5th Commandment: Honor Your Father and Mother

The Ten Commandments, or the Ten Words, as they're called in the Bible, are a pathway to life. They're not just a list of rules to check off, they're a collection of wisdom that invites us to reframe how we think and relate to everything. The first four commands tell us about how to relate to God. No other gods, no idols carry the name of Yahweh and keep the Sabbath. And then, the last five commands become all about how we relate to other humans. Don't kill, don't commit adultery, or steal, or lie, or covet. But right in the middle is command number five, and it acts like a hinge between how we relate to God and how we relate to other humans. In particular, two humans. Honor your father and your mother. And this is the only command that comes with a promise. So that your days may be prolonged in the land which Yahweh your Elohim gives you. So it seems that honoring your parents is connected to receiving life from God. But there's a lot of people we could honor. Why focus on these two humans? Your father and your mother are the ones who gave you life. And your Elohim is the one who gives you and your father and mother a land where you can have life. How I relate to somebody who generated and sustained my existence. That's a unique relationship and that needs to be treated in a special way. And that special way is called honor. For followers of Jesus, the wisdom of the fifth command became how they honored everyone who came before them. Especially the widows, creating a culture where the elderly are taken care of. Even if they're not, you're biological parents. I think part of what made the early Jesus communities so socially powerful over time was how they relativized blood ties and created a sense of family bonds beyond that of actual physical lineage and kinship. And that's a way to honor God. Today Tim Mackey and I talk about the fifth command and how it's command with a promise. Long life in the land with durable, caring communities. Thanks for joining us. Here we go. Hey, Tim. Hello, John Collins. Hello. Working through the 10 words, the 10 commands. Big 10. We've talked about how all the commands of God are an invitation into life. It's not about a checklist, duty and obligation. It's about how do you find life, true life? Yep, God's commands, yeah. True life. Yep, God's commands, yeah, are for life and they invite us into habits, practices that lead to life and they also keep us away from things that will bring us towards death. Thou shalt and thou shalt not. Yeah. Yeah. Well, and when they're presented that way, thou shalt, thou shalt not, it feels like just a strict set of things to adhere to and it seems like what we're doing is we're inviting ourselves into looking at these as God's wisdom for us and to mind them deeply. It isn't about just crossing these off a list. It's about reframing the way that we think and interact and live. Yeah. I mean, every time that you tell someone what to do, underneath it, there's a set of reasons that presumably have been thought out that the command is an effort to get them to something good or better than they presently experience on large scale and small. Don't run out into the street, Johnny, which is an essence like preserving your life is good, getting run over is not. So we're trying to mine the commands for these subterranean values and pointers towards the good. Yeah. The ancient context is that Israel has just left Egypt. They were slaves there. They're now in the wilderness. God wants to prepare them to be his people who are going to bring blessing to the world as this phrase, kingdom of priests. These kind of like intermediators of God's life to the rest of the world. And there's all sorts of laws and statutes and regulations that God's going to give to Israel throughout the course of their time in the wilderness. These are the first 10. It's the first 10. Yeah. And they stand apart, right? Yes. Yeah, they have been set apart because there's 42 more after them that come very quickly in Exodus 20 through 23. And many of them take their cue from the 10 and fill out through case studies and examples, work out in more detail the 10, which means that somebody set these 10 apart for a reason and called them the 10 words. Yeah. That's what they're called. And drew attention to that these were inscribed in stone. Yeah. Uniquely, these were put on the stone tablets. Yeah. So we looked at one through four. Yes. And we've pointed out that all of these are emphasizing your relationship with God. Yes. Yeah. There's this repeated phrase of God saying, I am Yahweh, your Elohim. This is how you act in relationship with me. Yeah. Honor me alone, not any other gods because those gods are creatures, not creators. Don't make any physical representations of God and honor them as if they are your creator. Don't carry the name of Yahweh, your Elohim for a futile purpose. Don't misrepresent me essentially in word or indeed. And then honor the seventh day rest and imitate Yahweh's rhythms of work and rest. This commands one through four. Humans relating to God. What's interesting is commands six through 10 are a lot shorter. Literally commands six, seven and eight are two words each in Hebrew. Don't kill, don't... Adulterize. Adulterize, don't steal. And then number nine, don't bear false witness. Number 10, don't covet or desire what is in yours. Those are all very clearly like about you and other humans. So you go from four about you and God, the last five are you and other humans. And then in between them is a command