Episode 338

I know that you want to listen to your podcast, so I will keep it short. Because if you think it's important to make a duurzame keuze, can ASR maybe help? Well, I think, how then? Well, for example, when you're doing something to do with the things you love to do with Schade. Will you know more about the instructions where a duurzaam schade-restal can be? Go to asr.nl slash duurzamekeuzes. This does ASR for you and a duurzame samenleving. ASR does it. So, then you can now listen to your podcast. Sword and Scale contains adult themes and violence and is not intended for all audiences. Listener discretion is advised. A man's man should never be compromised when it comes to a female who's never been a man. Come take a load off, put your feet up, and listen to some murder. What a stupid thing to say. This is Season 13, Episode 338 of Sword and Scale, a show that reveals that the worst monsters are real. If you're a fan of true crime, I invite you to check out our brand new YouTube channel where you could subscribe the opposite way you can on our website. See, on our website, you can subscribe for 10 bucks for audio and then add video for another 10 bucks on top of that. On YouTube you can start with video and add audio. So, you know, take your pick. This is just going to complicate things, isn't it? Oh well, fuck my life. I understand that you want to listen to your podcast, so I'll keep it short. Because if you think it's important to make a choice, can ASR maybe help? Well, I think, how then? Well, for example, when it's a lot of money that you love are at Schade. Will you know more about the regulations where a lot of Schade can be? Go to asr.nl slash duurzamekeuzes. This does ASR for you and a lot of money. ASR does it. So, then you can listen to your podcast. It's just after midnight in 2019, during the summer solstice, the longest day of the year. This isn't some mumbo-jumbo New Age crap. It's when the sun is furthest from the equator. And it's a time when some say the veil between this dimension and the others is the thinnest. Okay, so maybe there is a little quote-unquote New Age wisdom. The most important point, though, is that it's Ohio, the state that's becoming quite popular around here for some reason. So, it's June 21st in East Cleveland. Believe it or not, there are posh areas in Cleveland, so that some of you savages can pretend to be people. This isn't one of them. It's not a picturesque skyline by the lake or the downtown area lit up with nightlife. It's Collinwood, a working class neighborhood that feels like it's part of a bygone era. Part of the Rust Belt. The houses are small and modest, but nice enough. And the lawns are mowed. There's just enough space in the backyard for a barbecue. Ah, Americana. A small, white, Cape Cod-style home faces a narrow street called Chickasaw Avenue. It's a mild but humid evening. No wind is blowing, and it's dark. windows stay open in most homes and the people inside are asleep the fans humming in the background but on this street as June 21st turns to the 22nd something bad is happening The call almost sounded like a hoax. The child calling in was so calm and said she lived on Chicken Saw Avenue, but this was no joke. What's your adjunct where you are? What's the address? The complete address? We don't know. You're on what street? Chicken's are out. Are you in Euclid? No, Cleveland, Ohio. You may not have caught it, but the little girl said she was about to pass out. She was trying her hardest to stay alert and get the street names right. In this part of Cleveland, the streets seem to have Native American names. And you're on Chickasaw? Yeah. Do you know another street nearby? Um, no. I'm leaving site. Ron, Turkey, I. Who? You're on Turkey? What? Turkey. What she was trying to say was Cherokee. Note to parents, make sure that your kids know where they live and how to pronounce the street names. That's a small safety tip that rivals all of the canned goods and toilet paper you hoard in your Cape Cod summer home. Yeah, I know my audience. Okay, who got stabbed, honey? Me and my cousin. By who? Up here. Our cousin. Okay, I'm going to get you over to EMS, okay? Yes, please. Don't hang up. How old are you? 10. Okay, don't hang up, okay? Okay. The dispatch operator told the EMS responder she had a 10-year-old who had a knife wound. It was hard to tell if his response was disbelief or mere frustration. I mean, this is Cleveland. Sadly, it's probably not the first time a kid called in about being stabbed. This place truly is a shithole. Okay. Are you still there, honey? Yes, I'm at the flat house. Okay. Okay. She doesn't know where she's at. She says she's on a street called Chickasaw. What's up? The corner what? It's not a corner. She just says she's on a street called Chickasaw. Oh, please. Chickasaw? Yeah. We did this. She said her and her cousin got stabbed. Okay. Was her cousin folded in her? I was your cousin, honey. Dad. By this time, the polite little girl who was stabbed and trying not to pass out was getting frustrated. You can hear her in the background desperately pleading for help. She was probably wondering when the questions would stop and an ambulance would arrive. The victims were two 10-year-old cousins who managed to escape outside. They were making their way to a neighbor's house, but all the time struggling just to stay alive. Thank God some kind people in the next street over were still up and looking out their window when they heard crying. Cleveland 911, that's just a special. I got a little girl I told my house to get her brother's theater. What's your address? My address is 19612 Cherokee. She's bleeding really bad. She's coming in my house, so please hurry. Where's the thing, buddy? Shut the door. Why do you got the door open? Imagine that. You're minding your own business, and suddenly you hear little kids crying outside. You're like, what's that? You get up to see two blood-soaked girls staggering towards your house. These days, would you even let them in? I mean, be honest. That's some The Shining bullshit right there. Some of you would probably slam the door shut, no doubt. She's knocked on my door and said that she stabbed her bleeding to death. All her clothes are full of blood. Who's bleeding to death? The two little girls. Okay, are you? And the little girl can barely talk. Yes. Okay, so I'm gonna ask you two more questions so that I can tell you what to do. These questions are gonna help me help them, okay? How old are they? Okay. They look like they're about maybe 12, 11, 12 years old. Okay. 13 or so at the moment. And are they awake? Yeah, they're awake, but they're covered in blood. Okay, and listen carefully. I