Why physical books are the ultimate "Brain Upgrade" for 2026 with Nick Hutchison - Episode 137

What I'm about to talk about is probably the single greatest breakthrough that I've experienced in the last decade of reading and implementing information. I do believe that most of us suffer from an intention deficit disorder. We just fly through books and we're not really sure why or how we even came to find them in the first place. What I recommend people do is they slow down a little bit. Have you noticed that the world that we live in has been doing most of the thinking for you that your beliefs perceptions reactions fears and doubts have been shaped by unsolicited outside noise. How easy it's been for you to slip into that default sleep walking mode and label it as life and reality. Yeah, that ends here. Welcome to the make sense with Dr. J.C. Podcast. This is your opportunity to start thinking for yourself, reclaim control and step back into that role as the shock caller and dominant force of your own reality. It's when you change the way that you look at things that the things that you look at begin to change. So let's wake up, let's rise up and let's make sense of why and how shift happens. Hmm. Makes sense. First of all, welcome to the make sense with Dr. J.C. Podcast, the amazing Nick Hutchinson. Very, very nice to have you there here. So cool that we get to see each other again. How are you doing today? J.C. I am so excited to chat with you. Any time that I get to spend with you is the highlight of my day as I was sharing with you before we officially started recording. And so I'm excited to jam. Absolutely. Yeah, it's fun in a busy, busy world. It's nice when you're, I mean, we always pretend that we're interested in everything, but it's nice when you're like actually looking forward to seeing someone. The way that this show works as you're coming to learn is making sense of things. I'm calling this episode making sense of reading in a distracted world. That's what's most fascinating to me about the stuff that we have in our backgrounds. You know, yours is bigger than mine, I guess. And just for the record, I read a book a week. So if you find out that this guy reads more than me, that's because it's what he does. Right. So don't, don't hold full time job. Don't hold that against me, but I will tell you that there's a little bit of a competitiveness inside of me. Then I'm like, well, maybe I need to read like 60 books a year now, you know, just to try to catch up. We were going to initiate something that we've never done on this podcast. So this is like a maiden voyage for us. And it's going to happen with subsequent guests, but it's only fitting that it starts with somebody that I consider a friend. And we call this opening segment now, what I like about you, which comes from the romantic song. That's what I like about you. What I want to say first off, and I wrote something because I don't want to screw it up. Before I dive into this first off, I want to say that I really enjoyed meeting you. My listeners know that I have a very interesting perspective and outlook on life. It's rare that I really enjoy somebody's conversation, but also energy and things like that. And I would say that all in all, I think you'll find out that Nick is a real human. He loves his family. He's curious. He's open. He's very, very coachable. Him and I were both at this limitless live event that was run by Jim Quick. Even though we were backstage and Nick took the stage and he was fantastic at it. You know, we were kind of like students there together. That was fun. And I'd say he's very well grounded. And I would say that Nick, you strike me as the kind of guy that people would like to call friend. How about that? If you're looking for that sort of thing. But what I really appreciate most about you in the book thinkers sense, and we're going to get into that. What I've learned about him is that it's not really about reading more books. He reads a lot of books and so do I. A lot of people can read a lot of books, just like a lot of people can consume a lot of social media. From what I'm getting from Nick is that it's more about becoming a different version of yourself through what you read. And that's going to shine through, I believe, in this conversation because that's what he's all about. And that's what I'm strikingly interested in here. Obviously, that deeply aligns with the work that I do and helping people with perception and transforming as a person. That's the way I look at books. And I think that we're going to get into a discussion in a second. I want to get into book thinkers first. Just about this idea that we live in a world where if you want to go viral in this world, you just have to create something that helps people distract themselves from reality. And books can do that. I saw a post that you put up the other day and you're jokingly saying that you're reviewing a fictional book. But what's great about that and romance books and all that is it takes you away from reality. Nick's passion will shine through and you'll see that it's more about evolving as a person as a result of it. So that was the first that's what I like about you. You know, I'm sure it'll get better and better, but you were the first. So I thought that was pretty great. So thank you very much. Yeah. You know, what's funny is I like those same things about you. How funny is that? Everybody's wondering if maybe I coerced you to do that. But I'm going to I'm just going to tell you that I didn't. So what I'd love to start off with is, you know, just tell me before I ask you more direct questions, tell me a little bit about book thinkers and the question I would have is what problem does it solve? I started book thinkers sort of by accident back in 2017 after I read a couple of good books that totally changed my life. And I fell in love with reading as you highlighted as a form of personal development. I read to solve specific problems, build specific skills, satisfy specific curiosities and live up to my potential. And that's not just with business books. It's with health, fitness, nutrition, philosophy, psychology, spirituality and everything in between. And so I started the business by sharing the books I was reading on social media, hoping that my friends and family might benefit from some of my favorite takeaways. And as my community of readers, people following my book recommendations got bigger and bigger. I had authors