Lord Falconer, Heledd Fychan MS, Ben Maguire MP, Dame Penny Mordaunt

BBC Sounds Music Radio Podcasts Hello and welcome to Stanley Arts in the South London borough of Croydon. This beautiful building, long known as Stanley Halls, was gifted to the community of South Norwood by the inventor and industrialist William F. Stanley and his wife Eliza in 1903. And above us on the stage is the motto, Justice Liberty Science, principles which remain at the heart of the venue's civic purposes, political, cultural, and environmental, well over a century after they were inscribed. On our panel, Dame Penny Mordent is a former Conservative Cabinet Minister who has served as Defence Secretary, International Development Secretary and Leader of the House of Commons. Penny is a force's child and indeed a force's adult. Not only was her father a paratrooper but she was a Navy reservist herself and has also been an honorary captain affiliated to the UK's Mine Hunter Squadron and it should therefore have been perhaps no surprise that she was so adept at handling a sword during the King's coronation. Alongside Penny on the panel on the other side is Lord Charlie Faulkner, Lord Faulkner of Thornton, a Labour peer and barrister who's held the offices of Lord Chancellor and Justice Secretary and as the Cabinet Minister responsible for constitutional affairs he oversaw major judicial reforms including the creation in 2009 of the UK Supreme Court. He is currently trying to shepherd assisted dying legislation through the House of Lords and what appears to be something of an uphill task and he was also famously, not that it necessarily matters, a flatmate of Tony players. Heleth Wachen is a finance spokesperson for Plaid Cymru and a member of the Senneth or Parliament of Wales representing the South Wales Central Region and Herbryth also covers the Welsh language and culture portfolios. Heleth is also chair of a cross-party group on arts and health set up to raise awareness of the benefits of engaging in the arts. She grew up on the Isle of Anglesey and studied history and politics at Trinity College Dublin. And Ben McGuire is the final member of our panel, Liberal Democrat MP for North Cornwall. His brief for the party covers the Attorney General as his shadow and he is the shadow of that role and he's also a member of the Commons Home Affairs Committee and Ben became an MP just two years ago gaining North Cornwall from the Conservatives. Ben grew up in Cornwall and studied at University College London. He is a qualified solicitor and worked for an international law firm before becoming an MP Croydon. Indeed South Norwood if you prefer please welcome your any questions panel. And our first question comes from Helen Ead Helen. Hello, who is losing the war in Iran right now? As of Friday evening there's still no resolution to the US Israeli war on Iran. One crew member from a US fighter jet which crashed over Iran has we are told been rescued. At this point as we are speaking we don't know about the fate of the other crew member. The Strait of Hormuz remains impossible for most shipping though driving up prices around the world as we all know. Dame Penny Mordent who is losing the war in Iran right now? Well thank you and obviously I have all our thoughts so with the missing US service personnel who unfortunately has not been retrieved. It is a reminder that even the most capable Air Force these things are done at tremendous risk. I would say we've heard a lot in the press about British citizens feeling the pinch from the knock on effects of the Straits of Hormuz not being open. We've heard a lot of casualty numbers on both sides. What we haven't heard a lot about is China and I think that you can view this conflict as a proxy war on China. If you look at the President of the United States foreign policy what he's done elsewhere, Venezuela, Greenland it has been about the security of the United States but also resources and in particular oil. Although he's got some stated aims to ebb away at the Iranian regime's capabilities to do harm to sponsor terrorism to produce a nuclear weapon which is definitely on their agenda. This situation also causes disproportionate harm to China. It can't trade its way out of a desperate economic situation that it's in and it also takes about 90% of Iran's oil. So I think that although it's you can be forgiven for not knowing exactly what the White House objectives are here I think they're wider than the region and I think this is part of a bigger foreign policy we all want this to end. We want it to end particularly in the UK because of the impact it's having on cost of living. Huge instability for business which will lose tremendous amounts of revenues but what I would say is it also needs to end in the right way. And as things stand let me put the question to you Lord Faulkner, Charlie Faulkner who is losing the war in Iran right now? Because we don't know what the aims of the American president are it's very difficult to tell whether he's winning. He is also by his language and by his approach turning off a lot of people like myself who are incredibly well-intentioned to America to hear the United States president say to Iran yesterday they should be bombed back to the Stone Age where they belong is not good for the people who support America. I am as repelled as everyone by the conduct of the Iranian government but I do not think that an American president should be talking like this. What is happening in the world? The allies together who are against the things that we stand for, Russia, China, Iran, North Korea, they are being bound closer and closer together by what's happening. And those who support the values that everybody in this room holds dear are being left bewildered by what the leader of the free world is doing. So I don't feel that in a long term struggle between two parts of the world that we are winning at all I hope that something more will emerge to indicate that we do win. Ben McGuire for the Liberal Democrats. I completely agree with Charlie I cannot for the life of me see what the aims and objectives