Paramore — “Misery Business”

So what we got here is one of those rad action movie scenes where the dastardly villain reveals his coolest and deadliest weapon. This is my moon laser. This is my red double-bladed lightsaber. This is my dolphin that I unwittingly train to kill the president of the United States. That sort of thing. So here we got a military grade nuclear bomb type suitcase with a dastardly villain's name stenciled on it and the movie score swells ominously. And the dastardly villains two henchmen open the suitcase and a super ominous keyboard goes boom boom boom. And you even get an any ol moroconies spaghetti western riff. We we we and there it is. The coolest and deadliest weapon the world has ever known. Look on my works ye mighty and despair. I'll tell you what that is. Jenny Lewis and Fred Savage. It's the fucking power glove. Power glove. Dig the sexy film noir saxophone that kicks in as the dastardly villain flexes his power glove. It is 1989 and I'm watching a real movie called The Wizard in the theater because there ain't nothing else to do in 1989. The titular wizard is a troubled nine year old video game prodigy who busts out of a mental institution with the help of his teen aged half brother played by Fred Savage. And at a bus stop they made a spunky young lady slash love interest played by Jenny Lewis and boob boob boob boob boob. Eventually the wizard wins $50,000 in a video game tournament at Universal Studios Hollywood whatever man noted movie critic Roger Ebert gave the wizard one star and described it as quote a nasty pile up down at the screenplay factory. End quote also Roger Ebert angrily points out that during the climactic video game tournament the announcer says that the players have reached the third level of the teenage mutant Ninja Turtles NES game but Roger observes in his review that they're clearly still playing the first level of the teenage mutant Ninja Turtles NES game Roger Ebert knows ball. All right get that weak shit out of here whatever man this movie's legacy is power glove kid the rudest meanest toughest most punchable movie villain of 1989 in a remarkably crowded field Jack Nicholson playing the Joker in Tim Burton's Batman in 1989 yeah Jack Nicholson's Joker had some wonderful toys but he ain't got no power glove and now we watch as power glove kid menacingly blows through the first level of the game rad racer for NES and Jenny Lewis is entranced and Fred Savage is tremendously concerned that Jenny Lewis is entranced dig the lethal weapon sexy ass Clapton ass electric guitar that kicks in as the power glove kid plays rad racer let's get a few things straight number one the power glove is trash the power glove is garbanzo you can't control you ain't playing jack shit with the power glove you try to play rad with a power glove and your red ferraris tires will never touch the road this shit was unusable the power glove sold 1.3 million units worldwide at like a hundred bucks a piece and all 1.3 million people who bought a power glove got fed up and threw it out a window and into a tree the teenage mutant ninja turtles NES games sucks also that game was ludicrously offensively hard it was a Russian siaop even Roger ebert couldn't make it to level three of that shit this doesn't matter what matters is Jenny Lewis's response to power glove kid the days intimidated wary captivated look in her eyes and the days intimidated wary captivated tremor in her voice as she says jeez jeez i love the power glove it's so bad yeah well uh just keep your power gloves off her pal huh i love the power glove it's so bad get a load of the riz on this kid people who were alive in 1989 shouldn't say riz but nonetheless Fred Savage is right to be concerned power glove kid is mister steelio girl incarnate i was curious so i looked up the actor the kid who played power glove kid don't do that i regret doing that i do too much research for this show i've been thinking this not all knowledge is power power glove kid is a world historically dastardly villain he's a smug creepy bully with suspiciously voluminous hair he's only in this movie for product placement and just to reiterate his product sucks he's a snake oil salesman with snake oil in his hair he's bad news baby he's bad news he's just bad news bad news bad news and yet and yet and yet and yet one cannot deny the terrible malevolent allure of power glove kid he is a two-bit bad boy for an eight-bit age in his malevolence and is allure they only grow as the years pass and the graphics of his video games improve think of it like this here's a thought experiment for you every 90s and 2000s pop punk song every classic love-born manipulative badgering low-keyed high-key problematic emo song i want you to imagine that every one of those songs is either by power glove kid or song two power glove kid he is either the pursuer or the pursuit and his swagger and his dastardly talent for shameless debasing emotional manipulation knows no bounds he's controlling your emotions like he's wearing some kind of taking back sunday the 2002 hit your so last summer by amity new york emo legends taking back sunday this song is spiritually sung by power glove kid did you could slip my throat and with my one last gasping breath i'd apologize for bleeding on your shirt that's just like something power glove kid would say that's so bad it's a trap he's gaslighting you he's bad news bad news bad news meanwhile skater boy by avril avid a substantially bigger hit from 2002 the whole skateboarding thing is a red herring on skater boy avril is totally singing about power glove kid and avril is totally dissing her romantic rival the dizzy girl who failed to grasp the romantic potential of power glove kid he had a power glove but too bad now we're in love try it try it with any song from any era really video games the song by Lana del Rey obviously canonically Lana del Rey is singing about power glove kid open up a beer and you say get over here and play a video obviously that's about him the justifiable terror in Fred Savage's eyes as he watches Jenny Lewis watch power glove kid never mind how the movie ends never mind any background information about any of these actors a biblically terrible decades long toxic situation ship is born right here in this one star movie when power glove kid grabs Jenny Lewis's arm with his non power glove hand and he drops his best his oiliest his most nefarious his most manipulative pickup line by the way i met her to the championships too and by the way i mentored in the championships too and Jenny tries to shake off power glove kid and stare him down with disinterest with contempt but there is no disguising what she's really thinking and what she's thinking is i can fix him it is 1998 and Jenny Lewis is going to be a rock star now she's in her early 20s she's a veteran and by now mostly retired child actor perhaps you also caught her on TV shows and movies ranging from troop Beverly Hills to the golden girls to Rosanne but Jenny is focused now on her Los Angeles based sweetly vicious indie pop band Ryleau Kylie this song is called the fruit the blank deadpan look on Jenny's face in this video and the softness the smallness the delicacy of her voice to some extent these are shrewed actorly tricks these are gentle manipulations these are weapons do not let this band sweetness blind you to this band's entrancing viciousness also she really can do all those dances do not underestimate this person she's entered in the championships too and i can do the friend i can do the rebel car i can do the Fred me i cannot do the smirk i cannot do the smirk ah yes her bandmates i love it when the boys and ryleau Kylie pipe up at the end there she cannot do the smirk ryleau Kylie consists of Jenny Lewis on vocals and guitar etc Blake Senet on lead guitar and vocals etc Pierre de Reader on bass and Jason Bosele on drums ryleau Kylie are emphatically if tumultuously a band and from the onset on the band's 1999 debut EP an EP called either ryleau Kylie or the initial friend from the onset Jenny Lewis and Blake Senet are both writing and both singing in this band sweetness and viciousness only intensify when their voices intertwine as they do here on the line you're the most exhausting girl i ever knew this song is called poppy on that's french Blake Senet is also a veteran child actor most famously in the nicolodian summer camp sitcom salute your shorts Blake Senet's voice is also deceptively soft and delicate i'm having some trouble wrapping my head around the way this song poppy on ends presented without comment oh yeah okay okay wait oh my god Blake that's what she said i love mess there's your comment that's a little uncouthed Blake there is a perpetual ill-advised horny volatility to ryleau Kylie