reaching out to me asking if I could help promote and market their books. And I had thought at the time that all you had to do is write a book, put it out there and that millions of people would buy it. You're an author. That's just what happens. You provide value. People receive the value and they pay you for it. But as my DMs kept getting more and more frequent, more and more volume of authors reaching out, I realized there must be a gap. Right. Authors must write books. They intend to solve a problem for somebody or build a skill or satisfy a curiosity, but it must be more difficult than I thought to get the book out there. So I started meeting with all of these authors and learning more about how they've condensed decades of their life experience into days, which is a pretty intense process. And they're making it available for such a nominal price, $20, $25. But it's still really difficult to get it out there. And so what Book Thinkers is today is an agency that helps authors promote and market their books to the right person, the person they are best positioned to serve. I have over 10 people on my team. We help hundreds of authors a year through things like video content creation on social media, social media management, podcast booking, and then book reviews through our channels on social media. We have a couple hundred thousand followers. We do a great job with our podcast. And so that's what Book Thinkers is. The through line is that the right book at the right time can change your life. I believe in the transformation that books can have. And so we're introducing books that do that inside of our community to the readers. And then we're helping authors behind the scenes get more exposure for their books as well. That's awesome. And just in case somebody ends up just hearing this as an audio file, because with a large group of people listen just to the podcast. I've never seen Nick not wearing something, whether it's a jacket or a hat that says books change lives. And that's very much conducive. Where did you come up with the name Book Thinkers? What does it mean? Well, back in 2017, when I was starting to think about turning this into a real business, I had read that you want to name your business something that's available as a dot com URL. And so I was on GoDaddy one night with a couple of my friends, my coworkers, actually. And we were just searching things booknerd.com and, you know, read more books dot com or books change lives dot com. Nothing was available. One of my coworkers, Kyle, actually, he said, aha, I found it. And I ran over to his computer and he had book thinkers.com up on GoDaddy. And he said, I'm going to buy it. And I ran back to my computer and bought it. Obviously, he was just playing around. He wasn't going to buy it, but the name stuck. And it means so many different things to me. And it's been seen by 100 million people at this point. But it's the idea that I read books that cause me to think and that change does have to take place inside of our brains before we can make it a reality. And so Book Thinkers, we read books on personal development, nonfiction business, health fitness, nutrition, like I mentioned before. And that's what it means. That's that's how I came up with the name. I give all the credit to my buddy, Kyle, although I ran back and actually bought the domain. Man, I think everybody knows that scenario where like somebody comes up with an idea and threatens to buy it like they never will. But that's that's, you know, what prompts us. So I was kind of hoping that's what it meant. You know, I never asked you that when we were hanging out because I love that. But, you know, it's like book distractors is probably what most people are thinking about. Now, first of all, what did you do before this? Because it's interesting. There's a lot of people out there at a crossroads trying to they have an idea. And I love that you kind of organically stepped into this idea. You kind of like we're like, oh, I thought that they I didn't think they needed help with that. I'm going to supply that demand. Just out of curiosity, shortly, what did you do before that? I love this question because I have a little bit of a different story. I graduated college with a business degree. And I went to work for a local software company that sold transfer made transportation management software. So not a very sexy industry, but it was a software company. It was a sales role. And I thought, I like to sell. Let me try my hand at that. And it was within that job that I was introduced to the world of personal development. I started by listening to podcasts where successful people would show up and talk about how they became successful. And at the time I viewed success mostly through the lens of money, financial success. And I would consume a lot of these shows because I was commuting an hour each way to work five days a week. So I had 10 hours a week in the car. I would listen to 10 plus podcasts a week. So many of these guests on the podcasts would talk about how books at some point influence their behavior. And I started to notice a lot of the same titles popping up over and over. One of the interesting things about this sales role that I had at the time was I started as an intern. And then by reading and implementing books on sales and marketing and negotiation and persuasion and effective communication, I started to succeed and break a lot of records. So I earned a regional sales role. The company moved me down to Florida in a company apartment, which was so cool. And I continued to break a lot of records. Then the company I was working for was purchased by a VC. They gave me even more opportunity. And eventually I was the director of sales at this company. All the while I was building book thinkers on the side as a side hustle. And I was given some advice pretty early on by a mentor of mine. He said, Nick, slow and steady wins the race. No matter how many times you read Aesop's fable, the tortoise and the hare, the tortoise always wins. And he told me something from Michael Gerber's book, The E-Myth Revisited, which was that 95% of small businesses fail not because the entrepreneurs burn out in terms of passion, but they burn out in terms of money. And so many people make that jump, I think, a little bit too prematurely. And so my story is that I built book thinkers as a side hustle. And I actually kept my full time job at that software company while I hired my first few