of President Trump's illegal invasion of Iran is. We have got as we all unfortunately know by now a megalomaniac in the White House and he seems hell bent on insulting his allies. The question I think originally from Helen was who are the losers from this war? I would say Ukraine are the losers from this war. Obviously lots of attention again is being diverted from their war effort against the barbaric President Putin of Russia but the children that have died in Iran we've seen it on our TV screens it's absolutely shocking, it's horrible, President Trump seems to be working hand in glove with Benjamin Netanyahu another war criminal. Well Israel is really strongly discusing that. Just to give them their point of view, their response because they're not here, it's my job to do that for people who are not here. Benjamin Netanyahu denies a war criminal he would I'm putting his point of view forward he would say that Israel has a right to defend itself and that is what it has been doing. And then when we look at here at home who are the big losers? The big losers are my constituents that all of you in this room who are paying now through the nose for their petrol to fill up their tanks. We've already seen Labour's job tax with the rise in national insurance killing our small businesses which is the spine of our economy in the United Kingdom. Now we're seeing people unable to afford to pay their fuel, they're unable to pay their gas and electricity costs. This war is having a massive impact on our country and again I just go back for the life of me I can't see why President Trump has launched this illegal invasion. Thank you very much. Hello. Hello to my friend for Applied Family. What is your position on who is losing the war in Iran that's Helen's question. Well I think it's an interesting proposition because obviously in war there are often more losers, very very few winners because it should be a last resort and I think the recklessness of which Trump has approached this, the recklessness of both the US and Israel to go against international law is something that should be condemned by everyone because the losers are very clearly the people in Iran who obviously have suffered a brutal regime which was horrific and of course we should be united in opposing that but international law also needs to be respected and we've seen over a hundred experts in international law writing today expressing profound concern about the very serious violations against international law by both the US, Israel but also Iran and that's where the focus should be obviously as Ben was saying yes our constituents are losing out energy bins are high but those children and people in Iran who are losing their lives right now and there's no plan by Trump it's clearly no Trump. Penny Mordens, two things one you said the war has to end in the right way I just I just wonder what you meant by that and also do you agree with this seeming consensus that there is a megalomaniac in the White House? So I think you you need to look at Trump's foreign policy if you want to know why he's doing these things and I think they're as I outlined they're wider than the things that are being reported. I do think we need to bear in mind that this conflict has started and it's clearly started without the president talking to his allies and all the things that you would want and expect but we should also remember that Iran has been attacking us in this country for a very long time. The number the average number of attacks on our shipping going through the Straits of Hormuz every year is about 500 and every week we have a major cyber attack coming from Iran so it's not as if this country has been incredibly passive and they are clearly continuing to strive to to gain a nuclear weapon. So you're supportive of President Trump's position? So I think if you're America if you're America you have to think about these things my personal view is that all the things that have been done to date to dissuade Iran from continuing down a military nuclear path have not worked. The reason why I say it has to end in the right way is that some very good organizations like the Atlantic Council have war-gained what Trump has done before he set out doing it and if we leave this situation where you have a less experienced more radical regime and you haven't reached some kind of agreement with them right at the point where the population is rising up what you will have is a massacre. So having started this I think the president has a responsibility we all want it to end quickly but make sure that it ends well. That's a disastrous piece of advice because what Penny is saying is keep on going more and more violence what will the consequence be we should stop now it seems to me because the consequences of what's going on of course Penny is right Iran is an is a vile government that has been doing terrible things not just to the Iranian people but right across the region and to and in Britain but the mistake that Trump has made is bomb and bomb and bomb that'll stop them having nuclear weapons will it make them think if they survive we've got to have nuclear weapons now to stop this ever happening again. So I think it's a mistake to say keep on going. Just quickly, Helen. Yeah I'm just a minute to think that Penny thinks that Trump has a plan when it comes to foreign policy because he seems to change his mind every minute. Well let's put that to a point to it is possible folks you know I study philosophy there are lots of possible worlds that the whole of the United States might be utterly insane this is possible but I don't think so and I think it is quite frankly you know this is this is serious stuff and we have to we have to just think what is actually behind what the president is doing. If we don't he's name calling he's being childish he's name calling against world leaders. Let me from one second here. He might be potty meld but that but that doesn't mean that he doesn't have a plan behind what he's doing. Let me chip in so we can interrupt because there's a question. There is a very clear plan. The