EP: 425 The Pharisee Spirit and the War Within with Jess Phoenix

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Go to quince.com slash blurry for free shipping and 365-day returns. quins.com slash blurry. being in the occult you get attacked all the time you know that's normal everything's very competitive there's a lot of gossiping a lot of tearing each other down that's why everyone's doing protection spells all the time because everyone's coming after them that was like my normal life for years so when i came into christianity i felt like oh do you know what i can finally brief there's no nasties in christianity everyone's nice for a couple weeks. That could not have been more wrong. Yeah. The history of our Earth is so different from what we can imagine. Enjoy the journey. The Smithsonian, if they found out about a large skeleton somewhere, was to go get it. I'm going to assume at least one person is right. Because if one person's right, it busts the paradigm. It all goes back to the fallen chariot. And the problem with the modern day church, they have a very truncated view of the supernatural. This backdrop is just pregnant with all kinds of meaning associated with this Mount Hermon event. And this guy defects from the kingdom. That's a big deal. just phoenix you were on episode 385 welcome back to blurry creatures i felt like we just scratched the surface the first time you came on the podcast obviously when you come out of new age you come out of witchcraft you come out of these things you get introduced into uh the wonderful world of the kingdom of heaven but it doesn't stop there there's a whole campaign it seems in the spirit world to take down people who have come to faith and are excited and have a lot of energy and want to be welcomed in to the new family. And then you quickly find out you're a target of this sort of religious spirit, Pharisee spirit, all these things. So welcome back. I would love to talk about the Pharisee spirit because you posted some stuff online lately that really kind of made me go, oh, you know, we deal with that a little bit over here. Like, let's talk about that. So welcome back to Blurry Creatures. Is your water turned on? How are you doing over there in the UK? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Don't worry about that. I'm no longer smelly. Yeah, it's all right. We talk about the smelly creatures out there, so we're fine with if you're a little smelly. Yeah, man, they got them down in Florida, the old skunk ape. Bigfoot doesn't shower. His water's never been on. I know. Yeah. He doesn't care. I'd love to get into it get an update real quick and then kind of launch into maybe some more specific things about some of these Spirits by name that you've you've dealt with and help our listeners Kind of put some yeah So, you know, basically When I came out witchcraft Being in the occult you get attacked all the time, you know, that's normal Everything's very competitive. There's a lot of gossiping a lot of tearing each other down That's why everyone's doing protection spells all the time because everyone's coming after them um so yeah that that was like my normal life for years so when i came into christianity i felt like oh do you know what i can finally brief there's no nasties in christianity everyone's nice for a couple weeks yeah honestly i could not have been and it threw me off because you know when you think about Christ right when I was a witch I'd have Christians in my you know in my face in my comments and they'd be saying oh I pray that you find Jesus you know if you have any questions come and speak to me and I'm like oh they're nice once you do find Jesus you're not holy enough and it's a barrage like whoa I don't know where I don't know where the change happens where it goes from I'm praying for you to see the light to oh you've seen the light but you're not good enough why are you here but you don't see it you don't see it enough yeah i don't know what happens in that little bit between you know there and there but i always say if i was still a witch online now i'd have christians praying for me not trying to insult me and accuse me they'd be praying that i find jesus and trying to get me over to the side of jesus so when my concern at the moment is because obviously my my whole thing with my page was i wanted to bring people from the occult to Jesus then they come to Jesus and they get absolutely walloped with what I have recently discovered to be the Pharisee spirit so they get hit with the Pharisee spirit and they say whoa whoa no I'm going back to the occult where you know I can be myself without that okay so I had a lot of that coming into my inbox people were saying like yes I'm going to church and people are saying stuff because I'm wearing black clothes and I'm like uh you know and then I got it as soon as my page got a bit bigger i started getting the accusation of oh no she's not a real christian she's still a witch yeah okay all right okay let's uh let's have a little look at this then and it turned out to be because my hair was dark my clothes were dark and i came from the occult surely i can't be trusted right so that threw me because like i said i've been in the occult i've dealt with a lot of demons i've dealt with a lot of things spiritually i didn't know about the pharisees because i never read the bible i just Spanned Jesus and then I went and followed him So when I came up against my first Pharisee I was shocked I thought oh dear Oh dear this means God doesn't want me Stop talking about me You're not good enough to talk about me Be quiet And that threw me because I thought Well when I met Jesus Jesus was telling me and pushing me to expose witchcraft So why am I then coming up against someone who follows Jesus, who's been in church, who's been a Christian a lot longer than I have, who knows the Bible probably back to front, telling me, you're still a witch, you shouldn't be speaking online, go back to where you came from. So for me, I thought, well, they know Jesus more than I do. They must be right. That must be God speaking through them to tell me to be quiet and stop talking about him. But I know the Holy Spirit. I encountered the Holy Spirit first. so it didn't feel like him talking didn't feel like the holy spirit saying that to me and when i matched it back to the character of jesus that's not something jesus christ would say right so i sat there for a long time i started questioning myself i was looking at the way that i look there's i can't change my eye color i'm spanish i can change my hair color but it won't suit my eyebrows so i'd rather not um there's not much i can do i prefer wearing black because i gained a few pounds after having two kids in two years so i started thinking what is it about me that is giving off witch and i couldn't find anything i started asking bigger content creators am i coming across as a witch to you and they were like no you talk about jesus all the time i was like thank you i even went to a church and asked them can you look up my page and tell me if i'm giving you witch vibes and they were like no so i'm still left there confused because this pharisee Spirit was like, by charging me, you're a witch, you're a witch, you know, literally going on a campaign to tell other people I'm a witch, and relentlessly as well. So I was thinking, hold on a second, why am I being called a witch? And then it clicked. That's not the Holy Spirit. Because the Holy Spirit won't stalk me, harass me, tarnish me, get people against me, and try to send me away from him. It's not the Holy Spirit. And that's when I started looking to the Pharisees. I thought, right, who was Jesus? Who was Jesus' biggest op? Because I never read the Bible. Who was his biggest opposition? So I'm going through it and I'm looking at all the sinners. And no, it's not the sinners. He's not talking to the sinners. He's saying, yeah, sin is a sin, but he's not having a go at them. And then I read the part where he went and flipped the tables. And I thought, ah, I'm getting somewhere. Okay, who's the op? Pharisees. Who killed him? Pharisees. Who was stalking him? Pharisees. Who was insulting him? Pharisees. Who was trying to get him to trip up? Pharisees. So I started looking into the Pharisee spirit. Lo and behold, this one is a big one. But it's not spoken about a lot. It gets swept under the carpet because people are scared to challenge it. People with the Pharisee spirit. Do you think it's a more ancient spirit that inflicted them? Obviously, they weren't the first on the scene in the spiritual war. I mean, I know it's something that most Christians understand. It's interesting that you didn't like if you grew up in the church you kind of know the pharisees and you don't you don't associate yourself with them obviously because we're on the you know we're the good disciple we're the we're the one who doesn't cause any problems in church but there seems to be something more ancient going on i think in those at that time period but i don't know because there's some of these are these spirits like lilith and you know jezebel obviously were seem to be around a while. So I don't know. I don't know if you've thought about perhaps maybe an origin of that because it seems like there's a specific religious spirit attached to it too. Yeah, I see what you're saying. I mean, when it comes to Jezebel, for example, we know who Jezebel is in the Bible and one thing she wants to do, she wants to get into the churches, she wants to infiltrate the churches and she wants to separate the church, right? That's what she wants to do. The difference though with Jezebel is that she doesn't talk about jesus that's the yeah jezebel is a demon so therefore if she spoke about jesus and she was saying that he's you know lord that would counteract the fact that she's a demon right so she doesn't talk about jesus so she says things maybe like god or or lord but not not jesus so the difference with the pharisee spirit the pharisee spirit will say the name of jesus because it's convinced the person that is operating with it is convinced that because they read the Bible, that's enough. And it's very works-based. So they can say Jesus. So I wouldn't say it's necessarily a demon Pharisee. I think it's a spirit at work. And that's why the name of Jesus would be offensive to a Jezebel, the Jezebel spirit. Like it doesn't work. Yeah. There's no name that she would hate more, obviously, because she's a demon. Demons hate the name of Jesus. You can say everything, but you can't say the name of Jesus as a demon. And deliverance and exorcisms. That seems to be the, you know, obviously they don't. People say there's reactions when they say the name of Jesus. A lot of people need fiber in their diet. Not Bigfoot. Bigfoot's out there eating roots, trees. For the rest of us, you know, we need help staying regular. It actually plays a big role in energy, stability, recovery, focus. overall performance. All the things you need to do is stay in the blurry verse and stay looking down these rabbit holes. Yeah, have you ever seen Bigfoot dragon? 