while other companies might deliver a lot of, hey, Zip Recruiter finds you what you're looking for. The needle in the haystack. See why four out of five employers who post a job on Zip Recruiter get a quality candidate within the first day. Zip Recruiter, the smartest way to hire. And right now, you can try Zip Recruiter for free. That's right, free at ziprecruiter.com slash zip. That's ziprecruiter.com slash zip. Ziprecruiter.com slash zip. Dinner time, it's where little moments are cherished. With blue cash preferred, get 6% cash back at US supermarkets and bring everyone together. I did say everyone. Learn more at americanexpress.com slash explore dash bcp. Terms and cash back cap apply with blue cash preferred. When life is hectic, energy ups and downs are all you need. If you're seeking energy reassurance, Eonnex can help. From smart tech that helps you take control of your energy future to always staying below the price cap with Nex Pledge. We're here for whatever's next. Just one of the reasons why we're rated excellent on TrustPilot by our customers. Find out more at eonnex.com. Next Pledge variable rates are always below the option price cap. 25 pounds exit fee per fuel applies. Eligibility and fees and fees apply. TrustPilot February 2026. There are things in life we make more complicated than they need to be. And things that we worry about that we don't need to. Like making tax digital for income tax. Summaps free MTD for income tax solution is ideal for sole traders turning over more than 50,000 a year. And it's already built into the sum up platform so you can stay compliant without paying for software or worrying about getting it wrong. Did I mention it's free? Getting started is easy. Just search sum up MTD online. In March we were at South by Southwest and had our event there and got to meet most of the season 23 survivors and meet so many of our supporters there. And then we had our LA event in July. We had a great turnout. It was hot as hell. It was also a really strange time, especially for LA because we didn't know this when we picked the date and location, obviously. But there was a lot of ice raids ramping up in LA around the time. My heart just goes out to LA from the fires at the start of the year to the ice raids. LA has just been through so much this year and while I don't live there, I love to visit and my best friend, Amy, lives there. And so many people that I love. We have an incredible community from LA that listens to the show. It's always been one of our biggest listenership cities. But we got this really cool venue that had like a pool and dogs were invited. And so many incredible supporters came out and local friends and a lot of creatives who have their own shows that are friends who live in LA came out to support. But it was really cool because I got to meet some survivors in person from past seasons that I had never met in person. That was really awesome. One being Tom from season 22 and Amy, you discovered you guys also had an interesting connection. Yeah. The moment Tom walked into the party, I flashed to his voice because in the scripting, audio editing, like review process, I'd heard it plenty. I guess it never triggered anything for me. But as soon as Tom walked in, I went, oh, shit, I know him. It's almost comical at this point because we joke all the time that I know everybody or I've met everybody or whatever. And it took me a little while to place him. In the evening, I think we were sitting there in the Airbnb, just digesting the day talking about it. And I think it hit me and I was like, oh my God, I was Tom's camp counselor. Of course, I wouldn't have known his voice because he was six at that time or maybe it was when he was a junior counselor. So he was like 11. But yeah, it was so funny. And we have since confirmed that we have known each other for maybe 20 years at this point, which is just a wild story. Didn't we call him once we found out? Yeah, we were back at the Airbnb. I called him. We were talking about it and it was so funny. He was cracking me up. I just love that guy. He's the best. He's an incredible spirit and it was so cool getting to meet him in person. And who else did we get to meet in person? Odessa. I had never met her in person either. And Madison McGee came out, Jake Teptoola, Chris Williams, a lot of industry people as well that we know, like, more behind the scenes folks who support us. But it was a good time. And again, we were raising money for great cause, transdo task force and tending the garden. We'll be sure to link their nonprofits as well as the gathering in again in the episode notes. You guys can check out the important work that they do. It was a great time. It was a lot of work putting on the events on top of all the other work that we do. But I feel like it raised a lot of awareness and money for good causes. And also it was really special to connect with listeners from different cities and have that really personal one-on-one time with each person that came out and really get to talk to them about what the show means to them or how it has made them feel or how they've connected to it. I feel like it was really restorative and like energizing for myself and the team to have that connection, especially in a year that was really tough. It brought a lot of joy within a lot of hardship. So very thankful to each and every person who came out and supported or people who just shared the flyers. Every bit that people contribute is meaningful to us and we appreciate it. I know it's not only me you touched on this a little bit, but I feel like it's important to like acknowledge as we're reflecting that it's been a really difficult year for a lot of us because of wars and political unrest and fuckery. I can't speak for anybody else, but for me personally, it's been a really tough year, but I feel like coming out on the other side of it, I'm reflecting a lot, learning a lot and growing a lot as a person. I'm