Traitors w/ Yam Yam and Sandra, Baldoni News, Grammy's, RHOP, RHOBH & Vacation Recap

You're crazy. What's going on everybody? Welcome back to another exciting episode of the Valfos Reality Recap Edition. I am your host Nick Join by my tan. Son of a kiss. Son of a kiss. I'm a wonderful, gorgeous wife. I didn't listen to Nick when he was like, put on the sunscreen. Where are the sunscreen? She was like, sun's the sun, Eddie. Did you ever see that movie? I was like, all you need is one good burn. And then you're set for some errands into a tan. You're the sunscreen skincare queen too, no? I would not give myself that name, but if you were like, in that I will take it. My video is a very important vitamin and how you get it if you're blocking it with sunscreen. I didn't believe that I needed sunscreen for a really long time growing up. Which is crazy. Yeah, can you on the other side? Yeah, and I lived in Florida. So I would just pop out. I didn't moisturize. I didn't put sunscreen on. And now I'm speaking of happy birthday rivers. Happy birthday, everybody. Happy birthday, everybody. Happy new pink hair, Mary first. Most importantly, Mary's birthday. Most importantly, my hair is pink. It's second most important. I know. I'm your troopers birthday. It is rivers birthday today. Happy birthday to our baby dear river. So we took a little trip. We went to river Amaya. Oh, great destination. A little getaway to enjoy the three of us. How did you get it? Celebrate our daughter's birthday. And how did you enjoy it? It was, yeah, honestly for the first time in a while, I'm plugged a little bit. It's not easy for me. I was like, I know that's not true. I saw the dress. Nick Vile. It's Saturday. I was only responding. I was only responding. He's like, and I was three hours ahead. He said, can you please respect my privacy on this vacation also? Who'd we have on Monday? Yes. Yeah. That's not how it went down. You did send a really nice text about my fan cam that I made though. So thank you. Yeah. I was just trying to compliment people. He was being nice. He did great. He also texted us and told us to take off early on Friday to get drinks. Oh, yeah, he did. Wow, great. Bye. Pretty rocking. Great. He was in just like such a great mood because we were on vacation. That's what I was like vacation. Everyone goes on vacation. Everyone goes on vacation. Yeah. Yeah. And then on, I was definitely feeling very reflective, very in my feelings, very kind of just feeling gratitude about life and things like that on. I think we were very also just like present. Because we've never really taken a trip like just the three of us and like fully unplugged and like not, you know, it's not been for work or like, you know, for our honeymoon, my mom so graciously came along so that we could still spend time with each other. And this trip, we were like, we're just going to three of us. We're going to celebrate River. So we really all three connected and we were all very like, yeah, I felt we were all very grateful and connected and we just, it was, it was. It was lovely. How many nights? Three nights. Four days. Okay. You know, four nights. We got there Wednesday night, left Sunday. And I don't know what the man that is, but we had a lovely time on Friday night. We had nice little balcony and then I took a gummy. Yeah. And then there was a wedding at the hotel next door of which there were some lovely women who said hi, who listened to show if you, if you're listening, shout out. Hey. And I heard the wedding DJ, which was like, he was good. And I was a, that's the best. That's the best. I'm chilling on the balcony by myself. Families asleep. Gummy digesting. Hitting. But hitting. And honestly, it was like, it really just, there were some songs that like brought me back to different phases of my life as music can do. Yes. And I was just feeling it just like on the gummy, you know, thinking about my life. And yeah, and, and yeah, the DJ was really good. Yeah. Anyways, it really made me think, now and I have said this before about our daughter. We often refer to her as our, our miracle, maybe, obviously, you know, we love her, where maybe we're biased. But like, as we know, you guys know, now he's obviously very open about some of the miscarriages she's experienced. We've been able to hopefully identify what was causing that, but like realizing that when River showed up, like, she just, we had no complications. There was nothing there. And it really kind of felt very much like a miracle for her to be here. And there's like a million reasons why we think of River that way. But like, I'm up there on the balcony thinking about my life. And it really just made me think about, you know, because now that I were talking about like how River is like a miracle baby. And it really honestly does make you feel like, I mean, I remember so many moments in my life, like I'm old enough to, you know, to reflect on things. There are relationships that are like a lifetime ago, you know, where it's just like that, that relationship or that time of my life played a huge role in my life. And it also is like a fever dream, you know, it was so long ago. And then you think about like all the disappointment or heartbreak or frustrations or things not going your way. I mean, I remember some breakups. I remember one. I was living with Phyllis. And then I was, remember, I was, I was down bad. I was like, honestly, having a meltdown. And I was on the phone with my mom saying some of the craziest shit. Because I was just like so upset about what was happening. And it just you think about all those moments that like didn't go your way or heartbreak or things that left scars. Like you thought you wouldn't get out of, you know, you're like, yeah, this one's on the motor. And this, you know, it's just like a time of your life where you just like this, like this won't never pass, you know, and the people of this too show pass and things like that. But like, I'm on the balcony and I'm, you know, I'm thinking about my life and I'm thinking, so I'm thinking about all these moments. And then obviously Catherine O'Hara passed as we all know, which was very devastating and very sad. And I'm watching all these tributes to Catherine, all of which are beautiful. And here's this person who truly seemed to live a very full and wonderful life. From accolades to like the friendships, you know, she's just one of those people where everything just has, everyone had something wonderful to say about her. And there's this video going around of Catherine. I think it was her last interview that TMZ did of her and they're asking, you know, what's the role that you will be most proud of, you know, I guess when you win. Kind of a crazy question. Like you've played so many iconic characters, you've been so many iconic movies. Do we have the clip? We do have the clip. When all is said and done, which one role would you most like to be remembered for? Mother and my children. What about acting? That's a good role, like a personal role. His wife? That's good to me. So anyways, I watched that and I'm just like obviously on vacation with my family, my daughter's