Your Values are Either Destroying Profits or Building an Empire - Robert Glazer

Welcome to the proven podcast where you don't care what you think, only care what you can prove. On this episode we talked about Robert Glazer, someone who is built a company that has won the award 30 times as the best place to work. From fortune to ink to entrepreneur magazine, they keep awarding it. So what's the answer? Well, it comes down to values. Something I never thought. He walks us through and even challenges my own values on this episode. It's a ride. I recommend getting on tight and playing along the show starts now. Are we welcome back to the show Robert I'm excited to have you out here. Charles, thanks for having me. So for the four or five people on the planet who actually don't know who you are, that's a little bit who you are what you do and a little bit about your book. Sure. So I've been, I have that disease called serial entrepreneurship. I've started a few different businesses, the largest of which is a global partnership marketing firm called Acceleration Partners that I'm chairman of. However, you know, as it was building that firm, we tried to do some things differently culturally and from a leadership standpoint. We won over 30 best places to work awards and it kind of started writing a lot and talking about things that we were testing and doing. That has sort of led to a second career as an author and speaker and a lot of focus on leadership and development. And I've really double clicked on this concept of core values both for organizations and actually like more interestingly for individuals as a way of really understanding what is important to that. I think the world right now, you know, we you degree, we are very tribal and I think we're people are joining teams and doing thing that doesn't make sense and virtue signaling and feel and and that's all from a lack of grounding and values that would make you say no, no, no, like I like that's not me like I agree with that or I don't agree that it's not about the teams, but it's about a consistent set of values that you can align to your decisions and the communities and things that you believe in. So when you talk about core values, it's a hot term right now everyone's talking about core values or everyone rolls the right. Yeah, it's the same because we're using the stupid pictures on the wall with the landscapes and like vision and you know, if all that, the birds flying and all that has someone who's done this and has been a success viewer, how would you define core values. So, so I appreciate you saying that I feel like I'm a little bit of self deprecating lawyer because I say the same thing you like look 90% of that corporate core value stuff is BS and runs core values as they were going under were integrity and respect and whatever the other one was and then the funny thing is is people go to individual core values, they laugh at all the company stuff and roll their eyes and then if you look up core value exercises, you will find tons of one word less and so that's equally as garbage. So I'm with all of you and when I talk about them like look throw out all of your definition so here's my definition of actionable core values and I think that's kind of the difference and they can never be one word in my book because they just that doesn't work and we can talk about the two most popular one word ones which are family and integrity and why those are core values. But core values are simply the non negotiable principles, the guide your behavior and decisions historically people have been willing to lose their life over their values like it's your red lines. If you're honest about them so couple qualities they are intrinsic not aspirational they reflect who you are not who you wish you were a lot of people are trying to pick things that they want to be know this is like who are you and what's your operating system. They're consistent they show up a core values show up the same way in all areas of life work relationships and personal decisions and they're clarifying they help you make better choices about who to spend time with what work to do where to live. It's kind of this instruction manual you weren't given at birth and the reason for it is that they are fundamentally formed during those formative years probably like eight to 20 and actually for most people absent some dramatic change later in life or dramatic thing you can you can drive all. Those core values back to your childhood because that's been your moral intuition is forming even if you're reasoning isn't sort of there yet. So there's a lot of unpack there why is family integrity not considered values and then also if these are formed between 18 and 24. Yeah, it probably eight and 20. Yeah, who I was between eight and 20 is no luck to say person I am now or 48 right fundamentally different human being. So I've got two challenges there like okay why are these not core which I agree with you but also are these permanent now with these values that you're talking about so. So that is the number one question I get asked so so we'll we'll we'll go into that. So I remember the second part what was the first question the first part is why is family integrity. Yeah, so let's let's start with the second part first so so what happens is yes you have different priorities you have different decisions but you you have this same compass whether you realize it or not as I explain to someone I have a find a better way and share it core value that's why I'm on this podcast. What I thought was the better way at 20 isn't the same as what I think is the better way and almost 50 however like that is my or any any philosophy and when you look at people's core values and I've done this with thousands of people and we can play the opposite game and I can ask you and we can play this live. It is 99.9% are four or against so it was either something that was really important to you when you were doubling down on or something that did not sit well with you and was a point of pain that you might have turned into purpose and you determined I will not be like that I will not do that and I will do the I will do the opposite. So it is so clear that these driving forces come back to those times so I think when people say no I'm not the same or it's changed there's usually a couple of things that have happened one you didn't have the right core values in the first place you're not clear on what they are to see the consistency to you might have the right core values but you're not living it so you're feeling pretty right because you're out of alignment or three it's actually been a change in priorities and not not a change in values I think a lot of people aren't clear on what that value is to see the through theme so that's a integrity. I've heard ten different definitions of integrity there's some for some people that sell the truth the others it's live up to your ability what when I ask people and it's one word I don't know how to judge myself on that and we'll talk about sort of the core validator which is the four test rubric for a test rubric for if it's a helpful core value so when I say to people what does integrity mean to you if I said like Charles you like you know now I get down to this route really important thing it means you do what you say and say what you do or means you always tell the truth or it means you live up to your best and that's the thing that actually would carry across all aspects of their life similarly with family think families a priority it's not a value it might be wasn't at at at 16 also I'm not sure how to help you and work or how does family help you with your friends when I do that same second level thing Charles you just told me families a core value explain what family means to it's the second level thing where it means you've got your people's back you always show up and you're there or it means commitment to a community those again are much more helpful answers to how you show up as a leader and a friend and a family member and so like that's the real thing I got to tell you some people's definition with family is you have your families back no matter what like that's not mine like