Gabriela Hearst: Redefining Luxury Without the Hype

You stick to your calling, no matter what the storms are and you stick to it, you're going to make it. But when you make it, don't believe the hype. Because the moment you believe the hype is over. The last time I saw today's guest, she was butt naked in a sauna, being beaten with eucalyptus leaves by a man named Igor. My friend Gabriela Hurst also happens to be a legend in the design world. She's dressed everyone from Laura Dern to Jodie Foster to Zoe Kravitz. She even designed a dress for me last minute at the Med Gala. What I love about Gabby is how purpose-driven she is. She's been called the most climate-conscious designer in fashion. She produced the first ever carbon-neutral runway show and created one of the first luxury lines made for 100% recycled cotton. Something that really traces back to how she grew up on her family's cattle ranch in Uruguay, where sustainability was just a way of life. So I had to ask her how she's biohacking her body to keep up with everything she does. In this conversation, we talk about how far she'll go for sustainability, how a chance encounter in an elevator with a design legend changed her life, and her advice for anyone chasing a creative dream. I'm Maria Sharapova, and this is Pretty Tough. in preparation of the interview today I was like my first thought is what am I going to wear because I'm sitting across from Gabriella Hurst and usually in this position I think I need to wear your power suit because it's like a body armor I'm protected and I'm like why do I need protection today I know you so well so today I wore your jeans and your sweater and I feel like this is something that I'd come to your house and wear and have a tea or a glass of wine. Uh-huh. We're already starting like this. Emotional. Okay, we're going to go back to… No, I'm going to say, I love you so much. Oh, you're so sweet. And everything you wear looks amazing on you. Thank you. You need no armor. Thank you. You're very kind. So I want to go back to when we first met. Um, it was 2021 and it was one of these very last minute invites that I received to the Met Gala. I think it's like two weeks before the Met Gala begins and someone for sure dropped out and my invitation comes in the mail and I'm like, I don't have anything to wear. And I was working with a stylist named Edward at the time. And he said, I know who will do this last minute. And he immediately connected with you and your team. And they said, we will make a dress. So in two weeks, you make a dress. And the night before the Met Gala is the first time that I come in for the fitting. It's like 6, 7 p.m. And who shows up to the fitting? It's you. which I have to say is so unusual for anyone in your role especially in the fashion world the Med Gala is the event of the year for so many people in your industry so to see you there and being hands-on and I I think I'd love for you to like talk about why being hands-on is so important I think being hands-on is it's it's something I ran and learned from my parents from working in a ranch and you only get respect from your team if you work as hard as they do and so and you and that's the difference uh the care right and the detail i was speaking about your dress yesterday because we were talking about a sleeve and it's like remember maria's dress the sleeve yeah yeah and you had different layers and different fabrics the sleeve and so yeah i actually was speaking about this dress it was in my mind just it looked amazing yeah it was such a strong moment because like seeing you in that fitting room and being so hands-on in the process just made me realize that wow this is someone that is like just loves what she does loves what she cares about um I usually love to start these interviews with a quote and there's one that um that really struck me. And you say, no matter what you make, I want it to live in our client's wardrobe for the rest of their life. And hopefully their children will want to wear it too. And that's kind of the mere opposite of fast fashion of what we see today. Why does that quality mean so much to you? Because clothes was hard to make, right? Clothes was always a hand-me-down. I still, my mom, you know, we grew up in a rural environment and, but when the gouches clean up, which is like the South American cowboys, they clean up good. And so my mother would have a very small closet, but it was the things were made to measure to her and because they were not nice shops to to to have and so it was very few pieces but very beautiful and some of them i inherited and some of them are part of my gh first collection the garilla hearth collection that i first did i did a the year that she used to have with my dad's initials on it and and so it's this preciousness about clothes that But we just have to remind it that in so many cultures, it was always a hand-me-down. But what's the business case for that? Quality. Longevity. Yeah. Of carrying it with you throughout your life. It's a different path. It's a slower path, more solid. I feel like it's a mentality. Like I grew up not having, you know, access to a lot of clothes and and just many things didn't fit me because I was so tall and lanky and like all my trousers were very short. And I didn't think