Get a Hobby, Be Happy with Jessica Williams

I'm doing a romcom right now that I think you'll be really excited about. It's like me and a shorter, a guy who's shorter than me. I love it. And I'm really excited. And I was like trying to tell him, I was like, look at Tom and Zendaya. And he's like, no, I'm not going to Google that. But I know for me, it's my most famous Tom and Zendaya. And I love looking at them walking around in London with their little dog. And he's a little short king and she's a tall queen and it just looks so right. It just looks so right. And it's like, why Hollywood? Why? We can do this. We can do this. This episode of IMO is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Howdy. Craig, Robinson. This is very comfortable. It looks like a pajama top. Well, that's what it's supposed to. It's fashion, as I say. Really? There's the look. It's the pajama look. No wonder kids are wearing pajamas to school. Who's giggling about pajamas? What? Crystal, it looks like a pajama top. And she said, well, it's so funny. And it's supposed to look like a pajama top. I'm just making an observation. You not knowing things about the world and fashion. I didn't know that you could wear a pajama top because I like my pajamas. I'm going to be wearing mine. It's not a pajama top. It just looks like it mimics a pajama. Mimics sort of the comfortable. But if it actually looks like a pajama top, why couldn't you wear a pajama top? You could. Some people do actually wear the pajama top as fashion. This just happens to be a blouse that is fashioned after pajamas. And there's also, now I don't know whether this had bottoms, but a look would be this exact same bottom matching the bottoms. Have you seen people walking around the airport like that? It's probably not their pajamas. I have learned something because I thought they were pajama. It could be a very high and expensive pantsuit. You wouldn't want to wear it to bed after you wore it around the airport. I just like this look because it's my look. Well, it's working for you. Let's get Jessica out here. She's my friend. I just met her. She's my friend. She's going to be nicer to you than I am. Her mom likes me. Oh my God. Her mom likes me though. She's going to be nice to me. I'm going to tell her mom. Oh my goodness. Let's do our official introduction. So we have today Jessica Williams, a two-time Emmy and critics choice nominated comedian, writer and performer who currently stars as Gabby in Apple TV's hit comedy series Shrinking, which I happen to have seen. In 2016, she co-launched a podcast Two Dope Queens, which became an HBO series in 2018 with a four-hour-long special. And if I remember correctly, you were on that. You were on that. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Just finish the introduction. So anyway, I'm going to do my podcast in 2016. Come on out, Jessica. Where do I go? Where do I go? Thank you. And then I was on The Daily Show. I was on The Daily Show. I was the youngest ever correspondent on that show for now. Yeah. I just take him so long to read. Hey, you. What's going on? I'm excited to remember we joked about this carpet on carpet. Yes, carpet on carpet. I was like, I'm going to have a big chair. It's getting in there. But once you get set, it's comfortable. It's not going anywhere. It's comfortable. I feel like I can just. Welcome. Thank you. Wait, you said you've actually seen our show. Do you not watch a lot of TV? No, I don't. He doesn't. It's hard for me to watch TV because I have four children, two are grown, two are in 16 and 14. So and I'm coaching their teams and I'm, you know, I'm, I'm life and understood. So I, I got, if I'm watching your show, you know, it must be good. Absolutely. I understand. Because you try not to be on the couch. No, cause I would be sound asleep. Totally. I get it. Watch all the stuff. She's like, you don't watch enough popular culture stuff. Yeah. I'm like, I'll be watching the inside of my eyelids. I know that's right. That's like the most dad old man thing. Midwest. Watching the inside of my eyelids. Because he is, he's a dad old man. I know. I know. I know. I know. He's in the quarter set. He's in the middle of his fashion stuff. Here's my take on what I just watched with you two. Okay. I was watching. I was like, wow, what an intro. Both of y'all looked, looked dope. Everything's working. You know, for the both. Thank you. So you, you know, I mean, he, of course he harped on the fact that your mother told you to say, hi, no, okay. Yes. Right. As she said, my mom said, obviously I didn't tell her until the last minute she was at my house just now. She was like, where are you going? I said, oh, I'm about to do IMO. And she went, she like walked across the living room to give me a hug and all this stuff. And then she was like, well, obviously, please tell Michelle I love her example. She said, I love her success. And I wish her all, I'm sending her all the love. And then don't forget Craig. She said, please don't forget Craig. Tell him I love him and all this stuff. And you know, she said, it's going to be easy. They're Midwest people. That's my mom. My family's from Ohio. So they're like, there is a difference. We were just in Ohio. Yeah. We were in the yellow springs, Ohio near Springfield and just, you know, Salta the Earth kind of thing. Friendly. Hey, how you doing? It's just great. Hey, how you doing is very nice. That doesn't happen. That doesn't happen as much as you think it would. Yeah, especially in LA. Totally. Hey, how you doing? Yeah. All right. First loaded question. Obviously, you're a pro at this. We're just catching, we're just starting out here. How we doing? Great. This is like lovely. It's like some lovely people here. You guys can see there's a timer. We've got this gorgeous color. It's in between a pink and an orange and this little brown. It's coral. It is coral. And there's coral. I mean, I love it. This is really nice. And you guys have a great banter. Yeah. I mean, it's been built up over the years. Many, many years. And everybody I talked to that's done this podcast loves doing it, which is a good sign. I wouldn't say that if it wasn't true. I would be like, I would just not say anything. You set a very good example. One of my first podcasts. No way. Was it? I wasn't, you know, when we weren't into the podcast thing, podcasting wasn't a thing when we were in the White House. I mean, we did, we sort of kept to trend when it came to communications, you know, but I don't remember ever going on a podcast when I was First Lady. Oh, we were totally honored. Like those insane. It was really cool. So doing you guys and we, you guys came to my office, which was so cool. Yeah. And incredibly impressed by the two of you. What made you want to do a podcast? Oh, got the, these people in this room. Yeah. They were like, you know what would be great for higher ground audio? It's like, if you did a podcast, totally. And then I was like, I don't know. And they were like, what if Craig did it with you? And then I was like, oh, all right. Yeah. So it's really a combination of them and him. Yeah. I have a craft room now in my house where I just do like crafting. You are a crafter. And so I am. Yeah. And sewing and yeah, it's like how I stay sane, but I have you guys say it and I just listen to you guys while I'm like sewing and crafting. Could you have to like, I was, you probably know, I got into my knitting phase. I didn't know that. It's like, well, during COVID. Yeah. Cool. All right. So it was one of these things. It's like, okay, we're going to be trapped in the house. We had the former president who believed in science. So we knew what was coming. You know, we would always be like, what do we have to do? And they were like, stop washing the vegetables. That's right. That doesn't, you know, so it, you know, he would talk to Fauci and really find out. Crazy to like listen to people who spend their whole lives studying something. Exactly. Exactly. So we were, you know, we understood what we needed to do. We knew that we would need to hunker down. So I just started ordering crafts and stuff like that, like paint brushes. And I saw like knitting needles. Okay. Let's get, you know, I used to crochet when I was little. So I got knitting needles and started learning the stitches. And before you know it, I made, then I made everything. Really? I mean, I made scarves