The Making of Malcolm X

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Like so many black men in America, his last name, Little, was not really his. That arbitrary surname had traveled down through generations, through at least a century of American history, until it rested on him. Malcolm Little. Now, under the spiritual guidance of the nation of Islam, he had decided to part ways with that identity, to shed that name, and claim a new one that represented freedom, strength, autonomy. Finishing the letter, he signed off to his brother, and for the first time, added the new signature that would, in coming years, become famous the world over. Malcolm X. Hello, American history hit listeners. I'm Don Wildman, your host. Thanks for punching us up. Here in the US, as I speak, we're in the second half of Black History Month, 2026, and fittingly, we explore today the life and ideas of one of America's most compelling critics, thinkers, and orders. A man, unflinching in his willingness to confront the racial inequities of this nation, forthrightly, on his own terms at a time when racist laws and policies were woven into the fabric of American life. Malcolm X spoke truth to power, plainly, and without apology in the heady days of the civil rights movement, delivering a message that made many people of this country very uncomfortable. But he did it with such perceptive intelligence and charisma that even now, more than 60 years after his passing, his undeniable presence endures. We discuss this consequential figure with Professor Clarence Lang. The Susan Welch Dean of the College of the Liberal Arts at Penn State University and a professor of African American Studies, historian of Black urban history, and social movements, and author of several acclaimed books examining race, power, and protest in 20th century America. Professor Lang, Clarence, Gladden Bulkimew. Thank you for having me, Don. Good to be here. Before we turn to the formative events of his early life, let's define the movement in which Malcolm X will come to play such a major role. I think it will help the audience to sort of back up for a moment and understand this. Black nationalism was an international movement of the early 20th century that continues on today, really. But a rose in response to, of course, centuries of degradation felt by black populations around the world, the result of colonialism, slavery, black exploitation. How had black nationalism in America addressed those issues differently than elsewhere? Well, thank you for that question because it gives me an opportunity to say that black nationalism, as a string of thought, predates the 20th century. It goes back well into the 19th century, somewhat argue, even earlier. And as a constellation of ideas, black nationalism cohered around the idea of black people as being a people. They were not just simply, so to speak, Americans of a darker hue, even before that concept existed, that they were the people that had their right to sovereignty, to self-determination. And the focus was on the creation of independent autonomous institutions to serve and advance their interests. So it's a long-standing theme. And certainly in the 20th century, that tradition endured, for example, in the work of individuals like Marcus Garvey, founder of the Universal Negro Improvement Association, a Caribbean immigrant who helped to codify and modernize the black nationalist tradition in the beginning of the 20th century. But it goes back much further than that. And it was one of, we could say, two broad responses collectively by black people in response to their conditions in North America or the United States, being more specific. So there's one tradition of black people lobbying, struggling to be part of this nation, as such, to be full citizens, to have full participation in rights, citizenship, and so forth. And that's a long-standing tradition of itself. But you also have this long-standing black nationalist tradition, not always antithetical to those goals, was very much fixated on black people, building based on their own resources and interests, pursuing their interests as a corporate collective sovereign group, including, right, and some iterations of black nationalism demands for land-based independence. So it could take a number of different forms, and so that's one particular trend. And, you know, sometimes they could be very separate and distinct, and sometimes those traditions overlap, but they are very particular. Yeah, it's a fascinating time, because, I mean, this is all against the backdrop, of course, of segregation and Jim Crow, as far as the American story goes in the first half of the 20th century. It's about asserting, as you say, self-determination, politically, economically, culturally, outside the constraints, necessarily, of white dominated society, fair to say. That's correct. And it's important to me to sketch this, because there's a lot of people that don't understand how much was happening in this world, certainly in those decades among black communities, spurred on by the Great Migration, which was happening around the World War I time frame, and before that, this enormous amount of migration northward. And as families took root in these new places, and there's generations happening, a new sensibility was happening in American black communities, as far as how do we move onward. And there was kind of a split. There was sort of a fork in the road between the Booker 2 Washington School of Thinking, where you kind of assimilate or accommodate versus reforming the world that you're in. Am I correct in how I'm framing this? Yes, so certainly the broad strokes are absolutely correct, and I appreciate that you have given me an opportunity to talk a little bit more about the specific experiences that black people were encountering in the late 19th and early 20th century. There had been a major civil war around the issue of slavery. Slavery had been destroyed as a consequence of that war based on the self-activity of black people themselves, in the context of that war. There was a period, several decades of reform, interracial reform, known as reconstruction, and that particular project whereby black people brought into citizenship, were holding elected office, was over time, certainly by the 1880s, had been largely dismantled due to a