I'm not I don't excuse the drunker the drunk uncle at the wedding who's doing really inappropriate things and just be like oh that's just Uncle Harry touching you know all the girls on their butts like like you know like you know like you know I know but that's honestly like that's what I'm saying that people have really different destinations of family some believe you defend family to the death no matter how horrible they are to you right so it's important to understand what people mean by that right I think there are placeholders when you use core values in the sense of single word things like family integrity what you're saying how do I treat family how do I treat the people I love how do I interact with those things I think that's it sounds like that's what is that being about family that I actually value what is my non negotiable love family right right it's always showing up it's always having people's back it's all like and that is the same way that you show up as a leader it's the same way you show up as a friend and it can give you that rubric I have used in one of my key notes an example of hey if your definition of family gets to you should always show up as a friend your dad's father dies and you're really busy and you're not sure if you should go to the funeral you should go because you're going to feel horrible about yourself I had a guy come up to me after my speech with that hypothetical answer and say you know what I actually think my core value is similar to that and I missed a funeral 10 years ago and I think about it like almost like every month right so because that if that's what you value and you go against that you're going to feel the one of the we can talk about the inverse test but but the test of a core value is that when it's violated you feel horrible right you feel you feel bad it's because it's the opposite of something you care about that's fair that so it's a different definition is a different filter point so when you do this and you work with clients what are the first steps that you do when you walk into this because again in order for you to win 30 words on the best places of the work there's obviously something that's actually worked and you're doing some very core thing this actually started so once I figured this out and for myself which totally changed my life and we built this into our leadership development we started doing classes and teaching them how to understand their personal core values they were confused at the offset they're like wait we're not doing the company core values like what and like no look I think that you are going to show up as a if I'm trying to help build you into the best leader I can be you are going to show up as the most authentic leader if you build your leadership style from what you truly value and care about and you can communicate that to people so in the book in the compass within there's a story there's a process it actually starts with answering six questions and if we don't get to all of them if you just go to robberglaser dot com slash six they're all there with a little video but these six questions are design behavioral based questions design to pull out highs and lows from your life and help you look at you know consistent themes so I can give you a few examples yeah so six we'll do all six all right so in what non work environments are you highly engaged so and don't say when I worked at Charles's place like why when I was given a team when I was given independence when I had clear rules when I had ambiguity like what is it that made it so great for you so when you talk about engage so the first question you know what were not in work or I'm going to engage how would you define engaged like you're excited to be low yeah like it's there's no clock right you know the stuff that we all do like we don't care what time it is and like it we just would do it even if someone didn't pay us like that's the flow is probably a good proxy gotcha okay and when you've asked leaders about this and you've asked team about this and you get this what are the answers that you're like now you completely miss the bark that's not at all what I'm asking about but this is actually what I'm asked well what it was not why it was right sorry it again I could same thing what professional roles the next question did you do your best work when I worked at McDonald's does not helpful right when I when I but if you said look what I did my best work when I was out in front of people and I was building relationships and I was greeting them and like that you know and I and when I was sitting behind a desk and just dealing with myself not that starts to get to the types of environments and situations the third one which I always love is what advice and qualities do others come to you for like what what do they come to you that you're uniquely good at solving for them deep one what would you want said about you in your eulogy and then and then this is the one that we can test a little bit I can hijack the way to one of your core values but but the negative opposite questions are super interesting so when were you disengaged in a personal or professional setting and then here's the one we can role play a little bit and it actually people watch the video they'll see if I do this right your facial expression you know when we nail this but also ask you this one right he chose what qualities and other people like just drive you crazy or that you struggle with complete lack of situation all where so right and so you said it so you said right you said that dead pants so no self awareness can't read the room like I have no sense of how they should open the world yeah if you're in line at Starbucks and you've been you and I've been in line for eight minutes and then you get there and you're like I wonder what I want I should be able to pick you up and move you like now you've had five minutes pay attention lock in that in the out of my mind all right so you're you're in the airport line now now for those of you watching on videos I want you to watch Charles's answer and I want you to watch his face which usually comes before so you're in an airport line it's like 20 minutes long everyone's there and waiting quietly some guy walks up like pretends to be looking the other way and just walks into the front of the line and starts a conversation with you like how how how do you how do you react to that if some random person he would have got me off target I'm like what are you doing he's playing down he's playing dumb he's walking right to the front of the line like he doesn't see the entire line behind you yeah that would normally get me to him because I wouldn't like what he would do to the people behind me I'm like you get to move now I will address this so everyone else can order there's normally what I would do in that situation like you're not you're at a cocktail party and someone is just like talking about stuff that's clearly offending everyone around them and they have zero sense of like what they're saying what is what is that feel like to you yeah so yeah like it's on record yeah those of you you don't have this you just prove my point you don't have to say anything your face told me that like we are on the right track it's a good thing and you probably have a core value that's something like and again awareness like that like that's weak but what about a core like read the room right that I know I have a bunch of people I know with that core value which sounds like that that like you know how to say it you know when it's not being done you would see yourself you wouldn't be like due to awareness but you'd be like to the guy in line dude read the room like we're all in line here like what makes you think you can walk up to the front of the line yeah it's what triggered for me was like you don't get to take advantage of other people that's you don't get to do this the world doesn't bend and you be in service dollar right and you said triggered like the opposite of a value is is triggering so that's a good example of you if I if you had started making that list you would have had a bunch of things that maybe indicated the opposite of of core values so it's it's