Miracle The Boys Of '80 Review w/ Mike Lupica

Welcome to the Empty Netters Podcast. Can you believe what this has become? There was a full 48 hours right felt like I was like literally Superman. Jambolos playing Fortnite, so... No, I can't. Yeah, it gets on the stick. Did TR show you the son of Cycle? It was not already. No, I invented that. Almost a year now that I haven't taken a body check. That's kind of nice. I finished my name with some chicken figures and a few Guinnesses right into you guys. Yeah. That's where this pod came to life. All right, ladies and gentlemen, we have watched the Miracle Doc and we had to call in the big guns. We are joined today by the Emmy Award winning all-time legend, Father of the Glue Guy. Mike Lupica is here and he was at every single game of the 1980s Aoki Olympics story. Mike, thank you so much for joining us. Thanks, and by the way, I wish I had won an Emmy. I think my son has won an Emmy, but I have not sadly. And... But this could be it. And we're going to get right here. It's on display in the studio. Yeah, right next to the other one. We're giving you our Emmy. Like that's that's the Emmy that we're talking about here. Like you are... Oh, wait, I think giving out Emmy's podcasts now? They are, right? Oh, yeah. They're giving out Golden Globes too. Golden Globes. Golden Globes, Golden Globes. But that's okay. Yeah, so all right. Listen, I'm willing to just take an ascended course to an Emmy eventually. This is the way forward. This is the way forward. So before we even get started... Yeah, go ahead, Mike. Was this the greatest sporting event you've ever been to still to this day? Yeah, I get to ask that question all the time. I was doing an appearance the other night with Jim Patterson, my co-writer, and somebody asked that question from the audience. And I think they were surprised at how quickly I answer. I said, this answer has not changed. Since Lake Placid in 1980. And here's the thing, guys. I knew that night that it was gonna be. I knew that night that nothing was ever going to approach that game. And forget about the Golden Globes game. I'm talking about the night we beat the Soviets. And I was walking through the press room afterwards and it was time to write. And I heard a guy saying, oh my God, how can I write this? I said, no, no, no, no, no, no. You wait your whole... This is why we do this. You have a night like this. It's all the nights when nothing is happening. Those you can wonder, why do I do this for a living? But not that night. I ran to the keyboard that night because I wanted to tell this story. Yeah. The two things for me as the doc was interviewing was how hard... Like, it's hard for us to process how big this was. You know, I've seen the previous docs. I've seen Miracle, I've seen it all. But just having not lived through it, it's hard for me to even wrap my brain around how big this was for the players, for the writers, for the country, for everything. And there was a quote early too that was one of the guys in the intro of the doc was like, what I remember most is how loud it was. And I wonder if you can seek to that too, Mike, because Dan and I were at four nations and we always say that that was so loud. And I can't imagine what that atmosphere was like in here. Well, it sounds like what people want you to believe now, which was that there were 800,000 people there instead of just 8,000 people in that of itself. It's a very small place. I mean, it's now safe around and people visit and it's, you know, hockey teams go up there. But I'll start with before the game. David Israel, who's still my friend at Great Sports column, as he was with the Chicago Tribune then. And he got up right before the game and he said, listen, I know what we've been taught our whole career. He said, any Americans in this press box who don't cheer tonight, I'm gonna beat the shit out of it. And so that set the tone. And we'll talk about that game. But when Michael Arruzioni of East Boston, Massachusetts, you know, son of a bartender, scored the goal with 10 minutes left and they speak to this in the documentary, okay? It was in minutes straight up. And I can tell you, they say what I have been saying ever since. Those 10 minutes felt like they took 10 years because you still couldn't process that this actually might happen. And I think they give you a good sense in the doc about just how vaunted the Soviet team was and how unbeatable they were supposed to be. But now we're ahead. And so they skate and do this and do that. And they pass and they get hit into the board and you look up in like 15 seconds for solving the last and it just kept building and building and building. And of course, in those last seconds, we would only find out later about Al's call. You know, we're going to be out. Yeah, yeah, wow, that's incredible. And Jimmy Craig's dating around, looking for his dad, all of that we would find out later. But that noise, I have never heard a noise like that and I have been in the Metro dome in the old days, gained seven of a world series and indoor place. But this, I described it this way, later that night. Sports made a sound that night that it actually can't make. And that's what we all heard and felt when it was 4-3 forever against the Soviets. God, Dan, you had said while we were watching that the Soviets winning every Olympic gold since 1960 is coming into that is ridiculous. Like even rather brain around us. Yeah, it's so crazy. And I mean, we listen like Chris, you can sure pass through the whole doc as we talk about it. But you know, just watching Miracle and watching previous documentaries that have been made, it's that exhibition game, that 10 to 3 game, I can only imagine what was going through everyone's heads when they came into this matchup again, being like there is literally no planet where they can beat this team and then here we are. And somebody said it in the documentary. That 10-3 game, it could have been 20 to 3. I mean, it was, you know, that's the great scene in the movie Miracle when Craig says to her, that's my net. You said, Jimmy, tonight it was everybody's net, you know? And now they get to Lake Placid. And they're nearly gone in my memory. And I'd have to check this. I believe the Sweden game was the night before the opening ceremonies. I think that was the craziest thing I've ever heard, by the way. That's the show. So literally, we were talking about before we started today. They were literally gone before the Olympic started. And then Billy Baker ties that game and all of a sudden, okay, we're in the game. We're in the game. And as the thing goes on, nobody's thinking we're gonna beat the Soviets at this point, but we're hanging around. And it wasn't until the Czechoslovakia game when we just absolutely, I think somebody described it afterwards, we stuffed him in a locker, okay? And put seven goals on what was supposed to be maybe the second best team in the world. Yeah. And now the thing is starting to build. And here's the other thing about this Olympics guys. This became like the only came in town. The Lake Placid Olympics were a mess. You know, the buses wouldn't run. I think a bunch of guys ended up going to jail. Afterwards, I had a dear friend, Reno Rossi, the late Reno Tomassio, I knew from tennis. And he was covering the Olympics. And one day, I see him outside the press center and he's just shaking his ass, he goes, Mike, Mike, Mike, this is the second worst assignment of all time. I said, what was the first Reno I go, it's World War II. And so, yeah. Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha. It's so, nothing is working except this team. It felt like this team. All of a sudden, you just, okay, no game tomorrow, but then they play the next day. And the thing starts to build a little bit. And you start to think, maybe there's a chance, you know. And I tell Zach, my son, the glue guy, this story all the time about Jimmy Velvano when North Carolina State became one of those upset stories for all time in college basketball. And I was pretty close with Jimmy Velvano. And after his Sunday press conference, after they played themselves into the final, we're walking to his car and he said, they keep telling me I don't got a chance. He said, there's only two teams left. I gotta have some kind of chance. It's why, it's why I brought two suits with me. And so, again, now we're building towards that Friday night and the main event and what had now become something because of the situation in the world, because there was something so damn appealing about our kids, it's like when Vince Scully called Kirk Gibson's hotel in a year of the impossible just happened. We didn't know the impossible was gonna happen, but we had tricked ourselves into believing that because it was sports, maybe they could do this. So that was, I was very about to ask you that, Mike. Did you going in, you had some belief, like of course, because you crushed the checks, that's incredible. Beat West Germany, right? That was the last one before the medal round. But before that game, you genuinely were like, we could win because I actually was surprised to hear in the doc some of those guys were like, yeah, I mean, it's the Soviets. We kind of felt like we couldn't beat that. Was there a little bit of belief in you? Yeah, because guys, I always go to the biggest events hoping for the same thing, my entire career, that I'm gonna see something tonight that I've never seen before. Whether it's a ball or a super ball, the World Series, wherever it is, okay? Big final in tennis. So there's enough romance in me that what do you root for? Perfect word. The best story. You root for the best story. And not only would that be the best story, it would be the greatest story ever told in sports. And again, okay, so now we're playing the game. And by the way, we can jump around on this, but that would be awesome. Another game is being played. And the Russians are ahead two to one. And Arunzion, he's been telling me, he tells it in the doc. And he's been telling me the story ever since when we've run into each other. He's skating, he's skating off. And all of a sudden, 10 seconds nine at the end of the first period. And he says, all of a sudden I see something flash down the ice. And it was Mark Johnson. And everybody kind of had stopped playing in that moment except Mark Johnson. And when I've written about it ever since, I've always said, where was he going? He was on his way to beginning to change sports history. And he picks up that bouncing puck and he puts it behind Trechak. And all of a sudden, it's not too one. They're not ahead. They're not doing what they're supposed to do. Now it's too two. And that was the first crazy explosion of the night. We didn't know that Trechak was about to get benched. We didn't know any of that. But what we knew was the scoreboard said two two. And it's just like two galvanizers. Like two teams playing two more periods. So they had to have some kind of chance. And then we come out and Trechak's on the freaking bench. And in the movie, I forget. I think it's Craig Patrick who said, I don't know what just happened. We just put the best goalie in the world on the bench. And then became, well, that's been so controversial. Ever since my side, but this was that today, Michigan only gave up two more goals the rest of the day. And that's why for all the stuff about Trechak and Michigan and all the goalie switch, there was only one goalie to talk about on this night. Because when we Craig was in the process of having the night of his life on the night when they were playing the game of their lives. And he was the story. And guys, if you ever go back and look at the third period, which I have in real time, he stood on his head. He stood on his head. And even at the end, in those last couple of minutes, they're coming at him. You know, they're coming at him with everything except Russian tanks. And they just, and the clock begins to wind down. And Jimmy makes one last stop. And, and, you know, as they say, the rest isn't just history, it's, it's the history. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's the, it's got to be the greatest hockey game ever played. And there's no question. But it's going back to what you were talking about with the Mark Johnson goal. I think that one gets lost all the time when people break down the scale. There are so many elements. It's like the captain who was almost cut who didn't have an NHL career who maybe wasn't the most talented guy scoring the game winning goal, the 10 minutes left after they took the lead, the, the Jim Craig performance, the fact that they forgot to pull Michigan because the Soviets didn't know how to play from, you know, losing all of those things are the storylines. But we were actually, we were talking with Zach about it last night. The fact that Mark Johnson, your best player, scores a goal with one second left to tie the game in the end of the first period is not talked about enough. Like that is insane that that happened. And we can all say all with almost certainty if that doesn't happen, they don't win this game. It's fucking crazy. No, they don't win the game again. That was, that's one, the spark was, was, was really late. And, you know, and when the puck is behind Trechack, we're not sure, we're not sure whether, if he got it passed him in time or not, and I'm telling you something, if they had taken that goal away in that moment, there would be no arena in Lake Placid still. And I, they would have had to find a rink down the street somewhere to play the rest of that game. And then the goal stands. And, and, and, was that a, was that a delay, Mike, or did they, did they call a goal right away? Because there's no reason. I know, there's no goal. Yeah. Because I, in my memory, and I'd have to go back and check, everybody's kind of looking over to make sure that they were going to score the goal. And, and, and, and, and, and, and when they do, and, and then our kids, you know, they sprint off the ice, you know, it's almost, they're sprinting off the ice, almost like they're afraid. Yeah, it's always tied. It's tied. Yeah. If we're in locker room, I can't take that goal away. Yeah. Yeah. And, and in that moment, one of my writing here was Pete Hamill, Hamill used to say, the template was cut. All of a sudden, all of a sudden, we, again, the night had changed. The moment had changed. And the possibilities had now hope had come in. It was, it was, it was hope had come into that arena. Because, and, and I think I think it was Mark Johnson in the doc who went, you know, they fell behind again. I know I was about to ask that. Yeah. I fell behind it. And he said, if we can get the first goal of the third period, we're in this. And, and, and, and they did. And again, he was their best player. They're, they're two best players. I mean, Jimmy became a giant that night. Kenny Moral who ended up, ended all those Stanley cups with, with the Isle of theirs. And Mark were, were, were the two best players. And Johnson has now gone on to become a great coach of the West team. Oh, yeah. At