vigorous counter-revolution if you will, a reaction to reconstruction. And that's destroyed, and out of the ashes grows a new system of racial domination that we can refer to as segregation, or Jim Crow, or Jim Crow segregation, where by black people were no longer in a legal sense slaves, but their conditions economically and politically were essentially as non-citizens. And so this is the really important fork in the road, where there are some activists who argue for the need to lobby to restore and even expand those rights. And then there were others who argue the best thing that black people can do under these circumstances is think about how we build on our own internal resources to serve our particular needs. And that was more of the, if you will, the black nationalist standpoint. Now, you mentioned Booker T. Washington in this, and he's a very interesting figure, because in many respects, some of his foundational ideas were very influential, and paralleled a number of black nationalist ideas. The idea that you built separate and distinct autonomous institutions outside of the purview of white control and domination. And of course, he had his detractors because there were some people who argued, well, if the state does not recognize your rights as a citizen, then you can build businesses, acquire property, and what have you, but how do you protect and maintain it if you're not considered a legal citizen? So there were contradictions, but in fact, Booker T. Washington had an influence on Garvey. In fact, when Marcus Garvey came to the United States, he had wanted to meet Booker T. Washington, but by that time Washington had died. So can we say that Booker T. Washington was a black nationalist? Perhaps not, but some of his ideas were very foundational to black nationalist thought in the 20th century, certainly. As we speak about Malcolm X, there is an enormous context to Malcolm X. And that is what is so remarkable about him, how he distinguishes his argument from what is so rich and layered in his youth, even with his own father, who was a Garvey item self, right? His father and his mother were both Garvey organizers. Yeah. So let's talk about his early life. And we will probably circle back to a lot of this kind of talk just so you just so the audience understands this. Malcolm X comes along fourth of seven children, born May 19 1925, Malcolm little in Omaha, Nebraska. His father was Earl Little, originally of Georgia, mother Louise from the Caribbean Island of Grenada. They had met in Montreal. This is a fascinating chapter. I mean, I can't tell you I've course read so much earlier in my life as part of history classes and so forth, but coming back to it as an older man, it is so interesting to see the paths of so much going on that laid the groundwork for experiences we all had, you know, inside and outside that world in the 20th century, if you were lucky enough to be this old. Earl Little was a Baptist lay preacher, leader of the Universal Negro Improvement Association, UNIA. There was a chapter in Omaha. So Malcolm is surrounded by these ideas of Garveyism as a youngster. And when he's six, the littles moved to Lansing, Michigan. And in the years following, run into that, which so many black families ran into in those days, the housing restrictions imposed upon them by municipalities in the north. Can you explain how these experiences affected the family and Malcolm? Yeah, thank you for that question. So, you know, first and foremost, because of Earl Little's occupation as an itinerant preacher and organizer of the UNIA, the family's life was a itinerant. And so they moved around a bit. And I should mention that Malcolm's mother, we don't talk about this enough Louise Little was also involved with the UNIA was an active member and organizer is as well. And as a result of their activities, very open political organizing, they were often targeted by local white supremacists. So they moved around a bit. In fact, one of Malcolm's earliest memories was of a bombing that occurred at his at his home where the family had to to evacuate or that was one episode, another episode, you know, he talks about in his autobiography, his mom being pregnant. Nightriders show up to the home, they're looking for Earl Little, and she's able to persuade them to leave by virtue of her being visibly pregnant and the like. So they lived very much on a knife's edge. And you know, not only did they move around, but certainly when they ended up settling in a Lansing, Michigan area, rather than submit to segregated housing in that community, they built their own home on the outskirts of that town. And so they lived a bit of a rural experience. They had a rural lifestyle. It was often hand to mouth. But within that, they practiced a great deal of self-reliance. So they grew a lot of their food. Their mom was very strict about their diet and was was resistant to their eating pork, even though their father, Earl Little, was comfortable with that. But it was all part of trying to practice under duress self-reliance in the ways that they could. And that was very hard on the family. There was domestic abuse that occurred driven in part by the pressures they faced externally. And certainly in the early 1930s during the Depression, Malcolm's father died under very suspicious circumstances. Malcolm, you know, asserts that his father was killed by local nightwriters, clan members, and a like. And that's certainly within the realm of possibility that was not the official finding. But that certainly created the context that intensified the economic and social pressures on the family. Because here you have now Louise Little trying to feed a growing family. She ended up having another child with another gentleman who subsequently abandoned the family. So we're talking about a children at that point. And she was very prideful, or at least she's described that way. But she at a certain point state authorities were able to intervene, take most of the children, put them into false to care. She herself was committed to a mental facility where she stayed for the greater part of her life well into the 1950s or thereabouts. So the family was broken up over that and Malcolm ended up in false to care. And that intensified the instability of the life that he was experiencing as a young boy. All of this