interesting because people ask us all time it was this is a mind I'm still made for someone else yeah this guy goes how do I become happy I've tried my entire life I'll be happy this is a journey of happiness and the guru guy looked at him and he goes is there any happiness in that pursuit he's like no he's like how does if you want to be happy stop doing all the shit that makes you want to happen and therefore the only thing that will be left will be that so it sounds like that's the approach with the opposite of values is going through and say okay this is the stuff that triggers me as not that is oh that if I remove all of those I'm going to be left with what actually resonates with me right the opposite is is true right you have enjoyment in helping to bring awareness or bring group to people right it's what you do well is getting people to probably acknowledge the situation around them and bring them together and hang you know have awareness so the problem with the opposite test is sometimes people can't articulate correctly what the inverse is you know they want to use it as a shortcut which is why I like going through the full process because it helps when you have the mirrors where you're like oh this behavior is the opposite of this behavior it goes together and by the way I'll try this with you to like my guess is you grew up in a household you know in someone who either stressed self-awareness and away or someone who was completely unaware of how they're their behavior impacted other people close because I've done a lot of work and before we get into this people therapy is the gift you give yourself please go to therapy it's very helpful for you for me mine comes down to effectiveness I value effectiveness above all else so for me if soons and line and they don't know what they need to order you're being ineffective if you're cutting in line in front of all these people I'm like you have now violated effectiveness I adore effectiveness and if we're going to go with you know little Freudian here it's because I was a lachki kid right I grew up and my I was in a single pair at home I was raised by my dad he wasn't around a lot so I had to very much take care of myself look at what is the most effective thing I could do to make sure that I don't die and be I can play Nintendo as much as you may possible so everything was about efficiency so one of the things I adore more than anything else is efficiency so just I think that awareness comes from me at Dory efficiency and independence and again you just improved what I said it tends to come from something and we have a we have a hard time people when they're doing this work they they I see them choke up and they say to me I'm like so where's the root of that you know because you've you tied to the root then you know it's real and they're kind of like but I loved my parent and I'm like look you I want you to change the sentence you can say I love my parents and I was alone a lot at his kid and I needed to figure this out and by the way it's now my superpower and I'm good at it but being honest about where it came from is super helpful because look as a leader you're going to struggle with people that are ineffective and waste figure out what to do and the more you can tell them that the better absolutely so versus the vision family integrity now we're locking into what actually moves and what drives you so if you've got someone and we'll just keep ripping me apart because it's easy if you've got someone who who values efficiency and values people who are creative and I go listen I know there's a problem I have no problem is a problem I love that but you got to put me two answers to whatever the problem is if not you don't get right so you probably that could be a different core value you might have a core value of solve the problem or or I you know be a problem solver yeah so you can you protect the time my for be efficient let's protect time so you would be you want to communicate to your team look team you guys know I'm about problem solving so I don't want you not come to me to problems and I'm happy to think with you but like when you come to me have done the work with a couple proposed solutions and if I disagree with those we'll talk about it but don't come to me just to complain about things like I'm not the leader for that so by the way wouldn't that wouldn't that be empowering to you as a leader to say look like you're kind of just laying your rule book out there for other people and being like my red lines yeah I do this I say listen you're not allowed to bring me a problem unless you bring me two solutions if you do bring me a problem without two solutions you get to find a new job and I remember there was one problem one of the companies I ran the Cayman because I have the same addiction you do or disease which is the you know zero entrepreneurship yeah and they came in there was a there's a specific problem and the two solutions they gave were wild they're like okay would we think we should take whatever peanut butter and put it on a flamingo I'm like what and then they told me the problem I was like yeah I got no idea that's right storm it out but they knew they had done the work beforehand and we had that going so I've built those in and it's changed my org I'm curious with the people you've worked with and not only in your organizations and also the organizations you've worked with what are some of the core things like that that move the ball game and then me give you another example whenever I have meetings there are no tables sorry there are no chairs it's a non-negotiable there are no chairs therefore we're having standing meetings you have already for efficient yeah it's efficient we've already put it on a memo we've already got it fully debriefed okay everybody knows what's going on we have already had a question to advance now let's hit the meeting let's rock and roll because we create this a fish and just speeds things up it's something stole from Jeff Bezos one pizza two pizza meetings or whatever it was yeah I think and my guess is you know you have your personal values you have your company values the company values are very infused by the personal values and I think look everyone to our early thing around a lot of the virtue signaling a not tied to values people are spending way too much trying trying to appeal to everyone you should say the things kind of like someone once told me with my keynote speeches if no one hates it no one will love it it can be a warm it can't be a warm cup of tea that's like sometimes when the guy who helps me draft it and I go feels warm cup of tea he knows that's like the worst insult right and so what you're trying to do is signal to the world hey 2% of the people that would love working here to me it's like universities universities don't pretend to be something they're not there's a real difference between a rural small liberal art school and a huge you know university of Florida campus school they are not they're both great schools for the right kids I think too many leaders and too many organizations are trying to like signal a lot of common denominator stuff rather than saying here's what where about here's what I'm about if you love this and want to join that great this is my leadership style if you're not someone who likes to look for improvement efficiency and you like to drag you're not going to like working for me like that's a fair thing to say but also having I think having the importance of yes I might have this efficiency I'm driven by this this is who I am I need to bring someone else in who people can go to or can get in my face because this is an addicted to ship be able to get in my face and say listen yeah I'm just in a couple things by doing this that's how some push back and having you be able to say listen this is what values to me but my ego does it run the org the org that values they need to be in harmony they don't need to be in unison and they can't be in opposition so if you have someone on your team who is the direct opposite of five of you like if they're the opposite of efficiency I call that a danger area this is the same as a relationship we can dance around that we