the University of Wisconsin. And, you know, he was another guy on that team. Well, if you saw him in street clothes, you would have thought he's somebody looking for his mommy. I mean, he does. Yeah. You know, these are the guys who were going to slay the dragons. And again, they looked like a bunch of rink rats playing a Peewee game at six o'clock in the morning. Oh, because they were. They were just like little kids. It's so crazy. They call themselves big dolies. They were little, but they call them, they, that was their nickname. They call themselves the big dolies. And, yeah. Oh my god. Last night when I saw Jackie O'Callahan in the post in the press conference, I was sitting in the front row. You were there for that? Oh my god. Yeah, he was half a trace by the time he showed up. Because what we had heard was he, I think he had been selected for drug testing. He couldn't pee. That's what we had heard. And so he's down and beer. So I'm telling him he's half in the back by the time he gets there. And that's when he said he was from Charlestown. And we won at Bunker Hill. And we won at Bunker Hill. Somebody just politely said, on Jack we didn't, we didn't win at Bunker Hill. And he said, well, you saw. I don't want to hear that. I don't want to hear that. Mike, that response, I don't want to hear that. It was so Boston. It was so Charlestown. Because when I remember, at one point, he just stretched out on the table in front of his teammates. Is he's with his head, you know, his head in his hand. Is he's answered, oh my god. That was such that that was a fun day. I'll tell you another story about the filling game. Because I had only seen Herb's comment about you'll take it to your fucking grave in the original documentary. It's that's not in the movie. Yeah, that's right. That's right. That's right. So now the filling game is over and that game, by the way, again, I'm testing my memory. But I believe it was played at 11 o'clock on Sunday morning. It's playing really early. Really? Yeah. And of course, you know, you can call behind again because that's what they did. But now it's over. They won the gold medal. Okay. And it's time for the, you know, we're kind of writing, starting to write. And then we realize that the metal ceremony is going to take place. And I remember saying to David Israel, I said, you know, we ought to, we ought to take a walk back over there. Because with these guys, there's always the possibility that something's going to happen. Yeah. And I'm sure enough, you can watch it a thousand times and not know how they all ended up on that metal plate. How they got, it's, I've always said the real miracle, the real miracle was when Michael waved them up and they all ended up on where he had been standing during the national anthem. Yeah. It's so great. It's the perfect picture. It's like, it's impossible. What that happened. Yeah. It's like, I asked him about the shot and he said, and I think he might have said this in the documentary. He thought he pulled it and he said, that puck is a foot to the left or right wherever he says, I'm painting bridges for a living. And he didn't know how much his life had changed in that moment, but, but it had. And, you know, I've gotten to know Rob McClannahan in the in recent years, because he's a stepfather, a very good family friend. And so I thought he was great last night, by the way. Me too. Yeah, me too. And, you know, when he was talking about how her gun on him, I mean, that might be the most dramatic scene in the movie is when I've heard likes into him. And basically called some gutless, but when Mark about the Rob could basically not walk the shot of him on the bench when they were like Mike stood like that's those are. I've, I've long said that obviously I'm biased as a hockey guy. I think miracles, the greatest sports movie ever made. I think it is. As far as authenticity and getting it right, really honoring the game of hockey showing good hockey being played. We talked about it all the time. It's why Shorze is so good. I don't know if you've ever seen that show, but they cast real hockey guys. So, you know, the hockey looked good. The historical elements were so good. The action, the action in that movie. I think I saw once how they did it with the rolling camera and they took you into the middle of the action. And I'll tell you something. Yes. Russell got screwed that year. How he did that. Oh my god. Like listen, I covered it. It's insane. It was so crazy. He's so great. He should have gotten the Oscar simply for his speech before the Soviets game. Okay. And I, you know, I spent a lot of time around her then and then when he coached the Rangers, he became her Brooks. That scene in the actual movie where when it's over, he's by himself out in the hallway. It's one of the most beautiful moments. No, that movie. I've always, there's two movies I always say you cannot turn off if you're, if you're remote surfing. If you come with him in any case, one is a few good men. Okay. Because you know you got a correct. That's really great call. Great call. You're a lawyer and an officer and you're under arrest. You son of a bitch. So you know you're going to hang in until Nicholson gives his speech. Okay. But Miracle is the other and and you know, you guys know my son's act. You know, if you're known far and wide is the good guy. Mike boys, I have three sons. They grew up. They, they embraced this story from the time they were all up because they knew how much it had meant to me. So they memorized the original documentary. They fell in love with the movie Miracle and they were the first, Zach was the first to tell me that I didn't even know this documentary. It was coming until, yeah, till Zach told me about it and you know, I call him last time. I said, Zach, what time is it going to drop? He said, Dad, I think it's already dropped. It's already up. Yeah. I just went in. I went into a room and I closed the door and and I texted Zach about 10 minutes in and said the following. I am crying already. It was. Okay. It was so that kind of moment and it remains that kind of moment for me. So perfect, perfect transition into what I wanted to bring up next because we were the same way. And then we had in doctorated us with this. We watched that original documentary from the time that our brains could process things. This movie came out. We've seen it a billion times as hockey players in 2004 when this movie came out. Every coach you ever had would then do the herbys to you and say again, again, again, again, like this. Yeah. Was a part of our lives as it is a part of every hockey player's life. I couldn't believe having seen every documentary that's ever been made about this, having seen the movie 3000 times. This doc was unbelievable with how many new things and it was like I was just interrupting the I had never seen that clip of Rob McClannahan standing on the bench because he couldn't sit because of the No, I forgot that. I completely forgot that until last night and for God. So somebody had said that made the press months, you know, Rob Rob doesn't sat down like that. That stuff's crazy and it's the audio of herb. That was super emotional for me. I can't even imagine for you. It was super emotional for me hearing all those sound bites of herb because I feel like most of us haven't heard or seen any of that stuff. So for you having been there, Mike, how emotional was this doc, you know, reliving like we joked around watching it. I can't fucking believe that Lake Placid got in the Olympics. Like that potent little