employees. So I had full time employees in the business while I still had a nine to five, not super sexy, not this stoic entrepreneur fighting against all odds, you know, constantly on the edge or brink of destruction, no money in the bank account, how am I going to make payroll? I played it a little bit safer than that. And I built up book thinkers. And as I would earn money instead of taking it out of the business, I would find people that I could delegate so much of what I was doing manually so that I could think about higher leveraged problems. And that gave me the space and the creativity to build it the right way. And I think for a lot of different reasons, that's why it still exists today. You know, you see so many businesses pop up and then go out of business and I didn't want to be one of those. That was also a major influence from so many of the books behind me. I've read so many iconic entrepreneurship biographies. And while a lot of them will tell you, take the risk and make the jump, they didn't always do it that way. They're all mitigating risk. And so, yeah, that's a little bit of my counterintuitive story. I worked in B2B software sales. I read and implemented sales books and I built my business slowly on the side. I love that. And, you know, it's interesting when you're in a position like myself, I've interviewed so many people, not just on the podcast, just working as a coach and a mentor as well. I love hearing those stories about when somebody is like telling you their ground level story before they have like a breakthrough like this. And there's an interesting observation for another conversation where you start to realize that whenever somebody tells you they have a side hustle, that means a lot. That means that they're not satisfied with what they're doing, either financially or whatever. But you start to notice that people's side hustle, there's a little message for everybody listening, is typically more closely related to your quan, you know, your mission, your calling, your purpose. So nice to hear that again. So I remember you telling me a story and I know you've told the story many times about this moment because he's read like all these books and you hear his back story. But there was one specific book that you read that kind of led you down this path to writing your own book and doing what you do at the level that you do now. Could you just explain a little bit about that? Because we share something in common with that book. I don't know if you remember that, but share what happened in that moment. The three that came up in my head are Rich Dad Poor Dad by Kiyosaki. You could stop right there. And that's one. Because, well, I remember, I mean, it's such a powerful book. And there's some mystery behind that book as well, as you know. But what's really cool about that book is I actually was mentored by the actual person that Rich Dad was referring to. I don't know if you know who that was. Do you know who Rich Dad is in real life? I don't remember. I mean, I don't. He doesn't talk about it. I actually wrote the book. I know a little bit of that story. So who's Rich Dad in real life? He's a guy that you need to know about. Check him out. Look up his YouTube videos. His name is Marshall Thurber. And I didn't know about that book until I became mentored by this guy for another reason. And then somebody said, by the way, that's who Rich Dad is in that book. So when I heard you say that. So this is where a lot of your stuff comes from. You read something and it changes you. Right. That's kind of the theme here. So what was it about that book or even the other ones you were thinking of that changed you? When I picked up Rich Dad, Poor Dad by Robert Kiyosaki and Sharon Lecter for the first time, I was like a kid on Christmas morning. I mean, I could not get enough of that book. Every single page had a major breakthrough. I mean, it rearranged the molecules inside of my brain because while I did grow up in a great situation, I have the world's greatest parents, upper middle class family. We never really wanted for anything. We always had enough and they unconditionally loved me. We did not talk about the subject of money. So when I read Rich Dad, Poor Dad, I was an intern at that software company. I was going into my final year of college as a business student. And I was really insecure around personal finances. I mean, I would sit in these business classes and all these kids who were financially literate would be talking circles around their investment portfolios and all this other stuff that I just didn't understand. And so I was the kind of kid who was a poor student driven by insecurity. So I wouldn't raise my hand and volunteer and do too much in class. Well, I read Rich Dad, Poor Dad. And right in the beginning of the book, he says that poor and middle class people are poor because they have poor or middle class money habits. The subject of money is typically not taught in the school environment. So not everybody's on an even or level playing field. It's the rich kids learning rich money habits from their rich parents at home that give them such a positive disadvantage and why that wealth gap continues to grow. And so if you want to solve that problem, if you want to break the cycle, you have to learn from rich people. Robert Kiyosaki is a rich person. And so every single chapter is breaking my brain. And I can't wait to tell people about it. Now, I read a couple of other personal finance books that summer and I go back to school my senior year and I am leading those discussions about money. I'm the most confident and financially literate person in any of my business classes because I read a couple of good books. And I saw that if you could solve one major insecurity throughout the course of a summer by reading and implementing a couple of books, what other problems can I solve? Can I solve relationship problems? Can I solve health fitness and nutrition problems? Can I solve business problems by reading and implementing books? And so that book, Rich Dad Poor Dad by Robert Kiyosaki, I mean, it started this entire trajectory that I have. And when you talk about implementing books, I met Sharon Lecter one time who wrote the book originally with Robert. And I thanked her for writing it. I told her, Sharon, I've used that book to build a business. I use that book to invest in multifamily investment properties with my friends. I've used that book to completely change the way