Episode 339: Five Things Kids Need Right Now Socially with David and Sissy

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It's time to turn those what ifs into... with Shopify Today. Sign up for your $1 per month trial today at Shopify.com slash RBG. Go to Shopify.com slash RBG. That's Shopify.com slash RBG. Hey, friends. Welcome to the Raising Boys and Girls podcast. I'm Sissy Goff. And I'm David Thomas. And we're so glad you've joined us for this conversation. Let's dive in. Well, hey, David Thomas. Hello, Sissy Goff. I'm already missing our Enneagram series. I am too. We had so much fun. So much fun. But I'm super excited about this series. And I was thinking this morning about where we feel like kids are, where we feel like parents are. And I think we would both say we have a lot of concern around a lot of different ideas. So this next series, you guys, we want you to buckle up because we're going to be talking about some things we haven't talked as much about that feel particularly important in today's world. Yes. And we're going to have some amazing guests who are experts in each of those areas. And will you tell them the areas we're going to touch on? We are going to be talking about what kids need now socially, what they need emotionally, what they need physically, spiritually, and what's going on culturally. Yes. What they need right now, you guys. So it feels like a really important conversation to tune into in these next few weeks. And we're going to kick it off with talking about what they need socially. Because every day in our office, we're sitting with parents of kids of so many ages who are struggling in relationships, relationships at home, relationships with peers, relationships out in the world. So this feels like a really important conversation to be having right now. Yes, it does. So can I kick it off? Please do. All right. We're going to begin. We're going to talk about five areas where kids are struggling today. And we're going to begin by talking about how kids need more civility. Our world needs more civility right now. Yes, it does. And I don't think it's ever been a harder time for kids to see evidence of that on people out in the world. Like if you turn on the television. Sadly, I think kids don't get an opportunity to see a lot of civility just at the grocery store, at the coffee shop in so many different spaces of adults behaving well. And so we get an opportunity to model something different. Let's talk about just even a big idea with this. So as we're saying, kids are growing up in a culture where indifference, dismissiveness and criticism are the norm. And kindness feels like an option, which grieves me to even say that sentence out loud. In fact, we'd say kids today are hearing our opinions more than they're seeing evidence of kindness in the world. So a few stats that are important to share hard to hear. In a national survey from the American Bar Association, 85% of Americans said civility is worse today than it was 10 years ago. 85%. I'm honestly surprised it wasn't even a little bit higher than that. When people ask who's to blame, social media and the internet top the list. I would sure agree with that. With many saying they expect civility to continue to decline. I was thinking I was behind a car recently that had one of those old bumper stickers that said bark less, wag more. And I think, my goodness, we all need that bumper sticker right now because. Yes, we do. You and I talk about how fascinating we are that if you just kind of scroll through on social media, how many people are yelling? That that's the default setting of just how they're communicating in the world like it's just an angry, loud tone. So our bumper sticker is bark less, wag more. So you can make connections with kids around this that if adults are living in a culture where harshness is normal, it's no surprise the kids we love are absorbing that. They're watching how we disagree, how we talk about people who think and vote differently. And then they carry that tone into the lunch room and often into the group text. So how it shows up in the world of kids and adolescents, we're seeing is more eye rolling, sarcasm and criticizing each other just for laughs. Kids are repeating adult political or cultural talking points that are loaded with contempt. We sure have seen evidence of that in the last few election cycles and heard so many kids heartbroken and hurt by it. And tendency to quote unquote win the argument rather than preserve the relationship. Those are some of the big ways we're seeing it. That's showing up with us too. So what can we be doing at home? Let's talk about some ideas. First would be what we're going to call a family civility reset. So I talk all the time with parents about how much I love the book and movie wonder and how I wish that were a required read and watch for every kid. And I love that classic line from the movie of you can practice being right or you can practice being kind. And I think this world is full of people who are practicing being right and again who are getting louder in their attempts to do it and not practicing being kind. And I think it's important to note that kind doesn't mean I'm just trying to be nice. But I think sometimes the most kind thing that I can do is to say nothing or to disagree with respect. And so I think kindness within that context can look a lot of different ways. And I think within this family civility reset, I think one of the things we could do with kids is come up