birthday is about to come up and it really, you know, really hit home for me and it really made me think about like just all these moments in my life where like I, again, things didn't go the way I wanted. My expectations weren't mad. I was heartbroken and then you like for at least for me and I think I speak for my wife as well, you know, but like when your, your kid shows up, like you're just like, holy shit, you think about all this, all the little moments in your life, every little moment. I always like think about like the butterfly effect, right? Like, I don't know if you guys ever been like, I wish I could do that, you know, that time in my life over, you know, or should I, what if I went to school here instead of there? Or you know, and then like sometimes you think about that, you're like, well, I don't know, I might not have been friends with that person or that person. Sometimes you're like, oh, you know, I would have met my new friends or whatever. But when your kid shows up, you're just like this, I would never like everything had to happen for this might for River to be here. The butterfly effect. Like every, you know, so every, every heartbreak, every disappointment, everything that didn't go my way, like turns into like a miracle. That's just part of your journey that like had to happen for River to show up. And then like, it just kind of made me think about that. And think about Catherine. It's just like it is a reminder that like it tends to be the most intimate and meaningful connections you have that are the things that you care about in life. You know, whether that's children, whether that's a spouse, whether it's a friend, a brother and sister, but it is those connections that you really care about. And it's generally not, you know, an award you got at work or, you know, a raise or a job or, you know, or something. It tends not to be. And anyways, thanks to Catherine for reminding me of that. I also thought about my wife when I met Nally, like the show existed. It was a popular successful show, but like I'm living in Venice, I'm renting, but just objectively speaking, my life, I have so much more in my life after Nally showed up in it, you know, I talk a lot about on this show, the Calgary decisions matter. And like you, you know, like think, you know, you have to, but like making a decision and choosing each other and choosing my wife is like objectively made my life better. I have so much more now in my life than I had before I had you in it. And it's just like kind of great to see. That doesn't always happen for some people. They're like, damn. I guess so. And you're like off the rails after you get your car to bed. But I'm very grateful to, you know, I don't think the show would be where it was if it weren't for you. And obviously you wouldn't have river. You definitely would not have river. You would probably have some other baby. What in the US, Q. What in the US? He might still be out there playing a field. That's true. You could still be single. He could still be rollerblading in Venice. Getting massages. And painting, Bob Ross. I mean, listen, my single days, I appreciate them. They were great. They played a big role in my life. They were also probably the saddest times of my life. Shout out Phyllis. You know, shout out Phyllis. And this is someone who can really enjoy being alone. It's the introvert in me. But like, glowing this catches up to you, you know, sometimes. After a while, you're just like, anyways, I'm... Well, we also have the age of attraction trailer that dropped over... I think you dropped Thursday. It looks really good. I think we should play it. When you tell people your age, they put a stigma to that. The truth is, when love is there and love is real, age won't matter. Here, age is just a number. You'll be dating without ever knowing how old your partner is. I don't know if these guys are my age, my dad's age, my grandpa's age. I ain't getting nervous. Good luck. Whoo! Where are you gonna get? An oyster shooter. I say we go for it. Just because they're an Apathy Jack. Yeah. You want to hear something absolutely insane? All this chat about Apathy Jacks and everything that it would still. Like kids. In a regular situation, I would probably want to touch you with my child. God. I am a pacifier that he's too young. My oldest is 29, and I think he's in his 30s. Everyone thinks I'm significantly older than I am. I think I'm gonna shock her. Catch a seatbelt on. I am. Oh my God. March 11th. What? Only on Netflix. I think you guys can like it. I want to know how old he is, like so badly. I can tell you. Can you tell me how old he is? I can tell you. I really want to know. You can't wait if you need to. No. Okay. Can you wait now? I'm not patient. I'll try. What are the people saying? I mean, people seem excited for it. I think like it's one of those shows where it's a concept that makes people want to watch regardless if you're into dating shows or if you're just fascinated by the potential outcome. It really brings out the haters and the fans. Yeah. Yeah, it does. It's like, oh my God. I hate this so much, but definitely we'll be watching. Yeah. I remember everyone's opinion when they heard the concept of love is blind. We're just like, oh, for folks, say that's never gonna work. And then it's like, oh my God, season 25. Yeah. That's what it goes. We are at season 10. I mean, it. Yeah. It works. Is it crazy watching a trailer for what you all feel, that it's, it's coming, and everything that happens, but it's coming out? It's exciting. Yeah, it's really, really. Mal, I crushed it. I mean, I wouldn't have been able to do any of that without you, so did you guys do, like, a lot of coaching with them? Like, did they ever come here for advice? Like, you know, how in the bachelor, like, Jesse Palmer is, like, giving advice to people or at least there are scenes of it, at least there are scenes where he's doing that. They have a couple, there's a couple scenes, but again, it's really, we're just, you know, as hosts, you learn as hosts, it's not about us. It's not about you. Yeah. We're just the vehicle. Obviously, we were, you know, we're very grateful to a Velvet Hammer, the production company who came up with this idea and obviously thought of us to be its host and given our age difference and our wonderful relationship, you know, I think, you know, I think the hope is we are an example that this can work for people. It's not for everyone. It's for some people, but I think this general premise, like Love is blind, is that, you know, it's a, people are challenged out there to find connections and relationships and what society kind of pushes you into or what the dating apps push you into. Sometimes you're not really focused on just the compatibility aspect, but really just more focused on, you know, initial chemistry or what you think you're supposed to go for. And it was really exciting to see how this environment that we brought, you know, 40 singles into really opened their eyes to different possibilities. And obviously that, you know, experiences something I had with my wife, you know, when we first met, we joke about that story and how it took a while for me to to wake up. But yeah, we're excited about it and happy to be a part of it. And we were very appreciative of Velvet Hammer and Netflix for including us. I did see comments of how did I not get cast for season one and how do I get cast for season two. So I'm fingers crossed that there is a, but you got to watch the first. Yeah, you are going to have to watch. There will be a season two if you want to be cast. It won't season two. 40 singles. 