that I think about money. Thank you for writing it. And she said, don't thank me. Pat yourself on the back because we've sold 30, 35 million copies of that book. And such a small fraction of 1% of people actually took that much action on it. So thank yourself. And I was like, oh, goodness, why aren't people taking more action on books? Isn't that why they're reading them? Like that was another thing that I didn't understand. Why else would you be reading these books if you're not going to take action on them? But yeah, Rich Dad Poor Dad, I mean, I think it's the first book that most people should start with. And I'll kind of end my monologue here by saying that I think it's had such a big impact for a couple of major reasons. One is that it's right around 200 pages. I think if it was longer, people would be less likely to read it. I think if it was shorter, people would be less likely to buy it. I think that the language is so common. I mean, anybody can read that book. A high schooler can read that book. Or somebody on the final leg of their professional career can read that book and find value in it. And it's counterculture. It's a subject that's mostly taboo, which is money. And it basically says the entire traditional education system, in traditional corporate system, is actually working against you. And so you're like, oh, wow, I want to be a little bit of a rebel. Let me jump to this other side, which is all about financial literacy and investment and entrepreneurship. And you kind of feel cool for doing that too. So Rich Dad Poor Dad by Robert Kiyosaki. Just what a beautiful book. There's so many lessons in everything that you're saying. For the record, if that ends up being somebody's go-to book right now, like Nick, you probably have some sort of a solid foundation and confidence under you. My first book was completely different than that. And it was at a time where I was hanging off the edge of a cliff in life. And somebody gifted me a book that I've bought hundreds of books, this book for people. And it was just this teeny little book because I didn't like reading at the time. And it was Who Moved My Cheese? And that was it. Once I, book thinker-wise, once I felt the shift in my mind, and this is, you know, I'm about to publish my own book, and I probably should go back and credit that book for it. Because that was the first time, like you, that I changed the way I looked at life. Everything changed. So powerful. I share that with you. So here's an interesting question. So I want to get into a little bit of an observation of society right now. Because, you know, if you go visit Nick and book thinkers, and you'll love his Instagram, it's just fantastic. He puts out great content. And by the way, if anybody's looking for, like, your next book or 12 to read, Nick is constantly telling people about great books. And you'll see that what book thinkers really is, and you've heard his story, it's really just an act of paying forward what he loves. You know, I mean, that's probably why you're very successful and why you enjoy your job so much is that you're just sharing things with people that you are in love with. Like, I don't think Nick is going to ever like take, like, a high payout to, like, advertise a book that he doesn't like. He says, he doesn't need to do that, and he's not that kind of guy. But we live in a different world today. So my question now is, just in your observation of what's going on out there, do you feel that people are actually reading books now? Or do you feel that people are consuming books similar to consuming social media in a form of distraction? What is your observation? Well, my observation is that most people are consuming books like they consume social media as a form of entertainment, not as a form of education. And I have a bone to pick with that. And I'm trying to change that narrative. There are a smaller set of people who understand that it's only by taking action on what you've read and by fully understanding the content that change will take place. Napoleon Hill said, action is the real measure of intelligence. And so I would argue that if Nick reads The Compound Effect by Darren Hardy but fails to take any action, and JC watches Netflix, well, both of us are the same because we're addicted to entertainment. There's no difference between us just because I read a book and you didn't, unless I take action on what I've read. Now, that's where the real magic happens. And so my shirt today says, read less and apply more. I mean, I would love to say read more and take more action, but I think that's a couple of steps too far for most people. We need to put down our devices and we need to focus on reading or listening, but I prefer reading, to long form content, fully understanding the case that an author is making inside of a book and then take action on what you've read. I have a funny metaphor that highlights this really well. Imagine JC that your goal was to make the world's best chicken parm. And so you buy a couple of cookbooks. You even read those cookbooks. They're dog-eared and coffee stains and you're writing notes in the margin. Maybe you even took the action of buying the ingredients, but you never made the chicken parm. That would sound kind of funny, right? But that's what so many people do. They buy a book on entrepreneurship. Maybe they even register their business with the state they live in, but they never take any additional action. Or they buy a book on dating and they visualize themselves asking the girl out at the bar, asking the guy out at the bar, but they never actually do it in real life. That would seem kind of funny, wouldn't it? Or maybe you buy a book on dieting and your goal is to download a fitness app that tracks your macros or whatever, but you never log anything in it. Like we have this world where we think that reading and maybe buying something because of the book told you to is progress and it's not. It's just the first step. If you don't take action, if you don't make the chicken parm, start the business, ask the girl out on the date or start tracking your macros, nothing is going to change. And so yeah, we consume books like we consume social media. They're just forms of entertainment and total distraction. And I'm trying to raise awareness of that so that people go, maybe if I actually did take a little bit of action and try the chicken parm recipe, I went forward and made it, then I'd know what it would taste