The Two Travelers (Part l)

Pinna! Pinna! Hi, my name is Adam Gidwitz. I'm an author. I'm also a storyteller. I like telling all kinds of stories, but I especially like telling grim fairy tales. You may think you know grim fairy tales, and you may think that they are sweet and boring. But listen, those tales you heard were the cute, happy, little kid bedtime versions of the grim tales. The original grim fairy tales aren't like that at all. They're weird, and sometimes gross, and often scary. In other words, they're grim. And I'm about to walk into a classroom and tell one of the original grim grim tales to a bunch of kids. Do you want to join me? Do you want to hear a grim fairy tale? Let me help you decide. On a scale of grim, grimmer, and grimmest, this episode is grimmest. It is frightening and upsetting and just a lot of blood and stuff. If I get to a part of the story and you start to feel scared or uncomfortable, this is what you could do. You could turn down the volume and count to five. Then turn the volume back up. If it still seems like a part you don't want to hear, just turn the volume down and count to five again. You know how much weird and gross and scary you're ready for. You know what you need. Okay, I'm at the classroom door now. There are kids inside waiting to hear a grim fairy tale. So, are you coming in? Grim, grimmer, grimmest. So, how old are you? You are asking how old I am? Yeah. How old do you think I am? Uh... 106. What? That is the most insulting thing I've ever heard. I don't know what I'm doing. 30 or 40-something. 30 or 40-something is a good guess. 86? 86? Have you ever met an 86-year-old? I don't know what I'm doing. Are you yelling at them? Um... 48? Much closer. 43? Exactly right. Actually, no. I am turning 43 on Friday in two days. Oh, you're old. Thanks. This story is from the Brothers Grimm, and it is called Two Travelers. Most of these stories start with once upon a time, or once there was. once there was. But this one starts differently. How does it start? Hills and valleys never meet. But opposite people often do. Fairy tales usually always start with, once upon a time, the girl and the boy run to the couch. But this one doesn't. So what does it mean, hills and valleys never meet? What does that mean? It's kind of like, you can't have like a valley which is like, it carved into the earth and a hill is the opposite. You can't have them in the same place. Yeah. Exactly. But opposite people can be in the same place. And this is just such a story. Hills and valleys never meet, but opposite people often do. And so it came to pass that one day a tailor was walking down a long road when a shoemaker joined his path in the same direction. This tailor was an easygoing fellow who always saw the bright side of things, and so he waved to the shoemaker, expecting to make friends right away. That's quite a large pack there, he said to the shoemaker. Now, the shoemaker was not an easygoing fellow. He grunted and said, Gotta be prepared, don't you? Heavy boots for rain, wide-brimmed hat for the sun, thick jacket for the cold. The world is a scary place, and you must be prepared. But the tailor replied, I don't see it that way at all. When it's cold, I walk on the sunny side of the road. When it's hot, I walk in the shade. And when it rains, I stop in somewhere for a cup of ale. The shoemaker rolled his eyes. The tailor asked, Where are you headed anyway? The shoemaker growled. To Turin, the next big city down the road, to sell shoes. What a coincidence. I'm going to Turin too, to mend clothes. Shall we walk together? The shoemaker didn't much fancy the idea of walking with the tailor. Traveling with a happy-go-lucky optimist like the tailor was certain to get him in trouble, he thought. But when the tailor took out a cold flask of water and a piece of good cheese and offered them to the shoemaker, the shoemaker decided it wouldn't be so bad to travel with him after all. Why did the shoemaker change his mind? I love cheese. Because of the cheese. Would cheese make you change your mind too? No. Yeah, me too. I'm definitely a cheese guy. No, you're not a cheese person. I'm a junk food person. So maybe had they taken out like a pack of Frito-Lays or maybe some like Takis? I like things with chocolate or sugar. Taking out some chocolate or sugar. They soon came to Torrin, a large town with many shoemakers and tailors. The two men decided to split up for the day to see if they could find work with one of the more established men or women of their profession. They promised to meet again that night at a tavern in the center of the city. The tailor went from one tailor's shop to the next, offering his services. And while no one needed extra help at the moment, the tailor was so open and friendly that everyone offered him a little money or food and told him to come back anytime. The shoemaker went from one shoemaker's shop to the next, But he always walked in with such a scowl on his face and was always so certain that no one would want to hire him that no one