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And gut health is not dialed in your other, you know, Bigfoot training exercises, get out there and hike in the woods don't work as well. And other supplements don't absorb as well. So you need that strong foundation and to get the results you're looking for. It's delicious too. It's easy to add to a protein shake or to a smoothie. Just put a scoop in there and you can increase your gut health and your overall health with Momentus Fiber Plus. Right now, Momentus is offering our listeners up to 35% off your first order with promo code Blurry. Head to livemomentous.com. Use promo code Blurry for up to 35% off your first order. That's livemomentous.com, promo code Blurry. Yeah, I've seen it. When I was demonized, I had a Jezebel spirit and witchcraft. He spoke to me about Jesus. I started hearing white noise, like actual white noise. I'd have to get away from the person talking about it my mother-in-law she's she's a big christian she used to come around preaching while i was sitting there doing my spells i'd actually hear like radio signal you know so that that name not that i had a problem with jesus i didn't know jesus but i knew that if you started talking about jesus i would have a reaction to it so yeah demons take the name jesus that's why the pharisee slips through the cracks because if something has a reaction to jesus you're like oh yeah you know you're cussing me out because i'm talking about jesus fine the pharisees is clever because yeah you're talking about jesus but they don't they don't have a go at you for that oh you're talking about jesus but how long have you been in church who's your leader what doctrine are you in you know so it's a lot more around the side and it's very interrogating a lot of questions very judgmental and they don't actually care what you have to say they just want to interrogate you enough so that you stop talking about jesus so they can have the floor that's the whole point of the pharisee spirit they were jealous pharisees were jealous of jesus because he had a crowd people were starting to gather and listen to him yeah pharisees profited from religion that's why they had their stalls and jesus came and flipped the stalls and said hold on a second not in my father's house so if you're somebody that comes online and starts talking about jesus you just slip in as they say they don't like that so you know you come along you start talking about jesus and people start hearing you they need to destroy that because it's competition it's not about spreading the word of jesus potential competition because they want to sell yeah jesus it's like the online town square now you know and there's all these influencers that are christians and they're all trying to sell something um and instead of actually building a message they attack those who seem to have a message it's like your content should just like your message should be the driving force, right? And if it's a good one, it's a good one. If you're there to encourage, you're there to encourage. But some people's messages, like the Pharisees seem, our whole MO is to destroy those who have a message, you know? Yes. They didn't, you know, that was their thing. Like, let's discredit everything that doesn't, we can't control. It's gatekeeping. Yeah. Yeah. It's interesting that, like, what it does, and you look at Jesus and the Pharisees, What was happening there is he was disrupting the power structure, right? He was – and he also was coming as the Messiah that they didn't want him to come that way, right? We've talked about this on the show before. Like part of the reason that they hated Jesus was he was disrupting the power structure of the Pharisees and sort of the old ways. And then he also – they wanted a Messiah that was going to come and liberate them from Rome with a sword. They wanted a political Jesus, a political Messiah, and he didn't come that way. He came to bring the kingdom of heaven here, but not in the way that they had hoped, right? It was like, okay, not this way, though. A show of force. They wanted a show of force. Yeah, and I think in some ways, like this is the same. You're talking about, Jess, is that people have these conversions to Christ, and they are on fire, right? And we talked about this pre-roll and they want to, they want to go out and they want to share their story. They want to tell people about Jesus. They want to, they want to convert people. They want to go to reach the people in their community. If for you it was the occult, right? They want to, you want to go rescue these mostly women out of this darkness. And it disrupts the power structure because people who want to gatekeep say, no, not that way. Don't do it that way. You've got to follow our five-step program or you've got to do it this way or you've got to be, you've got to check all these boxes. And I think that what's crazy about the deception in that is that there are things that are very valid in what they're saying is like, yeah, you should be discipled, right? That's something you should want to do. But the way it's delivered is not like, it's like, well, if you don't do this, then it's not real. If you don't do this, then your ministry is nullified. If you don't join, if you don't recite or commit to the credos, fill in the blank, whatever it is that they want to qualify you with. It's bizarre when you say you look at the work of Jesus and he's just like, I was all would come unto me. Come as you are. I'm the one who's going to change you. He built a following with the exact opposite attitude. It's the opposite. it. It wasn't control, manipulation. It's the fruits of the spirit, kindness, love, peace, patience, all these things. And then people started following him and they're like, you're not allowed to have a crowd. You have to manipulate, control. That's how you get a crowd. And Jesus is the exact opposite. So obviously it's offensive. Well, I mean, he was also like, I mean, this is the thing people always want to forget too, is that he also called people out of their sin and said, now go and sin no more. He didn't sit with you and say, it's cool that you're sinning. This is a lot of where you get in some of these other other other spiritual stuff and some of these other veins of he doesn't say hey it's cool just come as you are stay that way he's no come as you are let me change you right and i i think it was very smart just that you wouldn't talk to people so you were like hey am i being myopic on this am i doing something that that that says that i'm still or appears that i'm still operating in witchcraft or i'm still a witch because that takes about a fair amount of humility i think a lot of this is is a very a huge lack of humility and the sad part of that this your story is it's not when we haven't heard. You know, it's the same people that anybody, anybody who has a bit of a platform who has a very public conversion, um, the first people in the water to tell them that they didn't do it the right way or they're, and it's not real, or this is an op or this is fake. Unfortunately, our Christians that, that for whatever reason, and it may be, as you say, maybe it is, it does feel very spiritual. And also the one thing I want to add to is I'll let you speak, but your story to me rings like one we've heard and and what and we've had a number of ex-witches on the show and what they say and not specifically the same way you say what they always say is that like there's this idea that when you give up witchcraft and you give your life to jesus that everything gets easy and you said this on your first episode and the realities is everything is exponentially harder the kingdom of darkness comes at you exponentially harder they don't want you to leave right and all you've been set free it's like the battle now begins and i and i know you're walking through this um i want to encourage you in that because you know the work you're doing is important don't delete your page don't don't let the darkness you know discourage you or you know we're walking through stuff and with blurry as well where we're just it feels like the onslaught is heightened like the the enemy is energized and i just want i just wanted to encourage you there But I want to just reiterate that, that like we should, as you say, look for the earmarks of Jesus. And also as someone who has been in witchcraft and communicated with the spirits, it's our first episode. If you haven't listened to Jess's story, check out the first one before you dive any farther into this one. But, you know, you know, when you say I know the Holy Spirit, because you've seen, listened, heard from all these spirits, right? Yeah. So I think this is an important message. I, man, it's also depressing in some ways. And it's hard because, you know, Jesus came to free the captives, right? Not to put you back into captivity. And I think sometimes the world wants to flip that. Yeah, I'd be lying if I said it didn't get me down. Like, you know, having people constantly insulting me, calling me names, you know, making accusations against me, people scared of me thinking I'm still a witch. Like, I wouldn't be human if I didn't say, I've cried over this. I sat up for nights crying thinking God I don want to do this anymore Like no matter what I do no matter how I show up it wrong Someone always you know pointing at oh you know she got trees behind her That a sign of witchcraft And I speak with my hands. I'm doing spells with my hands. And honestly, it is, it gets a lot. Like, it actually gets a lot. And I only show up for the people that are new to Jesus, I think. I mean, me personally, I'm done with social media. The minute God tells me to go, I'm off. See you later. You know, have fun, you lot. But no, it does. It beats you down. And like I say, people come out of the occult and they get attacked by the occult chronically for leaving. And then they come to Christianity and they