Dr. J: Giving Michael Jordan the GOAT Blueprint & Saving the NBA

This is an iHeart Podcast. Guaranteed human. Then she says, have you seen a photo of my son? And I'm like, who is this person? Welcome to the Boys and Girls Podcast. Arranged marriage is basically a reality show. And you're auditioning for your soulmate. And who's judging? Only your entire family. I sacrificed myself to this ancient tradition, hoping to find love the right way. And instead, I found chaos, comedy, and a lot of cringe. Listen to Boys and Girls on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. On June 11th, 1998, a deputy from the Los Angeles County Sheriff's Department went missing. Hey, if they'll kill a cop and bury them, what are they going to do to me? What really happened to the missing deputy? Valley of Shadows, a new series from Pushkin Industries about crime and corruption in California's high desert. Listen to Valley of Shadows on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. 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From the Exactly Right Network, listen to This Podcast Will Kill You on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. That man right there is fly, ain't he? Ooh. Ha ha ha. Ha ha ha. Yeah. Doc, you remember what kind of watch that is you got on that pic? Right there? Yeah. That's a Rolex, man. That's a Rollie? Yeah. That should be a Rolex. He was wearing them shits before they was cool, huh? I was in my third year. What was the shade? Do you remember the shades? Cartier. Cartier. I got the shades upstairs. I still got them. Still got them? That's about right there. welcome back all the smoke la all-star 2026 bro i really like your outfit today bro thanks i'm a fan of that i like it i appreciate you we got some sponsors in the building today that made this happen uh this episode is presented to you by money line we haven't heard that in a while man And they're back, huh? Welcome back, Moneyline. Welcome back to the family. Download the app at Moneyline.com to learn more. Moneyline, make money easy. And obviously, shout out our favorite, one of our favorite sponsors, DraftKings in the building. Made it out here. Good to see everybody. Shout out to the family. Jack, we've been working on this one for a minute, or at least I have. I've been on him constantly. Every time I see him, we'll talk, and then, come on, Doc, one day you got to just come sit down with us. And he's finally here, man. A four-time MVP, two-time ABA champ, one-time NBA champ. You know, we grew up idolizing MJ. MJ grew up idolizing this man. Welcome to the show, Dr. J. Thank you. Give that up. Thank you. Thank you. Happy to be here, man. Good to be here. Good to see you. I've been checking you guys out over the years. I appreciate that. Y'all doing great. Thank you very much. Great things. Just playing a lot of people. New documentary out right now, Soul Power. The Legend of the ABA is out now on Prime. Actually, Prime's in the building, too. Shout out, Prime. Yeah. We're going to talk ABA, NBA, and just life. I like that. Let's get to it. I like that. Ralph Sampson was passionate about how you should be the logo. Take a look at this clip. You guys probably agree, the most iconic, they always say, who's the GOAT? I don't think the GOAT is somebody that plays it, but they transition the game that everybody wanted to be like. Who is that? Dr. J. I want to be like Dr. J. Mike want to be like Dr. J. Everybody want to be like Julius. Everybody want to be like Julius. And you can go back to any film you want to and see who's dunking on somebody in traffic. So the league should change the logo to Julius. I would love that. He got a sick logo. He got a crazy logo. But everybody, I mean, The league was bad. Julius played with the Virginia Squires. I used to go watch. You can see it on TV and watch it in Virginia. But he was the bad boy. In a day and age where, unfortunately, homage is not paid enough, I feel like. I feel like there's not a ton of respect for what came before these days. But when you hear something like that from a peer, what does that mean to you? Well, I think it's a great compliment. I think it's kind of unfortunate that every time you try to get somebody to rise to another level to be recognized, somebody got to go. So, you know, this would involve Jerry West not being there anymore. That's probably the only complicated thing about that. Otherwise, you know, you have two guys up there. You can have two logos or what have you. I mean, I would be for it because, you know, I'm well into my 70s. And, you know, we're losing guys every year in mass. And, you know, the respect aspect of it. The NBA has recognized me. And, you know, I'm the slam dunk champions logo or person, a record. And there's probably some other smaller things along the way. So this logo thing, I think it was generous of Ralph. Thank you. Very thoughtful. Probably not going to happen because of what I said the first time. If somebody comes, somebody got to go. And Bill Russell, who was one of my heroes and role models, he said, I keep it a circle of about 50, and if I add somebody, somebody got to go. So he stated that way back when, and it really applies to now. You were once considered the face of the league, and I feel like this league is in a transition of the LeBrons and KDs and stuff kind of moving on and the younger generation coming through. Do you think that is important to have a face or are you comfortable with a handful of guys kind of leading the charge? I think when I was the face, as you say, I wasn't really thinking about that or playing to that. You know, I was doing the best of being myself. Period. You know, being the person that my mom raised and I was representing my community, representing my family. So the league and being the face of the league was very secondary. You know, I didn't think about that. You know, I wasn't trying to act. So when you fast forward and you come to now, you know, I think a group of players is the way to go. the fact that we have the majority of our best 25 players coming from places around the world. I don't think you should identify one and say, well, this guy is the face of the league. He's carrying it because there's no one guy carrying it. Yeah, agreed. I'm going to read a quote from Rick Barry. People say to me, I couldn't play with these guys today. And I say, you must be on drugs. You understand how much better I would be if I were playing today. No strength training coach, no trainers, no dieticians. Obviously, there's always comparisons of areas, and we're not going to compare players, but obviously playing styles are much different. How do you think your game would have held up today? I agree with Rick. You know, I mean, you can't play unless you're confident in yourself, and it's not to put down others. but, you know, self-belief is paramount, you know, for you to just have a chance. So if I was out there today, you know, my nephew always reminds me when certain things happen in certain games, particularly when the ABA is not recognized, you know, and they start saying, this guy's the youngest to do this and the first to do this or whatever. And I say, well, you know, if you go back to some of those ABA stats, I mean, that last finals, I mean, you know, I was amped up and, you know, I started the game with 40, started the series with 45, came back the second game, had 48, you know, and then we kind of won going away with the Denver Nuggets. And, you know, they were the best team in the league. They had beaten us, you know, multiple times. So do you go by statistics or you just go by, you know, how you feel afterwards? And statistics are legitimate because, you know, a lot of people, their job or non-job depends on their stats. So the stats that were posted those years, those first five years or whatever, some of them got duplicated the next 11 years in the NBA. But, you know, some of them are gone forever unless they get resurrected. And, you know, hopefully Soul Power would do some of that. Yeah. I have a question. If you play today, would you rock the fro