this band will not hesitate to air their grievances and or invade your privacy the newseal and pop star lord royals and so forth lord is like two years old in 1998 which i shouldn't have looked up too much research but later when she grows up lord will sing bet you rue the day you kissed a writer in the dark you hop in bed with a rock star and the rock star might transcribe your bed dialogue into a rock and roll song and look out if the writer you kissed in the dark is also in your band writing songs for your band that are about kissing you in the dark somewhere early in the ryleau Kylie timeline jenny luis and Blake sent it become a real life romantic couple somewhere later in the ryleau Kylie timeline jenny luis and Blake sent it cease to be a real life romantic couple and despite this breakup the band rumbles on to mulch you asleep the exact details and the exact timeline of their real life romance are obviously none of our business but also obviously none of our business is not an operative concept in rock and roll how many blows to the belly well this thing take the we refer to as our true love we both know it's dead and it's been dying for some time but we refuse to let it go this song is called bullet proof are jenny and Blake singing sweetly about their own dead true love that's none of our business and also yeah sure they might be talking to the new york times in 2025 about her relationship with Blake and the death and resurrection of ryleau Kylie jenny luis says quote i think the end was nigh the moment we first hooked up we never really fixed the issues that we had as a couple i remember a fight that we had after we had first broken up where i threw Blake's pink floyd cd out of the window and then we were hanging out with other people which got very messy on the road and quote i wonder what pink floyd cd she threw out the window i hope it wasn't pulse the pink floyd two cd live album with the blinking red light that cost like 35 bucks i would be super pissed if my bandmate slash x girlfriend threw my pulse cd out the window that song bullet proof appears on the first full-length ryleau Kylie album which comes out in 2001 and is called take-offs and landings the album cover features a technical drawing of a row of airplane seats and yeah from the album title on down this couldn't look more like an early two thousand's indie rock album if it tried mundane instruction manual type phrases and images frayed with mysterious palpable outsized emotion if you know you know the first great ryleau Kylie song is called pictures of success yes emphatically if to mulch-u-slee ryleau Kylie are a band the hypnotic rolling bass line here the pristine pinging guitar harmonics the deceptive softness and delicacy of jenny luis's voice as she sings i'm a modern girl but i fold in half so easily everything is in its right place this song pictures of success is alarmingly beautiful in a way that emphasizes both the beauty and the alarm what is missing here if anything's missing is a sense of mess but the mess ain't missing for long so nobody swears quite like jenny luis every f-bomb drops like an atom bomb the second ryleau Kylie album comes out in 2002 and is called the execution of all things this song is called a better son slash daughter it sounds like a panic attack led by a marching band this is the best ryleau Kylie song by several orders of magnitude and if you think it's the best song by anybody released this century so far that's fine with me though i hope you're doing okay you okay y'all right you need anything you need a hug the self-harmonie there the multitude of jenny's kicking in on you'll fight it you'll make it through holy shit this is possibly the best song by anybody released this century so far i feel fine thanks for asking a better son slash daughter has national anthem energy this song is zeitgeist defining generation defining if you were a young person of a certain emotional disposition in 2002 the lyrics to this song were auto-loaded into your a-o-l instant messenger away message i personally always found ryleau Kylie to be slightly extremely intimidating they're very lost angeles they're very former child actor they're very ultra cool in a way that discouraged me personally from being bold enough to find them relatable there appears to be a deep traumatic personal core to this song which starts with jenny luas arguing with her mother on the phone they seem to have a super gnarly and very la sounding mother daughter relationship that jenny will explore in greater detail later on her first solo album but in my early 20s this song broke some kind of coolness containment for me a better son slash daughter pulls off that wonderful magic trick where the lyrics are so personal and specific and painful that they achieve this ecstatic universality right this is a frantic internal freak out pep talk on a galactic scale and for once even the meekest listeners among us might feel bold enough to sing along the guitar solo rips too yes despite the chaos despite the cacophony of this song a better son slash daughter everything is in its right place here as well this is immaculately structured full band mess jenny luas though she can really swear now can't she that song is called spectacular views and it's the slight loss of vocal control there the way all the delicacy in her voice shatters on the words it's so fucking beautiful that is also beautifully of arming this record the execution of all things comes out on saddle creek records based in omahana braska the domain of conner oberst aka bright eyes aka the vanguard of early two thousands over sharing indy rock but ryle o' cahley are also audibly sharpening and brightening and angling towards some sort of pure pop mainstream adjacent breakthrough and i suppose this is it the key word here is comeer here we have ryle o' cahley on the late night with conno no brion in 2004 playing their modest breakthrough hit portions for foxes man jenny sure does scream the word comeer doesn't she the whole point of building a rock star persona around your masterful sense of control and composure is that it's extra shocking and thrilling when you lose your composure right meanwhile blake senate's front and center here making legit awesome guitar god faces and that clearly is the hugest shiniest catchiest late night talk showest ryle o' cahley chorus of that's on portions for foxes appears on ryle o' cahley's 2004 album more adventurous this band is steadily growing in public profile and esteem also alas this band's gonna make one more album and break up and not reunite until 2025 the final ryle o' cahley studio album comes out in 2007 and is called under the black light this song is called breaking up don't read too much into it it's hard not to read into that a little bit though yes by 2007 jenny lewis and blake senate have both established solo careers blake has already put out two albums with his west coast country-ish band the elected and in 2006 jenny lewis and the watson twins put out a phenomenal record called rabbit fur coat which is also pretty country-ish come to think of it rabbit fur coat gets way more attention jenny lewis gets way more attention there's no way around this whether your band is to mulchewis or not the primary lead singer gets most of the attention to the end blake senate is singing lead on a song or two on every ryle o' cahley album and unfortunately he's peaking as a songwriter just as the band is ending my favorite song on under the black light is called dream world it sounds like fleet woodmack that is alarmingly beautiful guitar tone dude i am not joking i wouldn't joke about guitar tone i am moderately impressed with myself that i waited this long to say the word it sounds like fleet woodmack la pop grandeur thorny intraband dynamics at least one failed romance a dead true love charted song by song from both perspectives ryle o' cahley have distinct unavoidable fleet woodmack energy this is stevey next versus lindsey buckingham all over again well no not chart wise no ryle o' cahley do not have an album one tenth as huge as fleet woodmacks rumors no nobody does really there is no recreating nineteen seventy seven fleet woodmack in any sense but that song dream world is pure eighties fleet woodmack to me tango in the night era fleet woodmack nineteen eighty seven humid pristine island vacation dream pop with discwiting personal undertones tango in the night is fleet woodmacks best album i might actually believe that this song is called big love lindsey buckingham's probably singing about someone else by now but maybe he's not though you see what i mean that is also alarmingly beautiful guitar tone i used to listen to tango in the night on cassette on repeat in nineteen eighty seven while i played