definitely ready to start a new chapter. The seasons this year, season 23 and 24, kind of different in terms of subject matter for us, different areas that we've never dug into, very heavy in research, but also just heavy topics. I'm just curious from you guys what the year has been like overall and any reflections you might want to add. It's just a wild time to be alive and I think that 2025 made that very clear. Being informed is exhausting and overwhelming at times. Like you really do have to take time for yourself and center yourself. I think that was my theme for 2025, taking time for myself, trying to find as much centeredness as possible because everything else was just not. Yeah, it's so wild how much has changed in the last year. I remember being in Indiana working on season 22 when Trump was reelected and I just remember hearing people like cheering in the streets the morning after I woke up and I did not feel that way. It's really hard, especially survivors of sexual assault, to make peace with the fact that our president is a accused rapist and calls women piggy and says the R word and is the king of gaslighting. There's no real way to leave politics out of the work that we do. There's no real way to leave politics out of criminal justice. I'm certainly critical of all sides of the aisle. I definitely am a principles over party type of gal, but it's been extremely hard. The government shutdown was hard. The conflict in the Middle East, Palestine continues to be destroyed and the astronomical amount of murders that have taken place there, the unrest and wars in so many other countries. We're all sitting with so much and then in addition doing the work we do and sitting with the subjects we sit with, it can feel really overwhelming. It's really essential to also make time for peace and joy where we can. I heard from some listeners these seasons are really heavy and life's really heavy and it's just too much. I totally understand it and I think people have to listen when they have capacity and when it feels right for them. And to your point, Lauren, we all want to be informed, but being informed right now is pretty exhausting. I hope that the future will look different. I guess that's all I can say about that. What you said earlier about being a victim and having to see everyone vote for something that happened to you. I don't think a lot of people understand that. How it would bother you. People in my life sometimes they don't understand why I would be upset over these things. It almost reopens those wounds that you're trying to heal from, especially with the people that are closest with you. Yeah. A lot of people are becoming politically apathetic or apolitical because they're like all sides are bad. Yes, this is a different level. Somebody who's been indicted on many crimes. Somebody who has a lifelong track record and the misinformation is so rampant. Technology and AI and mistrust in the media and all of these things have contributed to this really divisive scenario that we're in now. I also say as a victim, my life is directly dictated by the legal system and the criminal justice system that's surrounding me. That's just how I see it as a victim and a survivor. My brother, technically he did get a different sentence, but politics have changed and his sentence has changed. He lost his extra year for using a knife for murdering my mom because in California the legal landscape changed. And what it tells me when people say like, I just can't get into that. It's like, well, then you haven't had to. So I think it's a deep privilege to stay apolitical. It means that potentially you're not being dragged through the criminal justice system. Everything is political. When you live in a society like the society we live in, you go to work, you have rights at work. Guess what determines that loss? Your relationships, where you can go, what you have access to, it's all fucking politics. And it's a very privileged position to take. If you're trying to seek justice through the criminal justice system, you're relying on things that are political. It's definitely intertwined with the work that we do. It's about principles. It's about people having civil rights. It's about people having religious freedom. It's about children having rights, women having rights, all people having rights, and removing abuse, removing harm, and making life more equitable. And you can put those in whatever packaging you like. But when you are sound on your core principles and what you accept and what you don't and what's important to you and what's not, and you make your political positions rooted in that, I think that's the best we all can do at this point. Speaking of children's rights or lack of rights, I would love to hear from you guys. Season 24 Reflections, we did so much research behind the scenes, so many lengthy interviews with survivors and their family members. We also got a ton of feedback and messages from people behind the scenes. Curious to hear from you guys, from your purview, what stood out to you. The first thing that stands out to me mostly is the resilience and strength of the survivors. Just how heartbreaking it was that many of them were survivors going into the programs, and then whether their parents were brainwashed to a certain degree or coerced or whatever the mechanism was, then stayed an ever-evolving length of time. These threads that pulled together through all of these stories, and just the immense work that the survivors have had to do to shed this trauma that was forced on them. Another thing that really stands out to me is that I've been filtering the submission inbox, and over the last several months as the season's been airing, almost all of the submissions, which we get a lot, are from survivors of the troubled teen industry. The sheer number of programs, survivors that have so many similarities, but also as all survivors are different, all their stories are different, but