know Charles is going to come in with the efficiency play and I'm the slow guy play but we well it works you know it bounces it out but if we have four more of those one is like Charles is like spend freely and this person is like save it like it's going to be too much energy consumed so we are looking for things that can exist in harmony but it's okay if an organization has a few non-negotiables and any organization you're leading is probably going to have something around efficiency or problem solving and if you're not a problem solver if you're a problem creator or not a solution you're not going to survive and the best thing I could do is tell you that and go direct you to another place where you will be happier I don't think there are absolutely good or bad cultures I think it's very much like schools I'm about to take another kid out to look at colleges I'm trying to find the one that's the best fit there's not an objectively good or bad there are ones that his sister would have loved that he would hate and vice versa absolutely yeah it's interesting you say that you brought off you know University of Florida Florida state or FSU I played baseball growing up poorly I had a 92-minor fastball and I knew the strike zone was next to the guy kept hitting with the ball but these guys wanted me to go and I went up to FSU to check it out and I knew that if I went to FSU it wouldn't work for me because I would just eat and be drunk and do all that and I don't even drink but I was just part of the whole time like that's not going to work and work luckily the you know my father saw that he's no you're going over here because you just don't have that discipline control there so knowing that there's there's imperfection and perfection and there's perfect things for different reasons so when you show up in these environments and you're trying to connect with people and you're trying to walk them through this value court or trying to have them flying their compass where do they loose track where do they completely fall off and where do they fail well I am there's funny I got a similar question recently I think and I have two answers to that one I will tell you I spent six months doing this work with no resources arduous I spent years perfecting the process I've created a book I've created a course I've created things whatever and people just want to like one hour like so I think they fail macroly in looking to cheat cheat around like how do I find out my most important principles in life and not being willing to invest a little bit of time in this the other major area of failure as I said in the definition is these are not aspirational I when I see people really struggling they're trying to figure out like things that they think they want to be or should be and they're not willing to be honest about who they are I'll give you a great example my find a better way value like I have constant I'm restless constant never ending improvement I generally know that I need to be more patient and present but actually in patients is sort of like a skill set of mine it would be I can want to be more patient because I think any strength overuse any value overuse is a weakness right so trying to fix anything at all time will make improvement in nothing so I can say look it's a goal of mine to be a little more patient but patients isn't a value saying that I want patients as a value to counteract something that is a prop like that's not like that's not true I don't lead with I lead with impatience I lead with we should do something about this problem probably similar to you so that that's that's where I see people really get into trouble where like their things that they think they should be saying or they look good at marketing but they're not truly who they are I don't know what that word is I think it's Sanskrit of some three pay pay I don't know that is the page patient think that's Sanskrit haven't figured that word out yet you would are very similar but I think to your point having the honesty say guys patients isn't my gift it's not like I tell people all the time if you're expecting proper grammar and spelling to come out of me nope it's just it's not so I text people that like that's not even a word I'm like yes but you knew what I was trying to say that's not a gift I have but you probably picked a partner who is patient you know it's funny how the opposite thing comes into play ironically yes people who spell very very well yeah because nothing I don't how to do that I outsource my weaknesses intentionally consciously or that's it plays the game so when they actually invest the time which new one does everyone wants to take the magic pill so it's perfect example people want to lose weight it's not complicated be racist if it's white don't stick it in your mouth that's that secondly 45 minutes of walking every day get your 2000 steps in you're gonna lose weight lower your color can take more calorie deficit calorie deficit walk to 1000 steps a day do this this do that for the next three months you were gonna purge or regrettably you had some family software someone could eat for a week that that works too not recommended very very bad very bad so when they go through this and I actually invest the time what's the outcome they get from doing these tests because we hear this all the time take the miles breaks or which can be completely manipulated or take this one this to me is just the ultimate personality so what they cares what they get first they want alignment they're also rushing to alignment before clarity when they really have clarity someone sent me this list yesterday like these are my values like man this is like so me and it's so clear and you have that epiphany okay once you have the clarity then it's super easy to look across those big three my relationship my partner my community my work are these things aligned people I'm spending time with the people I'm doing it with am I in a dead end relationship you know one of the things around like I'm not trying to get people to break up but when you think about dating sites these days they are all as we said before interestingly when you lean on a married people they are they are opposite on a lot of these personality tests right because there's some harmony dating sites like the problem has been it's kind of like finding your clone or your best friend like oh we both like this music and we like to ski and we like whatever but we don't share values right we don't look at the world the same way we don't have the same operating system right so that's that's a really important look for people and I think it's been really clarifying I we had a leader on our team who was doing the core values years ago I was coaching her she actually came back to me was excited about them and and then she had this weird five-second sort of look on her face and I was like what's wrong are they not right and she's like no they're totally right I just realized she was in the middle of going through a divorce that my ex is the opposite of three of these right and so my answer was like I'm not surprising like that's hard but it's not surprising and it determines a lot of our relationships business or anywhere else so when you're coaching someone and they they finally do the time they put the effort in they actually get the compass and they get the values and it locks in and they have these awareness is what is the implementation factor for there because again you know I'm about to fit in the implementation factor is is is really confident decisions big and small like I'm going to walk away on this I'm you looked in my life I walked away from a lot of things and I started double downing on other doubling down on other things that were clearly aligned when I talk about the big three the the partner vocation and community the one that people keeps coming up is like community they're like you know what I really overlooked my community like I'm a we should all get along and share perspectives person and I live in a just political town where everyone has a red or a blue sign and like this just isn't me or I'm in groups that aren't aligned with me or I have friends who are bringing me that so I think