‘Industry’ S4 Premiere Breakdown: Cranking the Email Up a Peg

Hello, welcome back to the Prestige TV podcast. Me and I'm Joyner Robinson. I'm Rob Mahoney. I'm Jody Walker. Oh my God, Jody's here. Hell yes. Hey you guys. Thanks for having me. Oh my God, we're so thrilled to have you here for industry season four. I should say thank you for having us since you are the rating queen of covering industry. Absolutely. You know, you have to wonder a little bit what it says about you within your company that it's like, well, no matter what, we're getting Jody on the industry coverage. Sex, drugs, and Harper. We're bringing Jody in. They're worst things to be known for, frankly. This is how I want to be known. I just wonder what it says, but I love this show so much. I love it so much. I'm having the best time and the worst time as always. We're here to talk about industry season four, episode one, but we also want to do sort of quickly before we get into that, we're going to do a little like season three mini lookback. Some of us did rewatches on varying speeds to get caught back up. No need to name names here, but like. If you know, you know, though. If you know, you know, who may have rewatched allegedly seasons allegedly at two times ish speed just to get that Harper high. You know, I stand in front of the screen. I chew my gum really fast and I just watch it play. But no, no baseball bat, no Eric, Tau sort of pacing back and forth. No, that's for end of season. That's when I'm good and mad. I got it. That makes sense. Okay. Basically like the season, the show industry has changed so much over the seasons and I think it made a biggest change in season three and then a huge change here in season four. So we want to talk a little bit about like season three and the moves it made in season three to prepare us for this kind of radical shift. If you go back and rewatch season one of industry, it like bears very little resemblance to what we're watching here in season four. And I'm not mad about it. I love a reinvention of a show, but I just think it's interesting to think about how we got here and what it's retaining from its original form and then what it's sort of pushing in new directions. So quickly I want to, I mean, I've never talked to Rob about industry at all, Jodie, I've heard you talk about it, but Rob, quick question to start with you. For season three, we added like a flashback structure. There was Yasmin's dad's mysterious death. There was some sort of like experimental directorial style in the finale of like Robert and Yasmin's goodbye over the banquet table, et cetera. So what do you think of industry as a whole? Where's your temp on that? And what did you think of the moves they made in season three? I mean, I really enjoy this show. I really enjoy how mean it is, how uncompromising it is. And I think that you can incorporate some of those directorial flourishes, some of like the formal choices within that makes for really exciting TV. And it's just, there is a poetry to the way the show is written that often ends in ridiculous insults or incredible like crude remarks that really appeals to me on a spiritual level and really hits me, I guess where I live, I guess where I don't want to admit that I live in some way. I think this is the part of it. You live here at Pier Point? I wouldn't go that far. But I think... Muck Manor? Are you rattling around Muck Manor? Is that your vibe? I mean, that is, like the sad boy banging on the harpsichord is definitely more my energy. So maybe that's where I'm more aligned. But I think what makes industry so effective for me is it like it does hit at a very real thing that is existing in the world that feels so of this present moment in like such a, I don't know, like such a cynical way. And then it hits a part of all of us that like we dare you to laugh at Cal Penn referring to this woman as a pommel horse. Like we just dare you to laugh or not laugh and sit with that in that moment and whatever that's going to say about you. Part of what I'm getting at Jodi is like, I feel like, and the creators would be bummed to hear me say this, but I feel like the show has been barreling towards, I'm going to call it the successionification of industry here as we go into season four. The creators in a recent interview were saying, oh, I don't see any resemblance between our show and succession. And that was deeply wild to me. But to Rob's point, dare you to laugh at these edgy jokes we're telling these insults, the way in which alliances come together and fall apart and come together and fall apart, the way in which everything feels so personal. And this season, the way we're expanding into like journalism and globe trotting and more PJs and all those other things. So Jodi is someone who's covered season two, season three, and now season four in depth. What do you think of them saying this is nothing like succession or what do you think is going on here? I frankly have also never really found it very similar to succession. The only comparison point I felt in this premiere is the immediate introduction of Tinder and Tinder 2.0, Tinder with an E felt very Volter like from succession when they were imitating Vulture. And I think that's just some of the fun of it. But to me, it's like we dare you to laugh, but it's really like we dare you to consider this. We dare you to consider Cal Penn calling a woman a pommel horse and consider what you think about that. It really feels a lot like and because it moves so fast and because every season is so different, but really plants us in not maybe a topic area that we live in, but a world that we live in. It's like consider the world that you live in, consider how ugly and broken it is and how we still find humanity in it and how you still find humanity in Harper's turn or don't find humanity in Harper's turn or observe other people finding or not finding humanity in her. And how do you how do you feel about that? How do you feel about? I mean, for me, season three was just so much about Harper and Yasmin and they're like, you know, I mean, they have the fight of all fights in that in that season where Yasmin is like, you know, I thought that we that I could be at my worst and you could be at your worst and we could still love each other, but it's so clear to me that we cannot. And then Harper just calls her a whore, like, and then by the end of the season, season three, she's up at the top of that invitation list to the wedding above the Obamas and Malala. It's like that. And you're like, Yasmin, no, but also sort of Harper, no, like, who do I just the show? It's so funny how much the show makes me think about humanity and these characters, given that the majority of the show, they are talking about things that I so fully do not understand and never will. Yes, Joe, I can't figure out if I can't figure out if these characters are more evolved than us, because they're like so exceedingly practical in some ways that like Yasmin and Harper will always have some kind of functional in air quotes relationship. Like, are we naive to be operating in our normal human hurt feeling spaces? I think it's really interesting the fact that this, you know, we've been we've been sort of shedding cast members since season one, but to lose the character of Robert Harry Lottie's character and that sort of Yasmin Robert will they won't they, which took up a really sort of earnest space inside of season three inside of a very cynical show. I'm curious what that will do to the show to lose that part of it. Like, does that does that earnestly still exist inside of Eric and Harper's dysfunctional father child relationship? Does that earnestly still exist inside of Harper and Yasmin as this sort of toxic love story between, you know, two women? I know that you're mourning the loss of Robert Jody, but what do you think about that sort of evolution? The saddest boy on planet Earth. I mean, the thing is that it was the evolution of that character, Rob, and the the storyline playing out in season three of like, oh, these really are