each survivor and each story that we've received has just been so heartbreaking, impactful, moving, and it's been so hard to encapsulate everything in 24 episodes. I feel like there's so many stories we've received that weren't heard necessarily, but bits and pieces were heard through other people's testimonies. The amount of people that got sent away, I was really, really surprised by that. You don't really hear about these programs, and you definitely don't hear about the abuse that happens in these programs. And also the amount of money that these programs are making behind closed doors is absolutely disgusting. There's just so much wrong. I agree. It's shocking to me not only, again, how little rights children have, and the legal loopholes or gaps in which these institutions are able to continue in so many places is absolutely shocking and heartbreaking to me and to us all as it should be. But the fact that it's also as prevalent as it is still was really surprising to me as we got into the research. Also, the influence of people like Dr. Phil or TV shows that were happening during the early aughts, these TV shows that were essentially capitalizing on this boom, quote unquote, within the so-called troubled teen industry. That was eye-opening to me the way that public figures like someone like Dr. Phil had instilled so much trust within his following and a lot of these parents that that was enough for them to trust that these places were a good idea. It's just very eye-opening to the far-reaching impact of even something as simple as a talk show. When we're not digging beyond the surface and asking enough questions and there's not enough oversight to know, is there scientific evidence to support this? What are the long-term effects of this? Who is qualified to conduct this work? Who's going to ensure that children are safe, etc.? With every season, we hope the right people hear it and overall that we'll continue to be able to share ways that we can help contribute to changing these laws and removing these institutions. The response that we got, the sheer number of submissions we got, not only from survivors but parents who place their children in these facilities or institutions, two of the interviews that really also stand out to me alongside the survivors of the programs themselves is Shannon and Terry, the parents that we heard from who unfortunately have lost their children but that had children at Ivy Ridge. Their episodes were extremely powerful and there was so much power in their ability to hold space for the people they were then and the people that made those choices then, the people they are now, their intentions, what they would do differently, where they hold themselves accountable, just so much respect for them as women and mothers. Something that really resonates with me that we did mention via narration and information that we found in digging into this topic but hearing directly from Max's dad in the final episodes was really powerful. The insidious ways that the programs would close and then reopen under new names and then even that programs were connected without even the parents knowing. So the two programs that Max was sent to, Max's dad didn't even know that they were affiliated with the same parent company. Obviously that information would go pretty far for a parent who's about to pump thousands of dollars into these programs. I'm very grateful for those parents who stepped forward and shared this information and shared their perspectives. I'm very grateful for everybody that offered their stories and offered their perspectives because, like Lauren said, a lot of people still don't know about these programs. Hailey mentions that a mental health professional that she went to didn't even know. So this was a really necessary season and all of the survivors are immensely amazing. Just an incredible collection of voices and perspectives and I loved working with so many neurodiverse people this season. So many other survivors have such cool creative interests and outlets. On a human level, I really felt like I connected with a lot of them and their energy and their interests. Visit Indeed.com slash Next hire and sponsor your job today. Sleep number to a good life sleep. I'm having a little bit of internet challenges. So Amy, would you mind reading the season 25 summary that lets listeners know what the next season will be about? Season 25 of Something Was Wrong discusses sexual violence and systemic betrayal within colleges and universities across the United States. From state schools to private campuses and insidious culture reverberates, one where institutions often prioritize reputation, athletics, and financial interests over the safety and well-being of their students. Through in-depth reporting and survivor testimony, season 25 explores the origins, evolution, and current failures of Title IX. The landmark federal civil rights law designed to protect students from sex-based discrimination in education. Survivors share their experiences navigating institutional betrayal, gaslighting, and harmful policies that too often shield and enable perpetrators rather than protect victims. We also examine the far-reaching impact of the 2022 Supreme Court decision Cummings versus Premier Rehab Keller, which limited the ability of survivors to seek emotional distress damages under federal civil rights laws, further weakening accountability for schools that mishandle sexual misconduct cases. Something Was Wrong's 25th season exposes how systemic failures, legal loopholes, and institutional self-preservation continue to silence survivors and what must change to make campuses truly safe. Amazing. Thank you so much for reading that. Sorry, you guys. My internet's acting up. It doesn't want to be working right now, either. We're in just that part of the year where it's like nobody wants to do anything. I was being really honest with Amy like the day before we were going out for