like. That'd be a better situation. I think I just heard him say, hmm, God, I heard you say change a few times. Yeah, that's right. Change. I'd rather my daughter be getting dopamine hits from reading than from like Fortnite, to be honest with you. But the only reason that we get frustrated about that is because of the dramatic change and transformation that we've received that we want to pay forward. But we live in a world that could give a, you know, what about that? But one of my favorite quotes is this, it says, remember that learning and knowing is nothing more than a distraction in the absence of action. This concept that you use the word illusion, this concept goes really, really deep, especially you and I are very much involved on a speaking level and we go as students to conventions and seminars and God, there's a webinar all the time. And some of the biggest names are selling, masterfully selling massive packages. Like there's somebody out there recently that sold a million $1,000 packages just from a free seminar. And they know and we know that the amount of people that are going to take action is minimal. So there's an actual marketplace for people that don't follow through. And I have a bone to pick with that, but it's not my bone to pick. So this kind of brings me a little bit more into the work that you've done with your book. It was called Rise of the Reader. I love that name, Rise of the Reader. Because the word rise is really the challenge. We'd like to think that if somebody gets a good book like Rich Dad, Poor Dad, or Who Moved My Cheese, that they're going to rise from it. Just because we did doesn't mean that they will. But what I love about the name of your book is it reminds people that it's the rise that people struggle with. Because if you're just consuming for the sake of knowing and learning and creating this illusion that you're moving forward in life because you're no more stuff, I talked to our buddy Jim Quick about this all the time. It's frustrating if you're somebody that has taken action and felt the blessing of following through. Let's talk a little bit about Rise of the Reader. I heard you say something in the sense of how you recommend or you do yourself that you set intentions before you read. That's the first time I've ever heard of that. Because for me reading is to, I just got the chills when I said that. Because that's how cool I think it is. And I think that people that are listening right now are saying I've never heard of that before. Because I read every day and it's just brainless. It's for me, it's like eating pizza. I love it. And I write about it after. That's how I retain, right? And then I take it and I teach it to somebody. That's how I retain it. Talk a little bit about that. What do you mean when you say set intentions before you read? Is it like saying grace before dinner? What is that about? Kind of. Yeah, it is kind of like saying grace before dinner, which is something I recommend for people to do. What I'm about to talk about is probably the single greatest breakthrough that I've experienced in the last decade of reading and implementing information. I do believe that most of us suffer from an intention deficit disorder. We just fly through books and we're not really sure why or how we even came to find them in the first place. What I recommend people do is they slow down a little bit. And they do a personal inventory before they decide to read a book. What problems am I facing, either personally or professionally, that somebody else has probably solved? And then go out there and find a book to solve it? Or what skill would I like to acquire in 2026 so that when I walk into 2027, I'm an even better version of myself? Or what area of the world do I know nothing about, but I could solve that problem by reading and implementing a great book? So do a little bit of a personal inventory first. And I have some other questions inside of my book, Rise of the Reader, that people can go through to think about what book should I be reading? Then go out there and find a book that promises to solve that problem, build that skill, satisfy that curiosity. When you get the book, don't just dive right in, set an intention. My favorite way to do this is by setting a smart goal for the book. So let's talk about Jim Quicks book limitless, since we're both friends with him and we can use that as a common example. So many people have bought that book, a couple million from what I've heard. And then they just get the book and they open it right up. Instead, what I recommend doing is remind yourself of the problem that you're looking to solve or the skill you're looking to build, and then set a smart goal. Smart is a very common goal setting acronym. I won't go super into detail, but it stands for specific, measurable, attainable, relevant or written, and time bound. And so when I build my goals for each book, I like to follow that formula. It works really well for me. So if I'm going to read limitless by Jim Quick, I might set a goal like find and implement at least one strategy that I can use to improve my learning by the end of March. That goal is specific. I know what I'm looking for inside of the book. That goal is measurable. At the end of March, did I implement at least one way, one strategy to improve my learning? Is it attainable? Yes, I'm just looking for one thing. So many people set very unrealistic goals for the books they read, and then therefore they procrastinate and they don't take action. I like to make it really easy. It's great if you over deliver. Is it relevant to my life? Heck yeah, it is. I want to get emotionally connected to the outcome of reading and implementing this book. I want to make sure that it's solving a problem that I'm actually facing or building a skill that I actually desire to acquire. And time bound by the end of March. We all remember being in grade school and we're given a project that's due two weeks from now on Monday morning, and we do it two weeks from now on Sunday night, and we get it done right in the nick of time. That's called Parkinson's Law. A task will expand to the amount of time that we give it. So if you don't set a deadline to take action on the books you read, you probably will never take action. But if you say by the end of January, February, March, you will take action. It'll be at the last second, but it will still get done, and that's what's important. So I'll actually write that intention, that