513: Tiffany Aliche on What the Hard Years Teach You About Money and Resilience

The burnout is misalignment, not the hard work, because I can work hard in something that I really enjoy and it doesn't wear me out. And so because that's that inside outside, right? The inside says, oh, I really want to do it. And the outside does it. If the inside says, I don't want to do this. And the outside does it anyway. That's when you're misaligned. You're listening to Side Hustle Pro, the podcast that teaches you to build and grow your side hustle from passion project to profitable business. And I'm your host, Nikaela Matthews-Ocome. So let's get started. Hey, friends. Hey, welcome. Welcome back to the show. It's Nikaela here. And today in the guest chair, I have Tiffany Ilyce. Now, if you've been listening and watching for a while, you're no stranger to Tiffany. You know, she's a good friend of the show. Tiffany is a New York Times bestselling author of Get Good With Money and one of the most trusted voices in personal finance. She's helped millions of women transform their financial lives. But what makes her message hit is her story. From losing her job during a recession to rebuilding from over 300,000 in debt to growing a multi-million dollar business, Tiffany has lived every lesson she teaches. And today we're catching her in a new season, one shaped by the hard years. In this episode, she opens up about burnout, alignment, and what it really looks like to step back from being the face of your brand. We talk about how she's evolving her business model, why she's leaning into contracts over courses, and what it means to stay grounded with money as your life expands. This conversation reflects the heart of this episode. This one is honest, reflective, and right on time. So let's get into it. All right, Tiffany, you're looking so vibrant. Welcome, welcome back into the guest chair. Thank you for having me. I'm so excited to be here. I'm always excited to have you. How are you feeling today? How's your heart space? I just feel like, you know, I just have to check in. No, I feel really good. That wasn't the case about maybe like a month or so ago. I was feeling really overwhelmed, stressed, burnt out. And at first I was like, no, I think I'm fine. And then because my blood pressure spikes when I'm stressed. So I was looking like, why did my blood pressure say that? Like I had gone to the doctor for like my annual. And she was like, girl, you all right? I said, oh, I think because I just ran up these steps. She said, hmm. And I had just brought myself the Oura Ring. And I didn't really check it. Okay. And I looked. The Oura Ring said, stressed. I said, no, I don't believe it. Can you tell me one of those? Yes. Literally, I was like, wait a minute. Because it's like, it's a little bit. Stressed. There's engaged. There's relaxed and restored. So usually when you're sleeping, it'll show you it restored. That thing, morning, noon, and night. I said, even in sleep? Stressed. What? And then my back went out, which I was like, I didn't lift anything heavy. And I was really was like, yeah, whatever. And then as I was reading more about it, I was like, no, that's another indicator of stress. I'm talking about like bent over. I cannot walk. I'm 90 years old. What? And I said, girl, so what's next? You know, it's funny. I was listening to you. You had an update episode on your podcast. That's the day my back went out. Yes. And I heard you. I was like, are you okay? No, I was not okay. Mandy was like, why did you come? And that's exactly why I was stressed because I show up even when it's okay not to. That's what I was doing. And Mandy was like, it's not like Mandy and I have been friends for over 10 years. That's my sister. I love her. And I could have easily said, Mandy, girl, I'm not feeling so great. My back went out, whatever. But no, I drove all the way there, like leaped over my thing. I couldn't even walk up the stairs. She was like, why did you come up? I didn't want to disappoint you. She's like, are you crazy, girl? It's not that serious. And so I told myself something has to change because all these indicators add up to you having a heart attack or stroke. Like, girl, what will it take? And so I went to Arizona. I went to Sedona, which is so beautiful and really peaceful. And while I was in Sedona, I drove to Antelope Canyon, which if you've ever seen, it's like these like curved red rocks. Yeah. Like in a cave. It's really beautiful. It's gorgeous. And then another day I went to the Grand Canyon because I just wanted to be enveloped by all things nature and beautiful. Plus, it's very calming. And I had like a sit-down talk with God. I was like, I'm overwhelmed. He's like, I know, girl. Sit down somewhere, essentially. And I was afraid to say the thing, which was I don't want to. I thought I was going to say I didn't want to do Budget Nista anymore. But what I was really realizing when I actually said it, it was I don't want to do it anymore the way I've been doing it. Yes. And so I thought like if I said it, it meant I was closing the business down. And I thought about my staff and the people I'm serving. So I didn't want to say anything. So finally, my therapist was like, just say it. I was like, I don't want to do much anymore. And I was like, wait, does that ring true? Then I realized I said, no, actually, I don't want to do it the way I've been doing it. And so I'm like, okay. And so she was the first person I told. Well, actually, Dom Tisi was the first person I told. And my back eased up. And then I told my therapist, and my back eased up more. That's when I said, okay. And then I told my team. There's a correlation here. Yes, of releasing this. Because what I realized for the last, I want to say, probably six, maybe probably seven years or so, I have been disjointed. There's inside Tiffany of what she wants and there's outside Tiffany that does the things she should. Like, very much what I should do. Do you think you're supposed to show up? Do you think that plays into it? Of course. It's like, I'm a good girl. Get your grades, go to school. You know, I'm a first generation, you know, immigrant born parent, you know, like, so you show up. I'm like, you know, I don't drink. I don't smoke. You know, like I followed, I've towed the line my whole life. And so I'm very much good at showing up the way I perceive the world wants me to show up and ignoring what I want. And there have been times when I push back into what I want anyway, But for the most part, I tend to sometimes like do what I think other people want. And I got so disjointed that the outside Tiffany and the inside Tiffany were so far apart. It was taking my back out, spiking my blood pressure, making me stress. And finally, I was like, OK, what do you want, Tiffany? And I'm not fully sure what's on the other side. But I know that I want to be less face forward of budget nista. So I told my team, and within two months, we started to get more contracts that don't require me. Q1 of this year, we're up 74% from last year. And meanwhile, we had been declining, like slowly but surely. But look what happens with misalignment. It affects everything. I'm thinking I'm trying to save it. And meanwhile, we're declining because I'm out of alignment. And the moment I say, let's get back in alignment, we're back up. And things start coming together. Yeah. And, you know, I want to touch on something you said, too, because I wonder if you also experience this where when you are operating in caring what other people think and what you think they want from you, it's hard, right? Because, OK, maybe 50 percent of you, maybe even 80 percent of you knows what they want. But a lot of times there's a part of you that maybe they don't even want that. Or they'd be fine with something different. So now it's like extra work because you're just telling yourself stuff. You're guessing. Girl. Ultimately. When I told the team, they were like, yeah, we know you're stressed. I was like, wait, what? Nobody was shocked. Everybody was actually like, I was waiting. I was wondering why she was lasting so long. I'm like, wait, what do you mean? Nobody. I mean, literally. And I said, it was like Mandy when I came to take Brown Ambition and I wasn't feeling well. She was like, why would you come? You could have just called me. She said, Tiffany, people cancel all the time. I'm like, yes, but you're my friend. She said, exactly, which is why I would have understood. So most of it was self-induced. Literally, there's nobody in my life that held me to the standard that I was holding myself to. Nobody was doing that. It was literally all me. And so once I came back from Arizona, I stayed for about a week, just me, myself, and I. I said, okay, I'm going to rearrange. And that's when I told the team. I have a COO that I had hired last year. He's amazing. The best. we talked through it and started to map out what it might look like. I'm