that sticks out and is different from the others in a number of different ways. That's command number five. And that is honor your father and mother is like this hinge. And essentially the logic of how the command works is that how you relate to a particular pair of humans bears special importance on your relationship to God. How you relate to God is really connected to how you relate to these two humans. Now how you relate to all humans is also how you relate to God. Love God, love your neighbor like that little pairing that Jesus distilled the laws of the Torah. Yeah, but who is my neighbor? Who is your neighbor? Definitely true. Your parents are your neighbor. In fact, your parents are more than your neighbor. Parents have a really unique relationship to the humans that come from them. And that's what we're going to meditate on. So honor your father and mother stands at the hinge between how you relate to God and how you relate to your neighbor. So we look at the fifth command. Let's do it. Fifth command reads like this in this Exodus version. Honor your father and your mother so that your days may be prolonged in the land which Yahweh your Elohim gives you. There's a little promise in there, a little so that. Yeah, a little so that. Yeah. Yeah. So there's a command. There's just one verb, honor. We'll need to talk about that verb. Then there's your father and your mother. Why them specifically? We'll need to talk about that. But then we do have this little result so that you live long, late days in the land. So in the last conversation, we talked briefly about how many of the 10 commands feel immediately universal for anybody of any time, any place. Don't kill. Don't commit adultery. The Sabbath feels pretty particular to a specific religious liturgical calendar of the ancient Israelites. But this command too also has a pretty specific connection to the story of Israel being told in the first Bible, the Bible. So that your days may be prolonged in the land Yahweh your Elohim is giving you. That's referring to a very specific part of the plot line. That they've been rescued from Egypt. They're in the wilderness, but they're going to a place that will be theirs, a land. That Yahweh's promising them. Yeah, land of Canaan. Land of Canaan. Yeah. So on the narrative level, that's the land being referred to. So then you have to ask yourself, okay, that's interesting. How does honoring your father and mother... Yeah, why that one? Result in long days in the land. Yeah. Isn't that interesting? Because what seems to be the problem once they're in the land is that they commit idolatry. Yeah. Yeah. That's one of the big ones. Becomes the big issue, right? One of the main issues? A main issue, yeah. The prophets will take up the issues of idolatry alongside corrupt leadership and corrupt economic and political injustice to the poor and neglect of the poor. Yeah. Those are the big ones in the prophets. Yeah. Not the fact that they weren't honoring their father and mother. That doesn't become a focus, right? Not a huge focus, but it is mentioned. It is mentioned. Yeah. It is mentioned, for example. Ezekiel in Ezekiel chapter 22, he says, Look, the princes of Israel, each according to his strength, are shedding blood. And they have treated father and mother with contempt. And they violate the immigrant with extortion. They mistreat the orphan and the widow. And they profane my Sabbaths. So Ezekiel's hit list right there. So notice, father and mother's right in there. It is in there. But that's not very common. So why is the so that applied to this one? Exactly. Yes, totally. So let's think about what is it that sets a relationship between a human and their parents apart and make it different from how you relate to your neighbor, the people you live in your town with? What's different about that relationship? It might seem perfectly obvious, but I think it's good for us to think about it. There's something different here, something important. So maybe first off, your mom and your dad, whether they're together or not anymore, that is all these possible scenarios. But if you're a human and you exist, it's because there was a man and there was a woman, I trust, we're all not learning anything right now. And they got together, their bodily fluids mixed. And you and I, if you're listening to this, are a result of that. Yeah. So there's a pair of humans. You were formed from them. Right. That is not true of my neighbor. My neighbors did not generate my existence. Yeah. Yeah. Now they might help sustain my existence or keep order on my street. And so we're in it together. And so we might sustain our existence together, but neighbor didn't generate my existence. That's only two humans were part of that. So that's one thing. Yeah. That's a pretty important distinction. And there's only ever two humans for any of us of whom that's true. I guess what are other things that set that relationship apart? So this isn't going to always be the case, but mostly it's that these humans are a vital part of you then growing up and becoming an adult person. Yeah. Whether or not, yeah, a father and mother did do that for their kids. Just this expectation that parents ought to do that. Yeah. Yeah. Provide an environment where their kids can grow, flourish. Yeah. And learn what they need to learn. Learn, be nurtured, nourished, all those things. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. And that my parents know me in a way that no other humans know any other person. Yeah. They've seen them develop and grow. So not only did one's parents generate your existence, they also sustained it over a long period of time ideally and at great cost to themselves. Yeah. Yeah. Now in the ancient setting this is in, I imagine it's going to be pretty much always the case that you're growing up in the household of your biological parents. Right. And for granted here. Let's take it for granted. Yeah. When would that not be the case in the ancient context? Oh. My parents died? Yes, parents died. Yeah. Now I'm probably with my aunties and uncles or something. Yep. Yeah. Exactly like Lot in Abraham, where Sarah's home. Right? That's why Lot went with Abraham and Sarah because Abraham's brother, Lot's dad died. Yeah. So one, another might be that parents lose economic stability and so they have to sell themselves or the members of their family into debt slavery. Ancient Israel is a culture where debt slavery was a common social economic practice. Would parents do that? Would they say, I want to take my kids? I owe you money, take my kids. Parents could and did, yeah, sell children. Yeah. Jeez. Because they couldn't afford them? Yeah. Or, I mean, you can imagine outside of Eden every horrible way that that could happen has happened, you know, in human history. But yes, that was a viable option on the table. Not to say that anybody thought it was a good option, but it was an option. So when we talk, father and mother here, you started with the two people who are physically responsible for your existence in the world. You can imagine a lot of scenarios in the ancient context like Lot, where you're suddenly not with your father and mother. Right, yeah. And so is this also an ancient Israelite thought of your father and mother? Does that transfer to other caregivers? That's a good question. Speaking of Abraham and Lot, when Lot is an adult and starts to develop his own wealth in terms of sheep herds and Abraham and Lot's shepherds get into conflict with each other, Abraham calls Lot his brother. You and I are brothers, he says. So he more treats him as a peer in that way. When technically they're... When technically, what he is, his uncle, or he's his nephew, nephew, it's a nephew-uncle relationship, but they call them brothers. So yeah, maybe I feel at this moment I would want to do a little more concordance work on that to upload how kinship terms work that way. When the nephew becomes a brother, can anybody become a brother? But I'm pretty sure that a father and a son don't ever call each other brother. Right, well I guess I'm imagining a scenario where your brother dies and he's got a bunch of young kids that you take in. Right, sure. Are you now father or are you still uncle? Yeah, that's a great question. I hesitate to go off the top of my head because I haven't recently uploaded anything on that. That's a good question. You're certainly becoming like a figure like Boaz in the story of Ruth. You are... A redeemer. Yeah, you're redeeming extended family members from a really difficult, terrible situation. Would you go to these new kids and be like, hey guys, Yahweh El-Him says, honor me. Can you pull that card? Yeah, I don't think that's how it worked, but then there are practices of adoption happening within the Hebrew Bible. Moses becomes a son to the daughter Pharaoh and therefore a son to Pharaoh. And then he marries into just his family and there is the term for father-in-law. But whether somebody who takes in a family member's children takes on the role or the title of father, like a surrogate father, I don't know off the top of my head. I guess the question under the question is, is this law really focused in on the biological? Oh, I think so. I think so. And actually here, just real quick, if you just look at it, there's kind of three in grammar terms, three clauses to this fifth command. First is the main sentence, honor your father and mother. Then you have a so that, so that your days may be prolonged in the land. And then the land gets a little qualifier, the land which Yahweh your Elohim gives you. So it begins with honor your father and mother. It ends with which Yahweh your Elohim gives you. Once the your is repeated, your father, your mother, your Elohim at the beginning and ending. And then in the middle is the long days in the land. So what's fascinating is your father and your mother are the ones who gave you life. And your Elohim is the one who gives you and your father and mother a land where you can have life. Right. So there's some analogy between Yahweh your Elohim gives you the land. Land is where you're going to live and have life. And that they're set in parallel to your father and your mother who are the ones who gave you life. So there's even in the literary design of these three parts of the command, your father, your mother, your Elohim are set into a relationship. And I think that's part of that bridge. So how I relate to somebody who generated and sustained my existence, that's a unique relationship and that needs to be treated in a special way. And that special way is called honor. So maybe we should talk about that word. Yeah, let's talk about that word. But let me just press one more time. You just said created and sustained. Your biological parents created you. Oftentimes your biological parents are the ones sustaining you. Yeah. But not always. Yeah, not always. But ideally we're working in the realm of ideals here. We're working in the realm of ideals. Okay. We'll stay there then. Yeah. Let's talk about honor. So the word honor comes from the Hebrew verb kabed. Kabed. We've talked about the