want to tell you how to stop the bleeding and listen carefully to make sure we do it correct, okay? Sounds like a plan, right? But what do you do if you can't tell where the blood's coming from? So I need you to get a... But they got stabbed wounds all over. Okay. It's all over. Okay, is the brother still nearby, the one that stabbed him? No, no, no. Okay, and is there any serious bleeding? Yes, there's serious bleeding. Okay, are they completely in there? Are they going out of it unconscious? Yes, they're seeking slurred, yes. Okay, I'm giving this information to the dispatch. They're in line. They'll hang up. Okay, and you said there is more than one wound, correct? Yes, they're set all over. They got blood and they're laying in my house, in my foyer, and they're bleeding. Okay, help is on the way. It always seems to take forever for an ambulance to arrive. And the questions from 911 operators are never-ending. The truth is that the response time varies, obviously depending on where you live. But in urban areas, the average time is only about five to eight minutes. But those few minutes can feel like forever. Okay. All right, shut the door. Is she okay? Baby, both of you okay? They ran on the floor talking. How long is it going to take them to get here? They're coming right now. The fire department and the paramedics. And you're on their way? Yes, they're on the way. The excitement was almost too much for this lady. She started having her own issues. I got asthma and my breathing is getting heavy. Okay, do you have an inhaler that you can take? Yes, I'm about to use it. Okay, let's get your inhaler. Despite her own problems, this woman wasn't going to let two little girls slip into unconsciousness. I mean, if I needed somebody to bring me back, I'd want this lady. She goes hard. Hey, wake up, baby! Hey! Wake up, baby! As the woman in the house is on the phone with 911, her boyfriend comes back. He sees the kids bleeding and crying. What's wrong, babe? Who's sad? What happened? Come on. Hello? Hello? Give him the phone, honey. Say what? Hello? Can you tell Amelette where you guys are? We are right here on Cherokee, 19612 Cherokee. These kids have been stabbed up. Okay, give me that address again. 19612 Cherokee. Who am I speaking to? This is EMS and police. Hurry up, please. These girls have been stabbed bad. Come back here, baby. I can't. I'm taking this guy so our cousin doesn't find him. Ain't nobody gonna mess with y'all. Oh my goodness. Come on, who are you looking for right now? Oh my goodness. Come on, baby. Come on. I can't get up. The little girls confirm that it was a cousin who stabbed them. And she's afraid he'll find them. Not when this guy's around. I mean, would you fuck with him? I wouldn't. Weekly, she tells him she can't get up. Open that door. This girl has been stabbed up bad. Okay, that's the address where they're gonna be, the 1-9-6-12? Yes, yes, 1-9-6-1-2. Here, hurry up. Oh, my fucking goodness. Okay, are you guys responding, Petey? Yeah. Say what? Say y'all sit right there. Oh, my fucking goodness. This girl has stabbed up real bad. Does she know where the person went who stabbed her? Say what? They said they looking for them. Oh boy. These gentlemen seem ready to carry out their own investigation. But police wanted a name. The little girls were scared and going in and out of awareness. It was hard to get the needed information, and confusion was getting in the way. They don't know. Do y'all know who's up there like that? Um, sir. Yeah, both of them, sir. Yes, you can't cook out of here for the interview. Sir, we got people on the way. I'm trying to get information from you. So, it's the time that you are. Yes, these kids are stabbed up sad. They're two little girls. Oh, motherfucking girls. Man, I find this dude. Who is this guy? I got EMS already talking to them. They don't need to be transferred. Okay, I got... Who is this guy that's stabbed, y'all? Cap, I got two 10-year-old stabs. I'm Jerry. Who's this guy that's stabbed, y'all? It was 18-year-old Jalen Plummer, their cousin, who was supposed to be staying with an aunt in a different part of the neighborhood, but decided to go on a killing spree at his grandma's house instead. And the grandma was still back at the house. My dog. Oh my God. Oh my God. Please hurry up. So much was going on. As the couple in the house learned more information, the panic escalated. Some people are good in crisis and some aren't. Do they know where they live at? Don't tell me what to do. You go and do what you should do. What you think? Do they know where they live at like an actor? Do I know where they live at? Do they know where they tell us their address? They called from Chickasaw Avenue, where their grandmother, Diane Madison, lived. The two cousins escaped, but left their grandmother behind. Then, there was the cousin Jalen, who caused the bloodbath. No one knew his whereabouts yet, but you'd better hope he didn't cross paths with his neighbor. Baby, this is deep, calm down. Man, I find this motherfucker. Will you quit talking to me, Pam? Stop talking to me, please. I'm not shedding shit. I wish this motherfucker would bring his ass over here. Oh, my fucking goodness. Okay, we should have police pulling up, sir. Do you see them outside? Oh, my fucking goodness. Oh, my fucking goodness. Yeah, they pulling up right now. In the immortal words of this Ohioan, oh, my fucking goodness. This was Cleveland, but even our seasoned veteran here hadn't seen anything like this before. You could tell this was some fucked up shit that would stick with them. After talking with the two little girls and the couple taking care of them, officers realized they needed to go to the crime scene as soon as possible while the girls were on their way to the hospital. What they didn't know yet was that there was still another child in that house on Chickasaw. Justin Madison, a 12-year-old boy with autism. This was Jalen's brother, and Jalen was still in that house, too. So this is the house? Yeah. Okay. So we... You guys have a crime scene log or anything going on? Yeah, Nate's got that going. I'll just tell you guys what happened. I also got the address that came over here. His little brother, he has like a mental disability, he came up to that window. This bedroom right here, those windows, she's laying. in the south east corner of the room behind the door face down. Justin was terrified and didn't completely understand what was going on. His sister had fled the scene with her cousin. Well, more like escaped. Justin was trapped in an upstairs bedroom and didn't even know he was injured. The police were about to wade into a blood-soaked house, but first needed