or braids? This guy. That's a good one, Matthew, right? That's a good one. Because I don't know what braids feel like. He can tell you pulling on your scalp. Now, are braids a matter of peer pressure, or is that just personal preference? I think personal preference, right? Some people want to be like others, but for some people, it's personal preference, yeah. A lot of people are following it because a lot of people are doing it, people doing it, but some people just do it. Yeah. Well, what about your crew? They say, Hey man, you know, you got a fro. We all got braids. You got to come around. Well, that's, that's how a lot of my friends are. We all got braids. You wear braids. We all in our parties get braids. Oh, there you go. Yeah. I got a, I got a quick question though. Cause we're going to get in a little bit later, but I want to know like off seasons now or so. And I have kids and it's a year round thing now for kids, which I, which I definitely don't like, but obviously professional too. It's so regimented with strength training, your diet, this is even in the off season what were your off seasons like unless i was uh injured i was not in the weight room i went in the weight room even during the season it was just for rehab okay you know so i i never wanted to try to get muscle bound and you know my a lot of my game was finesse and quickness and flexibility so i always tried to stay flexible and you know if i did weights, it was lightweight, fast reps. So that's different than, you know, what you see a lot of people do and what you see, what, you know, some trainers try to have their players do. But, yeah, would it be different today? You know, maybe you'd have to keep with whatever the pattern is. You know, I mean, look at LeBron's longevity. And, you know, a lot of that is, like Rick Barry said, you know, all these things that are available. You know, I saw one time he was spending $5 million just on his health and wellness in the offseason or whatever. We ain't have $5 million to spend. And just imagine you can get shots on your knees every summer and bring your knees to feeling brand new before the season. They doing that now. Were you guys playing pickup? Would you just relax for a few months and put the ball down? Would you run the beach, hills? Like what kind of off-seas are? I did five years of Pro Summer League. Okay. So you were hooping an off-seas. So I did the Rucker League from age 21 to 25. And then 26, you know, I had those knee braces on and I was feeling it with the tendinitis. And I said, I can't go out on the concrete anymore. Much as I love to be out there. I love to be, you know, playing for free. and, you know, mistakes really didn't get registered anywhere. People sitting at the court side, their feet on the court, you know, and they're just looking and it just gave you energy that, you know, I mean, you don't know where it came from. It had to come from them. Right. And it was uniquely different than, you know, playing a structured game like we did in college or even with our pro teams or whatever, that freelance piece. and I think, you know, you could probably only play freelance so long because, you know, coach got to have his safe zone. So fortunately, you know, I had pretty good coaches who, you know, gave me a little bit of room to operate, as they say, especially in my first five years. Shout out to OG Reggie Mill. I saw him last night. He ran up on me too. Did he? Yeah, he thought we were styling on him for the Caitlyn take on our show that day. I told him, I say, Reggie, though, you got to admit everybody in the world thought you was going to say a better player than Peyton Pritchard I'm just sorry bro I'm just sorry I wouldn't know I hadn't even seen what was funny to me until we shot the segment I didn't know Caitlin Clark was right next to him she went to a boo boo face when he said it yes yes shout out to OG for coming up with this game fact of fiction we're going to do fact of fiction with the ABA versus the NBA alright OG fact of fiction you along with the rest of the ABA birth the tunnel fit walk. You know how all the players stopping the tunnels with their fists now and get pictures. Didn't y'all start that back in the day? Coming to the games. Clearly, man. Clearly. Clearly, I don't know how those people got back there. Yeah. But they were always back there in pregame, postgame, or whatever, I mean, you know, after we showered and got cleaned up, when we came out, tunnel had all kinds of people, you know what I mean? Our loved ones were there, but then there was other people. They followed us all the way to the car. Yeah. Some people wanted to get in the car with you. Yeah. Like, where are we going tonight? We ain't going nowhere. Everybody was stepping out first like that, though. Everybody was stepping out first like that, though. That's tough. Yeah, that wasn't even in the tunnel. That's natural. I was outside the building. I was trying to find my way in. Hi, this is Joe Interstein, host of the Spirit Daughter Podcast. where we talk about astrology, natal charts, and how to step into your most vibrant life. And I just sat down with a mini driver. The Irish traveler said when I was 16, you're going to have a terrible time with men. Actor, storyteller, and unapologetic Aquarian visionary. Aquarius is all about freedom loving and different perspectives. And I find a lot of people with strong placements in Aquarius are misunderstood. A sun and Venus in Aquarius in her seventh house spark her unconventional approach to partnership. He really has taught me to embrace people sleeping in different rooms, on different houses, in different places, but just an embracing of the is-ness of it all. If you're navigating your own transformation or just want a chart-side view into how a leading artist integrates astrology, creativity, and real life, this episode is a must-listen. Listen to the Spirit Daughter podcast starting on February 24 on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your podcasts. What if mind control is real? If you could control the behavior of anybody around you, what kind of life would you have? Can you hypnotically persuade someone to buy a car? When you look at your car, you're going to become overwhelmed with such good feelings. Can you hypnotize someone into sleeping with you? I gave her some suggestions to be sexually aroused. Can you get someone to join your cult? NLP was used on me to access my subconscious. NLP, aka Neuro Linguistic Programming, is a blend of hypnosis, linguistics, and psychology. Fans say it's like finally getting a user manual for your brain. It's about engineering consciousness. Mind Games is the story of NLP, its crazy cast of disciples, and the fake doctor who invented it at a New Age commune and sold it to guys in suits. He stood trial for murder and got acquitted. The biggest mind game of all? NLP might actually work. This is wild. Listen to Mind Games on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. In 2023, a story gripped the UK, evoking horror and disbelief. The nurse who should have been in charge of caring for tiny babies is now the most prolific child killer in modern British history. Everyone thought they knew how it ended. A verdict, a villain, a nurse named Lucy Letby. Lucy Letby has been found guilty. But what if we didn't get the whole story? The moment you look at the whole picture, the case collapses. I'm Amanda Knox, and in the new podcast, Doubt, the case of Lucy Letby, we follow the evidence and hear from the people that lived it to ask what really happened when the world decided who Lucy Letby was. No voicing of any skepticism or doubt. It'll cause so much harm at every single level if the British establishment of this is wrong. Listen to Doubt, The Case of Lucy Letby on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. China's Ministry of State Security is one of the most mysterious and powerful spy agencies in the world. But in 2017, the FBI got inside. This is Special Agent Regal, Special Agent Bradley Hall. This MSS officer has no idea the U.S. government is