word. Kabod. Yes. The same root, kaphbeidalit, from which the Hebrew noun gets generated kavod, which is typically translated glory. Honor and glory. Honor and glory. So we have separate words. Honor and glory. In English, in Hebrew you have kavod as the noun and kabed is the verb. Okay. You have honor and honor. Yeah. Or glory and glory. Yeah. So it would be glory and glorify or honor and honor. Outside of a religious setting, when I think of honor and glory, I just think of like, for some reason, like sports teams. I think of football or something. Oh, honor and glory. Yeah. Or combat. Yeah, totally. For honor and glory. Yeah. It's like a marine slogan or something. Yeah. Okay. So the most literal meaning of this root is from the root kaved, Hebrew. It means to be heavy, to have physical weight. Okay. So there's a story about an old priest in the book of Samuel named Eli and he hears some terrible news that his sons have died in an attack by the Philistines. And he's so shocked and heartbroken that he falls off his chair and then he breaks his neck and dies. And then the narrator says, oh yeah, you should know, he was old and really, really kaved. So there was a lot of physical force that went on to his like neck vertebra when he fell on the ground. Why? Because he was very heavy. Okay. Really heavy. So literally, the gravity pulls really hard on something because it's a lot of mass. And we have that turn of phrase, which I love, the gravity of the situation. Yeah, totally. And also the word heavy, like that's heavy. That's heavy. It's heavy, man. I don't know why I want to say man afterwards. It's kind of a surfer term. Yeah, it's heavy, heavy, man. Yeah. So when we say something is heavy or has gravity, it's important. Yeah, it's meaningful. Significant. Significant. Yes. Okay. Now that's essentially the heartbeat then of this word. So that's kaved. And then when the kav turns into a bh, kabed, now you are... You are heavy someone. You heavy someone, meaning you treat them as heavy. You treat them as having significance. And when the one that you are treating as significance, kabed, is God, most of our English translations use the word glorify. When you have you God? Yeah. And that's what the word glorify means, treating God as heavy. But what's interesting is that when this verb is about a human doing this to another human, most of our English translations translate honor. But it's the same word in Hebrew. Okay. But it seems weird to say glorify your father and mother. Yeah, it does sound weird. But it's the same word as like glorify God with me, like in the Psalms. Give glory to God. It's the same phrase. Give honor to God. So what I've started to do as a mental habit is when I see the word glory or glorify in an English translation, I'd insert the word honor. Because you can honor God. You can honor your parents. That feels natural. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So you can honor somebody with words, say things that are nice about them. Yeah. But you can also honor somebody through your actions. Here's some examples. In Proverbs chapter three, where a father is speaking to a son saying honor Yahweh from your wealth and from the first fruits of all your produce. So there's a little story underneath that. Yahweh is the one who gave you rain for your crops and created this whole setup so that when it rains on ground, especially on seeds that you planted, it grows food. Congratulations. You have an amazing harvest. You're not the heavy here though. You're not the heavy one. Yeah. Yahweh is the heavy one because he organized this whole system. So make sure that you honor Yahweh from your wealth, which means go take your first fruits and give them to God as a gift, a thank you gift at the temple. That's what it means. Yeah. Honor. So it's your actions. But then what you're doing is you are using what you have to attribute significance and honor to God. Oh, this is interesting. Proverbs 14, 31. The one who oppresses the poor taunts his maker, makes fun of his maker. But the one who is gracious to the needy honors him. This is a rad little meditation. Yeah. It's a great proverb. You're acting unfairly towards someone who has less than you, less economic stability. You are making fun of his creator. Wow. That's heavy. Staggering implications. But then the one who is generous to the needy honors him. Now there's some ambiguity. Who's the him? Are you honoring the person who has more need than you do? Or are you honoring the maker? I think it's probably an intentional kind of double meaning where you're honoring the person that you're giving it to because you're saying you're worth. You're worth having something here. Let me share with you. But then also you are honoring the creator of that person. These are two great examples because the word honor means treating as significant. And you can do that to God or you can do that to God by how you do it to people. So you can glorify God by saying, great is the Lord and retelling the story of the Exodus around the table. That's a way of glorifying or honoring God with your words. But then this word can also refer to physical actions. And notice both of them have to do with support, generosity, caring for. I guess in proverbs you're honoring God. You're not supporting God. Yeah. When you're bringing your produce and you're giving an offering, you are supporting the community. Yeah, you're supporting the priests. You're supporting the priests. Yeah. That's like they're like food. Yeah. That's what they eat. Yeah. Yeah, totally. So the