get attacked there because they're not holy enough or they're not sanctified enough, especially if you're brave enough to go online and talk about leaving the occult. The attacks are 10 times you get it from witches that are seeing you talking about witchcraft. How dare you? Let's shut you up. Then you've got Christians. old you're talking about witchcraft you're still a witch let's shut you up you're in this horrible horrible middle ground where a few people with actual discernment are going you're going through hell you've come to jesus you're going through hell i know what you're going through you know and they actually support me yeah i'm so lucky i mean i'm so lucky with the the followers that i have they have literally carried me through it because i wouldn't have done it without them i would not i would go no i don't know what and it discourages other it discourages other people who've been there to come out and say, tell their story. And so I think that's the point. It is the point. And what you said earlier is interesting. I didn't think about that. Some of these spirits don't want to say the name of Jesus, hear Bible verses, any of that stuff. And then you see this story, obviously, in Christ's temptation where Satan's quoting scripture. So he has no problem using the language. And I didn't think about that. So the Pharisee spirit uses the language, uses the culture, uses all the terms. The devil knows the Bible more than we do. He does. He quoted the Bible. He quoted scripture to Jesus at the temptation. You know, you're listening to the Blurry Creatures podcast. The last thing you want is the black-eyed children showing up on your porch, Luke. But what you do want showing up on your front porch is a nice box of Good Ranchers meat that shows up ready to go. And it's not just any old meat. It's the premium. I mean, I've been a Good Ranchers subscriber for more than two years. I know the Spells started, Ben Spell, good friends. And what I really love is they're not just the mission, but the quality, right? 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It's like, remember we grew up in the 80s with those nuggets, mystery meat. You have no idea what's next. These are actually chunks of chicken. And so for our Blurry listeners, you can start your plan today, and you'll get free meat included with every order, plus $100 off your first three orders with our code BLURRY. Just go to goodranchers.com and use code BLURRY at checkout. that's free meat with every order and $100 off your first three orders when you start your subscription plan this month only or if you want to try it out you can get $40 off your first order with our code blurry instead good ranchers.com american meat delivered he knows how to use god's word and twist it you know even in the first time in in the garden of Did God really say that? You know, that's what you said. Did God really say that? And he comes through with a verse to shoot you down. So in my experience with the Pharisee spirit, they know the Bible probably back to front. They're probably in churches. You know, they come across very holy. Behind closed doors, they will use those same scriptures to rip you to pieces, to tell you that Jesus doesn't want you. You're going to hell. There's no hope in you. You know, in fact, be quiet. Stop talking. You're not holy enough to talk about Jesus. So if you actually look in the Bible, Jesus came up against the Pharisees almost 20 times in the Bible. 20 times he called out the Pharisees, 20 times. It's huge. Considering throughout the Bible, he did not so much as raise his voice to a sinner. He sat with them. He ate with them. And he said, as you say, go and sin no more. When somebody was dragged to the front and they said, she's been she's been doing adultery, stoned her to death. Jesus said, no. Which one of you hasn't sinned? Put your hand up. So that's the difference. A Pharisee, the minute you've done something that is, I don't know, not holy or you're not wearing something holy, they'll drag you to the front and blast you. The modern day Pharisee is internet. Hey, everyone, I found this person who says they're a Christian. They're not a Christian. Come in agreement with me and rip them to pieces. Yeah. Because they know what the internet's like. You know, don't think they're silly. They don't think that everyone's going to pray for you. They know that you're going to get hate. They know that you're going to get nastiness. So when I now see Christians ripping each other apart online, I know the spirit working through that because the Holy Spirit did not tell them to do that. You know what I'm saying? What do you do when you have the discernment go off of just like you just don't want to associate? Because I think sometimes it's just you just go your direction. They go their direction. And just choosing a different path is offensive to some of these people. Like, no, we didn't get to co-opt your page. We didn't get to control your audience. but you can control your world. So now, because you just went left, you don't say anything. If you're just like, oh, this person seems a little bit, I don't know, I'm just going to go over here and you don't engage with this woman or this ex-person on Instagram like we've seen, then they're like, I can't control herself now. Smear campaign. That seems spiritual to me. Yeah, yeah. They can't control you. They'll control how others see you. Yeah. Right? So that's something I'm noticing in the Christian world as well, is that everyone must look at you as if you are holy and fantastic. And if somebody might threaten that, if somebody comes along with a message to say, hang on, why are you charging people to join Bible classes? Yeah. Why are you selling the gospel? The gospel is free. They're going to do everything possible to shut that person up because that's what they've now made money from. The gospel is free. It's always free. every single person who creates something every author on our podcast sells a book about these concepts they spend hours and hours supporting them helps them create more content that's ridiculous that seems pretty elementary those arguments it seems more sophisticated when they they have this almost like this whole doctrine of demons they know So they've got a whole libraries of information on how to, I mean, the Pharisees had more than just a couple of quips and arguments. They knew the entire system. They threw the book at Jesus. So where does the human being end and the spirit sort of over them begin, you think? because obviously in Jesus's story the week before, he's being palm branches and Hosanna and he's here, he's riding in on the donkey. And then a couple of days later, it's like, they don't forgive them, father. They don't know what they're doing. Like their whole attitude, like how does that happen? Like that definitely is like a spirit came over and then in one voice, they all went from loving to hating. and it wasn't like over years there wasn't a smear kid it was like instantly so i yeah yeah we can always we can see that in the scriptures of like we can be manipulated very simply like as christians we can be manipulated we all think no i've got i got holy spirit i'm good i don't nothing can handle like come at me what do you think about that sorry it's a long question but well from what i know about the enemy and obviously from being in witchcraft the enemy's gateway to people is fear so i think the pharisaical spirit is coming from people who genuinely do want to find god they genuinely do want to get to heaven but that spirit of fear creeps in and tells them you're not doing enough for god get out there and instead of actually going to encourage people find people that make you feel like a better christian so the fear of going to hell starts to feel smaller so rather than looking at themselves and dealing with their own sins you A lot of Pharisees have a lot of skeletons in the closet. That's the reason that Jesus called them hypocrites, because they say one thing and they do another. They talk about gossip being a problem, and then they go and spread mass gossip and things like that. So they are very hypocritical. One thing they're looking for is somebody that could be perceived as worse than them, and they'll go for anything, your clothing, the way you speak. Ah, yes, you're not a real Christian. Let me present myself as a real Christian by shaming you, so the attention and the spotlight goes on you, and I can just slip away over here. Yeah, you have an eye in your logo. Yeah. That's the base attack we get. You have an eye in your logo. You guys are Masonic. It's like, okay. It's just, yeah, it starts there and then it gets into high-level attack. I mean, obviously, that's just bottom feeder arguments. How would you say to identify this spirit and the way it operates if people are feeling like... I've been judgmental. Yeah, exactly. Because people who are self-aware, those that aren't, will always self-righteously self-condone the things they do, right? They won't see it. It's like those that have eyes, those that have ears, right? But if people are self-aware enough to be like, man, I'm seeing this thing rise out somewhere else or even in my own life. I think at that point, though, you're going to figure it out, right? I don't know. People don't. sometimes it feels like when you get that phone bill it's like the crash site document you can't read it there's a bunch of numbers random fees vague language stuff's blacked out you're like what am i actually paying for i don't know about you but i like keeping my money where i can see it i like to be simple i like to be easy i'm gonna be throwing away money on big wireless carriers you too can say goodbye to overpaying for wireless get a simple bill and that's where mint mobile comes in so stop overpaying for wireless just because that's how it's always been. 