Episode 360: Heal Your Hurting Mind (feat. Craig Groeschel)

thanks for tuning in to becoming something where we promise to keep the conversation honest and real for young adults in their 20s and 30s every moment we live is training for a future moment and that's why we do this podcast because we want you to be prepared for everything that life is going to throw at you. Our hope with this podcast is that it would help you become all that God desires you to be. So with that in mind, let's jump right in to this week's episode of Becoming Something. What's up podcast world? It's your boy JP in the podcast studio with Kathy. Hi, How you doing? And Nate So are we going to address what I think What's it? Preachers and sneakers? Preachers and boots? Man Oh my gosh You too What were you thinking? You know it's not fixable If you don't come to Becoming Something Live We'll just be deeply hurt We're looking over the cost Of Be So Live yesterday I can defend this decision until I'm blue in the face. Bring it. Kathy wants young adults to have an amazing time, which I love. I want them to have an incredible experience. You're paying for this event. There was a cost of what I thought was a bounce house. Okay. Like a gold-plated bounce house. Like a bounce house. Your option was trash. I Googled it. It's so bad. It's a Christmas decoration, brother. It was $100. A Christmas decoration. I am trying to give a... Whoa. Kathy wants to spend $7,000 on a boot. Kathy, right now, on the air. On the air. I will promise my life. Hey, Pastor's here. Pastor's here. We can't do this. Let's go. How much are you going to resell that for? At least $5,000. You cry here first. We're getting our money out. You don't. Okay, so let me just catch them up. Let me catch them up. Maybe Life Church needs something. Let me catch them up. Hold on. Let me catch them up. Cedero's going to buy it. Let me catch them up. I've already talked. So I look over the expenses of the church, right? So anything over $500 shows up on the desk. I thought I was getting called into the principal's office. And I find out she wants to spend $7,000. I did spend it. It's not refundable. $7,000 on a boot, on an inflatable boot. A massive, picture this, 15 feet high, massive boot. For Be So Live. Can you wear it? Listen, we're under budget. People are paying for this event. We're well within the budget. We've gotten entertainment taken care of. We're not paying for it. Now they're all upset. They're like, why don't you just charge us less? Well, we should. Okay. That's another conversation that I didn't get to speak into. But if they have paid for the money, I'm giving you an incredible event. So she's saying, hey, I'm just, I'm just, I was like, are we renting? She's like, no, it's custom made. Custom made. And she wants to resell it. We get to make it however we wanted to look. Yeah. So before we're in the news, just know we're pulling that out of Kathy's salary. So it's going to be fine. out of her paycheck. No, but this year 2026 will be a wash. But the good news is you will have a giant boot. I can't wait for April 24th and you guys will be like, that was really cool. Way to go, Kathy. We need some wisdom. Yes, we do. I was in a conversation this past weekend. Literally this past weekend. With my friend Pastor down the road in Colleen Jonathan Fletcher came up to Waco and we were talking, he's just a brilliant mind. And he was just like, who is impressive to you? And I was just like, immediately, that's so easy. There's a number one spot on the impressive list, and that goes to Pastor Craig Groeschel, who's on the podcast with us today. Pastor Craig, welcome to Becoming Something. Hey, it's a big compliment. I just need to promise that you give me a follow-up episode of The Boot. No. No, no. I'll send you a picture. It's going to be worth it. I almost called you, honestly. I'm like, hey, what do I do? Like, is this, you know, what does this call for? How do I shepherd this moment right here? Thank you for shepherding it publicly on the podcast. Nothing on this one. This is, Kathy's got a vision. Yes, thank you. Where there is no vision, the people go boot. That's right. The picture. Oh, my goodness. I think when people buy boots, they get the boot. That's the proverb I read. Like, what in the world? You can lead the women's ministry. Okay, we're on with New York Times bestselling author Craig Groeschel. I got the book right here. It's Heal Your Hurting Mind. It is available now everywhere books are sold. And so tell us who is Dr. Wayne Chappelle, first of all. Well, Dr. Wayne Chappelle is, I call him a freak of nature. This guy, I met him through the Oklahoma City Thunder. He's one of the contracted team members that helps select the team for the last year's national champions or, I guess, world champions, even though it's only in our nation, but it's still world champions, even though it's in the United States. Right. And so Dr. Chappelle started out working in in the military, kind of with top government officials. Oddly enough, he helped select the team for Air Force