and then I made pillows. I made pillows. Then I made it an assignment. Then I was like, everybody's getting knitted gifts for Christmas. So I made pillows and then I made a sweater. Then I started making hats and I've made mittens before. Yeah. So this is the long way of saying you can't do anything when you're crafting except listen. That's right. You know, that's right. You got to lock in. Yeah. Well, that's what I like about it is I'm always chasing flow state. Yeah. No matter what that looks like, I want something. I'm trying to use my phone a lot less too. It's making me mad. I just look at it. I'm mad. What am I looking at? What did I do? And then it's like, what am I communicating on Instagram? Like, it's like, look at what you don't have. Like, I don't want to do that. So I found that I'm happiest when I'm crafting, especially when I'm not working. So what are you making when you're crafting? I've been sewing. I've been sewing like a mad, a mad woman. I think I have a, I left in the car. I had a, I made a heart shaped purse that I sewed. I used a quilting, quilting cotton. But it's like a ditzy fabric. So kind of like grandma, like you would get it at like a countryside. It's puffy. I padded it because I wanted to put my laptop in it and it's a big red heart. I quilted it and then it has ruffles on it. Oh, wow. Another thing I made a pair of shorts. They're like two different legs. Well, the other thing is because I'm tall. That's the best thing. Like, yeah. Cause we're tall. I think sizes are just a suggestion. But they do better now. Totally. Totally. I think I can actually buy things off of offline. Me too. Yeah. And then, but there's also like a really good, like there's like a unisex runoff because of like drag culture and stuff that I've benefited from and like pushing the limits of sexuality and gender. I can find bigger shoes. Like shoes now will go to like 11. Yeah. I'm now, I'm 10 and a half, 11. Yeah. 11, right? So I'll go 11, 11 and a half. And it's, it's been a struggle, but now it's like really cool. Yeah. I know. But shorts with separate legs will help me out. Yeah. They're just two different fabrics. Oh, okay. But I can do whatever I want. You know, he's, he's very style. Oh, shorts are like. He's style ignorant. No, shorts are like, can I enter this? No, hang on a second, Jessica. What do you mean? Come on then. No, you were saying that and then you were cut off before you could finish telling me about the weight. Uh-oh. And it went a different direction. Shot time. Shot time. I was interested in understanding what two different legs were. Okay. Well, I also made a quilt top. Okay. That's not fashion. That's just more of a home good. I mean, there's nothing more satisfying than like, I did this and I can put it on and carry it out into the world. And you know, you have a million gifts. Now you have a million gift ideas and it matters more than like, to me, than like this really, really nice purse. It's also very sustainable. Yeah. It's like making stuff out of things you have. Did you, were you crafty as a kid? Or did you? No, I was more performing arts. I was doing like, I went to, I grew up here in LA more and it's called the South Bay. So it's more like the beach cities like Torrance, Redondo, that area, Harper city. And I knew I wanted to do performing arts when I was a kid. And here it's a lot easier to do performing arts. I went to public school. So I did, I would do drama festivals, Shakespeare festivals, school musicals. And then we had a high school improv team when I was in high school and I tried out for my high school improv team and I got on there. And that sort of started my, my comedy tract and like my love for, for comedy. Were you always this person that we see before you? I mean, you're so, you're quick, you're confident, you're on top of it. You know. No, I don't think so. I mean, a lot comes with being black, being a girl, being tall. And I was always tall. And you know, you know, I was just talking to you about that. I love talking about being tall, people that are tall. I don't like talking about being tall, people that aren't tall. So I feel very safe here. They are very safe. We know. Very safe. Very safe. We know. Would you consider yourself shy? Were you ever shy? Yeah, yeah, totally. I'm like on right now because I'm working. But when I'm home, like imagine I get in my car, I'm like, thank you, Craig and Michelle. Thank you. And I just go like that. And I just go. And then my driver, Juan, is going to be like, are you OK? And I go, I'm done. I'm done. I'm just done. I'm off. How old were you when you realized you wanted to be an actor? Oh, really young. I got a really nice sweet spot of TV. It was before Nickelodeon and Disney became 24-hour networks. There was like a time where, as a millennial, I'm 36. So we got to see, like, all that. There was like sketch comedy, Keenan and Kel. There was a lot of really funny stuff that was made for kids. But then at about 8, 8.30, they would start showing like happy days, escape to which mountain lassie. So you still got like older stuff. Like it wasn't, they would have something called Vault Disney. So it wasn't like you just watched stuff for kids. You watched everything. I remember Fresh Prince really meant a lot to me as a kid. Men in black, like Will Smith really meant a lot to me. Just talking about Queen Latifah really meant a lot to me. What Beagle Holberg, just like these women, these like black women who could play in rom-coms and can really, they can do it all. And then I got Saturday Night Live on Matt TV, which my grandma lived in the Valley. And when she'd watch me, she would let me stay up late and she would drink a Colt 45. And she was from Ohio. She lived really hard. And I would get her a diabetes medication, but also I would go get her her beer. You know, so. It was like, here we go. Totally. I got my girl stacked up. I asked my girl, like a friggin' seven-year-old at some point. But I really like, I just thought she was like the most beautiful person ever, this like lady who watched TV all day. But I just, she just had the best sense of she would watch South Park. She would watch the whole swim. She was just really bawdy. She would watch Carol Burnett. Like she just watched the Nanny. Oh, of course. I got all that stuff from her. We got so teared up with her. I mean, Carol Burnett meant so much to our family and our sense of humor. And she is as lovely in person. I'd love to meet her. Oh my God. I got to see all these things, but I didn't know that that was, I was getting an education in all sorts of TV and culture with her. Which was really nice. Did you grow up, did you have brothers and sisters? Yeah. I have an older sister and I have a younger brother, but we're all really different. My brother's more, he played football, come from a football family. I mean, I'm not sure if he's a football player, but I think he's a football player. I mean, he's a football player. I play football, come from a football family. And then my older sister likes business. She likes like local politics and stuff like that. So my sister, I think she works for the teachers unions right now. So she reps teachers in the university system. Yeah. So we all were in different lanes. She would run for student body and all that stuff. And I got to do drama club, Shakespeare club, and a slam dunk. Did you guys go to school together? We did. We went to school together. My brother went to a football school, but there's something really nice about not overlapping. We all had just different interests. And so I got to be like the middle child. What's your birth order? How many siblings do you have? Because I think birth order is the new, I think it's the new astrology. I agree. I see it in our kids. We see it. He has four. I have two. I'm Malia and Sasha. And it's very much their personalities and the choices they make because a younger child, you're trying to define yourself against the older. So there was a lot of things, oh, I'm not doing that. Or I'm doing that because you're not doing that. And you're a younger kid. So how much of it was your choice and how much of it were you battling against somebody else? It's like your first friend. Like your sibling is like, I feel very lucky to have mine. Like, mines make me laugh all the time. I'm like, sometimes I'll be like, especially with my brother. I'm like, you're my