40 singles. That's a lot. 20 women, 20 men. How many couple? How many people does it follow? You're going to have to watch. There's a lot of connections. There are more connections and relationships that end up following because again, we didn't really, you, we didn't force anything. It was people allowed to date who they wanted. So that included some people who were very similar in age and there were other people who had larger age differences. The show being the premise that it is, tend to follow those relationships that were there were more age differences. But there were a ton of connections made, which was very encouraging and just kind of speaks to the authenticity of the environment that created. We do have a great episode lined up for you. Brent McLeary joins us in a moment. He has been very actively following the Justin Belldoni and Blake Lively case. And while a lot of people out there, it seems like there's a lot of misinformation and more just like opinions even us. Obviously, we have a strong point of view, but like I think at times, we're not into the weeds of some of the granular details. And when I, you know, when we speak on it, I always wish I could probably be more articulate about it. One of the, I have followed with great interest in someone who I think really has an accurate picture of some of the finer details of this case, specifically the retaliation aspect of this case that, you know, Blake is bringing forward against Justin. And I think there is more and more information coming out that is eye opening and I think very damning, but it's always hard for me to kind of present that in a way that's digestible for you guys. So we thought we'd bring on Brent to help us understand some of the things going on and being presented in this case as we follow it. Also, we have former faithful of two seasons ago in the castle. Sandra Diaz Twine from survivor. Winner of survivor. A two time survivor winner. Queen of survivor. Queen of survivor. So she joins us in a later this episode to help us break down the most recent episode of traders. Also, Jam Jam will be joining us as well to talk about his unceremonious exit. That was brutal. Well, he went out of the bank. I gotta say, he did. He did. Oh, yeah, he did. So that is all going on. Plus, Karen Huger is out and she had a nice conversation with Andy. I'm already obsessed with her. Oh, yeah. The Grandolph. Oh, there's clips of the, so much to like clips of the reunion trailer, the reunion. Oh, my God. Karen talking to Wendy. When she comes in being like, I hope you all were on your best behavior or whatever she said. You need to talk less. Listen to me. Whatever that blind was crazy. To me, professor, you need to speak. You need to shut the fuck up. No, it was wild. Incredible. Wow. We got some bad hills. So lots to get into. Also, do not forget speaking of Netflix show Temptation Island. Well, it'll be coming this year. And finally, the Vial Files is doing a live show. The Netflix is a joke festival is happening. May 6 in Los Angeles. And if you want to see, finally, the Vial Files live on the road, we will be in Los Angeles with the cast of this upcoming season's Temptation Island. So lots of fun. Bring your girls. Bring your partners. Bring yourself. Doesn't really matter. We will be having a great time. So join us on May 6. Tickets are now available. Just go to the link in the episode description or our website for more information. You can get those tickets. Now they are going to be going fast. So do not wait. Or you may miss out. So Vial Files Plus is available. It's ad free now. So if you don't want to listen in what not, you can sign up for Vial Files Plus for ad free episodes plus updates special where you get all your favorite updates from our ass and it colors as well as our deep dives into all your favorite reality TV shows like Trader's Secret Lives of Mormon Wives, Salt Lake City, Housewives, all that and so much more in our pop extra roundup. So lots of things to get yourself through the day with Vial Files Plus. So just go to our website and sign up. It's free to sign up. You'll be glad that you did. Up next, Brent helps us break down some of the new and very shocking evidence that is coming forward out of the Blake lively in Justin but only case and that is next. This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp. You know, listen, sometimes it can feel like everyone else has got it together. Maybe you're looking for relationship and all your friends in a relationship or you don't love your job and it feels like everyone around you has their dream job. But listen, like things aren't always as they seem, you know, comparisons at the youth with joy and sometimes you just have to get it off your chest and BetterHelp is helping people jump into therapy like never before. So many hurdles when it comes to therapy, it can be inconvenient, expensive, a little intimidating. Well, BetterHelp helps alleviate all those major obstacles. It's incredibly convenient. 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Alipop is much much lower in sugar than your conventional soda with two to five grams of sugar from natural sources and no added sugar like the sodas you will find on the shelves. Brent welcome to the show. Thank you for having me pleasure to be here. Well very excited to have you. I told our audience that I have been following you on social for some time now because I've really enjoyed your coverage of this case and anyone who's listened to the show knows kind of the position where I stand, which obviously has his case unfolded. I followed it with great interest specifically around the retaliation aspect of this case. It is a little scary to think about the way people can use social media to now go after their accusers or their enemies or just people they don't like and how that can have just a really devastating effect on the people who are affected. But I do think a lot of things are lost in this case with all the discourse going on online and it seems like the intention of a lot of people who follow this case, especially the one supporting Justin that they want to bring in confusion. They want to bring in a bunch of like, well, let's break down Taylor Swift's and Blake Lylee's friendship and etc. etc. where I feel like a lot of the very important details of this case seem to be getting lost in all of the kind of I guess distraction. So I would love for you to just kind of give us your breakdown of how you've seen this case so far and then specifically help us understand how my audience understand just the retaliation of this accusation leveled against Justin Belldoni and who is