to convince her grandson Justin to unlock the door and come outside. Come here. Open the window. Hey, what's your name, my man? What's that? Justin. Where's your brother? Justin was risking his life letting the officers in because the killer was still there In the bathroom the water was running Jalen Plummer was fully clothed, standing under the shower. The blood from his own knife wounds swirled into the drain. Stay right here, my man. You're okay. You're okay. Where are you? What's that? You get my clothes for me. I can't. Are you okay, though? Yeah. Get your hands off! Get your hands off! Wait, my brother. My brother's in there. My brother did this. Okay. Get out of the problem! You're fine, you're fine. How old are you, my man? 12 years old? 12 years old? Yes. My mom was not at the house. Where's your mom at? Is she at work? Yes. This was a madhouse. When asked for his mother's name, he was able to give it to the officer, but he couldn't spell it, saying that she never told him how. And I cleaned it up. You cleaned it up? Yeah. Okay. It's in the sink. It's in the sink. It's in the sink right now. It's in the sink? Hey, he's saying the knife's in the sink. This guy, this victim. Yeah, he's got a little laceration to the back right now. The discovery of the murder weapon was good news and bad news. Good news that this unlikely and lucky victim found it. But possibly bad news that he cleaned it up. What's going to happen to me now? You're going to get tricked out by EMS because you got stabbed. I'm going to try getting a hold of your mom for you, okay? Justin naturally had a lot of questions about himself, his grandma Diane, and his brother, who had been led away in handcuffs. What happened to my brother now? We got him. He's not going to hurt anyone. My grandma going to be okay? Yeah, they're working on it right now. They're helping her. Okay, that's all. Dad, you saw a little dog? A little dog? I did not go in the house. I saw you outside. I came and grabbed you. What Justin didn't know was that his grandmother died almost immediately after being stabbed by his brother. In her bedroom, they found Diane Madison dead of multiple stab wounds, including one that completely severed her carotid artery. and the little dog he was referring to was sitting on the bed in the same spot where he'd been sleeping peacefully next to his owner. Now, with a look of bewilderment. The dog wasn't alone. Almost everyone who knew Jalen Plummer was bewildered. No one could yet explain why a college-bound teenager, quiet, smart, and planning to study pharmacology, had suddenly turned into a violent killer. But there were cracks long before that night. This wasn't just one terrible night. It was the unveiling of a legacy that had been building long before Jalen had ever picked up a knife. Thank you. This is ASR for you and a more expensive community. ASR does it. So, we can listen to your podcast now. especially if you sleep hot. The fabric drapes well, gets softer over time, and actually helps you stay comfortable throughout the night. They also make pajamas that feel just as good, designed for those nights when you're not going anywhere and you don't want to rush anything. Cozy Earth backs everything with a 100-night sleep trial and a 10-year warranty, which tells you how confident they are in their quality. You can get 41% off CozyEarth.com with promo code SWORD. So go get comfortable today and use promo code SWORD at CozyEarth.com for 41% off. Some people still want a drink at the end of the day, but just not the alcohol part. That's where Good Feels fits in. Good Feels makes THC-infused cannabis seltzers designed to be light, consistent, and easy to enjoy. No hangover, no heaviness, just a calm, lifted feeling that doesn't take over your night. They're made with natural ingredients and formulated to feel balanced, whether you're relaxing at home or out with friends. It's a simple alternative if alcohol isn't doing you any favors anymore. And right now, you can get 20% off at shop.getgoodfeels.com with promo code SWORD. 21 and over only, please. That's shop.getgoodfeels.com and use promo code SWORD for 20% off. On June 22, 2019, in East Cleveland's South Collinwood neighborhood, police responded to a bloody scene on Chickasaw Avenue. Two 10-year-old girls escaped their home, reporting they'd been stabbed in their sleep. When officers got to the house, they found a third victim, a 12-year-old autistic boy who confirmed that his brother was the killer. 18-year-old Jalen Plummer was in the shower, rinsing off blood after stabbing the entire household. In a bedroom, his grandmother Diane Madison lay dead from multiple stab wounds, and her little dog also laid nearby. Jalen offered only a chilling explanation. The mental health care system failed me, so I tried to kill my family. Signs of mental illness seemed obvious when Jalen was taken to the hospital and questioned. Nurses bandaged the deep cuts on his hands, but it was as if his voice was bound just as tightly. His muffled words barely escaped. He spoke in vague, detached terms, referring to his siblings as child number one and child number two. He claimed he didn't know the names of his mother and grandmother, and said he just called them mommy or grandma. His mother, Tania Plummer, would later tell detectives that Jalen had no official diagnosis, but his behavior had drastically changed between the ages of 12 and 15. He'd been drinking, smoking, shutting down, and fixating on dark things. She had just decided to get him into therapy. But here's what Jalen's mother didn't want to say. She remembered that his behavior had started to change around the time of another arrest. Police already knew the name that would leave her lips. This was a man from the same city, a serial killer that had haunted Cleveland and was arrested and convicted during Jalen's crucial adolescent years. It seemed possible this disturbed Jalen so much that he became fascinated with killing and ultimately exploded in a murderous fit that night, leaving his grandmother dead. Diane was a loving, kind person, and I think sometimes that gets lost. Almost all of us who worked with her remained friends with her afterward. That's the kind of person she was. She was the kind of person others felt comfortable with because they knew she'd been through it. They knew she was the first to sympathize. She was always open to hearing about everybody's hard times because God knows she'd had enough of her own. And I just want them to remember her smile and remember how much laughter and joy she brought to people's lives. She was someone who was compassionate, who cared about her family, who cared about her grandkids, who