town. Some of the footage was crazy. And then all of these moments, all of the elements like the check game, seeing the US run up the score and then they start cheap shot and Mark Johnson like we didn't know about that stuff. Yeah, that one. That one. Unbelievable that there was still more stuff to be told about this more shots to be seen. It was unreal. I can't imagine what it felt like for you reliving. Well, here's the thing. And you got the sense listen to the guys last night talk about her was on them. He was much tougher on us. He was a real. Oh, no, you were sick. Yeah, he was in the ass. I mean, I don't know if you've heard the stories. He sometimes he wouldn't even come in after he'd send Craig Patrick who's one of the guys. Oh, right. I forgot about that. We didn't get to talk to the players. We'd have to wait outside in freezing cold temperatures to talk to the players. And even the night of the Soviets game, you know, you want to talk about the movie that was within the movie. It was the streets of Lake Placid after we beat the Soviets that night because it started to snow. It was like, you know, it's like a production designer. So we need a little falling snow gentle snow. Guys are outside and they don't be cowboy hats. You know, those ridiculous, the ridiculous, beautiful. But as you walked around Lake Placid that night because nobody wanted the night to end, you would see pockets of Americans. I mean, I get emotional just thinking about this standing on street corners, singing God Bless America or the national. Just stopping and starting to sing not not drunkenly just caught up in this moment because everybody knew in that town that they had experienced something that they were never going to do. And again, the game was played like a five o'clock in the afternoon. That was the one thing that they kind of made a movie moment of last night because people aren't watching the game live in the United States. Yeah, right. No, that's the other thing in the modern world of where everybody knows everything immediately. Okay. Imagine kind of keeping that button up. What did you have to do, Mike? What did you have to do? It was possible. Well, the biggest, here's what I found out later, like the anchor men on the nightly news. We're saying, okay, if you don't want to know the final score of the US Soviet high game, like turn off your set right now. So I mean, it's not like we had contained it in Lake Placid that night. I'll tell you great story because you find, you found out great stories from friend of yours who wanted to tell you where they were, what was happening in New York City or wherever they were. A lake friend of mine named Mike Pearl, who was the original producer of the NFL today. He's responsible for NFL pregame shows. And he was on a flight from Kennedy to Phoenix during the game. He had to be in Arizona. And they left an hour late out of Kennedy. And as they're getting close to Arizona, the pilot comes on and he said, well, I've got some good news and I've got some bad news. He said, the bad news is, even though we left an hour late, we're still going to land on time. And Mike said, it was on planes going, well, why is that bad news? He said, the good news is the United States just beat the Soviets in hockey and he said the plane went back ship. Somehow champagne appeared with the flight attendants and they had this instant party unlike an America West flight or whatever it was about to land in Phoenix, Arizona. All time experience like the greatest flight ever. No, again, all we kept thinking, even as we're sitting down to write our stories is, the whole world is about to find out what we just saw. And to use the words of the great Jack Buck, I don't believe what I just saw. And then the word starts to get out and then the next day you saw the instant block parties outside in New York City. And you saw what was happening in Boston and all of a sudden, like plastic became the capital of the universe. It became and there was one, but there was still one more game to play with the red socks. Where the red socks finally beat the Yankees in 2004, Theo F. Steve, the general manager had a great line. He said, now we got to be Finland and maybe the Carlos in the World Series. So inland had become almost like a buzz word by the end. And then we fall behind and I will always prefer these. These are my guys. So I will always prove it is as we and you think, oh, no, no, no, no, no, going into the third mic behind. It wasn't like behind early in the first, like literally going into the third period, you're losing to believe that. Yeah. And that's like that. I think that we found out last night that it's such a great scene is when they tell the story of her saying to your fucking grave and then repeating it to your fucking great. Yeah, I said, that's the first time we ever heard a museum. Yeah. And you would have picked a way he lit into them. You would have thought he'd be dropping F bomb the whole time. Every day and all day. But apparently maybe, you know, that was that nice sort of boy who didn't want to talk like that for his players. Yeah. It's true. I think my favorite part of the doc was hearing about the Jack O'Callhan and Phil Verkota speech. Yeah. Then being in that locker room. Oh, see, getting up. No, you get chills. No, I still get chills here in the stories. I mean, I, yeah, I, because. Oh, that was the other thing that was great last night because I have to tell you Craig Patrick. Yeah. I think that's the thing that I think is one of the sweetest guys on earth. Yeah. Herbs. Herbs in him into the locker room. And I think it was McClan was in McClan and said, Craig, no, we got this. We're not losers. Get out of here. I think it was. I think it was O.C. Yeah. I think he was like, we're fine. Yeah. That's like that. And then the man. Herbs says to Craig. How did he go? I guess. Yeah. Yeah. Everything perfect. Like if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if friend wide. I said we need to go down there and talk to them because they're about to screw up the greatest story of all time. So it's just it was just reason with them and explain to them that we can't have this thing go off the rails, you know, like five minutes before the before the exit. Yeah. Fortunately, when did you start to feel good Mike? Like when it went yeah, like two. No, that's not too, not too, not too, not too, but I think it's 42. Yeah, right? Yeah, yeah, 42. Oh, no, I wasn't spiking. No, no, it's 32. I'm not spiking the ball. Okay. Yeah, because I'm already having PTSD on Friday night on, on trying to protect a one goal lead for 10 for those 10 minutes that felt like 10 years off of my life. Those 10 minutes by the way, they, and I'm so glad the players described it the same way. Yeah, being, you know, in the arena, really in the arena was, yeah, we all we all lost a lot of time off of our lives waiting for that stinking clock to run down. Longest 10 minutes in sports history. I yeah, it's you said it's so perfectly, Mike, it's um, we always think about these moments. I'm also growing up as Bruins fans in, I think it was 2013. They had that insane down 4 1 and game seven against Toronto. They came back, beat them in overtime. And then when they lose that Stanley Cup to Chicago, it's almost like that game gets lost in the animal. Toronto game. Yeah, yeah, yeah, win it all. And it's like, I'm sure it must, you know, for someone that's not even talk about the players and herb and Craig and all that. But like, I'm sure even for you, like it would keep you up in a