the legend of zelda the original zelda for the NES with a gold cartridge i hear tango in the night now and it sends me right back to death mountain i beat that game i beat gannon and nobody paid me fifty thousand dollars big love is also too daunting a point of comparison forget comparing anybody to nineteen seventy seven or nineteen eighty seven fleet woodmack you know what every great two thousand's indy pop band is chasing though nineteen ninety seven fleet woodmack back silver springs from the nineteen ninety seven fleet woodmack live album and concert movie the dance they left this song off of rumors this ridiculously incredible song qualifies as a deep cut that's the magnitude of rock band we're dealing with here any rock band from anywhere from any era with any sort of public real life intraband romance component any rock band of sweetly vicious ex lovers is chasing the glory and the absolute terror of this moment during silver springs when steveen ex turns to lindsay buckingham on stage and death stares him and visibly tries to kill him with a song written by her about him on which he is harmonizing and playing guitar this is stevee's coolest and deadliest weapon the way she just wails you'll never get away at her poor doomed bandmate who will indeed never get away even if he gets kicked out of the band which eventually happens and if we're honest this is not a reachable peak for a twenty-first century rock band either in terms of combining arena rock force with titanic romantic intrigue fleet woodmack or forever the ultimate in terms of stuff that's none of our business being very much all of our business plus i hear something else and i hear someone else in rilok highly on occasion in jenny luis's voice one of my favorite rilok highly songs is from two thousand four from the more adventurous album it's called does he love you it is the tale of infidelity of betrayal of heated romantic rivalry with a shocking reveal that deserves its own spoiler alert and this song starts very politely with softness with smallness with delicacy but this song peaks with jenny luis very strategically totally losing her composure and i hear something and someone else here it's the unrestrained wind machine howl in jenny luis's voice the expertly controlled total lack of control the glorious trans substantiation of none of our business into all of our business i hear a classic rock star archetype here a hallowed rock and roll lineage the superstar singer who is emphatically tumultuously part of a messy chaotic exasperating an absolutely necessary band and she will never give up the spotlight but she doesn't want to give up the band either and your band can break up in reunite or you can lose members and find them again and lose them again and you can threaten to go solo and maybe you do but maybe you come back later and you can write beautifully vicious songs about your bandmates who you might be semi-secretly dating and then sing those songs whether those particular bandmates are on stage with you or not but you will always just be writers kissing other writers in the dark and you will never get away never get away never get away my name is rob harvilla this is the 36th episode of 60 songs that explain the 90s cold in the 2000s in this week we are discussing misery business by paramor from their 2007 album riot riot exclamation paramor are a tumultuous electrifying era defining pop punk band from franklin tenisee rilocyle at their routiest remind me of paramor paramor at their most delicate remind me of rilocyle two of the highest compliments i can offer any band it didn't take quite as long as usual to hit the ad break but let's not get cocky about it delightful if you're like me and you've wondered if jenny luis of rilocyle and hayley Williams of paramor ever appeared on stage together well for once i've got great news some knowledge is power here we've got jenny and hayley on stage in february 2025 at the hollywood palladium at a charity event called give a fuck la to benefit victims of the january 2025 la wildfires they are singing a rilocyle song called let me back in when los angeles rock bands aren't singing about their personal messy love affairs they're usually singing about los angeles itself pierder reader of rilocyle is on stage two along with katie gabin of the great la pop band moona katie's on violin though of course the main event here it's finally getting to hear jenny's and hayley's voices sweetly intertwine and of course we get some rando in the crowd it is just like a man to go woo just as jenny and hayley start getting after it shat app this is for charity how about you donate your respectful silence also jenny and hayley do a little tap dancing woo that's nice you can go woo all you want during the tap dancing part dude that's fine so hayley Williams is born in meridian mississippi in 1988 her parents split up when she is very young in an interview with vulture in 2020 hayley says quote my parents divorce was the pivotal moment of my life i keep discovering ways in which it asks me how to work on myself and quote hayley's mom starts a new relationship with a man hayley will later describe in an interview with a guardian in 2020 as quote a nightmare of a stepfather and quote i am dissatisfied with the sound of my own voice in conveying any of this backstory to you i have been inclined to let hayley take it from here in 2020 hayley Williams put out a solo album called flowers for vases slash discontos this song is called inordinary i was hung up on this song for a very long time it is the absolute fronario quiet of this song the stillness the delicacy the terrible gravity all of that yes if you've ever seen paramour the tumultuous electrifying era defining pot punk band in concert hayley is bouncing around she's dancing like literally everyone in the arena is watching she's head banging she's rolling around she's bellowing she's exultant even during her angriest songs so to hear hayley's voice barely registering above a whisper here a generally loud singer getting super quiet is just as shocking as a generally quiet singer getting super loud this is jenny Lewis screaming come here in reverse and it's four words here on this song inordinary that stop me cold every time the four words are she said don't worry and it's beyond the fact that hayley's voice gets just a little louder there that she slides up into her head voice on don't worry that there's a slight wounded bulletproof hitch in her voice on just the word worry it's that when hayley william sings those four words she sounds simultaneously like a mother trying to sue the worried child and like a worried child trying to believe her mother paramour is a band of broad rapturous pot punk strokes bombast chaos volume exploding color joy fury mess but it's important to understand from the beginning that paramour's lead singer can sing just four words that quietly with that much raw heart-stopping power so teenage hayley williams and her mom moved to franklin tenisey 20 miles south of nashville in 2025 and the ringer podcast good hang with Amy polar hayley says she first learned about the power of her own voice as a teenager while singing in church singing boring hymns hayley realized that singing soothed her anxiety quieted her stomach ache slow down grounded her paramour are never quite a Christian rock band technically but they are never entirely not a Christian rock band spiritually all right let's start a band full of teenagers in franklin tenisey hayley meets fellow homeschooled musical prodigies josh fero and his younger brother zack fero hayley briefly plays in a funk cover band called the factory which includes a bassist named jeremmy davis and he joins this new band of teenagers as well a little farther down the line they add a guitarist named jason binaum a fellow teenage prodigy named taylor york is hanging around a lot and co-writing songs a little bit but he won't join up officially until 2007 so never mind him for now this is paramour for now hayley williams on vocals josh fero on guitar zack fero on drums jeremmy davis on bass jason binaum on rhythm guitar hayley and josh will write most of the songs that's simple enough paramour signed to atlantic records that's nice in the first paramour album starts with an angry song about how their bassist has left the band already i love mess yes the first thing you need to understand about paramour is that the first line of the first song on the first paramour album is about internal strife within paramour the band's debut album is called all we know is falling this song is called all we know and yes the line we tried so hard to understand but we can't i love the way she holds that last word she holds we can't for that long this line is addressing