Michael & Jessica Koulianos | Girls Gone Bible

Hi, I'm Ange. And I'm Ari. And this is Girls Gone Bible. And we are not even going to pretend to have a little intro today because this is an insane day, a beautiful day. I am about to get wrecked emotionally because today we have pastors, Michael and Jessica Cueanos with us. Guys, thank you so much for being here. I'm so happy to be here. I just want to tell you that from the very beginning, this has been like the one thing that if you guys came on Girls Gone Bible, it would fill just so much of my heart because of who you have both been to me and my faith and to Ari. And we just want to honor you guys before we even start. Pastors Michael and Jessica are the pastors of Jesus' image church in Orlando, Florida. They also are doing a lot in Orange County, California. So we kind of have them with us in California sometimes. And I just want to say to both of you, thank you for your ministry, for the way that you love Jesus, for the way that you shepherd your people, God's people. Everything I've learned has been from you guys. I started in ministry having no mentors, no one to look to, no one to learn from, and just kind of being like, Jesus, I have no idea why I'm here or why this is happening. And I don't really know what to do. Tuning into Jesus' image every Sunday for years. My first time coming to Jesus' image was in 2023 with my family. And my family experienced a miracle over the phone within 10 minutes of being at Jesus' image. Somebody who we loved dearly was in jail and we were praying for the longest time for breakthrough. And within 10 minutes of being at Jesus' image, we get a call saying that they're coming out. And so I'll never forget me and my mom. We fall to our knees in the middle of your church service and we're just like, Jesus, you're in this place. And so I learned all about the presence of God through Jesus' image. I learned what it really meant to seek the Lord's face, to seek the presence of Jesus and not to settle for anything less. And we, Ari and I went on tour and it was a really interesting experience because we went on a live podcast tour and we felt the Lord be like, this isn't just a live podcast tour. We're here to minister to people, to preach the gospel and to get people saved. You're not doing a little live podcast tour. And so I'm like, okay, Lord, then what does that mean? What do you want us to do? And I look to you guys, we study Jesus' image, we watch every Sunday and you guys taught me how to pray for healing, how to release words of knowledge, how to lead a room into an encounter with the real true living Jesus Christ. So we want to honor you guys. Thank you. Thank you Lord. Thank you. Thank you for being with us. Every Sunday I get absolutely wrecked by the presence of God through the TV. Wow. And so you guys have changed our life through your ministry. We can't thank you enough. Thank you. Wow. Thank the Lord. Yeah, thanks Jesus. We're privileged to have you here with us. Yeah. It's an honor to have you here. So, Chivas, thanks. I don't know what to say. All glory to the Lord. Well, Girls Gone Bible is what it is today because of you guys. I hope you take that as a compliment. We do. You might not, but I do. Why wouldn't I not? Because a bunch of girls, a bunch of girls. Oh, oh. This is my first podcast with three girls. Yeah, I will say you guys don't do podcasts. So this is like, listen, you don't really do podcasts. I did one with Rich recently. You did. I always saw that. I was laughing the whole time. That was so funny. That was funny. Yeah, but no, I mean, I can sense hunger on both of you. And I know that you, Angela, have been flying in to come to church and it's really humbling. I don't really have words other than when the Lord comes, He draws people. And I think in our early days, we probably thought He was coming because we were doing all these, all the right things. And I think there's truth to that Biblically. Like you do have to follow His pattern, but at the end of the day, He comes because of mercy. And so thank you for being here. We're just, I don't know, a few hundred yards from the new church. And it's a privilege to have you. Thanks for making the time. Yeah, thank you so much. Yeah. Thank you guys. All right. Well, let's get into it. We want to know who you guys are, how you found Jesus. You both have incredible backstories of not fully being in the faith, coming to faith. Jess, you grew up in ministry. Michael, you didn't. And this is, am I right? Yeah, absolutely. And I know there's so many different layers to your guys' stories. And then you find each other and start serving Jesus together, get married. I love your story so much. So whoever wants to go first, however you want to tell. Yours is more sinful. It is. I'll make yours look better. So we make our people feel better. After mine. Yeah, grew up in church my whole life. My dad is in ministry, so it's all I've ever known. And traditional pastor's kid, like I hate to say that, but the norm is we typically run from God at some point in our life. And so just completely ran away from the Lord, wanted nothing to do with God, started to run at like 13, 14, just a mess at all the things that you could imagine. And I went to a Christian university, got kicked out of that university, deserved it. And I totally deserved it. And well, for so many things, he loves the story. I might have. The prayer fountain one. I might have. It was a hot summer day, and I might have gotten a beer and a floaty and went and the prayer gardens and enjoyed myself. It was on a wrap. That's not why I got kicked out, believe it or not. But I don't even know if I got caught in a bathing suit. Yeah, it was a hot summer day. It was like it was over 100 degrees when I was bored. I was there at summer school because I was failing. I know, yes. But yeah, completely ran from God. And then when I did get kicked out of, you know, Christian university, which again, I deserved it. I take full ownership for that. Just hit like a big rock bottom and realized that like I had nothing to show for my walk with God. I was kind of just I felt like a loser. And honestly, I was acting like one and hit like a good rock bottom and started to talk to the Lord again for the first time since I was a child. He was so merciful. I could feel his presence the moment I talked to him and started to follow the Lord. And shortly after met Michael and we started to, you know, date with the intention of getting married. I think we call it courting. That's such a charismatic term. Church words. Yes. And then just everything changed then. And I've, you know, had my ups and downs for sure. But the Lord has been so faithful and merciful and it just blows my mind like we meet now our church. We are until our building is built. We are meeting at the church my dad built. So like I always look around the room and I'm like, wow, I was running from the Lord in here and hated God. And here I am with my children serving God in the same building. It's just the details of the Lord are phenomenal. Can we talk about the really quick? OK, so your building that you're at now in Orlando was your father's building where he ministered 20 years ago. Gosh, maybe longer than that. 89. 84 it was done. Oh, yeah. And you guys 41 years. Oh, God, 41 years ago. And you guys got filled with the Holy Spirit right next to each other at the same night. Can you tell us about that? Yeah, we didn't know about that actually because he's what were five years apart. Four. I think it's five. But I'm 43 year. It's four and a half, right? Anyway, so there was a night on. It was a Wednesday night church service where my dad called all the young people up and said the Holy Spirit is going to be so tangible tonight and he wants to impart his power into their lives. And so I remember going on the stage and Michael did too. But we just figured this out maybe a few years ago. We were talking about the moment that we met the Holy Spirit. And I was like, oh, my gosh, you're on the stage where you were the kids that was crying next to me. He's like, I was on the stage right over here. I was like, me too. So it's wild. Crazy. You guys. Oh, yeah. Yeah, her dad actually. So I had gotten saved. And then I had heard about the baptism of the Holy Spirit through my cousin who was a Greek Orthodox priest. He was a very powerful theologian and he had read Good Morning, Holy Spirit, which is the book her dad wrote. And if there were ever a balanced liturgical seasoned strong man, it was my cousin, Father Sam, who was also in the Marines, was a chaplain there, lectured at the seminary, the Orthodox seminary. So just a very strong, solid man. And now he gets filled the Holy Spirit and starts ministering in the gifts of the spirit. I was an altar boy and there was a just a very pronounced difference. And so he gives us this book, long story short. Her dad actually led me to the Lord in that building. And then I had heard about the baptism of the Spirit. I had seen what the power of the Holy Spirit can do to a family and a community. Watching the before and after similar to Peter, right? Peter denies the Lord post Pentecost. He preaches the same people who killed the Lord. And so you see these marked differences and lives that you're familiar with. And so Pastor Benny, so I had been seeking the Lord for this touch from heaven for maybe six months to a year as a 12 year old boy. And I had always been offered like what I felt wasn't the real deal, just to be honest. Can you talk? Yeah, like old women, old Pentecostal women would come up and be just like repeat after me. It was all about like tongues or all about like this language. And I knew there was something more because I