smart goal, on the inside cover of the book that I'm reading. And I'll reread that intention every time I pick up the book. Because our brains have this beautiful function called a reticular activating system. It's like your brain's filtering process. And so a book has a lot of potential opportunities to change your life. But if you get really intentional about which one you'd like to aim for, your brain will assist you. The book will help you. And so you'll be reading through Limitless by Jim Quick. You'll see some fascinating stuff on brain food. Well, that's not related to your goal. So although you could have taken action on it, instead, you'll filter it out, and you'll just look for that one strategy. I'll pause there because I've already shared a lot. I have a couple of other things to say about this process of setting intentions for books, like as we follow through in the reading process. But what do you think about that, JC? Does that make sense? I mean, I've heard it before, but it just landed well with me. Intention deficit disorder. I'm going to be honest with you. This is my realm, and I've never thought of this before I read a book. And I might comfortably say that I didn't think that I needed to, because I'm just one of these people that does retain, and I kind of instinctively pull from it. But why the hell not? Why wouldn't I do that? You know, I'm going to... It takes two minutes. It takes two minutes. Yeah, I've never thought of writing something like that on the inside of a book. And what's interesting as I get ready to publish my book is it's giving me some ideas of what I will write to people. And I'll have to credit Nick Hutchinson for every book that I sign, I guess, as we go through that. Let us well write that whole thing. And by the way, this is correct. Yeah, exactly. You know, it's funny. We're talking about our buddy Jim Quick. My best friend for 25 years and just love him to pieces, but he's such a genius. When I unveil my cover of my book, you'll see that there's a Jim Quick quote on the cover. His quote goes like this, I wish I had thought of this first. And I said, please, can I just... Can I write that? Yeah, that was a compliment. So that being said, so my book, and this is why I'm fascinated with what you're doing. My book's called Makes Sense, just like my podcast. Rewire Your Mind and Transform Your Life. And what's interesting about it in this context is, I don't think that people are stuck because they're lacking things like motivation and intelligence. I actually think all people are highly capable. You know, this is an observation I have of everybody I meet. I always say, you're capable, you're just scattered. I believe people require clarity before action. You know, that's my big thing and what I talk about in the book. You know, Wayne Dyer said it best. He said, when we change the way we look at things, the things that we look at change. So I'd love to know what your thoughts are on that. In the context of somebody that reads a lot and promotes this book thinkers concept, what are your thoughts on that idea of inserting books as a potential tool in a vehicle to accomplish this? Because that's a big part of what I write about is where I learned it. But what are your thoughts on that idea of who you are being the defining factor of how well what you do works? I think we live in a world where everybody says, I want, I want, I want, I need, I need, I must have, I must have. And they do, but they just don't see the return on investment. So I say it's a little bit more about the who than the do. We're talking about the difference between, you know, getting a dopamine hit from a book and consuming it the right way and turning it into muscle, right? That's an interesting look at books as protein. But what are your thoughts on that? Nick, by the way, if you're listening on the podcast, Nick is extremely handsome and jacked if you didn't want to. So you'll have to go watch the video on YouTube. But tell me a little bit about what your thoughts are. I guess we would say if we looked at books as nutrition for the mind and the body. I love what you said a moment ago because people are very scattered and books are very scattered. And so you're right. You need clarity before you take action. And I think what I just talked about helps to provide clarity and therefore increase the likelihood that you take action. When you read Limitless by Jim Quick or you read Make Sense, there are a lot of opportunities to take action. And therefore you get overwhelmed because you're scattered. But if you know exactly what you're looking for and you find a strategy that solves a specific problem that you've been rereading inside of your front cover for a month as you read the book, you'll find clarity. Another way that one of my mentors says it, he says, diluted focus gets diluted results. If you're trying to play 10 games at once, you can only give 10% of your attention to each game or less. So it's hard to win at that. Inside of a book, you're giving your attention to 10 different potential actions rather than one. And so diluted focus gets diluted results. You need to seek clarity in the books that you choose to read and how you choose to read them and which actions you choose to implement. Sometimes when I read a book, JC, let's say I read limitless again, just we're using this as the example, and I find 10 potential strategies that I could implement to increase my learning. Well, I'm not going to implement 10 because that's diluted focus. Maybe I'll choose one or two, the one or two that have the highest likelihood of creating the change I'm looking to make and implement. So books as nutrition, yeah, they're very nutritious. It's just we need to be selective about what we choose to eat. Otherwise, we will over consume and feel bloated using that metaphor. You need too much. We all know it's not good for you. I feel like we need Gabrielle Lyons on the show right now to just like ask her. I was talking with her this morning, actually. How funny is that? That's so funny. She's the maestra of muscle. Okay, so you and I were, we got into a fascinating conversation that was exciting but also unsettling. And I wanted to use our last 10 minutes on this because it kind of projects the current reality and potentially into the future. Whenever I meet somebody that's so involved in, when I talk to Jim, he's the master of the brain. And I always want to know where do you see that going in