4.11. The Running Drama Episode

Hello. Welcome to another episode of Nobody Asked Us with Desi and Kara presented by Brick's Running. We've been on the phone together already or the call for over 40 minutes to as I feel like we've caught up or we're going to do it again. How are you? I'm too. Let's run it back. We were on talking about things, but I don't feel like we really got caught up. What's up? We didn't actually. You're right. Let's go on. Yeah. Well, first, I want to hear what's going on with you. Yeah. You are like looking Tanner and healthier every time I see you. I'm so jealous. We're about to go to St. Martin. I'm hoping I look like you when I get back. The sun is on the way. You guys have been having warm weather though. It's been so warm here. It's actually weird. So we're meeting friends from Minnesota and Minnesota's had a real winter this year. And so they're like, Oh, we're so ready. They're skiers and they love the snow, but they're like, we're so ready for some warm temps and sunshine. And we're like, I mean, I've been running outside and like sports bra on shorts, you know, so I'm definitely excited about the break of just life. But I'm normally more excited about the weather, but it's been so nice here. It's been weird. Do you feel like you're still a sports bra on shorts person? Do you feel like you've reached an age ever, like ever had this thought where you're like, maybe I need to throw on a shirt more often. I went through a period where I was like a little embarrassed because I don't have the abs I used to have. But all of a sudden one day I was just like, I don't care. I like running my sports bra. I don't wear I it's not even that I don't think I'm not allowed to I don't wear shorty shorts anymore, which I would only wear shorty shorts before I would never be caught in like a normal length short. And now I wear like the Brooks I guess they're like five inch shorts, which before I would have been like those are so long, who would wear those. And now I totally wear those. And I do like stuff that's a little bit higher waisted now. Okay, you can kind of like tuck yourself in But yeah, I covered the belly button. I went through that like a very it was pretty brief, but I would say like a season where I was like, I can't take my shirt off. I don't look like I used to. And then finally, I was just like, I don't I love running my sports bra. And I just was like, fuck it. Look at me. I'm 47. This is what it looks like peeps. Is it? Yeah. Like, I don't even I've thought about that recently. I was like, maybe it's just like inappropriate, you know, like, do I need to put a shirt on more frequently? You don't you're right. Like when it's warm, it's it we're been running in the morning and it's feels like 90 plus here. Just the point. Yeah. Yeah, sometimes I'm like, I also just don't want to die. So I'm sorry if I make you uncomfortable. Right. But no one's been like, wow, why would you wear that? I just was like, huh, I wonder if there's a point where I'm not supposed to feel comfortable. I don't know. I don't know what it's like to be 40. I think if there's a point that you think you're not supposed to feel comfortable, it's like a societal construct that's not real. Like who gives a shit? Like I see people way older than me and way younger than me. I think what's funny about me is I either like to really be layered up, like I like it to be really cold, or I want to be wearing barely anything. And I've kind of always been like that. I'm with you. I love running in a sports bra and shorts. Like I just love it. And but I also like wearing tights and like having my layers. But I hate like, I hate, you'll never catch me. And I know that tons of people wear them. I will, you'll never see me in a t-shirt. I go straight. That's what I was going to say. There's not really a function for a short sleeve shirt. And I have this conversation with Ryan. I'm like, why, like what is, what's the temperature that this is for? Yeah, I don't get it. I'm either tank top or long sleeve. There's or a sports bra. But like there's, there's no situation in which I'm wearing a t-shirt. It's just fabric under my arms. That's uncomfortable that I don't need. And I guess the other side, I'm talking myself through this situation right now. I'm experiencing is Ryan has no problem being like, I'm not running in a shirt today. It's hot as hell. Yeah. And I'm like, maybe do I need a shirt? Are people like, yo, like you're too old for that? You're not. No, I mean, I just like, I've, I guess I've considered other people's opinion like, huh, maybe it isn't age appropriate, but I wouldn't have thought about that like myself. Right. Just, huh, I don't know. Maybe I do need to change some things up. I think a temperature is temperature. It doesn't matter your age, right? Yeah. And I, I, Adam has started running in the last year and we were out running one day. It was so hot and I was like, take your shirt off. And he's like, no, I'm old. I'm fat. I'm this. I'm that. I'm like, dude, you're out here running. Look amazing. Like who cares? Also, I just want to know nobody looks at you. That's like running themselves. And so yeah. And he's going to be mad that I shared the story, but like he did take his shirt off. He was a little self conscious at first and then it felt very free. And I was like, yeah, I was like, you look amazing. And your skin got to breathe. And he was like, it was nice. It was really nice. So I just, I'm like, I'm team, whatever you feel comfortable in, right? Like if you ever. Do you, are you lathering up before you go? Um, Yeah, that's actually super fair. Like I am super very religious about my face. I'm not as good as the rest at the rest of my body back. Yeah. Okay. All right. Thanks to consider. It is warm here. Running's been been going on, been doing some workouts, been pondering. Well, that's the other thing pondering choices for MDS where it's like, what should I be? Should I be wearing a long sleeve because of the sun? Like sun exposure? And so today we did my own repeats and I, I wore a shirt. Maybe I'll wear this shirt. And then I was just like soaking it like every two miles. And it felt like cool. Like cause the air was going through it and you're getting the moisture wicking. Um, but yeah, I would have much preferred to do that without a shirt. And the Brooks Elite Sports bra, like it says elite on it, you don't have to feel like you're elite to wear it. But that's a, that's a good piece. Because I've been in the market, like I've been looking for the right Brooks Sports bra for months, years. Like I have a permanent tan line from the one I bought like 10 years ago. I bought like 25 of them because I was like, this is the perfect sports bra and then they stopped making them. So it's like permanently on my back and I think it's going to switch to the Brooks Elite top. Nice. Throw that out there for you. I haven't tried it yet. Okay. What I was wondering, you know that really thin because I got a Brooks Elite kit, do you have the trail kit or the red or the road running kit? Or is it the same? But the white, the really? Yes. Is that the shirt you're talking about? It's so thin. And I do wonder if like that protection from the sun without it being hot. Yeah, that's the one I'm thinking, but I also feel like when it gets wet, which I wore that in the short sleeve today, and I'm just so good. But then it's just like a suction cup. It's like, yeah. And so you have to pull it off you. Yeah. And then with the pack, I don't know. But I think the long, like the white long sleeve might be the move. Yeah. Just like deal. And I think I'm going to wear a bucket hat. Nice. Just throwing that out there. What do you think about bucket hats? Yeah, they I am like a hat lover. Someday you'll come to Boulder and I'll show you my closet. I do. I love hats. So I personally am not a huge bucket hat person for myself, but like I'm a huge cowboy hat person. So like who might judge? I just love hats. Well, not one that actually fits my giant melon. That's the key. So I'm never a judge of hats. I got a couple of Brooks bucket hats at different events and Colt took them both and they look adorable on him. And there's something about the bucket hat right because it gives you a kind of little protection all around a little bit on the back of your neck. Yeah, it's good. It's either that or a hat with like the flappy. Yeah, I'm going to flap. You got to roll the mud flap down. I feel like I know those have become more popular. I feel like I would rather wear the bucket hat than a flappy. But I guess I've never tried a flappy. And then the string. Yeah, when I see people running like at the US, sorry, at the World Champs this year, a lot of those came with the elite kits, I think, for the US Marathon team. And a lot of people started with those hats with the flap. And I don't know why I haven't asked any of them yet, but I feel like that would drive me crazy. Yeah, you almost needed to close in the front so that it's not like right. I don't know. Yeah, I think I'm going to go bucket hat. I love this for you. Yeah, it's going to be like your signature thing. I know. It's yeah, I haven't picked out. It'll be a surprise if it makes it. That's awesome. All right. Okay, maybe we'll just pop into the show one day. If you're on YouTube, you're going to be like, Oh, shit, where the bucket hat? Just go bucket hat. Okay, so you're in Florida. It's been hot. You said it's been in the 90s. You're getting used to the heat for your race coming up in April. Everybody wants to know myself included. Just like, how is the running going? It's coming along. I feel like I'm just not forcing anything. I've been doing a lot of Ryan's workouts with him, which has been really fun. He probably hates it because I like kind of talk to him during it. I'm like, you're crushing this, like that, like, just stay relaxed. Shut the fuck up. Like, I'm fine. It gives me something to do and I feel like I'm helping