two people who love each other. And it's not a will they are, won't they? It's a can they are, can't they? And they both sort of agree, can't for these as Rob pointed out, these like sort of pragmatic, practical reasons. I think that's like how Yas more or less proposes is like, this is practical. This makes sense. And that scene in season three where she watches as she's thinking about that she needs some level of protection in her life from all of the misdeeds that her father is led her into from just the people that she associates with. She can only protect herself with more of those people. And she watches Rob scratch an allotto ticket and and losing. And when she asks him how the lotto ticket go, he's like, I lost, of course, he'll always lose. He's Rob. OK, you don't need to play it that way. He's he's let's let's pretend that we clip that audio. Let's pretend that the Ashwagandha scheme in Silicon Valley is going very well. Yes, that's that's how I prefer to think about. I'm sure. But he could only win also if he extracted himself and got the Silicon Valley alpaca haircut that we saw him with in the season finale. That's the only way he wins. These people will always lose. And we have been watching them for three seasons. And where do we find them at the beginning of season four? Richer, but doing horribly. Less happy. Yeah. I want to talk a little bit about so last season we get Kit Harington added to the cast. And this is sort of like a big deal in general. The fact that industry started with sort of very talented no name actors and has turned, you know, many stars, made many stars out of a few of them. But to add Kit Harington to the mix felt like a bit of a different direction. And then this season, you know, we've got Max Mingala, Charlie Heaton's here, Karen and Chippka is here. We start with Charlie Heaton of Stranger Things fame doing an impression of Joe from you. Like we start with Karen Chippka and Charlie Heaton. And real quick, we're all journalists, right? This is how journalism works. You didn't learn this in J school. You don't learn stalking in J school. You know, I didn't go into go to J school. I simply went straight into blogging. So I went ahead and got my black stalking hat, you know, from a non-prestige location. But yes, the journalism ethics are somehow dicier than the finance ethics in this show. Yeah. Do you think what stopped them at her place was the journalistic ethics or was it the button fly? I was having trouble discerning what was ultimately like the barrier there. Great question. Sometimes it's only a button fly that will save us from our worst instincts. But what do you make, Rob, of this move towards, you know, bigger names inside of the cast? I mean, it works only if it's more than the splash, right? Like there's shows where I wouldn't trust it. And this one I absolutely do. Like I trust the substance and I trust, I'm sure we'll get into it, but like the economy of some of the storytelling here, where in within this episode, we're introducing like five new characters, we're touching base with all of the industry regulars who are still around. And we're basically telling a fully fledged, compelling story about a hostile takeover within a company I did not care about an hour ago. And now all of a sudden I do. And so if you have all of that working, then it doesn't feel like stunt casting. It just feels like we're bringing in some heavy hitters. I'm like really established TV actors to play compelling parts and that we can believe in them. They're going to be going somewhere. I should say, I like, I don't think of it as stunt casting at all. It just again, and I don't mean to, I will not hammer this the entire time, but like it reminded me of later seasons succession. They're like, we got Adrian Brody for a couple episodes. You know what I mean? Like we're a different level now than we were when we started and we're doing something else here. But that's what separates it, right? Like what makes it not stunt casting is the substance of the show, is the writing of the show. And it feels to me, it feels consistent to the show. Like I remember in season three, so sort of hoping with like Sweet Pea and Enraged, like, oh, maybe we're going to do like a Saved by the Bell new class, you know, we're going to see like the new junior traders or whatever. And that didn't shake out. But what we're getting is sort of like a different Saved by the Bell, the new class, like a different junior class of Charlie Heaton and Karen and Chippka. And then also like a sort of different senior class, you know, I do feel like that's always really organizational about the show is you sort of know where everyone stands within the pecking order because they sort of exist in the same world. So like Kalpin and Max Margiela come in and we we know where they stand, you know, like, you know, what kind of power they wield within this society. And so it's really exciting to have these really good actors in the roles. But to me, they just fit so into the world that's been created. Right. And it's not like we're not we're not swinging high. We're swinging mid. And I think these are not by talent, but I mean, the fame level. And I think these are I mean, I thought kid Harrington was so good last season and better than anything I think that he ever did in Game of Thrones. And I'm delighted by the tiny glimpse we get of him at the end of this episode. The creators have said I haven't watched it yet, but they've said that episode two is like a Harper and Henry episode. So like this felt like a next time on. It did. I was like, I thought I was watching. I wrote down in my notes, what's going on with this weird piano? And then and then it was Henry. I guess my sort of last let's look back question before we continue to look forward for you, Jodi, is someone who spent three seasons or two seasons covering it so closely in the halls of Peer Point. What does it mean for you for Peer Point to not be around in the show this season? So great question. It meant nothing to me, kind of like I realized in refluxing purple Peer Point hoodie, my people are here and they can, you know, these people and Eric in particular can spin all the nostalgic tales they want. They can. But it always comes down when they say it comes down to the people, they're lying. It always comes down to the money. When I say it comes down to the people, it is because I am in love and hate with these characters. And so like that I had Harper and Eric, I didn't need Peer Point. I will say I found myself pretty confused about where I was a lot, like geographically and within companies and where just sort of like where people were. It it did feel a little less tethered, you know, to a place. But but perhaps more tethered to the like relationships between these people that tie it all together. Yeah, you don't have that gravitational pull of the office setting. And so with that, yeah, it does demand a little more explanation, a little more hand holding as far as like we know who these people are to each other. But literally, where are they right now? Is I was I was left in a similar spot, Jody. I think rewatching season three, I was struck by, you know, in a sort of binge fashion, I was struck by there was less Harper than I wanted. And I don't know if that was just because like, Mahalo was like busy or whatever. But the creators have talked about the fact that, you know, if they had any regrets about season three, it would be to, you know, like, Yasmin and Harper and Rob all lived together, but you barely ever saw them sort of like crossing paths at home and stuff like that. Harper was just sort of like gone from the narrative for like several episodes at a time sometimes. And so having Harper and Yasmin, you know, in a room together in this episode and then having the plot put Eric and Harper back together seemingly on a venture that I'm sure will go just fine. But like Harper and Eric, which is like my like heart relationship on this show, toxic relationship on this show. I mean, you and Sigmund Freud, both, you