actually flying the team out at the end of May to where we are. Because we have our annual fun trip, but this is like, we're going to map out because I've decided that I'm taking a sabbatical in 2027. Okay. Good for you. Yes. So the whole year, which I'm like, eh! I thought you took a sabbatical already. I do. I usually take a month. So I take a month to two months off annually. So I always take November off because that's the month that Jarell, my late husband, passed away. and oftentimes I'll take like a June or July or whatever off. So I always take like one month, one month, you know, once or twice a year, but I've never taken a full year. And so that's like, so we're flying out to map out what needs to be true for that year to happen. And so I'm really excited and the team is excited. They have way more autonomy. And so what you're hearing now, there's a joyfulness because I am in joy because my inside Tiffany, my outside Tiffany are as close as they've been in such a long time. where it's like, and you did something so brave to you acknowledged it. A lot of us aren't even acknowledging what's causing us burnout. So we can't even address or solve for it because we feel like it's, there's no solving for it. It just has to be this way. I'm the face of my business. Like, what am I going to do? You know? Yes. Cause the thing I had to learn. So, so my COO, I'm really blessed because he was my business coach for years before he became my COO. And I told the best. I'm like, he said, do you know what burnout really is, Tiffany? I said, I'm just working too hard. He said, no. He said, remember when you were promoting? So when Gekko with Money, so my book, I have this New York Times bestseller. Many of y'all know almost 400,000 copies sold. It came out in 2021. Right. And so eight weeks on the list on the New York Times bestsellers list. And so I remember when that book came out, the level of work I was putting in, but it was energizing because I said, oh, this book is going to make the list. And so I was doing, I must have done 50 or 60 interviews. And like, I mean, I was meeting with the team regularly. It was, but it was exciting. And so the best said hard work doesn't lead to burnout work. That's not aligned with what you really want is what makes the burnout because I'm burnt. I was burnt out from like the 10, 15 interviews, my, with the workbook version. Now, not the workbook version. Now that the software is out, the paperback. So like my publicist is like, okay, here are these 10 interviews. I was like, no. I was like, but meanwhile, for the hardcover, I did like 70. It's because it wasn't aligned with where I was now. And so that's the burnout. The burnout is misalignment, not the hard work. Because I can work hard in something that I really enjoy and it doesn't wear me out. And so, because that's that inside outside, right? The inside says, oh, I really want to do it. And the outside does it. If the inside says, I don't want to do this and the outside does it anyway, that's when you're misaligned. Yeah. And you know what I have been experiencing? I don't necessarily want to do it. See, I can't even say the words, right? I don't want to do it. But I'm like, but I can do it. You know, other people have worse things. Like, I can do this. Like, I don't have to do X, Y, Z. I get to do this for a job. So I get into that space of like, you know, the internet tells me to be grateful. So it's all these conflicting messages. Like, wait, I should be grateful. like and then and you have to acknowledge gratefulness is not the same thing knowledge yes you can and also there's this book that i'm reading now that my friend brand is she has a company called h of h of r harlem fashion yes brand we love brand of the show yes yes so right so brand is like you need to read this book it's called the big leap and you need to read this book right yes it's called the big leap and what it talks about is how do you go from this like good life to this extraordinary life. And it requires this leap. And one of the leaps is to go from your zone of excellence, which is the thing you're good at. You know, people like expect it of you. You probably made your money. You know, you maybe have a business in it and you're good at it. So that's why you get stuck there versus your zone of genius, the thing that you are like the shining star in. And so the budget needs to, and the way I've been navigating, That's my zone of excellence, which is like, I'm excellent at the budget needs and things I'm doing, but there's a genius level that I don't get to because I'm spending time in excellence. And it sounds crazy because it's like, yeah, but excellence works. And that's the trap because your zone of excellence is actually working, but it feels misaligned because there's something, there's a higher thing you're being called to. So you have to let go of good to get to great. And that's where I am right now where I'm finally saying, okay, what parts of the budget needs to am I good at? but I need to release it to the other people on the team so I can do the parts of my life and my business that I'm really, really great at. That's my genius level. And I'm slowly figuring out what that is. I suspect I know, but I won't fully know until I start to actually do practice it, you know? And so I'm excited about it. And what do you think it will look like when you take a step back from that CEO face of the business always there or popping in? what can that look like when you have established a brand that is so much centered in you, your persona? Well, I feel like even before I had language for it, I had been planning for this. So that's why I got a COO. Because before I was making every single solitary decision and now 70% of them, him. We're like, I mean, obviously he and I talk, we have a standing conversation every Thursday, but we talk regularly because I'm like, the best, what do you think about this? Or voice note back and forth. So one, it looks like leadership from not this heavy decision making, because I've handed over a lot of that decision making. I've been doing that for years to the team. And they're even now, even more so now where I'm like, actually, that's your project. What do you think we should do? So I've been slowly, but surely handing that over, you know, and taking myself off product projects, not coming to, I'm like, I'm not going to do the marketing meeting. Y'all got it. You know, they're like, it'll be, you know, it'd be weird at first. They're like, oh, we messed up this. Oh, we'll be okay. And now they're like, okay, I'm rocking and rolling, right? So it looks like that. And then too, it looks like contracts. So we've been slowly practicing. So we're like small business owned, certified, you know, black owned women, but like all the certifications. And slowly we went from, we have a lot of B2C. So we have our online school, our Geek With Money Club, formerly the Liverture Academy, which is our main money driver, right? And then, but the problem with the academy or the club was like, in order to like all of our ads were like, I had to do the webinars and things like that. I don't want to do that. So we still have the club and it's doing great, but it used to be 70, 80% of the business now to 50. The other 50s now are these contracts where organizations say, we would love your tools and resources here. And so we now train people to be the budget needs to at that school, at that organization, at that. And so we started practicing that two years ago with the Board of Education in New York. So they bring budget needs to principals. Yes. And the curriculum and everything. And then we train the trainer. And by we, not me. Yeah. And is there a model you use? Because this is, I love this because you're further ahead. I'm not there yet. I'm at the point where I'm still solidifying the principles, for example, right? So that one day I can exit the face, not like exit, acquire, but like take a step back and people can run it for me. And what I just thought about is like when you have a fast food franchise, right? That's the first thing that came to mind, right? everyone knows what to expect. You have an expectation in your head when you go to certain chains, right? And whoever invented that chain and made it, they're not sitting there at every restaurant like, this is how you run it. But they have the playbook and now it can be set up in a different state, in a different city all over because like this is the foundational principle. So is that kind of what you have in mind? So a mix, right? Because someone who used to be a teacher for 10 years, one of the mistakes I think that a failure in education, if I'm being honest, is when they script teachers too much. Because teaching is literally an art. So if I'm in Louisiana the way I talk to the babies is different than if I in San Francisco Louisiana might be like baby didn I tell you behind the sit down somewhere Because you know you