before he is 10 years old, death of his father, the breaking up the family, a lot of moving around all against a very proud story of resistance and understanding this world through the eyes of self-determination and so forth. And that's an incredible, what a brew, what a cauldron to grow up in. His response to this, we will talk about in a moment, but I want to circle back to more discussion about what we were saying before because we're going to run into something called the Nation of Islam. And I want to understand we're in Michigan at this point in his childhood and Michigan is so much of what's going on in this world for Black America. A Detroit is such a big center of all of this. And at this time, there is a movement towards the creation of this element of Black nationalism. Can you describe how this happens? Yeah, thank you for that question. It's interesting that the 1930s is a period where a lot of, the 1920s, but certainly we see a proliferation in the 1930s of a number of small Black nationalist sects or organizations. The Nation of Islam was one of them. Nation of Islam was not the only one it was formed in early 1930s in Detroit, Michigan. To some extent, it was a reflection of the crisis of the Great Depression, this period of economic turmoil in crisis that sent a lot of people, certainly in Black communities, to what we might call millenarian religious and political organizations trying to make meaning out of the crisis this serious economic calamity. This occurred in white communities as well. So you have individuals like Father Kaufflin who are able to appeal to masses of people who are looking for leadership and guidance in this particular moment. So the Nation of Islam is one organization along the lines that that emerges from from that standpoint is led by an individual named Elijah Poole who becomes Elijah Muhammad, the messenger of Elijah himself. But it's a small tiny organization at this time. Malcolm's family at that moment doesn't have any interaction with the Nation of Islam, but these are parallel developments that are occurring as Black people are trying to figure out how to address defined meaning, defined direction, defined momentum movement for during the during the Depression. One of many manifestations. Yeah, and it's about turning the story over, flipping the story, if you will, about how Black and white America and Black and white people around the world have come to pass. I mean, there's a mythology involved, there's all kinds of stuff involved in this, but it's it's very definitely saying this is our time. The 20th century is when this comes to pass for 6,000 years, white people have been dominating this way. We let them do it essentially, and now the time has changed and we're going to deal with this now in a different sort of way. And out of this comes this form of Black nationalism, which is the Nation of Islam in the 20s and 30s. This is what Malcolm X will participate in for the rest of his life once he joins into this. But before that happens, we have a lot of events that happen otherwise, which really lay the groundwork for him out of this cauldron of a childhood and then teenage life. And his large family, which begins its own diaspora of sorts, Malcolm X ends up in trouble, which happens to so many kids of whoever they are, you know, out of such an unstable situation. He is a, I have to say at the top, I'm revisiting the autobiography of Malcolm X, you know, the Alex Haley book. Malcolm X, I said to my wife, incredibly charismatic man. The storytelling that comes out of his life in that book is remarkable. And the explanation of where it all fit for him, the detail of those first eight chapters is remarkable recall of so many different events that happened on, you know, as he was growing up. It's a rebellious childhood. He ends up committing petty crimes after being discouraged by a teacher that he wanted to be a lawyer. World War II comes along. He does not wish to fight. It's an interesting event. He decides to get himself declared mentally unfit. What a remarkable human being and resourceful person we're talking about, even against the odds in which he sets up for himself, right? That's correct. And, you know, I mean, to take even a step backwards, you know, as a, what we would call a pre adolescent and early adolescent, even with all of the hardship he had experienced, there had been the possibility of maybe a different life path for him. So he ended up in a school where he was very popular. He was an athlete. He was Vodaclash president. He enjoyed school. He was in the sense, what we might call an integrated environment. And so, but he has this encounter of one of his teachers who he tended to think of as a good person and his teacher asked him what his aspirations were. And he hadn't thought much about it, but he sort of the first thing that came to his mind was being a lawyer and his teacher, this person who he thought he could trust that he thought he knew basically told him that his goals were not realistic for a black person. Of course, he didn't use the word black and that he should think about a more practical life course that would involve working with with his hands. And so here you have this this individual who could see a broad horizon of possibilities and that was extinguished in his own telling in that particular moment. So he became incorrigible in school. He got involved in and petty crimes. And then there you know, there was the possibility of his going to reform school and there was another family that intervened. But his trust, and this is why in part he was so rabbit, a critic of racial integration, because he had himself experienced it and saw the flaws, but the trust that he had in those interactions with a white majority were pretty much dashed. And so he became from that standpoint cynical. And you know, I'm making a long story short, right? But that led to his drift into petty hustling, the idea that there was not a legitimate path for him to succeed. And so better to live by one's wits, you know, by being crafty, cagey, you might say. And that set him on a course to become a Detroit Red, right? So you know, Malcolm Little gives birth to Detroit Red, the hustler. And first in Boston, where he ended up moving to live with his older half sister and then Detroit Red in Harlem, New York