the future, right? Because of where we're moving. So you and I got into a little bit of a conversation about AI. So I've got a couple of questions I want to pick your brain. So this is, I guess we'll call this the deep end of the pool. My question to you is this, as we move into this realm, there's an interesting paradox going on right now. And I understand why it's going on, but there's an interesting paradox going on right now where you have people that like get so upset when they read something, they either pick it out and they go, oh, that's AI, which I mean, who knows what's AI now? If somebody just takes a couple of steps, you can hide the AI. What I want to know is, if somebody reads a book, and they don't know who wrote it, they don't know the author, they don't know if it's AI or human, but they read the book and it moves them. But then they find out after that it was written by AI. Does that matter? Is that a bad thing when something is created or generated by AI that has the same impact as rich dad, poor dad had for you, but it was artificially generated? No, and maybe you don't have a bone to pick with me. I don't think it matters. I think that from an author's perspective, it's going to be a lot harder to promote and market your book. If you know that you wrote it with AI, and you're just slapping your name on something that ChatGPT generated, I think that that's more of the question. Is that moral and ethically correct to do, to claim that you wrote something that you didn't write? As far as the reader goes, they're less likely to buy it if they knew beforehand that it was written by AI, but at the end of the day, if the change takes place, if the reader is better off because they read and took action on what ChatGPT wrote, even though it had your name on it, then objectively speaking, it didn't matter. I just think from a promotion and marketing standpoint, it's harder to market a book written by AI than it is a book written by a human being. I don't know if that answered your question directly. Well, I mean, you're speaking, Nick is a very, very trustworthy, ethical, moral person, but what I'm saying is, is in that space where nobody knows. So just let me give you a hypothetical. Let's say I publish a book. J.C. Dornick publishes a book, and I wrote it, but nobody knows the truth is that I either had it done 100% by some sort of amazing AI, so morally not cool. So I get that. But what I'm talking about is just experientially, does it matter? And as we look into the future, and we know that, you know, my buddy Rizwan Verk, who's wrote the simulation hypothesis, I don't know if you ever wrote it. Yeah, I know Riz. Yeah, he's been on my channel. Oh, that's right. We spoke about that. So Riz and I are like, I love that dude. You know, he talks about the simulation point where it will be indistinguishable. So we're very close to this place where we will not know the difference. So as we look into the future, does it matter? Let's say we jump in like two years from now and book thinkers has 6 million followers and everything, which I'm sure it will have. And you're crediting a book, right? You're saying like you always do. You say, you know, Kiyosaki, Rich Dad, Poor Dad. So in the future, are we going to be crediting books the same way that we credit movies, where there's different people on the team? Like we could be like prompts by Dr. JC Dornig, chat GPT on the writing skills and stuff like that. And is that okay? Because from my perspective, and what I've heard you kind of like looking into and stuff like that, it seems like that's inevitable. What are your thoughts on that? Yeah, I think it will continue to get more diversified. I think you're right. And is it okay? Yes, it's okay. Because at the end of the day, we're looking for a solution to a problem or a more efficient way to acquire a skill or accurate information about a specific subject in this world of nonfiction business and personal development, at least. And that's okay. The fictional book that I was talking about on Instagram the other day, Project Hail Mary, my wife listened to it three times through. She absolutely loved it. And she's like, I can't wait for the author to write the next book. So I was inside a chat GPT. And I just said, can you write chapter one of Project Hail Mary book two? That's all I said. And it did. And it was perfect. And it freaked out my wife. And she was a little like, that sounds too good. But I know the author didn't write it. I don't want to hear that. But it was so good. And it was entertaining. And it was accurate. That's all I asked it to do. So to answer your question, I mean, is it okay? Yeah, I think it's okay. It is the way that the world is going. And if at the end of the day, a large language model can solve every one of my problems, build all of my skills, satisfy my curiosities, and I can find a way to get emotionally connected to it, like I do with a lot of the authors that I pay attention to, then so be it. I'm open. I'm curious. Yeah, that's what I love about you. What's interesting about a fiction book, by the way, is the only reason it's fiction is because it's not the same as how we see the world. You know, right? So that unveils a whole other. I have to talk to Riz about that conversation. But what's interesting about that is that all of this stuff that we're talking about and this idea of human beings writing books and all that, that's all based on us thinking that we're some sort of baseline reality, you know? But if you talk to Riz Wanverk, he'll be like, well, what if we're AI and we're so advanced, we don't even know it and we're creating AI. In his case, he would say it's probable. It's highly probable. And Donald Hoffman as well. So I want to reel it back to humanville here for a second, because Nick and I, as far as we know, we're humans. With everything that we're talking about, you know, we've got algorithms and, you know, we're constantly being persuaded to perceive the world and react. And I mean, I don't even think that humans, for the most part, are thinking for themselves. And that's one of the things I love about reading is it's like, it's something that I do for me. Why are books still important? And the reason why I ask you that is because another hypothetical with the advantage of things like audio books, and that's becoming very popular, there's also this idea, like when I sit down and read a book, some kids will be like, have fun grandpa. I feel