doing too much But in San Francisco I might be like Jonathan listening eyes folding hands You see what I mean? You have to give teachers because it's like this is a different community. And so what we give them is the framework of these 10 simple steps right from get go with money. These 10 steps that we're trying to get people to master. So that part is like we want your credit score to be a certain level. we want for you to be able to manage your debt and budget and save and all these things so that framework is there but as far as how you deliver it no it's because mcdonald's is different i do want the same burger but even mcdonald's honestly has learned they had to shift different in different countries if you go to thailand it's not the same they serve a different food because you know what i mean because they realize oh it's a different taste and so even mcdonald's had so that's the thing that i recognize that just because as a teacher they would try to give us a script. I'm like, these babies here in Newark, who wrote the script? Hello, class. My name is, I'm like, all right, class. Like when we used to do our ABCs, I had an African drum. We'd be like, A, B, C, and people just, ooh, pop, lock, and a drop in it. And I'm like, they know their number, shapes, colors, right? And so that's the thing is that like, that's what makes us so special. I had a teacher say, you know, this organization, this, they had like a curriculum, this curriculum fulfills the mandate. Tiffany, what you bring fulfills the heart. And so because we come in and I'm like, so I'll give you an example. I met the superintendent from Brooklyn and Brooklyn is heavily West Indian, as you know, very much like first and now second generation students. And so there was, there's a bank that is trying to open up 529s for the kids, which is as you know, for 529s, this is a, essentially a savings account for education for children. And so you can start it as soon as they're born. Literally grandma, everybody can contribute to a 529. You can, there's tax advantages from contributing. So you can contribute, lower your taxes now, but the money, if it's used for education can be withdrawn tax-free as well. So it's this great program. And the bank says, hey, we're going to open up this 529 and we're going to put money in it for the kids. But if you know parents, because my parents stray from Nigeria. You want my social security? You see my social security number. Are you crazy? And so the banks are like, oh my God, you don't love your kid? You know, like, hello, it's good for your kid. It's like, I'm sorry. Were you black in America? For all these things, child, they were injecting people with syphilis to test to see what it did to people. OK, not too long ago, some banks still redlining, meaning putting people in neighborhoods and not letting black folks have access to neighborhoods that were better. Child, they were just just a few years ago. They undervalued my house. You know, you know, and so like they still do that. That's the wealth gap because of my house is undervalued by 60,000. Multiply that times 100,000 homeowner, black homeowners. And then you see why the neighborhood is undervalued until other people moved in. Because Brooklyn is poor when Black folks live there, but not when everybody else moves in. Oh, okay, got it. So that feeling of like, why should I give you my information is valid. And so I get to come in and say, hey, girl, here's how 529 works. This is what it means. Yes. Now, I get it because I wouldn't trust on my social either. But if it was me, what I would do is sign the baby up, give the social, freeze their social security number after that. Because after Jarrell passed away, remember my financial advisor was like, sometimes people read their obituary of Tiffany and try to open up credit cards. Go ahead and freeze his social. So you can freeze it and then unfreeze it whenever you need access. It's free right online. Now you see? Now apparently it's like, okay, bet, bet. That's the difference. Culturally aligned. You know what I mean? Speaking to the actual concerns. And so that's the kind of, that is the kind of thing. Principles. Yes. So we get to teach, I guess, here are the basic financial principles. But then I say, teacher, what does the person we're training, you live in this neighborhood. What does your person need? What does this community need? And you know that. So infuse that when you're teaching this financial information. And so that's what we're seeing. And it's like to great success where people are like, you know, because this is why back in the day, in order to be a teacher in the district, you had to live there. Because they needed that alignment. Yeah, it used to be a police officer. Yeah. So you could walk there. Hey, Ms. Jenkins. It's like, yeah, I see your mama. You know he was acting up in school, right? You know? So it was that. It used to be literally, that was like you had to live in that neighborhood. And so. Yeah, cultural competence. Yes. Cultural competency. Yes. It's so needed. I'm going to write that down, girl. I'm going to write that down. That was good. Yay. Because, you know, as I'm pitching, because we've been pitching to different schools. Let me write that down. We bring a cultural competency. Exactly. Exactly. And you have always been so transparent about your processes, your numbers. And you mentioned this in the beginning about how things were dipping and now they're up 70%. What does the business landscape look like for you headed into 2026 and projecting for 2027? So I'm being honest, it's only by God's grace and the fact that I'm the budgetista that we get to still be here. So many people in our space with online schools and stuff are out of business. Most of my friends in this space are, have moved on to either a different business model or completely shut down if I'm being candid. So at our peak, we were making $10 million. We made $10 million peak in COVID when everybody was making coin, but I knew that it wasn't realistic. Cause I want to say the year before that COVID spike, maybe we were making five or six. So it was, I knew it was, it was an unrealistic spike, happy for it. But I said, we're not gonna, you know, like my dad would say, you cut your coat according to your size. And we were a bigger size, but I said, let's not get bigger let's be mindful let's be demure and so the next year after covid eight million and then seven and then six and then i said ah but we still were always profitable because i'm really good at being like let's cut that back let's cut this back and we didn't let go of people it was just trim trim trim trim i let go of people after jerelle passed away because we had 30 people on staff god only knows why um but i didn't let go of people and i was just like this is a mix And a lot of them weren't doing any work and taking advantage. And so it was going down, down, down. So this is the first year since COVID that we're on an upswing. And I realized I was like, because, well, one, after COVID and then after, because right after COVID, like, you know, COVID was like 2001, 1920. And then 21, Jarrell passed away. So I just was like, I don't care. And so we were just kind of like declining slowly, keeping ourselves afloat just because we kept our overhead low. Um, and then I was like, let me say this thing because we're doing such good work. And, um, I couldn't, at first I couldn't figure out what to do because I didn't have the same zest for, for the type of work that I was doing to keep us alive that I did when Jarell was here. I just couldn't, I just couldn't get myself. I was like, I don't want to do, I don't want to do that anymore. So I just couldn't. I was like, well, maybe we're just going to close. I don't know. I just don't, I can't do it all the time anymore. I can't be the everything. um and so finally when i realized like you know two years ago we had our first like contract and it was pretty lucrative i said i wonder if contracts are the way and slowly contracts for so we educating so a different one so like we um we did our contract with the board of education in newark we have a summer program um that we teach their high schools their five high schools um contract with the united way to teach adults and just more recently like there'll be a probably announced by the time this goes out, I'm contracting with the Department of Education in New York City to teach teachers money mindset because teachers are bringing their financial bias into their financial education. And sometimes it's helpful and sometimes it's not. And so basically almost like train the trainer, like contracts, but also parents too. So not so much students as much. We're doing some students, but my real specialty, even though I started off as a school teacher is getting adults to where they need to be. So even now, as I'm sharing, we are still, I am still perfecting what is the lane. So it's like, okay, we