know, there's a lot. You and your broken heart. My damaged, deeply damaged, warped heart. Putting them, having the plot put them back together in business together. Thrills me. I love that they're just sort of like, guess what? The heart wants the heart wants and the heart wants Eric and Harper to fuck each other over yet again one more time. Right. Yeah. And I think that's like where Mickey and Conrad are so smart is like, we don't have Pure Point anymore. We're not going to do the will they or won't they? Eric and Harper start scheming again and wait until like Episode 4. It's just like, go ahead and give it to us and give us Yas and Harper in a room together. Like we need, we need this in season four, because we don't exactly know when we are or where we are or who's we are, but we know who they are. Yeah. I think there's ways in which these characters are clearly learning and evolving. I don't know about like really growing as people, but changing ever so slightly. And yet there are these immutable truths. Like when push comes to shove, Harper will burn everything down pretty much every time. And Eric cannot like idle himself on the sidelines. Like he's got the twitchy hands even in retirement where he's not just going to sit by like there's more money to be made. There's, you know, one of my favorite Jodeisms is how men are obsessed with legacy and who is more obsessed with legacy than Eric. Oh, nobody. And there is a certain subsect of men obsessed with legacy who will when push comes to shove get a Kangal hat. And that is what Eric did in this episode of television. And when it was time to get back to get off the golf course and back into business, he whipped that Kangal hat right off. Oh yeah. Put Childress Things aside. All right. So the episode is Paywall of Pukaki, just like a great tone to start the season. I guess my question, I just want to start with this sort of big picture. Jodi, did you like this episode and was there a specific moment inside of this episode where you're like industry, we are fucking back. Let's go. Yes. I loved this episode. I had a great time. There's like, there's just something about that industry score that never stops. That music that never stops. But then every once in a while, you'll be like, oh, this is really American sounding or whatever. I just love it. Six, I believe first, illicit substance use six minutes in, which felt a little long, frankly, but I'm glad that we got there. You know, we were meeting some new characters or sort of like a cold open. But I would say the moment for me is when Harper hops out of that black car, inner three piece pinstripe suit. And like this is the Harper I've always wanted. Like I've the talent has always been there. The, you know, shark like motivation to just keep moving no matter what has always been there, but I've always wanted her to like be a fashion plate. And so that was very exciting for like her looks in this episode. We're so what I wanted. And I couldn't help but notice that, you know, the episode also very early on, we find out that she's it's her birthday. She's turning 30. She gets a note from her mom. And I believe in season three, we heard that she'd gotten a note from her mom when she was on the Forbes 30 for 30 list. And her mom told her that her hair looked like shit. And she's changed her hair in this season. It's like the little the little details are there. I mean, the birthday card for mom that says, looks like you looks like you got everything you wanted. I mean, right in the shredder, just the coldest shit. Right. Right to the heart. I loved that intro for Harper for a million different reasons. But one of them is like having just rewatched season one and how much of season one is Harper walking to work, like with her gray, like cheap gray overcoat and her earbuds and just sort of like because she's just starting out and she has nothing walking to work. So to watch her come out in the same color palette, in the gray color palette, but like just swathed in luxury, hopping out of a chauffeur car. This is just sort of like how far we've come, how far we could possibly fall. She's back to work, like, you know, I mean, in season three, shoes were in those little collared sweaters and kind of swiveling around in a chair, like not having a lot to do and then amped up, amped up. But now it's like kind of back to the Harper we met, who's like ready to go to war. One of our e-mailers who they've already been quite active, blown up prestigeTVatspotify.com, compared that walk to Darth Vader sauntering in and like there definitely is a clokey appeal to what Harper's got going on here. It's an actual cloak. I mean, seriously, I should also say, as you as listeners, hopefully know, we love you so much. We love your emails. PrestigeTVatspotify and we will come up with like an industry specific email before this episode is over. We did already get an email from someone that like I would like to flag. It was like very like suggestions of emails. And I was like, this is HR, please do not come find us when you read this email. This is a tough show to make an email address for, for exactly that reason. Well, the first episode title is Paintel's Booth Hockey. Yeah. Ron Mone, what was the moment inside of this episode? Did you like his episode? What was the moment inside where you're like industry, we're fucking back. Let's go. I did love this episode. I did feel so immersed in this world so quickly, even though it is pivoting in pretty dramatic ways as you alluded to, Joe, for me, it is like, if I can encapsulate industry in one line, it is this one from Harper. And I quote, is this all because you couldn't make me come? If you're going to have a fucking stroke, please do it outside my office. And like as soon as she is flexing in that way, a different version of Harper than we've ever seen. It's like all these characters as Jody was kind of laying out who have come up and sort of the contrast from season to season, the like going from the Harper who walks to work to the Harper who's behind this desk saying those kinds of things. That's really exciting shit for me. I love, I love where we are, even though other than like the framing you see in the trailers and we know there's going to be like such a heavy Harper, Yasmin, I don't know, collaboration is the right word, but intersection over this season overall, at least I would assume based on the way it's being framed. Other than I have no idea what they want to do with this season. I have no idea the kind of story they want to tell other than it's like loosely about a neobank shedding its, I don't know, morally flexible ties. Let me let me hit you with some, you know, at least a quote from from the creators who have been giving great interviews, including so our very own Katie Baker, who does great coverage of industry on the ringer.com. So expanding into journalism, expanding into politics in a more meaningful way than they did before and expanding into sort of it's concerned with power, which again is what, and again, hasn't it always been though? But but in an industry specifically, and then this season they're saying, we never said the industry, we just said industry, so we can beat any industry. So now it's also much more meaningfully politics and journalism and fintech and all this other stuff like that. And so this is this is the quote that Mackey Down gave to Katie Baker, a globe trotting sort of conspiracy espionage thriller. And he likened to sort of Michael Mann films and they've made comparisons to Michael Clayton. So they're basically like written by Tony Gilroy, directed by Michael Mann. That's what we're going for. Well, even some of the insider vibes, if you want to play the journalist at Mangle, the realm of those kinds of films in the nineties and early naughties. So that is is what they're going for. Jodi, does that thrill you? Does that concern you? How do you feel about it? Well, I was, as you were saying that, I was like, when was I thinking about espionage in this episode? Oh, that's right. When Rishi and his