James Pumphrey and Scotto Talk About Being Enemies, VWs and Other Cool Stuff - VERY VEHICULAR 006

What's up everybody welcome back to another episode of very vehicular. I am your host Brian Scato and today We have mr. James Pumphrey who referred to himself as potentially my enemy he jokes But there was a period of time where donut and Hoonigan were kind of rivals we talk about that We talk about the business of making content Obviously we dive deep into just Volkswagen nerdage and we talk about a lot of everything else I didn't really ever know James that well. We worked on two opposite sides and like he said we were sort of rivals So this was a great one. It was good to hear sort of his side of things. I got to talk about my side It was a great conversation. Hope you guys enjoy it All right, so I invited you on this show like seven months ago, I was thinking about that on my way here I was thinking about it on my way here because there was no traffic We're recording this like four days after Christmas and I was like, you know what I'm glad I put it off Yeah, I'm glad I pushed it because I'm just cruising down the Long Beach So I invited you then it's funny because at that time we knew each other a lot less than we do now Yeah, because we one worked on a movie together and we'll get into that and then we also did Tref punks together And I think we just talked a little bit more Yeah, but I it's funny because the original idea was like oh we could just do a simple like get to know each other Podcast because I think most people think we know each other. Yeah, we're very We're two planets in the same Galaxy solar system, but like honestly, but I think I don't think we could have been further apart No, we were technically enemies. I think would you see it that way? I wouldn't but I think public I don't know. It's interesting because we talked about this a lot like we were both The biggest of who we're doing it. So without question, we're looking at your guys numbers, right? You're sure us back and forth and And I'll just say it off the bat like you guys are beating us on numbers But we were like but we also were like doing a very different show Yeah, but you guys are also the reason that we did a lot of the stuff that we did, okay I think it's like two bands, you know, and I think like one of us is blurred one of us is oasis and Wait, which one are we I don't know. I think we're blur I think you're although a quick little fun fact oasis was one of Ken's favorite bands Yeah, I was just gonna talk about it Yeah, I grew up in New York City working on cars and alleyways on jack stands Which means I spent a lot of time on my back as I've gotten older and bigger I realized I need a better creeper because I've been known to bottom out a few of the cheap ones Enter Vipers man-sized laydown creeper as expected. They've got great casters just like their stools The fabric hammock design is super comfy and it even has a nice adjustable headrest Which is great for those undercard naps. Check them out. Viper industrial comm. That's Viper with a Y a few years back I had the privilege to set up the first collab between heatwave visual and hoonigan industries And I'm excited to see they're continuing this year with the new Travis Pastrana Jim Connna future tech glasses These look rad plus they're super safe because they live up to ANSI Z87 standards with 2 millimeter thick lenses That's right safety glasses and shades all in one The arms are wrapped in the Brattaroo livery both inside and out and the high troll nose pad makes these wearable all day long Go grab your pair on he way visual comm while they last Winter is coming which for many of us just means snow and church van is so ready because I got some Toyo Open Country AT3s on there. This is a great off-road tire that also performs really well in the snow It's got 3d multi-wave sipes and additional lateral grooves Which translates to giving you more traction in both wet and snowy conditions Plus it comes with a triple peak mountain snowflake stamp allowing you to access most chain only roads during storms Also, it's available in elode ratings for massive beasts like my van as you can see Toyo has me covered for my off-road rakes all the way to my soon-to-be-ready track ready Audi My sketch group when I was in my 20s like we loved Oasis really I think it's why I burn a lot of relationships early on Because we're just like we're the best We're not gonna be afraid to say it. That's our persona We're just gonna like walk into parties and like mean mug people. It's like who says comedians have to be nerds No, we're cool. We all like dress so when you the no-gallagher of the group. I'd say I'm probably I'd say I'm more of a Liam. Okay in my life. I think I always have a no Yeah, like Jesse or Zach Redpath are my no right now funny thing I would just jump on this so we were all sitting around it here again And we're like it was a moment where we're thinking about expanding and doing more and As making a list of people to call and hire and Jesse Wood was at the top of the list And then I reached out to him like two days later and I was like, hey, man What are you doing? He's like, oh, I just joined doughnut and I was like thinking like I wonder how different life Like my life would be totally different things would have changed a bit Yeah, so I would have been totally different because like Jesse was a ripper back then just in terms of like making like drift content Like work with a bunch of people we knew so he was just this like guy We knew from that space and then he went on to obviously go and build like this massive thing with doughnut I want to give him his flowers because I feel like he doesn't get him often Dude Jesse gets plenty of flowers. Does he? Oh for sure. You think so? Yeah, totally All right, no flowers for Jesse. Take them back because no he deserves all of them But everyone assumes that the guy behind the scenes doesn't get it, but totally he does I make a point of it, but dude like yeah, Jesse's I think What I've been looking for my whole like since I moved to LA is just like a creative partner Where like our relationship? I think what you and Ken had whereas like we really are Additive to each other and I've worked with a lot of people when I was like doing comedy and writing movies and stuff and But those guys were like trying to do exactly what I was trying to do And we were like trying to do it you feel more competitive. Yeah, and there's like ego involved and Finding a creative partner who just like fills the gaps and is like really good at all the stuff that you're not good at but then also appreciates and like points out stuff that you're good at Was like I mean literally it changed my life I think also working with a partner and you were kind of getting at this like who doesn't want the same end result that you do Right for themselves. Yeah, right like I had no ambitions to be a driver I really had no ambitions to be in front of camera that sort of came Because of need when we were making stuff. Yeah, but you're in front of camera like a Spielberg type character like I used to reference you like as I was Like we were hiring new staff and like the cast at doughnut got bigger and bigger. Yeah, like Before you know when I was planning on just like making that my career We would talk about like how I would evolve and I was like, yeah, I'll be like Maybe I'll just like be more like scato And I'll like roll in and then I'll go take a phone call And so at one point like, you know, I come from like a mood like Traditional media background. So like I like characters and stuff and everyone at doughnut had a character and I was like at one point. I was like, alright, so and I think Jesse came up with this, but he's like, alright, so you're a mix of scato And Kenny Powers Michael Scott from the office. That's a good mix. Yeah I'm by the I'm honored to know that I was part of that for sure dude, but I it's funny because You know our history with doughnut goes all the way back to when Ben first like kind of came up with the I mean the first time our logo ever appeared was on Ken's jacket and right before slightly different But it's funny that you call it that way because to us that was before doughnut existed, right? Yeah, so it was like that was because we worked with ornamental conifer to do his jacket And doughnuts were just almost like this joke. We had just done Or we were in the process of doing Jim Connate 8 I think and it was just like there were too many doughnuts in that video and it was just like doughnut doughnut doughnut And it was like we just started calling it like the doughnut videos, right? Oh, yeah, this joke like the origin of doughnuts really interesting to me because we were somewhat involved early on I don't think we really talk about that much But like Ben Conrad was at Logan was you know director for Jim Connate 4 through 8 I worked under him kind of coming up on all of those and and I said this in a previous episode like I Obeen so much because like he taught me a ton and gave me a route to be a director And and I think the biggest thing I have to thank him for is like he just lacks ego in that way Yeah, he totally just let me do my thing, right? He's the reason I joined on it I was done being in front of the camera. Did you know him from before? No, I got a Random like a cold email from his partner Nick Mosari Yeah, and they were like I've told this story before but they were like We just did a short film with your friend Josh Fadham Josh and we asked if there were any Comedians who liked cars and they and Josh said there's only one Just one just me and like back then Liking cars was sort of like a bit of a dirty secret It was like a third date confession If I was like sure that a girl was starting to like me I could then be like, okay, I Drive a stupid car. Mm-hmm Like we can't valet my car right. Yeah And so certain places we can't go because I'm afraid to park my car Yeah, if we get certain gas stations we can't stop at because my car is too low totally Yeah, if we go to Palm Springs, we will be taking your car Because I chose And so I went in and met with them and like at that point I was just a little exhausted by auditioning and just playing that game and I was like dude Ben is the coolest guy I've ever met Yeah, and I'm gonna do what he does so he is that like just twirl his hair just dude. Yeah, exactly And then like make big decisions and for some reason he was like yeah, you can just all hang out with you and Smoke cigarettes and yeah go to bars and I'll just answer any questions you have and involve you in Everything I'm doing and I was like, okay cool This is what I'm gonna do and it was like kind of a fluke that I ended up on camera Cuz you came into donut like year two, I think right like they did a year of trying a bunch of different things So they started Matt the CEO donut quit his job at Like his his previous job in August. Yeah, awesome. I got my first email at the end of January, okay of 2016 Yeah It's just interesting to us because like we kind of were watching it from the outside and then And I like I don't want to get into it some stuff happened with us like behind the scenes not with Ben but with other people there and we just kind of distance ourselves and Went on did our own thing and actually the original reason it was called donut was because Ben and Nick saw it as a company That Ken and I were gonna be involved in and they offered us shares and We already sort of had a plan of wanting to do content with Hoonigan Like that was already in the line and when we looked at the business model It just wasn't it wasn't it didn't really fit for what we wanted and also I think kind of what the expectation they had for Ken to do stuff and for Ken early on that kind of media wasn't really interesting It wasn't till later on it was more of something I wanted to do So it was like, all right Yeah, you guys kind of go do your thing and so on and then I feel like you know Obviously donut really got it's like it's groove when you guys started doing like the you know The explainer up to speed stuff and it was interesting because I kind of back to before being like we were the enemies was like It was like I don't know if we ever saw you guys were definitely competition But in the beginning you guys did something completely different. Yes, it was more like a tie It was more like if we were both on primetime television We were in the same time slot, but it was like friends and Star Trek It was like two completely different shows, but it just happened to be like Arctic monkeys in the strokes I feel like they're a lot closer than that Yeah, I think like enemies is the wrong word, but competition for sure and for a while the only competition. Yeah, and I think like Did you guys ever see motor trend as competition? We saw them as honestly like they were my I Say it I was like I want to take out motor trend. Yeah, they were like Like I had like my crosshairs on 100% and For them because they were in our crosshairs, too Like I don't think we looked you guys are doing something so different than us that we looked in motor trend And this probably has a lot to do with like my history in print as like they were the evil Empire totally Yeah, there are guys over there like Finnegan Fryberger, you know, obviously eventually Tony Angelo But I just looked at them as like you guys are the enemy totally We were making stuff was zero dollars and they had a bajillion dollars And and that like showrunners and all these extra people that I wished we had and it wasn't that like I You know roadkill was the first thing nominal like what I do, you know, like it was like the Like it was it changed the entire industry and it inspired Everyone who's come after them whether they realize it or not. I would say them in mighty car mods. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, yeah, totally But like it wasn't that I didn't like motor chen because I loved motor chen it was it was like proof of What I could do. Yeah, like do as well as they were doing we had We did this like industry event where we invited a ton of people from the industry to Hoonigan when we hit like some ridiculous arbitrary number was like 1.4 billion like minutes watched or something and We invited one of the guys Matt Boyce who is who is that motor tram? Is one of the sales guys and he came and he came up to me and I'm like, oh, how have you been? You know and he kind of gave me the sob story It was like this moment when like things were kind of rough over at motor trend and then he turned to me and he said I'm not gonna ask you how you've been because all I hear from everybody who works at motor trend is Hoonigan this Hoonigan that Have you seen what Hoonigan did and like that was the moment that I felt like we won Yeah, because like I had someone from inside a motor trend like and like he's a really funny guy And he was saying it in the very like self deprecating but fun way Oh, just to give me that moment to be like, hey, you guys are kind of killing it and apparently you're killing it like you know with Like half the resources we are and I think that was what was the coolest part for me was like how little resources we had Comparatively to what they were going and doing because they had more now I don't say TV size budgets not by any means but they had more of that structure than I think we did than you guys did Yeah, I mean like I think you got to keep it in check Because it can get out of control and you can end up being a dick and people not liking you but I think it is at least when you're starting it's healthy and Beneficial to create with a chip on your shoulder 100% I actually Didn't like once we got sort of in that top tier position Uh-huh be like because then all you can do is fall, right, right? Like I heard this thing the other day and it was like something about you know, you chase a goal You know, you're chasing this goal But no one ever tells you that once you get the goal then you have to try to keep it And I'm keeping the goal is actually harder than than achieving 100% because you know like we hear I've been thinking a lot lately about like all these buzzwords that we hear all the time like authenticity and community Yeah, yeah, stuff like that and like what they actually mean and I think people misinterpret them and I've been thinking about what authenticity actually means because I'm working on this new project and When you're on the top and I had this realization with donut like at one point We were getting more views than any other automotive channel on YouTube. We were the biggest. Yep, and I was like we can't like we can't Act like we used to like we can't right saying that we're the little guy anymore because now we are Motor trend. Yeah, and I remember thinking about that I we had a meeting with me Matt and Jesse in the conference room of Our first office on Purdue and I was like I want I want to take Matt was like, what do you want to do? I was like, I want to be bigger than motor chen and he was like, all right Let's do it and then we work and we were like bigger than everybody but we were still Like pretending that we weren't and we were pretending that we were still like the little guy and I like gathered everybody I was like, we got to figure this out because now there's guys like sea boys and You know Jimmy Oaks and all these other guys with you know, I don't want to be like narcissistic and think that like I'm on their brain but like Motor Chen was on mine and so like just like we were Wanting to take out that empire we were now owned by private equity and operating with like millions of dollars a year And we were the biggest and like in order to maintain authenticity into actually Act in like what that word means like I think before I left I was like having these conversations It was like, what do we do now? Like what do we do as the biggest thing? See I think the one thing for us at Hoonigan was always different was I would always just go do something new. Yeah So I would either be like, hey, let's create a new show But then even outside of content like hey, let's go do events like let's go do this on the apparel side Let's go do whatever and a lot of that stemmed from me really enjoying the startup phase Yeah And the biggest joke was like Hoonigan was a startup inside of a startup inside of a start It was like a nesting egg of startup So like there was always this new thing to go chase with like a new goal Which also allows you to no longer focus on like this one thing that feels so important Like hey, we're number one if we're not number one anymore because like well you guys obviously had that with daily content Like we had it with Jim Conant. Oh, they're still do yeah, like no one's ever touched that Yeah, but like there was always that fear that someone would and someone eventually will or maybe not I don't know in some ways. I think that the format is over Like I don't think anyone's making that kind of content anymore I think it's sort of like it I always say like that film is grandfathered into the algorithm And I don't think it works for anyone new like you can make a better film than Jim Conant But it probably wouldn't do as well. I think even when we were doing stunt stuff like I would call it Jim Conant like Yeah, and it just it was something that just worked for us and like we were happy if you goaded on that But I think for us it was always, you know, hey, what's this other thing we could go chase? What's this other thing we could go do? You know the one thing we never got to that I was really interested in was like building like a really cool destination like a place that people were gonna come and like Experience it and we called it Hoonigan land and it was this concept of like how do we do this really cool place like