cold sweat at night until you're dying days if they had lost that Finland game. Because it's like truly the greatest moments in sports history potentially could have been lost to history. That is so wild to think about. Yeah, I, I um, that, that team and those two weeks and what they did that last weekend, that's like, like a bank account that I'll be able to draw on for a while. Because when somebody tells me, yeah, but you should have seen this happen in sports and you should have seen this or wow, you should have been at that game. And I'll say, yeah, I'll see you in whatever game you're talking about. And I'll raise you with, with Lake Plastic, New York February of, of 1980. Because I can't, I've tried to imagine what could be a comparable story to that in this country. And I think, well, maybe if men's soccer, you know, the women of one, the group cup, okay, maybe if men's soccer, somehow shocked the world and and and and won the world cup. But even that wouldn't be what we saw from those kids in that time, in that time in the world, in that crazy little town, you know, again, I can't stress to you what pain the ass the whole experience it was outside of those games. I'll give you another Reno Tomassi line. The buses would not run. There are all these horrible stories about people getting stranded waiting for buses and, you know, like zero degree temperature. And we found out that that John Brown, the famous abolitionist had died in Lake Plastic. One day, I see Reno Tomassi again outside and he's shaking his head again. It says Mike, Mike, Mike, John Brown was not hang it was bus it. Oh, my God. But fortunately, I could walk for when we had a big contingent from the daily news, we had this big house in town. We could walk to the arena. And and I will tell you, I've taken some great walks in my life in sports. But finally, walking back to that place that night after after it was four three over the Soviets forever, that's as good a walk as I've ever taken in my life. Mike, would would, would the Soviets have gotten gold if we lost to Finland? Because I know it was like a weird, it wasn't just like that was the gold medal game. Because didn't the Soviets get silver at the end of all this? You know what? I don't remember. I think Finland, I don't know if Finland would have gotten not taking was the gold medal game. You guys you guys are no better than I. And if you can't figure it out, just ask. Yeah, yeah, you're right. I will ask that. But yeah, because it's like crazy. But I mean, it was all or nothing for us. I, I, I, if you told us, you could get a bronze, even if you lose, they would, they, they would have taken you outside and wanted to beat you for even suggesting. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Because they were very close. They were that close to, to the mountaintop. And, and yeah. So I, I'm trying to think now that now you guys are giving me PTSD because now I'm trying to measure how stressed I was over the last 10 minutes or how stressed I was with 20 minutes to go. Yeah. It was a little game. And, and we're still losing. And, and, yeah, I'm telling you like, if, if Chris had been alive during that event, oh, dude, that third pier, that third period would have killed him. I genuinely don't think you would have survived. Chris is the most negative sports fan who's ever lived. Yes. Every single time there's a bad play, he goes, that's it. We've lost. We're over. Sky's falling. Going into the third period down to Finland, I think this would have literally died. I think he would have walked correctly. Oh, he would have walked into Lake Placid and drowned himself and not finished the game. That's what would have happened. But it's getting it's incredible. You think back now to the biggest points of light. And, and you can't, you know, obviously Mark's goal at the end of the first period of the Sonya's game. Okay. Obviously Michael Arruzioni's goal that became the game with her. Billy Baker, tying, think about that. For all of the victories that came, all the rousing victories that came later, a tie, a tie set up everything. And, and then you'd have to go back and I, I'm trying to picture the last save Jimmy made. But I, in my memory, whatever it was, it was a good one. He was making kick saves like, you know, it's, it's, it's one of those things where you almost wanted to go up to him and said, you know, you couldn't, you can't make that save. Would you? Yeah. Get out of here. And no, it was, when I used to joke with our Michaels who, who just turned about to be the perfect guy for the perfect place at the perfect time. And if you listen with all, by the way, he loved Ken Dryden was a dear friend of his till the day. Oh yeah. Ken, but if you listen to the call, Al's about to make the most famous call in the history of sports. And Ken, he's kind of talking. Yes. He's like doing play by play still. I'm talking and I ran into Al. Not at long after the movie came out and I said, you know what? Ken, he's still trying to screw up the greatest. Yeah. Yeah. Yes. Yeah. I'm casting. That is so funny. It is so true. No, but you listen. You guys. Oh my, it's like, I always laugh. It's like we, we, that, that call is ingrained in all of our memories. So, so deeply. But every time I hear it, you can hear Al. He kind of screams it because he's like, Ken, shut the fuck up. Like I'm trying to say something here, Pat. There's a lot of commotion going on while he says it. It's so funny. No, there was a lot going on at once. And, and I, again, when you looked up and saw only zeroes on that support, and you said yourself, okay, okay. Sometimes, you know, because I always say to people, they'll say, that shouldn't happen. And that shouldn't happen in sports. I said, no, no, no. There's no justice in sports. It's not like the sports gods are up there and say, well, I'll take this one, but I'll give you one down the road. There was going to be no down the road. It was, it was that night or, or nothing. And, and, and they delivered. And all those herbys came back. And I love them saying, giving you the sense that they knew that they could skate with them, not necessarily that they could beat them, but that in the shape they were in, that they, that they could skate with them. And, and in the, in the real, in the movie, Miracle, you know, when he does those short shifts at the ends, you know, and, and they, it, it, it feels like they just keep, they keep coming off the, over the boards and like waves. And it, it all worked because of this man's vision. And again, you can't talk about this story. This is the single greatest coaching job in, to my mind, in the history of sports, that, that, you know, it's, it, what, what, faith is is believing what you cannot see. Only he could see this. Only he could see this. And, and, and it's just such a shame. He died way too young. And remember that little thing at the end of the movie, you know, yes, he didn't live long enough to see it, but, but he lived, he lived it. Yep. It's kind of crazy, Mike, that he never got to, to, to, to chime in on the movie or in this, like it's, it's, because you, like you said, he kept it so private during the actual events. It's wild. We never really got to hear her talk about it after the way the players have been able to. I think he had some input into Miracle, for sure, the movie. I think he was. I, I think, I think he was. I'd have to act Mark Jardy, but I think he was. And that was, you guys are right, though, that was a beautiful thing having his kids in that, in that time. It was