next question we're going to take really quickly the next question will take this now because this is from Lisa Rea Lisa. Hello should the king and queens visit to the USA still go ahead? It just it just continues the debate I wasn't trying to interrupt the debate. Ben Maguire. Absolutely not hopefully I'm clear on that. I honestly cannot think when President Trump has done his utmost to insult this country I lost two friends one former colleague and friend in Afghanistan and the way he described our brave troops in Afghanistan was utterly disgusting and to send our king to the United States on a state visit is absolutely appalling. I cannot believe the government have decided to do that at this time when he's calling our military our navy toys he's calling another member of the Commonwealth the 51st state he's throwing insults as Halif has said left right and center and I just think it's utterly appalling that the government have decided to reward this behavior and as I said earlier Trump I'm afraid is a megalomaniac and if you reward that behavior with a full state visit you are going to suffer the consequences and the consequences we've seen already today President Trump touting that visit oh King Charles is coming to see me at the White House he's coming to the United States he'll now wear that as a badge of pride and I just cannot see how we as a country are benefiting from that. So Charlie Faulkner are you embarrassed given the things that the president has said about the leader of your party and the prime minister of the United Kingdom most disparaging terms for your the government that you support to be sending the king and queen to Washington? I disagree with Ben I think the king and queen should go the reason I think that they should go recognizing that all that Ben has said is right that it's terrible the way that we've been insulted and also the king may be insulted not personally but if the prime minister is badmouthed if some of our men who died in Afghanistan are badmouthed if our navy are badmouthed that will be embarrassing for the king and the queen but the reason I think the king and queen should go is first of all it's honoring a relationship that has lasted over 250 years and secondly I think that our monarchs both the immediate predecessor of the king the queen and the king have been absolutely terrific as heads of state and for them to go and set an example even if the president badmoutes our prime minister our armed forces and those who died our head of state sets an example of dignity and courage and represents our country so I'm for him going I don't believe we should be pandering to the US president at this time clearly he's broken international law with how he's approached Iran I think by sending the king and queen there it's almost an endorsement of breaking international law and I don't think it's right at this at this time we should be focused on strengthening our links with Europe I think we need to be honest the brexit has been a complete and utter disaster that it's weakened that it's weakened our position as we see the EU putting more focus on defense and we're trying desperately to get to the table and I think our priority now should be Europe and we need to strengthen that relationship not trying to cling on to something that frankly does not exist that special relationship is broken and we have to admit that and be honest to ourselves Penny Mordent is this as Heleth Fahen argues an endorsement of an illegal war this trip for the king no I don't and I I think that this situation can only be helped by deploying their majesties I I think they are both remarkable people that quite often make the difference in particular situations so I hope they go I hope they have a good visit and I hope that with regard to the president and bad feelings and bad words that they they help people move on from that and hopefully recover a better dialogue but I would also say that this visit is not just about the president it is actually about the the people of our respective nations too and whilst understandably there is huge focus about what goes on in the White House and huge focus about what goes on in Downing Street the special relationship is more than that it is about our armed forces it is about business it is about our philanthropic sector it is about our science base it's about so much more than that of which the king is interested in all of those things and it will be I'm sure part of the visit so I I hope it goes ahead I think the only thing that might prevent it and and should prevent it is if the conflict escalates considerably further well if you're listening and you want to have your say don't forget any answers you can call Anita Anand on 03700 100444 lines open at 12 30 p.m on Saturday or you can send a message on WhatsApp that's any answers with Anita Anand 03700 100444 let's go to our next question which comes from Beverly Fawkes Jones Beverly hello with recent events at Clapper and what can be done to deal with the epidemic of shoplifting Beverly thank you very much just to explain for those who may have missed the 16 age girls were arrested after two separate incidents of antisocial behavior which the Metropolitan Police says was fueled by online trends in southwest London 100 officers I gather were called to Clapham High Street on Tuesday when young people reported to be accessing shops and a restaurant and this has also happened in other parts of not just London but other parts of the country Birmingham for one in something that I think is being known as linkups and Charlie Faulkner Lord Faulkner what do you what what can be done to deal with this the police can make it clear that shoplifting is a priority what happened in Clapham was terrifying it really makes people feel that there's absolute lawlessness industry if you went to Clapham High Street and saw um Marks and Spencer's literally being plundered by gangs of views you think law and order had broken down and you would be right and the people I blame are sitting over there Dame Penny Morden and Ben McGuire are the two people to blame