did. And no one offered him a single penny or a bite of bread either. It's a scowl. A scowl is a frown. Sad face. Can you understand why nobody gave the shoemaker any work and nobody helped him? Why did nobody help him? Because he looked mean and he didn't look like he's friendly and wants to stay or anything with people. Exactly right. That evening, the shoemaker and the tailor met at the tavern as they had agreed. The tailor was in high spirits, but the shoemaker was as grumpy as he'd ever been. And when he heard how everyone had offered the tailor money and food, he was even grumpier. Ha! The bigger the rascal, the better the luck. He grumbled. But the tailor was happy to buy the shoemaker drinks and pay for their meals, which cheered the shoemaker up a little. They'd had a few rounds of drinks when a disagreement sprang up. They had each drunk about half of their cups of ale. The shoemaker said, Don't you think you should go get another drink for us? These cups are half empty. The tailor couldn't believe his ears. I'm happy to buy drinks for us all night, but these aren't half empty. They're half full. Ha! You're mad! Look at all that empty space at the top of the cup! I'm sorry, my friend, but you're the mad one. Look how much ale is left in the bottom of the cup They gazed at each other shaking their heads unable to understand how the other one saw the world Question for you all When you have drunk half of your cup of, let's say, juice, do you think it's half empty or half full? I don't. I just wouldn't fight about this. You think it's a silly thing to fight about. Yeah. I get that. Um, I think it's half full because if you drink half of it, there's still a half on the bottom. So you are often described as an optimist. An optimist sees the sunny side of things, the happier side of things. So you're like, it's still half full. I think that the shoemaker, I think he, like, he drunk half a lot of it, and he said it's half empty. But the knitting guy, he only drug half, just a little bit of it, so it's half full for him. No, but actually the point is they have the same amount in the glass. They just see it differently. One person sees it as half empty. The other person sees it as half full. One's an optimist, and the word for the other one is a pessimist, someone who's like, things are going to turn out badly for me. Oh. The next day, they decided to depart from Torrin, for there was no work there. But before they left, the shoemaker asked to borrow some money to buy some extra food. The wood we're coming to has two paths through it. One path takes only two days, but the other takes seven days. We may get lost and end up on the longer path. The tailor said, Why wouldn't we be able to find the right path? Don't be such a worrier. I've got more than enough food for two days. The shoemaker said, Don't be a fool. If we end up on the seven-day path, two days' worth of food will leave us starving. Lend me some money so I can get enough food for seven days, just in case. The tailor scoffed. Here, take the money. But I don't want to lug around a huge pack like you. Two days' food will be enough, so that's all I'm bringing. And the shoemaker said, Ha ha, suit yourself, but I think you're being foolish. And I think you need to relax a little, retorted the tailor. So here's my question. Which would you do? If you're a cup half full person, would you only bring two days of food? Or what? You're gonna eat it anyway. So what? So you might as well bring seven, because also you're gonna have to buy the food to eat it somehow. Yeah, though he doesn't want to schlep, like, lug seven days worth of food. It's so heavy. Then bring five days of food and you can ration it if you really... So you might be an optimist, but you're not gonna just be reckless. Yeah. Interesting. I would bring, um, three days of food. That's seventh day. You might be pretty hungry. I would bring seven-day food because you always have to get ready, just like you said in the first part. What I'm going to say is I feel like it's not good to be the most optimistic person in the world because you're like, oh, if I run straight at this cliff, I'm definitely not going to die. But if you're too pessimistic, then you're never going to get a chance to do anything fun. So you have to be safely optimistic. That's how you should probably do it. Once the shoemaker had loaded up his pack with food, the two travelers set out into the forest. The forest was still as a church. Not a breeze stirred. Not a brook murmured. Not a bird sang. And not a ray of sunshine found its way through the dense leaves. The shoemaker didn't say a word And sweat poured down the sides of his sulky, peevish face As he heaved his heavy pack down the trail The tailor, on the other hand, had a light pack and a cheerful demeanor He sang and picked flowers and told jokes Who has a good joke that the tailor could tell? Um, do you want to hear the joke about a pencil? Yes Nah, it's pointless. I like it. What happens when you lose 25% of your roof? 25% of what? Your