best friend is what I'm thinking. And then I'll see him and my sister and I'll go, look at the both of them. So beautiful, so handsome. I'm so happy to know you. I feel like that's like my 30s is being like, look at this family. I'm so lucky. I like all of us. That's nice. Like, I feel very, very blessed to have them. Did your sister try and protect you when she was younger? She was annoyed because me and my brother were like, we're not listening to you like what? And then my sister is more, she's like the person that I would imagine is the closest to Beyonce, who doesn't try to be Beyonce. Oh, yeah. Just really gorgeous and glamorous and works really hard. And just all the really, really lovely things that you would love in a beautiful black woman. And then I feel more like I'm just, you know, my brains are grown out. My brains are grown out. My underwear is starting to get too tight. Just kind of, I got to order some new underwear, but I don't feel like it. I don't feel like just kind of barely hanging on, you know? It's like, oh, I got to go do this podcast. I shave my legs. Probably not. I'm like lucky to, like a bunch of people put this together and rolled me over here. We can have Bernie's totally, totally. Your face is beat. Yes, yes. Do you do your own makeup? Never. No, I do like makeup a lot actually. And I love it, but I have this, I have two women that I love that does my makeup. And the one who does this makeup is I'm very lucky. She's very silly, very goofy. She's like very silly. You ever have that surprise where you're like, oh my gosh, this person is so silly. Just what you need to have somebody in your face. You have to like them and feel their energy. Totally. It feels like I'm hanging out with my friend. Then the person who does my hair too, I feel they're like two boots. They become, when you are in the public eye, your team becomes your family because you're with them more than you're with your own family sometimes. Do you like getting your hair and makeup done? You know, I like the people in the same way. I enjoy that more. But I'm like you, when I'm down, I'm down. I mean, you know, I structure my life around hair and makeup. It's like, let's get it all in. You know, it's like, stack them up. Because I don't want to have to do this and don't touch me. Don't touch me. That's right. Don't touch me. I feel like it's having a good diet. You get it. You break it. You do. It's like. I have no idea what you want to be talking about. It's true though, so much of what we do, especially because, oh my God, people are so mean. They're so mean online. You are so mean. They are. I spend most of my day. That's why you can't look. No, I can't. But most of my life, I feel like is leaving my house and trying not to get my feelings hurt. I never. Really? Yes, like at the store. Oh. Or some people just be like, oh my God, you're so much prettier than I thought. Like, just even things like that. Like that, yeah. Wow. And I'm just here. I'm just here at Albertsons. Yeah, you get that. I was like, oh, you're really pretty in person. Oh my God. What picture were they looking at? What are you looking at? Like what happened? See, you needed an older brother. See, he would have calloused you from. Totally. He would have punched you. I mean, I don't have a sense. And you do. That didn't work. No, I'm still like, I'm so sensitive. And as I get older, I'm like, that's just how I am. This episode is brought to you by Progressive Insurance, a company committed to helping people move forward and live fully. Mish, what is one of the biggest swings or leaps of faith you've taken professionally or otherwise? For me, you remember it was when I left investment banking to go into assistant coaching. That was a big swing for me. I remember calling you and you helping me to be okay with that decision. Yeah. I mean, I've had a lot of big swings. I mean, me leaving my job at the law firm where I was making a ton of money in corporate law and deciding to go and work in government and public service where it cut my salary in half. And I remember how guilty I felt for going to mom and dad and even expressing an interest to do something that I cared about rather than something that would make the absolute most money. I mean, at the time I was making my salary was more than both mom and dad salary combined. How do you think your age at the time shaped that decision? Do big decisions feel more or less daunting at different stages of life? Oh my God, that felt like the biggest decision that I would make. I mean, I had invested so much in getting my law degree and then to walk away from it, it was scary. But we've talked about it. Once you make that first scary leap, that first hard decision and you realize that you land pretty solidly on the other side of that leap, you get comfortable with taking those risks and understanding. So yes, age definitely makes the difference because now I'm more confident in my ability that when I take a big swing, then I have the tools to land wherever I need to land. It feels easier to make big decisions when you're young because if they don't work out, you don't have a lot of people to lose. It's harder when you're older because now the stakes are higher and more people are relying on these decisions to be the right one. All of our listeners have faced big decisions and they're fair share of uncertainty. I remember the first time I ever bought a house, one of the biggest leaps you ever take, I was really intimidated by the whole process. But when the time came, all I could do was trust my gut and have faith that it was the right decision. Progressive understands the hurdles first time home buyers are facing, including housing affordability challenges and a lack of straightforward education that could make the home buying process feel less intimidating. Progressive's Open the House initiative is committed to breaking down these barriers and making first times a little easier. Since 2024, Progressive has committed more than $16 million towards making the dream of home ownership more achievable. This includes a $3.5 million investment this year towards the up payment. Progressive's down payment assistant program aimed at first time home buyers. Learn more about the up payment program and Progressive's commitment to first time home buyers at progressive.com slash open the house where home buyers can discover more about housing challenges and access resources and support to empower them in their housing journey. ["House in the House"] Did you feel pretty? I mean, this is another tall girl thing. No, I don't know. It's like when you're a tall girl, you don't start feeling pretty until you're an adult and you really realize that it's like, oh, I really like this height. Totally. And a lot of, go ahead, Sarge. Part of the problem is you don't meet tall guys until later because it takes us so long to catch up height-wise. I mean, the big part of it, the overarching is media standards and our media diet actually is so counter to physically what we look like. It's the opposite, actually. And if nobody's talking to you about it, I feel like now we have that conversation about what are we looking at on TV, who's desirable on TV, who is considered petite or feminine, which is what's valued in a heteronormative society. Our media diet is the overarching thing, when they do the doll test and those studies. But that's the big thing. And so I think if you're a person of color, you are, we are downloading that our entire lives and taking away whatever it is, especially since it's nothing you ever really say out loud. But for me- Because you know better, you know better than to say it. It's not like we were taught that. I mean, I know my parents and my brother, they thought I was beautiful. So it wasn't, you know. So it's when you're at school. Wait, why are you doing that? I don't know, but I'm doing it. I'm doing it, but I only did it to be like yeah. This is like his sense of humor is sort of like, what are you doing? I don't know. But he's closest to me. So I'm an improv, I had to guess and him, you know? So I guess, but like- Great job. I don't know. I'm a term ghost. But totally like, so no, I didn't because I'm a feeler, I'm very sensitive. Like there's no, you know, and then, you know, when you're on TV and you do events, they like pay people to make sure you look good. So it's like a lot. It's