for this individually well I think probably seems like Ben has got Ben has got as an answer to this that in 2015 when the coalition government was in politics the liberal democrats and the conservatives I think Ben presumably was an inappies at the time and therefore could be excused Penny however was a member of the government they introduced an act of parliament called the criminal justice and court act and it introduced the concept of quote low value shoplifting and low value shoplifting is where you steal something under 200 pounds who's in power now it's power now it's labor yeah but this is happening under labor producing low value shoplifting gave the idea that if you stole things that are worth 100 200 worth under 200 pounds or less the consequence was there would be no price to pay why did you do it what was the consequence well we didn't do that funnily enough so if you listen to Charlie no if you listen to Charlie you would think that it was decriminalised that it was the free for all that people are allowed to do that it wasn't decriminalised you could still have a custodial sentence you could still face heavy heavy fines you could still do all of those things what it did was it enabled the person who was being accused to plead guilty without going to court it didn't do anything else but the court then you had the all you get you could be a fixed penalty no you could still be very heavily fined multiples of yourself and you could still face a custodial sentence however however the message that people that I do accept that people got from that was that police did not enforce the law and as a consequence shopkeepers themselves stopped reporting in fact I think now the the British retail consortium thinks that it's a it's about three percent of of these crimes that are reported however there is something happening at the moment in that it the increase over the last 12 months of this kind of activity has gone up by across the country 20% and in London it's got up by 53% and to get back to the question you've got to do many things but what worked in my city was ensuring that anyone that was involved in that in Portsmouth um had consequences for their actions so literally people were rounded up um you had the proper police response and I think London needs more police officers to do that and there were consequences and if they were children or young people they were frog marched back to their parents home and they were also the school was informed as well and for each one they were followed up okay and that's what stops it happening next Friday night as well let's bring in Ben McGuire um what's what the question was what can be done to deal with the epidemic of shoplifting and penny wardens given an answer there do you think that's a good idea or do you have an alternative I think um under this labor government it would make a nice change just to see a police officer in our local area I was in my local high street recently and people were taking selfies with their local police constable because they're so rarely seen unfortunately under both pennies conservative government and now with this labor government we've seen a massive underinvestment in our frontline community policing we as liberal democrats have been calling for much more accessible community policing having police desks in places like supermarkets libraries I've been pushing in my local area to reopen the front desk so that people actually have confidence again that if they report a crime like shoplifting it will be investigated it will be followed up on because at the moment I know people in my north korea constituency who aren't even reporting um things like shoplifting or things like rural thefts I've got lots of farmers that don't report theft of very expensive agricultural equipment because they don't feel that it will be taken seriously they don't feel that the police have been resourced properly enough and I must say my local police are very hardworking they're excellent but they're not given the funding they're not given the resourcing both by pennies conservative government and now very sadly and very disappointingly by charlie's labor government yet again they're under investing in frontline community policing the ladies question is what we need I appreciate that you want to come back on that charlie frokner but we haven't heard from hilleth vachen yet for applied comrade no and I think community policing is essential we don't have the devolution of justice in Wales we'd like that but it does mean that we have to make up the shortfall and actually 57 percent of funding for things like community policing comes from the Welsh government funds even though it's not devolved because we see its importance but I speak to our police officers I speak to our PCSOs and they are terrified yeah the community support officers and they acknowledge that they're under resource that they're not able to do the job that they want to be able to do and they're also very honest about the impact austerity has had because there are yet less youth clubs less opportunities for them to engage there have been cuts made to programs where police used to go into schools and to meet with young people in their place in their community so when that happens is it any wonder then that we're seeing things disintegrates to this extent because there isn't that relationship with your community police officers and community support officers in the way that there should be if it was a properly funded service yeah charlie frokner very briefly very briefly this is this you want to see huge variance across the country I mean I'm from Hampshire we've had a massive increase in police officers and we also our new chief constable and the crime commissioner there don't hesitate to detain minors a lot of this is about local policies and we're fortunate we've got a conservative police crime commissioner and they've made those changes well let's put let's put that point and another point I want to put to charlie frokner on behalf of the government essentially and that is not only this panel and making