did some schools. Okay, that was cool. Okay, what about parents? Okay, what about teaching? So I'm, in another year, I'll be like, okay, girl, we are, this is like, our lane is this particular. So we are still, so right now we're taste testing all different types of contracts to see where we excel. Well, and then in a year. Yes. That's part of the process. Yes. So the online stuff for like B2C, business to consumer, it's still here. People still sign up for our courses and things like that. This other side, and we perfected that. This other side is we're currently learning. So I'm excited to see where it shakes out. But what I'm seeing is that it makes sense because the contracts don't need me other than the initial, which I think is my zone of genius. is if you put me in a room, I leave you in a contract. Because people are like, hey girl, I'm a hey girl. And then we keep, you know, you're like, you know, I'm vice president for such and such. I'm like, girl, you are? They're like, yeah girl. I'm like, well, you know, we've been trying to do this thing. Call me on Wednesday. Literally, that's how I go. I just locked in a contract, literally sitting next to a lady and she was just like, girl, your book helped me with this. So we were keep King. And then she was like, oh, I'm like, Francis YZ. And I was like, oh, that's cool. You know, you know what y'all need though. Y'all need to be doing this. She was like, you can do that? I said, I think so. She's like, you know what? I love that because the B to C, the C's working the B's, okay? Yeah, and that's exactly what people don't understand. The B to C's close to B's. Yes, the C's working the B's. And that's, and it's almost always for me, I'm getting a contract as a result of typically a black woman and almost always a woman of color that was a budget Nista dream catcher or whatever, in some way it got the book, took a class that loved the social and then comes and says, Tiffany, it's been 15, 16, 17 years of me watching you. And so we trust you. What else you got? And so what you'll see now is one of the things I told the team is so like that we're up 74%, not because the B2C is up, but because the B2B is up. I was looking at the numbers. I said, oh my gosh. Okay. So it's working. Even if we haven't even like, you know, and we're not even getting huge. We have one really big contract. that's about half a million dollars. But most of the contracts are 20, 30, 40. So not relatively speaking, because I know it sounds like a lot of money, but not, you know, because it's like, what, that's a lot of money. Not for us who sometimes can make a million dollars in a month. Not really, you know, but we are learning. So I'm like, let's get that 30,000 and 10 and then 15 and to see like what works best. And then we'll really get to hone in. So it's an exciting time because the work is working and now we're just fine tuning. I like that you shared that because a part of entrepreneurship, y'all, it's you're always in testing mode. You might launch and you might have a contract with someone and you're going to deliver because you have the knowledge, but the shape of that, how you deliver that knowledge is always kind of being tested and fine tuned. And it's okay for us to speak out loud about that. It doesn't diminish the knowledge you have. But things shift in society. AI has changed a bunch. So the delivery mechanisms are always evolving. How do you deal with things like the Board of Ed where money is always a thing, right? They want to nickel and dime you like, we don't have money. We don't this, blah, blah, blah. But then they have money for very random things. Sometimes you learn, you don't. Right? So this is why the conversations in the seats are so important or going to the conference, whatever, because I've learned so much. I said, oh, because at first my thought was, okay, we're going to do financial education for kids. Sounds great. But as I talk to more and more people, like I went to this ed tech conference, education technology conference, and there was so many superintendents there. And we just a key key in like the black girl ones, you know, like, hey, girl, hey, girl. We're like, oh, my God, how are things going? She's like, oh, my God. I'm like, so what are you doing for financial education for your school? They're like, girl, this institution, there are so many now financial education tools. And I'm like, really? Was it expensive? It's free. I said, I'm saying, what? So this big bank, this big institution, all of them are now creating financial education tools for the school systems for free. So I said, good to know. I had not developed mine yet. We have like a loose one that we do. But I had not fully, I was about to put a lot of money in. I said, look at God, because I said, okay. So anybody, if I'm being honest, anybody who's in the business of trying to develop a financial education platform for kids, sorry. you late because one you can't compete with this billion dollar business and there's several of them and I'm not really sure the game they're playing like doing it for free I suspect they're trying to get their brand in front of students when they're young so when they get older they'll use them I guess but I can't compete with free I can't scale too no no exactly so I said yeah good to know because imagine that that would have been a rabbit hole I would have went down now there are still and then you're trying to sell it and they're like actually we can get it for free. Exactly. From Chase or whoever, you know? So what are some adjacent things that we could do? Because I'm not going to compete with a Chase or Intuit or whatever. So it's like, okay. So there, I learned from those superintendents. You're like, you know, but here's what's missing from it. I'm like, ooh, and I'm not going to tell y'all because some of y'all be like doing exactly what I do. I'm like, don't do that. They be copying. I used to tell all the teams that would look up and be like, no. And nowadays, it's too fast to copy. And the thing is, the thing is, I am smart and I get to connect and network, but there are some of y'all who are better at doing the work, meaning like getting it to market faster than me. And I can acknowledge that. So I ain't telling you what they told me. Go figure it out. But I will say that some of the things I learned, I said, oh, they're like, girl, we need this and we need this and we need this. And those big companies won't do that because it's too nuanced. And I'm like, we can live in the nuance. So not Not only do we not have to compete with the Chase and the Intuit and the Wells Park. We don't have to compete. We can actually be a compliment to them. And I already have the relationship where people are like, oh, my God, I love you so much. I'm like, you know, I have this thing. Oh, we got a thing. I know, but they're missing this. So this actually compliments. This is the shoes to go with the dress that they're bringing. You see? And so that's what's really exciting. And so. You have to think about those. What's missing? Yes. And so also, too, that's but it I think for me, that is my zone of genius. I am really good at people. I'm an excellent connector, meaning like because I actually really care about people. So people end up telling me everything like, yeah, girl, because we just found out that we got three billion dollars for this. And then they said we got to spend on this. I'm like, you don't say, you know, we can do that. Right, right, right. You know what I mean? And what I love is that like, yes. And then what I've learned too is that like, I can say it just like that because especially if it's a sister, I'm like, girl, you know, let's figure out a way for us to create that for you. I don't have to pretend like I have it already. I don't have to lie about it. I don't have to. I'm just like, you know what? Or sometimes I'll say, honestly, I don't do that, but I don't do know somebody who does. Let me make the connection for you. I love how you bring up that strength as well, because I think, too, what makes a lot of conversations intimidating is when you think you have to be someone you're not. Yeah. Is when you convince yourself that if I show up just as me having the conversation, they won't be impressed. I won't get the deal. And it's a reminder that the deal that's meant for you will come from you being able to just talk plainly. Yes. And not having to overthink it. Be someone you're not, you know. I forget that, too, myself. I think that you just are trained. Like, you go into corporate, you go like... Sometimes, yes, you have to bring a different... But here's the thing. I realized that that's my... Growing up, you would always hear people say a lot of deals are made on the golf course. Like men, you know? Like, especially white men. Yeah, they still say it. Yeah, which is true. Remember what? That's why everyone started wearing their little skirts a few years ago. But