One under two different presidents. He works with Olympic athletes. Now he actually works with a lot of pastors, and I was his first one. So I tell him I was his experimental pastor where he had all of his learnings. But he is a world-class psychologist that I actually asked to help me maybe eight years ago or so. We started working together, and then after some work together, we ended up co-authoring this book. Wow. I think it's really encouraging to me the way that you talk about this, because I think there's probably a mass assumption in the evangelical world or the church world or I'll say the Christianity in our country that you don't struggle. I mean, it's like you're, you know, God has anointed you to lead the largest church in the world. And if it's not, if somebody's going to correct me on that and say, oh, this way, I mean, it's for sure very high on the list. And I think there's probably an assumption there that's like, wait, how would you be able to talk about this? So what inspired you to write this book? Well, years ago, I kind of, the accumulation of the work caught up to me. And so for years and years and years, I was thankfully healthy. I've always been blessed with a good marriage to Amy. I work hard to eat right, take care of my body. And the church had mostly seasons of being blessed. And so I literally thought this was something I could do and sustain for decades and did for a couple of decades. But eventually, JP, just the grind of adding a little bit more, a little bit more, a little bit more, a little bit more, a little bit more, a little bit more caught up to me. And even though I was taking care of my body, even though spiritually I was good, I kind of neglected my mind. And I just took on too much and started becoming foggy and then dealing with some anxiety. And recognized if I kept up at this pace without changing something, the trajectory was not looking good. And so I kind of went on a journey of trying to really open up. I had to learn, honestly, how to ask for help and then how to receive help because that wasn't language that I had acquired. It sounds crazy, but I was maybe embarrassed to ask for help, didn't really know how to. And even my attempts were pretty pathetic. And so I learned that some of the strengths that I have can also be weaknesses, just kind of like you. I watch you sometimes. I go, man, your schedule's a lot. so I found myself where I didn't want to be and decided to get real help to um to change and then my you know how it is when you go through something like your health issue that you've walked through gives you just extraordinary empathy and sympathy for other people who go through things that you maybe didn't have before and so when I went through this all of a sudden everything I'd heard people say for years about their their struggles became more intimate to me more real and sitting by Dr. Chappelle, who's so brilliant. I thought, hey, maybe together we can do something. I can write more from the spiritual standpoint. You can write more from the clinical, professional standpoint, even though he is a strong Christian. And together, hopefully we could create something that would help a lot of people. Yeah. And I think, let me just say this, because in diving in, just having the honor of getting a copy early, and I can tell that you tripped over something that was helpful to you and you just wanted to make it available to the masses and um man so if you guys don't know and you know if you're a new listener to becoming something so i was in the hospital i woke up a couple months ago and couldn't walk one leg wasn't working and it just was like boom and i i think a lot of times we think we're built different you know you can that's kind of that term oh he's just built different she's just built different like we talk about a lot about capacity different people have different capacities and and i mean when you wake up and you can't walk and you're just like i don't even know like what i mean i wasn't injured i didn't run the day before or play basketball i just woke up and couldn't couldn't walk to the to the bathroom to brush my teeth like man what in the world and then i'm in the hospital i go well i go to the er and that turns to to being in the hospital for for 16 days So I'm in the hospital at UT Southwestern in Dallas, which is the place to be evidently for this condition that I have, which is now we know is some sort of transverse myelitis, was an infection in my spine that messed up my nerves. And Pastor Craig Groeschel shows up. He's just like, I mean, he just comes up, I like what are you here for He like I here to see you And you know that i would just want to say publicly that meant a whole lot to me that you would leave your home that that you would make travel arrangements to get to dallas and to step you know into that hospital room and and and you know and i was not the best sight i had tubes coming out of my neck you know kathy kathy was embarrassed to know me she wouldn't come see me pastor craig but you were there Well, it was all about