because he was, A, how much they loved their father, but B, how much they knew their father. And, and they're talking about him. Almost to me, this is what struck me last night. They're talking about him, like they were players like, yeah, yeah, yeah, there's no one. There's nothing you can tell us that we don't already know. Yep. You know, they were on that journey. What blows, what blows my mind so much about this doc is, you know, to go back to what you said about the sports gods and to what we were saying earlier about how, how great the, the 2004 Miracle movie is. Yeah. I feel like so often we watch movies now that are based on a true story inspired by a true story. And then you kind of look up the true story. And it's really not that similar to how it went down, like another all time sports movie. Remember the Titans. If you look up the actual scores of those games in that season, they weren't that close. TC Williams or wheels off of everyone they played. Right. The true, not to know pun intended, the miraculous nature of that movie. And this real event is it, it's the most scripted feeling thing I've ever seen in my life. It's like everything that you just ran down the, you know, the, the tying Sweden, the, the situation, we haven't even gotten into the situation with the Cold War and the Soviets and holding out of or saying they were going to boycott some Olympics. Everything about this Olympic Games felt like it was written for a movie right down to the, the final score line and the game winning goal of the game. And Dan, Dan, I'll add the telegraphs, right? Mike, like the telegraphs they hope are that seat is, all those that wall are you kidding me? Oh my God. That's so long. Yeah, yeah. That is like that is I don't know that I never seen that wall before. And, but how about just the beginning of the documentary with with, I was talking about was that today? Like they're walking down the street like the magnificent seven, you know, and, and all this time later, it was like I really you would like it, even though it was the beginning of the documentary, you felt like you were watching the end of an old western, you know, yeah, here, here come the old gunslingers back, you know, to the okay corral, you know, and I that was shot so beautifully. And, and incredible. And you know what, you get a sense when you, when you look at old pictures and the new pictures, a little bit. That town is, that town is saying time, you know, it is. Yeah. I, that was the most shocking thing. Yeah, the, of the doc, like looking at the shots of late class, and I was like, this is, this is the Olympics, Dan, the Olympics are there. It's crazy. It would be like, it would be like, you know, my, my kids, they grew up in, in New Canada, Connecticut, and it would be like they had the Olympics in New Canaan, you know, they're like, when ranks were, were Alex, played Peewee's hockey. Like we, we always joke, Mike, we're like genuinely, it's like if they did this in Bit of Ferdinand, and you're like, yeah, that's pretty much what you can make. That's what lambo's guys, that's what lambo's like. I mean, if you ever get a chance, you, you know, I've been lucky enough to go twice with Zach Lupica, okay? It's, it's, I grew up in on night in New York, okay? In the middle of New York State. It's like they built, it would have been like building lambo field on Earl Avenue in, you know, night. That's what it was like having this. And, and, you know, as I said before, over the years, that crowd has grown for about 8,000, to about 800,000 people. Yeah. Who's to say they were there that night. And that's okay. Cause they got like, but I was, I was, and I'll never get it. So I do want to, I want to ask finally here, Mike, what were for you, someone who lived this and experienced this? What were the most, maybe you could say surprisingly emotional moments of the doc for you, whether it be reliving or whether it be something that happened that you didn't know about that you were like, oh my God, I had no idea that that was going on. What, what, what parts hit you the hardest? I became emotional last night watching my carousel Yoni describe the house in which he had grown up. And I believe his father was a bartender, among other places, it's Santarpio's pizza, which is, yeah, all times, I know it well. Yeah, I know it well. Right, right. Okay. It's great. Okay. But describing that moment with his uncle, where he earned the money to go to hockey school and his uncle wouldn't take the money from him. I, you know, I'm an Italian American kid. He's an Italian American kid. And that, that was to me. There were other extremely emotional moments last night, what, hearing Herb's voice again, you know, I'm still in grain now to thinking Herb is Kurt Russell. And as much as Kurt got down his, you know, that kind of midwestern twang, okay. And those horrible pants, remember the horrible pants? All the jackets too. I mean, it was a lot like Herb's style was very interesting. It was not going to make any stressless. Okay. But hearing his voice was most of, but Mike Arousione talking about his family and Jimmy talking about his mom, I had Jim back in the day when I was still doing a radio show in New York, I had Jim on a couple of times. And he, you can imagine he had become a great public speaker by that. I mean, he was, you can see he has great presence. He has great command of the language. And there's something else going on with Jenna Craig, an alightability factor. The minute he started and the minute he, not just talking about his late mother, but talking about Don, his father. So no, I know I, about every 15 minutes, I would text my son last night and say, okay, I'm crying again. I'm crying. Yeah. Yeah. Because I get that way when I watch Miracle the Movie. I get that way when, because the thing that they really captured in that movie was the drama of the last moments of the Soviet game. I mean, that's like a master class to me and filmmaking. If you're, if your job is to try to make the viewer feel like they're there, they did that. But so did this documentary last night that those scenes of them walking in and out of the arena. I mean, how cool is that? That was incredible. That was so awesome. I honestly, I weirdly think for me, obviously, I didn't live through this, but we have a massive connection to it. Watching the guys, watching. I was gonna say this. Well, having that, it was so brilliant of the filmmakers of this doc to have them sitting on the bench where they played this game and looking up at a screen and watching the reliving this moment. The scene that turned into kids again was so emotional for me. That was remarkable. Because we had heard, and I had heard, once I became aware of it, that, you know, this was going to be like a new look at it. And I'm thinking, well, wait a minute, what don't we know? What don't we know? I mean, it's like burned into our memory and burned into our imagination. I've always said this about sports. And I've written it more times than I care to think about. When something great happens in sports, you do not need to see it replayed a million times. You do not have to wait to watch it again on Sports Center. It is burned into your heart, and it is burned into your imagination. And it will remain there vividly forever. So I'm thinking, okay, I was there. I saw all this. And this was new last night. It was like looking, it's like going to a museum and a picture of you'd seen before. And then saying, oh, wait, if I step and look at it from this angle, it's even better than I thought it was before. I don't know how they pulled it off, but putting those guys in that arena. And remember what it was like watching last dance with Michael Jordan, when they'd hand them the iPad. And the iPad. Yeah, be looking at some and get that grin on his face. This was different because as again, you saw what you saw in these these faces of men now in their 60s was them becoming the little boys. Who had who's parents in taking them to the brink at 530 in the morning, they became those kids again, last night. What it meant to their families, right? Like they all said that in their own interviews. Yeah, to my mom when it meant to my family, what it meant to my community. That was that was killer. That was unreal. And no, I've got moments. And it's like, when you think about these moments, especially years later, right? 