him. So yeah, if he doesn't like it, he can speak up. He's a talker. He talks. But yeah, it's been fun. So I'm not like, Oh, I have to get this done this year, that done that day. So it's been quality. I've been running just under 100 miles. That's good. Yeah, I think it's been good. I wish I think I would like to get in a longer, longer run this weekend. I'll go to Boston for a couple of days for an event. And I don't know, maybe I'll run on the course because it's something I do in the spring. Yeah, feels like, you know, you're out there where else would you run? And then get some longer, longer, longer run in when I get back on the weekend here. But yeah, all in all, I feel like I've like, I'm pretty fit. And like, I've watched a number of videos on the course and like past courses. And maybe I'll ask our resident trail expert at some point, Chris McClung, finisher of a rocky little race recently, some hot tips on running in the rocky situations, because there's a little bit of that. But yeah, I think just general fitness will be good. And I'm healthy. I've been running with the 12 pound pack on second runs. That feels like doable. It's hot. I've been managing that fine. So I think that all the pieces are there. And if they're not, all right, we'll go troubleshoot while we're out there, which I think you're going to have to do anyways. So I'm excited. That's awesome. So exciting. How's your running going, Kara? I feel like it's, I've heard good things. So I want the update. Yeah. So it's been going really well for me. Last week, I ran 45 miles, which is the most I've run in probably a couple of years. I really wanted to do, I know I'm going to have it down because we go to Boston tomorrow, Wednesday, the day this comes out, because Colt's racing. What day is the race? It's Thursday. Okay. The 12th. What time? He races at 2pm. I'm not sure which heat he's in. I think there are three heats. That's so funny. This is connecting the dots. I'll be there. I fly in tomorrow. To Boston? I fly out Friday. Yeah. Oh my gosh, you should come to the meet. I have an event around like seven, six or seven. So yeah, that's okay. If it's you, we'll connect. We'll connect. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. More. So yay. Okay. Cool. So he races Thursday and then we fly Saturday then to St. Martin for a week. And so I know my running is going to take a little step down, which is totally fine. I'm not training for anything. But I wanted to get a 10 mile run in, and I had this plan to go to Davidson Mesa yesterday. It's like this big Mesa that overlooks Boulder. It's amazing. And a friend met me out there and we get out of the car and it's like blowing like crazy. And I'm like, I don't want to do this. This is not going to be fun. You know that feeling of just like, I'm just enjoyable. Right. So we make this plan to go the only place that semi-sheltered in Boulder is the Creek path, but like I haven't run on pavement or cement like that. The most I ever run is like two or three miles. And so this would be saying we're going, I'm going to run out five miles and back five miles. And I'm like, let's just go for it. So we go, we run and I did it. I ran 10 miles on cement yesterday. And I was definitely tired by the end, but there's no way I could have done that two months ago. That's wild. And I was kind of tired all day. And then today I was like, I don't know if I should run. And then I was like, well, I'll just get in the lever. And then I ended up feeling great. I ran in the lever, which was like the right choice. Yeah. But I guess I kind of want to share this, but I also don't want to make a bigger deal out of it than it is. So I'm going to share this with hesitation. And also sometimes I forget when I'm talking to you, I feel like I'm talking to you and I forget that like a bunch of people are going to hear this. So I'm going to share this. And I don't know what's going to happen from sharing this, but so I was feeling very, very, and I think you know this, I was feeling very, very overwhelmed with life. I think it's been like a combination of like everything with sales are my mom getting sick last year, then everything happening in Minnesota. And I just was feeling so overwhelmed. And I think like probably a lot of people can relate to that. And I've been in therapy and all this stuff, but I haven't been, I've never taken any medicine. And so I met with my doctor and like couldn't stop crying. And she was just like, Hey, why don't we try this baby tiny dose of the tiniest dose of the antidepressant of the baby is antidepressant that we can try. And I'm like, okay, I'll try it. And I kid you not within a week, I could run not 100% normal, but like noticeable. And then I'd be out walking with Adam and he'd be like, wow, your stride looks so good. And so people around me were noticing it. And then my friend Trevor, who I run with was like, I can't believe how well you're running. And I'm like, could it be due to this medicine? So I had my doctor shout out Dr. Coco Dugi. She's the best doctor ever. I love her to death. So we had to check in last week, because I've been on the medicine now for close to two months. And I'm like, I don't have any side effects. I feel I was, I'm very emotive person actually like that about myself, but it was out of control, you know, like, I was having a hard time functioning. And so I'm a little bit muted, which is probably not the worst thing. But I have zero other side effects other than I feel like I can run farther than I've been able to run in a really long time. It's like my dystonia is still there. Like I can see my stride in my shadow and it's still there. But I am not tense anymore. Interesting. Yeah. Yeah, like I wonder if that tension is also part of like, it's I mean, that's like the mental side, right? And like, physically you see it, you're like actually holding the tension of the mental side. That's interesting. Yeah. So we talked about it. We looked for some other studies. It looks like there might be some people who have gotten benefit. I'm not, see, this is why I'm hesitant to say, because I'm like sharing it because I don't want to like gatekeep anything I'm doing from anyone who might be struggling. But at the same time, I'm not saying like, this is a miracle drug. If you do it, you're going to be fine. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. We'll do a disclaimer. Kara Gautry. Yes. Not a doctor, not a professional. Not a doctor. But this is just my own experience. And we feel like maybe it could be related. Like I have been through like, there's just been a lot of stuff and maybe I was serotonin wise, just like depleted. And so I'm staying on the tiniest baby dose that they make. I'm going to stay on it and just see what happens. But all that to say, running has been really fun lately for me. And I've been outside way more than I used to be. Like I ran 45 miles last week in I think only eight of it was on the lever, which is like per-razy for me. I know. Don't you dare shake off that lever for good. I never will. And that's another thing we talked about is that like, you know, dystonia is a neurological condition. So she's like, don't be afraid to push it. But then I need to like actually schedule in lower weeks. And recover. Yeah. And it's like, it's not that the dystonia is gone forever. It's just like, maybe it is controlled a little bit better, but it's still there. So that's why I pushed it a little last week around 45 miles. I wanted to do this 10 mile run. And then now I have this time where I'm probably only going to be jogging two or three miles every other day or so. But anyway, all that to say, I'm kind of excited. I ran 10 miles on concrete. And now I'm thinking like, I mean, who knows, maybe I could run a half. She's eye in the calendar. If you are on YouTube, our eyes shift to the side. That is the calendar. There is a calendar, but that's not what it's about. I don't know. Not competitively, the competitive days are over. I am not physically able to do the training or mentally willing to do the training. But I'm like, it would be really fun to get in a corral and run a half marathon. So I'm, and who knows, like this is still new. Not gonna look free. Yes. Thank you. But anyway, that's a really long way of saying, I'm in a really good place and I'm trying to just let it ride. And I'm just trying to be open minded. And who knows what might happen. That's great. I love it. I mean, I think it's cool to hear that you found this solution and trying to do something else, but also, yeah, I mean, not being afraid, I feel like a lot of people are afraid of medicine. Yeah. You know, and like, let's just try something different. Let's tweak things. And then you can always change and move things around if you need to. But it seems like I feel like the emotionally mentally side, you feel, are you happy with that? Like, where that's at? Or is that something that you're like, well, we'll have to still work on it? Or is it too much? You can just ignore it. No, no, no, it's totally fine. Like, that's what I was saying. Like, I'm totally happy to share this, but I forget that like so many people are going to hear it and they're going to have opinions. But at the same time, like I am who I am. The first few weeks, I didn't like it because I felt like I was blunted. And I, but I do think as the next few weeks went on, I started, I regulated more. And I like, I'm back to crying. I just don't cry at all the time. I mean, I was like, when we were in Houston, I probably shouldn't have been doing a live show. Like to everyone who came, I love you. But I was mentally, I almost like didn't get on the plane, which is like totally insane. Like it's like, I'm, I'm feeling things so deeply that I'm camp function, you know? And I love that I'm a big feeler. I makes my high so high. I feel like I empathize with people better, but it was getting like, like it was hard for me to just do life. Right. Like, you