tag and who have they represented in the past and what are the some of the tactics that they use and why is it so damning for this case as it relates to Justin? Yeah. So I think you hit the nail in the head there right now is this case when you pull back it's not necessarily about Blake Lylee or Justin Belldoni but in the way that which the press is being weaponized to discredit victims or anybody who speaks up about misconduct or any of these sorts of allegations and we've seen this time and time again when a woman speaks up and then she's just ripped apart in the press. So tag that Justin hired as his crisis PR is founded by Melissa Nathan who used to work at Hiltzic Strategies and so when she left she took a number of her clients and so she has like a history of kind of representing these men who end up with having problematic allegations against them and there seems to be this online backlash against them. Through this case what we've seen is you know Blake Lylee alleged that she came forward with the sexual harassment claims they agreed to what place accommodations filmed the second half of the movie without any incident but that Justin kind of got nervous that he saw that Ryan Reynolds had unfollowed him on social media and went to his publicist to say I want a plan I need something to feel protected so he hired Melissa Nathan and the crisis PR team and they come up with a plan to protect his reputation and to go after Blake Lylee. Now they have said that they only plan to do this their events has been you know yes we came up with a plan this was our plan we were going to attacker on all of these things we're going to attacker for you know having a history being difficult to work with and being tone deaf and then an online campaign kind of came up along all those talking points but it's just a coincidence that they match all those same group talking points and what we've seen is all around the same type of that they're that they're trying to execute their plan yes yes like the day after they say hey let's execute the plan suddenly the plan system folds just organically and organic has been their big keyword and what we've seen is just a couple of weeks ago a bunch of evidence gone sealed on the ducket and it shows that Melissa Nathan and her team we're talking to each other about hey we should plan to story in one case with the daily male saying hey we should do a talky point about how problematic it was how she misrepresented like the movie didn't advertise it well she's tone deaf and they list out all of these talking points and then they talk to the daily bail in two days later how some bowshaw prints an article talking about how problematic Blake Lylee is you know she marketed her alcohol branded an after party she was doing this she wasn't talking about all of the domestic violence everything that's in their list of talking points and then they're shown tag celebrating the article saying that Alison Bocheff came through for us and like congratulations oh thank you and so we have all of the pieces of of this showing that for the duration of the campaign that they hired tag for they were planting articles but it wasn't just articles against Blake Lylee which is the confusing thing about this there was an article that came out in the Hollywood reporter exposing that's just in at hired Johnny Debs crisis PR right which looks bad right and the idea was that they kind of pinned this on Blake Lylee's PR saying she had obviously planted this to harm Justin text messages on the ducket show however that Melissa Nathan herself planted this article and then was joking with journalists afterwards about how this was going to bring in all of the problematic men that they were going to hire her now and like she could call into the market essentially on problematic men looking for PR so it was almost like she planted that story just it was her own PR yeah because there's text messages between her and the author Pam McClendon and Melissa Nathan's asking like hey when can I expect this article but it's a pattern of behavior from tag where a number of their clients have these smear sites that support you know them and then defame their targets a whole bunch of fake social media accounts and then they see these links across the internet and they did this for the ex Alexander brothers they've done this for Amanda Ghost Stephanie Jones which is how the whole Blake Lylee thing started in the first place was that Stephanie had seen this smear website against her and started to investigate she hired a forensic verb and that's what then uncovered all of the text messages showing that Justin was then hiring tags to do the same against Blake Lylee so pulling back we're now seeing like this campaign by tag and Melissa Nathan where she's been working with Justin's lawyer Brian Friedman and this other gentleman by the name of Jed Wallace who's kind of like a digital fixer to basically enact these smear campaigns to kind of change online opinion and they've been doing this for it looks like about a decade and all of this is now being uncovered just simply from this case that's crazy and then again when you think about it like Justin before this case started was a man who made his entire career in platform presenting himself as an ally and a self-identified male feminist and things like that did Ted talks about this wrote books and if you're having a hard time believing Justin would do something like this again it just speaks to like why would this guy you know there's this famous Ted talk where Justin's like are you man enough to even believe the women if their allegations are even against you and so then here's this guy who had some you know again like the initial allegations were just like hey you're making me feel weird and uncomfortable at work and here's a list of like what 17 different things that just stopped right it was this more like I'm not I'm not taking this any further just like can you stop being weird at work and then we'll move forward and his response to that was to hire this you know this this team of people who had a long list of even if you know even if Justin at that point with thought of himself as this great guy there was clearly a long list of people who many of which had some very damning accusations against them and then last year delusional and think all of these men are just victims of resentful people it would be a really bad luck for a guy who thinks is himself as this ally to to want to hire this group of people who have such a long reputation of of going after women or going after victims many of which are women yeah and I think that's the thing for me is like if you have this platform you would think that you would surround yourself with people of a similar mind and that somebody even if Justin himself was kind of lost in that insecurity and that fear of oh like things are going to come out about me that somebody would pull him aside and say hey you realize doing this is counter to everything you stand for and in fact his publicist Stephanie Jones had actually reached out to Wayfaira and to Justin to warn him about Melissa Nathan and said hey