46 years later, the first thing that must come into your mind is, I've got to wish I could relive this with the boys again. And that's kind of what they did in this doc. Yes. Then being able to watch these games, watch these plays, watch these interviews that I'm sure many of them haven't seen for decades and be able to look down the bench at their teammate and laugh about it again. That was, I mean, holy moly was that special. That was so great. And they've had this share of, of, tragedy. I mean, yeah. Have a story is extremely sad. They've lost. Oh, it's terrible. I'm the guy's and they lost the conductor of the orchestra and just and and not because he was ill, he just had an accident and died one one afternoon. And that's what I've always felt. Even though we heard his voice last night, even though we saw Kurt Russell do such beautiful downplaying in the movie, all of this would have been better with, you know, with her being handed an iPad, you know, all the way like the words in the last dance. And you know, I'm from Mike. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Did I say that 10 pound fart? What does that mean? Yeah. Right? Yeah. You know what's great too is you're so right about that. I, I thought it was so lovely how they did dedicate, you know, the last five, 10 minutes of the doc to all of them talking about her and how they're like, I wish I got to know him. Like I wish, you know, he, could have been a friend to us the way we all are to each other. And I think it was moral reading that or maybe it was our rant. Oh, yeah. That was so nice. Yeah. Oh my god. That was so nice. Yeah. And it made me wonder when he read it, if maybe all of them didn't get that letter same by no. Totally. I was like, I don't know. I don't know. Whether he had sent that letter to all of them or just some of them. But that was I was amazed that he could even get through it. You know, that my great without breaking down. Yeah. Unreal. I imagine 95% of the people who watch this doc will then go and watch Miracle within the next few days of watching it. And it's just another reminder to us that retroactively, Miracle deserves like 10 Oscars. It's, it's like, forget about just Kurt Russell needing an Oscar for that role. That when we talk about the, what you just broke down, Mike, like the shots, the way that they recreated these games so perfectly. And then you watch this doc in things as simple as those telegrams, not only being referenced in the movie, but in when they are walking through the tunnel to play the Soviets, you see them tap in their sticks and their gloves on the telegrams tack to the wall, like those little details. It's, it's so wild watching this doc and thinking about the game or about the movie and being like, it's the one of the greatest movies ever made. It's remarkable. It's, we, you know, our youngest child is, is my daughter, him. Okay. Yeah. And pretty much with hockey, even though she went to Boston College, the way her brothers did and hockey is a huge part of the culture at our school. Okay. She really doesn't know hockey puck from an avocado. Okay. And she sat down several years ago and watched Miracle with me. And now it's one of her favorite movies of all time. And she was, her boyfriend is from Dallas and not really a big hockey guy. And he watched it with the other night. And she said, that was like watching it for the first time all over again. Yeah. Yeah. That's the best. That's how I feel too. Like that movie gets me going. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, I think he played Craig Patrick in Miracle the movie. And I, I walked into a coffee shop out on Eastern Long Island and managed to not run up and try to hug him. Yeah. You know, because I feel that, you know, introducing yourself to famous people just he opened yourself up to heartbreak. So I didn't right. But he was great. And all the young actors who played, you know, I forget the name of the young guy who played, uh, uh, Jimmy Craig. And I think it's Eddie K. Hill. Eddie K. He's, yeah, he's fantastic. No. And then one of the one of the actors died. I think Michael Mancuso, I forget which part. Yeah, he played, he played O.C. Yeah. I think one of the actors actually died. Young. You're right about that movie. And obviously we're all prejudiced about it. Okay. But you love the sport. Yes, we love it. Even more than we love this work. But it, it, it was, it was a perfect piece of filmmaking. But again, it's like, you know, this is before your time, the old television series, Masha. Everybody in Masha in Masha was great. It was one of the greatest written scripted shows of all time. But it doesn't work without Alan Alda playing Hawkeye Pierce. And, and, and, uh, Kurt Russell was Hawkeye Pierce in, in, in, in, in, in Miracle. And again, I just would love to have Herb's voice even now going over it all one more time. And, and, and again, and, and just saying, yeah, but we, you know, we, we, we did it. What, what's the line in the pregame speed? Um, uh, great moments are born out of great opportunity or something like that. Yeah, it's the greatest pregame speech. It's the greatest speech of all time. Hey, Mike, and I always say that, um, that they found the card, you know, like, remember when those kids were like, this was the speech, like they had that note card. No, that was awesome. Oh my god. Like a talisman last night. Oh my god. No, holy shit. The sense of appreciation of, of the details, you know, um, it's not always the devil that's in the details. It's sometimes the genius is in the details. Yeah. Those little pizza, pizza pieces of business were just added to the store. Again, I, you know, I, I have no skin in this game. It doesn't help me how popular this documentary becomes, but anybody who's listening to this, um, if, if you don't want to now go see it, then you need to go bowling or something. Right. That's correct. That is correct. It's so true. God. I, but you know, Chris, funny, that note card that you bring up, it makes me think like shout out to Eric Guggenheim, the writer of Miracle because it's like to write that Kurt Russell pregame speech based off of just that note card. And I'm sure some conversations of, you know, how much deeper the speech went, but like, it's just a masterclass. No, it was, it's, it's, and guess what? How many coaches and how many sports do you think have knocked off? Oh my god. Knocked off that speech in, yeah, at least in the last 20 years since the movie came out. Oh yeah. No doubt. Every high school in the world, Mike, and like, we are, we joke all the time. It was like, our coach, we would give it to us. We'd have a playoff game and our coach would give us that speech and he'd walk out