about like, you know, fashion any way other than I just needed to get dressed. But I remember moving to the United States and my mom saying it is so much more valuable buying a cashmere sweater than something that has sparkles or pink on it. And I think that was like, in a way, her, you know, her lesson about teaching me like good quality stands the time. I remember you and I had this conversation last year, perhaps, where I questioned you on an item from your collection. Yes, exactly. The hunter jacket. Exactly. What is it called? It's called the hunter jacket. And it was my favorite jacket at the collection that you showed in Paris, which I saw in person. and I thought when this collection comes out, I have my eyes on this jacket and it comes out and I see the price tag and I'm like, I think it was like six or $7,000 and I thought, wow, how many times am I going to wear this jacket? Is it really worth it? What is it made of? Why is it that expensive? And you spend the next several minutes explaining the quality and the material and you just completely like changed my mind on why I should pay that amount for something that I will wear over and over again. But to end that story, the next day I came back to my hotel room and I found that jacket that you sweetly sent, and that says so much about your generosity. But what was it about that material that makes it and the quality of that piece? Yeah, so I choose all the materials and pinpoint them. And that, I usually don't use cotton just because it absorbs too much water and uses a lot of herbicides and pesticides when it's not organic. So I tend to use linens. But this cotton, it's the cashmere of cotton. It's made in Barbados in small batches. And it's the most incredible structure of the cotton. And so it is a very expensive cotton. I think it's around 100 plus, 180 something dollars the meter compared to what a regular cotton would be. So it's very special. But that's what you need for longevity is quality. For example, I learned about quality from a utilitarian perspective because in the middle, in a ranch we're in the middle of nowhere. The town is two hours away. So you need to have things of quality so they last and they can meet the force of the elements. So for me, quality is part. It's not like a snuff thing. It's a part of actually longevity. And going back to the quality and details of the pieces you create in 2024, you did a custom gown for Lily Gladstone that had these tiny little silver stars arranged perfectly to match certain constellations and seeing you there with your own hands and thinking about the importance of that piece what does it mean to you to like work with someone that also has a vision right and a an idea and then come together and collaborate on well lily gladstone is such a magnificent person really really deep very regal She knows what she represents, how many she represents, and also all the ones that have disappeared that she doesn't represent. And she carries herself with such depth and warmth at the same time. She was really fantastic to collaborate. And so we did a constellation of how would you see the sky from the middle of America where her tribes were. And so, and it was a combination. We worked along with Taomi metals as well. Where do those inspirations come about? Is it from people? Is it from art? Is it from, I know you have many friends in different industries that expose you to different arts. and materials, but like where does all of this, to keep recreating collections several times a year, where do you get inspired from? I am, the biggest inspiration is mostly women. Women, stories of women, incredible women that history hasn't paid them the respects that it needs to pay them. And so I love women and I think that's the part that motivates me as well. And so most of my Liberation comes from women and the flight and the imagination and everything that women have done to get to the point where we are now and we still have to continue. Is there a conscious effort of knowing and placing your pieces on individuals that you admire and where you want to see your pieces being worn? Yes, there is for sure a conscious. I was very focused on who were the women that we were dressing. When we started, I knew I wanted people that if they had a limelight, they used it for the goods of others. So that was a very appealing characteristic for me to go. And one of the first people that we dressed that I really admire and she passed away, Cecile Richards, a great woman, great activist for women's rights. How do you, like from which point of view do you look at other female designers? is it um because like i yeah i kind of compare it like when i was an athlete and in my industry you are most of the people you face across the net are your rivals yeah um do you see camaraderies do you see them as rivals does it just depend on who it is and which fashion house they represent or yeah i'd love your your view on that first um there's not that many female designers. So I think first and foremost is yes. I, first is the empowerment and the knowledge that this is a, because it's historically um uh after the second war there were a lot of female designers uh Schiaparelli Lambin Madame Gray Chanel and so it it was an There were a lot of female designers