the community one is the one because environments it's really hard to display the opposite behavior that your environment is playing right will power is is is is is a resource that's diminished easily the best way you can maintain will power if I don't want to drink that I don't want to live in Newcastle England where everyone goes to the pubs at two o'clock every afternoon I want to live in Park City, Utah or Boulder Colorado where every there's a bike club at night and there's a hiking club and there's a whatever so I think the awareness of the environments that people have put themselves in has been one of the biggest outcomes of this work. Have you seen people finish the values and go oh wow I'm violating community I need to physically move like does the breakups happen all the time when I will be people they have it fast it's it's really simple like this this isn't my truth because for me I'm used to these being your truths but I like values as well where people literally go yeah I move and I had a company I was coaching and and the leadership you might could see this woman on the right I could see her epiphany that she needed to move but remember community means different things right so sometimes it is where you live and it's defined by that but it could be what activities you're doing where you're spending time you know your religious organizations or not so it has a few different definitions but I I definitely saw this woman as she had the I don't know if she moved but she had the I don't live in the right place epiphany kind of in this in this discovery process so I have found with the stuff that I've done that because I got I'm used to this being known as your truth once you know your truth congratulations you're gonna get higher high but you're also gonna get lower lows like I'm sorry it's like I get you a awareness and let's not pretend synonyms just making decisions based on your values your truth they cost you something right like the short they cost you money they cost you friends they cost you relationships like but these decisions you can you they feel good in the long run you can justify them you look better over time the decisions that make people make that are based on appeasement or virtue signaling or what's easy in the short term those just get worse and worse over time because we live in this 24 by seven X Twitter world and so it just seems easier to quell today's fire sometimes by doing something that we fundamentally don't believe in and those are the decisions the age the poorest and people do this all the time right they're like hey I'm gonna sacrifice my dreams for a temporary feeling right now I'm like what are you doing like I want my dope of me hit my grow up so it's it's and just it is what it is food food's a great example I love ice cream on levels I can't possibly tell however I don't want to know that if you ate it five times a day your future self would not be very happy with you I be dead right so I have to be able to sacrifice the now for the future and that's a hard thing for a lot of people to do once they have access to their values does that become easier for them I think it becomes a lot easier I again I'm not the decision isn't easier but the clarity is easier right if health and health and vitality is is a core value of yours like mine like it's easy to make that decision I understand why I'm doing it also really helps you know think about like we have some family values you know one's responsibility wants health and I always say like what my kids are older now but when I was talking them younger and someone wanted to skip meals it was like that's not healthy and when someone wanted a fourth brownie it was like that's not healthy right and so it for brownies is not healthy this is a much more important tell 16 year old boy that but instead of saying so what's a rule what doesn't work well with kids is arbitrary rules right that's a rule or we don't do that I mean doing it this way is the why like it's not just arbitrary it's like but that's just not a healthy choice like and we talk about this a lot yeah this is who you are to human being are you a healthy person you're not a healthy person is this a line with who you are it's the joys of living in South Florida which I'm not in at the moment is Miami is very different than West Palm Beach yeah I don't drink I don't smoke I don't do drugs that just knocked out dead county for me really simply exactly you don't you put yourself in that environment like that's you're either going to do two things you're one going to do the opposite of what everyone's doing you're going to go to the bar not drink and be like this isn't fun or you're going to go to the bar and drink because everyone's doing it and you're going to be like I really didn't want to do this right it is will power is consumable and so putting yourself in environments that go against what you actually want is not really helpful absolutely so when you come in and you talk about your family having values and you're teaching kids these values I think there's a lot of people who sit back and go okay how do I get my kids to do this how do I get my kids to because again their brains aren't even fully developed until they're can't do 23 they're still they're still raw dough at that point so now they're popular question so so if you're talking about the book and this full framework and the core value of doing all these exercises I really like that for kids that are graduating college sort of 22 plus if you're taught I think getting kids on their individual values like when they're younger is harder I think maybe you start with family values and that collective identity and I like doing those more simply not not my whole test like like glazers are or glazers aren't like I like like glazers tell the truth glazers show up glazers don't lie glazers don't why right these are these are these are kind of mantras that you know eat to 18-year-old kids can kind of remember and understand pretty simply I like glazers don't why clearly wine clearly that is not part of my tribe my tribe we have we have mastered we have mastered that part so when you're doing that and you're going through it how do you hold people accountable to the right to talk about characters to stick yeah how do we get someone to say okay we know that in your situation the glazers your family we don't lie but someone comes up and says does this dress make me look fat is the response no the dress is fine your ass makes you look fat how do you handle those I I've given that example before and my I joke that my answer is very different if it's a half an hour before we were due to leave the house versus five minutes after we were late right from now you're yielding honesty for efficiency it's what do you think of this outlet five minutes after we were supposed to be in the car it looks great I think I think I'm out of lasers lie though well I didn't necessarily say that was ours or but in that so in that situation how do you do that right how do you handle the okay we need to know someone once told me it takes 10 years to know if your kids were listening to you and so you're going to repeat a lot of things eight nine ten eleven what's going to be interesting for you is when your teenage kids do start calling you out on this stuff right and they say dad you know you're doing this or dad like no he told us not to lie and that seems like a lie and and and it's going to at least form a discussion about values but if you go oh no that's for me not you then you've lost all credit you lost yeah all credibility but I think this is where like an intelligent discussion and you know one of the things I have a mantra there's a best version of the truth and to me that's different than lie the difference is a white lie is that a white lie is often incompatible with the truth the best version of the truth could be a cliff note version of the truth that doesn't contain all of the stuff that people don't need to know at the time but if that all comes out it's not inconsistent so that could be like again a discussion point with my kids and they said actually you lied there say no like here's the difference I did not tell