that gown. It was. That too about your neck was something else. It was a fine gown. But then, you know, it's when you go through anything health-related, you really are auditing, like, what's helpful, what's not. And so, you know, and I've heard you talk about Dr. Chappelle before and just say, man, this guy, for such a time as this, showed up at the right time at the right place and was really helpful to me. And now you're documenting, hey, these are the things that are most helpful to help you heal your hurting mind. For a long time, they thought, hey, you break your mind. You're kind of like that's your lot in life. You're dealing with a broken mind. But one of the greatest discoveries in our lifetime is neuroplasticity, this idea that our mind can actually heal itself. And so what was the break? Like what for you, what happened where you're like, all right, I need help. I need to reach out to help for someone. So if somebody's listening to this, because a lot of our audiences, they're in their 20s. And I imagine, you know, for them, they're going through things you went through later on right now. Well, you know, it's interesting, JP. One, I was honored to come see you because I just genuinely love you and your family and value you as a friend. But when you, if your body breaks down, you break an arm, you know, you have a heart attack, something like that. You go see a doctor and no one questions it. It's obvious that you need help. But sometimes when you're struggling with mental health issues, there can be at times like a little bit of a stigma toward that. Or, you know, people say you look fine when you're really not. And so there's sometimes there's hesitation and I think less today than years ago. But even in the church, people may feel like I'm not a strong Christian because I've got anxiety or whatever. So to answer your question, for me, what happened is I started getting anxiety, which I'd never really had extreme anxiety before. And then I got to a place where there was like mental fog and I could be somewhere and then not even actually remember many details from there. And that's just not like me at all. And then I had just kind of a time where I thought this is just too much. and I felt trapped in a job that had kind of outgrown me or, you know, calling that was more than I had been able to handle. And it just wasn't that way before. It was a little by little, by little, by little, by little. And I just was smart enough or sober enough to recognize the trajectory of this is not going in the right direction. And if I don't disrupt this pattern, then I thought it could, you know, it could take me out, meaning like it could just be too much one day. And it sounds dramatic, but that's where my mind was at the time. And so I started asking for help and I would just say, like, I'm not doing very well. And everybody say, okay, well, you know, what do you want to do? And I'd say it again, like, I'm not, I'm not doing great. I didn't have high emotional expression at all. And because I wasn't crying, I wasn't panicking or just stating it. And I was hoping someone would come in and say, well, let's do something about it. And I didn't realize that I really had to take the first step. And that's when I started asking some people Like, who do you know that might be someone good to talk to? And that's how I met Dr. Chappelle. But I would just say, you know, to someone out there right now, if you're a little bit more isolated, you don't typically heal in isolation. And Dr. C, as I call him, he always says, you never become your best version of yourself by yourself. And that's what I recognize. You know, we really need not just God, but we need God's people. We need his community. We need counsel from others who are wiser than us. We need to be discipled in the word. Even as pastors, you know, I was looking, he was helping me look at the word again and not just the word to share with someone else, but the word to receive for myself. And so it was a process that was worthwhile and sometimes painful, but it's worth it. You don't become the best version of yourself by yourself. Oh, man. That's, you know, we say, often say idiosyncrasies grow in isolation. and when we're by ourselves, we get weirder and weirder and weirder. So it's actually, you know, we digress. Or digress. We go the wrong way. You know, the same thing happened to me or something very similar. And the way, if you're at the circus and you see the person, you know, spinning the plates, they have the sticks and they've got the plates spinning. And, you know, they do three and everybody applauds. And they do six and everybody applauds. and they're just trying to keep the plate spinning and eventually one falls and shatters and hits the ground and they kind of panic and put another one up there. At some point, they all just come crashing down and for me, that's what it felt like. It felt like I was spinning one plate and everybody was like, wow, look at this guy. He's so good. He can spin a plate. And then I was like, oh, I can do two. Look, here's