had experienced the presence of the spirit. I had seen true miracles growing up and obviously I value all the gifts of the spirit, but I didn't want to repeat after someone. Yeah. I wanted my own story. I wanted God's fingerprint on my own life. And so Pastor Benny said, after like six months, it was really funny. Actually, growing up, Greg Orthodox, I said, well, maybe if I buy a new icon and put it in my room and pray in front of my icon, I'll get baptized in the spirit. And so like for a month and a half as a 12 year old, I would pray for six to eight hours a day. Yeah. And nothing happened. So then I said, take me back to the icon shop in Tarpon. And they took me and I said, maybe if I get an icon with a candle connected to it, because I had heard it was the baptism of the Holy Spirit and fire. So I said, maybe I need some fire on my own. So I lit the candle. That didn't do it. And then I went back to church. My parents drove me back with all these Greek Orthodox people from Tarpon Springs to her dad's church, but almost three hour drive. And Pastor Benny said, next Wednesday, I'll teach them the baptism of the spirit. Wow. And something leapt in me. And I told my mom, my sweet mom, I said, you've got to take me back, mom. And then imagine you're just shuttling somebody three hours each direction. I owe so much to my parents, you know. Yeah. Well, and sure enough, he taught and faith was leaping in my soul. He taught for about two hours on the baptism of the Holy Spirit. And he called people forward and that was the night. I went down to so it's like undeniable that the Holy Spirit met me that night. Yeah, it was something to this day. I cannot shake it. And I was eight. I was eight years old. Yeah. Wow. So the Lord's been so faithful to us. Yeah. What an insane story. All the crossover, all the connection. And then so Pastor Michael, you are you've given us a little bit of your story. And then so what is the rest of your teens into adulthood look like? Oh, geez. I started preaching at 16 in a little Bible study. Um, I was this was after my parents took me to Pastor Benny's. Gosh, for four years by this time I'm a junior in high school and my background is golf. So I was being recruited to play for, you know, the best schools in the country. And I felt the Lord actually called me to RU, but I didn't want to go there. Just they weren't very good at golf. Oh. Oh. Yeah. There's the difference between man and woman. Right there. Yeah, they weren't, they just weren't. Yeah. And it was cold there. I remember my recruiting visit was November in Tulsa. And I'd always wanted to play for the Gators in Gainesville here at University of Florida. But I knew the Lord was calling me to Tulsa to RU. I just couldn't do it. And it was the wrong call. Spiritually, I'm grateful for all I learned at UF, but I think God's perfect plan was that I'd gone to RU. Do you, can I interrupt you? Yeah, please. So are you saying that you feel like you kind of missed God's really? Okay. Because there's a lot of messaging that like you can never miss what God has for you and like what, what do you think about that? I don't see that in the Bible at all. Yeah. I mean, there are, I mean, from the story of Eden, people miss it. Cain certainly missed it. The kings of Israel certainly missed it. David missed it. God was merciful, but any time you remove the ability to miss it, free choice, you remove the ability to love. So, but the Lord will turn it around. He can if you yield or you can just miss it your whole life. The free will is very, very powerful. God is after our will. It's the seed of the soul. It's the bullseye of the soul. And the Orthodox tradition, we call this the process of theosis. In other words, the, the, the Eastern thought is me becoming me experiencing union with God and by his power, forming me into his image. So eventually the soul is renewed and the mind is renewed and we call this sanctification, but certainly you can resist all that. And I did and went to the University of Florida backslid, backslid actually prior to going because I, I just felt like I was in rebellion towards the end of my high school years and that's not a great place to be. And so I went to school there. I went like a year without ever picking up a Bible and turned professional, eventually played professionally, got injured a bunch. And then I started coaching and then that's when Jessica and I reconnected. Well, you know, she was nine. So I mean, I connected. We didn't like know each other when he went to work. Yeah. And I think she said that time. Yeah. But my, amazingly, my aunt is with the Lord now. This is true. Yeah. Before we were baptized in the spirit, you know, we didn't have connections at the church, so we'd sit in the back like you had to line up back then, which is wild similar to now. Yeah. And so we would get like balcony seats. We'd sit in the back and my aunt said, pointed at Jess when I was 12 and she said, that's your wife. You'll marry her one day. It's unbelievable. And I was like, no way. She's like, yep, that's your wife. I had a unibrow on the Jordan Jersey. Yeah. She had a unibrow. Yeah. You always bring up her unibrow. Yeah. Because it was powerful. That's why I said it for her because I knew it was nice. I've been teaching on unity. I knew it was coming. I've been teaching on unity at the church and I think her unibrow was the two becoming one. Yeah. So she was a Middle Eastern girl who hadn't discovered grooming. I was eight. Jess. Yeah. I was eight. The Jess was for Jess. Yeah. Man. But where were we? Yeah, how the RGC. Oh, she said that. And then, yeah, so then fast forward, I go to college backslide and then in 03, my brother started dating her cousin at O R U. So Jess actually had gone. Yeah, that's the cool thing. After I had left O R U, I went back because God gave me a dream for my cousin. And so I went back to tell her a dream I had and I met his brother who was going to O R U. After again, I never met him when I was there. I happened to just meet him going back to see my cousin. And as soon as I saw his brother, the Lord was like, that's Rachel's husband. So I played a part in introducing them, my cousin and his brother. And then when I met his brother, he was like, oh my gosh, we went to your dad's church. Like we grew up going to your daddy's church. And I was like, OK, cool. And he was like, you've got to meet my brother. And that's how the Lord brought us back together. Yeah. And then in 03, I was living in Vegas in Gainesville between the two. And yeah, so I came out. My brother's like, you need to come visit her. And I did. I'd seen a picture of her. I was like, whoa. And the Unibrow. And the Unibrow. One more Jordan Jersey. And so I flew to Orange County. They were living in Dana Point at the time. And when she opened the door, the Lord said, that's your wife. That was that. And then her dad offered me a job. And I left everything. And then I moved my whole life to Orange County. This is completely off topic. But I am curious, because growing up in church, being in the world for a little bit, you guys come together. You both had a life in a past. I'm wondering when you guys came together, was there, did the Lord have to do a work of reconciliation between who you guys were at that moment, who you were in your past? Was there shame that had to be dealt with? Good question. It's a really good question. For me, I was kind of going through that process right when I met Michael. And did just to be really raw and honest. I remember, I would always say things to myself when I was in the world. Like, I never want to be one of those Christians that won't go to a club or won't do this. And I was kind of like, you know how you try to talk yourself into maybe living in mixture a little bit? And so when I met Michael, because we were both coming out of the world, and we met, I think the first time was in Orange County. But then he was working in the summers in Vegas when we were dating. So I would go visit him. And I remember I said, let's go to the club or something like that. I was like, we're finding God, but we can still go to the club. And he said, I'll never forget it. He said, I think those days are done for us. I was like, what do you mean? He's like, I think those days are done for us. We either need to be going after God or not. And he goes, I believe with all my heart, you're my wife. And I don't want to mess this up. And because we both did have a past, we had to put really clear boundaries in place so that we didn't slip up or do something we shouldn't do. Because we just did not want to mess up what the Lord was doing. We knew this was a good thing. And so we did have that moment of just kind of going like, we're kind of all or nothing people anyway. But it was the best decision and I had no regrets. I was like, OK, we're done serving the world. Now we're going to serve the Lord. And so we kind of just had that moment and wiped our hands clean of it. And I was thankful that the Lord sent me a godly man that had strength to actually say that to me. And that was helpful because maybe I would have compromised if he didn't like lay it down like that and say, no, we're going after the Lord, no more playing games. Yeah. And we just quickly made that decision. Wow. That's amazing. Yeah, I felt like it was so much God's will. I felt the fear of the Lord around. So that's true. Wow. Of course, I loved her. I honored her dad, his impact on my life. But I also was very aware of the fact that I could blow up. Yeah. What God had planned. And that really freaked me out. Wow. And God's messaging was so clear that there was a real, real, like, awe of God around it. Like I remember her dad one night, we were watching a movie