this is the sort of stuff she does this is what she covers up you don't want to hire her because not only is it a bad luck but like this could damage your brand and your reputation even if you just hire her and you genuinely believe right that you are being falsely accused and you want to push back this is not the way to do it but it seems knowing the history of Melissa Nathan they didn't really investigate much further and I suspect it's because that's exactly why they wanted to hire her how do you think this case unfolds I mean not specifically with just Blake and Justin but to your point where it's just like the internet's only getting more and more out of control and if there's one company like tag who's doing this no doubt there's going to be more people trying to replicate what they're doing how do it mean is it just is that what the internet has become you know these people who like where can we find protection so or victims out there so they don't have to worry about people you know like what's stopping the average Joe from having a vendetta against a coworker and and hiring someone and paying a little bit money to have them harassed online or bullied because they you know they they want to discredit them yeah um unfortunately if I think the answer is there isn't really right and that's kind of really the big takeaway from this case a bunch of advocacy groups and organizations submitted amicus briefs to the the court to kind of give more of that framing to talk about this and that's exactly what they talked about is that this is unfortunately something that can happen to hate regular person who makes these sort of allegations or encounters this kind of misconduct that the courts are often used to weaponize against them and that you can file a counter suit against somebody baseless uh and just kind of drain them financially emotionally force them to go through discovery and have to hand over all of their text messages and invade their privacy you know even after you have gone through like these really disturbing and uncomfortable situations then your abusers still then gets to weaponize the court go after you and right now there just are not protections um there was a new law that was passed in california to kind of uh combat this and to give triple penalties against somebody who files these kinds of lawsuits and that's one of the key decisions in this case that's going forward is it'll be a test of that new law or to see whether that gets enacted about against Justin and his now dismissed claims and his now dismissed lawsuit could be end of being a real financial penalty to him and Blake Lively would be awarded like treble damages for him trying to weaponize the courts against her in silence sir. uh as someone who's filed this case with uh great a closeness how do you think this case will play out and do you think there will be a time where the general public or the people online at this point people are just like committed to their point of view or do you think there's a chance that some people might you know here's some here more and more about how these people work um and become aware of of of their ability to be misled or or manipulated online. I've definitely seen from my own audience the comments that I get that there is a section of people who did initially believe us and are have been kind of convinced by some of the disinformation and that now having seen the evidence that's come out and like you talked about this is not just Blake Lively now a number of other women on that production of come out said that Justin made them uncomfortable cross boundaries uh I think like through the depositions I think we have like 10 women in total now from not just the dens with us but other productions as well and I think that has helped to turn the tide but I do think you're right that there is a certain section of the internet who now will never move on from this regardless of what happens in the court case that whenever there is a Blake Lively project or whatever she's mentioned there's going to be a ton of comments repeating these same things even if they end up getting dismissed out of court and you know there's a financial impact on that right there's a damage to your career and your reputation that you will never be able to undo. I feel like I've seen a lot of you know anytime an article or social media posts something about this case I feel like the comments are always either hashtag Justin justice for Justin or oh my god I'm so tired of seeing these two people's faces like do you think part of their tactic was like let's just put so much out there that everyone is just like so tired of hearing about it that no one cares by time we actually come around to the trial. No absolutely and if you look at the scenario planning document that time put together um you know they talk about that they're like they really want to push all of this information out there um to just kind of make people bored of it right because if you can get that initial wave put your story out first and then by the time the corrections come around everybody's like oh I'm so over it then effectively your messaging and narrative has won out so all of this has become a PR battle and when you think about like underneath it all what this is about you know making women uncomfortable unsat a man who really used his platform as like somebody who was safe for women and wanted to make this movie and the whole reason Kaleen gave him the rights to this movie was that she felt he was the right person and he was a safe person to do this and now you have not just Kaleen but Janie Slate like lively like sex and the screenwriter Christy Hall all saying but he signed lying them on this project and didn't really listen to their input and made them uncomfortable you know it's just so disheartening to see his platform weaponized and used in this way yeah and what's also so crazy about it too is while these things may start in organically I do believe and I quite honestly know that what's crazy is like once you get something started then the organic part does happen because the way people operate it you know the internet is all about trends right you're dancing trend you're lip syncing trend whatever whatever is going viral people want to jump on they want to have their viral moment so if they notice you know anti-blake and pro-justing content performing better there is an incentive for those people to make that content and then double and triple down it starts warping your perspective of reality and you just start jumping on trends and giving your point of view and then that that that part is organic it started inorganically but what's crazy is just how easy it is to manipulate other people and those other people can feel included by being part of some quote a quote unquote movement that never was authentic in the first place but it's in that part is even crazier to think about yeah and I mean we see that a lot like as we have all of these discussions about like celebrities and reality TV right the conflict and the drama is really what gets people engaged so the more you can lean into and sell that