can't be overwhelming. Yeah. Like when it's like, I can't do anything but cry and be upset for the state of the world. Like that's probably not healthy. You know, and I think like the situation and everything that continues to happen in Minnesota was sort of like the tipping point, but talking it through with my doctor, I think there's been so much that's gone on. Like I think my mom got sick last year. And I mean, I honestly didn't sleep for like six weeks because I was so worried about her. And I was going back and forth between Colorado and Minnesota. Like that took a lot out of me. Obviously everything before that that I had dealt with. And I think sometimes like we're good little soldiers, you know, and like I, and I was in therapy and everything, like I'm going to therapy, I'm doing the thing, I'm getting better. I'm a good little soldier. I can do this. But I think maybe I was like digging this emotional hole. And for whatever reason, everything that happened in Minnesota was like the tipping point, but it was like, I want to be able to feel, but I don't want to feel so much that I can't function because that's not good for me. It's not good for my family. It's just not a healthy place to be. So yes, my bottom line is like, originally I was like, I don't know if I want to stay on this. And now I'm like, I feel pretty much like myself again, just not erratic. Right. And I can run more outside, which makes me happy. Right. So there's like it. So at this point, I'm staying on it. Okay. Yeah. No, it's interesting. I like, I don't have the exact same experience, but when my thyroid hormones were really off, it was like, I'm not a crier, and I couldn't stop crying. It was like, I would like to die because this is not a like quality of life. Yeah. With how I feel, it just doesn't match up with who I am. And you're like, this, this something has to change or also this isn't, I can't actually get out of bed because I was just crying. So there's obviously a balance and yeah. So sometimes asking for help and getting help and things that you didn't think that you needed is good. Yeah, it was kind of funny because I had my annual with her. And like two days before I went in, Adam was like, so maybe you should talk to her about how you've been feeling. Right. It's always that. It's like so nervous. I was like, what do you mean? So the timing was perfect because I was already going to see her. But yeah, I just think it's funny because I'm not afraid to take medicine. But of course, like I said, I'm a good little soldier. So it's like even with injuries, I'm like, well, I can probably work through that or this or that. It's just like the way I'm wired. But now that I started taking medicine, it's been about two months. And now I see all this stuff on social media about people are overmedicating themselves this and that. And I'm like, it's just funny how that like now I see it. But I'm like, well, at least I can function. Right. Well, this doesn't sound like you're over medicating yourself. No, no, correctly doing. Yes. Yeah. Like, yeah, I mean, there's the other side of it where people just, you know, will rely on it for anything. Like, right? Try a few things first. I mean, I don't know. Right. There's extremes everywhere, right? Like people who need it and won't take it and people who use too much and all that stuff. I'll just say, I feel happier. I feel more at peace. I feel better in my body. And even though I get really stressed out still of the state of the world and stuff, like I can handle it in a way that doesn't cripple me. Yeah. Well, it's a good assist much like the lever. Yes. Yes. How you like that? So that's what's perfect is like I still always use my lever and she even said like, you can't just go crazy now. Like, you can go crazy and try, but like you're going to have days where you overdo it and then you need to go back on the lever. So today I ran that 10 miles yesterday on concrete. I was wrecked all day yesterday. I felt like, oh, maybe I overdid it. And then I woke up and I was like, actually, I don't feel that bad. But I was like, no, I'm going on the lever. Yeah. And I had a great run on the lever, got to watch Real Housewives of Beverly Hills and catch up. And so I think I'm not divorcing the lever. I'm just hoping to use it less and less. I like it. Well, again, it's an assist. And that can we just call that the lever lift me up moment of the show is very goucher. It's back in action. She's eyeing the calendar. And if you think a lever might assist your running, drop to the show notes and check out the code and get yourself a lever. Yeah, it's been a useful tool for both of us. So yeah, I love that. Okay, cool. That's good stuff. A lot of stuff in the running world as of late. That's not so good. So bad. We were just like, what are we going to talk about? And it's just gossip session. Yeah, there's so much hot gossip right now. I'm kind of like, we can get into it. I'm a little bit annoyed with the running community I feel like we're losing our minds a little bit. But I think the first thing we should talk about is because we talked about it last week is the half marathon situation with the women who were led the wrong way, just McClain and Edna Kurgat and Emma Grace Hurley. So what happened on the side of Atlanta track club? Yes, you want to dig into that? Yeah, let's dig into that. It looked like, I mean, it's to me and I don't, at the top of my mind, won't remember all the details, but it was an emergency, right? You have this emergency scenario where a police officer has gone down and there's a pivot in real time. The Atlanta track club did this really nice minute by minute, play by play of, you know, the men had gone through and then this emergency comes in and then they're responding and then, you know, the comms, it sounds like some people think they're responding. Some people think they're doing the same thing and it was a lot of confusion is my understanding. Yeah. Maybe you have more nuance there or you can correct me. No, I think they, one of the things that I appreciate is that they immediately like went to figure it out, like what happened? And then not only that, but they, so yeah, they gave this whole breakdown and the lead vehicle still went the wrong way, even though they knew the course, but I have to imagine like, I mean, I don't know. I don't know. Right? There's still questions and it's like, I'm sure they're figuring this out from an operational standpoint of like, what the heck went wrong and how do we make sure this never happens again? Yes. And what I appreciate about it is they didn't put their head in the sand. They like met it and then they have given their pain, just McLean, as if she won. So they're giving first place, prize money to two people. And then for Emma Grace Hurley and Edna Kurgat, since they were pretty close together, they add the second and third place prize purse together and are dividing that by two and paying them. So they're paying two podiums. And I just feel like, is this a crazy situation that shouldn't have happened? Yes. But now it's like, what do you do to try to rectify it as best as you can? The moments gone, all these things are gone, but like they stepped up right away and our pain, these athletes are looking into what happened. And I just owned it. Yeah. Yeah. I just want to be, yeah, basically I want them to get some credit for owning it. Right. Yeah. Obviously, they don't want this mistake to happen. That's not how they intend to run races. And you can look back and say, well, last year and the year before, and they do have things that they're probably going to look a lot closer now at how they're doing things. Unfortunately, because there's been a number, like a repeat cycle here. But I mean, with all that said, they like, let's make this right and not just take care of the operational side, but let's take care of the athletes and make sure they feel whole at the end of this, which again, moments and all of that stuff can't be replaced. But it's a absurd scenario where all these little things happened and what are the likelihood that this happens again? Hopefully very, very, very low. We'll leave it at that. It's great. But we'll talk about it. In Atlanta. Yeah. And so then a couple of days after that, I guess it was Thursday or Friday, USA TF made an announcement saying that they took a little bit of the responsibility as well. I wish they would have done that right away, but I appreciate them owning part of it as well and saying that they're going to have a new rule where there has to be a course martial at every turn, which just makes sense. And they said that they were going to be giving the women ranking points, just trying to help them get qualified. So I talked to someone from USA TF and I don't want to say anything that would break their trust, but essentially they're like, on my biggest concern is these women thought they were making a team. And they lost the moment, they lost the prize money. We can't do anything about the moment. Atlanta Track Club has stepped up for the prize money, but I want to get these women named to the team. And so by giving them these points, Emma Grace Hurley and Jess McLean now get higher in the ranking system. So if people were to pass their spots, they're closer in line. The problem is Kerr got still isn't ranked, even with the points she would need to go race again. Now they did say in their press release that they're trying to do something else as well. And that they'll be meeting with World Athletics or World Athletics is meeting, I think March 18 and 19, something like that. And I know what it is. And I actually spoke to you about it, but I don't feel comfortable sharing it right now. But I do like the fact that USATF is really trying to write this and not just for the women who went off course, but for everybody involved. Right. Right. Well, yeah, it goes to the people who were fortunate enough to not get taken off course. And they did