word honor really works as the English translation. And the Hebrew meaning of honor really maps on closely at how we can refer to words. We can refer to actions, just treating someone with honor, saying nice things or just treating them with dignity. Maybe we might say. And then there's this financial image though, where honoring can and does often refer in the Hebrew Bible to sharing generosity, economic support. And that has led many people to think that, oh, well, first of all, honor your father and mother. Remember the first layer of audience in all of these commands, the you here is second masculine singular. It's not only guys. So it's talking to an adult male landowner. Okay. It's the first primary audience. And because in ancient Israel, that was a social structure of the ancient Near East and of Israel, which was ancient Near Eastern people. So this is a command given to adults about their parents, not to children about their parents. Oh, that's fascinating. As an adult, how do you treat your adult parents? Yes. Yeah. This is about an adult to adult relationship. So Paul the apostle will apply it to actual children who are still young in their parent homes. That's right. So there's a relevance there. Okay. So this is kind of first layer of meaning. This is about an adult to adult relationship. So what is very interesting is that is certainly how Jesus took its first layer of meaning. It's just interesting story in the gospels. It's in Matthew, Mark. I forget if it's in Luke. I'm pretty sure it's in Luke too. Where Jesus accuses the scribes and Pharisees who have developed a lot of additional wisdom and law around the 600 commands in the Torah. Because there's lots of gaps and ambiguities, if you can believe it, in the 600. And so they accused him of violating one of the laws of the Torah by not washing his hands before he eats. And if I remember correctly, this was an addition of taking purity laws over for the priests. And then applying it to everyone. For how they interact in their house. Yes. So there are laws for the priests about physical bathing and ritual washing as a symbol of purifying themselves before they go into the temple. And the Pharisees wanted more Israelites to live with the level of purity and dedication as the priests. So wash yourself like priests. Yep. So wash your hands before you eat. Like the priest washes before he goes in God's presence. Because when you're eating, you're in God's presence. Okay. And why when you're eating? Because you're taking something that you ultimately didn't produce and using it to sustain your life, which means that you are being sustained by God in that moment. Eating is a sacred activity. Oh, love that. I think it's actually rad. It's a rad way to think about the world. Thank you Pharisees. So after he gets accused of violating a law that they've expanded, right, the application of, he takes issue with them on another matter where they've done a similar thing. He says, okay, you know, you guys have a fine way of rejecting God's commands in order to keep your tradition. And what he means is these kinds of expansions of the laws of the Torah in the tradition of Pharisees. He says, listen, Moses said honor your father and mother. Moses also said anybody who speaks evil about his father and mother must be put to death. That's in later law. Yes, it is. Yeah. But then he goes on and says to the Pharisees, but you say that if anyone says to his father and mother, hey, mom and dad, I know you were expecting to get support from me in your old age, but the money that I set aside to do that for you, I dedicated it as a gift to God to offer to the temple. Sorry. And then he says, so then you no longer allow doing anything to support your father and mother. You are violating or making invalid the word of God through your tradition that you've handed on. So this is pretty detailed, but it's significant. And what are they doing exactly? Okay, if they're saying, hey, father and mother, I'm supposed to set aside money for you. The expectation is honor your father and mother. Jesus takes as being financial support. Financial support for your parents as they age. And the Pharisees say, well, you know, yes, do that, but there's a loophole, which is you can actually give that money as an offering to God instead. Yeah, there might be a case where you want to give a tithe of some income that you made to God and that might eat into the money that you set apart to honor your parents. And the Pharisees are like, that's fine. And so there apparently was a loophole where what you give to your parents could be lessened to prioritize that money as a gift to God. And Jesus like that's so backwards. Jesus is pretty frustrated because he's saying honoring your father and mother and the logic, I think for Jesus is, is how you honor God. You're actually taking away from honoring God by taking away from financial support for your father and mother. Do we have any more details about this loophole? Well, if you want, we could look it up. Oh, okay. So here, let's look to one of my favorite commentators on Matthew, New Testament scholar, Richard France. May he rest in peace? He summarizes the situation this way. He says, this practice with regard to offerings is described so briefly as to be quite cryptic to those who are not familiar with it. I'm feeling that. Yeah, totally. But Matthew's readers were presumably well aware of this convenient manipulation of the rules for the dedication of property. He goes on, there's a whole section of the Mishnah called Ned Arim, which