and we always left her bedroom door open and he walks in. I'm on the floor and she's on her bed. And he's like, why are you laying on the floor watching a movie? But that was like the level of like, I'm not, I'm not going here. You know, our, her grandmother and my grandmother used to say, gasoline and fire don't mix. And it's an old like Greek Middle Eastern saying like, she'd say the man has the fire and the woman has the gasoline. The two don't mix. Yeah. And by God's grace, we just, we never went there. We never went there. And, and, and we know a lot of people who did. And unfortunately it's not that God can't forgive, but our experience has been it affected their trajectory because origin is so important. Like the origin of something determines its trajectory. It determines so much. So the root system of anything that we're involved with is massive. And I've just seen the difference over the last 21 years now of marriage, like people who got married around the same time, who maybe didn't have those boundaries, maybe had a different viewpoint on purity. The proof's been in the pudding in their lives and purity. It doesn't fall in your lap. Yeah. Right. Yeah. It comes with, with, with, with, yeah. With like very thought out decisions based on scripture and, and I think we were engaged like 18 months before we got married. It was a long time to engage. Yeah. Well, because I was gone so much. Yeah. I was her dad's assistant. Yeah. There was so much to do. Well, everybody that I talked to is always like have a short engagement because longer dating, short engagement because it gets the lines get weird when you're engaged. It's just like, are we, it just gets harder. So that is amazing. I think our culture helped. I mean, we had like, you marry the family. So like, I had my Greek family, her side. Yeah. I mean, I think we would have been assassinated had we messed it up. Yeah. Like there were a lot of people like Jerry gets on rebuking us, correcting us. We were very accountable to people too. And like, I always say this to our students a lot who are, you know, young and dating and stuff at Jesus School. I'm like, listen, the reason I trust Michael now, because he's on the road, he's always been on the road. He was an evangelist before he was a pastor. I was like, the fact that he had self control not to touch me before our wedding makes me trust him now. Wow. With other women. The fact that he could have control of his members, like the Bible teaches us, you know, like that he had self control makes me as a wife feel better knowing who he is. So that I always tell young people like, you're gonna have your whole marriage. Like, you don't, don't screw it up. Just, just really trust the Lord and put healthy boundaries in place. Boundaries can get weird, but healthy boundaries are needed in those circumstances. Absolutely. And if you have, like, confess it, make restitution, be accountable to the Lord and people. And, you know, don't let the shame of sin keep you from flourishing in the kingdom. But at the same time, that thought process should never be permission to, to willfully break the heart of God. Absolutely. So, yeah. Wow. Thank you guys. Thank you for speaking on that at the very beginning of this episode. It's our favorite thing to talk about. Because honestly, we're two girls who literally couldn't have even fathomed what a life of genuine authentic purity and a pursuit of holiness could mean. Like, you're in the world and you're following Jesus. And we have so many people, I'm sure, who watch who are still living a life of mixture and casual Christianity and just like kind of, or cultural Christianity and just being so casual about their faith and blind. Like, I was following, following, I was encountering Jesus, loving Jesus, literally meeting the Holy Spirit every single day. Like the scriptures coming to life before me and then sinning at the same time. Because the bondage of sin, like the stronghold, that sin, like it blinds you, it perverts everything. And like when you have especially sexual sin in your life, you can't see anything clearly. You can't see. You can't even see that what you're doing is wrong. You can't even feel the conviction. So thank you guys for talking about that. Oh, sure. Yeah, of course. Yeah. I think what's really important for having you guys on in our listeners, our audiences, we want to teach people how to seek Jesus, how to see the face of Jesus, how to operate in the gifts. This is a lot of different topics, but first we can start with just how to genuinely seek Jesus. Let me go. Go ahead. Oh, me? Okay. Yeah, just being aware that he's so available. He's so near. He's so present, giving him all of your time. I'll be the first to say I struggled with this for many, many years. And finally, when I got rid of all the other desires in my life and just started going after him, I didn't realize how deeply I needed him. And he was so faithful. And that's the thing about Jesus. He's so merciful. Like when you run from him and then you decide to run back, he doesn't condemn you and make you feel less than he's such a loving, kind of person. He's such a loving father, like any good parent, you know, would be if their child comes home or even if they're following him, but they go the wrong direction for a moment and then go back. He was so merciful to me through all the ups and downs. And there's so many and love so without conditions and people we love with conditions. We don't know how not to, but the Lord really loves us with an unconditional love. And so having this kind of fellowship with Jesus and for me personally knowing that when I don't spend time with him, even today, like even now, Jessica now is the worst version of herself. And I need him every day. I don't know. I can't even be a good wife, a good mom, a good leader, any of that without following Jesus. So it's just making yourself available and knowing how near he is. And I love how Michael always says he's like, you can have as much of him as you want. Like he's so available. So that's key for me. And I think intimacy, like we're married to Christ. Like so it's true, right? Oh, love. And it's not like this little relationship that has no depth. It's the deepest relationship we'll ever have in our life. So walking with him that way and just talking to him like I'm talking to you. Like I'm pretty simple. I don't complicate my walk with the Lord. I just talk to him when I have good days, bad days, when I feel weak, when I feel strong. I actually like myself. This sounds crazy, but I like myself more some time and weakness and when I feel stronger. Because I feel like I'm more dependent upon him. And that keeps me childlike and grounded. So just making him everything. He's everything in our life. Like I don't know how to do any part of my life now without Jesus being the center of it. And I hope he always stays it because I don't trust myself without it. Absolutely not. Yeah. I'd say some of the basics I think would be important maybe to mention would be prayers to be daily. The word I ask for daily bread, his presence is life. So I think probably one of the key revelations and it is a revelation from the Lord is the presence and the word of Jesus is a matter of life and death. So Jesus said in the wilderness, man does not live by bread alone. Right? But by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God. So the context there is survival or not. Right? Like you live by it or if you don't have it, you die. So this births a massive dependency. I need the Lord. And I need him every day. I would say that's like elementary thought. I need him way more often than daily. Daily isn't enough. I need him continually. And Paul describes such a standard that it invites us into a lifelong pursuit of the Lord. He says that he prays for his church always and he commands the church to pray unceasingly. So the call is actually unceasing prayer, continual prayer. And if that's the call which I believe transcends and is more pivotal than what we commit to from a mission standpoint. Right? If I can achieve continual prayer, I'm not going to have to worry about stadiums or arenas or whatever I'm called to. Or being faithful to Jesus' image. If I find the continual reception and interaction with God that is continual prayer, everything else is a byproduct. Everything else. My marriage is a byproduct. Me raising my kids is a byproduct. So you mentioned my kids earlier, right? And they are wonderful. Insanely amazing. I love hanging out with my children. And they are godly, they are on fire. They are deep in the scriptures. Benny is ministering, Theo is ministering. Sophia is starting a Bible study for her friends. She has led worship in our environment with, I don't know, 80 voices behind her. She started leading what, 12 was her first set she led? I think 12, yeah. Incredible, right? And then Theo is MD-ing. He is leading the team at times. He plays keys, he writes music, he is strong in the word. Benny is going so deep in theology and preaching. He just preached at Jesus' school. So all of that is a byproduct of the presence of God. Now two of the three receive the Lord a foot outside my prayer room. Because I would walk out and when they were little and they would say, Baba what is going on in there? Baba, so you say father in Greek. Baba what is going on there? And I said I am with the Lord. And I said we can feel that. How can we get to know the Lord? And I said well you can get to know Him right now. So I got on my knees with my boys. I am talking a foot outside my prayer room in my house. And I got to lead them to the Lord. The Lord Himself is the greatest evangelist. We are not these great evangelists. We are weak, holy spirit