you all of it because first of all it wasn't my thing to tell you some stuff was going on so I told you the amount that I felt appropriate with but it was not inconsistent with the truth so it it yeah and you should admit where you screw you know what you're right I screwed up I actually did kind of tell a white lie there that's the best thing you could ever like you're human you're fallible you don't get it wrong all the time and you say look like I you know I told mom I liked it because we're always late and like I can't stand being late and I think it's rude to other people so in that case I felt like it was more important to be on time than it was to like answer that question that way and that might not be right and they may look at you as a hypocrite but like being willing to even have that discussion and not be like the rules apply to me and not apply to you both in or so many things that parenting is just good leadership the thing that's driving me nuts and that is the core of my next book is that we have we understand and mostly agree on really good leadership qualities when you move them into the parenting sphere we completely abandon them and almost do the opposite and and and don't understand we know micro management is horrible and debilitating in the workplace it is the default parenting approach this is also parenting is not is is leadership not ownership you don't own your kids your goals to help guide them to be whatever they're going to be as long as I meet some you know don't don't hurt people like that's the the sort of the thing don't be me down to people but you don't own them they don't belong to you if your kid decides that it wants to be a five-headed astronaut penguin that dances on in this area ahead okay that's nowhere close of what I wanted to do but just be nice to people on the way just it's what your expectation you're you're you're basically saying what I was at a leadership event where a world-class child psychologist was speaking they said why do you have kids and everyone answered they're like all of those reasons were about you yes like and what you wanted and what you hoped for like that is not what look your goal is to transmit or transmute your values to your kids it doesn't always work they your values may not align with things that they think or feel and it may go you know for for or against but seem in a company again it's so interesting the connections my as a great leader my job is to set people up to replace me it's not to create permanent employment as their manager there are parents who's figuring out how to manage their kids through their 30s at this point like it is it's debilitating right when you talk about this all time and there's a there's a guy it's guy named Mark divine talked about it's all time and I asked why I said you know where do because if you don't people don't know who Mark divine is still commander oh Mark divine yeah I know Mark forever he's amazing yeah I've worked with him and if you ask Mark you like okay where do leaders lead from he goes leaders lead from a point where it's never from the front they need to know that you can be led from the front but you want your team to pull you off the line and say listen you're ineffective here I need you to keep your eye doing all this other stuff because you have all this experience all of the sudden things going on so it's these pivots that we do the reason I asked is in a brick at mark is when we come into these situations and you have your values and you have someone else in your businesses values that you need that to do something right you like hey I've got this is you're in this division I really need this division to execute on this this and this however this division it's a pain in the ass it's always HR and HR is really ABC I will dial in that rock by the way I got HR oh good so when you're in that situation and you've got two different orbs that are above two different organizations in your work and they have different values under conflicting how do you as a leader say okay I know the value of Susie from HR and Billy from marketing whatever it is how do I need now through this because it's great that I have all these values it's wonderful awareness but how do I work through it so so sometime awareness points out the problems in danger areas and I give an example in one of my speeches of years ago where there were two people arguing over a budget it wasn't about the budget all right so the person I'll say on the left for my sort of person on the left you know grew up not feeling heard and they have this orientation of people need to be heard right and and it's very important in them to include all perspectives was their core value at the person on the right grew up dirt poor and was trained to like save every penny and not waste and so what was happening in this thing is that the the person on the left felt like this guy was not listening to her about you know the budget and he felt like she's just asking for more and more and more not willing to come so if they both knew this about themselves and they both knew this about the other person it's it's not gonna fix the problem but it's really going to help knowing that oh wow this is a danger area for us and I know this about her and so I'm gonna listen really carefully to what she says and I'm gonna say I hear you but what I need from you to come back with is if you want more stuff I need you to tell me the stuff that's not working and being willing to make some cuts so like this I just think with awareness of ourselves and others we can navigate around some of these things all of these personality tests and other way they are most helpful is in interpersonal communication problems there are just certain styles and things that are going to you know but heads on an issue and if you understand it it doesn't make it go perfectly but it allows you to like with some self awareness navigate that a little bit better yeah it lets you a little bit more prepared to be in the fight it's like oh hey we're we're gonna go ice skating oh yeah I probably should bring my ice skates okay I'm not gonna convince this person that not listening to them is okay right I'm just not like that that so if I want to win this battle I need to be like I actually really heard you there and I understand that however X it's in negotiations we talk about this all the time you want the other person to start here you go because they're not going to listen to anything you say because they've been practicing their spiel in their head for at least the time they've been in the room but also probably a day or two beforehand right they're not going to listen to anything until they off-guess their stuff their sponge is already full you've got to have them detox out their stones and okay I heard you as we were saying you're done taking notes and then then they're going to go to it my team is really clear about my better way orientation they know I like to make them better otherwise so I actually gave them a tool to negotiate with me which was when I give you something new to do you are allowed to come back with me with the entire list of things that I gave you already and tell me which one do you want me to cut or reprioritize right and so I'm actually giving them a tool to manage that I'm like telling them the whole thing because I realize that that is a problem that is a that is a downside of my my orientation there and we don't we don't label as good or bad this is it I just love efficiency that's that's who I am if you come to me in an ineffective manner yeah my brain's gonna pop but if you say take a moment to vomit this out for the next 20 minutes I'm like okay cool that's what we're doing and I yield it's a something I learned from a couple's counsel where men will sit there and free one for you guys they'll ask is this fixed it time or is it listening time if you're a guy 99.999999 99% of the time it's just to fuck up and listen and then if they want to see that it's not about the nail video right no what's this one oh watch it after this call just google it's not about the nail it is the it is the ultimate parody of the conversation you're talking about okay that works that