brand new best kind steals someone's password to take pictures of their email inbox. I was like, we've seen Rishi do some shit. Yeah. We've never seen him do shit like this. And I was so excited because like this was the prompt, you know, Harper herself says in this episode, I'm not being allowed to do what I was told I was going to be allowed to do by who knew auto would fuck her over. It never occurred to me. But but when Rishi is like spying on someone else's cell phone, I was like, this is the log line of what I was promised in the season three finale when and when Harper tells auto what she wants to do. Yeah. And I was corporate promise. Corporate espionage. Yeah, exactly. And this is like the closest to what I'm getting. But yeah, in that room, he's not the guy being a dude showing another dude porn at the wake, you know, like there are there are levels to this stuff. And like I'm down for the corporate corporate espionage. But what I love about all these characters is that no matter how far down they go, there's always other pigs in the filth with them. Like they're just surrounded by people doing weird shit all the time. Yeah, you don't have to look far. And also like, what is your, you know, what is the filth at that point in their lives? It's like, we have heard Rishi say the craziest stuff. And there's like the ongoing or their peer point. There was like the ongoing joke of just hearing his lines a little louder in the background of him talking, you know, about how a veal calf fucks or whatever. And now we have him. You can feel, I think, a little part of him die when he like has to ask the guy to bring the only fans or siren video back up again. And then when he's trying to play it off, he's like, oh, yeah, huge honkers or whatever he says about this. I believe the term is milkers if you want to be specific. Okay, I thought it was milkers, but I was like, Jodi, don't say milkers if it's not. That's the thing. You can't be the milkers person if it's not really milkers. You can't bring milkers to the table if it wasn't already brought by me by Rishi. And like to to to see the extent to which he's fallen that like that's kind of like the old way he used to talk is a low point for him now, because his heart's not in it. Because his wife got killed in front of him. His wife got killed in season three finale. That'll do it. These are the twists and turns we take here on industry. I'm glad to see some some character repercussions for that. For me, what was the moment where I was like, yeah, what's stuck out for you, Joe? We're back. It's sort of similar to what you were talking about, Rob. But I think is when James Astor's body crashed through the glass desk. I think that was the moment where I was just sort of like, here we go. It's the one to punch. Right. Because you know, the connection between if you're going to have a fucking stroke, don't do it in my office to him immediately having a stroke. And then for me, actually, maybe the so back moment is then right after he crashes through that glass desk when Harper says, very convenient with a man dying in front of her and just, well, this is convenient. But it was minor. It wasn't even a big deal. She did not know that. It's very true. Not know that then. I love when he showed up in his running gear and I was just sort of like, did they put him in his running gear so that I would remember him from the last season when he was also running? I think so. Or is this all that James does? OK, I want to talk to you guys about the music in this episode because industry has always had really good music, but I feel like they're doing something a little different in this episode. I don't know if it's going to extend beyond it, but we are getting, you know, some of the traditional score, but we also get a they went real social network. They did. In the score when, you know, Max Mingela of the social network fame fired his friend and couldn't look him in the eye. His co-founder, like we're doing social network. We've cast an actor from social network and we're aping the score from social network in this moment. I'm not mad about it. I'm thrilled about it personally. I would say it's even maybe a little more anxiety inducing than the social network score. I considered listening to this score on the way here today and I was like, I don't want that energy. Not on the road. No, it's not good for anybody. But I thought it was like, we're also getting like La Mer is dropped in here. Love is blue, which is literally a song they famously used in a Mad Men. I was like, this is such a Mad Men song. And then they literally used it in a great Mad Men episode in season six. Plus shout out new season, new order, Joe. You know, we're going to work bangers right out of the gate. New orders here. And then we close with Henry Purcell's music for the funeral, Queen Mary, which is the Clockwork Orange theme. Like he's plunking it on the Harpsichord and then it goes, which is like a classical piece of music and then it goes into the version that they use. I believe it's the same version they used in Clockwork Orange. So like having Henry in this like old world classical Harpsichord space into the drug-fueled dystopia nightmare that is the Clockwork Orange. And again, it just feels to me and I like this that the creators here who are now directing episodes, they directed their first couple of episodes at the end of last season, they direct the first two episodes, at least of this season, if not more, are just really trying to swing. Here's here's my bigger picture take on industry. I have liked it from the start, but it feels to me in the first couple of seasons, because they were so green, which they've called themselves that, it felt a little bit like they were trying to prove that they belong on HBO. They're like the way that sex is used, etc., etc. Like way more sex than heated rivalry, by the way. Like the fact that he arrived where he gets all this shit for being like having so much sex and I was like, have you watched season one of industry? I have a question. Well, I believe what he did rivalry has a lot of his pleasure and there's very little of that on industry. There's a lot of sex and like not a lot of pleasure. But it just felt like like sort of similar to our main characters about slightly more insecure in the first couple of seasons. And now it's just sort of like, we're here. We have this opportunity. We took some swings on season three and people fucking loved it. So let's swing even more in season four. And I think they, like given the interviews that they've given, I think they really want to establish themselves as like prestige TV makers. We want they want to make an all timer show. And I don't know, what do you think about that, Jodie, about the music and about about the direction they're heading? Well, I think, you know, I wonder what motivates them. Like if they if they are sort of motivated to make an all timer show, or if they are just sort of solely motivated by this show, like this very unique creature that they have made, because something that, you know, I talked about this show with was I've talked about it with Charles, like that we've always said is that it burns through plot. And that is often an insult to a show. It is not on this show. It is it feels sort of fearless the way that they take on these storylines and the way that they let the show and its cast and its plot lines and its topic areas just move and form and shape. And then the more anchoring things are the relationships between the people, the music, the even like that. I mean, Joe, you mentioned Mad Men, this new strange office that Harper has that is now like without a glass desk. That felt like that blocking felt very Mad Men-esque to me. And I think that as the as the characters find more of a place in the world, the show sort of also finds more of a place in the world and just like feels more secure. And I'm not mad about it. But I do think that like putting Kit Harington in the show when you're about to swing into the world of nobility and