filled because of His grace, pieces of dust. That is what we are. And I remember when people started getting healed in our meetings her dad called me and he said, I am so proud of you. Can I give you just a little advice? I said sure. He goes you know those hands that God seems to be flowing through. I said yeah. He said those are the same hands you open a car door with. Those are the same hands you wash dishes with. They are the same hands you open a cupboard with. They are just pieces of clay that God fills. So her dad for example, Father Sam, other priests in clergy never taught us how to minister to the sick for example. But they taught us to pray. And they taught us the bullseye of it all. How to commune with the Lord. So I say when you see His presence as being a matter of bread. Not a side issue. Not a side issue. A matter of bread. If you don't eat you die. David said if you are quiet Lord, if thou be a silent unto me. He wrote in the Psalms. It's like I am living in the pit. So God's voice to David wasn't like oh cool I got a word. It was when you don't talk. I feel like I am in hell. So it must be daily. And I am a firm believer in morning prayer. I am not trying to be religious but I do want to be saintly. And the testimony of the scriptures and the testimony of the fathers of the church and the testimony of monastic orders for the last 2,000 years has been my mornings belong to God. And something I told Jessica was if God wants to tithe of our money how much more does He want to tithe of my day? And we are very busy. But if I want the Lord I can still meet Him in the morning. I can make the time. You have to make the time. God will not make the time. So this morning I didn't want to come here not full. That would be a disservice to the Lord and to you. And to the people watching. I wanted to commune with the Lord. I wanted Him to move through me. So this morning is an example like every other morning. I am up when it is dark. And I love being with Him because I found that when I give Him my mornings He takes the day. He takes the whole day. Now when I am with Him it becomes less complicated as you age. I was telling my son Benny today. He goes, Baba, you ever felt close to the Lord but far? And I go, at first I go, no. But I know what he was saying. I go, hold on. Do you mean close in the heart and far in the thoughts or far in the mind? Because the heart is married to the Lord. The Bible says He who is joined to the Lord is one spirit with the Lord. Or one with the Lord. The mind, the thoughts, the distractions, the birthplace, the origin of sin. Or inspired thought from God. There is a war over the mind. And so what I have learned is when I come into be with the Lord and I give Him my thoughts and I open the scriptures. I can open the book, I should say. But He has to open the scripture. So I simply open my Bible. Usually we'll wait on the Lord for 45 minutes to an hour just quietly. Then I open my Bible. Because you can't rush into this book. Too many people just rush. This is the heart of God in print. And this book is encrypted unless God opens it. Which makes it so holy. One of the things that makes it holy. What I mean by that is unless you know the Holy Spirit you can use this book to attack people God loves. So it called it. Saul killed Christians because he felt that the scriptures demanded it. And then he meets Jesus, the person. And he takes the same scriptures and reasons and the synagogues and proves that Jesus is the Christ. What was the hinge? What's the difference? The person of the Lord. So I wait on the Lord. And people, my students, our students, the Lord students, asked me all the time, Pastor, how do you wait? And I go, her daddy taught me this. How do you wait at the doctor? You wait. And sometimes at the doctor you go through all the magazines and then you go through everyone. What are you left to? Waiting again. And a man named Walter Butler, who's gone on to be with the Lord, a great Bible teacher once said, the most the Lord is to find fault with the Lord. So when we start going, why isn't he manifesting his presence yet? That's not the question. The question is, he's worth the wait. And so I wait, and then I open the scriptures and I say, Holy Spirit, show me Jesus in this divine garden called the Word of God. And then I start slowly reading. And typically every morning, he puts a red light on a word or a verse. And sometimes in my immaturity, I'll blow by it. And then I'll feel him go, hold on. You're moving beyond me. Think of the word forget because forgetting is a sin. Think of what the word forget actually means. Look at the word for means to go beyond. Get means reception. So when we're impatient, we rush past the cloud, past what the Lord is doing, and we forfeit our getting, we forget. Like forethought is to go beyond. So you forget the Lord oftentimes when you move beyond where he's pointing you in the scripture. And then I'll read when he'll highlight something to me in the text. It might be a word or a verse or a passage. And then once he does that, I'll pray into it. And when I pray into it, I'm praying into his heart because it's from the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks. So I can know for sure God has spoken. Therefore I can discover his heart through his words. And then I read till my heart comes alive until he shows me himself. And then I pray. And then he tells me what it's done. And I leave aware of his presence and my goal, and I haven't come close to getting this right yet. But it is my dream. And a lot would have to probably happen, which is a different story. But my dream is to walk without awareness every second of every day, hopefully more as I age and as my end comes near, I'll be more aware of him so that this world is less magnetic to me. So that way when it comes time to leave this world, my heart will have already left it. So that those weights are gone. Those weights that Paul said that so easily hold us down or so easily entangle us. And so secret prayer, births, continual prayer. That's what I would tell all of our listeners. He who dwells in the secret place shall abide. So what I'd like to just lovingly address is this teaching, especially in Gen Z or young millennials, certainly in Alpha, is that you can just walk with God at all times. Yes, but it doesn't just happen. Continual prayer is born in secret prayer. He who dwells in secret shall abide. And so this generation I want to see discover Jesus in the scriptures and learn to commune with him in prayer. And you learn as you go, all a man can do is guide you. Eventually you have to shut the door and the Holy Spirit will teach you. This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. Okay, let's chat for a minute. Guys, October 10th is World Mental Health Day. And this year we're saying thank you therapists. Behind every breakthrough is someone who showed up, asked the right question, and held space for honest change. You guys, we talk about it all the time, but finding the right therapist can be a game changer. We have witnessed this personally and with our loved ones. We believe Jesus heals mental health, but doing the work is also a sign of faith and surrender. And BetterHelp has helped over 5 million people start that journey with a license therapist and 12 plus years of experience, matching people with support that fits. A short questionnaire helps identify your needs and preferences. And if the first match isn't your fit, you can switch anytime. 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Just visit shopbeam.com slash ggb and use code GGB at checkout. That's shopbeam.com slash ggb. And don't forget to use our code GGB for your exclusive discount. Do you always sit in silence? Do you guys sit in silence in the mornings? Because you guys taught me so much about worship. And I'd like to know, in your mornings, do you worship? Do you put out ours in silence? We're both a little different. Yeah, I'll typically sit in silence and I do get distracted really easily. So I have to put my phone away. I like to, I'm not a morning person like Michael, by the way. Like I could be a night owl and I could sleep in with the best of them. But I did have to kind of train my body to wake up early because with having kids and the busyness of life, if I don't get up early, I've noticed that my time with the Lord just, I don't get the time with the Lord that I need. But yeah, always in the word, every day, you have to read your Bible. That's why I love what you girls are doing because that is the foundation of everything we are. I just, so many Christians don't read their Bible or they, we, Perry Chick, Perry Chick, what's the phrase? Perry? Cherry pick? Yeah. Perry Chick. That's what I do. I was like, man, I'm so far from the Holy. I know, I kind of, you know, whatever. But we choose, pick and choose the Scriptures we want that make us feel good, but we don't read the whole Bible, which I think is such a disservice to this generation. You need to read the entire Bible and ask the Holy Spirit to help you understand the Bible. He will do it every time. So always in the word of God, I, towards the end of my prayer time, I'll put on worship music because I love to worship and I'll sing just to Jesus, talk to him, just fellowship with him. And I love corporate gathering, but there's something so holy about intimate private time with Jesus. That's really the foundation of your walk with him. And you do need to gather corporately. I believe in that. But if you only gather corporately and never have time alone with him, I always say it's like a marriage. If Michael and I only hang out with our kids and our staff and our family and our church people, the people that come to