with one or two phrases that are just off limits or come with immediate consequences like that's stupid. You're ridiculous. You're wrong. And replace that with one positive like help me understand or tell me more. I use that statement all the time, all the credit given to our dear friend Kelly Corrigan. I think there is so much wisdom in that. Like I'm going to talk about this and raising emotionally strong boys. I'm going to assume the best and be curious about the rest. So every time I say tell me more, I'm assuming the best. I'm assuming I don't have all the information yet or I don't understand all the ways you see the world. You all think about it. We just finished the Enneagram series and we talked about there are nine completely different ways of seeing the world. Nine completely different ways of moving through the world. So we haven't cornered the market on the right way to see the world and move the world in our number. That was part of the wisdom of what we hoped folks would take away with them. So secondly, we want to model disagreement kindly. We want kids to overhear grown up saying things like, I really disagree with them on this, but I respect them. We see this differently and that's okay. I think about those wise words of you don't have to be disagreeable to disagree. And thirdly, catch and name civility. So watch for the evidence of when it does show up, which sadly we're noting is more and more rare. But hey, I loved how you disagreed. You know, if we see evidence out in the world, I love how that person disagreed and was still kind in their approach. And with kids, we can say things like, I love how you disagreed with your brother, but still state kind. That's maturity. Okay, I need to publicly apologize to my sister Sharon. She came to stay with us not long ago, slept in our guest room, and I may have run her life. What happened? She slept on our bull and branch sheets and the next morning she said, why does this bed feel like a hotel? And I said, because you're not sleeping on sheets from 2009 anymore. I get it. So here's the thing. Most of us keep bedding way longer than we should. The corner starts slipping, the fabric gets thin, pillows go flat. You think you need a new mattress, but really you just need better sheets. That's why we upgraded to bull and branch. 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There is something about hearing a laugh, a phrase they used to say, even just seeing the way they moved in a home video. Those details matter, and so many of those memories are still sitting in boxes somewhere, old VHS tapes, camcorder tapes, photo albums fading with time. That's where Legacy Box comes in. Legacy Box is the simplest and safest way to preserve your old home movies, photos, and audio. You order a Legacy Box, pack up your tapes, film reels or pictures, and send them in with their prepaid label. Their team in Tennessee carefully digitizes everything by hand and sends back your originals along with digital copies you can watch on your phone, computer, or even stream to your TV. There's something powerful about seeing those moments come back to life. It's not just nostalgia. It's being able to share our memories with the next generation to let kids see where they came from. Right now, Legacy Box is running their Mother's Day sale, but for our listeners, they're also offering an additional $10 off your order so you can take advantage of the sale and save a little extra while preserving your family's story. Visit LegacyBox.com and use discount code RBG to save. That's code RBG. You want to talk about another one? Well, I was thinking as you were talking about how often I used to hear the grandparent phrase of you catch more flowers with honey. So good. I don't hear that anymore. No. But there is so much value. I think even in this culture of telling your truth, there's a way to tell your truth with a whole lot of kindness. And we've got to help kids move back to that. And I think part of the requirement of that would be the second idea, which is empathy. That we feel like kids need more of right now, certainly, and are losing in this age of screens and social media. And David, you brought up a movie I was going to recommend. I think Wonder, the book, and the movie are a master class in empathy. Because they literally take the perspective of the different people in the story. And it's a great way for kids to lean into that and learn more about it. So okay, empathy from a big picture. We have a definition of empathy and are my kids on track and I want to read it to you. It says, pity is noticing that a friend has fallen in a hole and feeling bad for him that he's down there. Sympathy is lying down on the side of the hole to talk to him while he's there. Empathy is getting in the hole with him until help arrives, knowing that company is the best help of all. Wow. And I don't see kids climbing into the hole with each other anymore. I don't think they know how to climb into the hole. And so we've got to do more teaching. We've got to do more modeling. We've got to slow down enough to teach these really important lessons. And I love that Brene Brown says that empathy is a skill set, not a character trait. And I think sometimes we can watch kids and be concerned that they don't have what we would consider the character trait of empathy instead of realizing it's a skill set that we can certainly help them develop. And I think part of the problem is they are less exposed to community, which we're going to talk