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New customer offer for first three months only, then full price plan options available. Taxes and fees extra. See Mint Mobile for details. You'd be surprised, honestly. and I have so much respect for people that can look at themselves and go, do you know what? I've got a problem. I've got to sort this out. That is a humble heart. That is the definition of humility, which is the fruit of the spirit, right? God tells us he rejects the proud. Now, why does he reject the proud? Because people that are operating in self-righteousness and pride of themselves, they don't care about hearing God because they believe they are God. So in order for them to acknowledge the fact that they've got a Leviathan spirit or a pharisaical spirit, they have to be able to humble themselves a second and go, hold on, God, can you show me, have I got this spirit? Can you reveal to me, have I got this spirit? You know, they'll actually sit and they'll say, yeah, do you know what? I treated that person unfairly. I did gossip about them. I did slander them. I did tarnish their name. I apologize. God, I repent. But a proud pharisaical spirit will find every possible justification for this and they'll bypass that. They'll bypass that. So if you are somebody sitting there watching this right now and you think oh i think i've got this do not fear that is why we have jesus okay you literally go to jesus and say jesus i don't want this take this spirit away from me highlight to me why i have this spirit and i repair the parts of me that i've let this spirit in that is all you need to do you go to jesus with it that is all you need is just an understanding and awareness that is there now if somebody doesn't have that awareness like you just said um they will go and go and go and they will continue to justify their behavior. They will stalk people, harass people. They'll try to get information on a person to tear them down. They'll use Bible verses like have nothing to do with evil, expose it, things like that to continue doing what they're doing. So it won't be a humble self-retrospection. It will be, no, let's find justification. why do you think specifically it happens once you convert like why why does the spirit kind of leave leave you alone and obviously it's usually people that don't have a backstory of christianity like you didn't know anything about the pharisees and then yeah it's like then it comes out of nowhere it's like the holy spirit enters you and then that is sends up a flare and then everything attracts to that right yeah yeah you're spot on you know you're right it does send up a flare you all of a sudden you've got a big target on your head oh you don't know much about christianity then you're easy to manipulate you don't know much about the bible well then you're going to be easy to and i think that's what a lot of people thought with me i was fresh fresh meat on the scene you know oh she doesn't know christianity we can twist this up yeah i knew the bible a bit more than they thought because as soon as i learned jesus i wanted to learn his word you know so i knew what they were doing i just couldn't pinpoint what spirit was at work there because hold on a second you know you're saying jesus and you go to church but that's not the holy spirit so what is that so if somebody is new to anything they're easier to control and manipulate and it's the same with like you know why you see a lot of old older older older older men go for young women they don't know enough so it's easy to go to them and train them up same thing you So it's an indoctrination when somebody comes along and they fearfully speak the truth, like fearlessly, sorry, speak the truth. They become dangerous because you can't be indoctrinated. You can't be paid off. You can't be silenced. They're like, well, now what can we do? Let's smear your name. You see it in churches. You see it online. You see it in families. So anybody with that kind of, you know, they walk in the spirit. You don't fear anyone but God when you walk in the spirit. You know, you don't fear them. You know, that's the truth. but they will do everything possible to make you scared and they'll silence you and shut you up and one thing that the reason i'm bringing this up and why it's so important i'm past caring okay i got past the sad part i'm now past that i'm now at a point where there is a witch online right now she's on youtube i won't say her name i won't draw any attention to her somebody sent me her video and it was a video saying x witches x new waves new ages are grifters but they sent me this video expecting me to be furious right so I sat and listened to what she had to say and she was pretty much spot on and everything I could not dispute a thing this witch said as much as I wanted to I couldn't and one of the points she said there is you're going to pray for me now but when I get onto your side you are going to attack me you're going to tell me that my piercings are demonic my hair is a certain way and she was absolutely spot on even I was thinking you know when somebody comes out and they've still got tattoos the first thing they go for your tattoos demonic you know so the image is there she was so right on that and then another thing she said was you're all fighting each other in christianity you're all gossiping about each other in christianity you're all posting each other you know and i'm fighting online how is that any different to the occult you're telling me to join christianity you're not even behaving any differently to us and I sat there and I was like yeah you just hit the nail on the head yeah it's an old sailor term salty you know you get a little you salty dog yeah I mean and that means you're like hardened and tough and I think that I think when Jesus encountered the spirit he had that he was salty to him he was like nah you can't like he could be patient and kind with the people that It's like he could sense that they hadn't been inhabited by a spirit or maybe yet. I think there's a lot of neutral characters out there in the gospels. And Jesus seems to say, if you have ears to hear, to me is you're a neutral individual. You're willing to listen to what I have to say. And then he runs up to get, he gets a little angry and frustrated. And what Christians do say, you're not allowed to be salty. You're not allowed to defend the, you're not allowed to have any attitude when you come up against this religious spirit. I was like no that in my life if I run up against that religious spirit I get I get I'm like I know what I'm running up against here now I'm a pretty agreeable person pretty pretty empathetic person but when I run up against that spirit I'm like stop yeah there's a reason that you feel that though and I looked into this because when it comes to other thinners I don't feel the same way I don't feel like I'm going to get out of character with an alcoholic or a witch yeah when it comes to a Pharisee, I feel like I'm going to get out of character. But so did Jesus in the Bible, right? Like we said, Jesus flipped tables. He got a whip out and started, you know, when we look at Jesus, we think, oh, that's not like... He called him a brood of vipers. A brood of vipers. Yeah, you guys are snakes. I mean, he's not like... And did he know it was as well? Snakes, snakes. He never tried to deliver anyone of the religious spirit. Yeah. Ever. He delivered people from Legion, which was, I think, 3,000 or 6,000 spirits in one person. He delivered a woman of a divination spirit. He delivered demons throughout the Bible. When it came to the Pharisees and the Pharisee spirit, he didn't even attempt to deliver that spirit. Not that he couldn't, but they weren't humble enough to be delivered. So he spun on his heel, he walked away, or he tipped those tables. So his whole approach to Pharisees was so different to every other sinner in the Bible, which is what I've seen. That's not saying it's a bigger sin. But it looks to me like it's the one sin in the Bible that he really hurt him. You can see it hurt Jesus. You're using my father's house. You're using my father's words. You know, you're representing my father. And at the same time, you are driving people away from me. You are stepping over the poor. You're insulting people. You're condemning people to hell. You're taking money from them for, you know, that. That is so poignant, I think, in the whole thing. The only time we see Jesus get angry, like righteously angry, is with the Pharisees. And they are the ones who killed him. Do you believe there's a difference between sins of the spirit and sins of the flesh? Oh, yeah, sort of. So, you know, I literally just released a book, a free one, and it was about the three enemies that we have. So we have three enemies. We have the devil, we have ourselves, and we have the world. and if you don't know the different ways in which it can come against you you can start fighting it in the wrong way right so the devil's tactics with us he wants to beat our spirit down he wants to get us involved in self-hatred he wants us to detach from god you know sins of the spirit as you speak about would be blaspheme with the holy spirit i don't need the holy spirit you know i'm good on my own things like that um sins of the flesh would be you know sex and alcohol things that actually appeal the flesh that's a worldly thing yeah the world comes in with that temptation because it's a society thing that's just the way it is now you can't go on instagram without seeing someone's bum yeah so it's just there you know that's the world and then when it comes to ourselves as our own enemy yeah that's when we're growing up through childhood we have an inner critic we have a voice inside us the trauma that we've been through things that set us away from god through self destruction. Okay, so the self is going to want to destroy things. The self is going to be selfish, the world's going to come through with its temptations, and the enemy is going to spiritually attack you with spirits of fear, you know, spirits of death, things like that. So if you know your three enemies, you know what you're fighting against. But you get the three mixed up sometimes. Sometimes you start rebuking a temptation for alcohol, but that's just your fleshly desire. Does that make sense? Yeah, it makes a lot of sense. I mean, I think God can use, you know, he uses all kinds of broken people that have fleshly, deal with fleshly sins, but they'll still listen to God. I don't think the Pharisees would listen. Like, they're like, oh, yeah, maybe I need to listen to this, the God of heaven, you know. Even though they're drinking and they're, you know, they're lusting after, they're normal people that have problems. And I think that's the hardest part is that you see these people who come to Christ and they're still a fleshly person. They're still like get upset or they like to smoke or they like to just, you know, whatever. Like I still coming out of this realm and I haven learned all the spiritual like performance things I have to do on a Sunday morning carry my Bible around and have a suit and tie on Like I haven learned