roof. What? Oof. Will you remember me in a day? Will I remember you in a day? Yes. Will you remember me in a month? Yes. A year, maybe? I don't know. Maybe. A year? Yes. Knock, knock. Who's there? You didn't remember me. Okay, I like it. Did you know that you can listen to Grim, Grimmer, Grimmest without any ads interrupting the story? Just subscribe to Pinna. Not only will you get to hear me tell these fairy tales straight through the way I tell them to kids, you get access to tons of other awesome original shows and audiobooks, all ad-free. Subscribe to PINNA at pinna.fm. That's P-I-N-N-A dot F-M. And use code GRIM with two M's to get 30% off an annual subscription. And remember, it's not a Smurf. Go on adventures with Opal Watson, the curious, brave kid detective with her own mystery-solving business. Whether something's gone missing or something strange is happening in town, She'll get to the bottom of it. She always does. So break out your notepad and be prepared for dramatic twists and turns, because you're coming along on her next case. Opal Watson, Private Eye. Listen now, wherever you get your podcasts. The Shoemaker wrong path. And the tailor, a little nervously, had to agree that indeed it did. That night, the tailor went to bed with an empty stomach, while the shoemaker ate his meal and licked his fingers when he was done. On the fourth day, the tailor was dragging himself through the forest. When the shoemaker stopped to eat, the tailor asked him for a piece of bread. What do you think the shoemaker will say? No. I think no. But if he does say no, it's probably going to be a wrong decision because on the first day, the tailor gave him a piece of bread and some water. Totally. He should give it, right? He should share. The shoemaker said to the tailor, The ant collects food all summer and feasts in winter. The grasshopper sings all summer, and when winter comes, he starves. I guess you should have been prepared. On the fifth day, the tailor collapsed beneath the tree, unable to go any further. He begged the shoemaker. My friend, I shared my food and drink with you when we were in Turin. Please, share some bread with me. The shoemaker looked at the tailor, who was once so optimistic and easygoing, and now who looked so miserable. The tailor face was pale and sunken and his eyes were shot through with blood veins You want some bread said the shoemaker All right Thank you. gasped the tailor. Then the shoemaker added, But! Okay, this is the terrible part, okay? So if you feel upset or scared, you can put your fingers like this, you can close your ears, and you can wait until the scary part is over. I'm just gonna go into hallway. You would like to go take a break? Yeah, well, another person waits by the door and then tells me when the scary bit's over. That's okay. Go ahead. Wait, I actually want to hear it. Okay. The shoemaker said, I'll give you some food if you let me put out your right eye. What the? Interesting. Honestly, I'd just, if I were the guy, I'd be like, I would like to keep my eye. Thank you, you freak. And then I'd run away. And then I'd run as fast as I could. But he's about to starve. I know. Why does he want an eye? Is he going to do anything with an eye? What? Why would you want to do that? The tailor cried. The shoemaker answered. So you remember that life isn't all fun and games. Sometimes you must suffer to get what you need. Okay, now, there's a really messed up line from the original grim tale. I'm going to share it with you, but if you don't want to hear it, close your ears. For the last time, the tailor wept with both of his eyes. And then the shoemaker put out his right eye and gave him some food. Ugh, I'm sorry. I'm still asking the same question. Why does he need an eye? Why? He doesn't need the eye. He's trying to teach the tailor a lesson about being prepared. That's too harsh. I have a question. Yeah. Is this appropriate? No, none of these fairy tales are appropriate. Haven't you gotten that through your head by now? None of this is appropriate. The tailor ate the food, but it didn't taste good. They walked on, and by the sixth day the tailor again began to feel so weak he thought he might die. On the morning of the seventh day, the tailor was too hungry to stand. He could feel death breathing on his neck. He begged the shoemaker. Please, my friend, let me have some more food. Of course, said the shoemaker. And then he said, what do you think? Give me your eye. The shoemaker said, I'll let you have some food. If you let me have your other eye. The tailor wept again. I won't be able to work as a tailor anymore. I will be a poor blind beggar. The shoemaker smugly replied, You should have thought of that when you decided you didn't want to carry all that food. The tailor wanted to refuse, but death's icy hand was hovering over his heart. Still, the tailor had learned a lesson from the shoemaker. He needed not to be so trusting and to think ahead a little. So he said, You must swear you will not leave me in this forest once I am blind, but lead me out