these points that the boss of m&s and the retail director of m&s marks and Spencer is calling for a crackdown on retail crime saying it's awful what's happening in their stores they're beset by problems of shoplifting and and violence against their staff yeah what is the government doing about that I mean they're they're writing to the home secretary well the government's not writing to the home secretary but they did my expensive when you've got one of the biggest retailers in the country writing to the home secretary saying the law's not being enforced it's it's pretty bad isn't it well I mean I think it's very bad and I think it is a big problem I mean just a side swipe at ben which is just to complain about the fact that we reduced expenditure on police well we've tried to increase it ben was you what you what you you you you you you you you you've reduced it hang on well he's not made the point yet you can't respond to it until we've heard it what is it the last time the liberal democrats were in power they introduced austerity and that was where the biggest cuts in policing came so I think you've got it you've got to recognize that that just being just being in opposition does not allow you to make these sort of utterly empty promises of money the key thing I think is that the police have got to really focus on shoplifting because it's undermining people's confidence in law and order if they don't do that and it means actually focusing on it as a big problem then people's confidence in law and order will absolutely go through the floor I promise Ben Maguire a right of reply so I feel he should have it now he's heard the central point you're making it my local police force steven and cormor have seen a cut charlie under your labour government so I'm afraid to say that is a resourcing issue so I take point we've on you there the other thing I'd like to just quickly add though is young people in my area have found it harder and harder to get a job when I was their age I did a paper round that was really good for my self-esteem it gave me confidence I've got lots of people that work in the hospitality industry lots of young people getting their first job in pubs and restaurants we've seen small hospitality businesses hammered under this slightly we might we might come to that maybe but let's take a question now from Jenny Marshall our next question and your reminder you're listening to any questions on BBC Radio 4 and Jenny Marshall has a question for us good evening panel is it lunacy to send a rocket sightseeing around the moon lunacy lunacy I see what you did there Jenny I see what you did there this is NASA's Artemis mission which as of now on Friday evening is on track for the dark side of the moon and he'll add Vachen of Plaid Cymru finance spokesperson what do you think I mentioned that because of the costs I'm not sure you've got the billions required to send a rocket round the moon yourself but I'm not sure the Welsh government have that budget I'll be honest with you is this lunacy is this lunacy I I don't know how many of you stayed up to watch it but there's the child in me that really enjoyed seeing that space exploration to see a woman there that we had a diverse crew was something that I thought was really welcoming but I do think it's that question you know we have to look at where there have been some development in space the benefits that have been in terms of satellite and so on it helps us monitor in terms of disasters with climate change and so on with global communications so it's not all in terms of let's get to the moon there have been explorations that have really benefited us to really understand what we need to be doing as I said in terms of response to climate change I think when it comes to costs of course I think the international corporation has been something that's welcome I think when it's just up to billionaires trillionaires that do it just for fun there's a huge difference there but looking at what the benefits are that are more globally is something that I think the focus is interesting. Jenny do I take it from the tone of your question that you think this is lunacy? Definitely definitely most definitely and I think it's Donald Trump way of saying one up to China. Right that's a very interesting point thank you very much Penny Morden do you think it's lunacy to send a rocket as Jenny puts it sightseeing around the moon? I have to declare an interest I'm a member of the British astronomical association I'm a space nut so I'm going to say that this is an important mission and I think as well as the science as well as the there will be economic benefits from them I mean just on you know previous missions that we that have taken place there's so much that has been learned so much that's been able to be applied back to our everyday lives here on earth. To the point of China is it not actually about getting to minerals on the moon and sticking a flat planting that stars and shapes for them? I think way down the line there will be questions of that ilk I think there is a security issue here as well I'm afraid the the sorts of things we we worry about and the threats that we're we're talking about earlier space is involved in in that sphere as well so it is about trying to get ahead different nations trying to compete with each other on who can get to technical answers first but I do think these things enable the arc of human progress to bend towards the good and just listening to the incredibly brave astronauts actually on the on the radio the some of the things that they were saying about how it changes their perspective looking back on earth and thinking about all the things that are happening here at the moment and I remember speaking to a French astronaut actually who was looking back at us and just thinking about the environment he saw the planet as a spaceship itself with just all the resources that we have here and how limited and fragile it is. Well famously the very first mission to go around the back of the moon Apollo 8 produced that stunning earth rise picture that prompted some