former paramour bassist jeremmy davis who in fact had quit the band just days after arriving in Orlando to record the band's debut album which raises the question what would the first paramour album have been about primarily if their bass player hadn't left immediately before they started making it by the way jeremmy will rejoin the band after this album is out and he will play bass in paramour until 2015 here's the all we know is falling album cover by the way it's an empty couch because their bass player isn't sitting on it mundane color saturated images frayed with mysterious palpable outsized emotion this couldn't look more like a mid-2000s pop-punk album cover if it tried and it's really trying meanwhile check out the video for all we know check out how offensively young these people are i personally have never been this young in my entire life teenagers as william shakespeare wrote teenagers scare the living shit out of me sorry that was my chemical romance sorry as emily bronte wrote we are teenagers we don't know anything sorry that was haley williams solo on the soundtrack to the movie jennifer's body later sorry paramour are teenagers their kids the all we know video is a basic live performance deal plus a backstage footage of the band goofing around right smiling and pointing at the camera and hugging and hauling amps around engaging wistfully out the window of their touring van as they conquer america such as the power of the myth of rock and roll that this agonized grouchy paramour song about their basis leaving can still mythologize the act of being in a rock and roll band this rock video makes being in a rock band look cool and fun and easy this album all we know is falling comes out unfueled by ramen records the cool punk rock subsidiary of atlantic records uh all right another quick thing only haley williams is signed to atlantic records only haley williams is signed to paramour's record label they signed her as a solo artist back in 2003 because they wanted her to be a pop punkish solo superstar just like avril levin just like since you've been gone aera kelly klaxon just like ashley simpson just like solo gwen stifani but haley doesn't want to be a solo star she wants a band talking to the podcast behind the brand in 2017 haley says quote i would see movies like the temptations or even spice world and i just thought they're all having fun with their friends making music and it's their thing it's their job and i wanted that i wanted that us against the world kind of thing end quote as bands go the temptations and the spice girls are not exactly the most conventional and stable band models available but let haley cook uh so paramour are a band because haley williams wants them to be a band paramour are emphatically and tumultuously and defiantly a band paramour are also secretly not technically a band contractually and the other guys in the band will not be psyched to learn this later but mostly they'll get over it unless they don't hey this song is called pressure pressure is the first minor paramour hit in the first great paramour song dig the huge chunky anthemic guitar chords dig the weedle d dddle d heavy metal guitar riff dig the lyrics about being better off without you that are probably still addressed to their old bass player who will be back soon and then leave again eventually plus dig the new temporary bass player rolling off the guitar players back in the video while the sprinklers overhead drench everybody being in a band looks awesome and fun and easy and writing gargantuan arena-sized pop punk songs looks super easy even if you're writing them by accident talking to vulture in 2020 haley williams says quote the guys and i didn't listen to pop punk before writing pressure we listened to heavier stuff like death tones we wanted to be darker suddenly we wrote pressure and that was it we were gonna write emo bops sick i'm psyched that happened but suddenly the type of attention we were getting was different i did not know how toxic that world could be end quote she means the warped tour we just think it's time these were the new dapras forget this way sweet yeah and here we have paramour on stage at the warped tour in 2005 doing a song up their first record called here we go again haley williams can ring the pathos out of just a few notes just a few words words like we can't and you ran or like right now she can expertly and melodically cram a whole bunch of angst ridden words into 15 seconds words like regret and take it back and forget the things we swore we meant haley williams is 16 years old in summer 2005 and drummer zack pharaoh is even younger as both a band and as individual people paramour sound a great deal more remorseful and jaded and wistful than a band of literal teenagers ought to sound or all teenagers sound this jaded and regretful everywhere always it's one of those two anyways here we have paramour on stage at the warped tour in 2005 the warped tour if you're unfamiliar being the legendary multi stage maximum chaos traveling summer punk rock festival that launched in 1995 it got steadily huger and more chaotic as pop punk and emo got steadily huger and more chaotic specifically here we've got paramour on the sheerah girl stage which is indeed an all-girl band warped tour stage named for sheerah girl the southern california punk band the year before 2004 sheerah girl got themselves a cheap RV and painted it pink and they crashed the warped tour and so here in 2005 the warped tour made the sheerah girl stage official which is great even if it does require haley williams to perform literally below a giant sign that basically reads girl stage i feel like you can hear how hard 16 year old haley is head banging right here even if you can't see it sheerah girl got herself a huge head banging sheerah girl got herself a huge head banging she is head banging extremely hard in that video uh in that 2020 vulture interview haley describes the warped tour as brutally misogynistic she talks about being pissed initially that paramour were invited to play on a girl stage at the warped tour she says quote we had to prove ourselves very hard i would spit farther yell louder and thrash my neck wilder than anyone the next summer we moved up to a slightly bigger stage that was the year of the fucking condoms end quote she means that trojan condoms was a 2006 warped tour sponsor and people in the crowd threw condoms at her on stage and at least one got stuck to her chest she talks about the awful and gross shit boys and men would say to her as a now 17 year old girl she's talked specifically in other interviews including a new york times pop cast interview in 2025 about gross stuff no effects frontman fat mic said about her on stage at the warped tour when she was underage there's another great solo haley william song from 2025 called good old days with a chorus that goes who knew the hard times were the good old days i'm pretty sure she's talking about other hard times but this is a person who's been talking about hard times and good old days from the very beginning my favorite song on the first paramour album is called franklin named for the bands hometown which is no longer their home at all their home is the road now their home is the band now it is paramour against the world franklin is a power ballad of sorts haley sings everything has changed the boys in the band sing because you remind me of a time when we were so alive do you remember that do you remember that teenagers jaded and wistful teenagers teenagers scare the living shit out of themselves i dig the whole first paramour album i like that song franklin quite a bit and so i mean no offense when i say that paramour are about to level up dramatically and absurdly that's your hard win that's what you get when you get your hard win the second paramour album comes out in 2007 and is called riot riot exclamation point this song is called that's what you get and it's the best song paramour has ever done shout out guitar hero if you play this song in the video game guitar hero two with the plastic guitar then you know that the bomb before the chorus is the best part of the song that's what you get is co-written by haley Williams josh fero and guitarist Taylor York who will officially be joining paramour very soon don't get me started on the line-up changes all right we ain't got time for all that i would need a flowchart in a true detective murder board with the pins and the strings and whatnot and i would also need 45 minutes myriad lineup changes being in a band is fun and easy this is the best paramour song this is the best paramour chorus i love four line choruses with an a a b a structure where the first second and fourth lines are basically identical and only the third line