you can start that wildfire you know with an initial spark and then from there let's kind of people's natural inclination to really dive into the controversy explode that out but the danger here is you know we're not just talking about like celebrity gossip we're talking about somebody who was in an unsafe work environment made these complaints and what that does then is just make it so much harder for everybody else not just celebrities and reality stars but you know regular individuals who come forward with these self-evaluation because people have been trained through this process to dismiss and to just you know instantly be thrown out that oh she must be lying or like she's doing it for attention that's crazy well Brent I really appreciate taking the time where can people find you follow you if they want to learn more about the stuff that you're following yeah absolutely so I go by the handle x patriac over on tiktok youtube and instagram like you said covering the case and I'm doing a lot of the work showing what's actually on the docket rather than what's in the tap lids keep up the great work and come back soon we appreciate you taking the time thank you so much thank you thank you thank you crazy yeah it is uh it's crazy anyway I appreciate Brent but that that is why we've you know had the position we've had for the longest time um and uh it matters less that uh Blake lively and Taylor Swift might have referred to Justin as a bitch it maybe matters more about how jest and handled uh someone coming forward and saying hey you're you're making me feel a little uncomfortable and instead of just like respecting those wishes you know spent thousands and thousands of dollars to destroy these people's credibility I mean it's it's really dark I mean think about you know it's this like when you feel like the whole world's coming at you and making these just horrible comments about in your DM it's just harassing like most people aren't built for something like that and don't how to handle that and don't have the resources in the support system to protect themselves that's a scary world you know and for all the people who think that uh it was Blake and Ryan who are the powerful people and not Justin Justin's like business partner is a literal billionaire um and he was his financier and so in the terms of finances you know Justin has a lot of power and and access to to to money and things like that so that that part is you know really it's just wild anyway all right well uh flipping it to a slightly lighter note let's get into some headlines that happened over the weekend uh we had the Grammys uh Justin Bieber hot hot hot hot as as I've been told travel around hot it's giving us the taste of Coachella and hot maybe I'll go maybe you know maybe I'm not the travel around she's she's not for you not for you not for you not for you did you see that clip of Sabrina Carpenter on the carpet with the paparazzi and she was like you guys are really quiet this year travel around really made a movement huh did you did you see that clip of her being they were like what you're like it was at Sundance um because she was there for the moment which Charlie and um they were like what's your fate all-time favorite like moment with the paparazzi and she's like probably when I told them to shut the fuck up I'm like uh apple I love when she's a bitch it's my favorite thing in the world it's hot as fuck yeah what's a good Grammys I mean you even had share forgetting to announce the winner and then announcing the wrong winner did you see that lose their lost land again no it was basically a dull says dizzy a dull dizzy no she fully like never get over that she fully walked off stage and forgot like she did her little speech and was like okay cool and the blocked off and then he was like uh sure you want to announce the winners and then she comes back out and then she says like I think the runner up no no no so what happened is she basically she starts announcing the winner and then she's like oh I thought I was gonna read this off the teleprompter but I have to use these cards and then she opened up the card and then she was like it was Kendrick Lamar and Sizzas Luther uh-huh and then she said Luther Vandross but she didn't even say Luther Vandross she said Luther Gangross and then he cuts the goddrick and says and then she's like she immediately tried to backtrack no she goes oh oh I mean Kendrick Lamar and then it was too late I think she should have gone never too much never too much never too much do you remember when Kendall Jenner was um reading a teleprompter you tell a ropeder wasn't for one direction I don't even remember I just like so long ago so long ago so long ago but I'm reading a 12-pounder's heart I bet it goes kind of fast doesn't it yeah you have to really keep up you can't take your time yeah no also it's like imagine like I don't for any of the contacts wears in the room or the world um sometimes when you have contacts and you look far away you still can't see shit they get cloudy and I don't know what you would do with the teleprompter yeah it does go fast also shout out to bad bunny for being the first artist to win album of the year with a primarily Spanish language yeah finally oh my god his like moment it was amazing when he called us I was just like saw the scary styles of course like saying that he's the winner just like to iconic but you know like he was just like this was so surreal for him that he was just like that no yeah I love watching during any award show just like you when you can feel how emotional they are about just like how surreal it is for them to be there and to be in that moment and I feel like because I'm always under the impression that I'm like they know it's the right like they give them a heads up like I you know like like some like they know that they're nominated for a Grammy but then I'm like but the winner like I gotta know it's them and then it's like to see bad bunny find out in that moment it was like oh wait no maybe they don't know yeah I don't think they do I don't think they I mean think about like Beyonce last year like when a devil went up and was like Beyonce should have won this like I feel like they really are funny out in real time but bad bunny on incredible speech I loved it I loved it I loved the album well we got also one something love the adin one best new artist oh the Dean was Warren had tech issues I don't know if you saw that well his in ears were messed up yeah so it was like the wrong time so he just he was singing off time and then he just took his in-year out and recovered he said he could hear the echo like that's what his the wasn't going on in his in-year he was hearing like an echo like three times yeah that's in-year I mean that's that's tough yeah yeah well you know who crushed Tyler the creator incredible performance from him incredible performance from Lady Gaga incredible performance from the diva herself Addison Rae and I just want to highlight a little of you Dean again because I feel like I don't know how long she's been out this but I feel like she's had 10 hits in the last six months and