on to him. But the FBI has his chats, texts, emails, even his personal diary. Hear how they got it on the Sixth Bureau podcast. I now have several terabytes of an MSS officer, no doubt, no question, of his life. And that's a unicorn. No one had ever seen anything like that. It was unbelievable. This is a story of the inner workings of the MSS and how one man's ambition and mistakes opened its vault of secrets. Listen to The Sixth Bureau on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Fact of fiction, the NBA was a dying, boring sport before the ABA merger. I don't know if it was dying, but it was boring to some aspect. I watched Elgin Baylor a lot, you know, and he was different Elgin Baylor yeah And what I saw in Elgin Baylor I was like oh man I need to play like that I mean I just hoped and I was probably 12 years old and I was saying, look at this guy, man. Left, right, going through the middle, changing hands and grabbing rebounds and taking it down and setting people up and whatever. And he had that little thing that he did, whatever, because I thought it was the nerve thing. The hesitation, yeah, the hesitation. But I said, he faking people? what's going on? And they said, nah, nah, he can't help that. Don't talk about that. But, yeah, so, Brown Ball League, we called it the Brown Ball League. It was, it was, it was the best in the world, reportedly. And, so I didn't have any, any hangups about talking to the ABA and, you know, learning about the ABA because, it clearly was definitely a more exciting event adventure. The ABA, yeah. Fact of fiction, the ABA was the first integrated workplace in the country. Percentage-wise. Percentage-wise. Yeah, there were other places that were integrated, but the ABA was more than 50%. Fact of fiction, Red Auerbach hated the ABA. That's a fact, man. That's a fact. And you know, it was so funny, man. When I first met him, since I went to UMass, and I was right down the road, I was 90 miles down the road where I went to college, and had two good varsity seasons and a freshman season that was pretty good. And all he said to me was, you should have been a Celtic. The whole time. He said, you should have been a Celtic. He didn't say, you got a great game or anything, blah, blah, blah, nothing complimentary, or whatever, he said, you should have been a Celtic. Because they had regional draft privileges in the 60s. I didn't know that. Interesting. Yeah, you had first. Right of refusal almost. First take on the ones in your area. Can you imagine that? Oh, really? The college is in your area. That's crazy. That's the way it used to be. That was a fact. That's crazy. That was a fact. Yeah. Interesting. Fact or fiction, Darnell Hillman, tell you how to style your afro. Fact. What tips he gives you? Fact, man. Donnell had the baddest Afro ever. Even Hollywood didn't have an Afro as good as his. And he could jump and he could fly. So I mean, he wasn't my Elgin Baylor or whatever, but we hung out a lot and we had a lot of meals together. And he actually took me through the whole thing with the cake knife. not the cake knife, it was the one thing with prongs on it. And you slice cake with it. Okay. You know what that is? What they call it? I don't know the name of it, but I know what you're talking about. Yeah, so everybody had the Afro picks, but he had the cake thing, cake thing, man, he could take it out like that. Then they started making those out of a comb, that out of that cake thing was a black comb with the, yeah. No, not the black comb, no, this was silver. I feel like they made the comb afterwards though. Probably they started- name with the cake thing. We'll find it. No women? The women don't know either? It's not happening anymore. The cake? Oh, that's hard. That's hard. Yeah, but it was a fact, man. That's dope. Fact of fiction. The NBA didn't let players grow afros in the 70s. Early. Early 70s. In the 70s, you know, when I got to the NBA, I had my fro for maybe a season or two. And then I personally started cutting my hair. So it wasn't because of me. I started wearing suits. It wasn't enforced. No, there was no enforcement. Fact of fiction, there was a fight almost every night in the ABA. Well, it was either a fight or there was a story about a fight. I would have to say violence was there. And the assumption was Same thing was going on in the NBA. Why there was such violence, it was because they let it go. They weren't stopping play and holding it up and reviewing it and issuing penalties. And very few players got fined the way you get fined in the NBA if you got into a fight. And then there were some guys, man, they were just looking for trouble. They were just looking for trouble, man. These were jobs. And somebody saying, I'm going to get there by hook or crook. Yeah. And really, you think during the season there were fights, during the training camps, that's when there were fights. Trying to get the jobs. My first year with the Virginia Squires, I was in a scrimmage. and I had just come off the summer playing in the Rucker League, right? So I was, you know, feeling my oats, whatever, dunking on a lot of people and I couldn't dunk in college. So James came off. I was dunking in the Rucker League. I got to Virginia. We got to training camp. We were in Richmond, I believe. And the first five minutes, the trainer, he told the coach, take me out the game. And I got off to the sideline. He said, I'm taking you out because these guys are trying to hurt you. You know, so he was protecting the property. And in training camp, we had free agents there. We had some guys came in off the street. You know, we had the guys who were drafted. Willie Sojourner and I were drafted. So they were really trying to protect. So they knew what was going on. And that was a real experience. It was like hockey back then. We're going to keep one dude on the team, just send him out there and just. Clean up. Yeah, just hurt somebody. The enforcer, right? Yeah. What do you hope that people take away from this new documentary about the ABA? I think there should be maybe a benefit, first and foremost, in my mind, is the guys who didn't make the cut, so to speak. Because they had a draft, a disbursement draft of the players who were not on the teams that went in. So four teams went in, three teams didn't. So there was 36 players who were on rosters and suddenly overnight they're unemployed. Half of those guys got picked up in the dispersal draft. And the other half, they were left defensive themselves. And there were issues that were not resolved with the agreement in terms of pension and other medical benefits. and so on and so forth, long-term and short-term. So it wasn't really fair. Plus, the ABA franchise had to pay to get in, you know, and it was already a league that was struggling financially because, you know, with some of the teams, you know, players were complaining about checks bouncing and so on and so forth. So it wasn't the best deal, but I think it was pressured by the Nets and the Nuggets because they applied for membership into the NBA. And they said, screw everybody else. We're going to go in. We've got to survive. And as it turned out, ownership changed hands with those franchises too. And I think the Nets have kind of been plagued throughout the history of the merger because they haven't had a team. They've had teams go to finals but not get the chip. And San Antonio has flourished. and I don't think Indiana's won a championship either, but, or Utah. Mm-mm. Yeah. I was blessed to be able to play in the Rucker, you know what I'm saying, but your time was the essence, was the creation. Look at this picture and tell me what you got. Unbelievable. That's people at the top of the building, right? Yeah, take us back to this moment right here at the Rucker. What kind of shoes were you playing in? That was definitely- Chuck? It's Converse, man. That's definitely Converse. That's Converse, yeah. Man. And that's some good tube socks. It's Converse. I didn't have no knee braces on. A young dog. Yeah, so that would be first or second year. Got the thighs out. The