two plates. And they're like, wow, this is incredible. And then it was like three and then four. and then the fifth one fell and I'm like trying to fix it. No, no, I didn't need the, you know, and then it's like, and then it felt like one day they just all came crashing down and I went from being able to spin six plates to no plates. I'm like, no plates, I can't spin anything right now. And I'm like, I don't know what happened. Like my thoughts are so fragmented and scattered and I can't focus and I don't want to speak anywhere. I don't want to see anyone. And it was just like something broke. And it felt like when you're in the pit, it feels like you're going to stay in the pit forever and ever and ever and ever and ever. And if someone can throw a ladder down to you and they can help you get out of the pit. And it's just like this. I am so thankful. This is a crowded space. I mean, it feels like because of what's happening in our country right now. I mean, I remember forever, Pastor Craig, I taught on worry. I taught on anxiety. But looking back when I actually had anxiety, I was teaching on worry. That anxiety was this new spirit, this new thing. And this is a crowded space. And I think this is the most helpful resource I've seen on the topic from someone who has both gone through it themselves, found a trustworthy guide, and then had the intellect to say, hey, I want to bring the guide in with me to create the resource. So the book is Heal Your Hurting Mind. And I'm just really excited. Guys, nearly 900 people have signed up for Be So Live coming up, coming fast, which means there's only a few tickets left. April 24th, 25th in Waco, Texas. We got a lot of questions recently. Hey, can I come alone? Is that weird? There's all sorts of people coming alone. You're about to make some friends. You're about to make friends. Lifelong friends, like people who are going to be in your wedding. That's true. Yes. We've had people come, and now they vacation together every year. They're from all over the country. It's like their reunion. We love what we do. It's the greatest thing. And we want to meet you. We can't wait to meet you, guys. That's what Be So Live is. You guys come. You tell us what to talk about. And we want to hang out with you. BecomingSomething.com. Get your tickets. Join us. We'd love to see you there. Let's go. Yeah. I'm really intrigued to read your book because I think it's fascinating that you combine the spiritual component of how to approach these issues with the psychological and married the two together. Because Jesus, scripture, it speaks to like God wired our brains. He knows what is best for our brains. And I just feel like we haven't given God the credit in a way. And so I'm curious, what would you say, or maybe some of the top two takeaways or the things that you've learned of how scripture backs up what the medical psychological field has been saying for years? How has God's word already spoken to that? God created it all, right? And so I think one of the challenges, Kathy, is that sometimes we don't really understand how God made us. And so when you look at it, God is a triune God. he's he's father son and holy spirit he created us in his image and scripture tells us that we are spirit soul and body a lot of times we think well maybe like i'm just i'm a body or i'm a body with a soul but the truth of the matter is we're spiritual beings without christ we're spiritually dead but we're spiritual beings so we are a spirit that lives in a body that has a soul and in our soul that's that's our that's our mind our will and our emotions and so sometimes if we think I'm not doing well, we don't understand kind of what part of us God needs to heal. And so we're talking practically, um, like Dr. Chappelle might say, he might say, well, you've got, you know, really bad, um, path neural pathways in your mind. You keep thinking the wrong thoughts over and over again. So once you think a thought, it's easier to think that same thought. So you need to renew your thoughts. And so that would be a psychological way of saying we need to change our thinking. Well, it's all over the Bible, right? Do not be conformed to the patterns of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Don't think on the wrong things. Think on things that are excellent, worthy of praise. And so scripturally, renewing our mind is working with the way God wired us and our spirit, soul, and body are all connected. So you can be spiritually saved in a moment. Your sins are forgiven. You're spiritually new, but your body doesn't change. You still may need to gain 10 pounds or lose 10 pounds. And so salvation is instant, but sanctification or healing is generally a process. And as Christians, one of the things I had to learn was even though I might've been walking with Jesus for a long time and spiritually had a fairly good understanding and physically was pretty good, mentally and emotionally, there were some things in me that needed healing. And that was where I, when I started seeing the different parts and components separately