cared about her kids even when they couldn't reciprocate, maybe. Diane Madison wasn't just a grandmother. She was a mother of one of the most notorious killers in Cleveland's history. Her son, Michael Madison, grew up in that same house on Chickasaw Avenue. As an adult, he returned to raise a family there with his girlfriend, Tania Plummer. They had two children, including a disabled son. Eventually, Michael left them behind. Not before Jalen witnessed it all, though. The growing suspicion, the arrest, the conviction of a killer. Someone who had once called that house home. Conversation recorded on July 19, 2013 at 850. smell and I know it's garbage smell but a fly coming out of the wall from one side of the garage I mean that smell so freaking strong you could throw up I mean we just want to make sure ain't nobody on the other side or something I mean it's so bad enough man you would throw up it's hard to even take the smell so what's the address 1395 Hayden what's your name my name's That smell in the garage. If you've never had the pleasure, it's a mixture of rotting fish. Dead animal, skunk, and raw sewage. How's that lunch treating you? You're welcome. This call came in six years before Diane's murder. And it wasn't just the first sign of something horrific. It was the past catching up. It was a call to police from a cable company worker in this building that eventually led to the arrest of Michael Madison on murder charges. He lived there in an apartment, and one employee saw flies swarming in a nearby garage. So I went in there, and when I smelled the smell, I was like, oh my God, we need to call the police. East Cleveland police found the decomposing body of a female victim on Friday. They ID'd Madison as a suspect, arrested him at his mother's home, and began questioning. The garage wasn't behind Diane's house. It was on Hayden Avenue. near a small upstairs apartment Michael had been renting just a few miles away. Because by 2013, he wasn't living under his mother's roof anymore. And he wasn't the same cute, cuddly little boy she'd raised. He had turned cold. Michael Madison, Diane's son, was no stranger to trouble. He was quiet and withdrawn. He's always been that way. He'd been drifting for years through dead-end jobs, short tempers, and the kind of isolation that makes neighbors nervous. He had anger issues sometimes. I would see him upset, yelling, and I just told him to calm down. And he was okay. You know, he spoke to everybody. When the garage door finally opened and the truth finally came spilling out, literally, It wasn't just the neighborhood that changed, it was the entire Madison household, especially his stepson Jalen. The man he had once called stepdad would now be called something else entirely, a killer. Michael wasn't exactly a copycat, but his crimes bore chilling similarities to those of another Cleveland serial killer he reportedly admired, Anthony Sowell. infamously known as the Cleveland Strangler. Sowell was convicted in 2011 after the remains of 11 women were found at his home. Years later, Jalen Plummer, who lived with his stepfather Michael in the same house, appeared to develop a disturbing interest in the same notorious figure. The coroner in Cleveland, Ohio, says six bodies found in the home of a convicted rapist were female. All were homicide victims. Police arrested 50-year-old Anthony Sowell Saturday. Thank you, Jesus. Thank you, Heavenly Father. I am so glad they got him because I wasn't going to rest, you know, until they did. Before, I had to put my fridge against the door and lock myself in before I could even go to sleep. Just two years after the Cleveland Strangler was put away, Michael Madison emerged onto the crime scene. Michael was born in East Cleveland in 1977. seven. Former classmates barely remembered him because he had no real friends. He was, I guess, what you would call forgettable. He didn't graduate from high school, but he was far from stupid. He had a lot going on in his head, but no one ever bothered to ask what that was, and he never saw a therapist. But he needed one because he hated women, specifically black women. The women who fell into his nightmare weren't prostitutes or drugged out street women, not that they would deserve his fate. Instead, they were women with families, full lives and plans. And for a brief, fateful moment, each of them crossed paths with Michael Madison. The first body found was 18-year-old Sherilda Terry. She had just graduated from high school with plans for a good life. That summer, she worked at an elementary school in East Cleveland, helping run youth programs and earning respect from teachers and neighbors. She was last seen alive on July 10th, 2013, leaving school after her shift, but she never made it home. They met somewhere in the previous weeks and started texting. Michael lied, saying he was 25 with no children. When they opened the garage door, thousands of flies swarmed in the putrid air. Officers moved the bags containing her remains and a trail of decomposition fluid, left a mix of brown, gray, red, and yellow flowing like a dirty river on the concrete in front of it. It was one of the most gruesome crime scenes they'd ever laid their eyes on. She died from ligature strangulation. And investigators also noted a severe vaginal laceration consistent with sexual assault while she was still alive. Sherilda's my angel. Well, everybody called her Sherilda. I called her heaven. Why's that? I called my kids according to how they act. And that's my heaven. So, to me, he took mine. She's a praise dancer. She's a holy person. She's heavy into the church, and she's my reader, my bookworm. It didn't take long for Michael to be arrested and brought in for questioning. But it came after a standoff at his mother's house. DNA and circumstantial evidence were strong. But during questioning, detectives hoped to get some answers as to why. Michael had the spotlight for once. He talked a lot, but not about what mattered. And he wasn't the loud bragging type. Instead, he gave metaphors quietly. Parables. Detached theories about the human condition. It was as if the man accused of stuffing women into trash bags thought he was there to give a philosophical lecture. And while detectives paused for timelines and names, Michael offered riddles and speculations. black on black for the majority of my life. I've always, I told myself, told myself I would like to stay out in this country, you know what I saying three four horses you know what I saying a couple cows some sheep you know what I saying some rams some goats What are you need to do with a ram and a goat i just like see the rams like I think they had like the