like, you know, who you are when you're at home brawless, you know, watching Real Housewives of Rhode Island. Can you imagine they did Rhode Island? No, they did. Did you see it? Yes, of course. I just watched it last night. I used my time. I know you don't know what it is. And so I don't want to get into it. No, go ahead. What did you think? He's supposed to be watching one. So we're going to pick one. Here's what happens. Go ahead. I said, why don't I watch Rhode Island? Because it's the new one. Everybody's here. And you know what she said? Don't watch that one. No, don't watch it. It's not going to be any good. Now she's watching it. I told him. Well, I watched them all. Yeah, me too. So that's not a measure, you know. What's your recommendation for him, though? I think Potomac. Yeah, I think Potomac. Potomac is the one where like, I actually am laughing with them because they are very funny. Yeah, yeah. I think Potomac start two seasons ago. Yeah. Yeah, I guess you don't have to start from the beginning. You don't have to. You can just jump right in. I don't know if they've changed. Like, I want him to see that whole evolution. So I have to watch it from the beginning? No, no, no, no, no. Two seasons. We have a limited time. We know we have a limited runway. So we're saying start from like two seasons ago. And no, that's just a lot of reasons. A lot. Yeah, a lot. Because it's more than like eight episodes, isn't it? You can do it. Do it for the team. Yeah, definitely. Do a professional now. This is, yeah. I mean, this is the other thing. You can't be in podcasting and not know pop culture. You can't. Like, you can't. Here we go. You know, I might have to replace him. No, just kidding. Here we go. Oh, that's funny. You've got it happening. Are you free, Jessica? Yeah, with you. Yeah, I live right over here. Definitely. I live right down the street. What about 90 day? Do you watch 90 day? Pianse? You know, I watch glimpses of 90 day, but I have a hard time. There's a lot of that. I can't recommend it in good content. It's either you do watch it or you don't. I can't. I have watched it. I've watched it, but I, it's like I can watch anything. I have trouble watching that. That's how bad it is. Yeah, you should. It's not good for your soul. It is not. TLC is, you have Bravo and you know, you're like, okay, Andy's behind the strings and you're like, this is a, there's a standard. TLC, you're like, this is, what am I watching? What do you think of Rhode Island so far? I love it. It's got everything. There's a lot of drama that's happened. So much drama. I mean, the camera started rolling. They're all so messy. Totally. I also wasn't expecting the accents. Like I really, I didn't know anything about Rhode Island. I was just thinking that the other day, I didn't know what to expect from Rhode Island. There's a really strong like, he's over here. You're like, I didn't know this is what I'm gonna get, but I want it. See, that's why I was gonna watch it. We used to live in Rhode Island. Really? So I thought I'd be able to met to that one. Don't watch it, still don't. It's not the one. I won't. It's still too new. Okay. It's still too new. I'm gonna jump right in. Okay, then you gotta get it in. I'll get it. Well, now I'm wondering, tell me about your parents. They raged you creative, interesting people. What were they like? My mom liked football players and bounced, and who become bouncers. And that's why I'm tall. I'm just trying to tell you why I'm tall, as my mom has a tight. And especially as I get older, I'm like, that's really cute. My mom's always like, how's W. Kamal Bell? Have you spoken to him in a while? And I'm like, oh brother, she loves a tall black man. And so, yeah, I think she met my stepdad. We have a really blended family. She met my stepdad at The Ohio State University. Am I real dad? I think she met at The Ohio State University because they're Ohio people. Then she moved to LA, lived in Highland Park for a while. There was some clubs, like The Golden Tale that black people used to go to, and Deaf Comedy Jam, my dad. My stepdad is like a bodyguard and bouncer on the circuit, police officer, all those things. And then they reconnected here, and then they got married. And they came, my dad came with my two siblings, my oldest sister and my younger brother. And they raised us together in the South Bay, which is about 20 miles south of here, which is a really nice place to grow up. You're like, in LA, but you're not. So you can have a really, really nice normal life. And I don't know, they were always very encouraging because my dad did a lot of entertainment. And they were always really encouraging of the arts. And so they all kind of let us be ourselves. They were tough on me. I went to a gifted and talented program, tested into that, went to a magnet school, had to transfer schools to go to a predominantly, kind of white and Korean and Japanese program. And then... Was your neighborhood diverse? Yeah, my neighborhood was, but I had to go a little farther, more to like Pals Verde, San Pedro area, to go to school because I read a lot. And then I went to high school and they had a really great performing arts program, super underfunded, L-A-U-S-D, but a really great performing arts program. So I did a lot of that, did improv, and then did Upright Systems Brigade when I got in college. And then I went to Cal State Long Beach. Oh, you went to Cal State? I went to Cal State Long Beach. And then I did Upright Systems Brigade and something called Comedy Sports. And then I got the Daily Show while I was doing that. How old were you? 22. I was 22 when I got that. I know, now that I'm 36, I'm like, wow. Baby baller. Totally, you said baby baller? Mm-hmm. Yeah, I swish. Ooh, in my mouth. Yeah, I was a baby baller. It was one of those things where they didn't know how I got hired. I was auditioning for Alison Jones for this Will Ferrell movie. And she was like, you might be too young, but they're casting the Daily Show. Can you come back in and do these two sides? And it was like a standup where you have a green screen background, and then there was a thing at the desk where you're like talking to John and you're at the desk. And I was like, sure. And then I did that and they sent the tape in. And then maybe two days later, I was at the Panda Express on my campus. There was like a Panda Express there in between classes. And they were like, John Stewart saw your tape. He wants to fly you out to audition with him in New York. What do you do when you get that call? I screamed. I think I had an undercut. Like Rihanna's undercut. I think I had green hair. I remember my best friend and I screamed. And my mom took me to TJ Maxx, and we got like a Jones, New York suit. And I just remember flying out. It was so cold because it was in Hell's Kitchen. The wind whips around. I felt like I was in like a Broadway musical where I'm on the streets of New York and I'm scared and I'm 20. And I remember- I'm gonna make it in Shobin. Anywhere. And I just remember auditioning with him. Him just being so nice. And just being like, you know, I'll talk to you soon. And he auditioned me by being like, hey, I'm John Stewart. Like it's so nice to meet you. I already saw your tape. You're so funny. All you have to do is like be present with me. And that really released me. And I do really well with mentors like that who are very nice. Cause I'm so sensitive. I don't do well with mean mentors, which I think that can work for people. Another reason why sports work hard for me. Cause I need somebody to really be nice to me. Mean coach. Yeah. I mean, it works. We're not all a monolith. Like, you know, some people need to be tough. Some people need to be asses whoop too. Like some people need it, you know? And, but he was very sweet. It's like, I could tell some people you can tell our girl dads. Like there's something about working with a girl dad who's a good girl dad where you're like, you're, that's good. They made you better. Like you've learned a lot having girls. And I like the way you deal with women in your life. So anyway, I got that job pretty quickly. I say that a lot because it was the kind of audition where he wasn't making it seem like I had to prove myself. And at 22, black girl, I needed that, especially coming up in comedy. Cause there's like, especially at the time a lot of mean white guys in comedy actually. And