about in a few minutes. Being less kids who spend time with other kids outside of school, less kids who develop meaningful friendships, and another part of it is that they are more consumed with screens than they are concerned about developing real empathetic relationships. Thus, the lack of community. They are scrolling past pain instead of sitting with it today. We want to help them learn to sit with it. And so how a deficit of empathy can show up in kids' worlds? Here's how it looks for kids. Difficulty reading facial expressions and tone because so much is happening via text that we're losing that ability. Kids are faster to label other kids. She's so dramatic. He's so weird. They do that quicker than they wonder what's underneath. Back to that idea of tell me more. They have a lack of curiosity about others. They struggle to apologize in a way that actually acknowledges impact. How much of that is happening in houses all over the world? Y'all, we're all doing that. We've got to do something different. So let's talk about four things you can do at home. So one is one sentence empathy practice to start having a one sentence empathy practice regularly. After a conflict, saying to kids, if you had to guess, what might your brother have been feeling? What might your sister have been feeling? And then help them try it out if they say, I don't know, which a lot of kids are going to do. Maybe she felt left out. Maybe he was embarrassed. And then why don't you tell me an idea you have for how they might have been feeling? So that's number one, one sentence empathy practice. Number two, we want to use stories and media just like we're talking about with wonder. When you're watching a show together as a family, pause it and say, who do you feel for in this scene? Why? Because stories are a really easy way to practice perspective taking without the stakes of real life. So start pausing shows regularly. Number three, normalize repair, which we talk about so much with kids. Teach them to say things like, I'm sorry that I blank. I can see that it made you feel blank. Next time I'll try to blank. I'm going to say it again. I'm sorry that I, whatever they did, I can see that it made you feel blank. Next time I'll try to do better. That is empathy and action. And then number four, shut down screens when you see a shift. It is appropriate to say we're not having a whole lot of empathy going on in our family, so we're all going to take a screen free Sunday till we can grow some of that skill back because it's really important in a priority in this house that we just take breaks regularly. So good. Talk about the third idea. Okay. The third idea is reciprocity, which is one of the social milestones we talk about in our kids on track. We believe so much in building this important social muscle, which is really just the give and take of relationship. It's that back and forth of conversation that we're going to talk more about in a few minutes where there's listening, waiting and sharing the spotlight, which is hard for a lot of kids because so much of their world is either on demand or one-sided. And there's some fascinating data that revealed that young Americans ages 15 to 29 spent about 45% more time alone in 2023 than in 2010. That's a huge shift. Yes. A big shift away from in-person back and forth interaction. So it's no surprise that kids and adolescents are struggling more in this space. There's just less practice and opportunity. Screen use displaces face-to-face connection. Professional pediatric groups note that time on devices replaces activities that actually build reciprocity, like unstructured play, family conversation and shared chores. And even act. Save that again. That was so good. Unstructured play, family conversation and shared chores. Yes. And even the evidence, we've talked so much about kids and adolescents avoiding risk of joining clubs less, joining sports teams less, not asking a girl to a homecoming dance. All those are opportunities for reciprocity. So if I'm not in these real life opportunities, of course that muscle is going to be less developed. So prolonged screen exposure is linked with delays in language and social interaction skills, the very skills kids need for give and take conversations. Reciprocity is built when kids have to wait their turn to talk, compromise on which game to play, or stay in a conversation even when it's awkward. That doesn't happen as naturally when most interaction is curated or can be clicked away. And the ways we're seeing it show up the most in kids' worlds is monologuing about their own interest, but not asking questions back. Oh my goodness. Man. I had a quarter for every time some 12-year-old boy had talked at length about a video game you Never reading any evidence on me that we should be done with this conversation right now. That's long enough to be talking about something that I'm interested in without passing the ball, which we'll talk more about what that means in a few minutes. Kids quitting friendships quickly when things get hard instead of working through. How often are you seeing that with girls? More than ever before. And it breaks my heart and concerns me for what that means for real life relationships moving forward. Absolutely. Long-term relationships. Difficulty tolerating boredom, waiting, or compromise. Oh. So a few ideas parents to think about as we develop this important social muscle. One, we want to teach conversation ping-pong. Explain that good conversation goes back and