people made it happen. I mean, look at those people. They're on top of buildings. It's crazy. And there's a train station in the back. There's trees, people in trees. And we're playing on the pavement. So that's raw. You know, up and down on the pavement. If you can't go on pavement, don't step out there. and no insoles in the shoes but that was like three pair of socks though yeah yeah so we didn't have the inner soles so there went a ton of outside of yourself as far as other pros playing there at the time were there many pros or were you one of the few I was I was the rookie on the block you know Connie Hawkins was out there okay so there were more pros out there let's see the guys from the Knicks and the guys I played on a team that predominantly had guys from the Nets. So I had Billy Pulse and Billy Schaefer and Ollie Taylor and Jumpin' Johnny Green played during that time. And he was a guy who lived in my town that I lived in, Long Island, Roosevelt. So I used to walk past his house because he was playing with the Knicks. So that was a big deal. You know, I'm the guy in your neighborhood playing for the New York Knicks. and the he was in the Rucka well those guys who aren't playing in the NBA yeah Pee Wee Kirkland and Earl Manigault and they had who's this guy from Marquette they called him the helicopter he'd just go up and hover and he'd stay there and block your shot. Herman the helicopter knowings, that's what they call it. What was Managot's game like out there? Yeah, Managot, Managot, the handle, and he'd get to wherever he wanted to get to. He was short though, right? About what, 5'9", 5'10"? Yeah, he was. He was big. And you know, it's funny, when we were leaving the hotel, man, Muggsy Bogues came around the corner, he was, hey, Doc, what's up? I was like, damn, 5'6", come on. Right, yeah. 5'5". And doing what he was doing. Yeah, he was doing the do. Yeah. But so there were a lot of pros, and it was a pro summer league. So, you know, the guys, Walt Frazier and Earl, you know, Earl Monroe, they would show up, and it was once a week in the summer, and maybe it was 10 weeks, 10 weeks. So Charlie Scott introduced me to the league because he, you know, came out of college a year before me, and his team drafted me. And he was the star of the team, and, you know, it was the Charlie Scott show, and then it was Doc and – Charlie and Doc, great Scott. Charlie the great Scott, Julius, Dr. J. Irving, you know. So I got co-building with Charlie. And we were rolling, man. We had a great season. He averaged like 33, averaged 28. and we were all offense. You know, wasn't nobody playing no defense. It was all offense. We know how that look if you watch today. And then April came. We got down to the home stretch. And Charlie rolled out, man. He went and signed with the Phoenix Suns. Oh, wow, really? You know, and I was like, oh, is this how it works? And then he never came back. Never came back. But I still see him today, man. I was like, Charlie, you bolted on us. You got me all hooked into, you know, where we were. Did he need more money or was there a reason? But you know what? You know who replaced him? George Gerbin. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. You came. Win-win. Nice man. George Gerbin, man. George could score just as much as Charlie, but he did it in a different way. He did it in a different way. So having those two guys as teammates, Well, I was young. I was only 21, 22. I got to go back and see some of that footage. You and Ice on the court together on the same team. Yeah. I got to go watch some of that. Yeah, that would be great. Yeah. That would be great. Drafted to the ABA by the Virginia Squires, is it fair to say that Spencer Haywood kind of cleared the path for you to come out of college a year early? Absolutely. Absolutely. And the story is told, and Spencer's story is told in Soul Power. But, yeah, what he did, I mean, you know, left school after one year and just realized his family situation, he needed to do something about it. You know, I mean, his mother was, you know, down south picking cotton and with a bad back and all that. So he said, I got to do something. I need to start making money. And, you know, his story is an amazing story, but he's the one who opened the door. Clearly. What did that first ABA check mean to you? At the time, you're making about $125,000 a year. What did that first check mean, and what was your first purchase? Actually, I was very disappointed. I was very disappointed because my contract said four years, $500,000, half a million dollars, $125,000 a year, payable over seven years. So now we got the seven-year thing in there. They stretch it out. So we got, so we got, so now that makes it 71. So now 70,000 a year. And we had an advance of 10,000. So I had some money in my pocket, I signed. So when I got that first check, the 10,000 was taken back. So my check was about $10,000, you know? And I mean, it was more than I had. But it was kind of like a wake up call. Okay, this is big business. They chopping your head off. Yeah, they chopped that up, man. They chopped that up. So I was looking and I ordered a car and was doing some things and trying to upgrade the family stuff. I got this check, man. I was like looking at it. I was like, what's wrong with this check, man? Missing a couple zeros. You know, we're near 71. And I don't even think it was 10, man. It was probably like eight. What was the first car you got? It was a Cadillac? I had a car in college. Oh, okay. That's tough. So NIL before NIL was even thought of, huh? So I had uncle. That uncle was my father's brother. And he gave me like a 62 Chevy. And I got out of high school, 68. Okay. so I was six years old and he had put the car together. You was clean though around that time. You was riding good around that time. He put the car together. Yeah. Only problem with this car was when I made right turns the horn would blow. So people was waving at me all the time. I was waving back. I'd ride around Amherst, Massachusetts waving at everybody every time I made a turn. So we used to laugh about it. And when I finally signed, I had kind of fallen in love with a little sports car. I'm going to get a little sports car, but I took three of my friends. So we ended up with a Mark III. But ain't no way near a little sports car. Oh man, I said, I ain't never taking friends to go buy a car again. They talked you into it. Because they would sit in the back, man, it's kind of tight back here. We need more room. All this. And I'm still friends with those guys right now. But I don't take them when I go to buy anything. Can't do it. Can't do it. Can't do it. You once said your best three years as a pro was 74, 75, 76, all in the ABA with the New York Nets. What was it about that time? And where do you feel your game was at that time? You know, I always kind of looked at this thing like I was in, Lou Alcindor's shadow. Because we both came out of New York. He came out a couple years ahead of me. And he was from the city and I was from the suburbs and whatever. But just in comparisons. So I always looked at his accomplishments in college and being the best player in the game, high school, college, whatever. So that was the bar. That's where the bar was. You know, everybody else was maybe reachable, but he was not reachable and not in the exact terms. So there was a lot of gratification, you know, when we swept the Lakers in 83. It was like, man, relief. You know, I ain't in that shadow no more. Thanks to Moses and others. So, 74, 5, and 6, and I was co-MVP one year with George McGinnis, and the other two years I was MVP in 74 and 76, and had to give him his props. And there was a reason why, too, but I'll talk about that a little later maybe. I think with Kevin Lockery, and, you know, even though all of my coaches were former players, You know, he was a guard and guards are supposed to be coaches on the floor or whatever. So he was true to form in that regard where when he came off the floor, he was already the coach. He didn't need this break-in period. And in all fairness to Billy