a place that lives Like they're not like an event or like no like a permanent place like something like I would it was gonna start as like a Traveling show and it was gonna be something that grew out from burn yard But the idea was like it eventually becomes this place for other people and like I know like Cletus has freedom factory and like that I thought was a brilliant concept, but this was more like what is the Disney world for car guys look like? Yeah, right like how could you come and do this because one of the coolest things? And I don't know if you guys really ever got to experience this at Donut But like with our both the Long Beach office and the Compton office We had a store and like getting to meet people who just randomly would come to the store was crazy because none of them were from LA Orosie everybody was like coming into town elsewhere and it became this thing like hey I came into town to go to actually to go to Disneyland and while I'm here I had to stop by and check out Hoonigan or the dad had to come by Hoonigan or whatever And I realized like man this just doesn't exist like there isn't this thing that Brings everybody to one place in automotive and there should be because there's all of us right There's so many of us here and I remember when I came to LA for the first time like going to a couple dealerships It really used to be this like motorsports bookstore on Santa Monica Boulevard back in the day and like You know you go check a couple boxes But there wasn't like this one cool place to go and like that was this thing we were working on Like right as the company sold and then it never happened. I will say that like I think we Got really good at making Like videos, you know like you guys were hyper focused. Yeah, great. And we didn't do anything else Yeah, like we made we did pretty well with you know apparel and stuff, but like as far as like building out the brand like you guys had like burn yard and We we were like kind of like just in the content mind Yeah, but you guys were I mean your owners were media people Yeah, right like I was a media person who kind of enjoyed branding Ken was a brand and marketing person who? Content was just something to tell a story with you know, so I think there was always this like hey How can we do this? How can we do the next thing? How can we do the next thing? Do I think to actually is a bit of our failure cuz I think but with some one point we were doing way too much Yeah, way too much going on you think that was a failure point Oh for sure Yeah, sure because I was spread across so many things and I would start something and then I would move to something Else and then my void would be felt on that thing. Yeah, it's like I didn't really ever replace myself There were there was a lot everyone did their own thing and everyone kind of got to a point where like very few people were Replaceable right like we didn't have a lot of redundancy and realized like Vinnie was on camera But he was also our number one sales guy Yeah, so it's like everybody was doing two jobs and it worked really well until it didn't right, you know Nobody was just talent It wasn't till like the last few months that we started to move people's like talent only deals and that didn't work either Because then they weren't in the building all the time and the vibe changed but like people didn't want to do all the talent And then also be at work all day. I'd say that Was for me when the vibe changed at donut, right? Like we all were writers or producers or like when I got hired at donut, I wrote like I was a copywriter I just I wrote sales decks. Okay and I think there is something to be said about like you're saying like startup mentality and Kind of being involved in everything and then once you're finally on camera You kind of like you're all sort of speaking the same language and right moving the boat in the same direction And then eventually you're showing up to do a shoot and you're there for three hours And like it just doesn't again. It's like I think it lacks authenticity and well I think something that's really interesting is like our start was was not intentional, right? like we had all this camera equipment we were doing a bunch of like agency work level stuff and That was what the business like that was our business, right? And actually we were making more money off of white label and doing that kind of stuff like we did You know, we launched the new canam X-Ray when it came out We were doing all those kind of things as well as making Jim Conno films and one day I was just like let's go make some cool stuff for YouTube Like we have the equipment like let's just make it with the people we have right and we launched daily transmission And that sort of became this thing and it wasn't intentional like we never sat there and like sat and like wrote out an idea It was more like hey just quick ideas. Let's go run with them Nobody was supposed to be talent people just became talent, right? Like it was all very sort of like natural and that worked really well until I think the expectation was to make more and more and more And then all of a sudden it went from being, you know, very unintentional to very intentional Right and like I think some of that really intentional stuff was fantastic, but I think there's other times you're just like Okay, this was a lot more fun when we were just going out in the yard and filming it But you can't do that forever like it's impossible. It just doesn't work like every I don't think it's because we hear from people All the time. Oh daily transition was the best show like why won't you guys make it again? It's like it's like a band's first album dude I say that all the time like I watched the that first season of high-lows like the first time we built cars and we like rented This shop in Santa Carita and we like turboed these two 350 Z's and like watching that Series there's no way any of us would do that now like we were up for like 48 hours Working and we were all making like 60 grand a year and like there's just no way we would do that and You know, we were that was like at the beginning of donut where we were also like working seven days a week because we just liked Hanging out with each other. Yeah, and we were all just like Really this group of friends. We all lived within like two miles of each other and would if we weren't in the office we were hanging out in each other's houses, yeah, and We were just like we were at that point We were just rolling cameras and working on cars and like just kind of stoked to be there and I think the the magic of that really lies in The time and I think you know leaving donut and starting speed like as a much older person and a much different position in my life You know, I went through like a long period of like sort of like resentment And then like kind of mourning the loss of this awesome thing that I did and then Kind of thinking like oh, how do I do that again? But then I heard like Jerry Seinfeld talk about Seinfeld and he was like it was lightning in a bottle He was like that group of people to come together at that time when all of that worked like everything going on outside of the show and Then for all those people to be at the point in their lives where they could like dedicate Themselves in that way to that thing like what a fortunate position to be put in by the universe and just like you know, it's like where YouTube was where Automotive content was where the automotive industry was where Jesse was where I was where Matt Levin was where like you were where hurt was where Vin was to all come together at that moment and like make this thing like dude How fortunate we were to be able to just be a part of that thing I totally agree people all the time will come to me like man I'm so sorry about what happened such and such. I'm like and I just steal the cliche of like man We were there for a good time out a long time. Yeah, like it was so much fun when it was going on Yeah, and I look back at it now and it's almost like any relationship Like I think like you get out of a relationship when you're first out of it You're like you hate the person. Yeah, you hate their new boy. You hate their new boyfriend You hate their new this and you can't believe that you never liked their dog anyway and whatever it is Do you ever think that they're actually fucked up? And like you did you go through all of that? And then you you hate your friends who still hang out with 100 play. Why do you still follow dude? Why do you yeah? And you go through all of that and then you meet someone else and you you sort of feel those voids that were in your life And then you look back and you're like Yeah, feelings anymore And that's like a bit of where I'm out of like man It was such a good time that I had with those boys and like got to do all this really cool stuff and would have fun like punk rock DIY era of my life where we just got we had the Like the privilege just go make whatever we wanted. Hey, you want to make a car show? That's like mythbusters We're gonna call it scumbag labs. Yeah. Yeah, great. We can do that Like that's totally the kind of show you want to make and it was like we got to take this time and make all the stuff that Like Discovery Channel would have never greenlit for us because it was either too weird or it was too provocative Or it didn't like land on the the steps that like a three-act show for them needed to be And you say that and I think it brings up I Think both of us come from a place where like before we were doing YouTube videos We were able like we were in the rooms and having those conversations like we could talk to Discovery I mean get a meeting with Like a TV channel and the reason that we were doing the stuff that we were doing is because those guys didn't get it Yeah, and like they would never let us so we both of us were like well I'm gonna do it myself. Yeah, and in that time of and that's why we went into YouTube Mm-hmm, and in that time of us being like fuck it I'm just gonna do it myself that entire industry just went away and now all my friends or all these people I know who are like Doing that are like man. You really you really saw the writing on the wall You really like got out and like started the YouTube thing like right at the perfect time and I'm like oh no I didn't do this on purpose I was I was giving up. Yeah, I was just failing I was yeah, I was giving up and I just like stumbled into the right decision Dude Ben Conrad and I pitched Netflix a show in like 2015 So this is two years before who niggin ever does daily transmission a year or so before a doughnut We pitched them a show with Chris Harris who then later on went on to go to top gear and Todd Richards a pro snowboarder as like Anthony Bourdain type kind of like no reservation show and we went and pitched on the show idea and like we thought it was great They obviously never made it and I think that was one of those things where I was like man This show sounds so perfect like they didn't understand who Chris Harris was like they didn't get it and like then you go and you watch those Pieces like work later on you're like they just didn't understand it and that was like I guess we'll just go make stuff for YouTube Yeah, yeah, I don't know Totally do you let me I want to kind of go back to something we were saying before which was you were mentioning how There's this lightning in the bottle moment like you're at speed now I'm here doing my own thing and as like I start to think about working with new teams Like how do you keep that like how like even it may never be lightning in a bottle But it could still be something pretty good in a bottle like how do you stop that from going away? Like like as someone who went through it and I don't know and again This is might be the longest conversation that you and I will have had Because you and I Saw each other at events in between things we obviously worked on drifter together But that was like very focused on what we're doing And I think traffic punks was just like kind of like a cool like kickback kind of moment where we just got to chill a little bit Right, so I don't really know that much on your respect your your perception But I've heard from other people who've been in around on it like and it's anything at Hoonigan You put too many people in the same room that are creative and and things change private equity comes in all this stuff happens You eventually get to a point where? It's sour is a bit it sounds like it's sour like how do you stop that now? Like how would you do it different do you have an idea do you think about that? Is it something that's in your brain? I mean, I think like We're only a little over a year into speed But I mean so speed is me Jesse would Zach Redpath SR and Now Tim Moore and then we have another editor this guy Tom, but like the four owners are me Zach Jesse SR So me is me Jesse is Jesse Zach is just an amazing director and a really great writer and just a guy that like I mentioned him in my Why I'm leaving donut video just like we did season two of high low We all were like we got stuck on the side of a mountain like it was just sort of like I quit for a week Zach was like I'm moving to Paris and We were like well, we'll give you like a promotion like a full-time like contract like job he's like now I'm just gonna like go to Paris and so like Almost immediately like when we started speed I was like we got to get Redpath and so like he was the first guy I actually pitched speed to he was the first Person that heard the name the first and because I was telling him I told him and Matt Levin Because I was nervous to tell Jesse and I thought if both of them liked it Then I could tell him that they both liked it because he respected both of them, right, right? So and then SR who is like just this amazing editor And the four of us own speed right now. Oh nice and so I think To me like Donut we just tried so much stuff and we had no idea what we were doing and like I didn't even know like The industry I was entering into all I knew was like I was kind of sick of doing what I was doing and I really liked these guys and now I get to hang out and so like it evolved so many times and changed what it was so much Speed is much more intentional. I think and I think Like we're older than we were and all of us have a lot more experience like we all came from doughnut and so I think like Speed is very much a second band Like I have no desire to make speed as Big as doughnut, right? I just wanted to be cooler Yeah, and more Intentional and so I think that like all of us are on the same page with that like Intentional like it's speed is on purpose Whereas like doughnut was the only thing that we were playing like wanted to do is be bigger Right, right and let's just like be more popular and be bigger and like we don't know what we're doing like this worked Maybe that worked and I think like there's still that element with speed like I say like every time we Make a video in a new genre We're sort of asking permission to be able to talk about that stuff like oh, are we allowed to talk about clothes? right are we allowed to talk about Outdoors stuff both of those were yes. Are we allowed to talk about crypto? That was a no And so I'd say like To me it's just like a much smaller team much smaller like outward ambitions and just like the project and Like how it looks and how it feels and how it's like presented I'd say is like Much more mature and much more intentional. So I think like we're all I Don't know just like very much on the same page and I think we're all working on the same thing I think the aspiration thing is the most important like when we were doing it again It was always like how do you get bigger totally? How do you get bigger? How do you have more audience? How do you have more views? How do you have how do you sell more product? And it was all about like this weird like numbers chase. Yeah, and It wasn't until I left that I realized that if you're like at some point like you know our total our total number was like this 25 million You know audience number based on multiple channels all this stuff, right? And you're like if you're trying if you're looking to reach 26 million what you're not doing is servicing like the original core 500,000 or the original core million people who who ride or die with you every day instead like you're continuing to broaden this audience And how could that actually really be good? Right because if you and I think you and I go back to the same analogy you keep going back to your favorite band The minute your band makes a song to sell on the radio or to be an MTV hit I might be Dating myself, but you know or to hit those numbers on Spotify It's like or to become a TikTok song They are now losing the the whole thing that made you like them to begin totally right and but it's also difficult because at the same time I respect from bands where it's like that first album You don't want to make it anymore because you've already made it So it's like sometimes repeating the first album over and over and over again is also just trying to like continue to capture Lighting in a bottle versus go do something new totally and get that bag. You know what I mean? absolutely, but I think It's just a different kind of project and I think like kind of culturally right now I Feel like there was like this time for about a decade where just everyone like had this attitude where it's like Like you and I are similar ages like growing up in the early No idea how you are. Yeah, I have no idea how I was gonna say you could be anywhere from 35 to 44 Hell, yeah, you live in that you live in the yeah, thanks. You know old. I am 43. Oh, thanks. I'm 46 Appreciate the down on that one. Um, the other day heard told me I was 50. So, you know I Think there's this period where like We all just kind of agreed where it's like if it doesn't Like even if it sucks if a lot of people like it you got it me it's good Mm-hmm, like whereas like I think we do that's true No, yeah, I don't I used to but I don't think so. Yeah, and I think that It's sort of an opinion. I'm trying to form Well the other day because I want to the other day we were on a panel and you said something that I don't think it's a hot Take but I think it's a take people don't want to say which is people will say like oh, you know It's you know, my stuff's not doing well because of whatever because of the algorithm because of this or because of that And you said something like it may just not be good. Yeah, right? Like you have to like take that as a potential variable and a lot of times it can a lot of times It isn't good and it's still popular That is true. I'd say yeah, and like there's a there's different ways to be good like Mr. Beast is very good at the algorithm, right and he's very good at attention hacking Little kids Does mr. Beast make good things? No, he sucks He's a piece of shit and he's bad for just tell it right to the camera. There you go bad for culture He's bad for kids. We should call that out and like The dude sucks, but he's very he's technically very good at specific things and I think in YouTube I think it's kind of maybe dying, but there was a period where like Everyone was like, you know who the best is mr. Beast and you can't argue with the numbers. Yeah, I think that like more and more that sort of like proven to be damaging across culture and I'm hoping that we're moving more towards like a time when When you and I were growing up where it's like you should call out shitty stuff And it stuff is like bad we should say it and I don't want to encourage people as much as we used to yeah I agree. I mean, I think that you know, you hear this in the car world where people are like, you know, what's the What's that saying? Like respect all bills? It's like I Respect that you love your own car. Yeah, like that's cool But like, you know, some kids are ugly like you just got to call it what it is sometimes So and I'm not here to like shit on other people stuff, but like not everything's great either So I think the same thing comes to content and I'm not here to say bring bullying back Because I also think that a lot of the all of the people who make that statement is like bring bullying back It's like motherfucker. You're the one I'd be bullying like you're the one who I think needs to shut the fuck Up you're the one who I think doesn't need a voice You're dumb like you've never read a book quit telling people what to do From two white guys with beards on a podcast. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, but the thing dude It's like I I won't apologize for it because I work hard and like I work with talented people And we study and we and you do too like you guys know what you're doing what I'm Offended by currently is like there's just so many people Everyone has a voice now and I think that like Oh, there's just too much fucking noise and I and I think that like I don't know get good at something like you got to deserve it. I think and I think you deserve you you earn it by Learning how to do it. So I'm over fake it till you make it and now I'm on learn it till you earn it Okay, I'm into that one. I like that You know, I think you and I both also came from a world where we were already on a media path before Yeah, the internet became like before kids were like, I want to grow up and become a youtuber Like you and I were already doing media and I used to always say this like I may Not always work in automotive, but like I'll always work in media because I just really enjoy media like media for me is the Is the medium and it's like I just enjoy telling stories whether it's written whether it's podcasts whether it's video Hopefully eventually more feature films But for a lot of other people It's just like a route to success. Yeah, and it's like, hey, I want to go do the things I love And get paid to go do them which I think was like a massive appeal from vlogging Yeah, and everybody was like, I'm gonna just go make videos about the stuff that I do and like that's gonna make me really successful And it really oversaturated the space and not everyone's really good at telling a story Like I think that is the main thing that separates it And then other people just do the like hey, I'm just gonna do a really really hot take because it's That's the thing that it's rage bait. Dude if you want to go on vacation and like people want to watch you do it Get the fucking bag, but I I don't like takes This story time interruption brought to you by our good friends at fcp euro. So I have an affliction I like really unreliable European cars it almost seems the more unreliable it is The more I lost after it. So of course the car i'm talking about right now is my 2002 d2 Se this is probably one of the most unreliable cars outies ever built, but it is so magnificent During its fleeting moments of reliability. Luckily a lot of the things you need for this car. I can get fcp euro Let me tell you a little story. It's been running great. It's been just fantastic Aside from all the lights on the dash, but it's been great Then I opened the door and there was this smell smelled Like a gym bag and it shouldn't smell like a gym bag that car actually smells pretty good real leather But uh, it smelled horrible and I realized all that rain we got It definitely flooded and when I say flooded it not the normal kind of flooding This is like water coming out of the air vents level flooding and that also means water going into the fuse panel Which meant that a few relays might have shorted as well as a bunch of other things that got corroded hit up fcp euro Had them out to me in a day. This is what's great about them. They enable Really bad decisions with european cars. I mean they are like class one enabler because if I couldn't get those parts as quickly as I do I don't think any of my cars would run. Maybe some of the old fords. Anyway fcp euro Thank you very much. And if you have similar habits, maybe you too should try uh, fcp euro dot com I don't like takes. I don't like hot takes, but you're also a take guy though. I'm not really a take guy Again, I the other day. Didn't you say 9 11s are like dunks or something like that 9 11s are like dunks, dude Yeah, I I think overall Hot take culture is like melting our brains because there's like no nuance and there's no real conversation I'll have a conversation. You know subway takes. Yeah. Yeah, the most recently one of the most recent guests He had on said the that hot takes are ruining culture. Oh, I know I was like that's 100 and he was like, yeah, I agree. Yeah 100 100% I don't want to shit on I mean I support people and I just think like You know, it's It's rough out there in the world man. So I'm thinking a lot about what's wrong. Yeah, I also think like I'm I'm one of those people who have To thank youtube for so much. It's done for me in my life But I'm also a little angry at what it's doing now for like the creative curve Like it feels like youtube really sort of flattens that like it forces everybody to make similar content because it what's work it works well where It when I first Discovered youtube it was this like non gate kept place that you could put anything up on you could make a You know eight minute video of you know driving a car through an abandoned airfield and it could work you could make a video about how to pronunciate words and Where almost no clothes and it worked like there was all these like you could make this video about like how to build You know a log cabin and it worked right still crush. They do crush Yeah, I I don't want to get into that but that's like a whole great space. You ever see the one where like the guy like digs out We'll talk about that later. There's so many good asmr off grid builds. So good. I just like The best and they crush They get like eight million views even if if I see a thumbnail of like a rusty revolver found at the bottom of a lake And then like right next to is the before and after like perfect finish I'm like I'm gonna watch this like I don't even like guns But I'm gonna sit here and watch this for you know for two and a half hours as this guy painstakingly Restores this and like pops all the rivets out. It's a forward four day lean to winter camp Best yeah, but anyway back to it like I just think that That it's sort of created a model where all the content like feels the same. Is that something that you feel? I do but I think that It's up to us to change that and I feel like so many of my peers Are like, well, I don't know what to do like youtube and like the algorithm and then just want us to make like Crap and I think I told I was on calling in Samir recently and I said this where I think with youtube we've self inflicted All of the worst parts about the Hollywood studio system Where we can make whatever we want, but we're only willing to make hits Right and so like we're only willing to like Nobody's telling us what to do like we're independent artists for the most part, especially now That that I think private equity experiment failed in youtube, but like I think there is like they're gonna be Especially after you know You guys went through what you went through we went through what we went through and just like overall just like It's not really a scalable business in the way that people thought it would it would be Like you can't scale a band no, you know, and so I think that I think that there could and will be this like middle-class YouTube creator space That doesn't Play by those rules. I think like it got grotesque for a while You know, and I think mr. Beast and guys like that aren't responsible for it. We're like all of a sudden you're introducing Like the dude spending millions of dollars on a video Like he's spending more money on a 20 minute video than people spend on feature films, right and he's getting numbers that For whatever like there's no categories in youtube So like even though like most of the audience is four to seven years old We're still held to sort of like the same standard and it's like Well, if this guy like locked a guy in a room and he got 150 million views like what are you guys doing and I think that like YouTube is this amazing place where like we can Make awesome stuff and we can self publish it and we can self fund it and I think the Main thing that's standing in our way is us and like our Just like agreement to make sloppy shit, you know, and I want to encourage people to like I don't know. I think like where we did it last year where we took some risks and like Kind of led with like I want to make this video And this year we're planning to do it more like We just had our last meeting of the year and I was like, all right next year. I want to continue to dare people to not watch our videos. Yeah, I'm totally into that I I you guys did the car heart video. I think was like the second video or something You did and I remember thinking like that was really smart because immediately you have told people This isn't just a car channel Yeah, and we're gonna I'm gonna do whatever I want to do and just create this like different space than what I think you guys Had very much locked yourself into his donut and I think for Hoonigan we dealt with this a lot Which was like early on we were just Like burnouts and drifting and some rally stuff and then it's like how do you keep expanding the brand? And at a certain point I actually felt like we were expanding it maybe too far Like it was doing too much But it was part of that grow grow grow grow thing and like how do you keep speaking to a bigger and bigger audience? But on the flip side of things like with what i'm doing Like i'm uploading two hour long podcast to youtube. That is exactly what they don't want right like it's not the watch time They want it doesn't check all the boxes, but like I don't really care like I built my business model on it not being Successful by being the most amount of views because I think if you build the model around trying to make money on youtube Then you are imprisoned by the algorithm in the way that all works But if you sit there and say hey, I'm gonna make this thing and it's either gonna make money elsewhere for me Or I've got partners that sort of understand what i'm trying to do And i'm not sitting there chasing a particular metric and like or you you lower the bar of what you want to go and do And then keep it there um It allows you to take more experiments and just like kind of go have fun stuff versus getting stuck in that We always make this because this works like this versus that became that show. It was super successful It was easy to make it was low budget It was the winning show for us on youtube and averaged a million views an episode like and we could record eight of them in a day Yeah, like think of how nice that is right for production side really good Yeah, the the business people love to hear that right but Arguably the views Said that that was one of the most successful one of it was the most successful show we did on hoonigan The fan base said the opposite right like the audience that was watching it was bummed by it because they missed The banter between people but that show had a ceiling of how good it was of how big it was gonna get So we had to do something else because we were chasing this other goal And I think it goes back to your ambition thing before which is like setting lower ambitions I think is actually really valuable um, I've You know mark arsenal. Oh, yeah, so mark like Um, he's one of the reasons I quit don't it. Oh really? Yeah. Why? He was just like a guy who was successful. Yeah In places that I wanted to be or just like I respected what he's done um And like yeah, I think you were too like there were a few guys who were just like, yeah, fuck it man get out of there So like without me prodding like I was kind of talking to him because we got the zoomies thing and I was yeah Yeah, I felt kind of burnt by that and he was like, oh, yeah, you should just leave and start your own thing He's like, I'll start a company with you. Yeah, mark's got like 100 companies. Yeah. Yeah. I was like, all right So it's interesting. So I had a similar conversation with mark and it was over zoomie. So real quick rewind You know fat lace illus really kind of one of the first like Universal automotive brands right like something that wasn't specifically drifting or specifically one kind of racing or you know specifically like jdm like I felt like they were somewhat broad and what they were doing and so when hoonigan came around they had already been around for like a year or two and I You know, I met him through building my 9 11, right? It's because that was like the whole rwb thing in the u.s. So when it first started And so he was great with me early on like considering that like you could think of us as competitors Like he would just what if I had a question whether it was Types of shirts to use or how different rollouts have worked or so on um, you know, I would go to him and he was great. It was I was really I really enjoyed his sort of professional friendship through that period and then Hoonigan started to like really hockey stick and like we ended up in zoomies before them did all the stuff so and so on And you know from my side because I'm a big competitive person. I sat there going. Oh, yeah, we're winning Yeah, like we're winning because like we're crushing them All right, so he called me one night and he said hey, like, you know, I'm thinking about going to zoomies You know, they've approached me and so on because Hoonigan was the first automotive brand in in zoomies Yeah, we broke through that which was not an easy you guys did crazy and we did crazy numbers We did all doors. We did a 40 door test and then um within 40 days We were all doors. Yeah, um, we were the fastest growing brand to ever go to zoomies at that point We the only other brand that went faster than us was little wanes brand But there was like a stipulation behind it because they had like a major like spend to support it and it was like a limited time So they've exploded and it was a good it's one of the reasons we did content so like I thank it for that but I think I wish we could have slow played it because it put so much focus on us just dealing with that Like it was an expansion we weren't ready for it It was I don't like 10 employees and all of a sudden we're in 600 stores in the malls But anyway to go to get back to the mark story mark was Going there and we were talking and we're talking about something and he just said to me He's like, I don't know man. I just He's like, I don't know. I just don't know like if I really want like illus to like grow that big You know, like I kind of enjoy it at the size it's at now and when he said that to me. He's like, I just it's just easy It's like he's gonna maintain and I didn't see it as real like I thought he was lying to me being like Oh, yeah, of course. That's what you say to the guy who built the more the barren that you know shadowed their brand And then all of a sudden like I woke up one day and I was like mark was right Mark was right because like I don't enjoy this anymore. Right. Right. Like I stopped enjoying this. This now feels like a job and The brand is also abandoning some of its early fan base to continue to grow and do all this stuff and it was It was this tough world because I did enjoy the success and like that definitely fueled me was the success of making something that did well But I could look back at it now and go Yeah, mark was right like keeping something to a certain size like for me 15 people was the greatest size Hoonigan was not that I didn't enjoy the you know, 80 or so people who moved through the doors like I loved working with almost all of them, but There was certainly this like sweet spot Around 14 to 15 and the way I say it is like if you can't Fit your entire crew into like too many vans to go get lunch Like it's it's the wrong size crew Like if you still can't get a table to feed your whole your whole gang like at you know Sizzler because who knew you used to run a sizzler. It was a good time Like you you just don't like you've gotten too big right in the minute We all started taking lunch separately Was like when the business changed and like that's a just a nice size company that I enjoy It'll never be as successful as something that's bigger, but like man, that's like a really good size But it's it's like what is success. Yeah, exactly. You know, I'm sure mark still likes illest Well, he sold it. But yeah, I think No, and I think I think he did let it get a little too big actually if you were to ask him I mean he'd be a good person to talk to but he's uh, no, it's funny though Both of us sort of had that similar moment with mark I wonder if that was like a cultural like time thing just like scaling Yeah, like if that was like a 2010s tech Well, he also though came from nike was working at a big company knew that I never really worked at a big company I had worked at like a medium-sized publishing company that ran Like this chaotic, you know Operation because it was mostly hip hop and music like, you know magazine So it wasn't particularly an organized business and then I went to go work for Hoonigan So I never really had that experience of what wheel pros was which like They were just a big business and had like a lot of moving parts and a lot of zoom meetings Not just what actually teams meetings, which is the worst. Yeah, you Microsoft. Yeah hate it so much. I mean, do you think that like Like for me scaling donut to that big like even selling Donut was like To me it was like validating, you know, and I think that there's Like now that I've done that I don't It's not that like I didn't like it, but like it's not the reason Like now I don't have to do that like I've done that, you know, and you've done it I think, you know even more with Hoonigan where it's like, oh cool. I I that with that project the goal was to make it as big as possible. Yeah, yeah, and Like under these metrics and I did that. Yeah, and that was cool and so I think it's like It's like smaller ambitions, but also like different ambitions because I think Like with the current project before we knew what we were going to do all we knew is Jesse and I were going to do something together and he was like, okay, so We need to be okay with the idea that it's going to be way smaller from the outside But it's going to feel way bigger on the inside like from the inside. It's going to be bigger for us I was like, that's cool. And so I think that like There are more Like the ambitions are still there. They're just like different. Yeah, I think like a consistency of like The artistry of all the videos. I think the voice is more consistent. I think trying to do Again, like daring people not to watch our videos. I think that's in a lot of ways harder in a lot of ways harder um and so I think like There's there more nuanced ambitions rather than just like get as nuances everything Like I live if you were to ask me what motivates me It's nuance like I love the little nuance stuff. It's like what's what makes everything I can tell with tref punks That shit was like so well run That was amazing. Do we want to jump subjects now because by the way, yeah Like this is to me this podcast is just starting because I was literally going to say Like we don't really know each other that well. Yeah. Yeah, but like here's three topics We should talk about and then we just spun out on kind of the unique donut thing the free I need to I want to stop doing that Because people keep having me on podcasts and like asking me questions about youtube and I'm like I should like charge Yeah, it's an interesting space And I'm happy to have that combo with you though because I feel like we both were I think you guys did the youtube thing better than we did. Um, I think you guys did the brand thing better than yeah Yeah, that was like where our focus was I was unwilling to do things for the algorithm Where like I know that you guys were very I'll go led because I knew matt and I knew like how his brain worked Where like I was only going to do something if I wanted to make it and I would do thumbnails that were more Like cooler looking even though they didn't work as well Like all those things and it's funny now because now you get to ab test your thumbnails I'm like, I don't even like how that one looks. Yeah, I'll still sometimes choose the one that I just Like more even though it's going to get me less views. Yeah, we'll keep the big one for like four days And then we'll swap it back to the one that looks cool on the whole yeah, yeah, just because it looks better. So um, yeah, so um So this is an interesting one because like you and I both started in volkswagens I actually think there's an incredible amount of people who started in volkswagens or VW vortex who now work in the industry? Yeah more so than a lot of other like sort of marks And I don't really fully understand why that is but there's a lot of us. I think it's because in order to Uh like shine on VW vortex. It was almost more important to be funny Yeah, and it was to have a cool car. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, you had to be like really good at crafting a thread Uh, like it was its own little media. I mean in a way forums, especially those kind of forums were like their own medium And you had like all these different kind of people like crafting the right post Like running the right build thread Or just being a really funny commenter like if you were a car lounge guy and you were just in it If you didn't have like a cool car, you could be funny and you could be a vortex all-star. Yeah, there's this guy Chapel, do you know chapel? Do you know chapel? Didn't he have like a purple? I don't even I don't even know a car He had but he was like the hero of the car lounge and it's funny because he's now on my patreon He basically runs is like the moderator there because he's just so good at like running community stuff Which I think is like is funny, but no vortex was great for that. When did you get into volkswagen's one was like your Like early 2000s. I think I got my first Volkswagen like 2002. Okay. What was it? 2001 maybe uh a 97 Windsor blue gti vr6. Oh, yeah. Yeah nice. Yeah, mine was My first one was in 97 95 Golf I wanted a mark one Gti really bad But my parents didn't want me to have a car that old and I had raised enough money to buy it I was like, you know for like working in a snowboard shop and like doing all this different stuff And my dad and my mom said how about this? We'll we'll match you dollar to dollar if you buy a newer car and it's to this day the newest car I've ever owned Because it was only 1995. So it was only two years old. Yeah. It was only two years old at the time So it's like the newest car I've ever owned like I've never owned my gti was too I've never owned anything that close to the on sale date at the dealership. Yeah, I guess back then it was five years old Yeah It's great. My newest. Yeah, my newest car now is over 20 years old The newest car I own and right now is my 2004 van in my 2002 s8. I was 2004 gwagen Everything I have is two decades old. Yeah, which is totally normal to me and not to my wife or any of my friends Yeah, well my non-car friends. So Um, yeah, no, no, man It's like but it's it's interesting because like you came to trefpunks and for those listening My friend Jason whip on I we did this event called trefpunks. I'll let you explain trefpunks actually instead of me explaining I'd love to hear you explain. Here's how I what I tell people When they're like, well when they were like, so what are you doing this weekend? I'm like, okay so it used to be I prefaced it by like being like, all right. This is like the nerdiest thing 100 and I was like, all right So there used to be this Volkswagen website called vw vortex and now a bunch of us are in our 40s And we can afford to buy the cars that we used to have or want and so these guys made a camping trip and a bunch of guys either bought new old cars before the year 2000 or got their old cars that were built before the year 2000 running and we're all driving up the coast of california ish and We rented a summer camp. That's pretty much it. Yeah. We were calling it a summer camp for middle-aged men Yeah, pretty much it with cars. It was so good. It was so fun. I'm happy you enjoyed. Yeah, it was Usually when you're the person hosting an event you don't enjoy it because like you're just so busy with all the logistics of it And making sure everything's going well, but like I thoroughly enjoyed it and like so to whipple like it was just chill Like it was really good. It was like good food. It was fun. Yeah, it was run really really well very mature Like everything was it's like very tight like you could tell that both of you have like built massive companies But then it was like also super fun and it was cool being around um Because like you can go hang out with like drift guys anytime you want or like even like bmw guys like almost anytime you want but It's very rare at least for me to be around a bunch of Full twigging guys who like know all the front lips and side skirts that I specifically know And so that was like a real treat or like people who remember cars that I remember Like then like actually I know where that car is or like I built that car It's like no way There was actually this peak moment where we had coffee the next morning after the first night And less brought out a box of old performance magazines and everybody just sat there Going through and like reminiscing and I felt like man This is like such that high school reunion moment where like people pull out the year book and like look at you Like back then because like a bunch of guys there had cars that were in the magazines Or were inspired by them or stuff like that. So like yeah, it was a lot of fun We're definitely gonna do another one this year. We also did it invite only not to be exclusive There wasn't really the goal although if you ask whipple, he'll probably say that because that's just kind of person He is but it was more like Just to control it and I hate to use the word cure eight because I feel like that words you use so much But we wanted it to be small and like matter and this actually goes to like back to the media thing Do you know foster hunting tin? So I've said this multiple times on the pot So if you need to get up and take a leak and you're a normal listener, this would be a good time I Was having like a really hard time at Hoonigan. I wanted to leave This is right before ken passed away and I decided that I was going to go pick up the Saudi 4000 that I had bought in in Vancouver and drive it down by myself and just have like for me The only way I can really sort of like meditate and have a good think is driving Like long distances by myself like I'll drive for four hours and realize I like never turn the radio on Right, so I pick up this car that barely runs and like fixing it the whole way home And I go and I stop at foster's house and foster has these like really cool tree houses and like all this stuff He has a cool like scape. Um He has like a little pool set up on his property like it's just like really rad space and he's the guy Uh, who started the van life hashtag like he's the one noted for it And we were just chatting and like, you know, he's had these ups and downs in his own sort of career Both in front of camera behind and he just said the simple thing to me And I you know, I'm sure other people have said this but he's the one who said it to me So I'm gonna give him the quote. He said, do you want to mean? A lot to a little right? I mean a little to a lot or a lot to a little and at Hoonigan We definitely got to a point where we meant a little to a lot, right? Tons of trucks with big Hoonigan stickers on them But like they didn't really fully like understand the vibe or the brand or whatever It just became this massive thing. We were the number one sticker sold at zoomies I think for the entire time Hoonigan was there So you guys got to the point where Like it's kind of like monster energy where or no fear when we were younger. Yeah, like having a Hoonigan sticker Didn't necessarily mean you knew what Hoonigan was. It just meant you were a kind of guy. Yeah, exactly and it became that thing and Um, and then I realized like man, I really really want to mean a lot to a little like that is like the space that I really enjoy being And that's why like I went to go do podcasts because like not as many people listen to them um, I mean unless you're Joe Rogan, but like most people don't listen to them on that level and But the people who do absorb it and listen for like two hours like I listened to the podcast I listen to like I feel like an understanding for those people in a way that like I don't normally I actually just started listening to smart lists just like last week And it's funny because I've always liked Jason Bateman and like But now it's like it's almost weird like I feel like I know him better because you like you you can't act for that long On a podcast you kind of just like let out who you are a little more. It's kind of like an enjoyable space Um, yeah, I don't know. It's just one of those things. I think for me the same thing with tref punks It was like I wanted this to be really good for 30 people Yeah, and it was and like we didn't make money on it. We just wanted to go do it Right like it was one of those things of like, hey, let's just go and make this cool thing that we would really enjoy being at And it's funny because it's more of what I want to do now Like I want to make books even if only a hundred people buy it We're like there was so much stuff We couldn't do it Hoonigan because it wasn't financially viable my this podcast is a perfect example I was I mean I ran the company But still every time I wanted to do a podcast everyone would be like it's just too much work for like not the same return Totally jesse gets frustrated with me because I keep Pitching ideas and I preface them. Like, okay, so this isn't an idea that's gonna make us any money And he's like well someday you're gonna have to come up with some that will But I think we got a couple years before we actually have to yeah, but like I don't know like but you guys are doing well Like you guys are good. Yeah, you're doing you're doing very well You got you have to get out of your brain that you're like You're not supposed to be doing donut numbers, but you're still doing way bigger numbers than most people That's doing well and you're doing the stuff you want to do Which is like the best part of what you're doing the fact that you can Go and do a what was it like a 1920s camping trip or something like that? Yeah And you could go do that and then you can also go do like a rant about like where Volkswagen sits today And you have an audience that will watch both You have transcended A thing I think a lot of people don't transcend on youtube, which is it's not about the subject matter anymore It's about you guys like they're buying into The thing this matters because we like this and and that's the stuff we want to tell you and like that's where my World started I started in at mass appeal magazine Mass appeal magazine before vice became vice mass appeal was the mag in new york And the magazine was literally just things we thought were cool. Yeah, right? That's what it was. It was just things we thought were cool We had literally had a section in it called hey, you're cool Yeah, where we would just interview people we thought were cool Yeah, and you might not have any idea who they were but by us saying hey We think this person's cool means that you should stop and read Right and this was before like sneaker culture exploded to the level it was and you know We were talking doing everything from sneakers to like fashion That's interesting because I see a lot of stuff you're doing now and I'm like man This feels like a video version a little bit. He did 100% of a magazine. Yeah, like it's You know, we obviously Not struggled but like starting anything you wanted to find it especially if you're trying to like Make money from people like sponsors and stuff. They want to know what it is And I think like eventually what we landed on is speed is a men's style magazine And cars are a part of men's style. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So like it went from being like well Well, originally it was just men. It was going to be doughnut for menswear Oh, really? Yeah, that was like the initial idea and I was going to do like up to speed on like supreme and stews and stuff like that and then Like a few weeks into it. I was like, you know what I really do Miss cars You and I have had the same journey because I left hoonigan did non-cars. Yeah. Yeah went and did animation with super plastic And for the first six months, I was like, I love not doing cars. Yeah, this is fantastic I mean almost 2,000 car videos. It's it's I can't even count how many we made at this point Yeah, we did 380 of daily transmission alone and we stopped making that in 2018. Yeah, so it's like it's just it's incredible The amount of content that people say like do what you love for a living and you'll never work a day in your life It's like no dude if you do what you love for a living find something else to love or else You'll just want to kill you and I are too similar because I've said that a thousand times My dad used to say it my both my parents are scientists and my dad you said to me at some point You know do what you love and you know, you know, you'll never work a day in your life And it's fucking bullshit if you do what you love you will work every week minute of your life last night I had this idea. I don't want to say it out loud yet, but I had this idea I was so excited about it that I stayed up for like another two hours writing in my notebook And it's like it's cool because that's exciting But that was like two hours that I wasn't sleeping in bed with my wife, you know because because I was so You know caught up on this like idea of more work of creating more work for myself. So yeah Um, all right, let's get back to Volkswagen's. Why do you think Volkswagen's right now? at least in my opinion are having a bit of like a Like a reboot because I mean hagrity just announced like the mark 3 Golf is you know, one of the cars to get this year. Um, obviously we've seen a couple like mark 1 rabbits You know hit bring a trailer at some good numbers I feel like a lot of my friends who I grew up with Are getting back into them like do you think it's like an age thing? Or do you think it's Do you think it's like a response to something? I don't know. I have my own thoughts, but let me hear yours first I think it's a I think some of it's an age thing. I think You know, I think trends are just like cyclical, you know stuff is popular then it's not and then it is again Kind of like skips a generation or something um I think that like it's probably influenced by the market where once at least recently like once something is universally agreed on to be like a cool thing It like it becomes eventually like inaccessible and so therefore becomes less cool like I bought the The golf was that or the gti was actually my second car. My first car was an s13 240 sx that I bought for $3,000 In and it had like 60,000 miles. So you were early on that because that was before those were cool Like my my good friend trevor's sister had an s14 That we would take to 7 11 to get stuff while we were working on his folks back Like never did I think of that car as cool. It was just the car that we would drive back and forth to 7 11 Yeah, I got my first 240 apparently the same year that ryan turk got his Uh, I'm really I'm really to every trend. Yeah, you really just let me know that you're just a taste maker I'd really pay attention to things and I care about it but So like yeah, those cars used to be so cheap and my gti cost like three times the amount of my s13 and I think that Like a $3,000 s13 is like really cool A $20,000 s13 like is way different. You know what I mean? And I saw someone I saw a tick tock of someone saying that like Our culture feels stagnant because there's no cheap rent And you need to be able to you need to have cheap rent so that weirdos aren't homeless Um, because now in order to just have a place to live You can't just be a weirdo. You have to go work a normie job And then like you're not just like creating culture and I saw something similar Someone was like Broadway is dying because they moved it to Times Square now. They're making stuff for people in Ohio where like uh Plays and theater used to be a thing that locals went to because locals and students could afford to go to the theater and they are Now they're spending so much money to produce the shows that they have to charge so much for tickets that nobody local Like young and like actually cool can afford to go do it and I think that And one thing I'm kind of dealing with is like cool is decided by broke weirdos totally and so Things that are cool that influence culture are the things that are accessible to broke weirdos and so I think that Volkswagen's are cool. They're inherently cool. You know um Amazing history they look aesthetically. They're very neat And I think that like it's just at the point where like One guys like us remember them and we're like, oh, yeah, dude. Maybe I'll get one. But then also I can tell a kid that's a broke weirdo Like you can afford a mark 3 golf. Like you can buy a $3,000 golf and it's like a good car. Make it pretty cool Make it pretty cool. Yeah, there's a recipe book out there. I thought it would be vortex. Go check out the mark 3 forum Go blow off the dust Boot up the 56k Yeah, I you know, I grew up in New York City and I remember when you could live in You know towns in Brooklyn and close to the water in Queens where it was 500 bucks for rent, right? And like that was normal and like that's all been pushed out and that was definitely the Broke weirdo error error of like, oh, yeah, this is just a bunch of people who've all moved here and like want to go Make something cool. That definitely doesn't exist anymore. At least not in major cities I feel like it's moved to like other places and people are finding that in other small towns and stuff and I I know you and Vinny have a Detroit conversation I don't know if that's public but we can snip it. We can snip it We actually went back during the winter and I think we're less Less enthused but I'm still I'm still into it. No, I like I get that like for me I always like building the car. That's not cool. And it's funny because I'll bring back up the 9 11 thing You said the other day like obviously we're sitting right next to a 9 11. Yeah, but you had it when it was cool Actually, no, but I actually bought it when it wasn't cool Like I want this for so long and it's funny because Vinny jokes that I only like things that other people don't like And then the minute people start liking them, I don't like them Right that I'll bitch and moan and complain like not a lot Not enough people like old outies and because of that there's a lot of parts and it's hard to find them and so on and so on But then the minute that they become trendy. I'm like, I'm done. Yeah. Yeah, totally It's like that because you're you're a taste maker I I mean I'd love to hear that but I