means vows, where you could dedicate food or money or property to God, which meant donating it to the temple treasury. Anything that was dedicated like this was put out of reach of other people who might have had a claim on it. What's not clear is how such a dedication could be made without the donor also losing rights to the property. Yeah. There is the loophole. That's the loophole. So you put it in there, it's like a protective shell company kind of thing. Yes, that's right. So like you still have it without having to give it up because you donated it. Yeah, okay. And a vow dedicating something was regarded as binding unless it was specifically released by a rabbi. And there's all kinds of discussions about how to release that. So, okay, so maybe the idea is Jesus' point is you've created a system that allows for some games. A selfish adult son to quote unquote dedicate something to the temple and makes it off limits to support his parents, his aging parents. But he could have all kinds of motives and he could get that thing released later and liquidate that cash and get it back. I see. Yeah. Okay, but the point here is honor your father and mother is about you guys, we're supposed to support our parents as they age. Yeah. Jesus doesn't see honoring God by a gift to the temple as more important than honoring your father and mother. So fascinating. Yeah, especially when it can be abused. Especially when that system of dedication can be abused. You can think of many situations where it wasn't abused. But still he's more interested in this command. So the baseline for Jesus is the honor your father and mother means making sure that they are treated well and that their quality of life and their stability is provided for to the degree that you are able. That's at least its base level of meaning. So let's just pause there and just say different cultures have had different ways of expressing this intuition. But it is fairly universal, I think. People recognizing the two humans that produce me, I have a special obligation. They change my diapers one day and I need to change theirs to put it in that way. But that's true. And especially in more traditional contexts, having a large number of kids is a way actually to ensure you have someone around to help you. Your long-term future. So in a way, you're kind of setting up a social support web by having lots of kids. And that is often the case. So it's very common in most cultures for aging parents to move back in with their kids at some point for support. Yeah. Or in our context, sometimes it's the kids paying for them to have care. Yep. Yeah. To be able to keep living on their own or live with the necessary support or care. That's right. So this command's first layer of meaning is to adults, children, about how to relate to their adult parents. How they cared for you and generated you. You will never be the one who generated them, but you can reciprocate that care for them. And something about that reciprocation of care results in prolonged days in the land. Your days may be prolonged in the land which Yahweh, your Elohim, gives you. So there's long life in the land. How does a community have long multi-generational life? Yeah. In a place. In a place. It seems like it's naming that when there's harmonious intergenerational care and support, you're creating this human ecosystem that can actually endure through long periods of time in a healthy way. Yeah. Because the moment one generation kind of breaks that chain, a lot of people fall through the cracks. And it's through a chain of honoring those who brought you in honoring them, making this multi-generational chain. Yeah. Yeah. You know, I'm not probably as informed as I should be, but I have observed in the course of my short adult life, lots of commentary and news attention on the state of care for the elderly in our culture here in an American setting. There's a lot of problems with the systems for the care of parents in our culture right now and the way they're staffed, right? The way they're financed. It seems like there's a lot of broken spots in that system. And it's really sad. The stories that come out of that are really, really sad. So when it goes wrong, right? When that is broken in a culture, it really seems backwards that like this is the layer of people at any given generation who like put in the time and the effort to raise all of the people who are like working in productive and young adults now. And there's something, it's like a barometer of the health of the human community. Yeah. It's interesting. In our cultural context, it's more prominent to celebrate a bit of freedom and release from your parents and this independence of now I'm going to go and be my own person. Oftentimes if you get a job on the other side of the country or something, it's like you just go and you start over and you don't necessarily stay connected to this multi-generational vision of your family. Right. It could get separated pretty quickly. Yeah. So you say that's a result of a culture where economic mobility, right? And geographical mobility really stress tests the cohesion of a family in that way. I think that's part of it. Yeah. It's also just a lack of appreciation and imagination for being part of a multi-generational family. Yeah, the value there. And knowing the stories of your grandparents and appreciating that, maybe mourning and grieving a lot of it. Yeah, totally. I mean, this is so subjective because every family is so different. You know, anecdotally, my grandparents were amazing human beings. I