Thanksgiving break. I'm like, I don't want to fucking do anything. I really don't. Also, Amy, while I have you on a positive note, we have an update on the Caitlyn Braun case, which we discussed in Something Was Wrong, season 18 episodes 1 through 7. Amy actually wrote this update and since my internet sucks right now, Amy, would you mind reading that for us as well? Something Was Wrong season 18 episodes 1 through 7 aired September through November of 2023 and highlighted the experience of Caitlyn Braun's victims, which included her former best friend, as well as an ex-girlfriend of Braun's, and several doulas who were scammed by her. Braun was initially arrested in March of 2023 for fraudulently seeking the services of numerous doulas across Ontario, Canada, and harassing many doulas she sought care from. A 2025 CBC news article states that, quote, in the year leading up to her crimes against doulas, Braun visited hospitals 178 times, presenting issues that weren't real or self-inflicted to obtain medical attention. She also reported being sexually assaulted 60 times at hospitals around the province. Allegations police determined were not true. She was cautioned by them to stop or face charges. Braun also falsely claimed several of her family members died and she'd been the victim of a home invasion. While working as a social worker, she lied to her boss that an 11-year-old client had sexually assaulted her. She was fired over the incident, end quote. Since Braun's initial arrest, we've had the opportunity to update you a few times on her journey, and today we have even more updates for you. First, let's do a quick run-through of details to refresh your memory. Braun, quote, pled guilty in December to 21 charges including fraud, indecent acts, false pretenses, and mischief for seeking the help of doulas in what ended up being false pregnancies from June 2022 to February 2023, end quote. During her related sentencing proceeding on January 17, 2024, Caitlin Braun, quote, spoke after over a dozen doulas shared that they were traumatized and financially set back by 25-year-old Braun's actions. The judge involved in this case, Justice Robert G, said on January 17 that he needed more time to reflect on the joint submission that the crown and the defense had put forward that Braun receive instead of jail time a two-year conditional sentence for house arrest with certain exceptions. It would be followed by a three-year probation period, and Braun would have to receive therapy. She would also have to wear a GPS ankle bracelet, undergo mandatory counseling, and is forbidden to contact the victims. Additionally, she was banned from using the internet and social media for two years, although we're still not sure how they would monitor that properly. Judge G announced the court would reconvene for Braun's sentencing on February 14, 2024. At her February 14th sentencing hearing, it was reported that Judge G made a statement, saying he empathized with the doulas who fell victim to Braun. Quote, the 21 offenses committed by this Braun caused significant long-lasting harm to her victims. The trauma caused was expressed eloquently by many during their victim impact statements. Many now have trust issues. It's impacted their abilities to carry out duties in their chosen professions as doulas. Some have left the profession entirely and have all suffered financially because of Miss Braun. G said he did not agree with the Crown and Defense's joint submission, asking for the two-year conditional sentence for Braun, but is reluctantly bound to impose the proposed sentence, given that Braun is young. She's a first-time offender, and she pled guilty. End quote. Two and a half months later, Caitlin Braun was arrested by Hamilton Police. On April 30, 2024, Braun was charged for April 2024 crimes committed while she was on house arrest. According to another CBC News article, Braun pled guilty to the four new charges in January of 2025, including two counts of obtaining by-false pretenses, services under $5,000, as well as two harassment-related charges. Caitlin Braun sentencing for her newest charges took place on June 9, 2025. According to CBC News, at the hearing, Braun was sentenced to three years in prison. The remainder of her house arrest sentence will also be spent behind bars, which brings her total prison sentence to three years and eight months of incarceration. When delivering Braun's sentence, quote, Ontario court justice Joe Furucci noted that a psychiatric assessment found Braun had a high risk of reoffending and inflicting psychological harm on others if she doesn't undergo treatment and take medication. Even then, she is very likely to offend and create victims, he said. End quote. CBC News reports that Judge Furucci noted that Braun's psychiatric report diagnosed her with borderline personality disorder, antisocial personality disorder, anxiety, and depression. He also pointed out that the report determined she was aware of what she was doing when she committed the crimes. He said it would, quote, be a danger to the safety of the community, end quote, to allow Braun to continue to serve her sentence under house arrest. Interesting to add is that during Braun's psychiatric assessment, she was assessed for factitious disorder, but it was concluded her behavior does not reflect that diagnosis. Factitious disorder is when a person fabricates symptoms to gain attention from others. Judge Furucci pointed out the quote, Braun posed as having a wide range of issues against many different people in her life, which isn't typical of factitious disorder. And when confronted with the truth, she admitted to lying, apologized, and sought forgiveness, which is also not typical, end quote. What remains to be true is that nothing has been typical about this case since the get-go. And although we're happy, Braun's victims have received some semblance of justice, as well as potential solace in knowing that she won't be