Cunningham, he needed a break-in period. And he had Chuck Daly right there. So he had a good break-in period, but it took three or four years. And then he got it. And when he got it, he owned it. But Lockery owned it right from day one. And when I got traded to the Nets, everything was in position for me to go from good to great. And the greatness came from the coach basically saying look after first quarter or maybe at halftime he come over and he say, all right, we got this game plan. And we've gone through this multiple times and it ain't working. So you need to do some stuff out there. You need to do some stuff out there to make us look like we know what we're doing. And why did he say that? So we had isolation plays. We played up tempo. And on the defensive end, you know, there was just freedom where I knew even if I made a mistake, I wouldn't go get yanked out of the game. and you know when you have that and you guys have had that at one place or another or another or whatever it's just like sky's the limit anything can happen you know and Iceman always talks about man when we came to town we were putting on a show and it was like that putting on a show and you know not being micromanaged and And not worry about anything because, you know, mistakes happen. The game is all about making mistakes. And who makes the less mistakes sometimes is the one that prevails or whatever. But you're going to make mistakes. And if you don't try stuff, trying to play the perfect game, you know, that's not going to work. So I think those three years, the first year, our chemistry, We just came together and, you know, we won that championship against Utah. We played well against every team in the league. Second year, we played well. I think we had best record. We had home court advantage. And, but there was a fatigue factor because we had played through the finals the previous year. And at the end of the season, you know, we're still grinding it out, whatever, and, you know, playing. Everybody's starting lineups playing long minutes and what have you. And that first round, man, St. Louis took us out. We had beaten them like 11 times during the season. And we were gassed. We were gassed. and Lockery said, okay, next season, last month of the season, you can leave town, you can just stay home, whatever. I'm not playing you in the fourth quarter. He said, whatever you're going to do, you better do it in three quarters. I was trying to do it in three quarters, and I had like a 29-point scoring average. I was doing with 28, 27, 26. but that wasn't the deal. The deal was getting the rest. Yeah, being ready. Before the season, before the playoffs started. Yeah. And then that last year, you know, Denver was a better team, but, you know, we were a better playoff team, and we were ready, and we had rested players, particularly me. And I remember that like it was yesterday because I wasn't happy about not playing the fourth quarter. Knocking your points per game down. Yep, yep, you had to throw the stats away. Yeah. You know, it's not about the stats now. And he was right. He was right. It helped. Two questions before we go on. What was the chemistry like when George Girvin came? Was there a, whose team was it? Y'all are, it's funny y'all, because y'all are the two coolest cats you ever come across. Yeah, when George came, I went to, I went down to the arena, because I knew they were bringing them in. And all I knew was he was a bad man. He was from Detroit. He went to Eastern Michigan and he got a little trouble. He got booted from the team, so on and so forth, or whatever. So I didn't know whether he was a badass guy, good guy or whatever, you know? And he came in and he was like, you know, six, seven, 160 something. That's crazy. Whatever. I was like, look at this dude, man. And then he started shooting because they had him shooting around the perimeter, the three-point line, shooting for his contract. Really? He was flipping it up there so easy. I was like, damn, bad, bad right here, right? And this boy was with him who was always with him, this guy. So he gets signed on the team, and they want to – Al Bianchi wanted to bring him off the bench. so he brought him off the bench and George you know I was scoring like 30. George was scoring like 15 but it was easy 15 because he's just coming off the bench and uh and he was content with that he was just happy to be employed and um be a squire so as a as a way of bonding I like to uh because this happened to me. Ray Scott did it with me, where after practice, he said, you stay and do some extra work with me. So Ray Scott did that with me. So I used to do that with George. Everybody would leave, and we'd be in there playing one-on-one. And, you know, we developed a bond, you know, during that time. What were those games like, though? Don't just slide past that. What were those one-on-one battles like? So I think one-on-one physically, you know, he could out-shoot me. There's no question because my game wasn't just shooting. You know, it was taking it to the rack. I get way off you, you know, shoot it. I think I probably won most of the games, I would have to say, inequivocally because I was a little more experienced and I could be more physical than him. But I could see how good he was. I could see how good he was. And, you know, and I honored that because we only played together half a season. I don't think it was a half season because he came in the midpoint and then he played the rest of that season. And then the next year I was gone. It was his team. It was his team. And he was his team until he got traded to San Antonio. but um the experience that we had together we we've we've held on to that all these years you know even with the big three stuff you know we're down there now and you know we got stories to tell anybody asks we got some stuff to tell them from our virginia squires day hi this is joe winterstein host of the spirit daughter podcast where we talk about astrology natal charts and how to step into your most vibrant life. And I just sat down with a mini driver. The Irish traveler said when I was 16, you're going to have a terrible time with men. Actor, storyteller, and unapologetic Aquarian visionary. Aquarius is all about freedom loving and different perspectives. And I find a lot of people with strong placements in Aquarius are misunderstood. A sun and Venus in Aquarius in her seventh house spark her unconventional approach to partnership. He really has taught me to embrace people sleeping in different rooms, on different houses, in different places, but just an embracing of the is-ness of it all. If you're navigating your own transformation or just want a chart-side view into how a leading artist integrates astrology, creativity, and real life, this episode is a must listen. Listen to the Spirit Daughter podcast starting on February 24th on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your podcasts. What if mind control is real? If you could control the behavior of anybody around you, what kind of life would you have? Can you hypnotically persuade someone to buy a car? When you look at your car, you're going to become overwhelmed with such good feelings. 