think there's also just something of like I don't know if it's like just the striving to do it differently Like even as a kid something as simple as jinkos were really big all my friends had jinkos Literally and figuratively And I would wear these other pants because I just didn't want to wear jinkos Not because like and they were like the same price. So it wasn't like I bought the cheaper ones or the knockoffs It's just that like everybody had jinkos and like there was something wired in me That was like I don't want the same thing everyone else has I think like my uncle had a lot to do with that when I was a kid like I would I listen I like this one song because everyone else In school liked it. He was like that song's trash. Yeah, that's a bad song. Like why do you like it? It's like, oh, everyone else likes it. He's like, yeah And then like he introduced me to like Led Zeppelin He was like, this is good music which it was but like it definitely made me You know, it's one of those things of like I was very and it really stood out of like I purposely wanted to do to be different. Yeah to do something a little bit different Which is almost impossible to do today. I think there's so much like there's so many people doing so many things That the nuance is broader and easier to find it doesn't feel that different because to me it's I listened to like I watched your one episode and I'll admit this and I'm sure the same for you It was like I've barely watched any doughnut stuff You probably barely watched any hoonigan stuff because like you're so busy They're like you don't really watch other youtuber stuff, right? But I watched your Volkswagen one because everybody was talking about it like in my community when you did it for speed and I was watching I think one thing that was really interesting A take that you had on it was I actually never thought Volkswagen's were cool When I was younger because Honda seemed so cool to me, right? Like you had super street sport compact car like Honda tuner Like, you know, all of these magazines that were completely focused at The Honda industry and like we had to buy our magazines at Barnes and Noble for $10 because they imported from Europe Like it didn't feel like the culture was here I felt like I was part of a culture that existed overseas And because of that it felt cool to me because when I went to you know, like Francis Lewis Boulevard in Queens I was like one of few Volkswagen's and there was hundreds of civics But it feels like your vision of it is a little different. Maybe that's because you came in a little bit later Yeah, my vision of it was I lived in Louisville, Kentucky and To me the exotic land where like all the Voltawagons were were like was like Long Island It was like Pennsylvania and New Hampshire and all these like East Coast guys had these like Sick builds and like oh dude if I lived there like they all probably drive around with each other all the weekend They're like all these like shows that you guys all like went to And I was like some kid from the south that just like wasn't a part of it and like I don't know like it's like a chicken or the egg thing But all the music I listened to was from Long Island in New Jersey So you big you big emo fan. Yeah. Well like post hardcore. Okay. Yeah, cool. What you want? Yeah, yeah like Bayside and thrice And so like and you know Voltawagons are the reason I dressed the way that I dressed And like the reason I started getting tattoos and you know, it was just like I think I've always been attracted to Sort of like a consistent aesthetic Right, like everything should kind of fit together and like contribute to like this one vision and to me I knew a bunch of Honda kids And at that point again, they were like in Kentucky. So they're all like on house arrest And Like my friend wasn't where my head was going but no like my friend of reymer like Literally got arrested like I let him drive my gti and he like just ripped down Shelbyville road And uh got pulled over and had like a warrant and got arrested And like he was driving my car because like I had been drinking and like I Yeah, like the cops arrested him and just like left me with my car And I was like, like how do I get home? Yeah, I'm just gonna like chill here Uh, and then I guess I like called my dad or something, but like that was Honda's to me and so like yeah having a Volkswagen. I was like Classier, you know, like I bought my magazines At Barnes and Noble bookstore. Yeah, you got to go to a bookstore. They had British pounds on them. Yeah, uh, they're this big and uh Yeah, like the the scene didn't exist where I lived. It was like Close to New York It was like a little bit more cosmopolitan It's funny for you to say that because I ran a Volkswagen car club in New York City Long Island area called auto creek and like we did an event called full moon full throttle where every single month 150 of us got together. Yeah, and thrashed back roads And I'm so happy no one ever died because I look back at it now as I'm older and I'm like man That was so dangerous, but it was a lot of fun back then So it was that community and it's interesting because I never thought about it this way, but here's the take The Volkswagen scene was as close to Skateboarding as car culture got before drifting Oh, yeah Because I think that you really like created this like definition or maybe I think we had that like back in the day in Hot rotting right like the greaser was like a look where like you could look at someone and be like That guy's probably into Volkswagen's because there was you're right like there was definitely a way everybody looked music Everyone listened to I'm a bit older than you guys But I listened to emo because I knew so many people in the Volkswagen community So it was just like part of that culture like I grew up more on Like, you know Hardcore like New York hardcore era and like punk rock and stuff like that and obviously 90s hip hop But like emo was this thing that I found because like guys like mark cheetahman was listening to taking back sunday And his slammed, you know mark through golf right? I mean, what's more? subversive or like rebellious than doing something that other people don't understand And so like muscle cars you like get it. It's like they're at least back then it's like they're fast Yeah, that's a cool car. It's fast and then even Honda's and stuff like that. It was like well They're faster or than a lot of even the muscle cars and they're cheaper and you know, there's all these like things you can do Voltswagens didn't make any sense. Like we were like, so why do you like it? It's like because I can barely even fucking drive it It's so low. I smacked the oil pan on the ground And I rubbed through my tires with my fenders. Is it fast? No There's only like four of them that are fast and those guys are barely even cool It's actually true because a bunch of our guys we had fast cars We had seen that performance. We had like the first nine second Jetta and all these things The guys the more the faster your car was the less cool. Yeah, totally mark. She even had like a two-liter slammed, you know jenster with the 15 inch I see famous car and there's a picture about this big in pvw that I Yeah, go over with like a magnifying glass to be like, oh, look at those. I almost got 15 inch uh te are Th th is yeah, I almost got 15 inch th line. Do you want to know a funny story about that? And I If mark if you're listening, I hope I don't butcher this but mark ordered those wheels. I think from tuning super horn, right and um, they show up And he puts them on the car and they don't fit. Yeah, so his mom is like furious at them because he's young He's like 19 or 20 his mom's like, I can't believe you did this like, you know, these wheels don't fit Like he spends so much money on them So she brings them down to like the local body shop and he basically goes to the body shop and says like, hey Can you make these fit and somehow some random guy at a body shop created a trend that Pulling fenders and like kind of the way that they did it that modified The way volksvagn's looked for like the next, you know Five ten years in the US right like that aggressively pull And look there were cars in europe that had done similar stuff But that car set the stage. It was a two-liter. It was really slow. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, but it was so I mean, it had to be a two-liter because if it was a vr Oil pan would hit the ground This is that weird volkswagen nerd stuff. You're like, oh, I could have more power, but then I couldn't go as well I couldn't go as well. Yeah, or like you'd be like, I could go to five lug With bigger brakes, but then it pushes the wheels out so I can't run as much as you got plus suspension And while that's great for handling it's not as cool for looks. I think I'm gonna put a mark two rear beam on the silver car Is the mark two beam narrow? Yeah. Yeah. Really? Yeah. Oh, and even though I have I have the I've this set of uh schmitt race lights. Yeah. Yeah. That was on Joey that white jetta. Oh, yeah. Yeah Um, and so like they're so wide that I have to like narrow the rear track I love I just like the exact opposite of what everyone else does with cars Like I want it wider wide body. You're like, no, I'm gonna narrow this so I can run a bigger Lippier wheel. Yeah. So well, I put 16 by 9s on it I know we first put it together and dude, I am I have different tastes than I used to like I think the car looks it's really low now on 17s, but like My cortisol level was through the roof Bro, I don't know how you drove your car so hammered on trefpunks because your car was slammed Your car is slammed. Thank you. You don't you have no idea how much it meant to me to show up after years of like because again, I lived in Louisville, Kentucky away from like Where all of these guys from bw vortex seemed to like hang out all the time And I think I'm like younger than most of you guys So like I like looked up to this group of people and like they were so formative and I think like the way I Moved to LA and did comedy like it was a big part of like what made me different than everybody And to pull up to a parking lot full of those guys and for them to be like Hey, your car's pretty low, huh? Are you sitting here thinking oh my goodness, I've made it to an hour and a half and I could definitely use Another 45 minutes of this well, guess what there is another 45 minutes of me and James talking After the two and a half hours of this pod on my patreon another reason to join By the way is being one of those guys on the other side We all felt really old because I was like, I don't think I could drive a car that low and more Like it was the realization of like me looking at my car going. Yeah, it's like pretty low Like the tires and the fender and then you showed up just Hammered hammered. Yeah, which by the way, I feel like it's a term only folks like you guys appreciate You know your car is hammered. You're like, what does that mean? It means it's so fucking low the floor that it basically doesn't drive that it gets stuck on speed bumps Like if you have a high side on a speed bump and had to have everyone get out of the car to get through a speed bump Dude, I had on tref punks I had because the driveway to our campsite was You'd learn the obstacles. You learn the roads around you And so yeah, I did kick someone out. I mean, I think owning a low Volkswagen It's like you were like you wanted to like get into rock crawling But like you just wanted to do it like on a regular street Yeah, like you need like someone to get out and navigate for you. You've got like go half up on a curve Like, you know, it's like you're doing the same thing as rock crawlers. You're just doing it on like a standard Yeah, the two best ways to have fun going two miles an hour slammed Volkswagen or giant truck on 39 inch time. Yeah, exactly. So what are you? Are you gonna build another car for tref punks this year? Are you gonna finish? I would like to Because you have two mark threes right now, right? One's really taken apart one's the green car is basically a shell right now. Is it rusty? Is that why you take them aren't? Just start over with anyone. Yeah, thank you for the permission. I just hate to tell you like someone who grew up on the east coast And now understands how sweet sweet sweet working on a non rusty car is and who just bought a mark three Syncro that's rusty. It's like I just don't know why I'm doing it to myself again Like the chassis's dry, but I'm removing everything else and it's just such a pain in the ass But if the chassis is rusty just get something else and I like I don't have like a big warehouse to put cars anymore I only want to own So many cars and I really like there's how many is that many like what is that number? I don't want more than five. I have Three right now. I really don't want more than three. I want to sound like such an adult Yeah, I want to I want to be able to fit all my cars In my driveway. I have so many that i'm not really sure how many I have. Yeah, it's like either 24 25 or 26 But you have a farm if I had a farm it'd be a different Situation like I right now. I want to like drive all of my cars Yeah, and so like I really I haven't a mark three that I really like Maybe I can I want to paint that one. I want to do the interior. I want to shave the bay and I want to probably Do some like bodywork stuff. I really like bodywork stuff. I like doing the little things um And so like I don't know I'll either maybe like Bring that back finished or I wouldn't mind something older I was gonna ask like do you like the mark ones the mark twos like you seem like a mark three guy, but I had a westy mark two I like those On 13 inch th lines By the way, for those listening a westy mark two is not something whether west phalia pop top It is a car built in the west moreland plant in pennsylvania that's shut down in 85 or 86 And then sold all of its tooling to china, which is why china still has jettus Yeah, and so they'd had square headlights Instead of round ones, but not the long and not long rectangles. Yeah, small Small squares that car was really cool. I had three speed automatic and ultra ultra lows and 13 inch th lines um, and it was Just like great condition at like 85 000 miles and like this just like perfect tweed interior And it had exhaust how many guys do you think say? perfect Tweed is such a that's a good brand name by the way perfect tweed. It's also a great name for a fucking postpunk post hardcore, man Fuck I'd go watch perfect tweed. Yeah. Yeah Uh, and I loved that car. So I think I like a small bumper mark too. It'd be really cool. I think that's probably a sweet spot for me yeah, I'm um I need to like cut down my collection and um I'm actually thinking about doing it as a content series because it's not because I think it'll make good content Although I do like I it's a story I want to tell Yeah, but I think it's something that'll actually motivate me to do it because like right now I don't really have a reason to cut down my collection other than that it creates anxiety Like I'm at the point now where I'd rather have 10 cars that all work Then 25 cars where every one of them has a problem like even my cars that I drive a lot Have issues that I just don't deal with because it's like oh, I could deal with this but this one has a bigger issue right now Right, right like so I think like having a better collection of 10 is more important than having all of them But then at the same time like I don't know I like having them all Yeah, squeaky door gets the squeaky wheel gets the Yeah, it definitely is and it's also one of those like so like for me like my perfect Volkswagen collection Like I have my mark 3 that I'm building right now um My first my first Volkswagen or my first car was a black four-wheel golf And I then VR swapped it and if I could have synced or swapped that I would have I jumped ahead You VR swapped it in 18 hours with two you know this story because because dude I did my 07k swap in the silver car. Yeah in four 57 hours Uh Basically to go to trevpunks, which is incredible. Yeah, and I posted it in the whatsapp group And I was like damn dude, that's so fast and you go That's nothing 18 years old queens new york dead of winter All they had was All he had was a harbor freight eight piece tool set two cans of oe And a half pack of new ports did it in 12 and a half hours drove it to school the next morning True story 17 hours, but true story me and my buddy my buddy trevor did it Yeah, so yeah, I just don't have energy like that anymore now. I can't even like change my oil in 17 hours And he was just like dude fucking scato, bro That's like the equivalent though of like me telling my albundi story. Yeah, it's like I'm just trying to relive a moment Which I still live in like I wish I still was able to you know, score four touchdowns at poke or whatever it was Yeah, no, I um I have that I have my mark three and like that's a cool project. I'm just gonna make it a driver I think I'm gonna finally build my swallowtail this year for trevpunks because like that's a car that looks really good on the internet My green rabbit. Yeah, it's a car that looks really good on the internet But like he's doing an abf or you have that 1.4. I'm actually gonna build no I'm actually gonna build an eight valve for it. So whipples I originally was gonna put the abf in there and the more I drove the car The more I realized like I wanted to feel like stuff like this gives me hope for like they going back to the youtube Conversation we're having and like the algorithm and things like that. So many guys. I know Who have built the most insane cars? Are now building like eight valve rabbits or have you seen Steph Papa doc is his supra? No, but I've seen his rav4, which is fantastic. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah his rav4 he built himself like a supra It has like 360 horsepower, but it's just nice. Yeah, and I think jason is the same way like jason's built an insane like y body Jason's mark three formula v. Perfect. Whatever. Yeah, his mark three is perfect. His mark two Is probably my favorite car at trevpunks, which was basically a stock Stock is yeah, which is like, yeah. Yeah, and so I think a lot of us whether it's Older I really do think it is like a trend is like we're moving back into like these nuanced versions of cool because we were at a point and like you partook where it's like it was a big part I once I once thought it was a good idea for us to take a Honda Ridgeline and put an indie car. Yeah. Yeah, uh, and you know Now that we've made 3000 horsepower 1200 horsepower It's not that fun. No, and there's other things that you can do with cars. And so I think like seeing that that movement in the automotive world gives me hope for Just kind of like everything moving that way because everything kind of moves together in culture. Yeah, I mean Like music is moving more towards like geese is like one of the biggest bands in the world right now And just sort of like I think we're moving more towards like an analog sort of like slower more artistic Sort of like time I agree and I also think people just like Like tangible stuff more and can appreciate again to use the word nuance. That's like the pb playhouse word of the day Of like just a little stuff like for me. I'll be very honest I found an opt valve cover for an eight valve and that was enough for me to build the engine To be like this valve cover is super rare and really cool and I want to put it on something and Instead of putting a better engine with more power In the car I'm going to put this other engine in and then just build it in a really cool way and whipple actually built it for me So it's like because he really enjoys engine building. That's just like not how my brain is wired But that's what he's good at. Yeah, he's really good at like just I'm going to spend hours measuring this you know, so um, but for me, I think it's I've been enjoying that sort of Going backwards from everything has to be insane To like hey, this could just be a normal car But like really cool to me and that's all that really means. Yeah. Yeah. I also think and like this is I think something that Vinny and I try to talk about a lot um And I'm going to get into a weird conversation that I think you you live in and you understand but I don't think of myself as a role model But I I would be not self aware to realize that like I've done enough stuff that people are like I look good to see what those guys do right and I think we created this world through youtube where everyone thought they had to have a thousand horsepower car would be cool And when I was younger even in my car club like you could have like a ratty eight valve slammed on steelies Yeah, and like it just had cool presence And it was in and I think and like that's what I loved about donk culture It was like I came when I went to rides magazine, you know in order to be accepted in the world of like hip hop Car culture you had to have an escalate So your entry point $70,000. Yeah, and then you jump in $15,000 wheels on the car So it's like you like and that was the lowest level because most of what people were talking about were like Rolls Royce's and like all Bentley's all these crazy cars and then Kids in the hood were like no we're gonna build my grandma's box Chevy and make that cool And like the starting platform wasn't was like again was cool And you would go to the I would go to these spots like to go film these cars And sure some of them were dope on 26s Some of them weren't even on wheels yet, but they were still they still had a box Chevy They still belong because they were part of it And I think that there has been something that has happened in the past 10 years where everyone feels like they need This crazy thing to belong and it's like man You could have like a slammed civic or a slammed golf and like it's pretty cool, man It's it's pretty cool just to keep it on the road Yeah, yeah, just to keep it running and like do small stuff to it like I said, I think everything culturally kind of moves together and Like we both had youtube channels that sold for tens of millions of dollars during a time when like like Just money was fake. I think in like the end it was fake for me. Yeah, yeah It turned out that money wasn't even real like people were just like selling companies for like 80 million dollars and it's like Oh, I'm gonna like start a company. It kind of does this thing. It doesn't work yet but you know, we just Raised 80 million dollars in funding and I think it's just like that was just like a decade of fake numbers and I think that that's sort of Proving to not be the you know, it's proving to be fake and everything's sort of like washing out from that experience Like for the whole world and I think the response is like this more analog smaller kind of thing so yeah like Bullshit companies were selling for a hundred million dollars and cars had 3000 horsepower. You know, it is everything And it was all just like a good clickbait. Yeah, it was a gluttonous era Ask anyone who owns a 3000 horsepower car if they enjoy driving it like deeply enjoy force No, that may be a little different but like By the way, one of the most badass men I've ever gotten to hang out with but yeah, um Yeah, man, I don't know. I'm just enjoying Like the simpleness of cars right now I just bought a vanagon and like I had all these plans because we I bought it because we were on trepunks And we had like a camera support vehicle and I thought to myself You know, it would be a really good camera support vehicle a vanagon Yeah, and that's like all it takes for me to go purchase a car I was like, yeah, that's enough of a reason because I can justify it and that's like why I bought so many cars during the Hoonigan era was I would justify it for content like oh if I go buy this f600 Like that'll be a really cool build on Hoonigan never got built on Hoonigan Now I pay storage for it every month because I haven't even moved it to my farm Um, but I bought the vanagon with that idea and I was like, oh, I'm gonna do Uh, 996 engine in it with a 996 box like all these crazy mods and I ended up finding a vehicle that was well maintained and just works Like man, I'm just really enjoying its stock And I realized like I may be crossing into this world where I'm just enjoying like old cars just for being totally. Yeah, like I really enjoy the nostalgia and I'm starting to realize that there's no difference between my My um father-in-law who has a Volkswagen thing and drives it to the beach listening to the beach boys As me driving around in my 90s Volkswagen, you know, listening to mob deep like there's no difference Yeah, just that guy now like it's like I'm just the same thing. Yeah, like I'm really um Like I really want to build Like maybe like a mark one shirako With like uh carbs. Yeah. Yeah like a carved eight valve or something because like The thing I want is like for the engine to be Take up the least amount of space. Oh, yeah. Yeah in the engine bay possible This is such a vw guy thing to want to be like I want the smallest engine Under my hood as possible and then have the least amount of things coming off of it So that you look into it and it's like this like piece of art with like a frame around it I once got pulled over by chp in the in the canyons and they they wanted to state ref me In my rabbit and I'm like first off it's a 1975. So like It's not really state-wrappable because it's pretty smog I was like, but you're more than welcome to pop the hood because like it's a stock engine Like no, there's definitely something under there. Like we heard it. You know, he's like I heard that blowing by and like no What you heard Was a car that makes 50 horsepower stock from the factory trying to get up a hill Like that's what you heard like it was just trying really hard And he popped the hood and all there is is just this little carbureted eight valve in there And he just looked at it and he looked at his motorcycle and he looked back and he said Motor on my bike's bigger. Yeah, I was like, yeah, he's like, all right. You're good to go That was all he had to see he was like it was so just like wimpy. He was like, I'm not even gonna write this guy a ticket Yeah, the green the green paint makes it look yeah, it looks like it's it looks like a hot hatch But it's a it's a it's a mild hatch. It's like lukewarm at best. Yeah, so you're gonna build that for the plan is to build out this year Do an eight valve do nice paint it's original paint on it right now But there's like enough rust spots and enough dings and dents all around it I think it's like I'll enjoy it as it is now like I originally I bought it Um, and my whole thing was like I just wanted to get to run under its own power for a week before I pulled it out Put the 16 valve in And that was whatever three and a half years ago just kept driving it really kind of just fell in love with like what it is But now it's like there's like a bunch of little problems. There's been problems all along Like I always refer to that vehicle It's like my it's like my escape room on wheels because like I just never know when it's gonna break But all the stuff is like really easy to fix. It's all like four parts on it. Yeah, it's like a screwdriver and vice grip I'll get you home But I I wouldn't take it on tref punks right because like it makes so little power That like it just wouldn't be fun at altitude or like doing anything like that Are you gonna do a carb date valve again or no? I was gonna do a carb date valve. I was gonna do just weathers Um, but whipple has talked me out of it because whipple's like so pragmatic He's so like just build a car that is like fun to drive and that you're not gonna have any problems with I have those like wide-ass wheels and I was like, yeah, I'm willing to pull the fenders. He's like Why don't you just put wheels that fit your car? But like really he's like over 50 now. So he's like at the pragmatic part of his life, you know, we're just I'm on my way there Yeah, I know it's pretty amazing. But uh, well, not all of them. Yeah, but he's finished on his way there. He's on his way there but um, anyway Uh, GenV makes um, they make a Weber ITB like a Weber look alike or like a DCOE they call them. I think heritage carbs So I think we're gonna run those so they look like carbs, but Underneath underneath our actual injectors. You're gonna do an ABA. Nope. I'm doing uh original I'm actually the engine I'm building is the engine out of his 85 gti. Got it. Yeah, some building So it's it's sort of like a mid 80s kind of period correct other than the itbs But it'll look that way like I'm trying to key and then most of the I've got a bunch of op parts for it Which are like really rare for mark ones like you see them a lot for mark threes But just weren't as I don't know available so I'm gonna do that and then like kind of keep it pretty much how it is I want to do like a like a sort of like brown interior in it. I saw A brochure from japan in 1975 and it was that color car but with this like Really sort of cool like carrot like caramel camel like interior And I was like that looks really good. I want to put that together with I got some like old rickaros You know just like kind of build this car that I wanted to build when I was 21 but couldn't afford to You know so I'm not sure. I have a set of um There are these old outie wheels that were that I had um I forget the guy's name now, you know the guy who does the split wheels down san diego. Yeah sham sham boy Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I don't even know how to pronounce it. So I think even if I knew what it was I'd forget but um He made a split of this like old 13 inch outie wheel for me. He made just one And it looks pretty sick. So I'll probably run that but I've been collecting wheels for my rabbit So I think I have like nine or 10 sets of wheels everything from like the classic rs's to Like aren't the original rml snowflakes like the og ones that rotiform made for them way way back in the day Um to like just a whole collection of like weird like rally wheels like I don't know I just like collecting like four by 100 wheels are pretty cheap. Yeah, so like they're just like they're a fun thing to collect So my cars are both my golfs are four by 100 still. Yeah, like people don't really care that much about like 15 by Sevens. It's not like a wanted size. Yeah, and Jason's like, why don't you switch to five? Look, it's like because what am I to run like wrx wheels like I like I think one of the main reasons I like cars is finding stuff and my Taste in cars. I think as far as like cars I've built Has been 100% just like what I could find. Yeah, I never like set out with like an intention of like Here's my vision for this and I'm going to execute it because it's just impossible It's it's always like, oh, I have this and I have this and I'll put this on there, too We're very alike because I'm kind of the same way. It's for me. It's like It's like this weird pyramid of It's got to be something that like fits into a cool style in the sign But it also has to be a good deal Like I'm never gonna buy that set of like I want oz futuras for something I don't even know a car. I want them for but I want them for something But like I'm not gonna pay 3200 bucks for 3500 whatever they're going for now I'll wait till I find a cheap set somewhere and I finish them or get a bank or find them on a car And literally buy the car just for the wheels and sell the car like I enjoy The story of finding those parts More so than anything and I'm over wanting perfect stuff like I Like hella magic color tail lights and I have a pink set on the silver car And people are trying to sell those for 1200 dollars I bought mine for 250 bucks and they have like a Crack going down the middle of it. It's like hey chances are This 25 year old piece of plastic sitting in the sun would crack anyway. So I'm just gonna like Remove the middle man I think I think like perfectly imperfect cars are a huge thing my uh, 9 11 my My wife before she was my wife Uh knocked over my motorcycle and scratched the hood of the car And she was horrified and she thought you know, actually like was calling the body shop Like we you know, can can you fix this and like we'd have to repaint the whole car? Like that's not like flat white paint. Like it's not something we can match easily We have to repaint the whole car and you know, she told me I think she thought I was gonna like lose my shit and I think it was a mixture of One I really was into her. So I was like, I'm not gonna get Matt over over something with a car And by the way, I've heard people like I've told the story before on who you're getting people are like I would a blah blah blah. I'm like and that's why you're home alone in a basement. Um, but I sleep in a race car bed And it's like I wasn't gonna get matted or or something like that But it was probably partially my fault because I had too much crap in the garage Um, but it also was like it took away like the worry of scratching anything Because I'm like, oh well, we already got a big scratch on the car now So like I just don't care as much anymore and I just found myself treating the car differently after that It was like I didn't paint my e 30 And I think if I had I wouldn't drive it nearly as much as I do. I like street park it on venice This is my worry with painting my rabbit. Yeah, because like right now I drive the shit out of that car Like I people tag me in photos of that car all the time because I'll just go somewhere and just leave it outside I like like I don't know you that I mean, I know you No, we really don't know each other that well, I think it's okay to be honest But I'm like I'm legitimately I know of you from afar and your History with owning a million cars that don't Watching you drive that car as much as you do has made me as like a fellow car guy like proud of you I'm like, man, it looks like looks like scottos like Looks like his spirit's good, man. He must like really love that rabbit One the car hit this nostalgia thing because that was at a moment at Hoonigan Where we were just building thousand horsepower cars and simultaneously I was building a thousand horsepower Audi that like still doesn't run right and You know and I was chasing this thing that everyone was like, that's what you should be doing And then like I bought this car off a quarry Fixed it got it to run and I just enjoyed it. I just enjoyed it for what it was And it was kind of actually pretty private to me early on and it was actually this thing I felt like I shouldn't share with like the Hoonigan audience because it just felt so on Hoonigan Right 50 horsepower front-wheel drive car like what's cool about that? Like it just didn't fit and I think it like Got into an episode or in the background of one or something and like a ton of people gravitated to it We're like, yo, what's that mark one? You know, we obviously started talking more about it and I think it actually Like freed me. Yeah from this world that I had created that like I could own as the guy at Hoonigan I could only have like a nova a 9-11, you know in a thousand horsepower Audi like I couldn't have these other things Because that just didn't work because they couldn't you know do donuts, right? Like it was like there was like this thing that like the cars had to do And that kind of freed it for me being like yeah people are into this too And it actually opened me up to buying a bunch of garbage Some of which I still own because I was like, hey people also think this really cool old front-wheel drive Audi's cool apparently not But yeah, but I also set this rule for myself That I was gonna stop owning Normal cars which is not an easy life choice right like to not own a daily driver Right to be like every car I own is something. Yeah has to be fun And there are days where it is tense because I have to go do a really normal thing Like I have to go to a like a normal meeting that doesn't that no one's like clapping because I drove my cool car there Or I have to go to a doctor's appointment or have to pick my kid up And bring my kid somewhere and my car breaks on the way and like that is really not fun but When you balance it out like it is fun to just drive something cool every day Like I really enjoy that like the the most pedestrian vehicle I own is a Is it my probably my s8? But like that car is like it's it breaks every day. It's it's such an unreliable vehicle But I really enjoy it and then my other one is a ford van that's like lifted on 35 It's like totally not a makes like 700 horsepower all my cars are Specific and old and I got to the point where like I got access to press cars pretty frequently And it would have to be like a really special press car for me to like feel Better about it than like my car You know, I mean like like parking at the grocery store and like you get out of your car and you're like, I'm cool Yeah, I'm a cool guy and so like Uh, and when I first started working for donut and first started getting press cars like any press car I'd be like this fuck this this rules and now it's like It's hard for me to find a car that I like more than my cars Yeah, I have a hard time I have a hard time driving any new car that really gets me that excited. That's just like a thing But when I was a journalist, I didn't Other than the Audi which was a project that didn't run. I didn't own a car Yeah, it's like I was a you know, I had pressers every week. That was all I drove Um, and you know, you'd get excited about just the new g37 when it came out because it was new and someone else was letting you drive it And well when we first started doing uh auto like car reviews Like we used to joke that Nolan just loved everything They were new. Yeah, he's like, you know, the new ultimate is actually like pretty nice you guys. It's a lot better than not driving something Yeah, he's like, you know, it's got a seat. It's got heated seats. Like it's pretty good It's funny because I at some point I wanted to get back into driving press cars And I had driven a couple new cars and I realized that like the things I was Excited about was like 10 year old technology. Yeah, because I'd be like saying to someone's almost like, you know, every car has that now Like I don't know man. Have you seen the things I drive? Like I don't know like like wait, they all do this like Wow, maybe I should look at new cars. I can see the top of the car In the camera. Yeah, that's like new tech to me I mean to me like with a new tech that came out when I was still a journalist were things like Hill assist and bluetooth connectivity Like that was new and like I really haven't like driven money like new cars since then Yeah, whenever I press car, I'll make sure to drive it to like San Diego or something for like a like schedule a podcast or something Right, just like with the mile traffic. Yeah. Yeah I don't know if for me right now. I'm like anti-new car. I'm sort of it's like forcing me to like make my cars more Like normal drivable. It's making me fix things like air conditioning Right, because otherwise I would just like my wife had like a newer s8 I would just jump in that and then I would just drive that every day and then And then it just became the everyday thing or like my van before it was modified I think there's something kind of fun about That slight adventure that you just don't know where you're whether or not your car is going to get you there or not Yeah, I don't know. I I'll be joy because like you for you. It's cool for me It's cool too, but like for a different reason like I like the coolness of like it's an adventure Yeah, like me going to Trader Joe's today is an adventure like there's a very good chance. I'm not You might not make a bag buddy Stock up on the trail mix while you're there because we might we might have to get home Yeah, better get a snack just better get rations too. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think it just at least needs Some noise and like a smell Yeah, and it's gotta just like rattle around a little bit. Yeah, like you it had you have to Travel with tools. Yeah, like it's got to be something that you're like, ah, this might break or like you have to be the kind of person That's like can't wait till the end of the year so that your triple a toes re-up Because you're like, oh man, I've used all my toes this year Dude, I brought it up on the past few podcasts have been on triple a is the only thing in the world That costs less than I think it should I hope they're not listening. Yeah, because the amount I use all my toes every year. Yeah, it is such a great deal Yeah, I love it. We should get triple a as a partner. Dude, we should And I just want it. Yeah, I want to work with brands that I support and triple a dude and don't sleep on the Discounts you feel a little geriatric typing it in but you'll save some money on a hotel You get like 20 bucks off every hotel and they never even asked for the card Yeah, literally just like you guys have a triple like yeah, yeah, they just punch it in like they only want to see your card They got it. So I also use them for insurance too. I have one of my cars insured. Yeah This is not a triple a ad but it could be triple a good could be Um, no, I switched over to them. They're pretty good. Anyway, um, What other kind of cars are you in do? Like if it wasn't Volkswagen's what would it be? Volkswagen's I like BMW's a lot. Oh, yeah I know you have that. I've been doing 30 with an s54 engine in it. Yeah Um, I want I don't get the BMW thing at all. I wish I did they're just square. They're square Rear-wheel drive cars. I know I know I get it old BMWs. Yeah. Yeah. No, I don't like BMWs I can appreciate what they are And I there's some that I think I would buy like I could see buying an eight series Probably because they're like the least reliable version BMW maybe like the least fun one I can do. Um, I think I could see buying an eight series I could see buying I could see buying an e30 Um, e30 rules and they're still you can still get a nice e30 for less than 10 grand I like clown shoes. I think clown shoes rule. I don't think I fit in one, but they look cool. Yeah Might be surprised. I don't they must be like a stigma thing to it I was just having this I had this conversation multiple times and I had this conversation with my wife I don't know why I don't like them. It's like someone must have hurt me when I was younger who had a BMW I think e30s, especially are like e28s. They just like look Like three boxes and it's rear-wheel drive and it's just like car And that's why the e30 like older volvos the mark II Jetta to me is like when a kid draws a car Yeah, yeah, they're drawing that. Totally. Like it's just a simple shape. It just works. So yeah, I love BMWs I'd like maybe like an e34 Yeah, those are good and I want to with a v8 like to do like a e39 m5 engine in it or something or maybe like an e90 v8. What's that? an s65 um, yeah Like I think I want something with like a v8, but like a high revvy Yeah, like small displacement v8. That'd be fun. I want a marco and shirako. I want like a bright Like either like bright orange or like signal green mark one shirako My rabbit signal green. Yeah, just they called it rally green in the Volkswagen color book Maybe I'll get an orange one and then we can maybe be friends part the other color car I really want in life is orange. Yeah, did you always like colored cars? I think old cars can be bright colors and new cars that are bright colors look dumb Hmm interesting. I like an orange 2002 That's sick and cool. That's a cool car Like a yellow rabbit f8 but like an orange f80 and orange f80 is not a cool car. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah Sorry if you drive one. Yeah So I used to only like black and white cars right had a white 911 a black nova Like all my cars were black and white and even when I first bought my rabbit I was looking for a white mark one And I saw that rally green when I was like, man, that's just a really really cool color Since I bought that all I want is colored cars now Like I just really enjoy color And I in a time when you drive through parking lots and every single parking lot is like white Silver gray And black like that's it. Like there's no coloring cars anymore Like in the 80s and like the early I'm like, you know all the way through really the 60s 70s and mid 80s like we had great color cars I just don't think we have like good colors anymore. And if you do have a good color It's only on an asshole car. Like there's really good Lamborghini colors. I like Lamborghini's but they're for assholes My mark three is a silver arrow. So it's like a silver mark three golf And back in the day like there weren't any silver cars. So like that was like a very Sawed after mark three color. And so when that matt I bought it from matt crook when that car popped up I was like, oh Yeah, dude silver arrow car. Hell yeah, and then like I got it and realized. Oh all cars are silver now So it doesn't look as special. But no, it's cool to folks like guys. Yeah, which all this is all really nice It's like as long as like the seven people who know no like that's the reason. Yeah, silver arrow four door with euro bumpers, dude It's kind of fresh. Yeah, it's pretty good. Well, like I once painted a black car black magic Just because and like for those listening Black is in black black magic as in metallic black, but it was like a special Volkswagen color I did a full respray like car stripped all the way down all the glass out To paint it black magic just because folks like guys would think it's cool I remember my mom was like you did what because I I spent an inheritance that I'd gotten from my great grandmother I'm repainting my car Talk about the most irresponsible thing you could do at like 21 years old And I got this money which was it was like 3,100 bucks and I like worked at a body shop And the guy was like, all right, I'll repaint your car for that much And it was just metallic black like I did went to all that work just to impress like seven guys So we're like that's a black magic car like you can't get black magic in the States My e30 is painted Like gmc 90s truck black because there's nothing in it. Yeah, there's no pearl No glitter nothing. So my 9-11 is painted a pure white. I forget what white it was But it was like the purest white, but then we put a pearlescent on top of it Oh, yeah So that way it was like a because I felt back then like all whites looked off white and I wanted like white white Like absence of color white But then but it like was almost too shockingly white and then we dropped a pearlescent on it and it gave it this like Marshmallow look which was cool I like white cars a lot right now. Yeah, I still like white cars I really hate black cars unless they're big body cars. Like I can imagine owning Like a q-ship, you know, like a big sleeper Um, like an s8 or like something like that. That's not black. Yeah, like it just works immediately Lexus for 30s like they just look cool VIP like a silver lexus ls. Isn't that cool? That's geriatric a black ls That's yakuza. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. You need that. You need that as yakuza Big body murk. Maybe I could get away with like a dark purple Maybe like a dark dark green. Yeah, but there's got it's got to be dark. Like it has to feel Menacing. Yeah, there's nothing menacing about a silver car. I think some cars like white cars can look like fleet Yeah, yeah for sure, you know or they can look like really cool So like a nice car in white is sick or like a lot of old cars in white are sick But a cheap car in white is like more rental right feels like a rental car. Yeah That's how I feel about old trucks like old white trucks look like contractor grade trucks Not as cool. No, we're like an old black truck looks really cool because they're actually kind of rare Yeah, I had an old black 7 3 um old body style ford and Like that thing was really rare. You like to think a black truck is rare. It's like, yeah, they mostly came in silver And like then a bunch of people bought them in red for some reason. Yeah, so yeah Yeah, I don't know. I like I'm now on this thing where it's like I just want to own a bunch of color cars So like I'm as I was saying before like I got these 24 to 26 cars. I want to make this Concept and the name of the show is just going to be like does it run because I was like this big like joke was like Is it scottos does it run was just like hoonigan joke? And I want to kind of go through cut it down to like 10 But like I have like all these like mandates I need which is like I have to have a certain types of cars I need like, you know, I need my my sports car. I need my van. I need this I need that But then I also have like the color cars I want to own and the this would all came off the tangent was I really do want an orange car I had an orange opal at one point, but I sold it before I ever got it running And but it was like that's such a quintessential like late 70s early 80s color. So good. Yeah I want a bright old car Maybe for tref punks next year Because like old cars you can get away with a lot more Without being a douche bag. Yeah. Yeah, I agree All right, let's let's subject change real quick. Yeah Drifter movie. Yeah, that was fun working with you on it Dude, it's talked too much about the movie because I don't know what we can say and what we can't say yet And I don't know when it's coming out or anything, but It was fun to work with you on something In like kind of a space. I think that was outside of what the two of us spend most of our time in now Holy and it's a thing that like I came from that world right and I think Like I I feel like I have my pre donut professional life than my donut professional life and then starting speed and some calling me out of the blue to Do that movie kind of like made My post donut life sort of like combined my whole life And I feel like that was a thing that like really made me feel More like myself in a time that like I needed to and so it was like Just like such a great experience like being on set Really great car curation I met people that like I hang out with all the time and it was cool because like I'm very Aware of you and I'm very aware of like you're what you've made But I've never been on set with you right and so there you directed second unit But there was a day where like you directed me and I was like That's pretty cool. And it made me I want to make a movie now You know, yeah, and like I think there's all this talk of like Hollywood being dead or whatever, but like It's like, you know, we've made big projects that cost as much as features and you know, I Make 45 minute youtube videos now. So just like how do we double that? And I think that like it's totally realistic to think about like making a movie and I think Yeah, and even like starting to think about like how what like distribution would look like Like maybe we do it on youtube and sell tickets like in that way. I think There's just creative ways to do everything. I'm pretty I don't know. It was like I just really really liked it And I wanted to do it again. Yeah, I had a similar sort of like awakening like I always wanted to do a movie And something that's always been like there Um Back in the day David Ayer, we like, you know, worked on training day. We wrote Fast and Furious did um fury End of watch a bunch of great stuff He reached out to ben conrad and wanted to do a jim kana movie and that like planted this like seed in my head of like Man, I really want to do this like this would be really cool to do one day We chased it never really kind of came together and then I got that phone call from sung Mine originally was to actually work on the initial d project um For various reasons that paused and sung was like, I just want to go bake something like I'm going to make my own film And I want to have the control. I don't want to have to deal with the studio like we're going to fund it We're going to do this whole thing and you know, I want you to do all the action for it um, which was just really really amazing experience because Sung let me sort of run most of the second unit stuff just completely on my own and like kind of figure that out Run my own team while roge the whole group Um, but then I got I think the part of it that I was unexpected Was getting to jump in and help with some of the uh, some of the narrative stuff like working with you Um, got to work with michael, um, you know got to work with a bunch of other people. Um, you know rosy like tamaris character and like I wasn't expecting that and one of the things that went when I went there I was I was a little bummed the first few days because I was so busy that I thought I was going to be able to get to Like shadow Sung and like watch what was happening on main unit But honestly like if I wasn't if second unit wasn't operating I was doing something else to help main unit for the next day or do something else or whatever Or just continue to work logistic so as the shoot went on and they started to kind of run behind schedule and sung and And uh chris were giving me stuff to do I was like man, I really like this. Yeah, right like I really enjoy Not just the action stuff, which is something that feels very Second nature to me at this point. I've been doing it for almost 20 years But like I man, I really enjoy the narrative stuff and I immediately after that came home Sat with you know will almost like I want to go do this like I want to go make a movie you and I talked about I think on like one of the last days we had on set in willow of like man How do we go do this like we if there is anything that that project showed me? um, is that I could go do this myself. Yeah, right or with other people but like but like this is Possible, right because it always felt like it was this other world like it wasn't close to what we were doing It was like oh, there's like what we do for youtube and then there's hollywood We're not hollywood. Yeah, but in but like and granted that was like a low budget independent film But I was like man and we could definitely go make this like this feels like something that's within reach And I immediately went home and like bought all the books Like like just save the cat. Yeah, say red save the cat. I'm actually reading Roger Corman's like how I Like how I made you know money how I never lost money in making films or something like how I made a million dollars I forget what the name of it is but Roger Corman. He's like king of the b films It's actually a really great read because he just writes about um, how to just make low low budget stuff and I think that I enjoy that creative um Kind of like sandbox because like that's how it was at holland again Yeah, it was like hey, we can't afford to do this. So like we have to do it this way And that book is really like he he did all this stuff and there's all these like great actors and great directors who Who worked with him, you know from scorsese like and so on But he was known for just like how cheap can you make it and just like an interesting look at it because when I look at What we've done. I think the reason why you know holland was successful Donut was successful a lot of other people who are peers is because We got to sort of bushwhack in a time where no one was doing it and like you look right now You're like, yeah, hollywood's falling. This is the perfect time to go and they're telling everybody to figure out how to make it And self-produce. Yeah, I mean while we've been doing it for 10 years. Yeah, I think and it's like I don't think I don't think the movies I don't think the theater. I don't think the audience is the problem I just think that the traditional way of going about it's the problem and and this is the set standard bloat, right? You get to You know, there's too much money on the wrong thing. There's no there's no lack of money. There's a there's a ton of money They just keep some people want more of it. Yeah, they want to charge like even like That was another like subway takes that I just saw recently. Yeah, it's just like If you want to save the film industry executives and Like the top of the bill. Oh, I did see that actors just take less money less money pay more people more money It'd be fine. Fuckin idiots. It's great. Yeah, just like make cheaper stuff Pay certain people less money. Yeah, and most people more money Well, there's a couple movies that have done that model of like paying everybody's scale Which is like the basic rate for the for the union and then everybody earns on the movie making money And I think that's like really valuable like if I could redo Hoonigan, you know and realize like I was I only own 10% of Hoonigan like it was Ken's company and and wasterman was our other our other partner I may have done Most of the work because I was the one running it but that was my sweat equity that I was putting into the company Um, but if I was to redo it now knowing what I did, I think that I think at some point there needed to be Like a way that everybody felt like they were earning on the business doing well. I think that's the big Yeah, but like but then but that being said, I don't think that selling companies is the goal anymore So it's like you have to find a way to do that Obviously with movies there There's still an element where it does kind of sell at the end and oh every movie is just a business And like you realize like each movie you make is its own business and you kind of figure that all out But like man, there's such opportunity and obviously i'm sure you've been like seeing all the marty supreme stuff That's going on like I think that that you know, I think he's done You know, I think he's done an excellent job in that marketing team that's done it of like putting that movie out there for people To talk about I haven't seen it yet. So I don't know if it's good or not Reviews are really good But I look at that and I think about it from like a more micro version of like how people in the automotive industry can Position a good movie in a completely different way than hollywood has ever like sinners I think sinners is even a better example of marty sincerine because fantastic. I just watched it this weekend first time No, yeah, oh wait. Yeah. Oh really? Yeah. Did you like it? Yes? Loved it. It was so good. Yeah, but like sinners Had a better opening box office than marty supreme. I think like 60. Yeah, and the marketing for sinners was a lot of like technical film stuff 100 like hoogler talking about like aspect ratios and shit and like Giving the audience the benefit of the doubt that they're like interested in why this movie is good and I think You know, like I think first and foremost I think of myself as like an entertainer But the way that I've always entertained is to like educate like the three e's and speed like we came up with this after the fact but it's like I love this by the way. I love justifying something afterwards and being like this is the reason why we didn't do it But why we should have done it? Honestly, that's what they all mean. So first and foremost it has to be entertaining. Yep. If it's entertaining Then it also has to be educational. So if it's those two things then we can put it out Um, and then the third