any of that yet I just don think God uses those types of people He uses the old salty guys in the Old Testament. Just this guy, listen to me. I'm going to use him. If you listen, then I can use you. If you don't want to listen, I don't know. Luke and I grew up in the church, so we have a different perspective. We're more jaded of those types of people, and you just kind of become, I don't know, cynic and critical. You get frustrated with those types of people. And then you're always excited when someone has a conversion and you see that joy of their salvation. Most of us don't know what joy of salvation looks like anymore. No, and that's one thing the Pharisee is void of is joy. You'll notice that there is no joy of the Lord inside of the Pharisee unless they're telling somebody they're going to hell. That's the only time you really see them get happy. And the last time we saw the Pharisee in full motion, I think, was during the witch trials. And they killed thousands upon thousands of innocent women, children, and a few men, you know, and they used the Bible verse, thou shalt not suffer a witch to live. But would Jesus go around killing loads of women? No. In the New Testament, when he was talking about that, witches then were full on operating demons at the time, sacrificing children. You can see why God done a wipeout. but to kill thousands of innocent women and children and like you say the tests nobody could pass those tests anyway same as the pharisee when he was with jesus jesus was never going to pass their tests because he's not in the same doctrine that they're teaching so he was set up to fail people in the witch trials were set up to fail oh let's uh let's hold you underwater for 30 minutes if you survive you're a witch if you die sorry you were a human so it's already unfair there's already traps set for you when it comes to the Pharisee spirit all they really want is to say I'm right I have found a wolf in sheep's clothing so I looked into the wolf in sheep's clothing thing and this was interesting because one thing I've noticed about the Pharisee spirit they will point fingers on others very accusatory so when I looked into the wolf in sheep's clothing what do wolves do if they're amongst sheep they're hiding because they want to attack on right so if you're looking for a wolf hiding amongst sheep the wolf isn't going to go oh hi it's me he's going to go it's that guy not me because he still wants to be in hiding now wolves as it says you know will rip apart sheep and the bible talks about as well if you are going to devour one another be careful you don't get taken out with one another you know it literally talks about this wolf in sheep's clothing the whole point of a wolf is to attack that's the thing there if it was if it was something in disguise, for example, they wouldn't use wolf in sheep's clothing. Wolf and sheep, sheep is a wolf's food. So what it means is something hiding in there to attack the sheep. So I have a thought here, and this could be a little bit out of the box, but if Satan is commanding all these spirits, wouldn't he send his lesser spirits out to mess with people in the New Age or people in the world and then devote all of his time and energy to converts, to Christians. Because there's oftentimes, it's like, get behind me, Satan. So Satan's spending all of his time. The spirit, it seems like it's Satan's spirit that's controlling the church, quote, the church. And he's sending all these other lesser things out. You go distract that group of people because they're not actually getting- When you say controlling, you mean like infiltrating? Not controlling, right? I think the church is not controlled by the spirit of Satan. No, like he's devoting all of his time to try to put the propaganda on the church and – Or divide it. Divide the church. He's spending all his time there. It's like, okay, you have multiple problems going on, but Satan's not like out in the New Age as much as he's probably hanging around the church. If he's going to be anywhere to try and destroy people – That's the enemy. Yeah. That's the enemy of the church. Because it seems like when you became from witchcraft to Christianity, you're encountering two different things. You know what I'm saying? Like almost spirits that are afraid of God are hanging out in the New Age. And then when you get closer, it's like these spirits are not afraid of God. They seem to be – I don't know. I'm having a hard time explaining it. I just think if I'm a general, I'm hanging out where the biggest problem is. And I'm sending out the infantry and the army to go deal with lesser problems. That's kind of what I think you're describing. Yeah, I mean, the enemy is not going to attack the people that are in his team. He's not going to go after anybody that is doing his dirty work for him. When I was in the New Age, I wasn't attacked by the devil. I was attacked by witchcraft because I was sending it out. It's going to come back to me, you know? So those demons had a right to torment me. I was on their team. But when it comes to people that are in Christianity, if you're covered by the blood of Jesus, these demons won't touch you. But the best people to target would be the newcomers, the ones that are confused, the ones that don't know their authority in Jesus. They don't know the Holy Spirit too much yet. You know, they don't know the word of the Bible yet. So the best ones to go after would be them. And if I was the devil, that's where you'd go. Yeah. You know, so the whole issue right now is, yes, everybody wants to desperately follow Jesus. And I'm seeing it even the occult. People have questions. And then they get that one person that says, oh, but, you know, your hair is still colored. You can't have colored hair. You know, you look like a witch still, and it hurts them. It's offensive. It's bullying. And we're not talking offensive by the Bible. And I hear this one a lot. You know, if you don't let me bully you, you're prideful. If you don't take my insult of you and agree or my false accusation of you, you're prideful. So it's saying, let me bully you, or as Satan would say, let me bully you, or I'm going to shame you. I'm going to pull you up as a Christian that won't take correction. Very, very clever. very manipulative and the enemy doesn't come as we say with horns and a pitchfork he comes as the angel of light he masquerades as the angel of light and while he's been in the new age doing that for years have you noticed that people suddenly there is an influx of people coming towards christianity so his target has shifted almost oh okay everyone's going this way everyone's looking at jesus this is where christ consciousness is coming into it you know people are saying oh he's not God. Jesus isn't God. He's a consciousness. And the enemy is so clever about that because then what he's saying is, oh yeah, no, Jesus is real. Calm down. But he's just another entity. He's just another consciousness. He's not God. That's what the enemy. So, and it's the same as you come towards Christianity. Oh no, you haven't found Jesus. That must be a wrong Jesus because you're not holy enough. You're not sanctified enough. So it's that twisting. And the one way we know God is not God of confusion. Yeah. He's a God of order. He's a God of peace. So if you start feeling like, oh, okay, I didn't like what that person said, not being offended by the Bible if they are insulting the way you look, if they are insulting the way you dress, if they are insulting your lifestyle, having children out of wedlock. We get that one all the time, you know, things like that. That is insulting. That is bullying, hiding behind the word of God. Yeah. Okay? And if you dare try and speak back, you're likely to get ostracized, you know, smear campaigned, as you say. And then people then run back to where they came from, whether it be addiction, whether it be the occult, because, okay, Jesus clearly doesn't want me. He's using all these people to tell me he doesn't want me. I'm going. It's a huge problem. Massive. It's interesting. It's like the bloodline of Christ comes out of lots of, you know, out of wedlock. And, you know, there's a, it's like, you know, he didn't, there's not this perfect, you know, historical, everyone's a perfect Christian. And that's how Jesus comes into existence. there's a lot of... Because he redeems it. He redeems and renews and calls people out of that new creation. I think my question, Jess, for this is, how do you discern? Because I think this is also something that's been used a lot. And I think what's coming to my mind here is that there are obviously bad actors out there that are operating in Christianity that need to be called out. This is something that when you look at what Mike Winger is doing, for example, with some of these these uh these folks in in these in these charismatic movements that are definitely like um bad actors right those people need to be called out but how do you discern because what you're talking about is people are looking at your past the way you look and they're making assumptions based upon upon that upon your salvation or or your your faith right which is that's all we know that's all ridiculous right but you know how do we how do we discern you know in your mind we discern this spirit number one and how how do we then discern if if people are operating with that spirit or operating in in bad faith um because there's so much fake internet stuff people have got you know silver silver tongues and um there's a lot of bad stuff out there and and but i think what you people get self-righteous and they want to make everything that they think is bad, bad. And discernment is, I mean, we talked in the last episode, discernment's crazy because people will use that as their personal thing. Like, oh, I'm discerning this, right? And it's usually an emotional response, a fear response. And it's not, as someone who's communed with actual spirits in your past, we try to say on the show, I've tried to say on the show a number of times, Nate, that like your emotions are not equal to discernment. Now, your emotions can play into discernment, But these things are not, if you're looking at math, these are not equal. Your fear is not equal to discernment either. In fact, people were afraid in the Bible of angels that were coming to deliver them great messages, right? So that can't be bad discernment, right? Well, sometimes Jesus just rolls on. He just moves out. He doesn't stand up and announce an attack on people. I