who are like, you're not funny. You have to prove yourself to be funny, like all that stuff. And I had had a lot of that up until that point. So was that your, how did, you know what to do on the daily show? I mean, it's like- It's a machine. Like, it's been, it had been going for a really long time. And as a correspondent, your day is watching the news all day. You're looking for stories. People are pitching stories. And then there's like a field producer segment. And those are like, they're kind of bro-y. At least when I was there, it's like the guys that you go to Utah with and you interview somebody who's gonna say like, we should eat babies. And you're like, tell me more. And you have those packages. And then you have the stuff that you do with John. And then a lot of those people went to Ivy Leagues. And it's like two kind of separate things. And then you kind of ping pong back and forth. But there's like a schedule. But when you're 22, you know, it was like grad, I didn't finish college, but it felt like grad school. You learn to kill your darlings. Just because it's funny doesn't mean it's gonna make it. You learn how to work for one person. You know, you're, I, we're editing these field pieces and it depends on how John's feeling that day. But it's like watching his reaction. But that's important to, to work for someone. It's important to be like, oh, he didn't like this as much. And just because you think it should be some, some way at the end of the day, that's your boss and you're gonna do it that way. And then also he, we had been in a room full of people and I would be sort of like, oh, like, I have something to say about Coney 2012. And he'd be like, yes, Jessica, like, what do you think, you know, in this whole room full of people. So he was a really good boss for me for, for that. And I learned a lot about who I was. And it's also a really nice way to move to New York. It's like on somebody else's dime with a job. Where'd you live? I lived in Hell's Kitchen first. And then Wyatt's snack was like, Mr. Brooklyn and he was like, I'm gonna show you something about Brooklyn. This is like this is the place. Brooklyn. And so then I lived in Williamsburg, Clinton Hill, Prospect Heights all over. How long were you there? About 10 years. And then I, COVID happened. So you grew up. And I wanted to be with my parents. Yeah, totally in my 20s. I spent my 20s there. And it was great. Like I, this is LA is like my heart and my soul, but New York really affected me profoundly. What was the hardest part about working on the Daily Show? I think doing filled pieces. Like I think traveling and you're going to a rally, it's very scary, doing that is it takes guts, interviewing someone in the middle of Florida, is really scary. And you're gonna, you know, you're gonna have to do bits and get it out. You don't know if they're gonna freak out or something. And I remember having quite a bit of anxiety. And sometimes I would text the other correspondents like, here I go, I hope I get what I need. But yeah, especially now it's like what they're doing. Like Jordan and Desi and Ronnie and, you know, it's like, and Josh, it's like really cool that they're doing that. But for me, it gave, it gave me a lot of anxiety, especially coming up more introverted. Yeah, yeah. Just have to, you know, that's the life we chose. That's the job. Wow. Were you, were you glad to be doing it? Did you feel like you were in your, in your, your sweet spot? Absolutely. It was really nice to have you guys in the White House. Yeah, it was nice. It was like, it's harder now. Like, because there's just so much. There's so much. And it's really, really, really like a trigger point now. But yes, it was great. It was, it was funny. The Daily Show is something where you wouldn't know, you don't know who's watching it. And you would get really cool people that watch the show, which is really nice. But yeah, I learned so much, but it's hard because with that and podcasting, it was like, I always knew I was an actor. So I had to do like a hard pivot and be like, oh, well, I started this as an actor. I just so happened to, to do improv and really like comedy. Yeah. That's gotta take a lot of courage because you got this regular job and you're doing well. And then, but you know, you were destined for something else. So how did you, how and when did you decide, okay, this is enough. I gotta, I gotta follow my passion. You gotta be big. Totally. I mean, it was really hard. People were like, oh, like, we want you to run the Daily Show. So I understand that. They're like, oh, we want you to host the Daily Show. And I'm thinking, I don't want to. I was like, I love them. I love it. It's a hard job. You do it every night. I wonder if people are like, for me, it's like when I told people I was doing this, they were like, tell Michelle we want her to be president. I was like, she doesn't want to be freaking president. Like, what are you talking about? Like, those people don't know what the job is. I know, but you do. It's like, you don't know what this is. You do, if you wanted to, you would do it. What are you talking about? You know, and so it was, I remember one day, it was just cold to do. It was just like, you host. And I was like, I don't want to do that. You know how much work that is. You don't want to see your family. I'm looking at the news like this all day. Then I have to put on a suit. I don't want to wear a suit, but you do look better in a suit when you're hosting it. You have to wear a suit. You know, I don't want to do that. Shit. You can't wear your pajamas up. Oh my God, no. And you're loose fitting. No girl, I want to listen to this launch. Non support brunch. I want to sew a tote bag. Okay. That's who I am. These down inside. And you have to know that I know better than you because I watch people do the job. And I know what it takes to do the job. I know better than you. You know, so it's like. Tell Michelle. And it's like, don't you want her to run for president? No, I don't. No. Why? She did it. We're good. Let her do her whatever, you know, but let her knit and deal with Chala's. But yeah, so it, you know, it is hard to leave something that was like my womb, but I never thought like since John went back and since I've gotten to do shrinking that I get to go back. And so I've done a couple of bits going back home and it feels really good. The taste being able to dabble, and it is very different. And they're the best over there. They're like, you want to do something? Let us know. It's like, great. But I never thought I'd be able to work with John again in that capacity. And I feel very lucky. This episode is brought to you by Progressive Insurance, a company committed to helping people move forward and live fully. So buying your first home can feel like this huge, exciting milestone. And it is, but it can also feel confusing and deeply overwhelming. 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Visit progressive.com slash open the house where home buyers can discover more about housing challenges and access resources and support to empower them in their housing journey. Back to tall people always in acting. Okay, no offense to the all of Hollywood. They're so small. I know. They're such small people. Totally. And I always miss, I don't see anyone because I'm looking for, that's X and I'm looking up and they're down and I miss them. They walk right past my waist. They're like, you don't know what I'm talking about. They're like, you didn't know that was Tom Cruise? I thought Tom Cruise was my height. Totally. Totally. I'm doing a romcom right now that I think you'll be really excited about. It's like me and a guy who's shorter than me. I love it. And I'm really excited. And I was like trying to tell him, I was like, look at Tom and Zendaya. And he's like, no, I'm not gonna Google that. But I know for me it's my inspo with Tom and Zendaya. And I love looking at them walking around in London with their little dog. And he's a little short king and she's a tall queen and it just looks so right. It just looks so right. And it's like, why Hollywood? Why? It looks good. We can do this. So I'm trying to take it. I'm trying to take it back because it's ridiculous. There's a weird like doll, baby doll Barbie and Ken thing. That's like, if you're tall, you can't be with somebody short. But it looks really good. You could be under