as well. Again, I'm condensing a lot of information here because they're dynamics with his half sister who was an important influence on his life, who was trying to keep him on a straight and narrow as well. But his imagination had moved in a very different direction. And so did his activities. The modern game. Beautiful, fast, clinical. So why almost betting up stuck in 2005? The miracle in Istanbul over, theory no longer scary, unbelievable Jeff, no more. It's time for change. Bet 10 pounds and get 30 pounds in free bets. We're not your granddad's bookie. Search midnight sports and make the move to midnight. New customers only, restrictions and TNC's apply, 18 plus, big umbrella wear dot org. Eighth clip, eight, eight, eight, eight, eight, eight, eight, eight. Bordable presents Heath Cliff, a new original drama inspired by Emily Brontzies, Wolverine Heights. I do not know what life is without Kathy. Before his descent into monstrous revenge, there were three missing years, a time of possibility, freedom and a different kind of love. Escape this story. She has trapped you in. Starring Darryl McCormack as Heath Cliff. Listen now, only unordable. Say audible.co.uk for terms. In a world where swords were sharp. And hygiene was actually probably better than you think it is. Two fearless historians. Me, Matt Lewis. And me, Dr. Elinor Yamauga. I've had first into the mud, blood and very strange customs of the Middle Ages. So for plagues, crusades and Viking raids and plenty of other things that don't rhyme, subscribe to Gone Medieval from History Hit wherever you get your podcasts. But I caution the audience to not gloss over these events because when you read these events in more detail, especially through the autobiography, you get such a amount of self-examination, self-awareness, which is really amazing. One of those crimes which he commits in the mid-40s, Landzmann Prison in Massachusetts for robbery, it is there in that time frame when we're talking about 1946 to 1952, although he's originally sentenced for a much longer period as I understand it. Part of the reason that's shorter is because there's a great transformation in this man in that time frame. And this is where he runs into or encounters the nation of Islam. Can you explain that that development? That's correct. So while in prison, he maintains communication with his siblings. I should mention that. So even though the family has broken apart and he describes the family's being broken, the family ties were very strong between him and his siblings. And so he hears from a couple of relatives who are mentioning that they've joined this organization, the lost found nation of Islam, and that organization holds the key to him getting out of prison. And of course, that gets his attention initially. Oh, well, you're going to get me out of prison. What does that look like? And then it turns into an education about the teachings of the Elijah Muhammad. This doesn't happen overnight, but he becomes a convert. He begins to correspond himself personally with Elijah Muhammad. And I should add here that his half sister is really important because when he's initially sentenced and imprisoned, it's in one of the worst prisons in Massachusetts. But his half sister, who's part of, if you will, the black aristocracy or the black elite in Boston has some connections and helps him get transferred to a better facility where among other things, there's this amazing library that's been donated there. And so in the context of his religious conversion, he is also at the same time devoting himself actively in the way that he had in the sense he was an early adolescent to a life of the mind, to reading about history, political theory, what have you. He joins the debate team. He becomes a skilled orator. You mentioned this earlier. Well, that's where those formative experiences come from. And so it's those kind of connections thanks to his half sister. And then of course, his eventual conversion, which in the context of the politics of the prison actually make him more dangerous rather than less dangerous because he's initially an incorrigible prisoner. He's called Satan because of how he interacts with other inmates and how he interacts with the prison guards and the staff. But his commitment to a life of a mind and then his commitment to Islam as practiced by the nation of Islam have a salutary effect. At some extent, they want to get rid of him because he becomes a threat in terms of being able to organize other prisoners who he begins to try and convert so on and so forth. And so he has paroled in 1952 and begins his career in a nation of Islam. Now, Don, if I may, I'd like to back up and make this point because I think we do have to take seriously the experiences that he had as a small time hustler in terms of how that helps to seed the soil for the kind of political organizer he becomes. One of the things that's most remarkable about the autobiography that you have to read it a couple of times to get this is that Malcolm pretty much did every kind of work that a black male of his age in generation would have done. So he shines shoes. He sold sandwiches on a train. He was a Pullman Porter. And he engaged in petty crimes, right? Hustling, right? Robbery and what have you? And so that gave him in a sense a broad palette of experience that allowed him to relate to a broad swath of black urban America, many of whom had had similar experiences as well, including the experience of being incarcerated. He had a set of experiences that grounded him in the lives and experiences of the black working class majority in the United States. And that served him well as an organizer because he could then go into alleys to pull halls. He could speak among folks that more respectable leaders could not make the same connections with interesting. And remember by the time I just did a little arithmetic here by the time we're talking about, you know, by the time he's out of prison, he's only 21 years old. I mean, that's very young. He's a very young man we're talking about. This has been a teenager who's been going through all of this. And by the time he realizes, and it's up, all of us realize ourselves in his early 20s, we mentioned that it begins very small back in the 20s, the nation of Islam, but it has grown in leaps and bounds by the time