think that it seems like people don't have a humble response if their discernment is going off. They usually turn into an attacker. They're not like, hey, I think this party's turning pretty bad. It's Pleasure Island. Everyone's turning into donkeys. And I'm going to go. I'm going to leave, you know. No, they become violent, you know. Yes. Yeah. And, you know, sometimes your discernment is actually you're just jealous of somebody. Yeah, I do. Sometimes you discern them. Yeah. Yeah, it's so true. Sometimes you don't like them because they're built better than you physically. Sometimes you don't like them because you think they're leading the calling God should have for you. You know, sometimes personalities just clash. It's not always discernment. And you're so right there. They do say my discernment is saying that, you know, this person is not a real Christian. And then again, this is where the kind of group thing works. People, us as believers, we look to each other for help. We come together. We look for each other. You know, can you help me with this? There's a reason Jesus left us the Holy Spirit, not just the Bible. because even the devil knows the Bible. But if we have the Holy Spirit, then we can discern it. Anything that is not of God will grieve the spirit. Right? That's what I've learned. Not my emotions. It will grieve my spirit. It will actually grieve my spirit. So the way to discern if somebody has a Pharisee spirit, there is one thing that God told us to do, that Jesus told us to do above all commandments. Love thy neighbor. Love is the baseline of everything. Even if you're going to tell somebody they're sinning With love Even if you're going to tell somebody they're going to hell With love The message there, the underneath Is always love But when it comes to Pharisees There is no love there It turns to condemnation So rather than conviction Like the Holy Spirit convicts us The Pharisee spirit will condemn A person And say you know Actually I'm going to tell the whole world I think you're a witch and I want them all to agree with me so that you end up with nobody. How could that be the Holy Spirit? Because that's not conviction. That's condemnation. Also, I think in Matthew 18, and please correct me if I'm wrong, it says, if a brother or sister sins, you go to them directly. Most people aren't going to someone directly. They're going straight to putting them on blast. Which is self-gratifying, right? Because they feel like, look at me. Yeah, look at me. Look what I did. I'm calling out a wolf in sheep clothing. I'm calling out an apostate. I'm calling out a – it's exhausting in this internet culture, though. It is, yeah. Yeah, it is exhausting. And, you know, me, myself, I called somebody out a couple of months ago. Not the person so much, but it was a pastor that was teaching Christians how to read tarot cards. Oh, boy. So I wasn't calling out the person. I didn't care what he looked like. I didn't care what he spoke like. It was the teaching. So the Bible tells us to expose false teaching, right? That's fact. and it should be because nobody should be getting led astray right so there's a big difference between saying hey dude you can't be teaching tarot cards the bible speaks against divination that's false teaching to hey my discernment tells me you're still a witch because you have black hair and plaits everybody unfollow and get away from her she's going to lead you to hell do you see what i'm saying yeah yeah completely so it's like they make accusations based on absolutely nothing like there's no actual baseline there but when you expose false teaching for example you always go back to the bible you always go back to the word okay what does god say about this also what's the fruit of the spirit the enemy's coming right at me now i rebuke it it's the spirit of allergies you know it comes after all the history in the name of jesus so um yeah the fruit of the spirit as well always test the spirit the bible tells you test the spirit. Now, one thing people would say about me, and I'm only going to use me as an example. She can't be a witch because she looks like this. And I say, well, I declare that Jesus Christ is my Lord and Savior with my mouth. In the Bible, it says if I declare that and I stand on that, he rose from the dead for me, he died for my sins, then I am of the Holy Spirit. It actually says that in the Bible. But then they say, oh, no, but You're not dressed correctly. So do you see the difference there? The word will say, this is how you discern my people in the way that you show love for each other. In the way that you know my disciples by the way that they love each other. So when it comes to a Pharisee spirit, it's not about love. It's not about understanding. It's not about correction. As you say, I need to tear you down because I found Jesus and you're not good enough for that. I need to be his favorite and I need to get into heaven. It's based on fear. All fear. Yeah. and being the coolest kid at the party. I think what Luke and I have run into in our life a lot is just friends who, especially in the music world, coming out of the Christian music industry or being around it, close to it, people bump up against this war and they go, I don't want anything to do with this. It's kind of like living in a city. It's like when you get in the city, you're closer to the spiritual war, right? Jesus goes into town. Jesus goes, and this is where all these conflicts happen. And then he goes out to the nation. He's walking up a mountain, and he's got a different audience of like, okay, people want to be here because they hiked up a mountain to hear me talk. But I'm in town, and now I'm in the square, and now I'm with the other side. And this is where the war is going on. And what a lot of Christians do is they go into town, and they feel that, and then they give up. I would rather go live out in the country and not deal with any of this. So I think a lot of Christians remove themselves. And I think that's why this conversation is important because I think what you're highlighting is if you go into the town square, it's going to be a war. You're going to see both this going back and forth. Don't be disheartened by the war. Know what's going on. I think a lot of Christians deal with the two-faced or they get chewed up and spit out by the church because no one told them, oh, this is going to happen when you go to church. If you convert, and I think maybe a big part of me, your ministry could be is helping people understand like when you get into this, there's this whole other wave of Christians who are going to attack you. Don't give up. Don't be disheartened by that. Because I think it's easy for me. I'll just move out to the country, get five acres, have some chickens and never deal with anybody ever again. That's a real temptation for us because instead of trying to stay in the fight, trying to do something. Well I think If people don't believe in Pharisees Say you're watching this and you're thinking I'm not sure maybe these are people That don't like accountability I'm going to run you through something Chris Watts was a Christian He went to church every Sunday He was loved by his whole community And then ended up taking out his wife Pregnant wife and his children From having an affair There are people out there That claim to be Christian They know the Bible They get up and they preach and then they go home and they do horrors. Now, if somebody has the Holy Spirit, that's not in the ability of the Holy Spirit to do. We know that. Now, what we do have the ability to do is sin because we are human. We are flesh. God even says if you could have obeyed the law, you wouldn't need Jesus. Right. That's why we have Jesus, because we've already proven we cannot obey the law. Right. So when we come up against the Pharisee, their go to is always the law. Which, yes, the law stands, but there is a reason we have Jesus. Jesus came to say, you are all sinners and I'm going to die for you because I love you. All I need you to do is understand that I am God and you need me. Declare that with your mouth and then follow me. That's what Jesus says. Pharisees, no. And they do hide what goes on behind the scenes and they try to shine the spotlight on other people. And my fear is this is pushing away more people than anything else right now. It is the false doctrine of Christianity that is be perfect or be gone or be slandered, which is even worse. Yeah, that's why I was at that sins of the flesh question, because it feels like it's easy for us to point a finger if we know you did something fleshly. But you can't really identify jealousy in someone. You can't really identify pride in somebody. I mean, you can see little indicators in the way they like move their eyes or smirk. And, you know what I mean? You can kind of go, what was that? But you can easily say, oh, you're committing it. You committed adultery. You did a naughty thing. And like, obviously, David, you know, the biggest adulteress in the old test. Adulterer. Adulterer. Adulterer. Yeah. He was a man, baby. I don't know. he you know he uh that's a man baby you had to throw in a awesome powers he was he was british yeah he was yeah yeah but but you know i'm saying his heart um and he always say dumb stuff on this on the podcast after a long time you're not you're not gonna not but he you know his heart was there yeah um and i just think there's a there's a it's easy for christians to point a finger at a fleshly we can we can identify it easier yeah yeah of course you can and i'll be the first person to say i am still very much a sinner okay i'm trying i've got a mouth like a potty so i'm still you know i'm in my sanctification process i'm nowhere near the person i was but you know walking with jesus he already knows you're gonna fall down you're gonna a backslide. That's why I'm here. That's why his grace is sufficient. So my message for everybody watching this is please don't get disheartened. And I know how hard it is when you just want to find other believers. I was so excited to come online and meet ex new agers and ex witches and you know new Christians and to be met with the insults, the accusations, the nastiness, the public blasting I was genuinely heartbroken like you know I finally escaped the occult now I'm going to be safe because everybody here's got the Holy Spirit no no and I need to warn you all about this I don't know where my page is going to go personally this isn't about me I don't even know if I'm going to continue it