Schiaparelli Lambant Madame Grey Chanel And so it was an industry led by a lot of female designers And I think first, it's that support that I respect because it's an intense job that demands constant creativity. Timelines are very, very tough. And you're in that cycle. and you have to, you know, have the kids, have the family. It's almost like a mutual respect. Yeah, I have respect. I feel like where you do your job. Actually, my favorite designers are female designers. Who are they? Well, Elsa Schiaparelli. She was a pioneer. She worked with Armenian refugees and got to work with Giacometti and Salvador Dali. I mean, it's amazing. Amazing. Her stuff was amazing. And Chitose Abe from Sakai and the late Vivian Westwood as well. Yeah, because in sport, I think you're so focused on like your own routines and your own wins and your losses and your team members that there is a mutual respect between one another. But it's very rare that you almost like go about your own business, right? You come to your office, which is the arena. You do your thing. You go to the hotel. You recover. You do it and it's this rinse and repeat. And although you admire and respect, because if you didn't have respect, you wouldn't get up and try to be better. To be a better player, to be stronger, to be physically fitter, mentally tougher. If you didn't have respect for your opponents, I imagine it's a similar feeling. Yes. But I also try to be in my, as you say, to be on my own lane. to just, as I purposely don't look at other shows and I ask my team not to do it. Of course, they're going to do it, but because if you have to do their homework, because if you're a visual person, it comes to your brain. And I work a lot with my subconscious. So a lot of, I don't work from vintage. I really sketch, we do the research. So I work with everything that is there. And so there is no way you don't get influenced. If you're a visual person and your information is from the eyes. But it's how do you apply that, right? It's a different. That's what makes you you. So after launching Gabriela Hearst, it's 2015. One of your friends says you need a bag. You have everything but a bag. Yes. And you create a sample for yourself. You're carrying it in an elevator. And take the story from here. In the elevator, I was only going to do maybe 25 of them. and I was going to give it to the people that I admired and owned the factory or high profile, but also people I worked with. And this gentleman, when I opened the bag, it's called the Nina bag after Nina Simone, and it opened in a special way, he says, oh, I would like one for my wife. And he gives me his card, and I said to him it's a prototype. He's heard that before. Yes, he did. And it was Johnny Ive from Apple. So Johnny Ive, the guy who made the iPhone at Apple, looks at your bag and says, this is a good one. I need one for my wife. Are you like, that's incredible. So I made the bag and made sure to make it because Johnny Ive wanted one. So imagine it was like a sign, right? You have to make the bag. So I made them, but I did not expect the hit that it became in such a short term. And I was a little wiser at that time. You know, I wasn't in my 20s. I was closer to getting to my 40s, my 30s. And so when the demand increased, I did not want to wholesale it. I didn't want to expand it. What's the thought process behind that? Because our company is based in long-term view and sustainability. So I didn't understand the business model of it. I didn't understand that I had to take the double amount of natural resources to make the same amount of money. Because it would be wholesaling in every single store in the world. So you'd lose a lot of profit. And then the other thing, so it's not from the environmental perspective, it did not make sense. And then from the perspective of maybe you want the brand to become very well-known really fast. But that doesn't sit with a long-term view. So it just didn't sit with our core values. And I used the bags to build our retail chain, our retail stores. So I would put the bags in the back. So when, because I would see that all stores have these, the bags in the front. And I like the bags in the back. So our first store, which is in Madison, the bags are in the back. So you would have to walk through the whole store to get to the bag. and stuff was... I gotta say, it's slightly annoying sometimes. Yeah. Because I'm like, I want to see the... I want that back. They're there. You can see them. You can grab them, but you have to walk. That's like a duty-free airport shop. Yes. Maybe it's a little supermarket, but it worked. It worked. I mean, it works for duty-free. Maybe they're inspired by you. I want to talk about the way you treat your body and the way that you treat your mind. Because it was really one of the most impressive aspects of like how you hold, you know, your mind and your body accountable for just the vigor of your industry. I remember when you were at Chloe for several years in your hotel room in Paris, you had a suite that was just full of biohacking equipment. I mean, one time I came in there and you had these recovery boots. I think there may have been an oxygen mask in the works. No, I didn't have an oxygen mask. I was like, this lady, this lady's doing more for her recovery