he's interested and reaches out. By the way, this happens in a fascinating way. He writes a letter from that third prison where he's undergoing a lot of this transformation and study. He writes a letter to Elijah Muhammad explaining what has happened to him and he gets a letter back with a $5 bill in it, inviting him to come and be a part of this, right? Yeah, that's correct. Well, here's the thing that, you know, he's perroled in 1952. At the time, the nation of Islam is still a very small organization. We should be clear about that. But Malcolm, he commits to his work in the nation of Islam with the same level focus and energy that he had committed to his studies. And in fact, he had committed to his previous life of crime. And he becomes a tireless organizer. He goes around helping to rebuild, to revitalize. In some cases, creating new temples. And in the short period of time, this small, largely unknown organization. And he helps to make it body end of that decade, a major force within black America, ideologically and politically. So that even individuals who are not interested in joining the nation of Islam because of the strict dietary rules of comportment and dress cannot see themselves joining, were nevertheless attracted to Malcolm and his teachings on behalf of the nation's of Islam and Elijah Muhammad. This gets the attention of national media. So there's a major television program hosted by Mike Wallace. The hate that hate produced is what is called that helps to introduce the nation of Islam to a broad national audience. And in that context, that Malcolm begins to become a national spokesman and figure and is eventually named a national spokesman for the nation of Islam. He has situated at the very important temple number seven in Harlem. Right. And that's done intentionally because Elijah Muhammad realizes, recognizes the skills, right, that tireless organizing that Malcolm has committed himself to organizing the group. Clarence, explain to me the choice of the name Malcolm X. Where does that come from? And what is that tradition? That's something within the nation of Islam? Is that correct? Thank you for that question. So part of the worldview of the nation of Islam was that they were basically lost in the wilderness without a name in a sense. And so individuals use X, right, rather than they're given surnames, right, the argument being that those were not native natural to them, right, and that that represented a break from the past that could not be recovered. And so the X was used as a representative, as a signifier of the unknown, of that unknown past, right. And so, and probably so. And so Malcolm, like any other individual male or female who joined the nation of Islam, at a certain point in your conversion, in your recruitment, you took on X as your surname. Hence Malcolm does that. Yeah. And Elijah Muhammad we're talking about was formerly Elijah Poole. This is as far as what is happening within this organization of part of self-determination aspect of this. And cultural revitalization, right, and discovery. Yeah. The nation of Islam by the time you're talking about him becoming, I just want to review, as he becomes this charismatic leader serving as he would say Elijah Muhammad, opening new temples, recruiting new members to the nation of Islam. This organization grows considerably. At some point, I guess at its peak, it was some 500,000 members. Is that true? You would get different responses to that. Some would say 2000, some would say 5000. We can safely say thousands. Yeah, thousands and thousands of people. And as you say media attention begins to is paid and it's a major media of attention. And and there becomes this new story of this force of nature, which is this Malcolm X who is at the front of all of this. At the core of his message is the idea that black identity must find independence. Followers are encouraged to defend themselves by any means necessary. I mean, this is where I mentioned at the top made a lot of people uncomfortable because in his direct forthright nature, he was calling out things that are obvious to us today. But at the time, we're not and they were very uncomfortable for a lot of people and he became a very dangerous figure in many white American's eyes. That's correct. And I think that, you know, one point to of course, to help establish concepts during the 40s, during the 1950s, while Malcolm has incarcerated and when he's has been released from prison and is slowly growing in the nation of Islam during that period of time, a major post-war war to civil rights movement is growing and developing. Yes, it becomes identified with Martin Luther King Jr. But of course, he's not the only individual who's leading participating in that. Obviously, but it becomes it becomes largely associated with him after the Montgomery bus boycott in 1955. So there's a spirit of racial reform that's spreading. Black people are leaving the charge of finishing the work of reconstruction. Right? So this is in some ways the unfinished business of the of the late 19th century after the Civil War. And that movement is largely guided by strategically, if not always philosophically, the notion of nonviolent mass direct action. And so that's at his high tide and Malcolm, as he emerges as a national figure, becomes intentionally and otherwise, right? A bit of a foil to the so-called nonviolent civil rights movement. And so he does two things in this context. He's one speaking very boldly in a very unapologetic way against the contradictions of racism, white racism in the United States. And in doing so, he's also positioning himself as a critic of the mainstream ideas of the civil rights movement, right? A movement that's rooted in notions of liberal integrationism, right? Which is very different from the standpoint that he's coming from as a black nationalist, where the idea is not to integrate the ideas for black people to build their own sources of institutional strength and collective interest, right? Apart from that. So he becomes a foil. That's fueled in great deal by the media, right? Because he and Marlith the King, during a very easy to kind of situate as contrast, but it also grows out of the fact that there are some fundamental political differences in terms of the political perspective that he's coming from. And what at the