the arm of the gun. Totally. And so I still watch that. I still watch women who are underneath somebody's arm. And I'm like, I don't even know what that feels like. No, Zendaya takes Thomas, she just grabs him. He's right on her middle and he's grabbing it. They're both grabbing each other like, I love paparazzi photos. They're right in there. Thank you guys so much if you're watching. It really means a lot to me and the tall woman community. But I really hope to take back the rom-com. And be like, oh, that would be shorter than me. It's actually really lovely. On the tall woman side, the fact that women's athletics has really developed and we were seeing all types of bodies and images. And I feel so good about the next generation of girls coming up. I don't know about you, but when I meet a tall young girl, I stop. I know me too. And I'm like, girl, you are, this is exciting. Me too. And I see you and stand tall, do not worry about this. You will grow into it. It will be fabulous. But we didn't have those wrong. There was, I know you did. When I see tall young girls, I stop too. And I tell them, they didn't make them like that when I was younger. Yeah. Especially like, because when you think, I'm sorry, when you think about you two, you all aren't that tall. You're tall, but you're not like tall. I'm still, I'm 5'10. Yeah, I'm 5'11. I'm 6, but then when you add the shoes and you add the hair and the thing, you know, it feels. And also presence. Like I'm not gonna, I think my presence feels tall. So how is it getting cast when you're, you know, when everybody is 5'6? And it's hard. Yeah. Yeah, it's really hard. People, I think there's a lot in this business about people hiring the same people over and over. Like sometimes I look at movie trailers and I'm like, I just saw all these people in a different movie. And now it's like, and now we're bringing you them in a different movie. And you're like, ah, you know, we have to, we have to work to make people, make it look different. You know, and then there's something about being, like not mixed also, which means you work less considerably. You know, every show there's like a lovely mixed young lady on the show and that benefits everyone because she can have a white parent and a black parent. And it's again, our media diet. It's like, what are we saying? And then being tall on top of that, it's like really, really hard to get cast. You just have to, you can't rest. You have to prove yourself all the time. But I feel lucky to be on Trinket because we shoot that like five or six months out of the year and she's by my house. And it's just another opportunity for me to just show what I know I can do. Just, I do think if you keep chipping away at something, if you just keep doing it, keep showing up, then finally things will open for you. Oh, thank you so much. You really are. I mean, that's one of my favorite shows. Oh, thank you. I mean, I've had the opportunity to meet Harrison and, oh yeah, my God, he's so sweet. One of the sweetest people in the world, trying to get him on the show. But I'll corner him into that. Totally, no, you should. I'm gonna try to get him. You should kind of guilt him. It's like the former first lady really wants you on the show. He's like, well, okay, well, what? Like, I don't know. I don't even know how you would begin to do that. I feel lucky that we get him to act. I'm gonna figure it out. Yeah, totally. We were just with, I was just with him the last two days and like he's just a maniac. Like, he's our, especially on set, he's like our son. I mean, it's Jason's show, but Harrison is like the son and we're the solar system around him. We're like, is he here? All right, let's do it. Or he'll be like, some days he'll be like, I'm already acting, I'm already acting. And then the crew must be like, you know, but it just depends on how he's feeling. But he's like, you know, he's earned it. He, sometimes I'll just look at him and they've wiggled him into doing press, you know? And I'll be like, he was at the cast party for like Indiana Jones. He's at the cast party for what lies beneath. Like he was like, he's at the cast party for witness. You know, this is how long he's been acting. You know, he doesn't have to do any of it, really. So I feel very lucky. But you feel like you're holding your own. I mean, you total toe with. Thank you. I have no, you know, I have no choice. Why am I gonna let Harrison Ford do gobble me up on screen? No, it's like, no, I'm competitive. You know, I don't do sports, but I like to think I'm athletic and I'm very competitive. And one thing I'm going to do is make the scene mine. I always, my, have you seen Annie Hall? Have you guys seen Annie Hall? There's this lobster scene in Annie Hall. That's totally, you can tell, like an improvised spontaneous moment. And they're giggling and you're just like, wow, like Diane is giggling and you're like, this is everything I want in my career is like an improvised moment. I want every time I do something on camera for it to feel like it's happening for the first time. And, you know, I want to, if Harrison has an idea, I want to yes and and be like, I want to make my screen partner look good. That's a big part of being a supporting character too, is like, I'm going to put my oxygen mask on and then I'm going to help you. How do we make this happen? And how do we make this scene look alive? So for Gabby, especially the character I play with such a heart led person, I'm always trying to be like, okay, now what feels, how can we have a lobster moment? What feels spontaneous? I wanted to feel like you look at it and you're like, oh, only Jessica could do that. That's kind of my goal, I think. But yes, casting is hard. There's no, like, you really have to get people to try and think of you, but I can't force it. So in the meantime, when I'm off and not working, I like to sew, I have hobbies and I have a full life. That's kind of the goal. Like I act, but I want a really full life. That's the thing. Yeah. And that affects your work. I mean, you start seeing these actors who just, they become other people and it changes the way they show up. It's really easy because when you're an actor, you're on set, people can get you anything you want. You're like a baby, basically. Everybody knows where you are. They're like, so you need something, I can get it for you and you become this weird baby person. And it brings a lot of mental illness, it does. And I get it. Like I really want my union to have more health services, specifically for actors because you have, you're, you know, it's so mean, our business so mean, the casting doesn't make sense sometimes. You're fighting for these parts. It's very small. And, you know, there's, you know, there's the white guy on set. There's number one on the call sheet. You don't know if he's doing method. You don't know what his thing is. Is he gonna make it easy for you? Is he gonna make it hard? You might still have to kiss them. Like, you know, you don't, it's its own thing. And it is like a really, really kind of baby job. Like there's so many important jobs, but acting is like, it is the most baby, like, look at me, I'm feeling emotions. Like it's so embarrassing actually. It's a really embarrassing job. So when I see guys talking about the craft, like, it's like shut up, shut your ass, you cry baby. You just got paid to cry on camera. It's cool, it's a craft, but it is, you're not a surgeon. You're not a doctor. It's like you're not saving lives. You're not saving lives. You didn't fix the ozone layer. You're not. Our job is elective. Jessica, everybody can't do it. Like, if somebody like me, I, I'm fascinated at consuming acting. Really? You like the good acting. I like to watch and sometimes, even if it's not good, I don't mind sort of watching people attempt to do things. It's like a sport. Me too. I appreciate the fact that you've had to work Me too. All of this and get up there and then mess it up. Me too. I like a medium experience. Like, I think online people are like, this movie didn't blow my balls off. Like, and you're like, you want your blows, your balls blown off every time you watch something. You can just have a perfectly medium time. And it's good. Like, bring back a medium time. I think it's kind of destroying art or medium, like medium less, like that's okay. Like it's fine. I think it makes studios take less of a