most testosterone in any animal really the rams they were going at it one time Yeah, he really did just say, I like the Ram Swagger. The conversation shifted for a minute to the day police picked him up. It was a sweltering day when police moved to arrest him on July 19th, 2013. He happened to be at his mom's house on Chickasaw and barricaded himself inside for hours. SWAT was called. And the standoff ended only when officers used tear gas and broke the door down to force him out. They asked him what he was thinking at the time. If it sounds garbled, it's probably because of the cheeseburger he was eating. It's not really just running into my head that this is really happening. pretty much is waiting out for real. And from all the calls, I've got a no-smile looking deal for me. This guy's maybe the chillest killer they've ever interviewed. He went on to say that while police car sirens blared and lights flashed, while voices boomed over the megaphone yelling for him to come out, he was listening to his mother's wind chimes, smoking cigarette butts from the ashtray, and thinking about his childhood. It's always good to have friends and family. No, man. Well, obviously, if a lot of the lives and family are the ones that have done, you know, just work with them. Like, you know, like, think about it, man. Like, do you think if I really, like, if I really just all out got to use my mother and her opinion and how she would feel, do you think I would have came out the door before that, you know what I'm saying, before that door got hit like that? can't fuck that door up. Yeah, I'm saying, like, I'm not saying that that's the reason that I didn't come out with. Like I said, family and friends would be the worst. And, you know, I love her mother, but, you know, she, when I heard it got to a point where I, you know, really pretty much didn't care to see her again, but, you know, during a certain time, I feel like she was there for me, you know what I'm saying? You know, that whole thing was done for a second appearance, and going forward where it's going to hold on to this and hold on to that. You know, I put all of that behind me. But, have I really? At several points throughout the more than eight hours of interrogation, Michael alluded to a loveless childhood of neglect. According to him, his mother prioritized appearance and money over him. As much as detectives wanted to make him comfortable and hear about his past, they still had a job to do. And it wasn't to be a therapist for a killer. I want you to start at the beginning. What's the whole house for? Start at the beginning. Whenever you want to start. This is your opportunity. Tell me. Tell you what. What's your house for? You got me for it? Yeah. Well, I got a call saying that they want the body in the garage around the place on the side of the house. So I'm hating. I don't know if there's people that call me because they say, I'll be around here. I'm like, is that where you live at? Let's answer that. Yes. That's it. That's where Michael lived. But all of a sudden, it was not really his place. His baby mama's name was on the lease and people just sort of came and went, all helping pay the bills together somehow in some sort of weird collective. You know, anybody could have been there. Anybody could have had access to that garage. Michael, I don't know if you had a conversation with the commander about the last six hours I've been over in your spot with an organization called BCI. I don't know, you know what BCIA is, man. You ever watch any of the CSI shows? Whenever something happens, you leave, intentionally or unintentionally, you leave stuff behind. Whether it be DNA evidence, fingerprints, blood. We're giving you the opportunity to tell your side of the story, man, okay? But please don't sit here and insult me. I've been spending the last seven hours processing your apartment. I know the evidence in your apartment. I know the evidence in your garage. I mean, please do me the courtesy of, listen, I understand that people make mistakes. I told you before, I'm not here to judge you. But please do me the courtesy of being honest, man. He argued that he was in and out of the apartment and hadn't been in the garage for weeks. the body was put in the garage less than a week before. All the detectives wanted was for him to fess up and tell them what he did. And they weren't getting anywhere. It was time to bring God into it. Little did they know that they had just made a massive overreach. This was the perfect opportunity for the suspect to, um, preach. That's all I want. That's all I got. real. It's all I've ever really had is God. So then you believe in right and wrong? Right, but I also believe in the chestnut here on earth where you had a devil and you have God. Hell is right here on earth. Like you, like you, no matter if you was a reverend, a pastor, a deacon, like you are not without sin. Like you sin, he sin. Like no one, whether it be police, pastor, no one can tell me this without sin. No one can tell me that they have never committed sin, never broken the law, whether it be misdemeanor or study. Somebody like, everybody has some type of skeleton they call a closet. And whether it be pastor or chief of police like you know throw a name on it skeletons can be as big as the name like chief of police the skeletons can be just as big as say anthony so will all the way down to little girls just leaving daycare like no one like yeah i know it's a god and i know you know what i'm saying, I know it's good and I know it's bad. They just let him keep talking. They let him drift through the vague philosophies and half-baked sermons in his little cabeza. According to him, no one wanted to hear his story, the real story, quote unquote. Again, you'll never convince a retard they're not a genius. He was fine talking about literally everything, except the murders. You know this is like I told you earlier, I'm at the beginning line of some shit that you don't want to go through. You don't want to go through and probably you all probably wouldn't wish on your worst enemy. That I'm at the starting line of. It's not like me giving you what it is you won't going to make this any easier for me. You know what I want to do? I want to do the hardest thing that a police officer ever has to do. Do you know what that is? Go to work. No. That's easy. Going out there when people are doing bad things and catching them, chasing them, fighting with them, whatever it takes. That's easy. I want to do the hardest job when I have to go to somebody and say, I'm sorry to tell you this, but if your loved one is no longer with us, they're dead. This didn't faze Michael. He just kept talking