I'm realizing, like, there is a version of the golf course for sister girls. because they're positions of power too. And so it's like, hey, so I'm going to these events and I get to, you know, I almost always, even if an event, like there's some events where, you know, they're like, we don't have money to pay you to speak. I like that okay Just get me on the stage because I can razzle dazzle on the stage And then when I come off then we could talk shop People oh my God I saw you were so great I like yes girl I know how to connect And then once we connect, oftentimes we've pre-connected because you follow me already or you read my book or whatever. So I don't have to prove to you who I am or what I'm doing. And you know that I care. And then we could really talk shop and be like, honestly, girl, I would really like to get to $2 million a year in funding for the Budgetnista to cover all of our overhead. Here's the things that we're really good at and we're passionate about. I can say that. And they're like, well, we've got this fund that does this, this, and that. Or have you spoke to Shirley? Let me connect you to my home group. For real. I just come back from this conference no less than like 15 different, mostly women of color who are like, girl, let's have the next conversation. That's what I'm genius at. Let's get you in the room. Yes, we want to make money, but everybody also knows that I actually really care. We want to make change too. So you have a track record. Yes. And so that's the part of the budget needs that I want to continue doing. I think one of the things speaking to you in this season, in this moment, is reminding me of is what the hard years teach you, you know, about yourself, about your business. And so what I'm hearing from you about yourself is definitely the acknowledging and how it was hard to even acknowledge. And honestly, put yourself first because you've built a business and now you built a business on your back. So that means you're worried about people, their payment, their salaries, their families. You are taking all that on. And then also it's taught you, OK, what do I enjoy? What parts of this do I want to own and what parts of it do I finally need to delegate for real, for real? You know, and I've also heard you talk about how your whole book, Get Good With Money, right? You got good with money. You you got to a certain place. But the funny thing about money is when you make it and you make new decisions with it, there's still room to make, quote unquote, mistakes. So I've heard you talk about navigating this new season when you're investing in real estate. Right? Where you didn't used to have high overhead where you're like, wait a minute, what just happened? Can you share with us your thoughts on that? How do you stay good with money in new money arenas? I'm not going to lie. There's so many levels. Like I, last year, I bought two units in one week, two new properties. And I was so proud of myself. Then a month later, I started to freak out because the budget needs to, you know, we weren't making as much, which means I don't make as much. And I said, what are we going to do? Why did I do this? I did too much. I bought one unit so my sister can live next to me and another unit. My stepdaughter, Alyssa, lives with me now. She goes to school, college. And I was like, oh, I'll buy this for her for after college. And then all of a sudden my overhead, because the two properties I currently own before that, there was no mortgage. So my overhead was like, okay. Literally, I remember the joke for me was that I can still teach preschool and afford my life. because my car paid off, my house is paid off. I don't have any debt, no student loan debt. I was like, I can see preschool and cover this life. And that was not the case after I bought those two units. And because what I did was, although I didn't get a mortgage, I did something called a pledge asset line when I borrowed against my own assets. So like I have hella money, if I'm being honest. I'm a multimillionaire. And so I'm able to borrow against that. And so I took out the money to borrow against it. So not my money, because my money is in the market largely, but I got to bar against it at a lower interest rate than what's being offered for mortgages. And then essentially I pay myself back, you know, over time. You can even just pay the interest if you want, but I pay myself back over time. And so all of a sudden that was an additional like $2,700 a month, you know? And I was like, wait, what? Which I could afford it, but I wasn't used to, it like doubled, you know, like what I was currently paying because I paid taxes. And then all of a sudden, like more than 2,700, if you think about the taxes and things. Right. Property taxes and things of that nature. And so I freaked out for a while. And even though I'm like, Tiffany, you have millions of dollars, you're not going to go broke. But it was hard. Can we just pause for that? Yes. Tiffany, you have millions of dollars. I mean, you can afford the three. And even with just my regular salary, because the way I work at the budget, if you don't know, I believe in talking about numbers out loud. So for the budget Nista, you have to make what they call a reasonable salary based upon the size of your business. And so my lowest base reasonable salary is $180,000. That's how much the budget Nista pays me come hell or high water, right? And then I get an owner's draw monthly. And so my owner's draw, the most I ever made an owner's draw in a month was, this is during my $10 million year, was almost $500,000 in one month. It was my owner's draw. So sometimes the owner's draw isn't nada, nothing, nunca, because you ain't make no money that month. So I still get my regular pay. And then sometimes, for example, my owner's draw this month was like $21,000. Great. And so I remember when things were good, my owner's draw used to average $30,000 to $60,000. I'm like, okay. So imagine you make your regular pay. You make $50,000 a month extra. So you're like, buy this, get this, whatever you need. And then there were some years where it's like owner's draw was like, go ahead and live off that salary you make. So are you reinvesting the owner's draw though? Like you're putting that in investments. If anybody knows me, I mean, I could afford a Bugatti. I ain't driving one. Like you're not going to see me in like name brand clothes, especially now. Brandon's friend of the show got me into buying black and African designers. And so like, so you're not really, there's nothing wrong with like Gucci, Fendi, whatever. But if I do splurge on something, it's an African designer. So I don't, I'm not someone who, I don't live. I mean, I have a beautiful home. And so I splurged from there. And even my travel, I, because I run my marketing through my Amex card, I get all these points. So a lot of my travel is free. And so my overhead for life is very low. So most of that owner's draw, yes, it was just reinvested. That's why I have millions is because I invested it and it grew and grew and grew and grew. And so I want to say my life, well, up until I bought these properties was under $100,000 a year. It probably still is if I really like do the math. So meaning that's why even the 180 is enough to sustain me, you know, but every level requires, cause I'm, I, I've, I've never had, I don't know anybody. I mean, now I have rich friends, but no one in my family. So I'm just, I'm just walking this place kind of blindly. My father was a CFO and an accountant, but still, you know, he did not grow to this level of wealth. So it is scary. Cause I told my friend about the real estate. My friend has like, like a hundred million dollars worth of real estate. So when I told him I bought these two properties, he was like, Tiffany, get off my line with these baby problems. He's a black man. And I was like, oh, my God. Because one of the properties I bought was $150,000. He said, I'm sorry, what? Girl, you can literally, what was your job three months ago? Girl, exactly. And so he said, you can pay for this. And the thing is, I could pay for it cash, but it didn't make sense to. Because it was like, don't take the money out of the market. Let the market do what it does. So anyway, I just share all that to say that like there is in some ways, sometimes just as much anxiety because there's more to lose for me now. Have you heard this guy? I think his name is Sam Parr or whatever he is. He's part of the My First Million podcast. And he has this network. I think it's a paid thing. I haven't obviously haven't joined it or anything. But basically, it's for multimillionaires to talk, billionaires, because these are the kind of problems that only y'all, you know? I just actually, you know, it might be that because I just actually have a call with them later on today because I just joined a network. I'm saying that thing it's called. Yeah, I just joined a network. I'm going