than I ever was. You know what? What was it? I knew the flights and I knew how intense. And at the time, there was only Virgil and myself that were traveling by coast like that. Virgil Abloh. Yeah. So I thought it was very important to keep a healthy life for my children. I have small children. But I didn't have children. Maybe I wasn't bringing it. Maybe I was like, hello. I think he's still being. Well, you sometimes, no, it wasn't the oxygen mask. You were having a glass of wine while you were in recovery. I drink margaritas. That's my thing. You're also like one of the very few people I've met that is obsessed by the Russian sauna treatment. Oh, yeah. And I'm hardcore. You are so hardcore. And I think the last time we saw each other was I left you butt naked in the sauna, being beaten by eucalyptus leaves. But I want you to... By Igor. Igor. Shout out to Igor. He's the best. Yes, exactly. tell me about this treatment. I want to hear it in your words, what it is and why you do it weekly. From everything I do to make sure that the nervous system is calm, which is very hard to do, especially living in New York, living an intense life, but you have better ideas if your brain is calm. That's also to be in a meditative state, to not be so much in fight or flight. So from everything I do and I meditate daily, 20 minutes is enough or 10 minutes, whatever I can. I exercise daily, 30 minutes, whatever it is, I try to do body, mind, spirit. And from everything, the banya is the thing that I can go in and I've tested it many times. Not feeling great. Not feeling in the most… Exhausted. Exhausted. The brain. Fragile. You know, the pathways in the brain are going not in the right direction. You're not being the most positive person. I go into the mania. And the change from, it's like, for me, it's like a spiritual experience. It's like the heat. And it's a lot of Native American. And it's not just warm. It is brutally hot. No, and he like trained me. So he's like, every time it's like, where are we now? You know, it's like 185 Fahrenheit. He's like, your stamina is not that good. Yeah, he's like, oh, and then I do three rounds. So I do the intense hot, and then I do the cold plunge. So you get in the sauna. Yeah, he beats you up with eucalyptus. Right, not just, yeah. Yeah, he does. The eucalyptus leaves. It sounds like very pleasurable, but. In a way, it is, because you know how it feels afterwards. Yeah. And then he does the full round, and then you go to the cold plunge. Then he throws ice on me. That's the other thing. I said, can you crush them? Because I used to grab all this. You ask for it. I know it. And then after the hot and the cold, I feel that the most relaxed, I mean, the most relaxed. You lie down with a towel. You close your eyes. I mean, I can go there right now thinking of that. Is there another thing in your routine that you focus on for your mind or your body that is like a necessity for you? Meditation has become it and exercise has become it. First of all, I want to add the fact that I can impress you with something that I do with my body. You know what? No, I'm going to stop you. It's not even the, like, it's not the fact that you do these things. It's the discipline with which you do it. Because everyone can dabble in and out of, oh, I'll try this and I'll try that for my body. But you literally every single week and you meditate every day. Some people try meditation and they go on and off. You know that that's a commitment you have to make in order to see a difference. I just know it's good. And I want to enjoy life and be able to create. So ultimately you want to be as healthy as you can as a vessel to really be able to communicate properly. It's one of the things that I deeply miss about the sport that I did for so many years is like that feeling. And I don't know if it's because I'm a woman, but at the end of the day, when you give yourself like 110 percent and at the end of the day, physically, and you come home and you come to your hotel room or you come to your house after training and you just lay down on the sofa at your bed and you feel like you gave everything you have and like nobody's watching but you are so proud and you are so deeply in tune with just giving everything and letting it all go and you're like I did it you know I did I did what I can my body hurts I'm in pain but I'm so proud of this like that there's no better feeling and I and the trophies are great too but exactly but it does build a confidence in you right like the silent confidence of achieving those things and they don't have to be major things I want to be able to be i'm actually designing a ring that it has this sign of positive to just make sure that i'm training my brain constantly because we i get so bombarded by so many things right now it's like our life is becoming smaller and smaller in in the way of how fast is going so i i want to be always i want to wear it here reminding myself positive positive positive constant focus on that focus on that focus on that and in the relationships with the people you love yeah hey I'm Matt Buchel comedian writer and floating head you may or may not have seen on your FYP and I'm starting a brand new podcast wait don't swipe away it's called That Sounds Like A Lot I'm going to start