until everyone in the room was numb. It's a cool parlor trick if you can do it. Politicians are great at it. It's a shame, though, he didn't talk until he was numb. Because he would have already been there a long time ago. I'm numb. I'm truly numb. Truly numb. Truly numb. I'm not expecting to be heard. You want someone who, uh, They said he prepared for the worst, hope for the best, prepared for the worst. Like, whatever the worst is, like, I know it's still like, it's not like I'm about to go to war, I'm about to be shooting and shit. Going to war, I'm about to be in front of the judge, around other criminals. That's what I'm saying is, man, like I feel, I feel nothing. I feel it's not a damn thing. Like, I'm sure you're like, it's like I said, man, this shit, like, this world that we live in, like from generals in the army to tenants, commanders, like, how do you think some of these wars is going on? They just send somebody out on the front line, knowing that these dudes ain't gonna come back. They ain't even supposed to even come back. For the record, Michael was never in the military. He was just pulling out all the stops to make his case. even by stealing valor even though he hadn't admitted to anything yet he knew they had him so he would just hint at the motive which was i was neglected nobody ever listened to me my baby mama nags me all the time because i don't have a job wah she makes me feel less than a man women all want one thing. Wah. Wah. Wah. Holy shit, what an insufferable asshole. I hope this serves as a way for these females to stop trying to fuck guys over. You know what I'm saying? Is that what happens when they fuck you over? Oh, I mean, other than the regular, no, not necessarily. But it's gonna serve at some point. It's going to change. It's going to be some type of sick up. Did you talk to him over? Is that what this is all about? I don't know. I just don't know what this is about. I don't know. What's going on? I don't know. But, you know, a good percentage of us, their wives, run themselves for real. Then, out of the blue, probably because they were so numb from the talking, the cops flipped the switch and asked him point blank. Is this the first time you ever killed anybody? But that was a lie. In an obscured part of the interview that's barely audible, unfortunately, he admits to strangling one of the women. he was annoyed that she wouldn't leave and felt like she was trying to take advantage of him in some way he was drunk and all he remembered was putting his hands around her neck he never said she died but he never said her name later he claimed he found a body in a garbage bag and carried it down to the garage but he never put it in there it was a mirage of pieces But the pieces corroborated the evidence, and it didn't take a genius to fill in the missing pieces. You could be the man right now. Let's do it. Mike, I know. I know you've got power now. What do you think I mean, Mike? I don't know. You're not really being clear with it. You kind of... You know what we found yesterday, right? Think about what I found today, Mike. What were you talking about yesterday? He said, they're going to learn. We're going to teach. They deserve it. I was just talking about the satellite. That's delirious. No, Mike, you weren't. And I was sitting there trying to put it all together. And after we took you back downstairs yesterday, Sergeant Ruth and I and Sergeant Gardner, we sat down in my office and we talked for a long time. and we just were trying to figure out what you were trying to tell us and I and Sergeant Ruth know now exactly what you were saying bro Mike I know now we jumped right in like we found it I found out you're the man you went bullshitting you know I was y'all not if y'all are talking to me because y'all not really telling me what is you saying I got another body I thought you were kind of blowing smoke up my ass yesterday and me and Gardner and Ruth were talking about it and I thought you were blowing smoke up my ass yesterday I said I don't know I said well hey I think I think he's telling me just by his body language just by his demeanor some of the things he was saying you say you're talking out of the side of your mouth I think that that was that was he wanted to tell your story and I'm giving you an opportunity now to do it and I'm telling you I believe you now I kind of half-assed believed you yesterday And I'm believing you 100% now. So we ain't even hung on this one body. We talking about something totally different now. Whichever one you want to talk about. Like it ain't one, it ain't two. Let's do this all the way, brother. Michael barely flinched. He had admitted to having dates to his apartment and getting so shit-faced that he didn't remember them leaving. He confessed to putting his hands around one of the women's necks and awakening to find a body in a garbage bag. That's bad. But even now, when confronted with more evidence and yet another body, he deflected. The detectives were running out of patience, and now they didn't just want to know why he killed. They wanted to know how many more dead women would be found. And where they were located. I don't know. How then? Well, for example, when you're doing the expensive things you love to be, you're doing it. Want to know more about the insurance where expensive expensive expensive is? Go to acer.nl slash duurzamekeuzes. This is for you and a more expensive relationship. Acer does it. So, we can now listen to your podcast. There's something people don't talk about much when it comes to stress. The way it shows up on your face. Fatigue. Dullness. Skin that just looks worn down. That's why I want to tell you about Love Indus and their Amrutini Luminosity Dew Drops. This is a daily serum that's often described as a facial in a bottle. And it's not hype. It's been featured everywhere from Vogue and Forbes to Harper's Bazaar. and it sells out regularly because people actually see the difference. The formula is built around rare ingredients you don't see every day, like Muga Silk, a prized silk from India that helps reinforce skin strength and elasticity, Silver Tips Tea for antioxidant protection, and Ashwagandha, which helps skin recover from stress and fatigue. The texture is lightweight and silky, not greasy, and it works across all skin types and tones. Each bottle even comes with copper-crusted silk cocoons for gentle exfoliation, no irritation, so your skin absorbs the serum more effectively. If your skin looks tired and you want it to look stronger, smoother, and genuinely radiant again, This is worth your attention. I've arranged the highest discount they offer, 21% off. Go to loveindus.com and