to see what it's called. But I just joined because, to your point, I mean, I can't tell my teacher friends. And then, uh-oh, it's called. What am I supposed to do? Yes, what is it called? It's called Long Angle. Okay, so there must be different ones. It's a network for millionaires, multi-millionaires. I think you have to have at least a $2 million network, I think. And so you get to go in there and say, so what are you guys doing about this? And what about this? And, you know, or just, and so I know it sounds like way and cry me a river. Because I used to make, I understand, I used to make $39,000 a year as a school teacher. So, yeah. And that's what Tiffany, if you haven't read her book, she chronicles her journey from, you know, what she felt like was just like the worst financial mistake ever. and like losing it all and all, like moving back in with her parents. And I think it's very aspirational and inspirational to hear where you are now. And what those conversations tend to bring up is that a lot of people, even when they're very, very wealthy, there is a sense of like, I could lose it all. Like, what if, you know, you think like most people are out there, like they just want a ball out of control, whatever. Maybe if you go from zero to millions, like athletes right away. But if you've never had that concept of truly focusing on your money and seeing and being stressed about it. And then, okay, now you're in your good years. Like you don't just stop worried about money. Because honestly, it's not just, because I'm not really worried about money for myself because, you know, like if I had to, I could rent out the unit. Or thinking about it, I should say. Well, no, I do worry about money. I do, but when I think about the worry, I think about the people I'm supporting and can I continue to do so. That's where the worry comes from. Not Tiffany. I'm like, okay, Tiffany, you know, like this house is paid off, that house is paid off. The other two, although they're not paid off, you could rent them out. But it's like, I send my parents money every month. I look after my nieces and my nephew, my sister, you know what I mean? Like I think about the people who work on my team. I've got like a 13 black women that work for me. So what would they do? So when I think about, so the worry for money for me is not this worry, like, will I be okay? It's, there are people who I want to make sure are also okay. And so that's really what comes up for me is that like, because like, you know, worst case scenario, I could sell the other two units and just have the two that are paid off. And, you know, my taxes are basically like rent and be like, okay, well, we back where we were before, but we have two houses and we fine, you know? And so that's what, so I do worry a lot. Well, no, not as much, but I do worry, but really for what would it do to the people who I care about, who I've pledged to look after if I can no longer, my therapist always says, it's not your responsibility. I'm like, yeah, yeah, whatever, Dr. Green. I know, but still, like, you know, our culture is very community based. Yes. Especially I'm African. So especially like when they say it takes a village to raise a child, you know, they got that from the premise of like the way, you know, African villages are set up. And so I've always been raised that your blessings are not just for you, you know, there to be shared with the community. And I believe that to a certain extent, I'm learning not to over, I'm trying not to overdo it because I used to give everything away to the community because if I'm being honest, I could literally have two, if not three times more my wealth, if I didn't give away as much as I have, you know, because I felt guilty about keeping some, you know, cause I'm like, you have enough. I'm like, yeah, girl, but you also work really hard too. I'm like, yeah, but lots of people work hard. It's like, yes, but so I still struggle with that, but I'll just say that like, yeah. So So this is why. Have you read Sheila Johnson's book? No, but I've heard. No, is it about her autobiography, right? Her autobiography, yes. Of course, she talks about her experiences. I know. I'm like, okay, Bob. But Bob, but I digress. She also, I was really surprised in the book how much she gives away. To the point I was like, well, damn, Sheila. I know. She was like, and then I donated 10 million. And just like every, every, like after she made it, every chapter was like that six million, ten million, like just giving away. Yeah. And so I think that there's something to be said. I do believe that for every blessing, there's excess. But there is one sermon that I remember from like my high school pastor is that's what it was. In every blessing, there's excess. And you're supposed to give from that excess. But I forgot that the excess, meaning you're supposed to enjoy some and then give from the overflow. I was given from the cup. Not the overflow. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so now I'm relearning to enjoy and drink from my cup because there's excess. Tiffany, get from that excess. Not the whole daggone thing. And so, yeah, but honestly- And you're not a bad person to enjoy that. I know, and I do feel guilty. I'm telling you, I'm not going to lie. I do feel guilty. The reason why I say the words, I'm a multimillionaire, is not even for y'all. It's because I need to hear myself say it like, yes, you are. Because I used to always say, I'm a baby millionaire. Back in the day, you would hear me say, I'm a baby. What is a baby millionaire? Do you have a millionaire or not? What is that? nothing girl is diminishing language intentionally so I don't seem like so no one can say oh you're a bad person or you're so greedy and you're so I'm like look I'm not greedy I bought my sister a house and I bought Alyssa a house and I paid off my parents' house and I also donated here and I'm not bad I didn't even keep half the money that I've made not even a quarter of the money I've made I've given it all away and it's like girl who asked for that so no I'm a multi-millionaire and I am generous And I am kind and I do give, but I also am allowed to enjoy the fruits of the labor too. Yes. Oh, thank you for sharing this with us. Like I know some of these conversations you probably only have with your therapist, right? You're really unpacking a lot here. And, you know, like you never even think about this side of things because to be honest, let's go take it back to where we are now. Like a lot of people are overwhelmed for different reasons, right? Inflation, layoffs, and, you know, debt is at historic highs. So what do you tell someone now who's starting on this journey, right? When they feel like they're behind on all the steps inside of Get Good With Money and they're like, I can't even, I pick the book up and then I feel ashamed. Well, one, there is, before we get to the tactical things, you know, we got to work on that mindset. So one, let me tell you that money is a team sport. Do not go it alone. Find your work mom, your bestie, your cousin, your husband, your wife, your dog, somebody that you can check in with regularly, who's working on getting good with money too, and say, let's work on this together. It's like walking with your friend. So when I started to, like I said, let me get back into shape. I started walking with a neighbor, like, girl, come outside, let's go walk. Because it makes it easier when you're on the journey with other people. So one, find somebody to journey, money journey with you. That's going to be really important. Two is that you're going to have to release some of that shame. Financial shame is the worst because it tells you I'm a mistake, not I made a mistake. Oh, yes. You know? And so the best way to release some of that shame is what I just did here. This was like, I had therapy yesterday, so I'm wide open. Right? The best way to release shame is to give voice to it. Say the thing. I always spent, you know, like I was scared about like the two homes that I bought. I was like, I'm releasing it by saying, I don't want to do budget in the same way because giving voice to it takes away the scary. It's like, oh, I said it and I'm still living and breathing. Okay. And so helping find a safe place, your accountability partner or otherwise to release the shame by giving voice to it. That's the second thing. Third mindset shift is I want you to fast forward 10 years from now and ask yourself, what's my ideal life look like? you know and for me I was thinking about it this morning I thought oh you know what I like a slow morning a morning that doesn't start with work until earliest 10 o'clock so I like to start with a walk and you know like I I stretch and maybe I talk to one of my friends or my mom or my dad or my sisters you know um maybe I journal a little bit maybe I read a book maybe I listen to music so I like cleaning so like you know I get my swiffer I get to cleaning