works so when when we're talking about things that aren't this but are that when you're in orgs and you come into orgs that are completely dysfunctional and they have an understood their values yeah how long does it take to pivot things and implement some of these changes so let's let's be clear I'll flip in this I'm now I'm talking about company values not individual values of values the people because because you need both are ideally the leaders understand their values they're connected to values the company but then the company says hey look generally these are non-negotiables one of the things that we do we tend to interview all the people and and ask them similar questions in a different way but to kind of come at what do you value and what can't you stand in your colleagues right what is the what are the behaviors that this organization really values and what we always say is we're trying to solve the seed do gap the sorry the say do gap there are things that the organization is saying that it is completely not doing and so that's up to the leaders to you know either change what they're saying or or or or live that standard but then there's all these things that the organize the people in the organization really value and actually like even though it's not said and we're like look you need to elevate this to a value because people clearly and oftentimes a lot of it is teamwork they're like the best people here help each other and read across borders and do this stuff and the people that didn't work out and left were selfish and focused on themself and otherwise and we say okay well you need to take whatever version of that is and elevate it I worked with a hospital and as teaching hospital and and and they had nothing about teaching and they realized actually the best people here teach and learn at the same time and so they elevated that to a value very clearly like you need to be someone who learns and teaches to stand out here so you've got a book coming out and it talks about the compass and it does this when people get this and they want to implement this because I'm as you already know I love efficiency I love things that are proven I love things that are exceptionally tactical when someone takes the book is your book something that's simple okay clearly I need to know my values before I can push it out my company if I want a level up things I want to be you know if I want to do this and they get the book is this a sit down read it all what is the best way to implement your book what is so the book is a parable like Pat Lindsey I'm actually a blurb so you so and then it tells you at the end the framework that you've seen you watch someone go through this process in their life they're they're struggling with the big three they get coached on their values so people who like to watch versus be told so hopefully it sparks that interest you do the work you do it for yourself the first thing everyone's like I want to do this for my wife I want to I you know I've been an EO and YPO and the joke is like spouses and partners and companies hate when people go to events because they come home with all this homework and my thing is like do it for yourself get comfortable with it have someone else see the changes you're making and then if they're interested pull pull them into it right I really want to repeat that because that's super important because I've been guilty of this yeah yeah so we're talking about go to it do it yourself let them see the changes and that's I had a client in mind he's like I want my son to read more he's like what do I do I said as soon as you get home take whatever screen you have leave it in the front part of your house and then start reading in front of him and she's like cool when do I tell him to read I'm like you don't I go within a week and a half trust me that kids going to come over you should start reading yeah it's see do type of thing exactly I love you brought up they go to the events and then hey hey hey hey hey hey hey these personal development events yeah they in fact I started bringing my wife to them because you know then when if they don't see the speaker they didn't see the motive once they see the speaker then they're excited to like come right do it right so I'm just surprised you're still married since you drug your spouse with you okay I'm gonna go do this I'm surprised she still talks to you I told her it was a fashion conference you know okay so so you get the comfy couch is what you're saying yeah very comfortable couch to sleep on it's what you're saying so all right so people go in and they start doing this and they start making the changes how do you approach it how do you do it if you're you know if you're a founder and you're in this thing yeah how do you bring it to your team is it something like listen I found this guy Robert he was on the podcast I think he's great I read his book I bumped into him during the dog and I was whatever we're gonna hire him bring him in yeah so in a perfect scenario someone would would do this work they would communicate to their team hey I just actually did this work on my values here's what they are I want to walk you through them it sort of explains the things that I care about and then I get upset about and actually we're updating our company core values based on this clarity and we're gonna talk to you guys and get your feedback and I I think that the best leader you will be in our company is an authentic leader and if you're really interested in you know doing this work with I'd love to get you a copy of the book and you can buy the course if you want to but I'd love to see you do this work and and it's it's it's not that it's selfless but I like what we're trying to do is I think you'd be coming the best version of yourself is better for the company and and it actually pays dividends for you outside the company well I I write a lot my other book for on this company of this this concept of capacity building my books elevate and that capacity building is this holistic benefit for an organization if you help people get better overall the company gets the the work dividend of it and the people will thank you and remember that you help them become a better father partner sister husband that you help them get better with patience and time management and prioritization and things that are you no one we're not different people that work tell show me anyone that like hits news 12 times in the morning and can't get out of bed and it's really good with deadlines you know when they get to work it just doesn't it just doesn't happen so to me this is the ultimate thing that you could help your leaders do and I'm you know I'm working with some I think some really amazing leaders and cultures were like I want every person in my 200 person company to figure out their own personal core value I want this unlock for them and the deals those people will be loyal to those leaders for for decades I also think being open to that when you do bring these things and you do send people in your organization that if they come back and they're like hey you know what this isn't home for me honor that as much as you possibly can yeah this is do go you have to expect that you're going to lose some people and that's okay too because in the long run it's going to be better for your or it's going to be a better for everything that you're doing I 100% agree with you and those probably weren't your higher performance high as performers if they if they weren't aligned with your values and they were going against them you were probably having problems and the fact that they would opt out and go somewhere else in a positive way saves you a whole difficult discussion somewhere down the line if someone opts out of your organization because they're clear they're not very very valid as the biggest win that you could ever get from an eight sorry to say HR an HR standpoint or just the whole the whole thing yeah and I don't think people get that because finding good people that are talented that you've already got your systems around because as founders as owners and what we do we're like hey I've got this fire and I gotta let go of it because I understand