to the other side. The shoemaker agreed. Then he put out the tailor's other eye, gave him some bread, and found him a walking stick in the woods. So I know you guys are kind of upset right now. Don't worry. Things will get better, I promise. Yay! The shoemaker led the tailor down the path, and by nightfall, they had come out of the forest. At the edge of the forest stood a gallows. You guys know what a gallows is? Who can tell me what a gallows is? It's basically a hanging station, like when you play hangman, it's that thing, and the rope is called a noose. Exactly. Two dead men hung from the gallows. The shoemaker said, There's two men hanging here to keep you company. Maybe they'll teach you not to be so foolish. And he left the tailor under the gallows and went on to the nearest town, which was called Mantua. The tailor sat down in despair below the dead men's feet. What was he to do? He was now blind and starving. He hoped that someone would find him and help him into town where he might beg for food. Otherwise he would soon starve below these two corpses and join them in the shadowy land of death. Hey there, a voice called. The tailor was startled. Who's that? Up here. Up where? asked the tailor. I'm blind, and I can't see you. Hanging above your head, said the voice. Who was it? Um, the people who were, um, hung by the neck? Yeah. They were the dead guys, yeah. But how can they talk if they're dead? Let's find out. That's right. One of the dead guys was speaking to him, which was surprising. Not just to the tailor, but also to the dead guys. How can you talk to him? Said the other dead guy. He's not dead like us. Not yet. He's got one foot in the shadowy land of death and the other foot in the bright land of life. So I guess that's why we can talk to him. Okay, so I can't keep calling these guys dead guy and the other dead guy, so we have to give them names. Would anyone like to make a suggestion? Wait, you guys are all so excited to name the dead people. Hold on. Fred. Okay, one of them will be called Fred. Bob. And the other one's Bob. Great, okay. Fred asked the tailor, What's your story then? You got no eyes and blood all over your face. So the tailor told him his whole sad story. When he was done, Bob said, Well, you could have our eyes. And Fred said, Aye, good idea. We don't need them anymore. The tailor said, That's a really nice offer, but it doesn't work like that. I can't just put someone else's eyes in my head and see again. Are you sure? said Fred. Can't hurt to try, said Bob. The tailor figured that was true. So he agreed. If he does that, he's going to have dead eyes. Fred said, Right. Stand up and reach out till you find my legs. The tailor did as the corpse directed him. That way. Okay. Almost. Good. Now run your hands up my body till you find my face. The tailor did that too, but it made him shiver to touch a corpse, swinging from the gallows like that. Warmer. Warmer. Oh, great. Now, pluck out one of me eyes. This was the worst and most disgusting thing yet. But the tailor made himself do it. Wow, that felt weird. All right, now put it in your eye socket. The tailor did. It made a sound like... Who can make a sound like an eyeball being put in a socket? One at a time, please. One at a time. Pop. Plop. Num, num, num. What? Definitely not the sound it would make. Oh, that was gross. That was good The most realistic one ever Yeah Lovely Lovely Uh I was gonna go... Anyway. All right, can we all do... You all do your own eye popping into the socket at the same time? One, two, three... Nom nom nom. What is... Nom nom nom! Okay. As soon as the eye was in the tailor's head, he could see again. The twilight was beautiful. The evening was fine. He was going to be all right. Hey! said Bob. Don't you want one of my eyes now? Oh no! Oh no! One eye is probably enough, said the tailor, who wasn't too keen on going through the whole disgusting process again. Well, that's not fair. I wanted to help too. I was a bad man in life, and I'm certain I'm bound for eternal torment in the afterlife. Giving you my eye might be my last chance to help someone and save myself. I think one eye's gonna be bad and one eye's gonna be good. Very interesting. Well, despite everything he'd been through, the tailor was a kind man. So he stood up, reached up to Bob's face, and plucked out one of his eyes. Then he put it into his right eye socket. Make the sound. The tailor closed his left eye so he could test out the new eyeball. As he looked through his right eye, he suddenly felt afraid. He was out in the wilderness, standing under a gallows, and he was starving to death. How would he find a town? Would he get food before he died? Why did everything look so scary? He closed his right eye and opened his left again. What was he so worried about? The night was clear and fine. The town was surely not too far away if they'd put the gallows here. Now that he could see again, he could resume his work as a tailor. Everything was fine. I feel like their eyes, it each had, like, their, like, personality