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But the FBI has his chats, texts, emails, even his personal diary. Hear how they got it on the Sixth Bureau podcast. I now have several terabytes of an MSS officer, no doubt, no question, of his life. And that's a unicorn. No one had ever seen anything like that. It was unbelievable. This is a story of the inner workings of the MSS and how one man's ambition and mistakes opened its vault of secrets. Listen to the Sixth Bureau on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. In 2023, a story gripped the UK, evoking horror and disbelief. A nurse who should have been in charge of caring for tiny babies is now the most prolific child killer in modern British history. Everyone thought they knew how it ended. A verdict, a villain, a nurse named Lucy Letby. Lucy Letby has been found guilty. But what if we didn't get the whole story? The moment you look at the whole picture, the case collapses. I'm Amanda Knox, and in the new podcast, Doubt, the case of Lucy Letby, we follow the evidence and hear from the people that lived it to ask what really happened when the world decided who Lucy Letby was. No voicing of any skepticism or doubt. It'll cause so much harm at every single level if the British establishment of this is wrong. Listen to Doubt, The Case of Lucy Letby on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. How did you, as an individual, look at the NBA as you're thriving in the ABA? What was their perception of them, and what was their perception of the ABA? I thought the NBA and planning the NBA was an eventuality. uh you know it was going to happen and we weren't dying to get over there but uh the reports were and we had friends you know like my my uh my agent was guiding erwin wiener so it was uh you know Wiener and Frazier Sports Enterprises. So Clyde was part owner. Part owner of the business. So my NBA connection was basically through Clyde Frazier. And you know Clyde used to take me shopping. You know. Want me to get in the stuff that he was wearing. I'm glad you didn't. I'm glad you did. I was like Clyde. Clyde. I'm not I'm not gonna wear that. Because Clyde would come, you know, he had furs, head and toe, whatever. He would find this stuff. So we used to laugh about it, because he's from Atlanta, but you know, New York, he driving the Rolls, and Clyde was Clyde. There was only one Clyde. There was only one Clyde Frazier. So that was an experience, and that was how close I got to the NBA through him and through experiences with him. And I knew that there would eventually, that there would be one league. Now, actually the agent who set up the meeting for me to go and explore the opportunity, business opportunity while I was a junior and I finished my junior year. I made like third team All-American during that time. and we had a meeting in Philadelphia, and it was supposed to be exploratory, so I called my high school coach. So he came from Long Island, and who else was there? Two guys from the Squires, Johnny Kerr, Johnny Red Kerr, and Al Bianchi, who was the coach. So we had a hotel. It was in a motel, and we spent a whole afternoon in there talking about the a's and b's of what's going on and my takeaway was that the leagues were going to merge within two years they said two years from that point so this is 1971. so they're saying by 1973 it was going to be a merger of two leagues and and the guy the agent who was in there he was he was continuously insisting on that. And the Wilt and Russell had just had that contract situation where, you know, Wilt had signed for a hundred thousand a year. And Russell said, I want a hundred and one dollar because I'm the MVP, because he was the MVP of the league. So, you know, this was already in the universe in the newspapers or whatever. And then these guys start coming and talking about 125. I was like, and they said, I said, what's that gonna look like in two years? And they said, oh, it's gonna be about 30, maybe 30, maybe less, $12,000 signing bonus and 20,000 in compensation. So I called my mom and I said, mom, I'm in a situation and I'm not at school right now. I'm in Philly and this pro basketball team wants me to sign with them. And she said, who are they? She said, the Virginia Squires. Who are they? I said, I don't know, but I think they got money. So my mom, my father, my stepfather worked for the sanitation department and my mom had a hair salon and they were bringing in about 15,000, the two of them. And they were working hard. That's nothing. And they were working hard. And I told them the numbers. She was saying, well, you went to college, you graduate. So if you do anything, you just promise me you're going to graduate. That was the green light. Yeah. Because I said, I can work on the graduation. I can be a part-time student. Yeah, somehow. And now became a full-time athlete. So the next day, we signed. We signed. And all that other stuff began to happen. Mama, we made it. Yeah, yes. After the merger, you land in Philly with the 76ers. It's a crazy story. They said the Knicks could have had you, but they decided to take $3 million in cash. Is that true? They took the money from the Nets because the Nets were invading on their territory. After the merger had happened, Nets were in their territory. So the NBA created a territorial invasion clause or whatever. and, you know, Nets had to pay them. So the Nets had to get something for me. So they got $6 million from the Sixers. And then my contract was $6 million. So no Knicks. Would you like to be there? Would you love to be there? Knicks would have been great. I mean, you know, I can stay in the same house. I had a house over in Nassau County in Upper Brookville and you know started my family so yeah that that would have been ideal um would have been a whole different story i think absolutely family yeah but nicks would have been a different story milwaukee would have been a different story yeah playing with kareem yeah yeah with kareem and oscar yeah he came uh he joined him for one year and they won the championship and then the hawks would have been different because i signed a contract with the hawks so uh i never signed with the knicks or the milwaukee bucks but i did sign with the hawks i signed with the squires i signed with the nets and i signed with the sixes so i had four different contracts during during my career i was blessed to be able to learn a lot from him and coming up in houston he used to always come even when he wasn't playing he was way out the nba he was coming by and playing to pick up with us, Moses Malone. Oh yeah. It was great to know him. Can you tell me some stories about him, what y'all relationship was like? Yeah. Somebody out of the country. We had a great relationship. It's so funny because when he got introduced to pro basketball, I was on the Nets. And when the first time he came into New York and they asked me to introduce him, you know. So I just stood up, got the microphone and just start talking. And I think I said something to the effect of, you know, all right, you know, now that you're at pro basketball, you know, you've been swimming in the water with these little fish dominating them. Now the fish are bigger. You know, are you ready to jump into the pond? Something corny like that. Or whatever. And you know how Moe's was. I'm ready, man, I'm ready. Just give me the ball. And that day, I think he had 20-something rebounds. We played them, and he was with Utah, 19 years old. And I didn't know that down the road we would be teammates. But when we got the opportunity to get him in Philadelphia, as you know, our record was going to the finals three times in six years and coming away empty-handed. and went to the finals with Darryl Dawkins, Caldwell Jones, Harvey Ketchins. And our thing always seemed to be getting out rebounded and just our inside interior defense wasn't that great, even though Caldwell and Harvey were pretty good defensive players. So when we got the opportunity to get Moses, because he was disgruntled it just changed everything And I think from day one and Reese Cheek says it best he said from day one in practice he said I knew we were going to win the championship. Just the first practice. Because this man, when he showed up for practice, he was already sweating. Ready to work. Some guys take a long time to get warmed up and all that kind of stuff. Moses was drenched. I didn't even want to get near him. and we used to laugh about that. Yeah, he came and he established himself, and the city fell in love with him because of his work ethic, not his talent, and the talent was like hidden behind his work ethic because he could get on that baseline. He could hit the jump shot. He made his free throws. He was close to 80% free throw shooter, and, you know, hit you on the fly, outlet passes, go long or whatever. So he did all and everything. And he was all and everything to us because we had all the pieces. We had all the pieces. You know, me and