and we would all look at each other and be like, the other teams coach just gave them this speech too. Like they just heard the exact same thing. It's all a watch. How about after, how about after, herb just vilifies poor Rob McClannahan for being hurt and then when he walks past Craig, I got a like, he's, they're not gonna get him going. Yeah. Yeah. That's so good. That's so good. Oh, you know, what's cool to, we can, this can be the last thing, but what's cool to is the, um, there was a lot of criticism about how it was so many of the Minnesota boys, but it was like, he knew those guys. I think they say in this, I think Rob even says in this doc, like they knew what bushing buttons to push for those guys, you know, and that's what ended up mattering, right? Like how he could get the most out of those players made such a huge difference. Yeah. And I do just want to say, because Mike, I'm actually curious if you knew this one, this one blew, this one knocked me off my feet in the doc. Steve Janicek meeting his wife there who was it, who was it? That was that. How Craig was that story? What an amazing story. And when Janicek was like, all of all those guys, I, I was the luckiest guy and I had the best experience. And I'm like, fucking writes you did like that. The fact that he met his wife there. And, and, and, and I mean, good God. I love it. Now he, he showed a little bit of, of, I don't even want to call it cockiness, but a little bit of respect for himself as a player. And he was like, I was the MVP of our national championship. I didn't know that. You guys tell that. I didn't. I didn't know that. I didn't know that. Because I even had no idea that he had those hockey bonnepiets going for him. Yeah. Yeah. That he was the best goalie in college hockey and played for her at Minnesota. And the fact that they came into that, those games and, I mean, another one of those amazing stats where he was like, I was the only player in that tournament that did not see a second of ice time. Like that is crazy. And the fact that he went in there and came out of it with a wife is the best. It might be the best story of the whole thing. No. I, I love that story because in Zach Lupin could tell you this, I, I've told his mother for years. If she ever leaves me, I'm going with her. So I can, yeah, I could, I could, I could understand, I could understand completely. What Steve was telling me that like the greatest thing that happened in my life wasn't us winning a gold medal. I got my one. He got a bone with gold medal to go with it. Yeah. Yeah. Like even deeper Mike is like not just the greatest thing that happened in his life. The greatest thing that's ever happened to him in a lake placet. Yeah. Yeah. Not a bad gold medal. No. Yeah. He's gold medal. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. God. That is so good. He left with two. He left with two gold medals. Fucking incredible. Oh, man. Oh my god. Well, what a, what a doc. I recommend if you haven't seen it, go watch the doc, go watch Miracle greatest sports moment of all. Hey, Mike, what's second? That's your greatest sports moment of all time by a mile. What's second? I would say that as a piece. Okay. And that, not rooting anyway to have seen those four nights in October. Yeah. 2004. Not just the first night or the second night or everything that that piece because in my career, if, if Miracle is the number one story, those four nights in October, considering who it was, the Red Sox were doing it too. And what the other team had been doing to them for nearly a hundred years. That's probably the second greatest story I've, I've ever gotten to cover. And it was, I'll tell you one quick story about that. Never go. So I have my boys with me. And they, they go to game four. Okay. And but they're, they had, it's been decided the year before there had been a rain out there at these games at Fenway, they had to miss school and their mother and four of them, they were not going in this school this time. Yeah. Okay. So they play all night. Okay. They play all night. I still have to write a column. But I'm, my car is in a secure parking lot. And so the boys go and wait. And I try to write it because I have to now drive two and a half hours back to. Yeah. Yeah. Right. Knowing there's a game the next night. That night. Yeah. Okay. And Mike will click that's a, that's one of my favorite calls ever by Joe Buck. When he goes, we'll see you later tonight after that home run. Yeah. I love that. Later tonight and, and, but between game four and game five, I said to my wife, you know, honey, the game's going to start at five 30 tomorrow. There's no way they can play all night again. Well, guess what? They played, well, yeah, sure did. Played all night again. And then or T's, nox and Johnny Damon. And, you know, the rest is history. But if, if I had to, if I was ranking them, I don't know, maybe Kirk Gibson's home run would be, I just stayed there that night. But, but miracle. And then that come back to just, because only because it had never happened before. And yeah, probably will never happen again. Mike, were you, were you guys at game three that year? I swear, as Act tells me a story of you were at game three when the, when the socks were getting murdered. 19, 18 was the sit and they, they were sitting up on the wall. And, and, and it's freezing cold. You know, Alex Rodriguez is hit. My boy's job. I need a game for a, okay, that's a game that ended up 19 to eight. Okay. So they went back, they went back to the hotel. And, and then I watched the, the post game stuff. And John Damon, who is, who have known for a thousand years in Frank, and they're saying, well, you know, we've had four game winning streaks before. And, you know, we just got, you know, saying all the right things. Okay. And I'm thinking, okay, they're all, yeah, they're all, they're, they've been either, they've combined, they shouldn't have combined the sedatives they were taking and, and post game beers. And then of course, then Ortiz does what he does. And then Ortiz does it again. And then comes the bloody sock. And then comes, you know, the grand slam in game seven. And then, but that was another time when it became clear that the red socks were going to win game seven. That you can simply, this can't possibly, it wasn't as improbable as beating the Russians. Right. But it was pretty a problem. But it was crazy. Yeah. They want to eat strength. Holy shit. What a moment. Yeah. Okay. Unreal. Mike, thank you so much, man. This was an absolute blast. It was so sick reliving that and hearing your stories is just all time. Well, yeah, that's really. I love you show. I love the way you're growing the sport, but, but all, all you guys there, okay? I tell people it's all the time. It's just a younger, smarter, hyper cooler version. And I love the sports supporters. And I was proud to be on it. But you guys have got, you all got to figure it out there. So God bless you. No, hey, we're following your footsteps, man. You paved the way. Paved the way. Right. I had a blast today. Thank you for letting me relive this one more time because that means that it'll be a while now before I can wear my sons out again, sharing all these. No, yeah, start calling us. Start calling us. Yeah. Exactly. We'll talk to you about this all day long. This is incredible. Thanks for having me, guys. It was a blast. At AJ Bell, we believe every customer deserves brilliant service, which is just one reason we're rated excellent on trust pilot. 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