or, like, what happened to them before they died. Interesting. Do you want to add to that or explain what you mean? Yeah, it's the same as the tailor and the shoemaker. One of them, Fred, was optimistic, whereas Bob was pessimistic. Very interesting. I think maybe since he thought that the shoemaker was always really pessimistic, and he's like, oh, it's so annoying, he's always pessimistic, maybe he can see through his eyes and see how he sees the world, and maybe feel better for him. Also, the saying, see through someone else's eyes. I don't know about that. Literally sees through someone else's eyes. So interesting. So, but the thing like that your point of view would change by like you having someone else's eye, that logic just doesn't work because your eye, your eye basically just like sends the signal to your brain to think what you see. But it's a fairy tale. But it's a fairy tale. Or a metaphor, you know what I mean? The point of view, that's clever if you're like you. Yeah, I know. Your point of view, that is clever. of you. That is clever. Also, I think because he's optimistic and pessimistic, he won't be too optimistic and he won't like, it's like, I'm going to run off the hill and I won't die. And he won't be like, I just will never do it. But he's going to be careful and be smarter. The tailor opened both eyes again and he remembered his hunger and how close he was to death. but he also felt confident that he could make it to town and buy some food before he fell down and expired from hunger. So he thanked the two corpses and continued on his way. It was midnight when he arrived in the city of Mantua. The streets were empty, but he wandered around until he found a tavern that was still open. He went inside and he stopped. He saw the most horrifying sight he had ever seen. He looked around him. His skin crawled. He wanted to turn and flee. Everyone was dead. What? And we're out of time for today. What? We'll have to find out next time. No! Tell us! Tell us! Yes, and tell us! I'll tell you and explain everything next time. Yeah. Wait, what happens? He like... The first story, um, when you, when there was like that door or something and then it creeped and then you scram and then he... And then you always jump. Yeah. Well, scaring you is one of the things that brings me joy in life. What? How good? Scaring children, it's like my favorite thing to do. Why did you say that you like scaring us but you also like... Like, you all feel like protect us. Yes, exactly right. I try to take care of you and I try to scare you. Why do I do both of those things? Do you have an answer to that question? No. Do you have an answer to that question? You don't want to get sued by your parents. No, not just because I don't want to get sued by your parents, but yes, I do not want to get sued by your parents. But also because, actually, I really, I love being around kids, and I know that you guys like to laugh, but also, many of you like to be scared, as long as you know that you're not actually in danger. Right? So I try to strike that balance. Are you struggling to peel your kids away from the TV on the weekends? Are you tired of being pelted with, are we there yet, on long journeys? Tune in to Koala Shine, a new kids' story show with crazy adventures taking you all over the world. We'll meet peculiar characters, hear cool facts and jokes, and hopefully learn a thing or two. There's even the chance for your kids' voices to be on the pod. koala shine is mindful fun entertainment on the move designed to broaden minds boost confidence and spark curiosity you might just love it as much as your little ones just search koala shine wherever you get your podcasts and away we go koala shine did it work is this thing on okay good hi my name is carly q And if you're anything like me, you may have noticed that there are a lot of big questions out there that need answers. Like, is the Loch Ness Monster real? What's going on in the Bermuda Triangle? And who ate my pie? Okay, well, maybe the last one hasn't occurred to you, but on Who, When, Wow! Mystery Edition, I'm solving all of life's mysteries. Well, at least some of them. Join me as I travel through space and time to investigate history's most famous mysteries, all during my lunch break. Some things can't be explained, but they can be explored. Listen to episodes of Who, When, Wow Mystery Edition wherever you get your podcasts. Grim, Grimmer, Grimmest is a Penna Original Production. Created, written, and narrated by me, Adam Gidwitz, author of A Tale Dark and Grim. Produced and edited by Kaylin West. Associate producer, Rebecca Cunningham. Field recording by Julia Martin. Casting and voice direction by Rebecca Cunningham. Sound design and mixing by Kaylin West. Executive produced by Molly Barton and Carly Migliori. Production support by Devin Shepard. Characters voiced by Emmanuel Alpenord. Peter McNerney. and Baron Bass. Special thanks to all the kids who joined us in Staten Island and Brooklyn for our storytelling sessions. You guys are awesome.