much longer I'll be honest with you I feel like my work is kind of dumb but if you're out here and you're thinking about putting your testimony online please put your testimony online. There is nothing to say that what qualifies you to talk about Jesus. I've read the Bible. I've gone through it. There is nothing that says to talk about Jesus. You have to be this, this and this. No, it says to preach the Bible. Yeah, you need things, but you're not preaching the Bible. You're talking about your testimony of Jesus Christ. And we need to get that out there. The devil's tactic right now is so clever because the more people start talking about Jesus, people who aren't Christian are seeing the way Christians are behaving and thinking, you're all hypocrites. You're all gossiping like the rest of us. You're all drinking like the rest of us. You know, you're attacking each other like the rest of us. Why am I going to join whatever you're joining? The fruit of the Spirit isn't being represented correctly online. Jesus isn't being represented correctly. And it's so smart. You know, like I said with Ezekiel on his podcast the other day, it's left versus right. It's this versus that. it's Erica versus Candice I think it's another one, everything is versus versus, fight, fight, fight to a point we're all looking problematic Christian talk, Christian Instagram is looking problematic while everyone else is just sitting there going, and they want us to join them, this is what it's like to be a Christian, nah you're okay devil's being clever, we mustn't fall into this trap speak with the Holy Spirit and I speak with no you know I don have a lot of the knowledge that other people have i speak with no pride or self when i say this because i made mistakes i've gossiped you know up until last week i caught myself gossiping so you're gonna you're gonna slip the issue arises though when we see no wrong in what we're doing when we don't keep bringing it back to jesus that's the problem that's when our hearts start to harden all right so when somebody comes up to you and judges you remember what jesus said or god which were the one it was of the trinity judge not lest you be judged okay yeah end the story we are we are not ones to throw stones but they will twist stuff they will twist and say oh no i can talk about this and that no we can expose false teaching we can talk in truth and in love but we don't condemn we do not judge and we definitely don't go out of our way to bully and hurt people so really stand on knowing that's not the holy spirit you know the holy spirit you know what he is and he is peace love kindness long-suffering you know selfless you know the fruit you will know them by their fruit that's why it says it be very very mindful yeah and i also think for everybody out there don't get paranoid okay paranoia is driving a lot of this oh this person could be a wolf that person's leading us to hell this person can't be a real christian there's so much paranoia working in christianity that nobody has a chance nobody even has a chance oh hi i'm i'm an ex witch oh no no you're still a real one go away go away you know it's paranoia and fear so again don't be ruled by fear god didn't give you a spirit of fear don't be ruled by paranoia don't send someone away before they've even got a chance to show their fruit yeah it's not your job to to to be judge and jury either you know like like god takes the event if you think something's going on like it's not your job to police the internet and i think a lot of christians do that i mean even in their churches like don't believe god's going to deal with the situation because i mean it's interesting if you think about like judgment courts and stuff it's like a premeditated murder is a more heinous crime than one out of passion, one that you didn't plan, right? And I think a lot of the pharisaical spirit is premeditated. They know what they're doing versus there's other humans out there that are kind of like, you know, cute girl walks by and they didn't plan to get themselves into a situation or, you know, they're hungry and they steal something. They didn't go out to do that. You know, I think there's a lot of premeditated evil that happens with that spirit specifically. Well, let me tell you about the provoking spirit, okay? So the provoking spirit is probably one of the enemy's favorites, right? So basically what this spirit will do, and this can be in all of us. I've had a provoking spirit. You know, we've all at some point probably provoked somebody to react, even when we were kids. this spirit will poke and prod you to get you out of character to make you look a certain way so they can document it, they can point fingers and say, see, see, that's the person I'm talking about, while they just very quietly sit in the corner and this is why God says to us be slow to speak, quick to listen, okay, so the provoking spirit, the whole goal of that is to get you out of character, because we have anger, we have rage, we have upset and we can act out of emotion like you just said right premeditated they premeditate the provoking they premeditate what they're going to do to attack you and it is quite long-winded as well when they premeditate it but when we react out of emotion they can pin you in the same way they can say oh that's not very christian of you you know how many times have you seen that one that's not very christian you told me to sod off you blocked me they love that one you blocked me if not christian so be warned about the provoking spirit because you will see it is relentless they don't stop until they get a rise and a reaction so if you're feeling that anger if you're feeling provoked hold be slow to speak and i think that's why god says it there's a lot of that going on there's a lot of poking poking poking let me see if i can get you to respond to me let me see if i can get a rise out of you so i can point fingers and say oh you're not what you say you are the spirit of accusation as you can see is everywhere and the spirit of accusation works to create chaos it works to divide people create paranoia and to basically drive people into pits of despair if you bully somebody and you hurt somebody and you ostracize them particularly online you're more than likely trying to drive people into sin and that's something else pharisees do they drag everybody into the spirit of gossip and slander oh this person's not real not real do you agree oh yeah there's something weird about them ah gotcha so all of a sudden it's no longer someone's personal issue or personal discernment which is why god says go to the person it becomes a group attack slander and gossip well done got you both on that sin tick tick yeah see what i'm saying oh i i i'm tracking you know and just as a kid i remember being in church and thinking about these things and and jesus has judas as a part of his tribe he knows but there's something different about judas than there is a pharisee right i think judas was tempted in the worst way a human could be and obviously he didn't make the right decision and he's pinned as the the betrayer forever in in every story but he goes back and throws the money at him and says i blew it you know and i think there was still a human element he hasn't he didn't fully give himself over completely he was obviously tempted, taken over, and then he killed himself. I don't think the Pharisees went off and killed themselves after they crucified Jesus. They were like, we did it. We finally got rid of him. And Judas was actually heartbroken, which I think is at least some redeeming part of that story. At least he knew. Yeah, well, again, tale as old as time. We're going back to the point of pointing fingers at the wrong enemy. And I was just talking the other day about a scene in the Hunger Games where I don't know if you've seen the second one, Catching Fire, Katniss is pointing the bow at Finnick who she thinks is going to come and kill her and Finnick says, well she's literally got the arrow like that remember who the real enemy is and then it cuts to Snow who is the leader of the Hunger Games at the time and he says, let it fly Katniss basically hit Finnick and finish the whole game, make her look like the bad guy, like she's going to kill her friend he says in that one thing remember who the real enemy is and she tilts her arrow up, shoots up, electrocutes the whole, you know, stadium or whatever it is, goes for the real enemy. So again, like you just said, Judas is pinned as an enemy. You know, everyone within the Bible, all the sinners, they're the enemies. Now, the ones that keep going under the radar over and over again are these Pharisee spirits, these judgmental spirits, because they're so busy pointing arrows at everybody else and then getting us to point arrows at them thinking that you're attacking us now remember who the real enemy is but we don't wrestle with people we wrestle with uh spiritual principalities you know so if you're coming up against a pharisee spirit bind it up in jesus name walk away disappear you haven't got to entertain that you haven't got to deal with that and that's one thing i've learned i don't have to answer everybody yeah he never defended himself he never defended himself against the Pharisee he let them talk and he just stayed quiet and he observed he wanted to see what they were doing how they were trying to monitor him you know they twisted his words they love that they twist your words so as hard as it is the enemy right now more than anything wants us to get out of character he wants us to say see even you're not a real follower of Jesus therefore Jesus isn't who he says he is you know right back to the beginning and also if we have Christians online saying this person's not really saved, this person's not really redeemed, we're not even targeting that person. You're questioning Jesus. It's blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. The whole point of Jesus is that you are made anew. So if you're saying that person's not made anew based on nothing, then you are blaspheming the Holy Spirit. Again, clever. That's how you know it's a Pharisee. Jess, this makes you think of this verse in Revelation, Revelation 12-11, this whole conversation which you eloquently put it, Paul's words in Ephesians say that we battle not against flesh and blood, but against powers and principalities. And in Revelation 12, it says they overcame him by the blood of the lamb and by the word of their testimony. And they love not their lives unto