and listen to music So whatever I do, it's peaceful for me. And so I said what my ideal day in life would look like, slow mornings. And then I actually enjoy speaking, like speaking engagements. I'm like, so maybe, you know, once a month I have a speaking engagement that really energizes me. I get excited, you know, also travel. My ideal life looks like maybe at least three or four international trips a year to specifically visit friends not just places So you see like so I want you to zoom out I call it the trees versus the forest So in the forest we zooming out What does the ideal life look like And then zoom in what needs to be true now to get there And so like that where I would start that if I was in preschool teacher, Tiffany, who was about $300,000 in debt, because I had lost my house to foreclosure, $35,000 in credit card debt due to a scam and $52,000 in student loan debt. So just about $300,000 in debt. That preschool teacher, Tiffany, I would be like, you know, that's what I would tell her is that like, and that's what she did. She didn't go it alone. She's like, my best friend, Linda, and I worked together. Like, girl, she's not a financial expert. It was just a safe space. Then I told her what was happening. I released some of that shame because Linda was like, girl, that's it. We all broke. And we laughed at that. I remember laughing at that from the book. A lot of times people are going to be like, girl, we all got that. Girl, I was just talking to Linda this morning. We was key-keying over foolishness. Like, remember what? So I released that shame. And then this morning I was doing like what I just told y'all. I was thinking to myself, in 10 years, how do you want your life to go? Zooming out. So I was like, ooh, I want the freedom. I don't want to have to go to meetings. Well, what needs to be true now? Then you need the right team in place. You need to, you see? And so that's where I would start. because it's going to be hard to move now until you understand what you're moving toward. So then when you zoom back in, then I can say, okay, then I need to, this debt is weighing heavily. I don't need to be debt free, but I need to at least get this debt in a good place. Well, how do you get debt in a good place? In the book, Get Good With Money, I show you how to consolidate. But in order to consolidate, you have to have a solid credit score. So now let's work on your credit. Those tactical things, I think, are a very powerful exercise because I think isolation and feeling alone like you're the only one going through something is one of the hardest parts of any hard year until you, you know, put voice to it, like you said, reach out to people. And I'd just also like to add, reach out to somebody and have a positive forward-thinking relationship around it because sometimes you reach out to somebody and then y'all just sit around like complaining down in the dumps together. and you're not going to come out of it that way, right? Yeah. So my therapist would say, instead of running from, leaning toward. So that's why I tell people to do the exercise of in 10 years. Oh, in 10 years, I want to be on vacation. That's the moving toward versus I want to be debt free. Child, no, we talking, this is your magic wand. Wait, don't you around? Anything. Anything. How are you going to curtail yourself in your own dreams? I want you to be like a four-year-old. I want to go to the moon, to Mars. One time I had taken my niece and nephew to like every month I try to swap out with them to do like an Amelia Day or Roman Day. Really it's for Roman because Amelia has such a strong personality. Every time I would take them out, she would decide everything. And I said, girl, I get it though because I was being bossy. So I'm trying, you know, so I didn't want to unbossy her because I'm like, you're going to need it. So I was like, okay. So I said, you know what? It's Roman Day. Roman, what do you want to do? I don't know. I'm like, no, don't look at her. Look at me. What do you want to do? Right? So I remember one time, like Amelia was like, she made her list. She's like, I want to go to the zoo. They get to pick a thing to do, like an activity. And then like where they want to eat. I want to go to the zoo. I want to have pizza, whatever. I said, okay. I said, what else? And she said, and then I want to go to Mars. I said, I'm sorry, what? Is that a restaurant? She's like, no, Mars. Like in space. I was like, but you need to be delusional like that. I mean, what the heck? She said, what do you want to do? I love that she thinks, oh, oh, when Auntie Tiffany comes, she's going to take me to Mars. She calls me the rich one. She tells Roman, ask the rich auntie for your Nintendo Switch. I said, don't do that, Mimi. But I love that. Be the Lulu like Mimi. I want to go to Mars. If I'm telling you to wave your magic wand, why are you saying, I just was going to be dead free? The genie is here. That's what you're going to say when you have the lamp? The genie is here. No. I want a million dollars. Yes. I want a yacht. I want to be on a private island. I don't care what it is. Just say the things, you know, because it gets you excited to do the work. Yeah. So because when you're working on your credit, it's not just so I can have a high credit score. It's because I'm about to be in Hawaii. You see? You want it to tie it. So I love that you said that. Yes, it's a leaning toward. And so inside of get good money, like it's more affordable now because it's in paperback. But I tell people, even if you can't afford it, girl, go to the daggone library. They hate when I say that. I know. I'm like, whatever, girl. We need help and serve. You can go to the library. But oftentimes people will get it and they want to write in it. So they end up getting like a book book. But now it's way more affordable. And I just love having it. I love Black women books, like, all throughout my space. So it's like a souvenir, too. Because how many books do you have with a bold Black woman on the cover just looking, smiling bright? I just love it. I just love the color, everything. So get it as a souvenir as well. Read it, but, you know. Yes, yes. And then use it as a tool to help guide your conversations with your accountability partner. And then you also had a workbook, right? Because I feel like I have a workbook. Okay, I have a workbook. Made Whole is the workbook version. Made Whole, yes. I have it all, girl. Think about Get Go With Money as like your textbook and Made Whole as the workbook. If people were asking me like, what should I start with? If you're starting from scratch, you're like, I don't know nothing. I say Get Go With Money. If you got a little something and you just want to get to the get to, then the workbook Made Whole is a great place to start. But yeah, work through it with your accountability partner. Tell yourself you guys are going to do a chapter a month. Yes. Because there's homework, there's things to do. Oh, yes, there are. Speaking of made whole, the last thing I want to touch on before lightning round, right? I've heard you talk about the difference between financial freedom and financial wholeness and how, especially living through grief, what the experience has taught you about the difference. So can you explain a little bit, what is the difference to you in your words and like, what should we strive for? So for me, financial freedom feels like I'm going to have a lump sum of money and I won't have to work one day, which sounds great. But truthfully, most people are not going to get there, if I'm being honest. That's why you never see me preach, I'm going to make you a millionaire. I'm not saying it's not possible, but I do know that it's not as likely for me to do that for you. So one thing I learned from being a teacher is you teach to the 80%. 20% of students are gifted. 20% of students are challenged. 