our church, I should say, like that's no intimate relationship. That's very surfaced. We're going to need to have actually time together to actually continue to keep that love alive in our hearts. Well, it's no different with our walk with Jesus. You have to have your own time with him. That's really what fills you. That's what sustains you. That's what actually gives you authority to be used by him. And if you follow God for the stuff, I give you serve him just so you can be effective for him. That's not your relationship because we all know it feels like when you have a relationship and it's just for what can you do for me, you feel used. So our walk with God is no different. You have to actually be with him just for him. And you get him. There's nothing better. Is that all Dean Becker message the other night? Yeah. Oh, that was so good. Yeah. But yeah, we have worship on a lot, but we have our own time with the Lord. And then we pray with our kids. We pray together as husband and wife, but we're all we're always with the Lord alone. And we taught our kids go in the room, open the Bible, talk to the Lord in your room and private. Because if not, it's just you'll get too distracted. Yeah, I'm a little different. We're different people in different seasons in our spiritual life. Right. So when I when I was seeking the Lord, I'm telling Benny this today because he was asking the same types of questions. And it's a great question. Are you like, because the Lord Jeremiah says that he is the Lord who hides himself and he's not from us, but for us. Right. So the Lord loves to be sought. Just like any of us do. And you see this on the road to Emmaus, the Lord says, I'm going on. And his reasoning in the text is so funny. Luke writes because it was dark. It's like the Lord's not scared of the dark, you know, like big deal, you know what I mean? It's like, what was he doing? Why was he saying I will go on? And the Bible says that the disciples constrained him and he stayed. All they said is no, no, no, you can't leave. You have to eat with us. He goes, okay. He did it walking on water. Remember? Yeah. He's walking on water. He was going to walk. Perfect. I know. He's going to walk by him. He is. It's so precious. Yeah. He's going to walk by him on the boat and they go, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, what are you doing? He because he's on a mission. And then that's the other side of them is we're like, loves to be wanted to. He loves to be loved. He wants to be wanted. He seeks to be sought. And so we say, oh, I sought the Lord. You sought the Lord because he sought you first. He said, the Son of man has come to seek and save the lost. Revelation three, he's the one knocking on the door. And the Shulamite says that the beloved is outside whose hands are dripping with a myrrh. And the scripture says that his locks are wet with the dew of night in the song of Solomon. In other words, the picture, the mystical picture, and that's not a curse word. That's a very ancient Christian word. It just means to experience God. That mystical picture is the savior outside the door of our heart waiting long enough until his hair is wet. If you've ever been in the Middle East or the Mediterranean, it's kind of like the Marine Lair in Newport or something. It comes in. It's not raining, but it's it's damp out. Yeah. There's a mist. That's the picture. And so this is there's a side of the Lord that wants to be wanted. You see it throughout the Old Testament scriptures of Genesis through Malachi is not God hates everyone. It is a God calling his unfaithful bride back to him over and over again. So that being said, what Benny and I were talking about today on the way here was like, he's like, what about like, what about this and this in prayer? Like, do I listen to worship? There was a time I did and that may come again. Right now, God is teaching me a few things in prayer in a in a new way, the power of the scriptures as I pray them and teaching me to wait in deep silence, like a deep quiet. And I tell our students, people often relinquish and forsake worship because they want to listen to music. Wow. Wow. And now coming from a pastor who has the joy of serving a house like Jesus and that God is blessed with an incredible worship community. That's very special. I'm the first one to say I love to sing. I love our musicians. I love what they do. It's a huge part of who we are. God likes music. Psalm 45 strings make his heart glad. I don't know why, but they do. And so in certain moments, I'll call our strings players up if I really am feeling led in a certain direction, right? But, but there is a place in communion with God where somebody else's music isn't going to take you. And there's a sound to the silence of the heart. So right now I don't, Ari, I don't. Now, before I'm, if I'm like getting ready, if I'm on my way to service, there are a few people that I'll listen to worship wise, but it's, it's a small list. I listen to Miss Coolman a lot before certain meetings because it's, it's my DNA. It wakes something up. I'll listen to a lot of older, more ancient stuff. But for the most part in the mornings, the Lord is teaching me how powerful Psalm 4610 is. Be still and know that I'm the Lord. And that's been for like three years now. I think what the Lord does is, at least for me, he's done this. I think I speak for Jess as well. It's throughout different seasons of life. The Lord teaches you to discover his presence in another biblical way. It's not unbiblical, but it's like, Hey, for those four months, I was touching something when I prayed in the spirit. For those three months, I was touching something waiting in silence. For, for, for those five months, this song really moved me. Maybe this song did. Like last night, I felt the Lord quicken me. Like I was laying down in bed. I thought the night was over. And I felt the Lord go just very gently. I'd like time with you. I was tired. I'm very tired. You know, I was like, Oh, okay. So I went and I read like two Psalms. It lasted an hour because a well opened like in my heart. So the point is the Holy Spirit leads us and disciples us and teaches us how to drink from his well and where they're located. And we see that through the journey of Israel. He takes them through different locations. Each location means something. We see that in the ancient church where there's singing, right? That's the Eucharist, obviously the body and blood of Jesus, the scriptures, right prayer, corporate worship, corporate prayer, waiting in silence. These are always two in kind of a Lord. And the only way to know what to do when is some, some of these Holy practices are very clearly taught in scripture, but they don't necessarily, the Lord doesn't necessarily tell you what to do in what order. Some things he does like Thanksgiving should precede praise. Praise should lead me into worship. Worship should lead me into a manifestation of his presence. And when his presence manifests, I should do nothing. That is a biblical pattern, right? But how to do that, when to do that, what to say, what not to say is completely dependent on a relationship with the Holy Spirit. Wow. This, I live and I die by the secret place. It's the most important thing I've discovered. I feel like in the last year that if I come on every Friday and girls gone Bible and tell them the exact same thing every Friday for the rest of my life, that's okay. I actually don't need to come up with anything new. Read the Bible, elevate the word above everything else in your life and spend time with Jesus that costs you something. That's that like actually is almost painful to spend that time because you're so pulled to starting your day and talking to people and going to work and being like, no, that is the time when you should be sitting and sitting in silence like you guys are saying. And I've also experienced, so I've discovered that it's about finding what he wants and what he likes. And it's all about like instead of coming to the secret place wanting something, having the perspective that like I actually am going to offer him something. It's not just about receiving. It's about me giving him. And it just, then I'm not like dying for his presence because I'm aware that I've entered into his meeting. Like he's already called me there. I'm not waiting for him to come because he's already there inviting me. And so can you take us into what you just said about the Thanksgiving to praise to worship to presence because I think that's a really important thing. Yeah. I mean, the scripture says we enter his gates with Thanksgiving, his courts with praise. My heart is never to be critical, but I do travel the world and I've had the joy of ministering in places I dreamt of. And I'm not sure we're even getting past the gate. I don't know. I don't mean, I can't say that like in a uniform broad stroke because there are many beautiful things the Lord's doing. But I'm not even sure we're getting to the gate in many cases like because to get to the gate of the Tabernacle that the psalmist would have been referring to. You actually had to get out of your tent and you had to do it when God said do it. So you worshiped the Lord where he said to be worshiped. You worshiped the Lord when he said he wanted to be worshiped and you had to leave your comfort zone. And then you had to have something legitimate to thank him for beyond your bank account, which should be part of it. You should say, Lord, thank you for providing. But how about his blood? How about the cross? How about the blessedness of his spirit? I mean, you know, when we talk about him, you feel him here. That's how wonderful he is. We start talking about him and he falls like a beautiful