by breaking down whatever insanity is happening in the world and then I'll sit down with a comedian or actor or writer or honestly anyone who responds to my DMs This is not the place to get the news but it is a place to feel a little bit better about it You can watch on YouTube or listen wherever you get your podcasts That Sounds Like a Lot part of the Vox Media Podcast Network What is your personal version of winning? How do you identify with winning and success? Being with my friends and family around, it gives me so much pleasure. Like, that's really being with women I love and my friends. It's just like, it's just like gives me so much satisfaction. And in my professional life is, you know, I sketch or I have visions of this, of these garments or pieces. And then not all the time they come exactly like how I envision them. Actually, it's not most of the time. They take their journeys and then in their journeys, they're like better or worse. but when they are exactly like the exact manifestation of what you had in your brain but like the exact to the button to the button like something that was just like something in your brain in your mind and all of a sudden is there in the tangential and that is the addictive what about what about selling seeing people wear it and yeah of course like my self-esteem is a attached to sell-throughs. But you asked me, like, what it is. For selling, I need to live. Like, selling is my self-esteem is attached to those sell-throughs. Right. But what I would consider success is that, like, really that moment. And also when we do a fashion show, a lot of it, for me, is a spiritual experience, the shows that we do. We have small shows, and I know that you can change collective consciousness when they are together and when you are able to have that all that that that little eight minutes of time that you've worked for half a year to create that it's like a mandala that disappear but if in that moment we're like blessed with all the elements at the same time and there's a we provoke a feeling that's um that's success provoking a feeling in others by something that they visually saw so in the 80s you spent the early days on a ranch yeah like cleaning shit yeah walking on shit herding cattle cow manure i think it's a better word um i think shit is just more yeah real and it's a great fertilizer it's amazing It's amazing. Respect for cow manure. So I am herding cattle from point A to B. This is so foreign to me, by the way. Like the thought of you. I mean, I met you after you've lived in New York. This is where I want to take you to your wife. This is where I want you to see. I want to go. Thank you. I've been invited. Yeah. But at 17, you tell your parents, you convince your parents that you are ready to move on. that this ranch life is just, I need to see the world. A little earlier, at 15, I told them I'm not doing this in the summers. I want to go to the beach with my friends. I rebelled. And my dad, he was, they hated cities, my parents. Like, they really did not. So my dad rented a little farm near the beach resort. So he brought some sheeps and some horses. This is all for me. But so he could drink his mate and look at the animals while I was in the beach. It was really, but. How did you convince them? I've had a real, when I'm decided about something, it's. They know not to mess with your mindset. Yes, yes. I think at that age, I think that's what's so impressive is, like, where did you find the guts to make that decision? Because it's one thing to think about the world and to be, you know, curious about what is out there. but to actually say I'm on my way is another ballgame. And it's when I understood if you put something in your mind and you really, really want it, that was the first experience of people telling me I can't do something, which we hear a lot, right? And me feeling I really want to go do this and put all the work, do it. and take a chance take a chance when you think of and see young designers struggle to be confident with their decisions and not really know the next path forward what advice would you give them? I think that the same advice I would give to anyone in the creative path which is the advice I was given to you need to stick with it The creative path is a long path most of the time. It's very rare that people meet success fast. It's a long, long, long, long one. But if you stick to it, you stick to your calling, no matter what the storms are and you stick to it, you're going to make it. But when you make it, don't believe the hype. Because the moment you believe the hype is over. You said that, I remember you said that in an acceptance speech once, and now when people ask me for advice, It's one of the things I say is like, don't believe in the hype. Yeah, it's over. The moment you believe it's the hype is over. And also the moment they say it, the next moment is when they want to see you come down. It's hard to escape all the noise and all the opinions. And you do, you know, you do want someone to think well of your craft and of your performance. Like, you know, you get up the court and you're like, I mean, I poured my heart out into this. You know, I spent years of training, like, you know, give me a little bit of something, you know, show me. And when they