one I forget the third one, but the third one is like extra. It's gotta be extra The third one's like emotional or like endearing, but it's like that's it's like basically Like catharsis for myriola like sharing or whatever. So like It has to be those first two before it can be like super personal, right? You know or else it's just like mass potory, but like first and foremost it has to be entertaining and then educational. So like I think Yeah, the the press for around centers. I thought it was like really great. Yeah, I think it spoke a lot to the film Make a world I'll give you two things or three things off of that first I made an homage to centers aspect ratio changing in the beginning of jim kana Ozzy shreds we go from what is like scope like ultra wide into like regular wide Yeah, yeah midway through just because I thought that was such a cool thing That he did where you constantly you're changing aspect ratio And I didn't realize it like I watched in the theater and it wasn't like midway through That I realized it and the only reason I realized it was because I saw a post about different aspect ratios And then I went and like was like, oh And it was like a different experience depending on where you saw it So like you get like the full experience. Yeah, I saw it on 70 mil. Yeah, did you change the expense ratio like on actions? It was like No, it was great. I was I was fantastic. Then the other thing is um You guys did three ease and speed. I'm imagining so it would stand out That was kind of like a like a search optimization thing. Yeah. Yeah Yeah, and just to make it like A brand name. No, I get it. Yeah, because I always thought the issue with doughnut like when Ben first came to me was like that name isn't very easily trademarked Totally like Hoonigan was its own word Like it was very easy for us to trademark it and protect it and it also made it very easy to like search it Right because it was like the only thing that came up So I was curious when I first saw that because we were like, why misspell speed and I was like, uh, it makes a lot of sense Yeah, it's sort of like for a while. I was gonna call it power, baby Right. Sometimes I regret not doing it I mean is I'm assuming speed is sort of the up to speed connection. Yeah, so it was like an homage to that And then there's another YouTuber called ishowspeed. Yeah, of course huge. Yeah And so yeah, I think it was like SEO but also to like make it Not just car. I think just to make it like like you said like its own word. Yeah I will be honest. I'm like seven days old from realizing like oh up to speed speed Like that just didn't click for me early on like it was just like car channel called speed extra e That makes sense like visually. I liked it like I didn't question it and the other day I saw like something feed up, you know feed to me that was like an old up to speed. I was like Well that took that was a little slow It's also this like painter. I think his name's Daryl white And he did like a lot of the peewee herman uh Like set design and he does these like paintings where it's just like a saying And they like scale like really far away like that And so I was like looking at a bunch of stuff when I started it and I think the Extra e sort of like lent itself. Yeah, and so like our first logo is like kind of like a Force perspective like scaling back right kind of thing I dig it because I grew up in graffiti and a lot of times if you wanted to like fill space You would just add more vowels So like if you had a tag and then you wanted it to like, you know But you wanted to fill the whole side of something like the side of a city bus You'd like just add more ease So you would just do like oh, I'm gonna do my tag is whatever and would add E's in it just to take up the whole space or something like that was like a pretty standard thing And so like we add extra valves to like we have merch that says cool with three. Oh, right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Saw that saw that um Yeah, man, but uh going back to making movies So like I don't know is that do you want to do that next because like I want to do that next I'm pretty honest about that. I want to talk to you about this Maybe off air, but like we want to do a magazine Um for speed. Yeah speed mag Um, I definitely want to make a movie um, I wouldn't Mind wouldn't mind. I'd like to like explore the idea of Like making a series Like a comedy series um and like again Thinking about interesting ways to like publish things On my channel and then potentially licensing it to like netflix or something like that I don't know. I want to do like I want to continue to Do what we're doing and kind of Explore like the filmmaking aspect of youtube and like I want to encourage more people to like make things that they think are good because I do think that a lot of this uh algorithm jail is self-inflicted and I I want to encourage like Other creators to like do stuff that you like do stuff that you think is good because I do think that like If you make good stuff People will watch it and people will find it Um, and then I want to I just want to do like more comedy stuff like I kind of want to continue like combine all of my experience um Like with youtube and then like comedy and stuff like that On the comedy thing So I was asked in a panel one of the panels that you didn't join on the drifter movie Someone asked about your performance and I said, you know, I think the one thing That'll probably come as a shock is that you may be showing up thinking that you're getting james pump free From speed or from doughnut, but you're gonna get him playing a character That's like very serious and like has a darkness to him. Um, Which is the real james pump free. Is it the real james pump free? No I got a deep darkness, but like that was definitely it was like interesting because you called out that role Like I know that you wanted you, you know, and then you've said this on the podcast You don't need to repeat it here that when sung gave you the script you're like, hey, I see one character I think I can fit sung saw that for you as well Um sung also plays a character that is unlike any character that I think people know him as He's not Han. He's not super cool. Right like there's this completely different piece to it. Um But you want to make comedy stuff But like you know, you're really good at that role like because I think you did a very good job of that and I'd love to do those roles too and I think that like Like the best dramatic movies are super funny, you know what I mean? Yeah And so like I I think I would just like I would like to continue to do Everything that I can do to keep making stuff Ideally some of those things that I make Will give me some tape that someone can watch And be like, hey, I think maybe he could do this other thing and then hopefully like I would love to be in other people's stuff Did did you listen to the smart list with David DeCovini? No, it's very good because he talks about how it's actually all the stuff I didn't know about David DeCovini like I didn't know he was like an academic I didn't know he could care less about sci-fi But he talks and and also like how influenced he is by Charles Bukowski And but he talks about how like the greatest comedy comes in like really sad for like things, right? Like he played these like you think about californication where it's like His story in that which is a very bukkowski like character is It's really funny, but it's also really like it's really heavy and he's like that's like his zone Like he really loves this like heavy comedy that like works really well But you've played a lot of like really like topical fun Stuff especially for like for that other stuff, but I feel like there's this other side of you They're like and again, I don't I will keep saying this like we don't really know each other that well But um, this is now the longest conversation we've ever had Um, but that other side of it is something that like feels like it you fit in really nicely I appreciate that. I would love to do more of it. I really just I want to do Honestly, I'm just getting clips so that when you and I make a fucking killer movie they go back to this and they're like Remember this moment where they barely knew each other now. They own an island together With a racetrack on it Excepting our uh independent spirit award. Yeah. Yeah. I mean I just like I think I just I want to do A bunch of stuff I want to do and I think I can do a lot of stuff and I just want to Like I said, I want to do whatever I can to give people confidence in the idea of giving me an opportunity to Do stuff I want to do. You know what I mean? Yeah, I um, it's funny because when I left Hoonigan, I think a lot of people thought I retired Because like I bought a farm. Yeah, which like had nothing to do with any of that. Well, it's like that's the yeah You bought the farm. It's usually mean to die, but like but the idea that like yeah, you're done like you're out the pasture kind of thing um The reason I bought the farm very quickly is because In the couple years before ken passed he bought the ranch. He Falking loved the ranch to the point that I hated the ranch because we'd have these really important meetings And he'd be like, yeah, so anyway, look at these blueprints for the ranch. Look at this for the ranch I got this design for the ranch and I'm like, dude, we have to have a serious conversation all you talk about is the ranch but when he passed There was this like ran. There was a solace and like man. He really was enjoying life in the last couple of years I can't say he always was but he was and I know it looked like he was from the outside But he was racing cars and doing all the stuff but like he really seemed like at home With his family on the ranch like doing cool ranch stuff like chopping wood These things that were like not part of his public life, right? He was just enjoying that time and I had always wanted something similar for myself and I was like F*** it. I'm gonna buy a farm and I like over leveraged myself and like bought this property like did not I did none of my homework, but I just was like I could die tomorrow Like I'm gonna go get this place and then like I really I still really love it. But like in those that first year. I was just there all the time And I was it was like therapy for me To be out of a city to be away from everything to like have quiet to like turn my cell phone off like all these things that Um that were happening because I went in this like massive and I don't take the super dark turn at the end But like I went to this massive like Like just weird state of like what is my life now? I'm going through that right now. This is all over I was like dealing with like all different things like depression all this stuff But I was also in this like I f***ing hate social media and I'm part of the problem Right, right like I had read all these books and I was like like from you know, everything from like the jonathan height books to um Stolen focus like all these great books and I was like man, I'm part of this like I've created part of this problem for an audience Like I thought I created positive content But still I created this like dopamine distraction instead of like going out and enjoying the world and touching grass Right, so I was like just going and doing that on my own and trying to like kind of find find my way Not all of it worked But I went and really kind of enjoyed going and doing all that but people really thought that like I retired and like It was over for me I was I was working at another company as a chief creative officer, you know for super plastic and doing that whole thing But I was like, yeah, I was just off to go do something else But what I realized Was like, you know, and I don't know if you know this but like the When hoonigan went bankrupt I lost most of my money because my money was tied up in that equity So like I did not do well off the hoonigan deal like it sold for pennies on the dollar for me Right, so I wish it never sold because it would be in a better off situation if it was still there, but um So but even if I had made Enough money to not even retire but to take a break It was very obvious to me that I couldn't take a break that actually one of the biggest issues I had at super plastic was that like there wasn't enough going on for me Like I it was like a very nice job. They paid me handsomely But I was like started my day at 10 and ended at 4 and there really wasn't much more expectation for me And that like wasn't enough and I realized and kind of trying to land this plane here I I think very similar to you. It's like I just want to do a lot of things Yeah, I want to make shit. I just want to make shit like like magazines books movies Podcasts, I mean the big joke is like I've launched a podcast and I already have an idea for four other podcasts They all have me in them Like it's like I just enjoy that and that was like the thing that I missed There's two things I really miss from hoonigan one as I miss like I miss going showing up to work every day And seeing my friends. Yeah, like that doesn't happen anymore Like I wake up and I sometimes just spend the day by myself all day And like that's just not as much fun and like a bunch of us are trying to break that by being like, hey Let's just fucking catch up for lunch. You know, like let's I can totally relate to that. I mean, I work at my house And like my two friends come over to my house. Yeah, we're in my house right now. Yeah and it's sort of like Like just kind of groundhog day sometimes and so I really want to focus on having goals and I like having goals that seem Kind of like they need a lot of luck involved in them so I don't know you wanted that like there's something I thought when you were directing the two scenes that you directed me in and thinking back on like it makes sense Uh That it contributed to I think like the success of the gym conas and just like Hoonigan in a whole As a whole I think you're like very good At understanding what the audience is seeing And like what they're going to be thinking while they're seeing it and so like just the way that you Like set up the shop and then like communicated to like the actors as far. All right, so here's what's happening Here's what you need to do like it felt like very old hollywood Like it felt like in a great way. I was like, all right great Like it felt like you know like you being like, all right, so like Hang the rear tire over that right, you know, and it like wasn't in like a disrespectful way like at all I was just like, hey, this is what we're doing. Here's what you need to do to make that happen. I'm like, all right sick and You know, I think it's like the same Like I watched some like bts stuff of you guys talking about the latest gym cona where you were like He drove when he drove across the water It didn't look like water Like it didn't look like it was deep, right? So you like sunk the other car and like put the boat in there so that the audience would know that it was deep Right, and I think that's something If like you take any advice if you're like some sort of creator watching this this you do I think like Thinking about what the audience is experiencing in the thing that you're making Is something that's like really overlooked And I think so I do how interesting and I think like very Like the most important thing Like that's the most important thing is like how the audience is Receiving the thing and I think that's something that we think about quite a bit I think separates us from other people and like you're very Very conscious. I think like goat level of like here's what the audience is gonna see You know And so I appreciate that reason that like I would want to Work on a big project with you because I think we like share that like Okay, but then like What are they gonna think you know, it's very fun to like imagine that that's what it is for me I appreciate that I for me. I think I I it's so second nature for me to just think about it through that lens I've never even thought that that was not like that was not normal. Yeah, but now I and coming from the world of magazines You're constantly thinking what does the audience think of this but you like never had immediate feedback Like so I'm one of those people who loves the comment. Well, because good or bad it helps me sort of understand Where the audience is at and I'm at a point now where like you could write negative comments And like I can either take them for real like there's sometimes you're like, man, that's a really good point But then those times you're like, yeah, you're just the outlier just like the same outlier who says everything you make is great Yeah, right like there's both sides of that though Like there's those people in the middle that like really kind of find that and I think that's one of the best parts we have in modern day content is that you can get that immediate critique sometimes bad But like I think in general that immediate critique is so neat because it allows you to adjust how you make stuff and like as much as Previously I said that I hate things about youtube Like I did really enjoy those analytics because you could sit there and be like well people stopped watching after this Like what was it about this that wasn't good that I don't think like your average like movie directors get Like they make a movie It takes You know a year for it to come out. Sometimes they're not even involved in the edit So like what it actually becomes versus what they directed is like two separate things The script probably wasn't theirs It was someone else's script and then the studio gets involved and reworks the whole thing again And then it goes out to theaters and then they get like professional critique. Yeah And like like you can't like professional critique is so different than what the audience thinks Like what the guy who's reviewing it for a variety is so different than what the audience is and I think that's like a really unique thing That me you and everyone else who's come up in this weird world that is youtube content like You can really learn from because I know other youtubers who do not look at comments at all Yeah, like they literally just don't even look at it. I saw you guys posted something other day about like You guys are in the comments and you're reading them. We do. I have to manage it for sure. Yeah, like Like I'm an addict. Mm-hmm and talk about like I Don't know how I didn't realize this until like this summer, but like I like showed up and I was like guys This is a terrible job for people who are addicted to like dopamine hits We'll like work real hard on something for like two weeks Then we'll put it out and like we'll either be like real happy or like kind of sad for the next four days And it's just then we'll like do it again and again and again. So I have to like I actively manage Filling my life with other reasons to be happy or sad I can't imagine being a movie director and making something every two years and then having it fail Yeah, like the greatest thing about daily transmission was well today's episode sucks. We got another one for you tomorrow Yeah, right like I get to fix my mistakes Imagine working for two years and you put something out and it's like not good like that's definitely something I worry but that being said like if I could pick the things I want to do like number one thing is Originally, I was saying second unit direct action, but I think like I'm just gonna say it like I just want to direct a movie Like that's the thing. I think you could I think you'd be good. I want to be in it. Let's do it. Yeah, let's make a movie Yeah, for sure. Should we end on that or you got anything else? 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