that I can brute force myself to seven eight figures maybe but now I need other people to come in and help me out with the scaling of that you know okay this person does this this person does this but then now they're Susie and Susie discovered her core values that she doesn't want to be here anymore like take the take the little hit it's worth it take the little hit have them do that can you walk through one of the if there's something either for you or for a client that they discover their values just change it would just shatter it's a cool and it blue things up and they're like oh wow and on the both on the positive end and I get it where they're sitting so I can discover these core values that I actually you know I don't like HR because no one does and they're not they just screw this one but it's so it's interesting I think the reason why you don't HR like HR is probably buried in multiple core values I think in one you probably don't think it's efficient yeah yeah I'm not politically correct yeah anyway shape or far I don't I don't I don't right so you probably have a core value of say what you mean and you feel like everyone has to do all this window dressing and say stuff that they don't mean and right I mean it's it's visceral you know you know you know I'm the one who's a fart in that later there's just no way around it I don't know what you identify as I don't care about your pronoun it's it's relevant to me I'm happy for you if you identify as a penguin mausole tough to you and ever to put can we just get back to getting the shit done because we got shit to do because I don't care so as long as you're not affecting other human beings whatever just let's go I don't care what you do with your own cables and bits just let's rock and roll there's a guy we have we have stuff to do it's it's inefficient for me which is why HR is like I knew what we need to have the I'm like just no if someone's being wildly inappropriate and touching people then they don't work here anymore because you don't get to use human beings that's why my issue is with HR right I can tell when you see that sort of frustration again it is typically connected to multiple value violation I call it the supervillain like when there's three or four core value value violations and interaction either that interaction is a supervillain or the person or the thing is a supervillain so for me I actually when I figured this out I came back and made major changes to my company I cut our core values in half we we kind of we're growing and I was trying to be everything to everyone and I cut kind of relationships down I said look this is who we're going to be and if you want to be here for this great one of the things where it impacted our we had a core value of accountability in the company and what I was noticing as we grew was people were translating that to their accountable for doing the inputs but not the output which is totally not what we meant right they were like I did what I needed to do but the thing didn't work out so we ended up changing that core value to own it which is like look you own it you own the outcome you own that this is what we meant actually we didn't mean like you did the things that you can do like that there's a difference between you take no salesperson knows where they're going to sell all of their sales in a year they take they own a quota you know and they own that there's ambiguity with that so we made some of those changes and actually a lot of our early employees that were great moved on I think they identified that we were just I was just really clear there was another thing to we we'd rewarded inadvertently the companies do this all star utility players right they were because they were rewarded for jumping around and they were they were they were firefighters and all star you to so they would jump around from this to this and they would solve problems and I was like I need a gold glove third basement a gold glove second basement first basement or woman and I need fire preventers right so so it was our fault because we had rewarded those behaviors but at once the company had five or 10 million in revenue I didn't need a jack of all trades I needed and so if someone was just avoiding that it was like look we we are not valuing that anymore so like maybe you need to go back to a small company where that's that we were just very honest about what we were looking for well I think that's what you're talking about more than anything else we or get clarity on our values and then we do the honest conversations and who you were when you're under 10 million dollar company is not the same person you're going to be when you're over 10 million just like really were before you made your first million the whole company fundamentally changes as you step up and you love up but because it's just it's just the nature of the beast like I know with organizations that I run and they will listen to this so I apologize they know that when it comes to HR stuff they both talk to me I'm like just just go do it I will yield songs you don't go now one of my one of my partners his name is Darrell they come and they're like okay is this a Charles question is this a Darrell conversation in fact there's a Darrell conversation I go at that he because he speaks Charles I speak Darrell he speaks Charles so when we sit down we can shortcut it and we know those when we have those clarity about each other yeah there's a lot here that that it isn't just a simple hey I'm going to listen to a podcast and I'm going to go do this and oh that that was enough for me yeah there's a lot of work that goes into this yeah and it's not just a book it's also the test if people want to track you down if people want to connect with you and actually do this work for because listen I don't care if you don't know the business I think this is far more valuable for you as a human being for your partnerships for your relationships for your health for your own relationship with yourself I think is the vastly unbelievably important thing to do how do people track you down how do people connect with you what's the best way to go forward with yeah so look if they want to pick up the book and and you can read it in seven 80 minutes and decide oh yeah like there's something in it for me you can look up compass within wherever books are sold or compass dash within dot com is is on the site all of my other stuff robberglaser dot com glazr dot com that's where my newsletters are the books the courses consulting if you want help with this individually or for your organization but the book is meant to be a prompt and I think people either read it and they're like yeah I want to dive into this everything you need is in that book if you need more scaffolding you know we're here to we're here to help perfect and then if they want to connect directly with you is it linked in is it Instagram yeah I'm I'm I'm on linked in again go to robberglaser dot com contact it comes to my inbox I tell him I reply to everyone that emails to me either then some unsolicited sales pitch for something I don't need or use uh so I have that promised and I usually write back within 24 hours so uh reach out if you have any questions I I love that you do that I I am not that person thank you so much for coming on and sharing all this stuff I think people it'll help them pivot where they are in their lives and it'll fundamentally create a radical change especially as we walk into the new year unlocking what your values are I I can't imagine doing anything else more important than this yeah thank you charzana as you said if you're setting up goals and stuff for the year like aligning those two values will make it so much more meaningful so my my goal is to help a million people figure out their core values I hope we can get a get a few from this audience but thank you for having me absolutely that's a wrap on another episode of the proven podcasts clarity beats chaos values beat vibes stop reacting to start deciding the leaders who win know who they are what they stand for and what they'll walk away from remember if your decisions aren't anchored in real values they're just noise pretending to be strategy