do, you're like, whoa, I've really got it. I think the difference is also I have a product, right? Like I make something and you are closer to a performer, to a lead singer, to a rock star or to a performing arts in a way. And because it's you, you are it. So there's nothing shilling you. And so it's, yeah, it's extremely brave. It is extremely, extremely brave. And I think it's interesting that you started with a shield armor command. Are the clothes your shield in this example? You know, that's why I find it interesting because when I really thought about Garilla Hearst, I mean, I thought for about it two years. Nobody needs another fashion luxury brand. No one. So if I was going to do it, it had to be done better with more conscious, with engagement. I have to have a social engagement. I have to be connected to what's going on in the world. And, but when I wrote about who the woman was, right, I wrote about her. And it was a, it's a bit of a mini manifesto in the sense that it's a woman of action. And I wanted this to be her armor because as you have experiences, success is very hard to achieve what people perceive as success. But as a woman, there's even harder. So much harder. And you don't really, I didn't realize, because my mother used to be a rodeo competitor. So I grew up with a very competitive woman and she used to compete in rodeos at 18. So my first images was my mother being thrown by a horse at three age. And so she was doing what the men were doing. So I didn't realize the difference between men and women. Like I didn't really feel like I was in a war. Because she never made a big deal out of it. And she did what the men did and she didn't. But it's really when you meet success in quotes when you start to really see. before you even launched gabriella hurst you had a line called candela yeah which you began with a couple of partners and you all invested 700 yes which is funny because 700 is exactly the amount of money my dad had when he came to the united states so um learning about that was a unique coincidence but you made a million dollars the first year in the first year yeah how would you consider that a success? I consider that as like not having to go back and selling cattle with my dad because I was like my father was like okay this life in New York uh you know I think it's time to I tried everything I I really fell into into fashion and I didn't know what I wanted to do in my life you know it's my sister's a veterinarian she knew she wanted to be a vet since she's seven years old my daughter one of my daughters wants to be a lawyer since she's seven years old. She's going to be a lawyer. And it's going, I just didn't know. I was from the people that didn't know. I just knew it had to be something creative that I needed to also develop both sides of my brain. I think one of the most important decisions when you launch any brand is the name you're going to launch with. And when you first launched Gabriella Hearst, Yeah. Was there a certain level of responsibility that you felt with incorporating Hurst as a last name? It was going to be my dad's name. It was going to be Perizzuti. I actually have trademark Perizzuti all over the world. And I keep on the trademark. And it was Perizzuti. It was Italian last name, made in Italy. I was like very excited with the idea. It was going to be ready to wear our shoes at the beginning. And then Dame Glenda Bailey, who was the editor-in-chief of Harper's Bazaar at the time, sat me down and said, I love your last name, but nobody can pronounce it here. So she's like, I think it needs to be called Gabriella Hurst. And so then I was concerned because of the preconceptions people were going to have. And I had worked already over a decade and I had started from scratch. So I didn't want that to opaque. But I thought about it. And Glenda is a wise woman. And I thought the product has to speak by itself. At the beginning, they're going to try to put this or that or say this or that. But if the product speaks by itself, then we're off to the races. It doesn't matter what it's called. Yeah. It's all about the quality of the product. Was there a moment where you like sat down with your husband and discussed it? I think it caught him by surprise. Well, he lent me the money for the business, 6% interest. half a million dollars. So I was in a better position than the 700. I mean, actually, I didn't have to design the logo, the Candela logo. I don't think you were born for this, but the Candela logo was a Microsoft, I did it myself in, it was called Paint, and it was Gothic. So it was like, I did the logo myself. So this time I was able to hire the great Peter Miles that he refused to work with me for a couple of months till I convinced him. It's such a beautiful name. I love the name. And I love that there's like, unlike so many other, you know, prominent designers, there's usually like, there's a logo and there's, you know, it's easily identifiable by anyone, but your identity is based on the way you've woven a piece, the material that you've chosen, the touch of the piece, right? It's like the invisible things that the eye can't see. And because I, exactly, I know you can create a brand without having to write the name of the brand. And you're a sports person. You know that they