forth. Practice at dinner. Everyone has to ask at least one follow-up question before sharing something from their day. I love that. I do too. I do too. And one of the ways Sissy and I've talked before about this and a reminder here that we help teach this in our offices is Sissy keeps a tennis ball nearby. I keep a little nerve football. And we will throw those back and forth with kids at different points. And as I'm throwing the football, I'm going to ask a question while you're holding the football. You'll answer. When you throw it back to me, you're going to ask me a question. And while I'm holding the football, you're listening. And so all of that practice is developing some of just the mechanics of reciprocity that you could be doing at home with your kids. They could be doing with each other as siblings. Can I tell another favorite idea? Please do. I love with kids. And I remember doing this with Henry Little when we, the two of us would go out and have a meal together and it was hard to get him to engage much in conversation. But I also have done it with kids on bike rides when we're at Hope Town where we'll tell a story together. And I will say the first line of the story, then they say the second line of the story. And I tell the third and it's so fun. Such great tool. Where kids go, you learn so much about them and it's just a great practical way to practice reciprocity. I love that you added that in. Another idea would be to build shared responsibility. So let kids help plan family nights, choose games and negotiate their way to finding the game. Talk about how everyone gets a voice. No one gets their way all the time. Can I add one thing about this, too? Please. Have a family that I adore, that I have worked with for over a decade. Three girls that are now young adults in the way that they share responsibility is now that their kids, their youngest, I think they started probably when their youngest was maybe a junior in high school with this. When they plan trips, the girls make the plans. That's incredible. They figure out the plane reservations. They figure out where they're going to dinner. And it's such great learning for those kids to do the work. And obviously the parents have approval financially and practically. But the girls love doing it together and they feel so much ownership and pride in what they've done. That's incredible. No, I love it. I love it, too. Another idea is name reciprocity when you see it. So say things to kids like, I noticed you stopped talking and asked your friend a question. That's how friendships grow. Watch for where kids can practice. I think practicing with grandparents is a great way to develop the muscle of reciprocity, too. And you could even role play with them before a visit with extended family members and they could practice some questions to ask back and forth and then they get to listen for those answers. So a lot of practice context. Yes. You want to talk about another? You know, there are some organizations you just trust because you know the people behind them. That's how we feel about MENNO. We have trusted the folks at MENNO for years. Our dear friends Jess and Denise work there and we've seen firsthand how deeply they care about helping kids know and love Jesus. This isn't just a streaming platform. It's a mission. MENNO helps kids and families experience Jesus every day on and off screens. It's the number one source of Christian content for kids and it makes it super easy and honestly super fun for families to grow and faith together. They've got hundreds of shows designed to spark kids' imaginations while supporting spiritual growth. 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That's qince.com slash rbg for free shipping and 365 day returns quints.com slash rbg. We would say today more than ever in 33 years of counseling kids that kids need belonging and connection desperately in real time you guys. Kids are more connected digitally than ever but loneliness and disconnection are surging especially for adolescents and young adults and belonging is the antidote. Some stats on that a 2025 hope lab survey of 13 to 24 year olds found that 61% said loneliness impacts their mental health and 35% said loneliness actually disrupts their daily lives you guys. 2024 American Psychiatric Association poll reported that about one in three Americans feel lonely at least weekly with young adults 18 to 34 most likely to say they feel lonely every day or several times a week. Gallup data from 23 to 2024 says 25% of US men ages 15 to 34 felt lonely a lot of the previous day higher than the national average and higher than young women. Younger US men are among the loneliest in the western world. I believe it. Yes young people ages 15 to 29 are spending about 45% more time physically alone than they did in 2010. Wow. All that is true and what we see in our counseling offices on a daily basis and you all again we've got to do something about these things we got to help. So how it shows up in kids worlds. Kids are more focused on followers than community and don't understand the difference between the two. They feel like I know a lot of people but I don't have a lot of people. Kids just don't have a place they feel like they fit. We're seeing more anxiety depression and the idea of no one gets me even when surrounded by people and kids are bouncing from group to group and trying on different identities for a sense of acceptance. So here are three things we would recommend that you try at