time, at least, was the mainstream ethos of the civil rights movement. Right, exactly. I mean, it is, in part, the language he uses. He labels white people as evil and black people superior to white people. And he's really drawing this line that is very bold and very distinguished. But I hastened to add, he is undeniably sophisticated, intelligent, humorous, even at the time when he was supposedly scaring, this guy is a compelling individual. And that's what you see when you watch anything, you can watch and I invite people to do that. He's amazing human being and you know that when he walks in the room. He's very quick with it. And this is in part, so that if you will, the education that he got in prison in debate, right, or and this is the sort of the background that's coming, even from his hustling days, where you had to be quick on your feet in terms of action and speech, because things could happen to you. But I would like to make this point, right. So even though he's a critic of the mainstream civil rights movement, there are some inconveniences that he's encountering. So because he's such a tireless organizer and because he's having an impact, well beyond the membership of the nation of Islam, Malcolm is interacting with other Black activists who are not in the nation of Islam, who do not accept the teachings of the nation of Islam, who look at scants at this world view of the nation of Islam that sees white people as literal devils, right, whose time is going to come to an end due to Allah's intervention that is this whole cosmology that's off putting to a lot of people, but people enjoy working with Malcolm because he's sincere, he's committed, he's dedicated to improving the lot of Black people. And those individuals have an impact on Malcolm as well. So he's working with individuals like Adam Clayton Powell, right, the congressman, people who are well outside of the vein of the nation of Islam and even Black nationalism. And they're pushing him too. And one of the things that he starts to recognize and appreciate that even though he opposes the dominant ideology of the civil rights movement, i.e. liberal integrationism, he has to respect the fact that those activists are putting themselves on the line to advance the interest of Black people in ways that the nation of Islam is not because the nation of Islam stance is not to engage politically. And so Malcolm becomes increasingly frustrated with that contradiction, right, that he's critical of the Martin Luther King juniors, the A-Philip Randolph's, but they are actually on the front lines and the nation of Islam is at a distance criticizing from the sidelines. And in fact, there's one individual I think it was James Farmer, may have been, I could be wrong, who calls Malcolm out at one point and says, you know, all this talk is good and well, but what is the nation of Islam doing in terms of addressing these situations that the other of us are putting our lives literally on the line to pursue. And so that begins to become abrasive and his efforts to try and move the nation of Islam into more upfront political activism is constantly dashed, right. And at the same time, he's becoming concerned about signs of corruption among the uppermost leadership because he lives of Malcolm himself lives a very Spartan in his family Spartan lifestyle. He marries Betty X in 1958. They have children should mention that. So he has a family at a certain point. They live a very plain existence, but there are other folks who are living very lavishly due to the growth of the nation of Islam. And then of course, he hears about the news of Elijah Muhammad, fathering some children outside of his marriage. And so those things converge to create a chasm between him and a leadership of the nation of Islam, especially Elijah Muhammad. But I want to make the point that the real driver of difference is the nation of Islam's distance from secular political activity. I see. Interesting. Yes. This is a big break for him. You know, the thing with Malcolm X's life is all happens in such a compressed way. I mean, things when you look back on it, it seems like it just was we're talking about a decades worth of time here, you know, from complete conversion to huge national leadership to a break with that, you know, organization which he has developed so much. And now, you know, there are only a few years left to his left of his life. It's amazing. Can I make this point though, Don, before you ask the next question? I feel like I want to say that when Malcolm makes the comment about the assassination of President John F. Kennedy in November of 1963, that's the incident where he is officially silenced by the nation of Islam and shortly thereafter, he splits. But I want to be clear that what Malcolm said about Kennedy's assassination was was nothing out of step with the preachings of the nation of Islam, right? So he he considered it an indication of chickens coming home the roots that the violence that had been perpetrated by the United States against his black population in the broad and Vietnam and other the Congo and other places had just come back to the United States. But that was a pretext for the leadership in the nation of Islam to put him on the sidelines given the other differences that had emerged between Malcolm and the nation of Islam leadership. So it was a pretext rather than the thing itself. The Modern Game. Beautiful, fast, clinical. So why almost betting at stuck in 2005? The miracle in Istanbul, over, theory, no longer scary, unbelievable Jeff, no more. It's time for change. Bit 10 pounds and get 30 pounds in free bets. We're not your grandad's bookie. Search midnight sports and make the move to midnight. New customers only, restrictions and TNC's apply. 