say that in some respects the environmental movement that we have now Lord Faulkner Charlie Faulkner of Labour. I completely agree with Penny I find I mean I'd rather disagree with your question I think it is you agree with Penny I agree with Jenny I don't agree with Jenny I agree with Penny because I think it is I think it is absolutely terrific I think it is terrific because as one of the people in the the moonshot said humanity shows once again what it's capable of doing it's not surprising that we call anything that is really ambitious a moonshot because it shows humanity coming together and doing something. I was 14 years old no I wasn't I was 17 years old when man stood on the moon for the first time and I remember thinking this is what the world can do and will do more and more things. I suppose the question is is that the base use of 70 billion? Well America are paying for it NASA is paying for it they've got 70 million I am really impressed that they're doing it I'm completely behind it did you hear the person describing seeing the whole of the globe on the radio this morning did you see Rebecca Morrell weeping as the rocket went up and I was just as moved she's the science editor of the BBC and it was deeply moving and I was moved and I completely felt what she felt. Ben Maguire of the Liberal Democrats I think I think if Becky were here she would say that she is neutral but she was it was an exciting moment to watch something like that happen in front of you just to defend her position Ben Maguire. I don't think I'm quite as sentimental as the other panelists about this obviously if it does advance science and it advances our understanding of space I think that's important but I must agree with Jenny to some extent that this does feel like yet another pet project of President Trump and I did come across a quote from President Nixon who isn't actually one of the most well thought of presidents of our times but on the moon landing he said for one priceless moment in the history of man all the people on this earth are truly one united in pride and prayer. President Trump said nobody comes close America doesn't just compete we dominate and the whole world is watching so I must admit Jenny it does feel a little bit like President Trump's pet project and possibly there are better things that 70 billion dollars could buy in the huge cost of living crisis that Americans are facing at the moment. Who wants to still defend the mission despite that? I will happily I mean I think we I I'm not really here to defend President Trump and there's many things that he does and certainly says that I disagree with but I think describing this incredible achievement and it's part one of a project to put a base on the moon as I think we're getting distracted from achievements of humanity and brilliant scientists because of what people feel about a particular president so there's a lot of good in this folks. I I I we should not attack America for absolutely everything because we find the attitudes of the current president completely difficult. We have disagreed with America in the past we disagreed on Vietnam we disagreed on the beginning of the Falklands we disagreed very strongly on Sewers but we remained aware that we shared values with many American people so don't throw the baby out with the bath. It's also built on collaborative science between many nations as well that's why the Brits had tears in their eyes this morning. Thank you very much you're listening to any go we have some applause for your positions so there you go. Just a reminder you're listening to any questions here on BBC Radio 4 where it's Stanley Arts in south Norwood in London on the panel Lord Charlie Faulkner Lord Faulkner Labour peer Helef Vachen who has applied Cymru's finance spokesperson Ben McGuire Liberal Democrat Shadow Attorney General and Dame Penny Morden former Conservative cabinet minister. We are in Edinburgh next week Alex Forsythe will be back if you want to come along to that do get in touch with us and you go to the Any Questions website and there are don't forget elections coming up on the 7th of May as you may know and just to be clear over the next few weeks we will be hearing representatives of all the main parties across the different programmes that Any Questions is broadcasting just in case you're wondering we only have a panel of four so we're spreading that out. Now let's go to our next question which comes from Katie Domaine. Hello. Hello. One in eight young people are out of work what should be done to create opportunities? One in eight young people are out of work so what should be done to create opportunities and actually I think it's gone up because our figures have 920,000 people not in education employment or training in the UK a year ago and it actually seems to have got that was one in eight I think it's actually gone up a bit since then I mean the number out of work has gone up so let's go to Charlie Faulkner first Lord Faulkner. Well I think it is a very very major problem if you don't work when you are young and the years go by and you never get work then you become very very unaccustomed to working we have got to do everything we possibly can to avoid there being a youth unemployment crisis as there has been in the past I think the three things that we need to be looking at is our tax incentives for people to employ young people secondly making it much more attractive for people to become apprentices and thirdly and this might be unpopular we need to look at perhaps maintaining the difference between the youth minimum wage rate and the and the and the adult minimum wage rate in order to ensure that young people are given a helping hand into work we have to do something about it you're right to identify as a big crisis. Hello Faulkner. I think we've badly let down young people in this country and the impact we're seeing of those young people not in education actually additional learning needs at the moment is a huge issue in Wales and across the United Kingdom because of lack of investment in ensuring that there is the right