like books are, they've been such an important part of our history, whether you talk about the Torah or the New Testament. I mean, those are some of the most influential books of all time, or the Quran, depending on where you are in the world, the Bhagavad Gita, like these foundational books that our societies are built on. One of the reasons why I feel like they're important today is because reading a physical paper book is an act of monotasking. It's focusing on one task at the expense of everything else. And I love being with that paper. I love lengthening my attention span. And I love watching an author build an argument throughout the course of a couple hundred pages. Now, that background context that an author does in the first half of a book before they really start hammering in their point oftentimes is so incredibly important. Those case studies, those influences, those facts, that historical information is so important in building our understanding of the aha that we're going to make. It's why I love podcasts. If somebody watches a little clip from this on Instagram and they see me say something slightly controversial, great. It's probably not going to change their behavior though. But this one hour conversation might because we built from my background and how I started to become passionate about this stuff. And then why I take the time to write a smart goal for each book and then the future books. It's like all of that matters. And you get all that inside of a long form book. You don't get it inside of a book summary. I think book summaries are mostly a waste of time. They're great at helping you decide whether or not to read the book, but they don't replace it. They don't replace it because the entire book matters. And it will help you take more action and change your life. That's why I think books still matter. And by the way, in 2024, Barnes & Noble opened 60 new physical locations and they have plans in 2026 to open another 60. And so physical paper books are back, baby. It's almost like bell bottoms. It's like retro. When I read a book, there's kind of an ASMR thing going on as well. Like I actually smell books. But at the end of the day, what I want to say on that before we close out is that it's always going to be left in the hands of the person that you're talking to. There's a good chance that kids today will be like, I don't want a book. Can't talk somebody into it. And we have to kind of like go with the flow. But I agree with you. I actually have my prediction is that books will become even of more value. Almost like an NFT one day. Because I look at my collection and I don't mess with my books. If we move, they will be the heaviest boxes we have to move. As you guys know, you book collectors, but I will gladly throw my back out for those boxes. So this is a crazy question. And it's probably an unbelievably hard one for you to answer. But our last question is this, if somebody's listening today, and they're not like really a book reader or they haven't gotten into it yet, and they were just going to read one book, what book would Nick Hutchinson recommend? And by the way, what we'll do is we'll take this snippet and we'll sell it to the guy before we publish it. No, I'm just kidding. Well, maybe he'll accept. I would, what I like to do, and I'm not trying to cop out of this, what I like to do is provide custom book recommendations to people. And so if anybody listening has a specific problem that they want me to solve for them, or a specific area of curiosity, like DM me at book thinkers on Instagram. Tell me about the problem you're looking to solve, the skill you're looking to build, an area of life you want to learn more about. And I'll provide a customer recommendation. For most people, I think I go back to first principles thinking. What are the skills or the frameworks or the philosophies that will make everybody more successful, moving into this like ever changing and chaotic and unpredictable world? One of those is delayed gratification and understanding how the compound effect works. That slow steady steps in the right direction compounded over a long period of time will lead to disproportionately positive outcomes on social media, in health, in fitness, in your bank account, in writing, whatever it is. And so the compound effect by Darren Hardy is a book that every human being on the planet could benefit from. Well done. Yeah, regardless of where they're at in life. Yeah. And you know what? There's so many books like that, but that's such a great choice. That was not on my radar, but like anybody could benefit from that. And if anybody listens to this whole episode and watches the video, I promise you that most of everything that you heard Nick say or me, we got from books. All of it. Yeah, none of what I said today has to do with Nick Hutchison's intelligence, as for sure. It just came through Nick GPT and it was processed. And I love, love the idea of presenting the uniqueness of your current reality and your problem and saying what book would be a great start in solving that. And that just kind of shows the character of where you're at. And he just offered that. And I would recommend that you take advantage of that soon because a year from now, we're probably going to be booking Nick on this podcast through like some sort of a body guard or something like that. So take advantage of that. Five million dollars. That's right. Well, hey, listen, man, you deserve it. I love everything that you're doing. I love who you're hoeing. You're a great person. I look forward to a great friendship with you in the future. You have a friend named Dragon and you've just been in the Dragon's lair and you did great and everybody's going to love you for that. And I would say Nick and book thinkers both makes perfect sense. That's what I would say. Thank you very much. My pleasure. And next time we chat, it'll probably be on my podcast. So I'm excited to see you. That would be fun. That would be fun. My name is Nick Hutchison of Book Thinkers and this podcast makes sense. That's it for today. To support the make sense with Dr. J.C. podcast, be sure to subscribe, like and share, as well as follow the make sense substack for free daily quotes, live streams and blogs. And remember learning without action is just another form of distraction. If something hit home and you learn something today, give it away. That's the only way it's going to stay. See you next time. Hmm. Makes sense.