have to pay you to wear a logo. So like, why are these people buying things? They're actually paying them. Like, I just don't understand the concept. It baffles me. I was like, wait, it's the other way around. That's true. I never thought about it. You know it like I grew up watching sports They all like it a blaze man And now they like paying to wear the logo It like wait you have to pay me That's true. So true. So I think you can create a brand without having to do that. And we've made it. And for me, it's very, I mean, I get, it happens to me sometimes that, and I get excited about this because they know the product, where I'm talking to someone or met someone and this is what we do. I'm a designer and da, da, da. And then they ask me for the name of what I do or who I work for and say, it's a gorilla hearst. And they go, you are a gorilla hearst? So it means that they know more the product than the person. So ultimately. That's the best. That's the best. That's what famous people want to be is like they want to be known for their craft, but they don't want their identity to be known. Exactly. It's like, I don't, yeah. That's what you realize. Like you want to be rich, but not famous. Golden, golden rule. That's a good one. That is a good one. Yes. More than any designer that I've met or come across, you are more focused on why, on why you're doing this, on why you're creating pieces. And at the core of what you do, why is that the most important thing? Because in everything that you design and in every show that you produce and in every interaction you have with models, there is like, it's deeper than a t-shirt. It's deeper than a pair of shoes. I have a strong commitment to humans, to humanity. I really love humans. I'm really, I believe in us. And I know that in many cases we are looking, where are we now? You know, in this wild west of who captures and pastors natural resources from who. But I really think we have something very special, and that's our neocortex. You know, our brain is the reptile brain, the oldest brain, the living system that is with all the mammal brains. And then we have the new brain, the neocortex that only us have. Why do we have that? What is that connection? So for me, it's always that search. And I can't justify in the world that we live today to do what I love because I can also be very happy just drawing, right? I was very lucky that at 12 years old, I would feel the satisfaction, like being on the mode. And I don't do it enough. And I need to put more habit on, like, sketching even more, like just sketching for sketching. And I'm very happy doing that. So if I'm going to do this, I have to be able to bring and help others along the way. And it gives me so much joy when it's full with purpose. I want to talk about challenges because one of the reasons I started this space and this medium is because I didn't feel like I was listening to enough of like honest conversations about challenges that helped shape our future. Challenges that we really had to go through and accept and power through and really feel. Yeah. From the outside, it's very easy to think that, you know, your career is on one path and, you know, it's creating beautiful pieces that people wear and feel good about. But I'm I'm sure without doubt that you have faced challenges. And is there a particular moment that you thought was very pivotal in how you got through it and what you did mentally with your team physically to get through it? Is there a part of the world that you launched in that didn't go as well as you thought and some of the things you had to shift? I think that challenges is what shape you, right? And success is not like a linear thing. It's like ups and downs and circular. And they're constant. You know, it's like, I mean, we face pandemics. We've done so many things and it's constant challenging. You could not do our, I had this realization one day when I was with my team. And we're like looking at a piece. And then I'm like, nobody does this job if they don't love problems. Like you have to love problems. You have to love problem solving. And it sometimes becomes overwhelming, right? But that's the whole brain training. And that's a whole game in the way that you can look at something from another perspective, right? If your brain is tired, like I have a rule, I don't take serious decisions. Like, for example, today, if I slept only four hours, right? Less than four hours, it's like there's no way. I'm glad we got you on a good day. I know. So, but I'm not taking decisions. It's just because I know that you have to be in your capacity to solve these problems. But deep down, I don't want to sound too cliche, but it's the real truth. is gratitude, right? You have all these challenges. And sometimes they look like massive mountains that are like, how am I going to climb this? I want to get here. And then there's all these obstacles and you're like looking at it and it's like, I can't. First foot forward. And the simple way of translating it all is like, just show up. Just show up. Show up. Just show up. Just show up. And face it. and face it and failure, you know, it's like the fear of failure. You just have to like, when we showed in Paris in the show that you went, it was my first show after leaving Chloe. And