legacy and all of that is like very. We took the guy from Thrones. We hadn't do sort of like a more Seven Days in Hell performance, like Comedy Kit Harington is like one of my favorites. But we had to do more of that, but that's what we're doing. We're doing some Mad Men swings. We brought Karen Shipkitt in. We're doing some social network stuff. We brought Max Mangel. And I'm not mad about it at all, but I think that's like an interesting impulse that they have. There's like a mood board thing happening in terms of that particular influence. But I think it also speaks to the in terms of the larger framing of the show. Yes, they do burn through plot. Yes, there is kind of an aspirational, striving, reaching for prestige quality that's always been there. I've just always thought of industry as like prestige soap, basically, for that reason. And I don't mean that in a derogatory way, but because of all of the shifting allegiances, it's like if you watch the show over a long enough timeline, we will see every character paired up with every other character in some kind of business dealing of some kind, usually underhanded. And that's just sort of the soap formula. Like you do just cycle through that stuff. It has in some ways, maybe as much in common with Gossip Girl as it does with succession. Interesting. No, that's interesting. Yeah, I'm going to think of that for a little while. Are you a big soap guy, Rob? Like, is that what you say? It depends on what we're talking about. I like soapy elements, you know, wrapped up in this kind of sheen. Am I locked in on Days of Our Lives, General Hospital, like not so much, but I'm not turning my nose up at it. But the ways in which the ways in which if you do tune into a soap and as someone who watched a lot of passions when she was very young and wasn't supposed to be like the way that something will shock you on a suddenly someone's brain has been replaced with someone else's. It's like, yeah, succession was crazy. There was great. But like Rob was ejaculating on a mirror in like episode two of this show. Maybe episode one, I can't even like it's it moves fast and furious in a way that a lot of prestige she beat is not. And then eating it. Right. OK, so thank you. Thank you for taking that milkers bullet. You're welcome. I'd love to fall on swords. No, so like I think that what you say about burning plot, this this is an interview they gave that I quote that they gave, I think, to Variety that I really loved where they were talking about because sometimes when people talk trash, people still rarely talk trash. And so I enjoy it. They were like, a lot of shows these days are one episode stretched over eight episodes, one episode is worth a plot, stretched over eight episodes. And I really agree. And they're like, we strive to put eight episodes of plot into one episode. And I really agree. Like, I think they accomplish that. And I think it's great. So yeah. Jody, before we started recording, you promised to tell us which. Industry character we are personalities map on. I didn't. It's a word that you guys mentioned to me. It's a brainstorm. I'm just going to say that Rob was like, you know, maybe you, Joanna and Jody are Harper and Yass. And my immediate thought was like, well, obviously Rob is Yass. That was that was my I was like, but of course. So I, you know, maybe the gender dynamics took you there. But I think Rob's an immediate Yass. Tell me why. Tell me why I'm Rob is a yes. It's just, you know, that whimsical nature to to win over anyone. Sure. He's got it. You make a lot of, I love a yacht. I'm going to be honest with you guys. I know that you do. And what happens on the yacht stays on the yacht and like overboard. I made a little light to medium like a patricide. I mean, who among us? Okay. It's like some passive murder. Man slaughter more than anything else. You're right. Thank you. Um, what Joe, who do you most associate with? I, I couldn't possibly tell you any fallen characters. And like, I think I'm given the luck that I'm having lately. I think I'm Rob, the show's Rob. I'm Robert. Sort of. It's like the sex in the city gals. It's like, I think I'm Robert and Harper. I'm somehow a combination of those two. Um, I don't know. I have, I have a hard time mapping myself onto the world. Well, because they're all awful. Yes. Um, and I'm wonderful and perfect. And that's correct. And kind and pure. I could see maybe a little bit of Gus and Joe, you know, about. Yeah. I'm going to pick one. I would say Gus. I could definitely see that, especially in terms of. Well, and just the increasing exposure to a world that is slowly breaking you apart. As it is all of us, honestly, but it's tough. I'm the first one going out of Northern California. And you exited at the exact right time. It's true. Like you make the right. I'm dying my hair weird colored and I'm going to California. You have the right instincts. I'll see you later. Okay. And then you're off to a be a synthetic, you know, fight the aliens, Joe. Keep it up. Um, what that franchise money. Okay. Um, I don't understand this world very well. And I don't feel like I need to. I tweeted out about this, about how the pit and industry are combined shows that I don't understand the jargon, but I don't feel like I need to because they do such a good job storytelling that I understand when things are tense. And I understand when people have accomplished things to either win or lose in a financial situation. Um, I am following Katie Baker's coverage quite closely because she understands this world better than I do. I did get a Bloomberg subscription because their recaps are like much more sort of granular in the money sense. We're not going to get all gloom Bloomberg on this show. I'm just like trying to a little bit understand, but are you potting from a Bloomberg terminal right now, Joe? Always, always. But I guess my question for you too. Is if you were Margot Robbie in a bathtub, how would you explain the concept of shorts, which is what Harper is interested in shorting? She's shorting siren. That is like her move inside of this episode. How would you describe it to folks listening at home? Rob, do you want to take the first thing at this? I would love to. Uh, am I financially literate? Eh, you know, broad strokes. And I look, this is where my knowledge stops. You know how to balance a checkbook. I can get that far. You know, maybe I would be a tender subscriber in this way. I'm looking to, you know, to put on my personal portfolio. I'm looking to get into the wealth management game as a non one percenter. A short is obviously betting against a stock. Do I understand the mechanisms by which that is accomplished? I sure don't, Jodi. Oh, please don't throw it to me. My specific thought while watching this, this episode and thinking about how many times I've watched the big short is like, Margot Robbie can be as beautiful in that bathtub as she wants to be. And I can listen as hard as possible. I am never going to understand. I think it's that there's stocks that you believe to be overvalued. And then they're going to drop. Yeah. So here's my understanding. Press TV at Spotify.com. If you're a finance pro or Margot Robbie and you want to email us, we clearly need help. We need help. Here's my understanding. And there's a key part of it. I don't understand. But here's my understanding. You borrow stocks valued too high, OK, you know, that are overvalued. And then you sit back, you wait for the stock price to go, and then you buy the stocks back for less money than you initially got for them. But I don't know. That doesn't make any sense to me. I get what you're saying, but also I very much don't. Any chance that you have a bathtub in your office? You can just kind of change the setting. You borrow the stocks, you sell them at the high price. Yes. And then you buy them back for a low price and then you give them back to the person you borrowed them from. So I don't understand the borrowing process. I don't know how you're allowed to borrow stocks, but say you're allowed to say, give me