death, right? This idea that like we overcome the enemy of our souls in this world be by the blood of Jesus and by our own stories, testimony of who he is, but also how, who we are because of him. And then we don't love our lives more than we, than we love him. And yeah, correct. And I think that's it, right? Do you love your life more than you do to Christ? And I think that's a sobering question for a lot of people. And don't forget that there's nothing more powerful than your story and how God has changed your life. For you just pulled you out of the occult and casting spells and doing these dark things. But literally, the way we overcome him, the way many of our souls in the world is by the blood of Christ. And I think, man, this is like this. There's something I love what you said. Like, don't don't be afraid to share your testimony. People can't take that away from you. They can say what they want about you, but they can't take away that you've been changed by him. And I and man, isn't that the point? Right. And so, you know, I don't know. Good on you for for weathering all of this storm. And, you know, I love that you're exposing this to me. He's going to really hate this. He hates me anyway. But I mean, even this conversation. The more that you expose the things of darkness, this is Ephesians. Love not the things of darkness, but rather expose them. Or participate not in the things of darkness, but rather expose them. The more that we expose what the enemy is doing, the less effective his tactics are going to be. Whether it's the work of the pharisaical spirit or whatever it is. All these things play into it. But Christ is king, man. He's still sitting on the throne. And all these things will bow at his feet. you know, blessing to, there's no blessing for slander and, and stirring up. I mean, eventually it just dies out, you know, you pop up. I think, I think what I would say to a lot of people is like, if you want influence, if you want a community, if you want to be a leader in God's army, like the only way to get that is, is through the fruits of the spirit is, is not saying things, is keeping your mouth closed, is trusting in him, is serving other people or trying harder or, or or being patient for your time. And, you know, obviously it takes years and years and years for some of these people to do God's work and his will. It's not, it's not about you. And I don't, you know, I don't, in my own life, it's like there was a long times of just wondering and wondering, like, what am I doing? What am I, what is the, you know, there's moments where it felt like I was in tune with myself and I was doing what I was supposed to do. And then there was a decade or two where I was like, I don't know what I'm doing, you know? No, exactly. Yeah. And the Pharisees won't let you ask questions. Yeah. No, don't ask questions. Yes. Don't question anything. Right. Well, I mean, I think the thing I learned in the band days was like you were always on tour with a bigger band. So you were the opening band and you were always jealous of the bigger band and their fans and their engagement and their contracts and their their career. and so you kind of learned early on as a band to be like you either celebrate those guys and the bands that did the bands that celebrated everyone else they got so many more opportunities because they weren't the bands knew these guys are good dudes and we want to help them and the guys that were jealous and angry they stayed small and then they broke up and they had the infighting so they killed each other you know eventually so that was a that was a good lesson to learn it at a young age because i struggled i was pretty jealous of a lot of bands but i was also i also loved a lot of the bands so it was like i was in the middle somewhere of like some days i was very jealous and some days i was like and i had to kind of weed that out of me to go man yeah they did something they have more talent whatever it's just it was hard yeah it was really hard to sit there and deal with that it's human you know these are human human emotions and the thing is the enemy gets a stronghold when we don't reject them that's how strongholds are created so it's fine to say i am jealous but god take that away from me i don't want that the problem becomes oh i'm not jealous uh there's a problem with them you know so yeah it's hard out here none of us are perfect we're probably not going to be until jesus comes back and fully sanctifies us we're all sinners we all need jesus but more importantly we can't take anything with us other than other souls none of our clothes cars anything all we can take is each other so we need to stand together mo holy spirit mo problems right yeah sometimes i mean that's yeah you you i mean we all have problems because we all we all are the we all bear the image of of god we are the image bearers right so we automatically are at odds with the darkness but yeah yeah once you start playing for for god's team once you're on team jesus once you start hitting some triples in the triples alley right so yeah i just want to encourage you just like i know that you're fighting the good fight yeah and and man if there isn't a more powerful testimony of you know god rescuing someone from the darkness um you haven't heard too many more wild than than what you've been through so we just want to encourage you as a sister in christ you keep fighting the good fight you're doing yeah you're doing the work of of jesus i mean he said more or I desire that all would come unto me, right? And God's uniquely given you access and a testimony to reach people in spaces that Nate and I can't. You know, that a lot of people don't have those doors opened for us to speak truth. And so I would just say keep doing it. And we're always going to come up. Jesus promised if we'd come up against resistance that people would hate us because they hate him. That it was going to be hard. And I think that there is this sort of— But you don't expect it from his own people. No, but there is this idea, and I think it's a pervasive lie out there that once you give your life to Christ, everything somehow magically gets better. Now, it does in a lot of ways, but it also gets infinitely harder because the warfare and the enemy ratchets up its war against you because you become a threat to that kingdom. And when you're a threat to the kingdom of darkness, you have a big target. And the more you push back the darkness, the bigger that target gets. So it shouldn't be an accident. It's not an accident. It's not an accident that those that advance the kingdom are meeting resistance. There's no utopia on this side of paradise. No, but our king is coming back for us, you know? And I think that's, the Bible says, you know, lay for yourselves your treasures in heaven. And I think that's, man, if we aren't reminded daily, let's do in our show, Jess, that it's hard out there. But when you know the king, you can always have hope. Hope in that, and you can always take solace in that. And also the fact that he's already put all these things under his feet, including the pharisaical spirit, right? It's all under his feet. Yeah, yeah. He's already given us the authority to trample the heads of the snakes and scorpions. And just be encouraged, okay? Because, yes, but also remember, we have to pray for the salvation of the ones we don't like as well. Yep. A hundred percent. So everybody, everybody needs, I pray everyone gets to heaven, no matter whether they hate me or plop my downfall. that's my whole thing. So don't rise in the way the enemy wants you to. He wants division and hate. The Pharisees is a hard, hard spirit. If you can't pray for them, if you can't rebuke it, just walk away, carry on doing what you're doing. Spread the word of Jesus. That's what we were told to do. Testify. That's all I have to say. And the spirit of division is greater than ever. So, I mean, as Christians, don't get sucked into that. I mean, even if you're listening to a podcast or something else and it just whips you into a frenzy of division and you start saying you know the truth of this situation, it's like, what's the fruit of that? I mean, take a 50,000-foot view. Is there any fruit in this? Is anything fruitful coming out of this? Or we all just hate each other a little more? Maybe. Just maybe this isn't a good thing. I think Christians are getting sucked into it because we know all these conspiracy theories are true and nobody believed us forever, and now we're mad about it. Well, do something. Don't just fuel the fire of division because you know something that someone else doesn't. And obviously, I was talking about these conspiracy theories when I was 22 and getting my friends mad since then. I mean, it played a big role, but I just think we're not helping each other right now in this crazy time. We need to love each other. We need to love each other. We need to be aware of our enemy, and we need to love each other. Well, tell our listeners where they can hang out and send you some encouraging things. And then also, we're all humans, and it's not always going to be perfect. No, absolutely not. I mean, if I am still doing it, and I'm not going anywhere because I'm being bullied offline. I'm not someone who gets bullied. I'm a big girl. It's not that. I've got children. I have to kind of consider them in this as well and the level of threat I've had and things like that. So I do have to consider certain things. But if I am still around, which hopefully I will continue to be for a little while, by God's grace, it's up to him. I'm on Instagram. I'm on YouTube. I'm on TikTok. Come and have a chat, you know, whether you're a witch, whatever. I'm there. And my whole thing is I just want to encourage people to fight the good fight. And remember, you're not fighting people. You're fighting spirits. Okay. So it's like you versus that person. It's a spiritual dynamic going on. And that's why I hope to teach the spiritual war. not the physical one. Let's go. I love it. Thanks, Jess. Thanks, Jess. Good to see you again. God bless, boys. Thank you for having me and maybe see you again soon. Yeah. And we had a lot of questions about the things you can't talk about in England, so we don't talk about those, but we talked about the things we could today. I know. Too long. No worries. Thanks, Jess. All right. Blessings on you. Keep on fighting. Thank you. Keep doing the good work there out there. I will. Take care, boys. See you. Bye. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.