and how they interrelated it gave me some breakthroughs of how I could go to God and hear from Him to heal one part of the way He created me that then therefore would affect all the parts What was most helpful to you in that journey? What were the things that today you look back and you're like, man, that was a real handhold for me to heal my hurting mind? Yeah, I even hate talking about it because every person is different, right? When you went through what you went through, Pastor, you know, your journey out was different than mine. And mine's almost embarrassingly simple. I got to a point where we'd worked through all this stuff. And he said, essentially, you have severe occupational burnout. And what you need to do is, it's all you think about. And I knew how to just give, give, give, but I didn't know how to replenish myself. And so he said, I want you to make a list of 30 different things that are scary to you, adrenaline inducing, like jump out of a plane, climb a high mountain, a race, um, a race car, race motorcycles. And I thought, this is the dumbest thing ever. Like you want me to get a hobby. And, and I just really resisted it. And I told him, I think this is dumb. And he said, we're kind of at the moment of truth now. And this is what I'd say to maybe anybody who gets help is you're going to get to a place where the point at you, the point at which you resist the hardest is often when you're closest to the breakthrough, right? Or the, the, the thing that you push back on the most is often where you're most vulnerable. And so I just pushed back and he said, you can fire me and start over with somebody else and go through the whole process and get to the same place. Or you can fire me and continue to struggle. Or you can shut up, humble yourself and go do something scary. And so I did. And it's too silly. I just tried two things. I started doing jiu-jitsu, which I've talked to Pastor JP about some and would love to have you on the mat sometime. Nate and I both, Pastor Craig, we're coming for you. Nate's been talking mad trash behind your back, man. Let's do it. Anyway, and then I started taking flying lessons, and both those things were so far out of my comfort zone, I was just not any good at either one of them, didn't have a whole lot of interest. And so it simultaneously humbled me when I was getting beat up by guys much younger than I am and learning that I don't know anything about flying planes, it both humbled me and it created confidence. And it disconnected my mind from what was overwhelming to me. And slowly but surely, oddly enough, the pain and the anxiety was disappearing, and I was getting better. And so that was a really weird journey toward it. And I wish there was something more profound or different or deeper than that, but I just didn't have a life and wasn't doing something that disconnected my mind and those things did. And those rhythms have taken something new for me was enough to get back into healthy rhythms of not just giving out, but replenishing what helps fill me up so that I can do the work of God. That's good. So I know getting help for you was a critical part of your journey. And I hope any listener who's struggling, that's like the thing that they're taking away is tell someone, keep telling someone, tell someone until we can get the help. Yeah, tell the right people to tell the right people. That's a very good. Some of our, some of our coping, um, mechanisms today are probably a little bit counterproductive. I think at times, we don't, we don't want to, um, don't want to just broadcast everything broadly. And maybe, maybe sometimes this can be helpful, but you want to be strategic. And then you also don't want to identify with your diagnosis. You don't want to identify. I think it's a real common problem today is that, and that's one of the things Dr. C says, is I don't like to diagnose people. I work against it as long as I can because if a diagnosis is helpful, if it creates the desire to make the right changes, but it's very, very dangerous if it becomes, if you start to identify with it, it's something that I'm working to overcome, but it's who I am. We see a lot of that today, people identifying with, and then almost protecting an unhealthy diagnosis. Like, don't mess with my anxiety. You don't understand my anxiety. I would even say, like, let's not call it my anxiety. I don't want it to be mine. Let's go real slow in that turn. A diagnosis is helpful. How do you say it? It's helpful if it... If you recognize it's something that you want to change. Okay, so like you see it, you're like, okay, this is... Something's broken and needs to heal. That's good. That's good. if it becomes something that we identify with it's not just something i struggle with but i am this it's not like i'm having anxiety but i am an anxious person we don't want to identify with something that's contrary to god's word okay somebody needed to hear that i hope they hung out hung in there with us because somebody needed to hear that what would you say to young adults who they are in