Bobby Jones playing the forwards. We had Mark Iberoni and then Cheeks and Tony. That's Matt Gavmo Cheeks. You know, yeah, Cheeks and Tony, man, Cheeks. No cheek. Why are you looking at him like that? That's his guy, man. Yeah, that's your guy too? No, not at all. Not at all. Not at all. I liked him as a player. I didn't like him as a coach. Charles Barkley once said that Moses Malone kind of helped save him. I said he was fat and out of shape, and Charles took that to heart. What do you remember about a young Charles? I kept seeing his upside, and he was hard-headed. He had something to say about everything. And if he didn't play as good as he can and as well as he was capable of playing or whatever, then some of the things he did wouldn't be tolerated. But they were tolerated because he was exceptional. He could rebound and take it coast to coast, make plays. And for his height, the rebound the way that he did, it was incredible. It was incredible. It was kind of disruptive because we had won the championship the year before he got there. And then the year that he got there, we had to make room for him. And he almost killed Mark Ivarone because Ivarone was playing before. And Charles was like, that's my spot right there. This is going back to violence in the game because the next man, Leading me or you. Let's man up. Me or you, man. He get ironia on his back. He back him all the way out to the top of the key. And then with Moses, Moses stayed on him. Moses used to ride him, you know, because Mo was always in shape. And you know, funny, you wouldn't see Moses training. I don't know where he trained at. But he was always in shape. I had never seen him lift no weights. I had never seen him running, you know. But he was definitely training. He was always in shape. And like you said, you dealt with him. You could come in. You never seen him out of shape. He was in his late 40s, early 50s. Yeah. Still up, running up and down the court. Yeah. Working Tim Duncan out. Even David Roberts, he was working a lot of those guys out. Kevin Cato. He worked Akeem out, didn't he? Kevin Cato. Yeah, he was still playing with us around the time. I was a teenager. He was still getting up and down the court. Yeah. But the biggest thing that, like you said, we was getting from him was he was teaching. why he was playing. He was teaching all of us, you know, how to be professional too. So yeah, I miss Moses. Yeah. You know what his line was, he said. What you gonna do with, this is Dr. J's team. He said, well, maybe it's Doc's show, but maybe it'd be a better show with me. He said it could still be Doc's show. He used to talk now. He used to talk. He always come up with these isms. Yeah, yeah. I know we're a little short on time, but I definitely want to get through this little part right here, Larry Bird. Yeah. Ultimate, you guys pushed each other to the max. You guys had the infamous fight in Philly where you guys are throwing him, you're choking him, he's swinging. What was it like competing against him? Well, the competition against Larry, I mean, started with Havlicek, Cowens, JoJo White, and probably with Wilt and Bill Russell. Philly versus Boston. The history, yeah. in Boston, Philly, the rivalry. I mean, I was, I didn't, you know, I went to school in Massachusetts, so I didn't hate the Boston Celtics when I was in Massachusetts. But once I went to Philadelphia, via Virginia, New York, and then in Philadelphia, then it's like, okay, we can't like these guys. And Quinn Buckner was on their team and Quinn and I were cool, we were boys and whatever. So that started way before Bird got there. Way before Bird got there. I mean, it was with Havlicek and teams they had. We didn't like them. The year they won the championship, we knocked them out in the first round. And there was just a rivalry, man. There was a love-hate rivalry with Boston and Philadelphia. So I think because the cities were competitive in all sports across the board, we had to just join the club. We had to just join the club. And they felt the same way about us. And the irony of that is, you know, Larry and I did stuff together. Yeah, right here. We're looking at a video game cover right here. Was this before or after the fight? This was – that was before. You was kind of ripped up too, Doc. That was before, man. That was the video still out there in the universe somewhere. That was EA's first licensing deal with a player. Was it? Yeah. Did you get stocked up? Huh? EA Sports, did you get some stock? EA Sports, we got 15,000 shares. Oh, nice. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Really nice. And we did Converse together. Yeah. And me, him, and Magic, all three of us, we first three Converse guys. Well, I was there first and then we signed them. So it was a rivalry. You know, the fight incident, you know, I generally don't have too much to say about it because you don't want to dignify a bad event. Just competitiveness. That happened in the blink of an eye. And then it got carried all over the universe because people coming up to me, can you sign this picture? And I'm looking at a picture. That's the fight picture. I'm holding his neck, he holding my neck. If I had a fight- He said, I ain't signing this shit. If I had a fight, I'm like, At least it was Larry Bird. Yeah. At least it was Larry Bird. The next two guys, Magic Johnson spoke on how you were a huge mentor in him, picking him up from the airport. And a few years later, you're battling against him in the finals. And then also- Not a few years, a few months. Months later. A few months later, yeah. Talk about what you see in Young Magic. It was his rookie year. What'd you see in Young Magic? The total package. If you could say that, I mean, I didn't know in college he was as good as he was. And, you know, they had won the whole thing. So he got a lot of publicity. And ironically, there were a couple other tall guards in the league, but none who could do the things that he did. And, you know, he just – he carved his own way. And I think the first coach he had, they fired him, didn't they? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, he didn't understand. Yeah, he didn't want him to be mad. So here we go, you know, with the coaching situation, playing the role that it did because, you know, my first two coaches, Al Bianchi and then Kevin Locker, made all the difference in the world in terms of chains coming off and getting out and being able to be free, running isolations for you and stuff like that. So there was a shift with first coach being fired, next coach, and he's a coach on the floor anyway. Absolutely. Or whatever. So sometimes just somebody being a good listener makes a difference. And then when you got Kareem back there or whatever, I just say, man, this is kind of ideal because I think Kareem's responsible for putting eight or ten players in the Hall of Fame, you know. And Magic can take some of that credit. But, you know, that combination was tough. It was tough. We chased him three times and took a while to catch him. Got him once. We got him once. Yeah, a nice one too. MJ's on record saying you're his idol. Some say he obviously admired your game, but also off the court, the business blueprint, because you were a first to do a lot of the branding, partnerships, the EA, Converse, the business side of basketball as well. Did you kind of see that from afar? Absolutely. You know, I think it's a necessity because the sport's temporary. You can already play so long. And I wish I knew then what I know now. Right, right. You know, I might have played a shorter period of time. Got the business. More in the business sector just in terms of preparation for life or generationally setting things up for family and kids, grandkids, great-grandkids or what have you. Yeah, I look at that and, you know, all you do is never enough because the universe is so big and there's so many opportunities out there. And, you know, it's like rolling the dice sometime. I mean, we had some winners and we had some losers. And, you know, we tend to talk about the winners and revel in the