I had been showing in New York. So showing in Paris was a challenge, right? Because it's like you're competing with the major leagues. And here it's like, I have like in my design team, we're like eight crazy cats. and then you're facing these ateliers with hundreds, you know, of people, hundreds. And I'm like here with my, and it was like, but you face the music, you go, you do it, and we didn't fall on our faces. So it's, we go and we try it again. We go and try it again. Are you a good communicator when the shit hits the fan? Yes, yes, yes, I am. I actually, you know, it's like the red flag when shit gets really real, when it's like, when it's a serious situation of gravity, I think I'm at my best. Thank God those don't happen often. But when that's where my mind goes, I had a situation with one of my children, very scary situation. And my mind just goes very calm. And I just act. And then it's like you connect to this like collective consciousness or what it is that your mind goes into superpower mode. And it's just like a still calmness that takes over. And they don't want to experience that again. it's scary but afterwards you're like what the fuck but in the moment it's like i know that's where yeah we're actually my i don't i don't get scared i get really in the moment i get very like when it's really something life-threatening or really serious i get very very very zen mode to the fullest then i will collapse but in the moment oh that's an uplifting way to wrap this up you ask the questions i know i know like the answers we're gonna close this off with a few um well which i originally thought were like easy lightning round questions but one of our previous guests said they're like therapy questions I think so. I'm into this. What is something you've had to unlearn? Oh, shit. That's a really good one. Oh, God. I love it. It is therapy. It's some behavioral patterns. You have to unlearn. In your personal life? Yeah. Self-destructed patterns to unlearn. Not harming yourself. What is a routine that's helped shape your success? writing things down writing my wishes writing to-do lists writing it down how many notebooks do you go through a year of notes four notebooks for design one personal journal i journal since i'm 10 years old like yeah they're gonna be in a museum one day steph it's on my will steph If something happens to me, she has them all. She has the journals. She has the journals. What is a common misconception about you? People think I'm stern. I think you have the same. Oh, yeah. Because we're, like, tall, and I think people feel intimidated because of that. But I'm, like, first of all, like, a little bit like a pushover. Like, you're sweet to me. It's like, what do you want? The moon? The stars? What do you want? I bring it to you. It's like, you're nice to me. And you're like, I'm like, what do you want? It's like, I can get you whatever you want. Like, just I'll go get it for you. If you're an asshole, I get it, you know. No, my issue is I just have a resting bitch face. That's the problem. I may have sharp cheekbones. Maybe that's it. I mean, that's a better problem than a resting bitch face. I love these questions. What is your relationship to perfection? I love a Bjork quote that I read from her once. And she works really hard. She works really hard. She's like, she prepares, prepares, prepares, prepares, preparation, preparation, preparation, preparation, preparation. And the moment she's going to perform, she lets it loose. Right? And in that moment, like, you have to trust. You have to trust in your preparation. You have to trust that you did the work. You go like, eh. That gives me goosebumps. It's so relative to like walking into a stadium like moments before your coach kind of hands you your bag and, you know, your bag of water bottles. And then that walk alone before they open the door to the stadium is where you know that it's just you. It's just your opponent. It's just the crowd. It's the ball. It's not about anyone else. Yeah. I mean, OG entertainers, right? Gladiators. What makes you feel tough? When I succeed in defending others' interests. What makes you feel pretty? You know, I have to tell you, I kind of had a... I'm glad you asked this question because I kind of didn't have like a great day and I didn't sleep well. It's like the first, it backs and it's like a lot going on. And then I couldn't, I knew I had to wake up at four o'clock in the morning and, you know, you can't really sleep because, you know, you have to. So I slept, tough day yesterday and I slept not that much as I spoke. And then when I took a shower and then I dressed and I put this on because this is how I travel from the plane. I was like, hey, I look good. So yeah, this morning, I'm grateful. I hate you because this is like your sweatpants. Yeah, yeah. This is how you dress, like to go to the gym. I don't do sweatpants traveling. I was taught well. I'm so jealous. You have to dress well for the plane. Come on, people. Do an effort. Seriously. You see, there's so many things I learned during this interview. I'm going to make a— See, I spent so many years in California that I'm just— I'm kind of like loosey-goosey about it. I learned that. I learned that. We did it. We did it. Thank you, Gabby. It was so wonderful.