all the things they were supposed to do. So then, I don't know, you don't necessarily think anyone feels entitled to it, but that's your top three. That's your podium, right? So now you have to treat them like they did something wrong. And then there's people who've qualified via time or at least are ranked really high. So there's all these other people involved who've done everything correct. And they're impacted as well. So, right. Like the podium who did end up finishing in the top three, I feel bad for them because I don't even feel like even if they had finished, let's just say they had finished four, fifth, sixth instead of first, second, third, they still had great days. Right. And they don't get to like enjoy it. It's like this awkward thing hanging over it. So I like that USATF announced two podiums for this meet. You know, points were going to all six of them. And I know that they're trying to do something else as well that I really hope works out. But I wish USATF hadn't passed the buck originally and been like, well, there's nothing we can do Atlanta Track Club. But I like that now it's like a couple days in, they were like, we shouldn't have done that. We need to take ownership. We should have been out on course better. We should have. And I appreciate that too. How much is the knee jerk response from fan reaction being so quick? You know what I mean? It's like raw. Like I don't know how to articulate it, but then it's like, shit, we have to say something because right, well, the thumb gangsters are out there. Right. And and then they just go like, we're going to pass the buck. And we're, if there was a little bit of space and time, maybe this was always in the work, but it's like you have to just get something out the right away. I know. And I'm guilty of that too. But I think that we are super guilty of that. And we're going to talk about a couple of other things today where I think it like shows this trend where we could all maybe take a deep breath, myself included. I was upset because there was also a national championship that day indoors in Staten Island where I was. And I felt like, oh, Max Siegel should be talking about this. But now that I'm reflecting, I'm like, I mean, I still think you should acknowledge it. I do know that he ended up calling the three women who went off course as he should and apologize, which I think is a great move and is necessary. But now looking back, it's like there was so much going on on that one day. Right. Like, yeah, like, let's make this right right now. But also we have a national championship that's on live TV right now. Like, I, you know, I, I, my initial reaction was this is inexcusable. And I still kind of feel that way. But maybe I could have been not quite so bitchy about it. No, I think it's just the expectation of how we get our news. And I think that everyone's moved that way. And like, it's not even a recent thing. I mean, when Max Siegel said something about Shelby running in the trials, because like, maybe it'll get overturned, like this was back when Shelby tested positive and that came out to light. And I was like, well, there's appeals. And I remember being like, the fuck is this guy talking about? Like, oh, me too. Like right away, you know, and it's just like, this is, and so that's the knee jerk for me. Or it's like, if you don't have something productive to say, like maybe you haven't been informed right, but that's a terrible statement, in my opinion. And then I get grumpy. And then so I can understand like, okay, let's not say anything until we have the right thing to say. But then at the same time, it's like, if we don't say anything, then it's like, people are pissed about that. So I don't know, I just think it's a really, really tough spot to be in. And you're right, like as fans and observers, we could all take a deep breath. Yeah, in every scenario. Yeah, in every scenario. I think maybe like the proper reaction would have been like, we apologize, we don't know exactly what happened, but we are going to figure it out. We're looking into it. We're looking into it. And we're going to own it, you know, and now they have a maybe that's just like a lesson moving forward is to just like, take ownership right away. You may not have all the answers, but obviously it's our championship. But all this to say, we were, I don't remember if I was heated last week or not, I probably was, I seem to be these days. But pretty level. I feel like the right people are stepping up from both organizations and no, we cannot go back and rerun it and that sucks. So but, but so we can't, that's just like, it's just like with dopers, like you just can't go back and do it. But what's the next best thing? And I do feel like both organizations are working hard to do the next best thing. And I think that's important to acknowledge. Yeah, well, and some of this stuff, again, you hope it doesn't happen again, but it also sets precedent for the future and how you're going to respond to situations. But also, and I think this is an interesting thing is like, what rules you tinker with and what things you might let happen, or, you know, okay, this is how we're going to fix it, does that set a precedent for the future of like, Oh, I rolled my ankle on your course. I know you've done this in the past. So it's very delicate. Yes, I would say. And I think that, in my opinion, the less you can give us a TF the opportunity to have impact of overruling or naming a team or selecting the better. And I feel like they're almost cognizant of that too. Like we don't want to be in that position. And we don't want people to have that precedent to come in and make a stink in the future. So I get why it's taking time and why it's like, okay, we have to be, it's delicate. It's not just like, yeah, let's change it. This is obviously wrong. It is in this scenario. But what does that do for the future of teams and the sport and so on? I think that's a really good point, which is why they're going to World Athletics right now for this to ask for something else to happen. But that's such a good point does like, if they change the rules so that in unforeseen circumstances, they can name a team. Well, all of a sudden now, that's a very dangerous situation to be in. And we can think of a million reasons of where that could go wrong. So I think it's taking longer to get like the final answer. But this is the right way to do it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Speaking of a hot takes an anger. Hot takes an anger. I don't want to name names. I didn't even see the hot take. There was a hot take on threads. People wanted me to respond by the time I went, it was gone. It was that hot. It was that hot. And then I started seeing people talking about charity runners. So then I had a hot take on charity runners, which then was used in an article, which is always kind of funny to me. I'm like, wouldn't you just run that by me? Like, hey, can we use your, I mean, I know it's public, but still whatever. Anyway, which I stand by my hot take on charity runners, which is that if you're dunking on charity runners, you need to like, look at yourself in the mirror, like they're raising money for chair roti. They're bringing all these people in. Anyway, but I guess all this came from this one post of someone who had run a very fast marathon, but didn't get into New York City marathon. And didn't get into the elite side. And then was like, basically, I don't know, did you see the exact quote? No, I saw it later because someone had screenshot it. But basically it was like, I train really hard and there's going to be charity runners. And I deserve to be there, essentially. Maybe it was a little bit ruder than that. But this is a bad take. I don't like it. Like, don't dunk on charity runners. Don't make fun of other people. But this escalated so much. Did you see any of the chatter about this? No, I'm actually, I'm gonna be honest, I deactivated threads. I haven't been like, like, I do feel like some of this stuff, my mental health, I'm just like, I can't read everybody's meltdown about everything every day. And so I'm just like, I bought a brick, the thing that turns your phone off from like, the fucking internet, your text and everything and like scan it. Yep. And it's actually been really nice. But obviously for our jobs and keeping up on the stuff, I've seen some of it and tried to touch on it before we get on this pod. But yeah, I was like a 259, correct? 259 or 257, it was fast. Yeah. Yeah. And the commentary was crazy. Like, I get that this person put it out in public. And I think you can clap back then. You can be like, no, that's dumb. But what scares me is when people start contacting your employer. Yeah. Right. Like, if you have a take that you're better than everyone else about running, the rest of us as the running community can just be like, no, you suck. But I just feel like people are actively trying to ruin this person's life. And I mean, maybe I'm wrong, but I'm just like, what are we doing? Like, what are we doing? Like, they showed, and also maybe it was a, I don't know this person. So I have no idea. But maybe it was just a bad take. Like, I've had so many bad takes in my life. Sure. And then you're like, oh, sorry. Like, whoops. Whoops, that sucked. I shouldn't have said that. You know, but it's like, but then to, I don't, I mean, I don't know. It just feels so extreme. And I just feel like, guys, like, it's one thing to have a funny clap back or to be like, that hurts my feelings. I raise money for charity and I totally hear you. And I think you have the right to say that when someone pubs, post something publicly, but they took it down. And then to like keep going after them. Yeah. Like, here's the LinkedIn page. Let's make this person famous. Like, that's the big thing. What are we doing? They're fired from their job. They shouldn't be able to send their kids to school. Right. I'm just like, move. You're like, guys, calm