chance on art because everybody needs to have their life changed every time. No, we have to try and fail. It is a goofy job where if you do it right, you get an insane amount of money for a tiny amount of work. And I'm calling that out because a lot of actors walk around like they're, you know, changing the world. And it's like, I guess, but this is art that we get. It's a privilege. So, yeah, but I do love good acting. My partner knows like, if I see good acting, he'll just turn to me like, do you want to rewind that? And I go, yeah, they're cooking. Like I'll rewind things when I see it. So that means your partner knows good acting. I think so. I think he does just from like us being together. It's like, I want to see it. Like I want to see cooking. And I think there's nothing, but that's what I like about reality shows, like Real Housewives. You want to watch stakes. Okay, Craig, listen. You want to watch acting. These women are acting. That's right. They're like, you look at me weird. Like it's like, go. That is my point to my sister that it is not reality TV. No, it's not reality. It's acting. No, nobody's arguing. I'm not saying this is so real. And that's why it was like, oh my God, it's just, it's entertaining. I think it's like when Andy Warhol came out with pop culture and people were like, what is this? This is a can of soup. I think it's that. I think really amazing things happen in reality TV. And I think it's really important and it shows us something about ourselves as a society. And it should be watched. It should be studied. It should be analyzed. Like reality TV is important. Because you were breaking down characters, behaviors, things you've seen before. I mean, I think it's also, look, I tease him because what you said about acting, I say all the time about sports. You know, I mean, it's, you know, societally we have decided what type of entertainment is relevant or good or worthwhile. Right? And it's like reality TV is, it's sociology. It's empathy. It's analyzing behavior. I mean, it's like the, it's like the Emmys of like, girl, let's break down that conversation. Totally. Which is very female. Totally. You know? But what gets, what do we spend money on? What gets the awards? Somebody throwing a ball. It's like, okay, you're good at throwing, you can jump high, but that's what you, that's all you do. Totally. You've been trained. Yeah. This is what you've done. So you should be good at it and, and you're tall. Totally. You want a genetic order. Or genetics, right? You, you, you fit the bill. You're a gymnast because you're 4'11". You know, I tried, I tried. That's another thing tall people can't do. A backflip. Couldn't do it. Too much going around. It's too much going around the mountain. It's just can't get over. Because you do the first part of the backflip. You're like, that was a lot. But you got to bring the legs. You got to keep all of them. All of them. You know? Yeah, no. So I do think it's very gendered. I make this argument only because so many people make the opposite argument when it's something they don't understand. Totally. You know, that's the only reason I make the argument. It's mainly to men to say, wait, wait, wait a minute. Right? Yeah. What you like is only, you know, credible because men have decided it is. Right. That's why. I agree. It's not because it is objectively. It's a skill for sure. It's a really cool skill too. Totally. Whatever the sport is. Totally. Anybody who becomes a master at something they do, it's fascinating to watch. I know. I like it too. I feel like that's why I like talking to people about anything really. If you, especially when you travel and you're like, oh, you're a master shoe shiner, like tell me more, genuinely. What kind of, you know, what's it like when somebody has smelly feet? You're shoe shining. What's that about? How do you deal with it? How do you cope? Do you have a regular? What do you guys talk about? Do you shine your own shoes or are you over it? What's the best kind of shoe to shine? You know, like really? I really care about that. We can go in. Totally. I think people, that's why people are endlessly fascinating and it's what you choose to find interesting that matters. And I do think reality TV, it's like, you should, you could, my dream, and I've said this quite a bit, is toward the end of my life when I'm a professor somewhere, they're like an honorary professor, teacher, reality studies class. And like, what does it say? Yeah. What do the Kardashians say? What does it reflect back to us as a culture? What does it mean? You know, that, that, I- What do you think it means these days? Well, there's so much reality TV. It's hard to choose just one thing. It's a valid medium and it's doing really, really well. But it does show us like, Love Island showed us a lot. Did you ever watch, did you watch the last two seasons of Love Island? Yes. You are my friend. You are my friend. The girls introduced, I didn't really know about it. I would pass over it. And then one day, it was this one summer, when was it COVID? I don't know what, no, it wasn't COVID because it wasn't on, but the girls were into it and it was the thing, it came on every day and I was like, oh, I was, I was judgy. I was like, yeah, of course. How could watching these kids in these bathing suits become a thing? And then they were like, just sit down and watch with us, mom. And I couldn't stop. Absolutely. I couldn't stop. And there was a discussion, deep discussion, after every episode. Totally. We'd have to stop. I mean, especially this last season, there was a lot of race politics that came into play. There were fandoms that came into play. There was somebody as beautiful as Olandria, you're like, am I taking crazy pills here? Am I taking crazy? This is one of the most story-telling women have ever seen, but when you're in this sort of fish bowl of people whose beauty standards are one way, you're just like, oh, this is really, really weird. And then I love it's like when she got out of the house, it's like she's going to fashion, it's like what she deserves. But it did spawn a lot of conversation over fandoms and race in the United States. And then the season before that, there was some weird Dominican-American stuff. It was like it really highlighted. It's like a weird fish bowl. And it brought up some racial politics of heteronormative romance in a way that I think is really interesting. And it is the easy, it is lazy to me for people to count that out because it's reality TV. There's so much there. But that's why I think it's really important. 90 Day Fiancé is its own thing that's saying a lot of crazy stuff about immigration. And a lot of times I'm rooting for the women trying to get in this country that I know in their home country make a dollar an hour. And they're talking to this old guy and they're like a hot young thing trying to get into the United States. I'm like, yeah, get away with life. Shoot your shot, get away with life. It's like, I don't know, there's just so much. We've got our viewer question. Yeah. Okay, we have a question. Yes, we have a. Let me help. Okay, let me help you. Yeah, this is from Benedetta. And Benedetta does not want us to know where she's from. At 37, as a black woman, I am finding myself at a bit of a crossroads. I've recently graduated from a leadership program. And while I've been fortunate to land interviews and receive great feedback, I'm struggling to close the opportunities. It's incredibly frustrating, especially as I find myself applying for roles I know I can excel in. There's a lingering uncertainty that I can't quite shake. What more can I do to make the leap into a role that truly aligns with my aspirations? I know that career journeys aren't linear, but I'm reaching out because I'd love to hear your thoughts on staying motivated during this process. How do you keep pushing through the uncertainty without settling when the pressure to take anything that comes your way is so real? Your advice would mean the world to me. And that is from Benedetta, who is 37. It's really hard because what I could have used and what I could use when I was an actor is like, sometimes people just aren't gonna hire you because you're black. And like, you feel like you're taking crazy pills. You're like, oh, I can't get this job. Oh, I can't. You do all these things and you see other people get it. Maybe you're more