18 plus. Be gamble aware dot org. In a world where swords were sharp. And hygiene was actually probably better than you think it is. Two fearless historians. Me, Matt Lewis. And me, Dr. Eleanor Yamagah. Dive head first into the mud, blood and very strange customs of the Middle Ages. So for plagues, crusades and Viking raids and plenty of other things that don't rhyme, subscribe to gone medieval from history hit wherever you get your podcasts. Is it a direct conflict between Elijah Muhammad and him? Increasingly yes. Yes. Okay. During this time, he decides to found his own version of this, right? He breaks away completely and creates his own organization called the Muslim mosque. Incorporated. Is that right? Incorporated. That's correct. Yeah. This is March of 1964 when he leaves the nation of Islam and creates this new organization, which of course would be a major threat. You have their engine of national recruitment. This incredibly compelling man still very young in his 30s, representing a brand new idea in the black nationalist movement. Of course, this is going to raise hackles, I suppose. The next month, 1964, April 1964, he performs a Hajj pilgrimage to Mecca. And he converts to Orthodox Sunni Islam. All of these things are very, very, head-e-ideas to many people to consider. But this is where this man is at at this point. And he also creates alongside of that a very important but short-lived organization, the organization of Afro-American unity. And a model for him is the organization of African unity. And the idea is that this would be a place that would bring together black activists across ideological trends and persuasions. And so black nationalist integration is the idea is that this would be a, if you will, a black political united front. And of course, it's short-lived. That project is aborted by his assassination in February of 1965. But that is also perceived as a challenge to the leadership of Elijah Muhammad as well. And in the context of creating that organization, and this is an important point, Malcolm begins to break from the racialist, if you will, cosmology of the nation of Islam. And he moves to a different understanding about race and about the prospects for change. And in fact, the prospects of being able to work. In meaningful ways with white activists. Malcolm remains a black nationalist. I want to be clear about that. But his basis of critique becomes less about this cosmology that he had inherited from the nation of Islam, of white people being devils. Right? So that transformation occurs at that particular level, even though he remains a black nationalist. But as he becomes an orthodox Muslim, a lot of those ideas that he had espoused and it had, he has to dispense with. Right? And he has to deal with the issues of white supremacy and racism as political questions, rather than issues grounded in some kind of God-given or created nature that groups of people had. If that makes sense. Of course. And it was these moves that he was making in the 64 into 65 period that really put him in danger. This is what starts a real controversy that people start sending death threats and all the rest of it. Did he know where those threats were coming from? Well, if we take him at his word, he certainly saw that the threats were a consequence of his separation from the nation of Islam. And in fact, in the Muhammad speaks, there was very incendiary overheated language about the need, how do you deal with heretics? There's only one way, right? And so if you think about it, the fact that, if you accept the premise that Elijah Muhammad was indeed the messenger of Allah to a break from the messenger of Allah is to break with Allah himself. And that is a very high crime. And so now, you know, we can certainly appreciate the fact that that split served interest well beyond the nation of Islam. So there were a number of groups, power in the United States that stood to benefit from Malcolm being liquidated, right? Whether through assassination or otherwise. But, you know, it would be dishonest to deny that it was the split with the nation of Islam that really fueled the threats that began to mount on his life. And of course, there's been a lot of conversation about the individuals who were arrested, the gunmen who were arrested for shooting Malcolm, who were members of the nation of Islam, whether they were the ones who committed the murder, you know, who actually killed Malcolm. But I think there's no denying that Malcolm's death certainly serve the interests of a set of leaders in the nation of Islam, many of whom were jealous of Malcolm even when he was national spokesman. But it also served interest outside of the nation of Islam if we think about the federal bureau of investigation, authorities in New York, so on and so forth. So there were a lot of people who stood to gain. And that's where I land, rather than getting caught up in, who actually killed Malcolm in for what reasons, who gained from it and who helped to create the context for his murder to be possible. And that certainly included the nation of Islam, but it was not just the nation of Islam. We'll just go through those events in detail in a moment. But I just want to really emphasize the change in his thinking that it happened at this point. A much more universalist idea was what was behind the Muslim mosque organization, right? Can you define that more explain where he had landed as a man? Because certainly when you see the movies, there's a kind of a very general idea there. And it seems in Malcolm's case that that would be very specific and very certain. Yeah. And I'll go back to the point that Malcolm died of a black nationalist. And we've talked about what the premises of that were. So he did not stray from that. I think what we saw based on the interactions that he had increasingly with a broad set of thinkers and other political leaders, if you will, abroading of his thinking about who were potential allies, who were partners, not just within the black community, but also external to the black community, even though he rooted himself fundamentally in the institutions of black community and wanting to build and expand those. And so Muslim mosque incorporated it was an effort to continue his commitment and the commitment and others to Islam, but through more conventional, inclusive means. And we can't say much more beyond that because much like the organization of Afro-American unity, they both have very short lived existences, right? But the trajectory was toward a more capacious approach to political organizing and partnership. That trajectory was clear. Yeah. The tragedy, of course, is a man and a husband and father dies, but it's also that this amazing intellect and this amazing spirit had arrived at a place which was unique and no telling where that would have led to. You know, this man is 39 when he dies in very young. Yeah. Incredible, incredible