deserves every single like accolade she's influenced a culture of kitten heels and like fashion from I don't but eras she like inspired by bossa nobys she's like French like she's just like there's something that's so classy and just timeless about her music welcome back Nora Jones thank you I was okay I have me too well we also have all of the press tours for weathering heights no margarabi I don't know how actors partners do it because I'm like I know did you do you fall in love did you see that hot ass magazine spread that they did where it's like him and they're between each other's legs she talks about him if she was just like I think more people should lean in when she's like it was raining and he covered my face from like the set rain or whatever she's like I said that was the most romantic thing anyone has ever done for me and I'm like you're a poor husband is sitting at home being like there's stars barn with a Bradley Cooper and Lady Gaga right what was the show with the Jessica's chest in oh no there are scenes from scenes from a marriage it was a TV show remake of the England Margarabi anyone but you Whitney Sweeney and Whitney and Glenn Paul baby girl Whitney Sweeney and Glenn Glowl yeah those guys press tours you were just like God their love there's like oh my God and like you think you're like oh oh they're married with someone else like the caressing in the speaking you really have to have a great therapist and really be secure in your relationship to have these people do the press that they do with each other and really just talk about their obsession and their connection it's like they're just co-dependent on each other they got each other the rings that was like forever and always or whatever like that's what I wonder like I'm like if like Olivia Jade or like uh Margot Robbie's husband just like my hot like you know what I mean like I'm just like because you have to be used to this by now right I'm like Margot Robbie is one of the hottest people forever yeah that I'm just like everybody wants to see her with whoever she's co-starring with or wants to see her like with anybody yeah no the amount of therapy I would need if Danny was co-starring with Margot Robbie I would and her I feel like I've been clip by three right feel like the scene of Margot talking about her husband and maybe it wasn't even on this press tour but she was like yeah you know he was an extra and Harry Potter well her husband is also he's like the one of the kids that got pushed out of the way in the third Harry Potter you know what that would be enough for me too that would be enough for me too Margot Robbie's husband is like the executive producer like they co-run a production company yeah yeah and that Sydney Sweeney and her fiance member he was like also produce ex fiance sorry sorry but they were like also working together so there's so many like do they know is this part of the process are they in on it? it's gonna be pulling in yes why not lean in? part of the marketing you do a chemistry read with someone for a reason I think go for it I think anyone but you showed that it's like that what happens if the partner's not in on it yeah well it's I mean singing in the rain kind of takes you behind the scenes there where it's like they were you know had a fake relationship yeah sorry you're completely like Mary let's talk right now no yeah let's talk about singing in the rain I love it great film anyway there were a ton of reality TV stars out the weathering heights which is very fascinating are you on that x oh yes yeah she had a ring people are sitting this is the most frustrating I think coverage of women on red carpets it's like they're wearing an outfit they are in cutie they're wearing fashion they have jewelry they have accessories and like there's only so many fingers that a ring looks good on and like the pointer finger is always like just not gonna be it's not big it's not it's not it's not it's not it's the most indantiest finger exactly and so like the fact that some people and maybe she is secretly engaged and we don't know and like you know more power to use it and so sslay but like sometimes I think it's It's just women wearing jewelry and everyone's like, oh my God. We got dressed up for an event. There's only so many rings that thinks sizes that fit on what finger. And it's just kind of like, just let it be. I think speculating on marriage and whether or not someone's having a baby is like the two most disrespectful things that you could do after a woman just spent who knows how many hours in hair and makeup and getting dressed for you to do all of that and be like, nah, she might have a baby bump. Like she's engaged, like, are you kidding me? Yeah. But there's no way she didn't have that conversation with the person styling her, right? Like she had to know that wearing a ring or a white shirt, she had to do it. Wasn't it like a, it was like a Jim Stone ring. It wasn't like it was like this big engagement ring diamond. It was like, right. But so it's like, it tends to be sometimes even like a nice, like maybe super expensive, but like it doesn't even have to be like a single like engagement ring looking thing for it to be speculation that you're engaged. I don't know. I mean, I have to, I have rings on both my ring fingers so I'd like to announce that I'm married to the moment. I love you. Anyways, Mormon wives, there's some tea popping off. I think they're filming, right? But Latia, they're always filming. Yes. They're all true. And there's a camera, whether it's a tick-tock phone or an actual camera. They're always working. Leanne Taylor's mom is coming for Latia. And she commented. She's from Bachelors fame. Grant. And she's in. And her mom said, she's not a mom or a wife. But she did she like, which that was in response to someone saying that she was going to be on this next season as a cast member. Well, and she's also filming. Yeah, we've, well, I don't know. We know she's a cast member. We've seen her filming scenes. Yeah, there's a huge difference between like someone who is not to use the, you know, friend of quite literally. And it would make sense that Latia would show up. Part of the Hulu family, Bachelonation, they love a crossover. They love that. So I think she is good friends with Leila and Miranda, you know, like a few of the girls. But as a huge difference between that and like being literally a part of the cast, you know, you know, I, right now, I don't think she's in the running to like be, you know, in the intro packages or getting her hair wet. But that is interesting that Taylor's mom is like entering the chat, you know, it's like, oh, is she one of them? Liam, I'm like one of the cast. I mean, like what Liam, like how do you feel about Latia? You know, it's like, she let go of there. Yeah. I never forget when, when Dakota had his thing with Leia and his friend, it was like Leia and took it really hard. And Taylor was like, what's her friend? What? It was Leia's friend. No one know. But I'm just gonna take that hard too. And then I was saying like it was whatever. It was like Taylor was like, it took it hard for a second, and