loving shepherd that he is. How about thanking him for making our bodies temples of the Holy Spirit? I mean, that is, you could preach on that for the rest of your life that God has taken this body that I used to glorify the devil. He's taken this body that I used to make much of Michael, which is the most satanic thing you can do. We think the most satanic thing you can do is run around with a pentagram on your chest. And that's a bad idea, by the way. But the devil is very, very okay with Henry Joyce's when we're just all about us. That's like the most demonic thing you can do. The doctrine of man is the doctrine of the devil. So here, Jessica, myself, all of us prior to Jesus, we're not just committing sin, but like the children of Israel, when they were enslaved in Egypt, there's a powerful passage prior to Moses's deliverance when he delivers them. It says that Pharaoh demanded that they build him cities. And that's what we do for the devil when we're in sin. Our bodies build him strongholds. And the scripture says that, for example, with children, it's better to have a millstone tied around your neck than to offend one of these little ones. A millstone is the size of a washing machine. They would tie it to somebody's neck, throw them overboard, it would snap their neck, take them down to the bottom, couldn't move their body, and they'd slowly drawn out. Jesus said, it's better to have that happen to you than to offend one little child. This is what sin does. It builds cities for Pharaoh, the devil. Then the Lord Jesus comes and reveals himself to us in his mercy. The power of the cross is revealed to us, his shed blood. Not only does he forgive our sin, not only does he say we're not guilty, but then proclaims us as being righteous. Not only does he, you probably heard me preach this, he doesn't change our lives, he replaces them. He gives us his life for my horrific life. And then takes this body that was once a tool for the devil and makes it a temple. And the one who fills it is the uncreated God, the Lord and the giver of life. The creed says of the Holy Spirit, and we believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord and the giver of life. So the same spirit, think of this, hopefully, hopefully the Lord is anointing us right now so that each word will land. The same spirit that raised Jesus from the dead. That's amazing. No one laid hands on Jesus. Nobody went to the tomb and held a prayer meeting. Nobody threw a prayer cloth on him. Nobody put the prophet's body on him. The Holy Spirit, that same wonderful Lord and giver of life, who created the heavens and the earth? Who knows the amount of grains of sand and the entire earth and has weighed them? The spirit of the Lord, who cannot be counseled. In other words, you can't instruct him, the scripture says. The same Lord of Genesis chapter one, who took an earth and a cosmos that was formless, void and chaotic and dark. And then he moved and God spoke when he moved. And light came, which speaks of the Messiah. That's still how the Lord reveals the light of the world to us. That amazing Holy Spirit lives in you and I. That should make you thankful. But if you fly over these truths, oh, thank you for Jesus. It's like, hold on. You mean thank you for the uncreated God who came from the bosom of the Father? So Thanksgiving erupts in a people where Jesus is seen. And then the only response is praise. So I praise him because of his mighty works and because of his greatness. Great is the Lord and greatly to be praised. You were there Sunday night. Waves of praise at the building, right? During offerings. During offering. During a video play. They weren't even actively playing. That happens a lot. That one was really special. But before that, remember I tried to close and waves of praise hit and they wouldn't let me leave. We praise him because of his greatness. And his greatness is made real to us when we thank him. When we praise, he inhabits it. He starts to live in there. He praises like a cinder block if it's proper. You don't get to choose it. It has to be according to the scriptures. And when you do it rightly, he goes, I'll take that little building block and I'll make it a house. And if you have 10 people doing it and then 15 and 20 and two or 3000 and they start praising the Lord. Now you've got this house that he trusts and he lives in. My only response when he starts to live there is to then worship because he becomes real to me. And when I worship him, which is a low place and worship as Dean Becker said, isn't relegated to a song. It's the giving away of life. Genesis 22, Abraham, give me Isaac. Give me the most precious thing to you. That's worship. And when I begin to worship, God takes over. When God takes over, he benches us. And when God benches us, he does everything beautifully. And this is where beauty is revealed. Like I always wanted people to be healed in a holy way. I didn't want to make entertainment of it. I didn't want to make much of me. I didn't want the pomp and circumstance. I would, Jesse will tell you, I said, Lord, you do it. You do it. Confound the wise. Turn people away from me. Do it beautifully. I told Heidi Baker that when it first started happening. He said, Heidi, Heidi, before I used to lay hands on people. And that is beautiful. Don't get me wrong. It's in the scriptures. Lay hands on the sick and they recover. But I dreamt of a day where in this beautiful elegance of worship, the Lord would come and do it. And I could watch him do it. And the first time it happened, I was sitting with Heidi and I said, Heidi, he did it. And she says, isn't it so much better? And it's not just about healing. But when, when the Lord is worshiped, which is death, we die. You die to the clock, especially out in LA where you all are. There needs to be like a massive movement to die to the clock. I passed her there for years. I know it well. But that's everywhere. I'm not saying you have to go 12 hours. Like if you're going to have an anointed meeting, make it short because longer ones are just not fun. But you have to die to everything. Your preference, the preference of the people in worship, and he comes. And that's the best I can explain. And I'm sure there are much better ways. That was a great way to explain it. Thank you so much. Are you? No. Unbelievable. I'm just completely in golf. This is such a gift for us specifically. I, the presence of God. Is it a feeling? Is it? Can it be measured? Is it always an encounter that is life? What is truly the presence of God? It's him. He's his presence. It's Jesus. And I think oftentimes we look for a feeling. We do this a lot with the Holy Spirit. We just think it's a feeling. But no, the Holy Spirit is actually a person with feelings, with a personality. And yeah, the presence of Jesus is him. So instead of going after the presence, go after Jesus. And when you go after the Lord, you get his presence. And sometimes it is super tangible. But again, it's him. It's going after him in an intimate, deep relationship. Right. The text you forgot to answer and what's for dinner. Yeah, same. And that's why we love the Glorify app. It'll help you pause, breathe and actually focus on God. It'll become part of your everyday rhythm. Five minutes in the morning, a quick devotional, and that verse of the day to set your heart right before the chaos starts. Glorify helps you spend time with God in a way that feels easy and meaningful. You can read or listen to daily devotionals, tune into guided meditations and worship playlists during the day, and even unwind with sleep meditations at night. Whether you've walked with Jesus for years or you're just exploring faith, glorify makes it simple to draw closer to God, anytime, anywhere. Over 20 million people already use it and it's easy to see why. Visit glorify-app.com slash ggb right now to download the Glorify app for free. That's glorify-app.com slash ggb to download the Glorify app for free. Glorify-app.com slash ggb. 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Let's get you started with 20% off your first order. Visit tonetoday.com and use our code GGB for your discount. Again, use our code GGB to save 20% off at tonetoday.com. That's T-O-N-E today.com. Yeah, the presence of the Lord is the Lord. Yeah. So we asked you guys to come here, right? Thank you for coming by the way. Thank you so much. We requested your presence. Yeah. We didn't ask for you to send your bio or for you to send us a feeling of you. Now you can feel the Lord. It depends on how you define that. The Lord is known, which includes feelings, but it's deeper, more broad than feelings. But I can't feel him. Feel him now. Yeah. And when he really graces us with his presence, you become more aware of him than people. And that's how you bless people the most. I always tell our church, I'll love you best when I love Jesus the most. So we requested your presence. You came. When we request the Lord's presence, we're requesting him. And his presence is his glory, right? So Exodus 33, we see Moses crying out to the Lord for something that is so precious. It's one of my favorite passages in the scripture. But for the sake of time in verse 17 of Exodus 33, he says, So the Lord said to Moses, I will do this thing that you have spoken. And what had he asked for? He had asked for the Lord. He said, don't send us to Canaan without you. I'm happy to be on this land. It's a miracle. This house came with the land. That's a miracle. But I don't want to be here without him. I don't want to be in heaven without him. Yeah. It wouldn't be heaven. So what Moses had actually requested was it was incredibly wise. Like, only the Holy Spirit could have led him. He said, in Exodus 33, you say, I