a state of life where maybe they're not like overwhelmed by all the things that you're carrying but they're overwhelmed by their life not going according to plan like they're not married and they want to be, they're in a career they don't feel fulfilled in, they don't have the type of money that their friends do, and then they just lay in bed at night and they can't turn their mind off. I'm unhappy with my life. I'm worried about the future. What can they do as they're laying in bed just overwhelmed with the current state of their life? Is there anything they can do in those moments? They can't necessarily go fly a plane when they're laying in bed. What can they do then? I wouldn't want them to do that. But, no, Nate, that's a super good question. And first I'd start with like extreme empathy because I would not want to face the same battles 22-year-olds are facing today. It is really complicated. And we know, I mean, just the amount of unhelpful information that we're exposed to, we know the comparisons of feeling left out less than on social media. And then like literally being discipled by algorithms and people, I don't think most of us have really any idea just how much our thinking and our worldview is shaped by algorithms that could take us to a place of feeling unproductive, not healthy, less than left out, not succeeding. And so I start with a place of not judgment, but empathy on it. It is difficult. It's challenging. And then I'd say a couple of other things. If you're in bed like that struggling, there are tools, very specific tools. And spiritual, like we're going to take thoughts that are not pleasing to God. We're going to take them captive and we're going to replace them with thoughts that are. And so literally just that, that's super powerful and incredibly helpful. Breathing techniques. If you're feeling anxiety, we're going to breathe in for a five count, hold our breath for a five count, breathe out our mouth for a five count. and neurologically that just kind of resets your body. That's going to be important. But then on a deeper level, I would say too, one of my heartbreaks for the younger generation because there's just this sense of unsettledness, dissatisfaction. Nobody feels like they're making it. And I just kind of want to, if I could sit down with everyone one-on-one and just ask them questions and talk about it and say, you know, you're actually probably doing much better than you realize that your whole life doesn't need to be in place by 25. It's not going to be in place by 25. You're writing a chapter today, a page today, a page tomorrow, a page the next day. And what you want to do is just really work to be effective today. Being at a job you don't love is part of life. It's one of the best things you can do sometimes is actually literally be at a job that you don't love. It's you don't have to chase your passion for everything. At some point, you can just do something that pays the bills. And that's character building. You can learn to work with people that you don't love. You can be under a boss that's not great. And that does something in you that if you're ever the boss, you're going to be a better boss. Some of the best bosses have to be under bad bosses. If you're under a bad boss right now, don't freak out about it. Learn from it. Some of the seasons that you like the least are the most helpful for your future. So helpful. I wanted to just say, quit panicking. Don't freak out. You're not doing bad. This is a part of the process. The Holy Spirit hasn't left you. God is directing your steps. Hard times make you better. And so I start with empathy, but then I get a little bit of the coach or the dad in there going like, you don't need to be afraid of missing the best things. The best things are right in front of you. You don't have to go travel Europe in a backpack to have a meaningful life. You can actually love the person at the job you don't like today, and that's a meaningful life. Yeah. Amazing. I love how you started. It is a difficult time to be a young adult. It is. It's very difficult. we're seeing the highest levels of anxiety highest levels of depression highest levels of burnout highest suicide rates sexual temptation that takes you away lack of relational intimacy it's very very very challenging but it's doable too you can still it's not going to work very well about Jesus but with Jesus you can be effective today and you don't try to win the big trophy in the future everyone's there's so many people are searching for this life that they see on social media that's not real yes it's not real people are thriving and just like one observation i've i've had is like some of the people who are thriving the most have been dealt the most difficult hands and so it's not like there's a disqualifying hand you were dealt you know your mom and dad were divorced or they they left at an early age and um you know or there's a diagnosis in your review mirror or I mean, just really there is anything that you're dealing with. God and his people coming around you can help you, and