use promo code SWORD at checkout. That's loveindus.com, promo code SWORD for 21% off. Alright, let's continue. Let talk about something most people don think about until it too late If you drink even occasionally you already know how unpredictable the next morning can be Sometimes you fine Sometimes you not That where liqueur comes in Liqueur makes gummies designed to help prevent hangovers by supporting your body while it processes alcohol. The formula is built around DHM, a compound derived from the Hovenia dulcis tree that helps break down acetaldehyde, the toxic byproduct responsible for a lot of hangover symptoms. They also include milk thistle and prickly pear for liver support, B vitamins and electrolytes to help with dehydration and energy loss, and ginger root to reduce nausea. It's not about masking symptoms. It's about helping your body recover faster. They're easy to take, portable, and practical, whether you're out for the night or having drinks at home. One customer summed it up perfectly. I woke up feeling like I hadn't drank the night before. I've arranged the highest discount they offer, 20% off. Go to liqueur.com, that's L-I-Q-U-R-E dot com, and use promo code S-W-O-R-D at checkout. When they found the first body in East Cleveland in 2013, it was a trash bag in a garage. The neighbors had smelled something. By the time the police arrived, the case was already strange. The suspect, Michael Madison, was calm. He denied everything and admitted only enough to seem helpful. One woman, he said, was dead, but he hadn't killed her. He found her in a bag. He just moved her. That's all he claimed. But the evidence was there. They still didn't have a clear motive, though, only a suspect who talked in metaphors and acted like a victim all the time. This victim was also a father of two and a stepfather to one quiet teenager named Jalen, who years later would erupt into his own kind of violence in the same house on Chickasaw Avenue. The violence from both men was directed only at women. The women who raised Michael and her grandson Jalen, and three other innocent women who just happened to cross the wrong path. Mike, you got the power. Obviously, she disrespected you. Obviously, she put you into that position. Something happened, bro. She made you have to show her. And now all I want you to do is just show me. We'll talk about whatever you want to talk about. You want to talk about the most recent one first or you want to talk about another one? Whatever one you want, bro. In this tiny blue interrogation room that resembled a prison cell, detectives and Michael sat for hours on end, eating cheeseburgers from McDonald's as the questions came one after another. While the barred window raised, Michael smoked black and mild cigars, the smoke mixing with the scent of sweat and making its way out the window to the sweltering streets of Cleveland. They were finally coming to understand this killer. kind of things. Just, you know, people. People, but somewhere along the way I just lost, like I love, like I love females, not anybody, but a man's, a man's, a man's, a man's manhood should never be compromised when it comes to a female who's never been a man. It was a simple but disturbing statement. In that one sentence, Michael revealed a cracked mirror of identity, pride, and resentment against women. In 2025 especially, it's not unusual to hear the voices of frustration from men who feel diminished in relationships and society at large. Still, his words, though wrapped in philosophical language, revealed a specific grievance. This was a man whose sense of self had been shaped and maybe shattered by the women around him. Still, nothing could justify the brutality that followed. He never offered a formal confession, not in so many words. But he did give what experts call a functional confession. That's when a suspect doesn't technically admit guilt, but their behavior shows it. They lead police to evidence only the killer would know. They describe crime scenes in detail. They help close the loop. Think of Ted Bundy, who helped investigators find remains even years after denying some of his murders. Or Israel Keyes, who mapped out the burial site of one of his victims despite refusing to name all of his crimes. It's not in what they say, it's in what they do. Michael finally took detectives to the bodies. The first was Sherilda Terry, the body found in the garage. The young girl just starting her life. Next was 28-year-old Shatisha Sheely, who had a daughter. Her body was discovered in a brush pile near the garage behind Michael's apartment. It was found in layers of heavy trash bags, the same method used for the other victims. Forensic examination was limited due to decomposition, but there were signs of trauma and possible strangulation. Shatisha had bruises on her face, and her clothing had ligature marks. last to be found was 38 year old Angela Deskins she was discovered days after the first body in a musty basement of an abandoned house near Michael's apartment Angela was a quiet woman with a soft voice trying to piece her life back together she had once worked as a hairdresser someone who brought beauty to others but she struggled to get by and pull her own life together Someone introduced her to Michael. He seemed somewhat safe enough and had a calm personality. That was all it took. June 7th, they tell us that's when they last saw Angela. And since then, they say they have been frantically searching for her. But this week, police confirmed their worst fear that cops had found her body, that 38-year-old's body. Investigators right now aren't saying how she died. cops discovered her remains in a backyard Saturday near Shaw Avenue. Now, new this morning, a statement from the family, quote, Angela Daskins was a beautiful, sweet, kind-hearted woman. She was raised in Novelty, Ohio, by her father, Robert Daskins, and her stepmother, Linda Daskins. Everyone who knew her loved her. She was a wonderful daughter, sister, and aunt who truly cared about her family and friends. She is loved so much and will be missed by everyone who knew her. In the days after Michael's arrest, neighbors were quick to share their memories, not about him, but about his mother, Diane Madison, and what she'd been through. Everyone spoke highly of her. I want her to be remembered as someone who cared deeply for her children, someone who cared passionately about her community. She was just a fine person. I'm a better person for having known her. Michael loved his mother. He admitted this openly. But he also alluded to neglect. What he didn't do in the interrogation was throw her under the bus. But the defense did that for him at the