thing now that I'm far beyond that. Me too. February 21st, 1965 at the Audemann Ballroom, which you can still visit here in New York area where I live. It's in Washington Heights. He has gunned down and there are three members of the nation of Islam who are arrested for this crime, but boy, are there theories on how that really came to pass and and and worth investigating. The autobiography of Malcolm X is published in 1965, which is a remarkable timing of that. Distributes widely. He is, it really makes him out to be quite quite a pop hero. I remember the book around when I was young, all my sisters reading it in high school. But after this passes, there's an interesting shift there as well. The nation of Islam becomes increasingly fractured after his death, but that's probably in opposition or at least parallel with the rise of the successes of Martin Luther King's movement, the civil rights movement, right? Sure. I mean, there are internal dynamics that are occurring, but then there are also other organizations in the late 1960s and into the early 1970s that are modeled on precepts similar and different precepts of black nationalism that emerge. And so there's a proliferation of organizations that that occur after Malcolm's death that compete with the nation of Islam. And after a fashion, right? Or at least parallel that. And I think that that speaks to the fact that yes, he's assassinated. So his own particular political project is cut short, but the ideas endure in different form. And so Malcolm becomes an inspiration for a number of organizations that he emerged. The black pants organization, the black Panther Party for self-defense, the Congress of African peoples, the National Black Political Assembly, the African Liberation Support Committee. There are tons of organizations and that's not even counting local organizations that emerge that are inspired by that. And so one of the things that Malcolm does, he's successful at doing. In the same way that Garvey before him had done earlier in the 20th century, is that he's able to transmit a black nationalist tradition to younger activists who came of age in the 1960s. So that's a really important thing that he does. And at the same time, he actually helps to challenge younger activists to challenge the movement itself to transcend purely domestic concerns. So you mentioned his travels abroad, right? But he pressed activists to think about the civil rights movement as not just simply a civil rights movement because civil rights is something that a society can give or withhold, but that it was part of a broader human rights movement, particularly among emerging independent people of color globally. And that black people in the United States should see themselves as part of that and not necessarily a minority in the United States. And so those were really important interventions that he helped that he made that helped to set the template politically. What a lot of black organizing looks like in the late 1960s and into the 1970s and later. And then lastly, I do want to, you know, this point about he is certainly someone who speaks to the broadest numbers of black people at the grassroots that working class majority because his experiences were very much exemplary of those experiences. Yes. And his message comes outside the traditional American black church, which Martin Luther King is building his movement from, of course. That's such an interesting parallel. I'll wrap up with this question. In your accomplished career, Malcolm extolives for you, doesn't he? He does indeed. Yeah. And I'll just say it this way that if we think about the political situation in the United States today, my sense is that we will see a very strong resurgence in black nationalist ideas. We've seen some aspects of that already. But I think in these moments of crisis economically, politically and otherwise, that becomes a harbor for large numbers of black people. And that's certainly certainly a long history of that. And so I think that it's a some extent Malcolm's ideas. As you said, more than 60 years after his death, still resonate. They certainly resonated with me as a 14 year old in the late 1980s who discovered the autobiography at the age of 14. And I'm not the last one who's had that experience. And so he speaks across these decades and we can anticipate that he will continue to do so. Which is why we're talking. I mean, in other words, there you go. I hope that the audience has taken away from this what a larger world he is even attached to. I mean, it's a really there's such a strong through line to all of this and such organized ideas behind black nationalism that he really sits on top of and interprets for a larger world. Thank you so much for this conversation. Professor Clarence Lang is the Susan Welch dean of the College of the Liberal Arts at Penn State University, Professor of American Studies, historian of black history and social movements, author of a number of publications. I mentioned I'll read a few titles, grassroots at the Kateway, class politics and black freedom struggle in St. Louis 1936 to 75, and black America in the shadow of the 60s notes on the civil rights movement neoliberalism and politics. I understand you're working on a new book about Malcolm X. Is that correct? I am. There's a lot of administrative work that gets in the way, but work is proceeding on that for sure. I look forward to seeing you. Thank you so much. Really nice to meet you. My pleasure. Thank you. Thanks for listening to American History Hit. You know, every week we release new episodes, two new episodes dropping Mondays and Thursdays. From mysterious missing colonies to powerful political movements to some of the biggest battles across the centuries, don't miss an episode. By hitting like and follow, you help us out, which is great, but you'll also be reminded when our shows are on. And while you're at it, please share with a friend. American History Hit, with me, Don Wildman. So grateful for your support. Thanks so much. In Istanbul, over. Tiary, no longer scary. Unbelievable Jeff, no more. It's time for change. Bit 10 pounds and get 30 pounds in free bets. We're not your granddad's bookie. Search Midnight Sports and make the move to Midnight. New customers only. Restrictions and TNC's apply. 18 plus. Be gamble aware dot org.