deviates from the pattern electrifyingly like so i love that structure very much i love the line i drowned out all my sense with the sound of it's beating very much i love any song that uses whoa this many times that's what you get is a pop punk song it is an emo pop as haley might put it because paramour are now a blockbuster magazine cover much larger warp tour stage type pop punk band but that's what you get also would have been a monster arena rock anthem in the 70s or a monster hair metal anthem in the 80s or a monster alternative rock anthem in the 90s what makes paramour huge from this moment forward is both their none of our business personal specificity and they're all of our business rock star universality just take the word halee luya for example that's a famous rock star word that's a famous and glor heavy song title but haley Williams sings the paramour song called halee luya like no one's ever sung that word before or like no one's ever sung that word correctly not a christian rock band technically never not a christian rock band spiritually if you're like me sometimes you just sit around contemplating the relative sameness of all rock music right the structure of a huge rock radio song never changes really intro verse pre-chorus chorus second verse pre-chorus chorus bridge guitar solo last chorus and year out that's been it basically for like 75 years and yet paramour both adhere to and triumphantly transcend this formula by delivering a pre-chorus like nobody's ever thought to do a pre-chorus before that song's called crush crush crush all one word lowercase the pre-chorus is even cooler if you whisper it everyone knows that the two three four is absolutely essential there as well everyone knows that also the whole riot album is like this it is a disconcerting mastery of classic arena rock form it is immaculately structured mess riot comes out in 2007 when halee Williams is still 18 we're still dealing with teenagers here increasingly famous teenagers who are historically the scariest kind of teenagers in part because they tend to be the meanest and the messiest a mariachi band intro that's a new one that's a fine addition to the huge rock radio song formula shout out mariachi reality mehiko who are credited in the riot liner notes in the messy scrawled riot album cover no doubt type font it took me forever to find mariachi reality mehiko in the credits i had to physically pick up my laptop and try to twist it to read all the words it's very annoying this doesn't matter misery business begins with a mariachi band and then halee Williams saying hit that hit that snare and then a guitar riff worthy of inclusion in the video game guitar hero world tour i don't think i played that one i'm sorry that doesn't matter either but it matters to me so what and who precisely misery business is about depends on when you ask if you ask the band in 2007 when the riot album comes out and when paramour appear on the cover of the great cleveland institution alternative press magazine when ap asks halee Williams about this song then she responds carefully and vaguely she says quote the whole song is a true story in real life the situation was a lot darker than it was in the song but when i wrote it i made myself come off a lot stronger than i was at the time it's a pretty embarrassing situation and it took me a long time to feel strong enough to say something about it but now three years later i'm no longer reliving it and quote halee also says that talking about misery business makes her watch you crawl into a hole probably that'll never change and the permanent none of our business intrigue radiating off this song it's a different story there's way less permanent intrigue here without this second verse without that second line in the second verse without once a horror you're nothing more i'm sorry that'll never change that particular word is not exactly unheard of in rock and roll but that particular word is rare enough to be jarring to be shocking to drive a 20 year public discourse of controversy and recrimination and cancelation and un-cancellation and gradual revelation for example by 2020 talking to vulture halee is describing the genesis of misery business a little more specifically quote when i was 13 or 14 and i had a crush on Josh he didn't like me back he would go hang out with his girlfriend who i wrote misery business about because i was a dick and quote she means Josh Farrow the guitar player in paramour at the time teenagers i dig the repetition of i refuse i refuse i refuse there into the second chorus that's an elite songwriting move elite songwriters make the messiest teenagers so misery business is a teenage pop punk song about intraband romance with a high school set mean girls coded video but even in 2007 hailey williams is working to keep even her fans from dismissing this song as mere teenage melodrama talking to alternative press she says quote i know we are a lot younger than even a lot of our fans and it's a constant fight to get people to take us seriously i grew up with my parents fighting a lot and the guys in the band grew up with similar situations anyone can see what love isn't no matter what their age i think that's the most important message of that song and quote and the coolest parts of misery business is during the bridge when the boys in the band crash back in on the word involving it makes all the difference in the world that hailey just sings involving at the end they're not involving you this is my personal experience of misery business you zoom in on the tiny crucial phenomenal details then you zoom back out for you know the discourse after 11 years paramor will stop playing misery business live in 2018 hailey will announce this on stage in Nashville before playing the song one last time and then paramor will resume playing misery business live in 2022 including when paramor go on tour opening for this lady here we have a 2010 song called better than revenge by one tailor swift when tailor re-records this song in 2023 she will semi gracefully change the line about the things that she does on the mattress teenagers regretful teenagers as for paramor somehow we have only begun to chronicle the fleetwood mac calamity inherent to this band josh and zack feral leave the band noisily in 2010 in part over the whole only hailey is signed to our record label business those act will return in 2017 and as of 2026 paramor officially consists of hailey williams tailor york and zack feral and hailey makes rad solo albums too now and there is further intraday band romance to decode at great length on the internet and who knows when this band will record and or tour again but if paramor ever do tour again they'll probably still play misery business and hopefully they'll play this messy emo bop as well the third paramor album comes out in 2009 and is called brand new eyes this song is called the only exception it is the second best paramor song after that's what you get either still into you or aided fun is the third best paramor song you pick the only exception is a power ballad it is the band's most delicate most vulnerable most ryleau kiley-esque power ballad it is a cigarette lighter waving classic for a non cigarette lighter age it is about never getting away and never wanting to and it is probably not about power glove kid the actual lyrical backstory here the exact subject of this song the personal emotional stakes for hailey williams and others uh well all of that real life context gets a little gnarly uh but that of course is none of our business we are so delighted to be joined by rob majoni senior staff writer for the ranger and podcast superstar and renaissance man you've heard slash seen him on band explain house of r the rangers NBA show group chat the prestige tv podcast and many other fine programs rob thank you so much for being here are you kidding thanks for having me i am thrilled i think you're my first rob it's gonna be wrong about that yeah so the first command against rob wow yeah you you should be honored to be the only other rob allowed in this venue well famously there can only be one i think there there's some mythologies by which we would have to destroy each other to consolidate our power but i hope that doesn't happen by the end of the pot i think we'll be all right paramor is not really a divisive topic necessarily maybe maybe that'll happen down the line but we'll we'll keep it civil for today um my understanding is that you got into paramor before it was cool is that correct uh before is cool is one way to put it i would say before it was available enough to pirate so that i actually had to buy this cd uh that early enough certainly okay was it the first record yeah first record right out of the gate uh i think