trial. The trial formally started in April of 2016. By early May, Madison had been convicted on all counts. Three counts of aggravated murder, three counts of kidnapping, three counts of gross abuse of a corpse, three counts of rape, and one count of possession of criminal tools. The following week, the court turned to mitigation evidence, opening the door for a glimpse into Michael's upbringing. Underneath the calm exterior of the woman next door, the community activist and loving mother and grandmother, the defense painted an entirely different portrait. They described Diane as cruel, neglectful, and violently abusive. Michael's attorneys revealed years of torment that started in childhood, documented by an expert clinical psychologist who evaluated Michael and examined his records. They said Diane beat him regularly, locked him in closets, and even forced him to eat feces. It didn't stop there. The defense told the court he was also sexually abused and emotionally abandoned. They argued that Diane's abuse left scars so deep that they helped shape the monster he would later become. During the victim impact statement given by Sherelda's father, chaos broke out in the courtroom when, for some reason, he stopped mid-sentence and lunged across tables towards Michael. He started attacking him and had to be pulled off. His sister later clarified what happened at that moment. During the sentencing, you have the families there and they're pouring out their hearts and saying how they're going to miss their families and what their families meant to him. And he's sitting over there smiling, which caused my brother to launch at him. And to him, he heard, fuck the daughter, excuse me, the life of my daughter, the life of my niece, the life of our baby, who we called heaven. OK, so it was horrible to be that close, to have to breathe his air, to be in the same room with a person that is so horrible and don't even care. He don't care. He was he was laughing when she gave him the death penalty. You heard it. At the end of the trial, no mitigating circumstances were going to stand in the way of justice. Michael Madison has now spent nearly a decade on Ohio's death row. He was sentenced on June 2, 2016, and was scheduled to die by lethal injection on May 20, 2021. but an unofficial moratorium on executions has stalled all lethal injections in Ohio since 2020. Want to know why? Well, they're waiting for an alternative execution method in place of lethal injection. You see, they can't get their hands on the right drugs to make the deadly cocktail. They could put dogs and cats to sleep all day long. All the strays, put them all to sleep in a humane way, we're told. But they can't get the cocktail right for humans. Isn't that strange? It's almost as if they don't want to, and are just hiding behind some bullshit regulation in order to not do it, despite what the populace might have voted for already. doesn't sound very democratic, does it? Anyway, for now, this asshole is still alive as the system that condemned him sits frozen in time, almost by design. I am struck by the sheer inhumanity of what one human being can do to not one, but three human beings. It is incomprehensible. You cajoled, moored, and deceived Shatisha Shealy, Angela Deskins, and Sherelda Terry to your apartment for your depraved purposes. You went on to abuse the corpses of these three victims. You stripped them from the waist down. You folded them in half, binding them so that their feet were up by their ears. You wrapped them in multiple layers of trash bags and you discarded them. This killer didn't just kill out of nowhere. His crimes were monstrous, but they happened after unresolved festering thoughts from a long and tangled legacy of suffering. Then you add the alcohol and possibly drugs and poof, you get a Soren Scale episode. Lucky you. Decades later, in a cramped Cleveland apartment, a young Michael was beaten, locked in closets, humiliated, and allegedly forced to eat feces by the very person who was supposed to protect him, his mother, Diane Madison, a woman the public celebrated after her death. Later, he was allegedly sexually abused by one of her boyfriends. Michael felt emotionally discarded and shoved through the cracks of a system that barely noticed he was falling. Then came Tania Plummer, the mother of his child who, according to Michael, belittled him and called him less than a man. A man's manhood, he said, should never be compromised by a female who's never been a man. That quote may sound absurd on the surface, but beneath it lies a cold bit of truth. One that points to a deeper identity crisis, especially among men raised in trauma by women who are in trauma themselves. It's a warped belief born in pain and shaped by powerlessness. It's an endless loop. I don't know how the fuck we get out of. Do you have any ideas? And then came Jalen, Diane's grandson, the quiet boy who watched all of this unfold, who once lived under the same roof as Michael. In 2019, Jalen, just 18 years old, would creep into Diane Madison's home and stab her to death in her own bed. he didn't just kill her he nearly decapitated her he pleaded guilty in 2021 and is serving a life sentence with eligibility for parole in 30 years his brother sister cousin and sad little dog all survived the incident and remained in the care of their mother to nia plumber so here is the question. Did Jalen inherit the same demons that haunted Michael? Was this demonic possession some sort of poltergeist in this house of horror? Or do we accept a more rational explanation? Did Jalen learn violence by watching his uncle in and out of his life bringing stories of abuse and death with him? Did Diane really change into the person neighbors claimed? Or did the darkness inside that house simply go unnoticed until it exploded again? Did the systems America has in place fail both of these men? Or did society simply stop asking the hard questions and stop doing the hard things once the bodies were found. In the end, does it all really matter anyway? It should. We all have this feeling in the back of our mind that it should. We should do better at raising all of our children. We should have a safer and happier and more mentally sound civilization. It started with the allegations of abuse at the hands of one woman. Two men carried it forward, and three innocent women, in addition to Diane herself, paid the ultimate price. Not one of them deserved to die. That's going to do it this week. Thank you for joining us. I invite you to go check out our latest episode of Sword and Scale Television entitled Home. Easily one of the most fucked up things you'll ever see. I promise. Thank you. Thank you.