support in our schools mental health in young people is a crisis point and I don't think it's any coincidence that from austerity a lot of those vital services in our communities I was talking about youth provision earlier all these things were getting people out of the house socialising giving opportunities but also developing skills and confidence which are vital in order to be able to gain employment or start your own company and unless we reverse that unless we start investing in those services then I really worry about the future for young people I mentioned earlier that Brexit has been a disaster it has impacted young people disproportionately as well and I really do fear I know of so many young people who tell me that they feel like the forgotten generation that nobody is looking out for them or caring for them and there's lots of policies focused on older people but we seem to demonise young people without thinking well why are there no opportunities and should be creating them so a couple of times this evening you've invoked Brexit and austerity as core underlying problems and Lord Faulkner's nodding here as well on behalf of the Conservatives Dame Penny Mordant how do you respond to that? Well look can I answer the first question first? It's entirely reasonable for you to point out to me sitting in the chair that I should be enforcing the sticking to the question and not asking other questions but I think the points are joined aren't they but the question was one in eight young people are out of work what should be done to help create opportunities. So since the first labour budget we heard a lot about the the High Con national insurance contributions which clobbered a lot of the jobs that were the first run on the job ladder and also usually had training attached to them so so they went with those national insurance contribution hikes but what you don't hear a lot about as well is what happened in the charity sector at the same time because they were also hit by those national insurance hikes and a lot of the employability support because a lot of those people are some of them are quite far away from the job market some of them got big challenges whether it's mental health whether it's learning disability or behavioural disabilities and the a lot of the really great support that got those people into work has now gone in my former constituency the employability schemes that were all in place helping people with autism to learn how to fix computers or people with Down syndrome getting into the hospitality sector they've all gone and that is a direct result of the national insurance contribution hikes. The only way you create jobs for people to get into is to enable business to do that and if you hit them too hard with taxes it's not just the national insurance contributions it's now the business rate hikes 70% increase for some businesses it's it's catastrophic and it's hitting those sectors I'm sure Ben will say about his area hospitality those sorts of trades are really being devastated. So I do want to come to Ben McGuire but there are a couple of things you want to say on Brexit but hang on the points you've made there I mean Hilleth Fuchin and others would say what they date further back and they date back to the austerity of your government and on the hospitality point one of the key challenges for hospitality is the lack of labour coming in after Brexit so they are both relevant to this. So we've got some particular challenges because of what happened in Covid but prior to that we got four million people into work one million of which has a disability the kinds of conditions that we described we did a tremendous amount to build that I'm still patron of the organisation I talked about in my constituency something I've worked long and hard on and it is devastating to see it ended in that way we have got to support business there is a sort of disconnect I think that has happened in this country between people understanding what the business community is doing if we if we don't support it we don't get the revenues in we won't have the opportunities for young people to to get into those works and just on as several people have mentioned austerity austerity is a response to a devastating financial situation we're getting very close to being in real difficulty in this country we're spending more on welfare support now than we're gaining in in income tax and this is unsustainable it is going to is going to have to change but those are those are not choices they're choices about actually trying to balance the books and stop this country as it is at the moment spending vast sums of money on managing debt as opposed to investing in in education in healthcare in our defence and security which we so vitally thank you very much spend require of the liberal democrats presumably you agree with penny mordant as your party was in government with the conservators I was I think at university during the coalition years and I would say I would say that austerity was completely and utterly wrong and I totally accept that so what should be done to hand create opportunities and when I speak to young people across my constituency they are absolutely despairing because they had so much hope that this labor government would come in and they would transform the terrible statistics which I think we heard earlier about young people that aren't in education aren't in training and we've seen the labor government prevaricate again and again about the European youth mobility scheme I had so many friends that benefited from that scheme worked abroad studied abroad across the European Union why Charlie does your government not go to the European Union and say we want to go back into this scheme we want to give our young people those opportunities in training in jobs it'll be good for our economy it'll be good for our young people instead they're hammering the small businesses that are employing our young people that are training our young people they don't seem to have any plan as hella has said to train the speech and language therapist we so