80% can do the work. And financial wholeness is the 80%. It's these 10 core things that nearly everyone, 80% can master so you can live a financially healthy life. So that is budgeting, savings, debt, credit, income. That's the foundational five. Then investing for both retirement and wealth. Then there's insurance. There is your financial team. there's your net worth and estate planning. That's the next five. And so if you can master those five, those 10, which this is what I walk you through step-by-step and get it with money. Every chapter is one of these. You can work with it with your accountability partner. I give you all the tools and resources that you need to get those things done. If you can work through them and master those things, you can be financially whole, which means financially healthy. So financial freedom, pile of money, financial wholeness, health, where you're going to be all right. You're going to be more than all right. And then from there, you can build that wealth, but that's that foundation. And so that's what I want for everyone is financial wholeness. And what's so lovely about financial wholeness is that, for example, estate planning for a 20 year old, when I was like 28 was my mother was my beneficiary on my bank account. That's estate planning when you're 20. Estate planning, me 46, is I have trust and a will and life insurance policies that lead to the trust and the will. So what I love is that it meets you where you are, you know, financial wholeness. It's not like, well, when I get to be, financial freedom typically is like you're older. Like when I get to be 40 or 50 or 60, no, no, financial wholeness can happen at 21. Then you are that reevaluate when you're 30, like, oh, you know, maybe I do need a life insurance policy because I have a kid now. or like investing looks different at 30. So financial wholeness gets to grow with you just like your financial health. So that's what it is. And that's why I really love this book because it will meet the reader where they are and walk them through to where they want to be in a healthy, stable way. I love that. And just to bring it all together to what you talked about with navigating different levels of wealth and income when you're financially whole, you're prepared to deal with that. Even if you still have the thoughts, but you can go back and say, hey, I know how to budget. I know how to save. I know how to invest. I know I have my insurance. I got my estate. But all of these things remind you, we're okay. We know how to do this. Because of financial wholeness, like I said, if the budget needs to collapse right now, certainly before I bought the two properties, I could go back to teaching preschool and still manage my life the same. That's wholeness. That without the pile of money, I could get a regular a day-to-day job, making $70,000, $80,000, $60,000, and still manage my life. And so that's what I love about financial wholeness. It will see you through the ups down, side to side. Yeah. And speaking of that, any final parting words for those who this is still a hard year for them? They are still living through the hard years. What's your parting advice for them? My parting advice is trouble don't last all times, you know, always. It just doesn't. and that just like good times don't last forever and that life is very much cyclical and that in this space and time, like, you know, I'm five years a widow now. Like, well, in November, it'll be five years, which is so crazy because I feel like it just happened. I know, right? Wow. And at that time, I said, I won't be able to continue. I can't continue on. And here I am living and I found joy. and so I would say that even in the midst of the darkness there is some light and if you will mine for joy it's there to be found like if you'll dig for it sometimes it's deeper than other times but it'll be found and the number one thing that I took away from like loss, financial loss the loss of my husband you know like the hard times for me is that there are two questions I get to ask myself Is this true? Oftentimes, sometimes we say like, you know, like I'm going to be broke. Is it true? Like, like for me, I was like, girl, is it true? You got millions. Right. I don't think this is going to be my life forever. Is that true? Yes. Do you really think it's true? And sometimes it is true. My credit score is terrible. That's true. And then the second question you follow up with is, is it the only truth available? My credit score is a 430. Is that the only truth available? I could raise it because I'm reading Giga with Money. Oh, okay. There's all the truth out here. You know, my debt is drowning me. Me, $300,000. Is that the only truth available? If I work slowly toward it, I can start paying off at least this credit card debt. You know, I lost my job. That's true. Is that the only truth available? Well, you know, I'm going to be on unemployment for the next six months. I'm going to really try hard to find a role in a different company. Or maybe I'll launch that business I've been wanting to launch. Do you see what I mean? And so if you're in the worst of it, mind for joy, be defiant in looking for joy and then asking yourself, is this true? And if it is true, is it the only truth available? That means what other things are also true because there's always something better that's true. So, yeah. I don't think I've ever heard that. Thank you for that. That has blessed someone. I know that has blessed someone. And that, you know, coming off of, I had a conversation with my guest, Monique Shields, and, you know, she talked about how a lot of times when we look at the past or the mistakes we made, we're like, we did this, I did this, I overspent. But then we forget to tell ourselves the whole picture. What else is true? What else happened? Oh, you were going through grief? Yes. And so you overspent to cope? Or you were doing like you have to tell yourself the whole picture and what other truths are available. Yes. Yes. So this is the theme of this season, y'all. And thank you for pouring into others. And the last I just saw something recently that said, like, there are micro moments of grief. Sorry, there are micro moments of joy amidst macro moments of grief. So that just reminded me of what you shared as well. And just so you know, one of the things I'm going to be working on during my hiatus or my sabbatical is I'm going to write a book called The Gifts of Grief. So many gifts that I've received through this grieving period, and I want to share those with other people so they can find that there are other truths available. So that's essentially what I hope the book helps for people who are grieving. Because you never really stop. That is it true, yes, you lost your person or your job or your mom or your dad, whatever that looks like. But it's not the only truth available. So I'm hoping that that new book, it has nothing to do with personal finance, will help you to see that. Oh, but it does. Oh, but it does, doesn't it? Yeah, in some ways, yes. In some ways, yeah. Yeah, that there are other truths available. I'm looking forward to that. And that'll be what your fifth time in the guest chair. I'm ready for it. Right. Can I tell people where they can get geeky with money if they'd like to? Yes. Tell us, tell us, tell us. So I'm the budget niece on all the platforms. You can find me on LinkedIn, on YouTube, TikTok, Instagram. I'm still on Facebook. We everywhere. And if you're wanting get good with money, literally that's the website. Getgoodwithmoney.com. You can buy the hardcover, the paperback, audio version. ebook. It's available to you and you're not out here by yourself. So don't navigate the world like you are. All right. We're going to squeeze in a quick lightning round. Okay, y'all. Okay, here we go. Number one, what is a recent resource that has really been helping you in business that you can share with the Side Hustle Pro audience? This book, The Big Leap. And then who is a Black of an entrepreneur, non-celebrity if possible, that you would want to switch places with these days to see how their day is and really learn from? Maybe Brandice Daniels of Harlem Fashbrook. She's doing the damn thing. And I really admire that. Or maybe her or she's a friend of mine too. Brandice is a friend, but also Morgan DeBond of AfroTex. Number three, what's a non-negotiable part of your day these days? Time with the people that I love. I get at least a phone call with at least one person, typically multiple. Okay. Number four, what is a personal Tiffany trait that has helped you significantly in business? I am delusionally optimistic. I believe the best in everybody until you play me. And even then I'm like, you sure? You had a bad day? Yeah, exactly. And then finally, what is your parting advice for fellow women entrepreneurs who want to be their own boss, keep running their own business, but are tired of the unstable paycheck. That do not do it alone. Ask questions, lean into the people around you. That money, business, raising a family, these are all team sports. And there you have it, y'all. Y'all, Tiffany, it's always a joy to have you in the guest chair. Thank you for sharing and showing up even in hard seasons for us and for your audience. But take some time for yourself now. Get off the grid. Go back to Arizona. We will be busy reading Good With Money, the paperback. And there you have it. Talk to you all next week. Hey, guys. Thanks for listening to Side Hustle Pro. If you like the show, be sure to subscribe, rate, and review on Apple Podcasts. It helps other side hustlers just like you to find the show. And if you want to hear more from me, you can follow me on Instagram at SideHustlePro, plus sign up for my six foot Saturday newsletter at SideHustlePro.co slash newsletter. When you sign up, you will receive weekly nuggets from me, including what I'm up to, personal lessons, and my business tip of the week. Again, that's SideHustlePro.co slash newsletter to sign up. Talk to you soon.