it was like just accessible enough to me as a 16 year old who basically would phase out if it wasn't i mean pop punk certainly but if at least it wasn't like alt rock sensibility i would just stop listening to it and so it's familiar enough but then also hailey comes in and like blows your swooping bangs aside and all of a sudden you can see like everything that this band could bring to the table potentially yeah i was gonna ask like what drew you to paramor initially and if it was anything beyond hailey or as hailey like more than enough to draw you in initially she's certainly more than enough but like at that stage in particular like for that first album it's the most generic that they've ever sounded as far as just like a band of that era and there were many like them many with like impressive vocalists of different kinds i think it's honestly like that that kind of accessibility worked for me and mattered to me as a 16 year old who was dumb and did not know better versus now if you tap into the hailey Williams experience um it can be synth poppy it can obviously be in this more like punk pop tradition it can also be like increasingly shoe gazing apparently as she starts yet another band that's right power snatch i'm sorry that i just said that to you out loud but i do think that's actually the name of her new band so that is unfortunate and yet accurate i'm glad that we have you on record i think we can just click that audio and send it to you just just repeat it 30 for 30 seconds that's a social clip right there we'll we'll cut that out um okay i they were i'm they were released the records paramor records on fueled by ramen which is a very cool sort of pop punk label less than jake etc but they're a major label band and like does that matter at all in 2005 or is that all a remnant of the 90s the idea of like a pretend indie a major label band like do you care about that kind of thing at all even in 2005 i actually did care about it and some of that is like i was so fall out boy inclined that fueled by ramen meant something to me whereas sure if they if they had just been an Atlantic records band all the way through it late like the idea of being an Atlantic records band in 2005 meant absolutely nothing whatsoever it's like such a big tent especially at that point there's no recognizable identity to anything happening there so the idea that it's like having this cosine of other bands i'm interested in that it feels of a wave and of a conversation with you know if not just fallout boy then at least some bands that are kind of following in their wake that honestly did pull me in like i honestly think the first time ever became aware of them was like probably from some like random like pure volume dot com message board and then from there straight to like the fuel by ramen web store to buy the aforementioned cd so i have to say like i was caught in that particular web okay i have to say i love all we know is falling to but you know i agree with you that it's the most generic sounding paramour record and the the leap between that record and riot is just enormous like the difference between like that's what you get in anything they've done previously like when you heard riot for the first time did it sound like the same band like did it sound like the same band like times 10 now i think the times 10 is probably the good modifier especially given where they've gone since that point right we've seen like radical transformations between albums for paramour by now but this felt like an intensification of the same concepts of the same ideas it felt like a natural growth album for not just a young band but like for hailey woehm's in particular such a young person like growing into like a teenage like pop punk star is its own kind of you know celebrity but i'm sure also personal hell in a lot of ways and to see someone in a band come through the first phase of that and all of its obstructions with riot right i think it's just like an incredible accomplishment yeah i agree and i misery business was such a huge hit immediately and you said to me something like you know it was so huge there was almost an impulse within the scene to sort of push it away a little bit like it had broken containment into sort of a pop universe a pure pop universe and it sort of threatened to overshadow the band like it was a hit so big you know that they were going to be carrying it around you know like radio had a creep or something like that like what was your evolution with misery business as a song in real time yeah first listen oh my god this rips second listen is this the greatest chorus of all time but then by athlis and ninthless and tenthless and i think this is where there's like a differentiation between you know a song like the middle or a song like thanks for the memories though like those truly escape into like the pop atmosphere right they become the song you hear everywhere you step into a department store and you hear that song yeah misery business i don't think ever really crossed that threshold but it did be true it did for me become the song you hear on every friend's live journal and so that is its own kind of like bubble amplification happening that sure yeah like at a certain point you want to be the person who loves the deeper cut off of the paramour album even while acknowledging yeah misery business is great but also have you heard xy or z you keep talking about like pure volume you know live journal and like my space and i think it's always an underrated part of this process for me like you have to remember exactly what the internet was like when misery business first blew up like is your memory of this song even now when you hear this song are you transported back to like the angel fire era like how much does the internet matter to the way you remember this song oh i think it's baked in completely i think it's yes it's a very internet of its time song i think it's a very like i have like a sense memory of like a people attempting to sing this on like rock band for the xbox like yeah just like a very a relic that because it was so singular and so powerful at that time has gone on to have an incredible afterlife and has become you know as informed all kinds of music to come has become one of their singular hits has you know fallen in and out of their set list as i'm sure we can talk about but like it is an inescapable song because it is so hokey and so powerful and so charismatic and that starts with locating it in that very like i dug this up in the back corner of an internet and what it was not served to me kind of satisfaction that i think it's so critical to early paramour success in a lot of different ways the pre algorithm internet in in general is a good way maybe to think about it which seems like a better internet now certainly i think the the guitar the rock band is very important guitar hero and that's what you get is very important me personally that's like my all-time favorite guitar hero song is that what you get i was very good at it i don't mind telling you i i i got i believe in that not actually i have that on video somewhere i i should dig it up i would have to like hook it up and i get it working again but you're absolutely right another great social opportunity here and i'm always on the like i will get big on tiktok by playing old songs on guitar hero that sounds like perfect 2026 social media thank you very much you mentioned to me that misery business may be the all-time greatest hailey vocal which is very high praise indeed like just the songs to come the records to come even the solo stuff to come what is it about misery business that still might make this you know her best performance on a purely singing level yeah i think there are a lot of vocals she has as you said solo and otherwise where you could identify the way that like all i wanted has this incredible range or decode decode has this like evanescence-ing quality that i think is like very powerful in its own way still into you i think deserves a place in this conversation too for me it's like it's two things with misery business one it tricks you into thinking that it's something much simpler than it actually is and it's one of those vocals where if you just listen to the gymnastics that hailey Williams is doing on the bridge or the like stair stepping precision as she goes through the like it was never my intention to brag over and over uh yeah like that is bravera stuff that isn't as obvious necessarily as some of those other vocal arrangements but i think it's incredibly powerful and as you will find if you try to sing the song yourself very difficult to do but the other part is like it's all personality and some of her other some of her other great vocal songs yeah they have a