found grace in your sight. So he's talking to the Lord like most people cannot and aren't allowed. But because there's been this equity, he goes, Lord, you say that I found grace in your sight. You said that, Lord. Then he goes, if I found grace in your sight, show me your glory. And he's going, what is grace? The supernatural presence of the Holy Spirit. You're saying I found the presence of the spirit in your sight. And since I have, I'm going to ask for more. He didn't say, since I found grace, give me a bigger tent in Canaan. I need six more camels. He took what he had in God and used it to get more from God of himself. So then the Lord says, okay, that's what I just read to you. I will also do this thing that you've spoken. The Lord said, I'll give myself away to you. For you have found grace in my sight. And I know you by name. Now the Lord speaks to the relationship. He's saying you and I have something that's different than the rest of the camp of three million. See, we say God has no favorites. That's not true because if you can't have favor and not have a favorite. Being a respecter of persons is different. When we talk about favorites or favor, we're talking about this person can be closer to God than the next person. That's just the Bible. God has really close friends and people who've chosen to not draw near. I think it's a mistake. Moses and Elijah showed up on the Mount Transfiguration. Why not some no name? Because they'd always been friends of God. It's the same God. So here he says, I know you by name. And then you hear Moses. Oh man, this is awesome. He says, show me your glory. Okay, what is the glory? Which is really what you're asking. Yeah. Verse 19, I will make all my goodness pass before you. I will make all my goodness pass before you. I will make all my goodness pass before you. I, in other words, he said, I'm coming your way now. That's the presence of God. That's the glory. And I will proclaim the name of the Lord before you. I will be gracious to whom I will be gracious. I'll have compassion on whom I have compassion. But he said, you cannot see my face for no man shall see me and live. And the Lord said, here is a place by me and you shall stand on the rock. Speaking of Christ Jesus. So it shall be while my glory passes that I will put you in the cross. So it shall be while my glory passes that I will put you in the cleft of the rock. I will cover you with my hand while I pass by. So the presence of Lord is the Lord. Then I will take away my hand and you shall see my back. But my face shall not be seen. And then in verse chapter 34, the Lord introduces himself. The Lord, the Lord God, merciful, gracious, long suffering, abounding in goodness and truth, keeping mercy for thousands, forgiving iniquity and transgressions and sin, by no means clearing the guilty, visiting the iniquity of the fathers, upon the children and the children to the third and fourth generation. Then Moses made haste, bowed his head towards the earth and worshiped. So the presence of the Lord is the Lord. So when we say, unfortunately in revival culture, we started saying, I feel the presence. I understand. I'm not critical, but please be more clear. Who's? Who's? We're talking about Jesus here. Not some ethereal jitter. When I say I feel the presence of Lord, I'm saying, I feel the God of the ages coming close and revealing himself to me. That's a totally different thought process. So, yeah. Wow. Could we talk about one of the biggest things that people struggle with in Girls Gone Bible is condemning thoughts. We're noticing at our shows, we say, how many people feel like God is mad at you? Most of the room raised their hand. Wow. Could you speak on? I've heard many people say I'm in my word, but I just keep hearing those condemning thoughts. They're torturing me. Yeah. I used to really deal with that a lot. And I honestly think I got free from that. It's not been a long time, maybe five plus years. And every now and then I'll catch myself saying things like, I just don't want God to be mad at me. And... Can you tell them what I remember when I've been writing? Well, that's what I was thinking about. Like when we were talking... When they asked you those questions. Yeah, if you want me to go there. Well, I mean, I know, like when they said, remember they'd give you like a one word question and you'd give... Yeah, that might help some people. So without going too deep in my stories, and I wouldn't have time for that, but like so I just grew up with major issues, rejection, fear, severe fear, like since I was a child. And all kinds of pain, trauma, you name it. And so when we went to Redding, California for a season of our life, just to get inner healing for me, really, he was doing good, but I was pretty... Not really. I mean, we were both... Our marriage wasn't what it should be like. We were just struggling, but it's because I internally was struggling. And I had just had my third child, and I just think I just... I didn't do a good job of asking for help. I was trying to like just have it all figured out. So I was sitting with someone that was walking us through just some things, and they said, close your eyes and just say the first thing that comes to mind as soon as I say the word. I was like, okay, and I never done anything like that before. And they said, ministry. And I said, pain. And that freaked me out. Yeah, like... Whoa, because we'd been in ministry. I mean, I've been in my whole life. And so like born and raised, and now he's in full-time ministry. And then they said, if people knew the real you, what would they say? They'd be disappointed. And he goes, and how do you see yourself? And I said, worthless. And like, so we both started crying. And I started crying because I didn't realize I really thought that of myself. It still makes me a little emotional because it just like, it takes you back. And I always, I think maybe people grow up in church, people that never grew up in church. There's this thing of like performance that you feel like you have to look a certain way. You have to stand a certain way when you worship. You have to look the part. You have to have everything together. You have to just be picture perfect. And that's got to die because the Lord is really looking for vulnerability and people that are authentically themselves. And like I said earlier, he loves us unconditionally. So he's not going to throw you out with your imperfections. Like in your weakness, that's when you're really strong because that's when you're clinging to the cross daily. And so I would always struggle with the Lord's matinee or I would, you know, I'm very human. Like you were laughing earlier. Like sometimes when I drive and someone cuts me off. I don't like it. So you know I'm spicy still. public public public public public public public public public public public public public public public public public public public public public public public public public public public public public public public public I'm just more sanctified spice now, but I'm still myself. And I'm like, why are you laughing? Sanctified yelling at people? Well, you know, like I'm not cursing at them anymore, but I still sometimes will catch myself and I'm like, oh, you know, and I'll have a thought or just whatever. I'm still flawed. Like we all are still flawed beings. And I still need Jesus every single day. But like now I'm like, okay, I'm flawed, but I'm bringing it to the Lord. I'm giving him my issues. I'm repenting of my sin. I believe repentance needs to come back to the body of Christ. And I repent all the time. I repent almost daily. And then I give it to the Lord and then I like, just kind of the Bible says, he drives our sins as far as the east to the west. It's under the blood. So I've really had to learn to believe that. Like either I believe what the Bible teaches or I don't. So this whole thought process that a lot of Christians deal and I will say, I think girls deal with it a lot. What specifically? Like this thing, this thought process of God is always angry at us or we can't please the Lord or we can't, am I answering that correctly? Like there's just this condemnation. It's like we always feel condemned. You have to really find, I know it sounds so cliche, but have a deep walking relationship with Jesus and actually believe what he says about you and not what people say about you. I think we have a deep fear of man issue in our generation where we really care. I don't think social media has helped that, by the way. I think it's only made it worse where we really care what everybody thinks of us. Like if we don't get enough likes on an Instagram post, we measure our value in that alone. And so dying to that, truly dying to self, only worrying about what the Lord says about you. And actually, this sounds so silly, but speaking words of affirmation, that has helped me so much because I'm like a very tough critic on myself and I've tried to get better with that but I still find myself doing it. It's just kind of been something, it's been my nature for so long that I have to sometimes like tell myself, stop it Jess, like shut up, like just stop saying this about yourself, know who you are in the Lord. And then when I read the Bible, of course we read it every day, but I speak it out loud a lot. Because I know that that has helped me personally renew my mindset, like saying out loud who the Lord sees of me in like a quick story that might help a lot of your listeners. When I went through a really rough season, when I went to Red in California, that God brought me out of and I had a lot of issues in my life. And I remember when I started to minister and be used by the Lord a little bit more and all these things, a lot