your five pieces of siren, right? That are currently only $10. I'm going to sell you at $10. I'm going to buy them back for $5. I've earned $25 and now you can have them back. But if I don't play it right, I still have to like pay for. You know, there's like a high risk there. Yes. Right. Like if I if I get the math wrong, I might have. But I have to give them back no matter what. Well, it's also ethically a little shady. You know, like in this fashion, especially. Yeah, like launching a fund that is that is fully run on shorts. And I guess, you know, the Herper's original idea was that it would be very like white night like and that's that felt like the story that she was. Yeah, for sure. Did she believe that? And if she did, would she even care? No way. No, she doesn't care at all. So I might have just made things worse. And if I did, once again, press TV at Spotify.com. Should this be the moment where we take a minute to brainstorm what our industry specific email should be without getting us on any watch lists? Yeah. Joey, that's tricky. Would you like you don't have to, but would you like to go first? I well, you I want to be clear, Joanna, you said offline that it cannot be Colonel cream pie at gmail.com. I don't think it should be Colonel cream pie. I have no suggestions. The reveal that siren, this sort of only fans competitor of this episode that we're introduced to, who is now, you know, and I love I love this part of the episode. And I presume the season of playing on that, like, you know, these these big wigs and boardrooms who are acting like they're doing feminism by giving women the opportunity to express themselves the way they want to and make money. Only to reveal that before it was called siren, it was called Colonel cream pie was positively wonderful. An absolutely perfect reveal and also like felt very in line with our our new character played by Max. Mingele, Mingele, Max Mingele. I think it's Mingele. I think it's Mingele. Yeah, I think it's Mingele. It's British. It's all over the board. Max Mingele plays Whit, who is kind of he's sort of acting like a white night within his own company at Tinder. And then for the shareholders of no one else. Right. He's like, I'm going to gonna keep it off the books. Yeah. Don't let anyone know. I'm sure it's fine. And after he's chewed Calvin out for like, you know, his lack of ethical boundaries and how he's acting and what he's up to. And then he leaves the room and then Whitney throws a chair and then callers for his assistant to come pick it up. It's like, OK, we're all Colonel cream pie. We are all Colonel cream pie. You're right. I really do. I don't want Colonel cream pie to be in the email. But if it were, it would be we're all Colonel cream pie at gmail.com. What if in lieu of the email when we refer to Tinder or sorry, when we refer to Siren over the course of this podcast, we refer to it as Siren, nay, Colonel cream pie, you know, just to really really give honor to the heritage. Yeah, the artist formerly known as Colonel cream pie. Rob, do you have any email suggestions you would like to flow? I do have some. I have a bracket of like, are these usable for us or are these going to get us in trouble? Jerking off his recession proof at gmail.com, right? Which I might like to counter with sucking fucking rolling the dice at gmail.com, a cal pen line. I have the exact same one written down also related. Wanking is utilitarian at gmail.com. Those are all under an umbrella I would love to use in theory. Do I want to say those things every episode? Slash, will we get in trouble if we use them? I honestly don't know. We're just asking questions. I would like to suggest a couple that may be less dicey for us to say on a weekly basis. Though, why shy away from what we are? Ambient fog at gmail.com description of Jonah's office. We're just bent for a candle as well. Vital to me. Yeah. Harpsichord heroin at gmail.com is something that I thought about, perhaps Harpsichord, of course, being Eric's nickname for Harper as well. So it gives us a nice like history to the thing. Bone dry coldest space, which is Jonah's exquisite martini order, which I will be adding to my my vodka martini order. And then this is a this is like going back to season one, one, but Charlie and brass at gmail.com, which is these are the words that got Yasmeen flagged on the in office I am when they're like, you were talking about Charlie and brass, which is code for Coke and hookers. And she was like, no, it's talking about a dog and interior decorating. But anyway, those are some ideas I had. I'm not in love with any of them necessarily. Jody, do you have any other ideas? My remaining ones were very, again, fashion motivated. Eric's Kangl had at gmail.com and also Harper's pinstripes at gmail.com. We're very important to me. She does love a pinstripe. She loves it. She's wearing so many little suit pieces. She's so small. A one last one to throw into the ring. New elevated level of sobriety at gmail.com. It's it's a tough one because we do. I think we want to keep them a little bit. Yeah, we need them to be a little more concise, but we need them to be a certain level of at least crass, if not fully getting us in trouble. Once I logged that I was like, maybe this is a little too inhumane, is I really loved when the a new character, whose name I have not yet registered, but who is Harper subordinate, who she is fucking obviously. He says it might be worth a pause to consider why we're causing bleeds on our clients brains after the stroke. And I thought client brain bleed sounded like a pretty good name for a band, at least. I like I like client. It's hard to say I'm now realizing it is kind of a tongue twister. Client brain bleed at gmail.com. Client brain bleed at gmail.com. Rob, where are you leaning? I kind of think heroin harpsichord is where we should go. And it you know, it's setting the moody ambiance for the season. It's getting at the Harper elements, the heavy drug use. It's kind of all there in a way that I think it does speak to me. What do you think, Jodie? Where are you leaning? Rob, what was the first one you said? Of the of the allowable or unallowable bracket jerking off his recession proof? It's pretty good. It's a lot to take. It does feel like a universal truth, you know, it does say something about humanity in the way that industry says something about humanity. Heroin harpsichord is good. My only concern is spelling heroin the correct way. Sure. It's no E. Right. And frankly, harpsichord the correct way. It might also be a bit of a roll of the dice. Yeah, I don't know if I don't know if Eric has it spelled correctly in his contacts for Harper. I feel like usually when we do this, there's like one that jumps off the page and I'm not really feeling like we're all equally animated about something. So why don't we punt this for a week? Table it up to the listeners. Press to use TV at Spotify.com. If you guys have a favorite or if you want to suggest something that won't get us on a list, but also you can suggest ones that would get us on a list. But we won't take them. We'll we'll we'll leave it to next week and we'll we'll come back with a winner next week. We're just we're just gating the fund for now. Yes, I don't know what that means. But yes, that's what we're doing. I get it. This is also how we know Joe isn't a Harper type because like the impulsivity is just not there. You're actually playing the long game. You know, you're not just chasing these short term returns. I want to feel good about it. OK, I want to talk about this idea of FinTechs as sort of the story of the hour. So reading reading the Bloomberg Recap and also the Guardian Recap was me trying to understand sort of like what is what is ripped from the headlines in the UK, right? So like there's a couple things going on here. There's the you know, the rise of the Labour Party. I thought it was so interesting. The show has spent seasons seeding these Tory, you know, politicians into the mix. And then what happened in the UK is there was a landside victory