truth to them you can feel them like in your chest in a certain kind of way this has like a snarl and an edge that has always been kind of part of her performance style but it's just like really tapping into her charisma as a performance it's like it's one thing to write that stuff in a teenage diary burn book kind of way as these lyrics are it's another thing to really really believe them as you're performing them and i think that's to me what sells the vocal is being ultimately her best is like where it comes from right i agree with you like the personality is important like i always think i'm still into you like just your mother like there's some quality of her vocals on that that the edge and the attitude is present there for me and the way it is with misery business like misery business has a lot of words yeah i imagine like if you're trying to sing in karaoke at karaoke or in a car or whatever just it's a ton of words in the verses to that song and then these swooping high notes in the chorus like it's it's a harder song to sing than you think which is always a very dangerous proposition you know in a car or at karaoke oh absolutely true i mean i i think it's one of those things where and this to me is why it's better for one than the other if you try to sing misery business at karaoke uh you're subjecting people to i think just like a violation of the social contract like when you step into that room and you make up the mic there's an understanding like you can like reasonably fake your way through this and this is not a song you can fake your way through maybe you can talk sing your way through the verse but like when belting time comes you're fucking cooked i'm sorry like i don't care how powerful a singer you are that's not the moment where you can like shrink into your falsetto because like that's not what the song is yes yes so you just said you said something like this is the ultimate car sing along yeah song and i agreed with that but i was wondering what the difference is i agree with you and karaoke like there's just a skill issue that is offensive to your fellow karaoke years that you're just not going to reach that point but what makes this song ideal for like a group sing along in a moving vehicle i mean for one the propulsion obviously just tempo wise it tracks with hurtling down the highway or through your suburban neighborhood or kind of whatever your setting is uh sure but also like i feel like for a car sing along unlike karaoke there is that mutual understanding that we don't need to be able to pull this off right like you're not isolated on an instrumental track where it is just you like you have hailey holding your hand the whole way and she's going to be belting louder than you are belting and so there's just like a lot of cover in that situation where we can all scream it together but there's no judgment in that space which you know i think paramour would approve of strength and numbers that totally makes sense to me so as you alluded this is there's a long you know arduous history behind this song right now they very publicly announced you know on stage hailey announced we're going to stop playing this now and they've sort of equally publicly started playing it again you know over you know there was a span of a couple years at least where it was out of the set list and i i don't ever want to describe something as cancelled or even self cancelled but there's this really weird arduous discourse about this song you know in the 15 20 years that it's been a very popular song like what do you make of the arc of misery business uh i'm glad we've arked back to this being a song that is part of their set list for a bunch of different reasons including it's just a great song and an incredibly powerful one to hear live i also the way it was phased out that they chose to phase this song out based on basically one line in the song struck me as like a very well-meaning overreaction to some people a couple people in a very small corner of the internet being very big mad about you know a representation and a performance of i guess like a kind of anti feminism is ultimately the critique that hailey and the band try to push away from of like specifically this idea of if you want to take the narrator of the song calling this other girl or woman a horror look no one's gonna no one's gonna defend it right like that's not a great thing to do out in the world i also think this song while it does have that edge to it is like 10 percent meaner than Avril Lavigne skater boy and i have not heard a single word about Avril Lavigne skater boy it's just that's true it's just not that serious and so the fact that it is it is phased back into their playlist they don't hailey doesn't sing that line anymore totally fair game and even sometimes when the audience does sing that line she will like playfully finger wag at them almost like that it's become a bit more than it has an actual controversy i think is the right place for this to land no that's that's a lovely thing i don't remember the exact timeline but it's twin in my mind with Taylor Swift with better than revenge which is first of all a very paramour sounding Taylor Swift song and when Taylor was doing her re-recordings tailors versions like she changes the line you know about the stuff you do on the mattress right like that they always ran in parallel for me and like do you personally do you want a band to evolve and to go back to their old stuff and to reconsider it and to contend with their past you know and maybe change lyrics or excise songs entirely that they don't stand by anymore or do you prefer a band they like owns its past you know even the possibly uglier more confrontational parts of this past i think changing bits and pieces feels like a fair compromise that we can all come to where every artist is cringing in some way or another about the thing that they wrote 20 years ago if they're lucky enough to have that longer career that's right and so the idea that yeah I want to tweak this line because it doesn't represent me anymore or just because i've evolved and i would prefer to say this other thing instead that tracks for me i think where i have problems is when bands start excising as you said like entire portions of their history where it's like we don't even acknowledge that this era of us ever happened that feels i mean just like a level of revisionism that is a disservice to listeners to fans of those artists and bands that just feels like it's rewriting history in kind of a way that makes my skin crawl like it's okay to be messy like it's okay for art especially to be messy and i think there's a lot of gray area to work with and a lot of room for you know eating crow here and there or apologizing for this and that but like the idea that you need to just completely distance yourself from a past version of you doesn't feel like it really services anybody to me no i agree completely you know it's paramour as the bands there's there's always there's all these parallel discourses right we've had a lot of lineup changes we've had very public you know comings and goings you know we've had intraband real manzes like do you does that stuff enhance the music for you or distract from the music when you were getting a new paramour i'm like brand new eyes for example you know were you listening to that album specifically to sort of read the tea leaves of what these songs are saying what haley's trying to say like encode about what's going on in her personal life or within the bandly is that helpful to you or does that sort of crowd out the music for you all the drama that people are trying to decode behind the scenes honestly for me it's neither uh i still enjoy the music just as much that stuff is not particularly for me but i'm not above it and i think you know to go back to kind of this idea of paramour being of a particular era of the internet i think this ties into that conversation really acutely where hmm i'm all four bands having all sorts of entry points and for different people it might be just like i heard misery business and that song rips and i want to hear more further people it might be paramour as of this particular scene or or like subculture and i want to tap into that maybe it's a fashion thing maybe it is an iconography maybe it is just simply like these sorts of best kept secret ideas that you are always like i am one tumbler post away from understanding what is happening here that yeah has contributed to you know the larger Taylor Swiftification of a lot of pop music and just like these buried Easter eggs it's like that that concept that if i can just be enough of a fan in this particular way there is like untold depth to these songs is a really appealing and attractive idea that for