didn't have a very close relationship with any of them. And what I'm observing as I'm raising children is we live close enough to our grandparents where my kids are getting a lot more time and a lot more history and relationship building with their grandparents than I ever did. And I actually thought a lot about how that's affecting their experience of the world. Like when humans grow up feeling like their own parents or source of stability for them, that's amazing when that happens. But then also there's this next layer up, right, of adults who are committed to you as a kid that starts creating a big web of order and stability that's really healthy, right, for human beings, I think. But then I think part of the fifth command is that that's a gift of God when you have that multi-generational support going down, but then it's supposed to invert, right? And then it's supposed to start going back up the chain. Yeah. So that the honor and support works both ways. And there's something that's an ideal. So we got here because you said so that things go well for you in the land. Yes. Length of days in the land is connected to this ecosystem of reciprocity through the generations. Yeah. So I think it's really beautiful and lacking. I also have seen where an obsession with multi-generational legacy and wealth and power starts to just get corrupted and gnarly or just kind of start to get in the way of other relationships and other things. The kingdom of God is... It's good. It's bigger than your family. It's bigger than your family. Who is my father and mother? As Jesus once said. Well, or... Or who's my... What does he say? Sorry, I'm just quoting Jesus. The same Jesus who just got in the Pharisee's face about not honoring father and mother. It's the same guy who said, anyone who doesn't hate their father and mother cannot be my disciple. Yeah, right? Yeah. Which he's going for a rhetorical shock factor there. Yeah. But he's also saying... And then what does he say? He says, who's my brother? What does he say? Yeah. His mother and brother's come. To talk to him about something. In Mark, it's Mark's accounts because they think he's out of his mind. And someone says, hey, your mother and brother's here. And he's like, who is my mom? Who are my brothers? Think how they felt in that moment. And he's like, anybody who is after the desire of my father, that's my mother, that's my brother, that's my sister. So he really expands his vision of family. Yes, he does. Yes. I'm so glad you're bringing this up. It's a really good point. I think part of what made the early Jesus communities so socially powerful over time was how they relativized blood ties, created a sense of family bonds beyond that of actual physical lineage and kinship. Absolutely. Now, Jesus is a little spicy when he says, hey, your father and mother. Yeah. But that's a rhetorical move. It seems like it's really just an expansion of this vision of honoring your father and mother and your brothers. It's about ultimate loyalty. Yeah. This is bigger. Yes, we need to protect this legacy, this chain, this multi-generational thing, but it's actually bigger than just us. Yeah, that's great. Yeah. In other words, how widows are cared for in my community for a follower of Jesus should also be on the radar when I think about my own widowed mother, for example. That's an example of mothers not currently widowed, literally. I'm just using that as an example. For Jesus, he wants us to expand the scope of the Fifth Commandment with how we care for others. But the logic is still there. So that things will go well for you in the land. The beauty of these communities expanding in such a way. Yeah. Actually, I'm really glad you brought this up too, because that expansion is also a key part of the message of the Hebrew Bible. Remember our whole study on the firstborn, which is about how the person who most consistently subverts this family lineage dynasty building habit that humans have is God. In the story of the Hebrew Bible, God's consistently disempowering the firstborn. Giving the rights to the secondborn. Giving the rights to some other son or child. Securing with the system. So both the Old and New Testaments recognize the problem inherent within multi-generational dynasty building. But at the same time, there is an important logic there. Something really true and beautiful about honoring your parents. Because your parents created you and gave you life. That's right. And their parents created them. And all of us find ourselves born into some form, some place in that chain. So when we really pull away from this, we can think about this very practically. Support your parents. And that's there. And that's to not be neglected. And then you can kind of start to pull back a little bit and think about this as a communal vision of reciprocal honoring of the other. Yeah, that's right. So for example, Paul the apostle will pull on and quote from this command right here in this letter to the Ephesians. When he's instructing fathers, husbands and wives, parents and children, slaves and slave owners, which is a typical structure of a Roman household. First century. First century Roman household. And so Paul takes a tradition from his day of instructing that whole set of people that he picked up from Aristotle and that's the whole thing. But he tweaks it in light of how Jesus redefines value and community and status and so on. But when he gets to children, he just quotes from this command. And he just says, children, obey your parents in the Lord for this is right, honor