home. Number one prioritize a few deep connections with your kids over shallow ones. Help kids invest in one to two safe friends. A small group. A team. A church group rather than trying to keep up with everybody because that is certainly what's happening on screens and Snapchat streaks and all of those things. Number two make home a belonging place. Create rituals. Friday pizza, family game night. We've talked before about how some of the parents that we love have walks and talks where they just regularly go for walks with the dog if they have a dog. Maybe they walk the cat, maybe they walk the ferret whatever it is. And have conversations around talking at a mom in a store yesterday. Tell me those are her best conversations. But basically those regular things we do with kids remind them that this is your safe place and you matter here. And I have had so many kids over the years say to me school is not safe for me anymore. I certainly need home to feel like that. And so what can we do to to bring that more out in the forefront? And number three, I want to talk explicitly with kids about friendship health because sometimes I don't think we do that and teach them to ask themselves questions like how do I feel about myself when I'm with this friend? Belonging should feel like being more of yourself, not less. That's something we want to say over and over to kids. It's so good. Talk about the last one. All right. Last one, we're going to go back and forth. Kids need practice in real time. Yes, they do. The old version of FaceTime, not the new version. So social skills are not learned in theory. They're learned in practice on the playground at the lunch table in the car pool. Argument. Yes, working through conflict. Yes. It's such a valuable and necessary skill set. Our kids need more reps in real time situations, not just more content about social skills. You want to share some data? Yes. A 2023 Gallup survey found that the average American teen spends about 4.8 hours a day on social media, time that often replaces in person real time interaction. Pediatric and developmental experts consistently warn, as you all know, that screen time pushes out face to face communication, outdoor play, and shared family activities, all of which are critical to social development. Recent research from the American Psychological Association suggests that excessive screen time is linked to emotional and behavioral problems in children. And those problems can drive even more screen time use, creating a vicious cycle. But on the positive side, large meta-analysis of school-based social-emotional learning programs show that when kids repeatedly practice skills like cooperation, problem solving, and conflict resolution in real time, y'all listen to this. They have better academic outcomes, social skills, behavior, and perceptions of safety and their climate at school. The research basically is really clear. When kids get to practice skills like sharing problem solving and empathy in real moments with real people, they do better academically, socially, and emotionally. Practice really does make progress. And news flash, you all, we are about to release an episode with one of the world's leading experts on social-emotional learning in schools, Dr. Mark Brackett. We're so excited about this conversation. And guess what? We talk about, even if your school doesn't have these things in place where that's happening during the academic day, the ways that you can incorporate it at home. So we're going to have even more great ideas coming your way here soon. So let's talk about how it shows up in kids' world. So avoiding hard conversations by texting instead of talking. I have no idea how many conversations I've had. Hundreds with parents about that reality. And I even have a story in Raising Emotionally Strong Boys about a teenage boy who had a text exchange with his girlfriend's father that, let me just say, it did not go well. So practicing in real time is so important there. Melting down in conflict because they haven't practiced. Staying regulated and engaged and expecting relationships to feel like curated online experiences, easy to edit or exit. Okay, some things you can try at home. Number one, create low stakes practices. Let kids order their own food. Let them check in at the doctor's office. Let them talk to the coach about playing times. Coach them beforehand, help them know what to say and how to say it and debrief afterward. Second idea, resist rescuing too quickly. When kids hit a bump with friends instead of fixing it for them, ask, what are two ways you could approach this conversation? Role play their words. Number three, build tech training wheels. As kids earn more digital freedom, pair it with expectations for real world practice. So saying things like, for every hour on a screen, we want 30 minutes doing something interactive. Playing, talking in real time, being outside with somebody. Practice makes progress and we have got to lean in to practicing these ideas to help them with what they really do need in this world to navigate it. David, what a team we have that we get to call friends who help make this podcast possible. Chris Sterrett, our engineer, our management team at KCH. We are thrilled to be a part of the That Sounds Fun Network. Our music was created by the insanely talented Dave Haywood of Lady A. And if this podcast felt helpful to you, please consider subscribing, liking, sharing all the things. We are grateful for you and cheering you on always.