me like i'm not going that deep but if if that's what it takes if that's if that's what you get from enjoying paramour than i support you i love that for you is i think the right way to approach the majority of what people are doing on the internet that's a very healthy approach that you've taken we try um rob what is the best paramour album and how cool is it that nobody can agree on what the best paramour album it's honestly one of my favorite things about them uh yeah for me it is after laughter which i know some people might not have in their top three albums depending on what your sensibilities are i think there are a lot of people who love brand new eyes and that album does very little for me and so the idea that there's a paramour for everybody i find to be one of the most attractive things about the band but i love after laughter as a reunion album of sorts as a departure album uh it's clearly like again their most like synth poppy especially at that point uh effort to that date but i think that it's just like full of things i didn't know paramour could do and some of that is being full of adult anxiety in a way that maybe this is just me right now but certainly speaks to where i'm at yeah does the only exception do anything for you just speaking of brand new eyes it's sort of the anomaly on that record yeah but like that's i love that song so much but i'm sort of conscious that maybe where is the hardcore paramour fan do you think on the only exception and where are you this is a very thorny question uh it is it is i find my understanding at least based again based off my cursory dips into paramour internet is that haley herself is not the biggest fan of this song i can imagine that's true as you know not just as a hit of a certain kind but maybe a certain performance style or so you know the history of that song in particular it's not what i returned to a lot it's one i'm impressed by and will glance through but i can't say it's like a load bearing paramour hit for me again a healthy approach i think it's weird to listen to riot and listen to misery business and think of this as a fairly young band right like they're not superstars yet they're a warped tour band you know and and they get huge on the warped tour but the warped tour haley has talked a lot very recently about how traumatic it was and how ugly it was and how she was treated and how she was talked about like i what were your personal warped tour memories you know and did you think of paramour in real time even up to riot as like primarily a warped tour band i mean certainly of that ilk i think yeah i mean everything that haley has talked about in terms of the bands that were performing and promoted and just like the larger boys club feeling of if we're going to be honest like basically every rock movement in history but certainly pop punk and emo at this time unquestionable undeniable pretty fucked up in the grand scheme of things it's it's a miracle that she and the band made it through that point and a bigger one that they have sustained in the way that they have and kind of reinvented themselves so many times but at that like at that snapshot they did feel like a warped tour band to me and they felt like exactly this like again this very particular time where it's like and maybe the only point in no not maybe definitely the only point in human history you could show up on a day and see uh Thursday paramour and real big fish all in rapid succession and that's simply a thing that had to be captured in time and will never happen again uh i mean it's it's a very strange place i i will always remember warped tour as fundamentally it's such a younger crowd that it's a lot of like random injuries happening as a result of like babies first mosh pit uh yeah yeah yeah inescapable a lot of rookies yeah legitimately uh so a lot of rookie mistakes being made my other lasting memory is people going to see the band they used and their lead singer Bert wait Bert McCracken i was want to call him that was that uh Bert McCracken who would sing so hard he would vomit on stage and people rushing to the front to get vomited on so like that is the place of time that we are coming from sure i don't want that i don't think i wanted that from anybody from any band at any point in my life and now i'm wondering if i'm just i'm not locked in enough on rock and roll that i've never actively wanted to be vomited on maybe not by Bert McCracken or anybody that's that's really unpleasant to think about i'm sorry to bring it to the table it's all right no i appreciate you talking about it i don't want to talk about it but you can talk okay that's that's gross man absolutely that's really and that but that was the that was it was the style at the time i guess it certainly was um i just a couple questions to wrap up like one of the big questions dogging paramour the whole time is like when will hailey go solo will she go solo like obviously it comes out eventually that only she's signed to the label but she really wants it to be a band and it's still a band but she does eventually start putting out solo records but they're very different they're very quiet they're very modest but like ego death at a bachelor at party her her solo record from last year from 2025 like i love that record i love that record as much as any paramour album if that's weird to say and i wonder what you make of her solo and what you get from her solo that you don't necessarily get from paramour yeah i think part of it is those albums to me really establish solo hailey as one of like the great vocal shapeshifters are for generation and you see this somewhat paramour we talked about the way that the band has kind of like changed their sound over time but paramour to me as a band mostly treats hailey's vocal as like its own special effect right there is mid there's some touching up there's some formatting they're doing some things with it but it's front and center in like a very clear and mostly undistilled way on these solo albums and i would say on ego death in particular which is i think by far my favorite of her solo effort so far i mean there is layering and modifying and just like a presentation of a totally different style that yeah i mean it just explodes into something else and so you hear that record and you're like i hear a little fjona apple and here i hear a little lana del rei and here i hear like some carolina pola check in here and the idea of as you're saying like the culmination of all this i mean i guess it extent that it's always spiraling like she's a solo artist and in paramour and in this other band and in this other band um but i love that she wanted to be in a band from the outset and i love that even after being in one for so many years she would still have so many different musical things to say in all of these different capacities it's super telling to me that paramour opens for part of the aeroes tour you know they're directly connected to taylor swift i hear so much of paramour in like a liby or adrigo even someone like chapel ron like i hear so much paramour in our biggest pop stars now like is haley Williams to you the platonic ideal of both a rock star and a pop star i mean i'm biased but i do think so i think it would be insane to use her as a template like to look at haley Williams and say i'm just gonna try to do everything she did that would be a little wild including just like how she performs but if you want to boil it all down as like a performer who has been able to manifest what she has wanted for her career through a lot of shit who is in that like hundred percentile in terms of charisma not just in a room but on a stage uh the fact that she's become an icon in her own way on her own terms and that she's like dealt with all this stuff and hasn't always been perfect but owned up to things in just the right way like i just think there's a lot there that any pop star any want to be rock star could take away and frankly i mean this is also legally decided but if you just listen to misery business you can basically see a live via ronrigo like sprouting out of the side of haley's head uh so it's kind of inarguable at a certain point sure that's that's a very rich image on which to close i think rob i really thank you so much for talking man this has been awesome i really appreciate it oh a real treat for me thanks rob thanks very much to our guests this week rob majoni thanks to our producers Olivia kreary justin sales and chris sudden additional production by kevin pooler animations and graphics by chris culletin additional art by mat james uh special thanks to koul kushna and special thanks to you of course for listening slash watching and now let's all go listen to misery business by paramour we'll see you next week