your father and mother, which is the first command with a promise Paul notices so that it may be well with you and have a long life on the earth. So Paul sees it as also applicable to children, actual like young children. But then Paul will also show us that especially in Ephesus and in Crete, his letter to Titus that care for widows, right? So care for aging parents that are not your own parents was also of highest priority in the early Jesus communities. And that's a way of honoring your spiritual fathers and mothers in the community. I've never quite thought about it that way until you brought this up. I'm so glad you did. Think about what this law, this command. Oh, no, the problematic of over emphasizing the physical lineage. And it's like you could start there. That's beautiful. Yes, start there and do that. But if you stop there, you actually are missing something even bigger. Yeah, you're missing out on Jesus' expansion of the community of disciples as a family. And so it's not just how adult children relate to their adult parents that can be a barometer of the health of the community, but also just how elderly parents and elderly people are treated within a community is also a barometer of the health of that community. And so the elderly are cared for in a Christian community. Paul just takes that for granted. I mean, you see it in the Acts, actually, that practice of caring for the elderly is right there in the Jerusalem community. In the book of Acts, it's a big emphasis there. You know, it's so interesting. We live in a really interesting time in human history. Oh, yeah. Right? So there's always more kids like populations growing up. The next generation is always bigger. Totally. There's always more kids. And that has been the case for all of human history until now. It's true. That's really true. Where populations are decreasing. And so you get these inversions of population graphs. So what's happening right now, all to say, is we have the largest group of elderly people, our grandparents and parents aging and needing support while we have a much smaller base of children. And in some places like Japan, it's like, it's really... It's full on, it's almost like crisis mode. Yeah. Yeah. So we're going to stop just to say, who's going to solve it? Who's going to step in and help us transition into this next era? That's good. And why not Christians? Yeah. Right? Like this is like our moment. This is the legacy. Like take care of... That's great. Because it's more complex and demanding and problematic than any time ever before. Yeah. Thank you. So good. And what we're discovering in this conversation is the wisdom of the fifth command. And then the way that the ideas driving the fifth command are developed in the teachings of Jesus and of the apostles is to expand the wisdom of the fifth command to how younger generations relate to older generations in the Christian community, which is to expand the number of elderly people you're honoring and caring for. And that's a way to honor God. And it's a good example of how a pressing issue in our culture and time that's kind of unique and different from how the biblical authors, what they face, but yet the values that they're working out in these teachings really are a resource for an issue in our day. And it's a chance for disciples of Jesus to step up to the plate. Thank you, John. So that it will be good for you in the land? And they'll have long life. Long life in the land? Yeah. In enduring healthy human community. Now we're outside of Eden, so we're all dying. But what we can do is create little spots where Eden overlaps with Earth. And that is a gift of God when it happens and it's a taste of what God has in store for all of creation on the long, long story. He's working out and honoring one's parents and honoring the elderly is a way to participate in the kingdom of God. There's a lot of wisdom there. Thanks for listening to this episode of Bible Project Podcast. Next week we look at command number six, do not murder or, as Tim translates it, do not kill. This is a great example of the Bibleist meditation literature. You hear, don't kill. There's something intuitive you're like, yeah, that sounds about right. But then you start to think, well, what about in this situation? What about self-defense? What about protecting someone else? And the biblical authors have already beaten you to the punch. This is going to lead us on a trail that, of course, as always, is going to lead back to Genesis 1 through 9. Bible Project is a crowd-funded nonprofit. We exist to help people experience the Bible as a unified story that leads to Jesus. And everything that we make is free because it's already been paid for by the generous support of thousands of people just like you. So thank you so much for being a part of this with us. Hi, my name is Shana, and I'm from St. Petersburg, Florida. Hi, my name is West, and I'm from the Bay Area. I first heard about Bible Project from a college ministry. I first heard about the Bible Project in my podcast app about 10 years ago, and I love it. I use Bible Project for the podcast, the glasses, and the videos. My favorite thing about Bible Project is definitely the classes where I get the opportunity to learn some things and then share it with a lot of the friends and cool people that I know. My favorite thing about Bible Project probably is the podcast, but also the humility with which they do great work for God's Kingdom spreading throughout the world. I love it. 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