down. Like, just, just block them. Like, I have people with way worse takes that's crazy. And I just block them. It's completely okay to just disagree with people. Right. Yeah. I don't think that you're correct. Right. But then I'm going to go on living my day. Right. In my, like, yeah, you can just disagree with someone and not have to attack them. Yeah. It's pretty wild to watch. And it's like, it's like ever, I mean, it's, it's so funny that you said that you're not on threads or Twitter anymore. Ironically, I went off of X because it just got me upset every time I was on it. And then if I did say something, people would be like, are you in here forever? Is it because Brooks is silencing you? And I'm like, what? I'm not here because people like you fucking suck, you know? So I'm just done. I still have it, but I'm not on it. I'm not active on it. And threads has like kind of started morphing into that. And there's a lot of things I love about threads because I love the hot quick takes and I love like, I'm one of my favorite things to do on threads is just scroll like running and then see people posting PRs and just like liking it and just like seeing how much people love running. It makes me so happy. But yeah, I'm just like, this whole situation is just so out of control. And I think we all just need to take a deep breath and not try to ruin someone's life because they said something's naughty. It's, it's really interesting. And like, I think you can watch that movie, social networking on Netflix. And just like the goal is to keep you on there as long as possible. I liked threads too. I thought it was like, when it started out, it was kind of fun. You find your communities, whatever. But yeah, I think it's largely built on like rage bait, right? Yeah. And I do think that the Meta platform has a monetization piece to it as well. So it's like, if you get enough engagement, like you, they'll cut you a check, right? And so some of these people just put crazy shit up there. And they're getting paid for all the rage that happens beneath. And it's like, I'm just going to light this on fire and walk away. And it's not even about having a conversation or it, you know, it's just keeping people on the platform as long as possible. And so that stuff is unsettling. It's not really productive, you know, I'd rather, I'd much rather like get on the phone with someone that maybe I disagree with, but we can have a conversation about something. And then we hang up and like, we're still friends. Right. But we just like, oh, like I didn't see it from that perspective. Thanks for giving me this side of the conversation. I hadn't really thought about that. Where the platforms now are like, you're never going to see the opposing side. Right, totally. Yeah. And I mean, like, I, I love threads. I love calling out like stupid things, like influencers that just give people the worst advice. And so I guess I am totally guilty of this as well. But I try to do it in like a Minnesota nice way or whatever. But I cannot fathom calling someone's employer. That's insane. Like that's happening to me. That's when you need a brick. I wish brick was the answer to this. Like, hey, before you call, why don't you brick yourself for a week? Yeah, I remember when after the 2016 Olympic trials, there's this let's run interview me and I swore. It's like this, this video, I've never even watched it until I had to go when Alberto in the first hearing with Usada that his team was going to show it to show that like I'm crazy or something. So I watched it. I had never watched it. And I'm like, Oh, it wasn't even that bad. I just like swore. I think I called them like 200 pounds of shit or something. Yeah. Remember. Anyway, after that interview, I was at the time sponsored by Wazzill and Schedules and they both got emails and phone calls about like dropping me. You should be rid of her. Yeah. And fortunately, they were both like, yeah, for they were like, this is what represents you. And fortunately, they didn't care. But so I've been like on that side of it. And anyway, it just you don't have to like this person or like they're taking you can let them know. But I don't know, I just feel like we should all just take a deep breath. And then that brings us to the LA controversy. So first, I think we should talk about, well, do you want to talk about like the controversy or do you want to talk about the race? Let's do the controversy. And then we'll end on that's not even a high note. We can hit the note and then hit the high note. Okay. Okay. So extreme temperatures and in the days leading up, they come up with this compromise, which is that the runners go by the 18 mile mark or go by the finish line at the 18 mile mark. So because of these extreme temperatures, we're going to have an option. You can make it at that. You can decide at that moment to go in and finish at basically 18.2 miles, or you can go out and loop and do the full 26.2. I read this and I'm like, actually, it was sent to me on an NBC text thread. And they're like, what do you think of this? I'm like, I think it's a great option. You know, there's a lot of people who don't live in warm temps. It's winter, a lot of first time marathoners. The only other option is to cancel it or to have a cutoff point. If you aren't finished by the time the temps get this high, it's just done. I think this is a good safe solution. And then they're like, well, what do you think about them taking a medal? And I'm like, I couldn't care less. But apparently a lot of you cared about it. And it kind of blew my mind. I let my take be known. And there was a lot of people that agreed with me, but a lot of people that were like, I would never take a medal. They didn't actually run a marathon. It was a glorified long run, which by the way, so was marathon. I just was kind of like, I got to say, I was a little bit disappointed, I guess. Like who cares? I wonder how many, I wonder if there's crossover between the people who are now upset about this, but we're also upset about like a track Smith making a qualifier only. You know what I mean? It's like, oh, yeah, I couldn't get that. So I'm pissed. But now you're getting what I have. So I'm pissed. You know, like, is it the same group of people who just want to be grumpy? Or is it? I don't know. Is it a totally new group that's like, well, this excludes me. So I'm pissed. All I kept thinking was nobody would ever fucking call us the leadest again. Some of these replies in my comments were like, if they want to be a quitter, that's on them. They don't deserve a medal. And I was like, Oh my God, when they signed up for the race, they signed up for 26.2. It's unforeseen circumstances. And also like, if they take a medal, let's just say they, they're like, I feel great, but I'm going to end at my 18. And I'm going to hold up my medal. I'm going to tell everybody around the whole thing. Who cares? Everyone calls it a five K marathon anyways. So just say you run the 18 mile marathon. I just think like, and all their results are different. If your chip went and made that turn at 18 miles, it's in the results. It's like, I mean, do you have, did you think it was a bad idea? Not particularly. I just, it doesn't impact me in any way at all. If someone wanted to do that, and it's just like you live with your results. If you're like, I'm going to do it and then I'm going to brag. I think you're kind of weird. Like, you know, like, it's kind of strange, but okay, whatever. I mean, there's just not a real problem. Yeah. Yeah. And it doesn't take away from anybody. I mean, I don't know. I guess if also the other side is if you think that, that takes away from your achievement of marathoner, like it doesn't, you know, there's like plenty of people who run marathons every weekend across the world. And it just, I think it just makes those people a little strange that you, it's not even just making that decision. It's if you did got the medal and then bragged about finishing 26.2. I mean, if you finished 18, you felt terrible, but you're like, well, they're handing them out. And I flew out here and I trained and I just wanted, because it was part of the package and they've given me this option. I don't see the problem with it. I mean, did they offer a deferral? Was it like we won't do deferrals, but you can do this. They didn't offer a deferral. And that's what a lot of people in my comments were like, they should have offered a deferral. But I kind of feel like people, it's a couple days before they already have their flights, they already have their hotels. This is basically what I was saying on the NBC text read. They've already done the training. I actually feel like this is a good situation. It's going to be noted in the results if they ran 18. If they decide to post on Instagram and be like, I PR by 30 minutes and that's just sad for them. Right. It's like, okay, strange, but okay, go replicate that. You won't, but it's like, this is another situation where I feel like we're just getting mad to get mad. And this story just caught on like crazy. Like I started to see random people who have nothing to do with running and some of that do be like, they cut the LA marathon short. No, no, no, they didn't. You had the option. Yeah. And it ended up being only 3% of people took the 18 mile option. And 2.5% probably really needed it. Like, yes, probably made the adjustments or, you know, just flying in from the East coast and you're like, I can't do this. Like I actually have to stop at 18 or else it's dangerous. Right. And it's like, there was someone that was saying, and I'm not trying to call you out, whoever you were, like you, you know, they are not marathoners. Well, in this one race, they may not be, I agree with you. I know how long a marathon is. It's 26.2 miles. I've run quite a few. I get that. I get that they're not, but I'd rather have them peel off at 18.2, get a medal that says 26.2, then have someone have a serious health issue. Right. It does. If they want to hang that medal up, I don't fucking care. I mean, that's the thing is like, also, if you got to 18 and you're like, shit, I can't finish, you had the option to not take the medal. Right. Yeah. Just not take it and be like, I'm not a marathoner. And I'm sure people did that too. I mean, I would love to know the count of people that actually took it, I mean, and posted on social and told their families, like, it's probably a really small number of strange people. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Well, I'm glad we're in agreement. It was interesting because it was like, a lot of people were like, I'm surprised by this take by you. And I was like, Oh, why? But I'm surprised that you feel so strongly. Like, I'm legitimately don't get it. And a lot of when I said, I mean, I started answering back like, I legitimately don't get it. People are like, people are short changing themselves and this and that. And I'm like, you're actually making that assumption. You don't actually know. This is before the race even happened. Like they were making it sound like 90% of the field was going to take this 18 mile option. And I just kept thinking like, I cannot believe that some of these people called us elitist. That's funny. Yeah, I think yeah, it's been it's been an interesting couple weeks. I feel like sports news is quiet or something because you're seeing a lot of running topics on like more mainstream sports news. And I gotta say, I'm not sure it's the best news. It hasn't been great looks for us. Yeah, like I bar bar still had a few things. And I was like, Oh, this is uncomfortable because basically like stop whining. This is the dumbest thing to complain about. And you're insufferable. I'm like, Oh, talk about like they also had KipliMos world record in the half, which was great news. Very cool that they showed that and they showed Nathan Martin's finish. Okay, we can get to let's do that. Because we actually have a little another little something we want to do. So I was so pumped about Nathan Martin winning the LA marathon. I just feel like he he's the fastest born black American marathoner. He kind of is he's a teacher. He just is kind of a grinder. We always know he's in the field, but he never really gets a lot of love. And the way he won was epic. Yes, like looking like a sprinter running down Michael Cam, Camel. And the like he beat him by one 100th of a second. The overhead shot is epic. And you're probably if you're listening to the show, you've probably seen it, but if you haven't, go find it on Instagram or wherever you get your information. Yeah. So I'm just like so pumped for him. I was like showing it to Adam and Cole. I'm like, this is the nicest guy. He finally gets his flowers. He finally gets attention. Like I'm so happy for him. This couldn't happen for like a better athlete. Right. And then dammit, yesterday I see this footage of at an hour, no two hours, nine minutes and 41 seconds. So you know, like what a minute 30 out from the finish, the leader going the wrong way. Yeah. And it definitely cost him more than a hundredth of a second. That was such a face palm because I think he was fine. I think he was on track. I think he was aware that the people were supposed to exit the course. I think and they just like there's fans in the course and they kind of sort of blocked the obvious route is what it looked like to me. And then it was just like, oh, shoot, I've like this gate is cutting me off. I'm on the wrong side of it. Actually, they yelled at him. Yeah. But I don't think it would have taken more than a few steps to realize it because he was clearly off of like, I don't see the finish shoot anymore. Yeah. I mean, and it cost him, I don't know, easily 10 seconds. Yeah. I felt like watching it, like the woman running with him was a fan of his. She was excited, but I feel like she threw him off a little bit and kind of like disrupted his vision. And even though the course Marshall was like this way, she kind of like threw him off and he kind of ducked to go around her and he just went the wrong way. It wasn't on the like the best efficient route. And then he was like, oh, I can cut across and there's the barrier there. Right. And so looking back, I'm like, well, shit, I really feel for him. Yeah. And people, you know, again, in the comments, it's like she ruined it course or he needs to know the course or course Marshall is this or whatever all the different scenarios are, which is all up for debate. More importantly, the prize money and the win are significant and that's like the stuff like, yeah, I mean, you can point fingers at all you want, but how do you make this guy whole or is it not your problem? I know. So it was interesting because, you know, we were all up in arms about the half marathon. And then I saw a lot of like, well, that was on him. They went the right way. He followed the wrong vehicle. He was probably told that at the meeting. She didn't really get in his way. And I just felt like, well, we can still be angry for him. We can still be like, that sucks. Like there may not be the perfect place to like point our anger, but we can still be like, I mean, he's, he's in the last point to the marathon, basically. He's tired. Does the race organization owe him anything in this scenario? I wish I wish that, you know, there was someone there on the other side of that gate. I mean, you're going the wrong way, but I wish that there had been, I just wish it was more clearly marked like you're at the end, you know, like, Leigh Carr's wint in front of him went the right way, but then one peeled off. And I really feel like it's not the woman's fault, but I do think that she kind of confused, like he just threw him off a little bit. Yeah. And I don't think we should be having fans running on the course. That's an interesting one too. I mean, I think that goes back to Boston, like 2019, 20. Yeah. But yeah, I think, I don't know. I don't know if it'll be a scenario where there's just more barricades, you know? I think I get like the enthusiasm and the wanting to help and support, but I just feel like it can be a dangerous situation. And I'm not blaming that woman. I'm not blaming the car that went the other way. I'm not blaming the course, Marshall. I just think it was like a comment and I'm not blaming the athlete. I think it's a combination of all these things happening and you're tired and you're fatigued and you get a little bit thrown off. And all of a sudden, I mean, he definitely lost a lot of time there. And I'm not saying that Nathan Martin doesn't deserve to win. I'm not saying any of that, but I feel like he came back, he went the wrong way, had to come all the way back, turned around, saw and Nathan Martin, I was like, Hawkeye. It got a lot closer. It got, yeah. That gap that I was trying to close down just shrunk significantly. And it was still a lot. He still had to kick like crazy. I don't want to take anything away from him. This just complicates everything for me a little bit. I'm not saying he doesn't deserve to win. So it's not like it complicates that. It just is like the feel good story doesn't feel quite as good. Right. It just takes something away. Again, it's in, I don't know how preventable those things are. And I guess I go back to last week and it's kind of like a human error. There's things that happen. It takes a whole bunch of things lining up in the perfect storm for this stuff to happen, but that's kind of life. And I don't want to like minimize it. But if you start taking too much out of it and you're like, oh, we're just going to put barriers up the whole way, then do less fans go? Is it less exciting for their runners? Is it, you know, if you have an emergency, can vehicles get off the course? And then it's like, oh, they can't. So now we're just going to cover it with drones. I don't know. It just kind of start feeling a little sterile and less fun. Yeah, that's a good point. You know, it's a really good point. Yeah. I don't know. What's crazy is last week, I was like, this won't happen again anytime soon. Right. Like as we were talking it through, I'm like, this isn't going to happen until long. And then it happened exactly seven days later. Right. Which is funny. I mean, I think the conversation and you've talked about people at USA TF, I'm sure other organizations, I've talked to people at different races and it's like, well, we went back and looked at everything. Yeah. What are we doing? How can we make it better? How can we tighten up? What are the learnings? And like, there's so much, every race out there is thinking about it. And it's almost like LA, it's like, we got to figure this heat thing out and we're doing this and it's just like such a close timeframe. But yeah, yeah, I'm sure they will go and revisit it as well. I just, I still wonder, one, if we hadn't seen that video, were they going to do anything for this athlete? Probably not. Now that we've seen this video, are they going to do anything for this athlete? Yeah. Oh no. I know. I see. TVD. Yeah. Cool. Okay. Well, I think that's all the hot goss. I think we have, we're going to do a little top five and then we have a special guest to end the episode. Okay. He can, it can be our fifth. Yes. Okay. So we each have to come up with two things. Okay. Okay. I have one. Go for it. Start. Okay. So we, in Boulder, we finally got some snow. It didn't really stick. It just stuck on grass, but which we needed desperately, but it was basically like a rain, but unfortunately, it canceled the first outdoor track meet of the year, which was supposed to be on Saturday because the field was wet and all the pits were really wet so they couldn't do any field events. So Adam reached out to the Boulder High Coach and was like, Hey, would you just want to meet up and do a time trial? And it was so awesome. We show up at like 10 o'clock at a middle school track in Boulder. Lane one is, it's, you know, 70% clear, but