for the Labour Party. Cure Stomers and is the Prime Minister, etc., etc. And so they're like, J.K. Forget the character we've had since season two, seeding as a potential future Prime Minister. It's the Labour Party instead. But what that does to sort of the season three idea of like wokeness and environmentally friendly sort of properties and stuff like that versus what Otto says about dropping the R word at work inside of this episode. So like the backlash to the Labour Party and how that's that's working inside of this. Any thoughts about that sort of like where we are politically? We get one of my favorite punchable jaws. I absolutely love him. Edward Holcroft is here as Sebastian Stefanowicz, one of the conservative MPs. We see him briefly on the TV, but I'm like so excited because like that guy was born to be an industry and I'm so excited. You're right. What a job. He's the best politically. What are you sort of animated by the season, Jody? Oh, well, I thought Rob, did you have something you were nodding? I felt like you were ready to get into it. I would say just from the sense that I feel like this is one of those things other shows haven't quite caught up to yet. And maybe some of it is the difference in American politics versus UK politics. But this idea of like again, like the reclaiming, quote unquote, of those kinds of words, like the way things are said behind closed doors, what qualifies as an HR violation and what doesn't in this in this particular world and this particular moment. I feel like the show is rolling with very well, like the difference between a twenty twenty one version of industry and a twenty twenty six version of industry are so wildly apart and tapping into it in a way that reflects the politics of the country, but also reflects the way people are and will continue talking behind closed doors. Is this a delicate balancing act? I feel like the show is doing it really well. Well, and I think it's really impressive because you have to be predictive in some way to to feel very present once an episode is airing or once a season is airing. And these seasons air pretty far apart. For being such short seasons. And it is the rare show where that does not annoy me because I almost feel like I need the time to recover and to breathe. I need a little time emotionally to like get myself back together to learn how to love Harper again. You know, I just need some time and space from the show sometimes. And so like, you know, the season three aired what a year and a half ago. And they've and even from season three to season four, the politics feel very different. And the sort of looseness with the disgusting language. And there's a lot of there are a lot of racial references, I think, right around in this in this premiere that, you know, Harper seems sort of resigned to, you know, the the the connection that she and Otto made was in season three, founded by a mutual understanding that she was uniquely talented, reminded him of himself. He said that before they were ever even working together. But that also she'd be a great face and that it would look very progressive. The way that that language has evolved in this premiere of how outright he's being with her, that she was just a face and demeaning her and feeling totally comfortable to do that in his stupid fucking robes is a different kind of progression is a different kind of progressive. Absolutely. I thought yeah, I thought it was interesting. I feel like there was more. This has always been something that the show is discussed. Eric talked about sort of like the way his mentor treated him racially, something that's been on the show's mind. But I think there were more references across every single storyline. Yes. Like even when we're over at 10 or in there, like a lot of Asians in that program, you know what I mean? Like they're just sort of like every single storyline is touching on this. I would say there are more references inside of this one episode than maybe even across like the whole series. So I don't I don't know where they're what they're planning to do with that this season, but that is certainly something that yeah, it does feel like the sort of anti woke, woke sort of for sure. Inside of this, I don't know. It's the rebound. The rebound like the backlash to the backlash of work. The moment that really got it for me is when Harper is sort of venting on the phone to Eric about the way she's being treated. And it's like, oh, it's just another angry black woman thing. And I think there's a lot of shows where that's where the dialogue stops. And what makes industry industry is Eric says, but you are an angry angry black woman, like there is a confrontational aspect to the way the show discusses race. That's like you can't pretend Harper is not an angry character. Like that that is fundamental to her DNA and the way she presents on the show. And so it's like, why wouldn't you in a show like this call out the thing that could be called out with people who have this level of intimacy, who have this sort of relationship? Like this isn't an office relationship anymore that can be patrolled by literally anyone other than them. And so it makes sense within the world that they have created for themselves that he would say something like that. But then but then it does its classic industry thing where it's like these characters have said something wild. Now you, the audience consider it and where you land in it. Because when I when in that interaction, I was like, oh, yeah. Well, Eric's pointing out like you are an angry black woman and you lead with liking the way that you are. Then I was like, is Harper angry? She's a lot of things, but I feel like she's intense and she's aggressive, which is the word that's originally used. Fair. But is she mad all the time? I don't think so. She's kind of numb, you know, like she's kind of deadened inside a lot. And just like moving forward with she's a survivalist. Like that's that is really always her leading instinct and sometimes anger plays that into that. And sometimes it doesn't. But it was interesting for me as an audience member to like hear her be reduced to someone to that by someone who does know all of her nuance and to wonder what because then it doesn't go a step further. She doesn't respond to it, but to wonder how she she felt about that. Yes. What I also love inside of that conversation is her when when I saw that Eric's current love interest was like a young black woman, I was like, and then Harper's like calls it out. I'm like, hmm, hmm. And then he and then he tries to get in front of it and it's like, I'm not a fetishist. No, nothing to do with you. Of course not. How could it possibly related to it all? She owned those denim shorts before I met her. It's interesting because Kenlyn gave an interview. The actor who plays Eric gave an interview. My guy Miles from Lost, who I love so much, but like he gave an interview to a variety where he was talking about the Eric Harper relationship and he was saying how how much it was about Eric's relationship with his own daughter's neighbor, but it is also this other thing. Yeah, that's what industry is. It's very messy. Holy Sigmund Freud on all of that. Like the way in which all of these characters are are and were literally fucking each other and are and were kind of fucking over each other and just kind of orbiting those two things at all times in different directions. It's almost hard to keep track of, frankly, but it leads to this really rich complexity in those relationships. Is that like that's what elevates it, right? It's the combination of all that stuff's doing together. And if I may, just because I have it in front of me, because a lot of that dynamic was revealed in season three and interestingly, kind of with Eric and seeing his daughters in Harper and he and he's kind of doing that in Yaz and it's getting much murkier in season three. He tells Bill Adler, I believe, I used to see what my daughters could become and achieve in every young woman I came across. And Bill replies, and