you may need to, if you're drowning, I mean, you may just need to be the one that shouts, help, like help me in the right direction. You know, if you're drowning, find the lifeguard, and, you know, find the Dr. C, find the Pastor Craig Rochelle, find the right resource, heal your hurting mind, and get help. I want to ask you, you said there briefly, you know, take every thought captive. Is there something there practical Like is there a way to do that Because I had conversations with people that are like I want to but how do I take the thought captive Is that a wrestling it down Is that you know do I write the thought down What does it look like practically for me to take the thought captive and make it obedient to Christ? Yeah, super good question. So the first thing you have to do is you have to recognize when your thoughts are contrary to God's word. And so we have a lot of them. I mean, so many of them. I think we're born with the sin nature. So we're biased to thoughts that are contrary to God's word. So you recognize whatever it is. And then what I like to do is I like to take scripture then and say, what is a scripture that is the truth that I want to remember? And then you can either kind of confess that scripture over and over and over again, or you can personalize it and kind of make it into a statement that is very real to you. For example, we have everything we need for life and godliness. We know that's true. God has given us everything in Christ. And so for me, I would say that I have everything I need to do everything that God calls me to do. That's how I would say it when I'm feeling overwhelmed. Now breathe in. Okay, now I have the Holy Spirit in me. I have the Word of God. I've got good people around me. I've got a great marriage. I've got good, good, strong relationships. I've got the Spirit of God, the Word of God, the power of God. I have everything I need to do everything God calls me to do. And so you can kind of personalize God's Word. And I always would say it this way, like write it, like put it down. There's something that happens when you write. You can type it too, but I even like to write it. They say that there's a neurological thing that happens when you write it. Write it, think it, confess it until you believe it. Write it, think it, confess it until you believe it. This is not positive confession. This is renewing your mind with truth, with the truth of God's word. And that's one of the most powerful things you can do. You're literally creating new neural pathways without the lies of the evil one, but with the truth of God's word that then renews your mind. And if you think on those things, that's going to impact your mood, your emotions, even the chemicals your body releases change. And so that's how the whole taking one area of what God created us and how it overlaps in the other areas that it helps people to find healing. That's one of the most powerful places to start is taking thoughts captive. Whatever is, I'm not good enough. I'm not going to make it. I'm always going to battle with lust. I'm never going to have a good relationship with it. No, no, no, no, no. That's not God's word. What does his word say? Write it, think it, confess it until you believe it. I'm going to ask you in a second just any closing thoughts that you have for our audience. But I want to say this. If you're a fan of Be So, I mean, you've tracked with us, maybe you've listened to every episode. There's probably a question of, you know, how do they choose guests and who comes on and, you know, why these books? And I want to answer that and just say every literally every single week, sometimes multiple times a week, I get an email from a publicist from a publisher and they are saying, hey, here's, you know, who you should have on the podcast. And this happens. I mean, it's almost daily. I don't want to overstate and say daily, but multiple times a week. I would say for sure. I mean, you would say for daily. I don't know. I'm just so careful with my words. at least multiple times a week. Like, hey, you need to have this person on and they need to talk about this book. And so you need to know as a Be So listener that we say no, I don't know how many times. I mean, 10 to one, 20 to one, some very frequent number. No, we're not going to do that. You know, we're not going to have that person on. And I'm a simple guy. I mean, it's just like, as I go through life, I feel like God has just poured out grace and favor and has just been undeserving to me. And I'm looking for the people that have been helpful to me. And Pastor Craig is someone that God in his providence has allowed me. I mean, I've seen this man. His wife loves him. I mean, they have an amazing marriage. They have raised kids who love Jesus, a lot of them. They have a ministry in their home. A lot of children who love Jesus. and they've got those some of those kids have in-laws who love jesus and seeking the church and and um and you're you're leading a church you're teaching the bible i you you kind of move in and you know through different