of people from my past would throw all my weaknesses in my face and be like, you know, we know the real you, you shouldn't be doing that. And it's true, the real me was really messed up. And I remember actually going once to Bill Johnson about that, because he walked us through such a dark season, my dark season. And he said, you fought hard to get free. I watched you. I was with you. You fought hard to get free from fear and rejection and shame and all these things. He's like, the Lord does not see you that way. People will see you this way, Jessica. He goes, but the Lord sees you as who you are in him. And he started to speak life over me. So I think you need to say it out loud, walk with Jesus closely, believe what he said about you. He loves you with an everlasting love. He loves you so much, he knows the hairs on your head. This is like, this is, oh my gosh, the most beautiful love you could ever imagine is the way Jesus loves you. And then I just remembered who the sun sets, free is free indeed. There is no, I cannot be bound when I walk with Jesus. And simple things like that just set me free. And then if I still struggle, I'll find people. And sometimes you have to be really selective with those people. Sometimes even the people that you want to be for you, they love you broken, but you free sometimes is hard. And unfortunately that's the case sometimes. And I found people that really saw me rightly. And sometimes when I was feeling even weaker, I'd go, okay, I need you to tell me how you see me. And they would speak life over me. And we would partner with heaven. And that helps set me free from living in condemnation and shame. I think people knowing you and speaking to you, loving you and you giving them permission, even if they get it wrong occasionally to speak really directly to you. I had that in my life. I still do. I had it with Joy Dawson. Certainly my mom is that. For all of us. Her dad is that and other leaders in the body, but I had in joy a laser like encourager and corrector. But you know, I just was talking Proverbs 16, 24 regarding words that are spoken to you. Pleasant words are like a honeycomb, sweetness to the soul and health to the bones. So I don't think we realized the power of conversation, the power of what's spoken. It, yes, certainly a sweetness to the soul, which is mind, will, emotions, but there's a physical component to negative talk as well. Or the opposite, right? Pleasant words, the word of God has an effect on the entirety of our being. And so just what she used to have a saying, it was always, God's mad at me. And like, I remember our friends were like, chill out. But she grew up with a very, I think self-measuring reality. And she does read her Bible out loud because I used to have to run. I couldn't, I'd be like one room over. Like, why do you read out loud? Like, are we in, is this story time? It's a hard time retaining information too. Yeah, I'm actually dyslexic. You saw it earlier when I put the two words, I messed them up. Like, so I can't retain it if I don't read it out loud. I love to tell you listeners too, God can use anybody. You don't have to be book smart or say everything right all the time. Schools always was so hard for me. Now we're getting our masters in theology. Let's go, Jack. So, you know, it takes me a little longer to get things in him. But then he, like it takes me a little longer. Like I have to like read the same thing maybe four times for me to like understand what I'm even reading. But the Lord is so beautiful. And like with the Holy Spirit, he makes Jesus so real. So there's like, you understand things in a deeper way. But if I could read the Bible and love Jesus, anybody can, I promise. Another thing the listeners could do is write out chapters. Maybe start with verses. Yeah, you do that a lot. So I do that every day. I write out, you know, you could start with Psalm 23, Psalm 91, John 1, Matthew 5, the Beatitudes. And just, that's how I've memorized scripture, and I write, and it's very, it's a very spiritual experience. Today I was writing John 1, and slowly, and methodically praying it. So I think that's a real simple tool for people to do. Wow, that is so good. Well guys, if it was up to us, we'd keep you here all day. And we want to talk with you guys all day. But do you mind just quickly before we go, would you just lead people, one of you, to the Lord, into one of the cameras? And this is how we always end. Well, I was gonna say you start. Okay. You're gonna be our audience. You know, before you were ever born, the Lord knew that you would be watching this right now. He knew you'd be listening. There is nobody like Jesus. He knew you'd be facing exactly what you're facing right now. Even though he doesn't want you in the pit that you're in, he knew you'd be in it. And he's not panicking, but he is reaching out to you. Jesus shed his blood for you. This is the way he says, I love you. Perhaps you've doubted whether or not God actually loves you. Listen to what the scripture says. For God so loved, or in this way, God loved the world, that's everyone that he gave or offered as a sacrifice, his one and only begotten Son, that whosoever, and that includes you. Whosoever means whosoever would believe in him, will not die. That word belief means to trust in, to cast your life upon him. You say, what is death? Death is separation from God. The scripture says anyone who believes in Jesus would not die, but have eternal life. Jesus also said, if we came unto him, that we would lose our weariness basically. He said, come unto me, all you who are weary, are you tired today? He said, if you're heavy laden, are you carrying the weight of the world? He said, I'll give you rest for your souls. You know, that's something a vacation can't do, it's something riches can't provide. I've often thought I've been to some of the most beautiful places in the world, and I've told the Lord, Lord, this is beautiful, but nothing touches my heart like you do. He said, you would find rest for your soul if you came to Jesus, the person. The scripture says that if we came unto him, or believe in him, or receive him, we would be called children of God. This Jesus shed his blood, he was nailed to a cross, he was stripped naked, he was beaten, he was whipped until his bones were exposed. He outstretched his arms in mercy, and on that cross he said this, father, forgive them. What a heart, who says something like that? Who's being unjustly killed? He still says, father, forgive them. And maybe as you're listening or watching, you're saying, I've done too much, you don't know me. I want you to hear the words of the Lord. Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do. And this same Jesus breathed his last, and he was buried so that you would not have to stay on the ground or fear the grave. And he came out of the grave three days later, so that one day you would come out too, that your body would find a brand new body, a glorified body in him, and you would live with Jesus forever. The grave is not our home. To the Christians, to the saints, we don't really die, we sleep, and so we can face anything, even death with a smile on our face, knowing that Jesus has overcome. You say, Michael, Angela, Ari, Jess, this is what I want. I want to know him. Well, I wanna pray with you, but I don't want you to just repeat a dead prayer. I want us together to talk to the Lord, and the scripture says of the Lord, listen to these words, has he who formed the eye, will he not see you, or does he not see you? Has he who planted the ear, can he not hear you? Jesus is right there with you right now, listening, watching, ready to forgive you, to fill you, and make you his own. Let's pray, heavenly Father, repeat this after me, heavenly Father, forgive my sin, wash me in the precious blood of Jesus, cleanse my soul. I'm sorry for grieving you, and I'm sorry for breaking your law. I come to you today, and I repent, and I turn from this world, I turn from my sin, I renounce it, and I renounce the devil, and I put all my faith, all my hope, all my trust in Jesus Christ, the Son of the living God. And I believe, and I declare, that Jesus Christ is born of the Virgin, lived a perfect and holy life, a sinless life, revealed the word and will of the Father in perfection, suffered, shed his blood, died, was buried, raised on the third day, has ascended to the right hand of the Father, and will return again to judge the living and the dead. Precious Jesus, receive my life in Jesus' holy and wonderful name, as I receive you. Amen. Amen. Amen. Amen. Thank you, Jesus. Pastor Michael Pastor, Jessica, thank you, thank you. Love you guys. Thank you. We love you so much. Thank you so much. We love getting to know you girls. You're amazing. Yeah, may the Lord give you a hunger for His word, may you both live holy lives, and may you find at the end of your life that you're more in love with Him than you are now, and may He keep you healthy and give you wonderful families, and children that serve the Lord, and grandchildren that serve the Lord, and may you both hear well done, good and faithful servant, and may you preach His word to this generation in clarity and love and in boldness. That's our prayer for you. Thank you, Jesus. Thank you for all you're doing, your blessing. Thank you so much. Thank you for the honor. I know you guys have a lot going on. Do you want to be our new co-host? Yeah. Do you have time? I just want to weep. Just yeah, it'd be perfect. All right, guys, we love you so much. Thank you for being here. May the Lord bless you and keep you. May He make His face shine upon you and be gracious to you. May He turn His face towards you and give you peace. Shalom, shalom. We love you.