we start brooming it and the sun does the rest while the kids warm up and end up having this awesome mile time trial, like colds getting ready to race so that he really needed like a hard effort and it worked out great. And you know, honestly, Adam was the one who came up with the idea and only two kids from his school came. Oh no. Eight or nine kids came from Boulder High, but it was just awesome to see like the schools come together, the kids come together, a bunch of parents came out, we just teared them on, they all ran a hard mile. And then they went and like did a workout, Boulder High did, and they invited Colton Theo to come do it with them. So they just jumped in and did their workout and it just made my heart so happy to see the kids from different schools just being like, yeah, let's work out. And then they were all wishing Colt luck this week. It was just awesome. So I just want to shout out all the Boulder High boys that came and ran with Colton Theo. It was really cool. I like that. That's a good feel good. Yeah. And I'm glad that Colt got the work in. Yeah, he did. This Boston race that I'm going to be watching. Yes. All right. I'm going to go with Jacob Kiplimo getting the world record in the half 57 20. I think he had it last year and it didn't get ratified, certified because of a course discrepancy thing. Again, stuff's crazy. You can't make it up. But he grabbed it this weekend and let's hope everything was official and it gets cleared to be the official record. Hold on. Keep talking. I want to put this into the calculator. You said 57. 57 20. 57 20. And he had run 56 42 at Barcelona last year. Okay. So just for all you track nerds out there per mile, that's 422. That's insane. That's coming through the 5K and 1335. So emojis in the wild. Cool. Okay. I'm going to go with just starting on friend Trevor Rhodes who met me at Davidson Mesa to help me through my 10 mile run yesterday and was a trooper when it was crazy windy, pivoted and we drove to a different location and ran it with me on a not so glorious route. And sometimes you just need a friend that'll show up because I probably would have cut it short and just been like, man, it wasn't meant to be if he hadn't been there. So thanks, Trevor. I like it. Okay. Well, there was some fun results this weekend. World qualifiers at Penn, Nathan Greene, Luke Hauser, Sean Dolan got the qualifier in the eight, I believe that's exciting. But I'm going to go with Grant Fisher. He's putting in the work. This is the final week. This is the taper week. A nice little workout video of him dropped. And he is going to debut in the half marathon next Sunday, this Sunday. Sorry. Yeah, coming up and that'll be in New York. So set your alarms and watch the broadcast. I'm sure road runners will have something on. I'm excited to see what he can do. I am too. Highly anticipated. It's going to be good. Yes. I will just say Grant Fisher doesn't do anything half baked. So I'm pretty excited to see what he does. Yeah. Are we going to see American course record? You can't have it's a point to believe or it's not close enough in start to finish and distance to be record eligible. And it's a tougher course, but I think you know, it was interesting watching him be interviewed at Milrose before he got sick and he was kind of like, I don't know enough about the distance yet. I need to go in and learn. But I'm assuming he's going to be fighting for the podium. I just, he's just so good. And he's so smart and he takes everything really seriously. Like he's not the kind of guy that races into shape or anything. So I'm assuming he's going to be up front fighting for the podium and he's going to be learning as he goes and applying in real time. Okay. So I think anything's possible. Anything's possible. Yeah. It's going to be a product of just racing. Yeah. He's not like, yeah, I don't think he's going to be super. I think he's going to be checking like, I can't go faster than X maybe, but I think he's probably mostly just going to be racing in whatever time comes, comes. Yeah. Well, it's definitely going to be worth watching because you'll also start getting previews for spring marathons of who's looking like what and how's the fitness coming along, who's DNFing, who's DNSing, who's running really lights out great. And so we have the little preview from Atlanta. Yeah. But yeah, the spring marathoners are popping out. Coming soon. Their buds are starting to sprout. We created analogy. Okay. So our fifth one we agree on, which is that our editor in chief, I don't know what else to call him, Chris McClung, who keeps this thing rolling, drum roll please, made the podium at the Moab, run the rocks this weekend, a three day stage race, and even more exciting, we suckered him into coming in and telling us a little bit about it. Chris, turn your camera on. Pony out. Chris McClung. Hey guys. What's up? I'm good. I'm good. How are you guys? First of all, thanks for having me on. You did have to go to me a little bit. I do have to shout out the women at this race because they crushed it. I was actually 10th overall behind seven women and two dudes. So yes, I was on the men's podium, but I'm ass kicked by seven amazing women on the international women's day. I think that was Sunday, right? Anyway, I feel like it's morphing into a week and then a month. Maybe. I heard people are pretty smart. But anyway, they crushed it. I was pleased also with my result. And yeah, it was a lot of fun. It made me excited for, for a desert stage race, even though this was a baby one. It's good that we chatted a while about it and I got some good learnings. Although I think that your situation sounded a little more plush. You're like, yeah, they went back to the hotel, then you rest on it. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. We had a central hotel. We went to different trailheads each day and this was intentionally chosen. You chose your bed to lay in. I wish it would be less plush next year. Now that I've heard about this, maybe I'll give it next year. But yeah, it was fun. Well, talk us through this because we are, well, we already chatted to you about it, but we, I think our listeners would want to know that you got third place. Do you have your word with you right now by any chance? No, it's down in my, still in my luggage. I'm not one of those like unpack everything people, you know, like I take out wear it, take a medal at my life. Okay. Well, you won something cool, but talk us through this because you, you told us you were running it. You mentioned it a couple of times, but you know, I didn't know you were going to be like up at the front. Well, I didn't either. I didn't know what to expect really. It's a three day stage race for context. It's put on by this group called the trans Rockies running group or something. They, their signature race is the trans Rockies run in Colorado there used to be a six day event. Now that's a three day event. They have other ones. This one was in Moab. You ran 12.2 miles on day one, 26 miles on day two and 13.5 on day three, kind of back to back to back. And you have to manage all of that and then get ready to go again. So anyway, but it was beautiful, amazing scenery, cool trails, good weather, some hard running. I did maybe work a little harder than I had bargained for as the friendly competition kicked in throughout the weekend, but it was a blast. Glad I did it. I'm more of a road racer typically, but it was fun to mix it up and do something new. What was your training like for this? So for me, I've just been all about the volume. I have not done a speed workout in probably a year and a half because I haven't been motivated to. So I've just been putting in the easy volume. So for me, it was lots of easy miles and strides and that was pretty much it. You know, and then of course some trail specific work on the trails around Austin. And then we did some hill, some easy running on hills just to repair the legs for the up and down. So how did you get roped in? I don't know if you want to name names, but how did you get roped into truly competing? Cause it sounded like, like, oh, I did some easy running, prepared. And then your expectations were like, I'm just going to go have a good time and then you finish on the podium, break it down for us. Well, to be clear, I knew that a heavy dose of easy running and I was running over 60 miles a week. I was up to 70 miles a week at the end of the block. So I knew that doing that plus strides was going to get me fit. So I wasn't going in thinking that I wasn't going to be competitive. I knew that I wanted to get decently fit so that if, if things came together that I could be competitive. And so I felt like, and plus did a bunch of strength training as well. So I felt like I was in good shape for what I had done, you know, what I was willing to do and motivated to do. And then it was a matter of, okay, let's just kind of see what happens. And I did it with a friend shout out to my buddy Adam here in Austin, who puts on a lot of the races for the Austin Runners Club. He had done the trans Rockies run last summer and he was like, Hey man, we should do this Moab one in March. So he kind of goaded me into it. I've been stage, stage race curious for a while. Oh, I like that term. There's a, there's a race in Europe that I is sort of on my bucket list because I don't really have a bucket list, but if I had a bucket list, it would be on it. It's called the trans Alpine run where you run, I think it's seven days through the Alps from Italy to Germany or something like that. And so that has always been kind of interesting and fascinating. I liked the idea of doing something hard, being able to sleep and then doing something hard and being able to sleep. I'm not a run through the night kind of person. So I'd always been curious about it. And then when he reached out and was like, Hey, we should do this. And it was a good time of year for us with kid schedules and