qualified. And like, it's like, you're not crazy actually. Like sometimes you just not gonna get it because you're black. So this is the, we are the history of our country makes it so that we are, it's actually harder for us to get jobs and that's very real and like sit with that. I think for a second and that's okay. But then also it's like okay to be disappointed. I feel like there's that too. It's like feeling like, you know, feeling like you're disappointed in the system comes with being the human experience, I feel like. But also keep, you gotta keep going. And make sure you fill your life with things that you enjoy that remind you of who you are. Like whether it's, you know, for me crafting, making sure you laugh with your friends, doing things that fill your tank is really important. Even when you get the job I know you're gonna get. It's like, make sure you fill your tank because work isn't the only thing. It's like, you have a whole full life and you are a person outside of this job and make sure you hold on to that because it'll make the stress of not working in the field that you wanna like work in a little easier, I think. And what do you guys think? Mm-hmm. You know, I, it's the, how do you stay focused? I think sometimes you need to be ready to take an alternative path because it depends on what your circumstances are. I mean, I wouldn't tell somebody, just hold on to your dream regardless of anything because you might not be able to do it. And flexibility and adaptability is part of life. I mean, you don't, I don't wanna discourage anybody from pursuing their dreams, but you gotta eat, you know? A good part of happiness and feeling sustained is like I'm taking care of my family, paying my bills. And sometimes, you know, look, this whole notion of having the career that makes you happy and fulfills you, I think is a relatively new goal. Our parents took jobs and they worked and they did what they had to do to pay the bills. I don't think my father, who was a stationary fireman at the water filtration plant all his life, who was an artist, he was a gifted painter and sculptor. He couldn't do it because he had us. And so he made the call that I'm gonna work for the city, make a good salary, send my kids to college. You know, most of people in life are doing things that don't bring them passion, you know? It's like, so they find it in other things. And I think I would say keep an open mind to what is really possible to, and be ready to pivot, you know? And try not to be too disappointed with the pivot. Because that is how you feel about the pivot sometimes that can determine it all. If you feel like I gave up everything and I can't be happy now or I failed because I didn't do this thing in the way that I thought it was done. That's all in our heads and our hearts, you know? I mean, it is not a statement of anything other than maybe you just didn't, it didn't work out. At that time too. At that time, and sometimes things don't work out, but don't let that block your happiness or define you. Keep going if you can, but be realistic if you can. Yeah, you're also always surprised. Steve Jobs says that I'm really bad at quoting people, but I understand the essence of it. That's what I remember. Steve Jobs says that really cool thing about connecting the dots. And like, you wanna do one thing, but then you wind up doing something else, and then you wind up doing something else. But at the end, it all kind of came together, especially for him in making this Apple product. And it's like, you would be surprised, the root that you take to get to where you want. I found that's been true in my life and my career, which is the only thing I can really speak to. And then the other thing that you reminded me of is thinking of your thoughts as trains. Like I had a really good therapist once tell me, like your thoughts are coming and going, you're on a subway platform, the trains are passing, and you can choose to get on the train, or you can choose not to. So when you're seeing this train, that's like, I'm a failure because I don't have the job I want right now. You can choose to get on the train, or you can acknowledge it and see it and have it pass. But that reminded me of that, of like just because you think that you're a failure today, because you don't have this job today, it doesn't mean that that's actually what's true. That's right, yeah. Well, for Benadetta, from someone who has pivoted quite a bit in their career, I would say, do not be afraid to begin at the beginning. And that's where I think a lot of people get hung up on because they want to pivot into an equal or higher position. To your point about, you're not going to always find something, because you got to eat, you got to live, you got to raise your family. You really have to think about starting from scratch. And that might mean, hey, I want to be a basketball coach, and you take a salary cut, and you do something else on the side while you're creating this new opportunity for yourself. I agree with Mish, this is a new thing where people are actually actively trying to find the thing that they love to do, because it feels like people are just absolutely so unhappy in their current situation. But I don't think it's, I think people have been thinking about this for a long time. They just haven't had the wherewithal to do it. And having done it a couple of times myself, you just have to get past the fear of starting from the beginning. And then the other thing that I would say is, the Benedetta's 37, you said? So she's young enough where if you can keep your lifestyle at a manageable place, the, I think the reason that I could make that first jump from corporate investment banking to coaching, was I never took my lifestyle up to the big time bond trader level, because I was always afraid that it wouldn't last. If you can manage to do that, it makes it easy to pivot. It makes it easier. Easier to pivot. Yeah, I mean, I think that this is separate from her, but like there is something where I say to much, much younger, much younger, I'm talking like, they're like 18, 19, not to you Benedetta, you know, you're my girl. You ain't gonna like a job all the time. Yes. You ain't gonna like it. Yes. Some day you're not supposed to. Some day you're gonna work people you don't like. You can't just quit. You gotta have a job, you gotta pay the bills. Like you just not gonna like it. So. That's right. No, that's absolutely right. Well, I didn't like when I handed it. So? Yeah, there's. That's not how it works. But you gotta admit, when you're doing something you like, it's easier on the days when you hate that. But you gotta work for it. But I mean, even this job, I love my job. Some days, I'm not a morning person. I gotta get up. You just was what we do. You just got to. There's always something you're not gonna like. And so this idea that you have to like it all the time, I'm like, nah. Well, living below your means, living within your means, I'm telling young people that all the time. I mean, that's a key to freedom, you know? Totally. Well, Jessica. This has been cool. I had a blast. I had a blast. You guys were lovely. I wasn't worried. I hope you're not exhausted. I am. I think I'm gonna get in the car. Oh my God. I want to see my videos. It's like, I'm powering down. Powering down Jessica's off. I'm gonna pin my hair. I'm gonna do it in the car. My driver knows that's what's happening. Sometimes I get in the car, I take my wig off sometimes. It's like, goodbye. Totally. When I get in the black car, it's like, they know. But like, I had a blast. This was great. I'll do it again anytime. But thank you for having me. It's been, I wasn't worried. Thanks for being here. You have, it's so much fun watching you. And you are killing it. Thank you. And just keep it up. Girl, represent us tall chicks out in the world. Keep opening up the opportunities for tall black women to do whatever we want. You are representing well. Thank you. And give your mom our love, even though, you know. Especially Craig. Yeah, whatever. Give her a hug for me. I will. She'll love it. She's gonna watch this and she's gonna love it. She's gonna be happy that I did that. Thank you. You did that thing so much. Thank you, sweetie. Thanks again to our friends at Progressive Insurance for sponsoring this episode. For more information, visit progressive.com slash open the house.