joy of the winning. But just like in sports, man, those defeats, they hurt. Absolutely. And they took their toll, you know. So, and everybody has them. Yeah. This segment is presented by StockX, a trusted source for the most coveted drops. In 1976, you signed a deal with Converse, the first professional basketball player to officially endorse a signature sneaker. How did that deal come about? I was playing in the Rucker League, a guy who worked for the newspaper in Harlem. I forgot what the name of the newspaper was, but it's probably still there. He approached me and said, I want to introduce you to some people from Converse. And I was wearing a shoe called Chemold, C-H-E-M-O-L-D. And that was a company over in Queens. And I was wearing their shoes. It sounded like they hurt your feet, did they? They were okay. Okay. They were okay, because you know, when you, in that era, you just played. Play, period. You just played, man. Wasn't about complaining. Nah, he wasn't. Wasn't about complaining. Don't go that far. He wouldn't have played in no protege. Gotta stop some work. Yeah. He might not be here, he played in protege. Yeah. So that first deal came about through just being approached and playing in the Rucker League, being seen out there. And I don't even remember the economics associated with it, but it was, you know, it was very special. And I think it came about, I'm going to recognize saying this, because of doing PSAs. You know, I mean, I did PSAs, you know, Mother's March Against Cancer and Salvation Army. And I did PSAs for those entities. and I thought Wall Street or businesses saw that and said, oh, he'd be a good pitch man for us. So that was the pathway to that. And I've advised many young people, man, do the free stuff. Paid stuff will come back around. It'll come around, yeah. Real quick, the dunk contest. You know, the free throw line, the hair. I mean, you inspired so many. and today the dunk contest obviously doesn't live up to what it used to but what was it about that first dunk contest you got into and how the aura of that still lives today? I think it's amazing that it does live the way that it does today and I was thinking recently because Larry Keenan was in it Marvin Barnes and Artis Gilmore and David Thompson and George Girvin and myself so that crew right there Some heavy hitters. This is true. Yeah, you got heavy hitters. And the other irony is that this dunk contest filled in the halftime of the game. That's crazy. So the economics, because it was the Denver Nuggets, plays the rest of the ABA, kind of like some of the stuff they're doing now. So we had the ABA All-Stars. Then we had the Denver Nuggets because they were in first place. They had the best record in the league, and it was their home court. right so I think they wanted to put a rock band or something in there at halftime and the deal kept falling through falling through so they said I know what we'll do we have a slam dunk contest wow that's how it came about yeah this is the actual the actual the real deal and they let it and we signed up for it to do it I mean almost on the spot right and and suddenly we're in the middle of it and the crowd is loving it. They're like, oh man, I love this. Whatever. And I'm like, damn David Thompson. He's a fly. He's got some hops. He's going to do some stuff here. And they didn't have any substitute dunks if you miss. So like what happened to me and Larry Nance, when we were in the finals of the first NBA slam dunk contest, I missed one. That was it. That opened the door for Larry, you know, because he was doing the same dunk. All over and over and over that one that looked like whatever, the human helicopter. So David missed one, and that was like the break. I went last, dunked it from the foul line, won the first slam dunk contest. So now I do think about historically the way they look at it now and they look at me, could have been David right there. What he missed. Change. Quick hitters, first thing to come to mind, let us know. One album you can listen to with no skips. That's what I'm going to do. Oh, man, Marvin Gaye. Come on. Going on, what's going on? Five dinner guests, dead or alive? You plus five. You plus five. Dinner guests. All right, let's take Martin Luther King Jr. Put him in there, Jesus Christ. And who I like, I'll put Michael Jordan in there. I haven't talked to him in a long time. I wanna be with this. Yeah, yeah, I wanna be on his mind. Yeah. That's three. Yeah, that's three. Bill Russell. Nice. Yeah. Nice. Legend. Be good to do that again. I know. I had a lot of dinners with him, man. Yeah. He showed me so much. He showed me so much. Who you saving that last seat for? Y'all rushing me? Oh, your team said you gotta get on the road. So we don't wanna make nobody mad. Hey, we can still have another 30. It ain't us, it ain't us. We can still have another 30. We skipped a whole page of stuff we wanna ask you. We gon' save that seat. Okay. I like that. Well, Doc, thank you for your time. We appreciate you, you know, what you meant to the sport on and off the court, you know, still stands tall today. And thank you for finding some time to come through and hang out with us for a little bit, man. Absolutely. And let me say the last seven years been on for me, you know, to be able to work with you every year, build a relationship, feel like a little brother to you now. So I'm just honored to have a relationship I have and I appreciate you coming to me. All right, little brother. Yes, sir. And he's got his big 76th birthday this year, right? Yes. That's 76's birthday, man. That's special, man. So happy early birthday. The 76ers have summoned me. There you go. Next week, they summoned me. Congratulations, man. And I'll be out at your golf tournament later in the summer. Beautiful. Good to see you, man. Let's do that. Dr. J. Let's do that. Then she says, have you seen a photo of my son? And I'm like, who is this person? Welcome to the Boys and Girls podcast. Arranged marriage is basically a reality show and you're auditioning for your soulmate. And who's judging? Only your entire family. I sacrificed myself to this ancient tradition, hoping to find love the right way. And instead, I found chaos, comedy, and a lot of cringe. Listen to Boys and Girls on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. On June 11th, 1998, a deputy from the Los Angeles County Sheriff's Department went missing. Hey, if they'll kill a cop and bury them, what are they going to do to me? What really happened to the missing deputy? Valley of Shadows, a new series from Pushkin Industries about crime and corruption in California's high desert. Listen to Valley of Shadows on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This season on Dear Chelsea with me, Chelsea Handler, we've got some incredible guests like Kumail Nanjiani. Let's start with your cat. How is she? She is not with us anymore. G. Great, great, great way to start. Maybe you will cry. Ross Matthews. You know what kids always say to me? Are you a boy or a girl? Oh my God. All the time. That's so funny. I love it. So I try to butch it up for kids so they're not confused. Yeah, but you're butching it up. It's basically like Dora's Day. No, I turn into Bea Arthur. Listen to these episodes of Dear Chelsea on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The human body is a beautiful machine and keeping it running. It means understanding how it actually works, which is why this podcast will kill you is doing a multi-part series on sleep, what it's for, why our bodies don't follow neat rules and why modern life is not helping. When you consider what we know about sleep in humans, there's one rule that comes out. We are predictably unpredictable sleepers. We'll continue exploring how the body works with a multi-part series on digestive function. So listen to our newest series, which runs January 20th through February 17th with new episodes every Tuesday. From the Exactly Right Network, listen to This Podcast Will Kill You on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an iHeart Podcast. Guaranteed human.