stuff. I'm like, all right, let me see if I can convince my wife who was going to be staying home with our three kids navigating soccer schedules. And so she was on board. We decided to go do it. And so he go to me into it. He's hyper competitive. His goal was to beat me explicitly. He's like, I have one goal that's to beat you. And we always have a little friendly competition. We're pretty similar in terms of abilities. So we've raced each other before on the roads. So his explicit goal is to beat me. He's hyper competitive. So I know not to trash talk him that only fuels his fire. So I was just keeping my mouth shut. I was just keeping my mouth shut and, you know, let's see where the fitness goes and let's see what happens when we get out there. And he took himself out of the competition by taking a wrong turn on day two, which added about six miles to his whole race. And so that, that took him out of the competition, which he was leading from day one. I was ahead of him on day two. It was going to be pretty close. Hold on. Hold on. Go back to day one, because you had kind of a nightmare of a start. In my opinion, it's like, this is what I literally have bad dreams about. Yeah, I made some rookie mistakes, but the biggest one was showing up to the start line on day one without my handheld water bottle, which was going to be my primary vehicle for hydrating. I didn't want to wear a pack because I don't find those comfortable. And the races were short enough that, you know, you didn't necessarily need it and the aid station's close enough. So the plan was carrying a 20 ounce handheld every day. And I got to the start and realized with about three minutes of spare that I'd forgotten it in the car. Had everything else, but didn't have that. So I had to run to the car, come back, that put me at the back of the corral with 319 people in front of me. And so then we start and I'm, I'm in the back trying to navigate through people before the single track hits. Like that's right. Does do you have dreams like that? No, I try not to. That's terrible. Okay. It ended up being fine, but it was definitely a little more hectic than I thought, but my friend was lined up like second or third row. He takes off and ended up putting three minutes into me on the first day. I did claw my way back to 10th overall on the first day, fifth male at that point. And anyway, so yeah, it was, it was a hectic start rookie mistake on my part, not getting one of the most critical things. I am very glad I got the water. It would have, you know, in my head, I was like, maybe I don't need it today. It's, it's only 12.2 miles, but it's on trail in the desert. And that would have been a really bad mistake to not have that with me. And it was also a coupless race. So it's not like you can just, you know, grab a cup at the water station. So I needed it. I'm glad I went back. It made for a hectic start and a lot more adrenaline pumping in the first day than I probably should have had. But, but anyway, managed it okay considering the circumstances and then came back and had a really good, for me, day two. Let's brag a little. Tell us what happened on day two. The day two, I, I ended up first male again, got beat by that day. I got beat by five women and was sixth overall on the day. First guy across the line and was able to take first in the overall category or categorizations for men at that point and went into day three with a little bit of a lead, a couple of minutes over a couple of guys behind me. And I think this, when you were telling Des and I about this earlier, this stood out to me that you were like, and then all of a sudden you felt a little anxious, like you went from this one thing you're doing to your friend to like, dang it. Like I'm leading. Yeah. You know, I have mixed feelings about that part because I, I wasn't nervous the first day. I wasn't really nervous the second day. I was just at a, you know, healthy respect for the distance because there was 26 miles on trail with a lot up and down. You're like, that's basically a marathon on a challenging course. That's a lot. You know, like you have to have respect for that. And so I had, you know, sort of this just, you know, measured respect for that, but it wasn't nerves. It was just like, all right, this is going to be hard, you know, make sure you're being smart and executing well and taking care of your nutrition and hydration and all of that stuff. It was more of a workman kind of mindset on day two. But yeah, with the lead going into the last day, I was nervous. I was anxious. I was scenario planning. I was like, what, how am I going to attack this so that I can have the best chance? And when they did a pre race briefing every day and so they would go through the course for the next day. And as they were going through the third day, I was like, Oh shoot, this is going to be the most technical day, which is my kryptonite because I'm more of a road runner than a trail runner. And so I knew that it was going to be tough for me to hold onto a lead because the two guys behind me were very much good on trail. And so my only strategy was to try to go out hard before I got technical and see what happened after that. And I did that, but then they kicked my ass. Once the rocky stuff came, they kicked my ass and ended up putting, I don't know the exact numbers, but more than 10 minutes into me on the last day. And so that, that dropped me to the third spot. It's pretty solid. Third place finish for a fun run, intended fun run. Any plan to update the book with information on stage racing and trail running? Stage racing? No, no, that's a good question though. I feel like I'm just not an expert, you know, like I made some rookie mistakes. I have a lot to learn about this place. You know, I am a road coach and a road runner. So we'll leave that out of the book. But but yeah, it was a fun, fun way to mix it up. Definitely we'll do another one. I'll say, you know, I'll find another, I'll find another stage race to do. I'm not going to overthink that right now. You know, I always say you have to forget about the last race before you plan the next one, but there will be another one and we'll see what that MDS registration. Right? What's one thing you learned that would help? Does well, I mentioned it off, off line, but just talking about the hydration part, I was just, I was very on top of it, but I ended up having to drink way more than I thought. Not just, I mean, not really during the stage because there was only so much I could carry, obviously, but I was, you know, emptying my bottle between each stage station, which was 20 ounces. So I was getting 60 to like 120 ounces, 60 on the short day, 120 ounces on the long day on the course. And then I'd get back to the finish line and I'd just kept refilling that bottle with electrolytes with coke. I would have two full, you know, bottles of coke. Doesn't it taste so good? Yeah. Oh, the Coke was amazing. They had like a full 10 gallon cooler of Coke. And I would just, I would go first to that and have two of those and then I'd go electrolytes and water. And so I was drinking probably 250 ounces at 300 ounces a day and feeling like that was solid, you know, like not too much, not too little. And so just making sure you're on top of that, because, you know, you need it to obviously go, but also to repair your muscles between days. So, so that was critical. The other thing I think that was really helpful for me was just making sure I got a little bit of easy movement between each stage. So typically I'd hate to hang out at the finish line for a bit, but people were sitting down and they had this very cool finish line set up. They're sitting in lawn chairs around like propane fire pits, which was awesome. And I did that, some of that. But then I would get stiff. So I would get up and just move around constantly. And I would go like hike out on an empty trail and just, you know, kind of keep the legs moving. And I think that was critical to feeling okay, you know, the next day, the legs were sore each morning, but they definitely felt better than I thought. I think some of that gentle movement kind of in between stages was key. Okay. So good note. I'll keep that in mind. Well, we're so proud of you, Chris. Like you're just like our, people don't always see you. They know you exist because we talk about you, but you got your own thing going on. You got like a full family, a full job, a full life. And now you're a freaking podium finisher at the Moab Run the Rock. So we're proud of you, man. That's awesome. Thank you. And I have to shout out the organization. They do an amazing job. All their races are amazing. They're one in Colorado, Colorado is now called the pub to pass trans Rockies pub to pass. I have one in Big Bear, California, which is new this year. They have one in Canada. Anyway, they just do a great job. They're like laid back about the right things and organized and on top of it, about all the stuff that matters just created such a cool vibe. And they cared, you know, about everybody front to back, not just those of us on the podium, but those at every level and participation kind of tier. And I thought that was so cool. So highly recommend it. If you want to check out a stage race, this is a good way to start. They also have, by the way, two different distances. You could do the full pint, which they call it, which was like the full distance, as I mentioned, or you could do the half pint, which was about 60, 65% of the distance each day. So they have different options for those that, you know, want a smaller thing to bite off before they do more. And so anyway, got to shout them out. If you didn't get into New York, check this out. That's right. And there's a lot of you. If you qualified by 20 minutes instead of 22, then go check out TransRocky. Full pint instead. TransRocky stage race. Cool. Well, thanks for chatting with us. Thanks for having me on. All right. All right. See ya. Bye, guys.