able to harm other doulas for the next three years and eight months, the response to her actions have often felt like too little, too late. In Braun's case, we've seen a lot of delayed reactive justice, which is in deep contrast to the proactiveness that's required to keep her from perpetrating more crimes. Our hope for the future, as at the criminal justice system, will be vigilant in their handling of her case. Our hearts are with the survivors of Braun's now and always. So beautifully written and read. Thank you so much, ABC. Our hearts are definitely with the survivors. And I hope that Braun will be reformed through this experience and get the care that she needs. But we have been thinking of the survivors and hope that in some way they're able to gain some semblance of healing from this conviction. Changing gears a little bit. I wanted to talk about our other show, What Came Next, which Amy hosts and produces. How many episodes are there now? You know what? It feels really, really special. I'm getting chills right now. You asked me what number and you know what number we happen to be on right now? What? 152, which is my mom's birthday. And it's like my lucky number. So 152 episodes are out right now. The 153rd will be out on Friday. So weird that we get to update on this exact number. It just feels symbolic. I love that so much. What continues to impress me is Amy's ability to connect in each and every one of these interviews and the heart that she really has for the work. And for the time that the survivors contribute. I just love working alongside her because I know she puts her whole heart into every single episode that she does. And she contributes so meaningfully and with so much thoughtfulness. And shout out to Steven, who is our audio editor on What Came Next. He's a fantastic partner to our whole team. And shout out to Becca, our continued audio editor. She's been on our team over three years now. She's incredible. Shout out to Steven and Becca, who make us sound so much better than we do live and always crush it. But Amy, I'd love to hear about a few recent interviews that you've done. Some episodes you've got coming out in the future that you're excited about or anything that you'd like to share. Thank you. Well, 152 episodes in, it's really hard to highlight specific episodes because every survivor has deeply impacted me. And I believe the audience. So I'm so grateful to connect with each one. But one of the most powerful episodes that we were able to release this year on What Came Next is an episode, I would say 18 years in the making. I had the ability to speak to my brother's ex-girlfriend. Her episode was released on August 1st. Her name is Jen Holman, and her episode was called There is a Softer Life. She and I have kept loosely in contact for over the last 18 years through social media. And not long ago, she reached out and asked, I guess, consent if she could share her story about surviving my brother. We talked about her healing process and what those years have been like for her. It became clear that she wanted to share her story on What Came Next. It was a really powerful process for both of us. I learned a lot about the night of my mom's murder, to be honest. I think I just wasn't in a mental space to have that conversation prior, but this work has kind of opened me up in a lot of ways. She and I actually will be collaborating on something that we'll be exciting to share about in the new year in 2026. Every survivor just leaves me so floored. What Came Next on Instagram, the DMs are a wonderful space to recommend powerful stories if you want to hear an interview or coverage on our platforms. I received a DM from a really faithful listener. She suggested a survivor and I went to DM that survivor and I had realized I had had a message from that person. Her name is Kelly Sutliff from years ago who had actually asked to be on What Came Next and share her story. It had been sitting in my message requests for a while because I don't often see those or they get hidden. So it meant a lot to me to finally be connected with her and to be able to share her story, which is really, really powerful. She is a mental health professional and a survivor and an advocate and a nonprofit owner. So it just blows my mind that I get to meet all these incredible people and share them with our platform. And I'm so grateful to do that with you and with the Broken Cycle Media team. Also, just want to thank both of you, Lauren and Amy, again, for everything that you contribute day in and day out to the survivors in our community. And cannot thank you enough for everything that you do. It's impactful and it makes a real difference. So thank you deeply. And I also want to say thank you so much to every survivor and expert that has shared with us this year. And for each and every listener and supporter of the show, we appreciate you so deeply. And if you'd like to support the work that we do, you can become a community member on Apple Podcasts. You can leave us a positive review wherever you listen. You can support our sponsors or purchase a sticker from our new sticker shop at brokencyclemedia.com. But no matter how you choose to contribute, we just cannot thank you enough. We hope you guys have a wonderful holiday season and we have so much incredible content coming your way in 2026. We look forward to being in the work together with you guys. I just hope everybody has a good rest of their year and stays safe out there. If the world were like a sleep number mattress, everything would adapt for your comfort. Because as your life changes and your body changes, sleep number mattresses adapt and shift to give you personalized comfort night after night. And now everything's on sale during our Memorial Day event. Save up to $1,200 on mattresses for a limited time. To experience a whole new world of comfort, visit a sleep number store or go to sleepnumber.com. Sleep number to a good life's sleep.