desperately need in our schools to tackle the sin crisis they don't seem to have any plan to tackle the shortage of carers that look after our relatives they don't seem to have any plan for apprenticeships apprenticeships is such an important career path for our young people and yet this labor government just do not seem to be investing in our young people and giving them the opportunities they so deserve I think quite a while ago you asked Charlie Faulkner a question so let's hear how he responds to all of those charges I mean first of all I don't think anybody could deny that brexit had really reduced the economic position of the country and that is down to penny warden's government so it was a very very very big mistake secondly the way that ben talks he just sprays money everywhere and we have got to improve particularly the fate of young people because our future depends on young people and we should wait a minute we should be getting much much closer to the european union but we've voted to leave the european union under what does much closer mean it means we've got a custom union not customs union not single market it's not freedom of it means they don't know what i mean it's getting rid of as much friction as possible in the trading relationship and making it as easy as possible to trade but unfortunately the country voted to leave the european unit and we've got to accept and respect that you can't just change it ben feels so easy about just ditching everything the liberal democrats did in government saying i unreservedly condemn it why should we trust this lot with government ever again if they simply ditch what they did when they were there we were there was a person that supported the iraq war hang on hello we'll have you and then we'll come back to you ben maguire and penny warden's but hello hello the problem with labor is that they don't have a plan and they're not willing to call out that brexit has been a disaster i am i think it was a disaster we can't go back but there's no plan we know that there needs to be well we let's create but hang on the question was will this hold on the question just to be clear and that we can relate this what should be done to help create opportunities for young people and work is this your answer rejoining the e you and if so how why would that i think it's part of it because it would help our economy and create more opportunities what we're looking at at the moment is and we have to remember austerity is a political choice it is an approach there are ways to invest differently because the situation i'm seeing in my community is the normalization of food punks since austerity began we've seen an increase in child poverty and rates set to increase no plan to decrease and that's all happening under uk labor government and under a labor government in wales and frankly to see no government have a plan to really help and support our young people is disaster and we need to see a change of government in wales and frankly people have been let down by voting labor on the uk level times rattling along so brief responses if you don't mind ben maguire then penny mortage and then we'll squeeze in one more charlie has shown again labor's very confused attitude to the european union the liberal democrats have been clear we would rejoin a bespoke customs union which shows it would give 25 billion pounds to our economy which we could invest in the training of our young people it's going to be brief penny more very quickly to bring everyone up to date on the brixit debate clearly the country had a decision between two perfectly rational positions stay in with all the benefits of membership the 300 million for the n8 or just uh or enable you to trade with other parts of the world both the plausible positions what's not a plausible position is the worst of all worlds where you're outside and you don't have the benefits of membership but you're still having to be a rule taker i'm sorry to us you gave us no i don't have time we've got so i'm sorry i want to squeeze in one more question we're going to be really quick and that question is going to come from ian gillett ian hello what are the panel's suggestions for an appropriate gift for the king to give to president trump gotta be brief charlie forkner what a quest i think it would probably be the center forward shirt in arsenal football club at this particular moment thank you very much penny mordance the appropriate gift for the king to give president trump i think he should send him a photograph of the beautiful stained glass window um in a church in chichester commemorating billy fisk who was a us uh airman who was killed during the second world war but is still honored and treasured uh by the people of this country thank you very much ben maguire i think the king should give president trump a book about the history of our uh military cooperation and our military alliances very very long long history that we've had with the united states and remind him just how serious his insults and his horrible language is to this country in our relationship with the u.s and just almost in a word heleth forkner a simple way to international uh to understand international law and perhaps the demi's guide on how to be a president okay thank you all very much indeed thank you to lord charlie forkner heleth forkner dame penny mordant ben maguire thank you for being with us next week we are in edinburgh there are tickets available you can go to the radio for any questions website for details the week after that we're in hussex in west sussex if you would like to host any questions in the future please send us an email with details of your venue to any questions at bbc.co.uk don't forget any answers you can call anita anand on o three seven hundred one hundred four four four lines open at 12 30 p.m on saturday or you can send a message on whatsapp but thank you very much to stanley arts our venue here thank you to the panel thank you to our audience for being with us here on any questions on bbc radio for this um on this edition and that is all from us right now goodbye