now you want to come across every young woman and industry and that's an industry. Yeah. On the FinTech front, I am by no means an expert in this in the world of financial tech, obviously, not like you are on shorts. This is obviously I googled something once. But we should say that, you know, for American audiences who don't know, there have been a lot of scandals around financial tech institutions in the UK specifically with Revolut and Wirecard. And once again, shout out, I believe it was Bloomberg for like breaking down the very specific ways in which they are nodding towards those very specific companies. Like, you know, for example, my new, my new favorite name for a character on industry is Ferdinand Schwarzwald, who is the Austrian who Whitney has hired. Not a crowd. Schwarzwald, by the way, so lightly sounds like the they reference like if a young woman wants to record her flatulence on a microphone and make a siren account out of it. That sounds like that could be the username. Schwarzwald. So Schwarzwald means black force. I don't usually get I don't I wouldn't necessarily get too granular on names, except for the fact that Henry's last name is a muck and now Yasmin's name is Lady Muck. Like that is just, you know, they obviously do name stuff sometimes. But like just the the neon sign on the wall that we that we have here at Tender, which says your future is a mountain, right? And this is a common thing. Like when I worked at Vanity Fair, they put a they put a banner up that said think like a startup like this is like a thing you see across many companies. But the the neon of it and the Canary Wharf location, like the waterfront location that they call it and stuff like that, apparently is is is a direct nod to I think it's Revolute where it said get shit done is what the neon sign said at Revolute. Well, it's like when someone has a sign in their kitchen that says eat, sometimes you just need to be reminded what to do. You know, what do I do when you're in a room? But I mean, as far as what's going to happen to Tender, we should just say it did not go well for these various financial tech institutes that that that were sort of taken down in the UK in a huge scandalous fashion. And then also the other thing is that the UK Online Safety Act, which has been recently enacted, is is sort of being reflected here in terms of like checking the age of people who are logging on to siren and all that sort of stuff like that. So that is like something that the UK is directly grappling with right now. That's that's so charming the idea of having actual fintech scandal. Like here, we just have the fraud, you know, it's just the fraud part. And the consequence, you know, we just shrug our shoulders and move on. I have a question about Tender, which is that in this world, which is very similar to ours, does Tender with an I not exist? Or have they just taken a big swing in naming their company after another very popular company? Something I was just going to note, Jodi, is that in your delicious accent, which I love, Tender and Tender sound much more similar than they do. My accent or the UK accent? This is not a lawyer situation. This is everything is being lumped together somehow. Tender. That's Tender with a really soft E. You need to say it exactly like that every time. Please say it how you normally say it. Tender. All right. Anything else, Rob, Honey, that you want to address inside of this episode? Two quick things. One on the sociopolitical front. All actors got to work. You know, they're all looking for the next job. They're all looking for the next gig. Being the body double for Donald Trump on a golf course is a chuff beat. You know, it's not what any I don't think many people want that particular job. But again, somebody's got to do it. Well, and if you have the build, you know, if you've got it, why not make that paycheck? Yeah, why not make that cash? You look good in a red hat, I guess. I also did a quick like Google Trends search on Cessquibba Dalian. Yeah. To see how many people like me were googling it. Huge spike, as you would expect. A nice love to see it. Nice industry sized spike. But more perplexingly, there was an even bigger spike in 2023. So if you out there have any knowledge as to what would have been the cause or the source of Cessquibba Dalian entering the lexicon or re-entering the lexicon really in 2023, I would love the answer to that. PrestigeTV at Spotify.com, if you please. And given that I can't even say tender, like that is enough for that's enough to give me a bit of a brain bleed as well. Also, absolute LOL that that word means long winded, you know, right. OK. OK. Pockettle and all. Yeah, exactly. Joni, anything else you want to flag inside of this episode? I just, you know, I love and hate these people and I find myself at the end of this premiere so excited to watch the interaction of relationship between our sort of remaining original characters. Harper, Yaz, I loved Yaz's new straight hair when she stomped into her dinner party with the power plays cards and her powered double white leather blazer at gmail.com. Just want to throw that one in at the end. One possibility like just knowing what could be to come and how fast this show moves. And also, I mean, I think the the standout line for me is when Eric shows up and he and Harper are, you know, talking about going into business together, getting both of their names on the door, great idea. And she says you came and he says you called these two. I swear, I swear. Um, it's important to me. It's a point to Sigmund Freud. It's important to all of us that you email us pressgv.spotify.com to explain the ins and outs of financial buzzwords. We don't promise that we'll understand them, but I'd like to hear what you have to say about them. UK politics, Harpsichords versus piano forts. I could not get a clean answer on that one. And anything else, Jodi, I'm so thrilled that we get to do this with. Thank you for letting us do this with you this season. It's a it's a thrill in an hour. Thank you. Thank you for doing it here with me. I'm just, you know, I look forward to whatever kind of backstabbing situation we're going to find ourselves in as colleagues and friends and what kind of companies we might start together and just how this is all going to go. If you would like to email us and let us know which which industry characters you think we are, I'd be curious to hear. That might be damning. And morphs throughout the season as we continue. So I did say over on plug on we're obsessed, my my other podcast where Nora and I did some 26 ins and outs that seducing people for revenge is in for 2026. Yeah, it is. You don't have to do it, but it is on trend. And that feels very, very industry-esque, especially this season with all the espionage. Well, like when as soon as Harper had sex with Whitney, I was like, I can't wait for her to fuck him over in one way or another. Oh, I'm so excited for that relationship. Very excited for the downfall of Whitney, whatever happens. Honestly, Joe, is all I could think about when you were talking about industry as a show coming into its power, like it is really standing there with this, you know, it's strapped up right here in episode one. Like this is where we are. I thank you. Thank you, Rob. You know, we talk about industry burning through plot and like sort of not showing a lot of restraint in some ways. But the sheer fact that it is taken until season four for Harper Stern to peg someone is like, OK, well, they're holding back some punches. Paging this early at Gmail.com, Paging this late at Gmail.com, something that, you know, pegging is never earlier late. It arrives right when it needs to. OK. At Yoffy.com. Gandalf into pegging, question mark, you know, this really opens up a whole can of worms. Restrained pegging at Gmail.com. Oh, Gentile pegging at Gmail.com. OK, we'll be back. Rob and I will be back later in the week to talk about the pit episode two. And it's a great time to be on the press TV feed. Thank you so much. We'll see you soon. Bye.