denominations it feels like you can just kind of go you could be planted in any meeting and add value you have a podcast and write a lot on leadership and then you guys are the most innovative of anyone I've ever met in terms of, I mean, you just helped put the Bible on over a billion devices. That's a billion with a B. I saw you guys were featured in the Bible Museum. It's just there in D.C. It's hard to understand. And I know that like just when God really uses you, no one is more critical of Christianity than Christians And I hate that. But I just want to be an encouragement to you and say, I mean, you are doing it like God's grace on your life. It's incredible to watch. It's amazing to learn from. I mean, you are on the very top of a short list of people. I want anyone that's learning from me to learn from. And I'm just grateful for you. I'm going to interrupt you because you're going way too long. And all that to say, I think, correct me if I'm wrong, but I think I sought you out. I think I made the first move because I was watching just your impact. I thought you had the wrong number. Your ability, one is your passion to teach the word just very clearly, but in a way that is so direct, so clear, and so loving, but direct. direct and loving into the younger generation. And you were impacting my kids so directly that I just wanted to know you and learn from you. So the respect is mutual that, you know, I genuinely reached out to you because I admire what you're doing and want to learn from you and try to ask you more questions than you can get out to me because I think that God's hand is on you. All of you guys, Nate and Kathy, what you're doing is really special. and the way that you're disarmingly authentic and truthful to this generation is so important and I just applaud that. I'd say to your community that's listening, you're smart. Continue just to listen, ask the hard questions, listen for truth, take truth, apply it. You're under great teaching and so I'm honored to be with you. We love you and we're grateful for you. Any closing thoughts that would be helpful in terms of healing? Heal Your Hurting Mind is the book by Pastor Craig Groeschel with his doctor, Dr. Wayne Chappelle, or Dr. C, as he refers to him in the book. Yeah, any thoughts for our audience? I close it out, and this reflects you so much, but one of the most important statements that we make in the book is that you're only as strong as you are honest. And that's what I love about you is like you're just almost honest to a fault. I mean, when we get together and talk about anything and everything, right? I mean, he'll just go on a while. That's a little bit much. Tell me everything. But there's so much power in that. So I just say to your community, thank you for being a part and listening to what this team puts out. But if there's a point of vulnerability anywhere, if it's pride, if it's anger, if it's overspending, if it's overeating, if it's lustful issues, if it's sexual addictions in other ways, whatever it is, you're only as strong as you are honest. And if you can be honest and admit, um, we, you know, we're all broken in some ways. And so it's not like, um, there's a hero helping the, um, the broken person, but there's broken people helping broken people get to Jesus. You see it all through Mark's gospel. You see four guys bringing their friend to Jesus. You see some friends bringing a blind guy to Jesus. And so that's just what we do is we bring, help bring each other to Jesus and his presence. We do find healing, but it starts with honesty. Um, it, it happens best in community. It's centered on his word. It's empowered by his spirit and it's built by the resurrected Christ. If we can keep that in mind, um, there's no, there's no brokenness. I believe that, um, God can't, God can't touch and God can't heal. That's a great word. Pastor Craig, you have a lot of campuses, a lot of staff members, a lot of ministries. Do any of them have use for a boot, like a giant inflatable boot? It's really big, 15 feet tall. Really cool. We can find, let me give it some thought. We'll figure out where can we put the boot? We will give you an amazing deal. Normally I could come up with something, but right now, Kathy, I'm actually struggling. brother thank you for coming on guys get the book available everywhere books are sold heal your hurting mind we're with Pastor Craig Rochelle thank you so much for your time you've always been generous with your time we're grateful I love you guys thanks for helping me on thanks Nate thanks Kathy thanks JP and good luck on the boot we'll see you guys soon bye Thanks for tuning in to Becoming Something, where we promise to keep the conversation honest and real for young adults in their 20s and 30s. Every moment we live is training for a future moment, and that's why we do this podcast, because we want you to be prepared for everything that life is going to throw at you. Our hope with this podcast is that it would help you become all that God desires you to be. To find out more, visit becomingsomething.com.