then she was fine, but Leia and was like devastated. Because it was her friend. All right, she lost her friend. Well, I guess Taylor was her boyfriend, baby daddy. Baby, yes. Miranda did defend Latia. And she had a comment where she said, as someone who knows Latia very well, there is so much more to her than y'all know. Legit one of the best people I know. And whether she makes appearances or not, the show is going to evolve because our lives evolve. I'll welcome in parentheses most of whoever joins the ride so long as they are real part of our real lives. Yeah, so she'll be making, she'll be part of it. She'll show up just like some other people show up. I mean, she also said we don't only have relationships with people who are wives and moms. Peace out. So yeah, I mean, I think as these, the main characters, they're all getting these opportunities. You got Taylor, she's the bad charat, went and he's on Broadway. Leila, Jesse, all of them, Michaela, Macy, they're all getting opportunities, they're becoming stars. It's going to be harder and harder to keep these women together as like this friend group. And if the show evolves, they may have to evolve into showing these women's lives and the friends that they have, and then how they occasionally intersect. Because it is crazy, I like season one, it was just like all of these moms on TikTok, live in a new tall, getting together to film TikToks and that was them hanging out. And now all of these women are, you know, like Jesse was just at the Grammys last night. You know, like all of these women are out and doing things and busy. And so it's like, yeah, they can't really make it seem like they're all just hanging out doing TikToks anymore. Like they're their book and they're busy. Far as I know, because big fan love Miranda, but I think that Miranda's friends, what was originally friends with Latia and she's also friends with the other girl, Jean-Chania, the one that Hatt and Kate, Chase's ex. But I'm like, I feel like that's also to like help enrich Miranda's story, because I think even to your point, she wasn't really in the last season. But I'm also like, I don't know, maybe we shouldn't let you bring on friends, because I feel like there's like a lot of like drama that's just not going to be able to be like fully shown. I think I appreciate it. I think we need to like lean off of like the relationship, divorce, drama of it all. Like I feel like you can bring in people that are able to be messy without tearing apart a family. You know what I mean? Like I think it's a good balance. According to Taylor Frankie Paul, she commented about Jean-Chania, the one that was supposedly hooked up with Dakota and was trying to make out with her. She called it. Jean-Chania gave her best shot and still horribly failed with the clown emoji. So. So maybe she's in one scene. You know what I mean? Like that's where I'm like, okay, so am I going to see anything about this story that I was following? So happy to see you. It is crazy. It's a great thing about that. These women now have to face the possibility of friends or more often acquaintances doing things like sleeping with their ex-husband's or you know, mothers, whatever the love. Best friend, what yeah. Simply to get a shot at being on TV. That's. And no doubt that happens. A hundred percent. That's what I said. I was like, I kind of feel like it's a, the thing I liked about secret lives in Mormon wives. What I do like is that this is a real group of friends. And it's like they show up for each other where I don't want to see a bunch of random people that want to get on television that are willing to cut these women just to have a storyline, which may end up on the cutting room floor anyways because we're about two years behind when it comes to the seasons coming out. Yeah, that is good. You know what I mean? Like Jean-Chania, nobody's talking about her, but she was everywhere on my free page for a minute there. So, you know, I'm interested. Well, to wrap it up, next gen LA is filming. Has anyone been confirmed on that? Have they been confirmed or is this a sauce? Sophia, Mianzki, Nick Dubrow, and Mason Grammar have been seen filming with cameras. And I believe someone also from Love Island, I didn't recognize the name, but is also in one of the shots filming something. Mm-hmm. I'm, okay, hot take, but I am getting kind of tired of this where it's just like I feel like I'm introduced to somebody that I, sorry, don't care about on like a TV show and a reality TV show and then they're showing up on another show. And it's just like, the authenticity of it just drives me nuts. What do you mean? Like, for example, seeing Chris from Perfect Match being on Vanderpump Rules or like there was somebody else, I just watched. You're saying network hopping as well. Yeah, like I just like watched another show recently or even like Marciano now on Secret Lives and Mormon Rives from Vanderpump, like I'm just like this, like I saw you two years ago on a reality TV show. Oh, Yemen. I'm watching Love Island All Stars right now. And Yemen is from last season of Temptation Island is one of the Love Island USA guys that like they, they, they, yeah, but I mean, you know, one, there's only so many people who are willing to do some of the things that are required on reality TV. And then for all your misses, you do have some wins. Rob, Cher Har on Traders was a, I believe a, yeah, but like Traders is a show that's like already based off of bringing other people from like different networks. So it's like I prepared for that. Oh, but I, for example, like you're, you know, it's just like, I don't believe that like Chris has been a struggling waiter when he was also going on perfect match. Yeah, that's, that's true. But when he's the other way around, I'm just like him going on perfect. Like you just sometimes, yeah, you get your Chris's and you people aren't excited about it. They're not. It's just a hot take. I don't think it's a job. You have your robes where it was like he was, he was in the, what was he was a, he was love Island, but he was closer more and then he was on the, he was more than he came back. But that's the same show, same network. But a lot of people don't even like that. And even Traders still same network. So I'm like, it's not that crazy to you. You just don't, you don't want them going different. I don't like the idea of you doing it. You want to tell me that this man, you're a streamer loyalist. I don't want you, no, I don't want you telling me that this man is struggling as a waiter. And DC had, but then has already had opportunities to try to like win money or to do go on these shows. And then it's like, I'm a struggling actor. I just don't buy it. This guy was on perfect match, which is not exactly like one of the more premier shows, specifically for men, if they're looking to make money from reality TV, being a mid-tier character on perfect match isn't exactly gonna make it rain. So I believe very much that he could be struggling. Second, you know, and men in the reality TV space often make way less money. Well, he's got another thriving business as well. I'm just saying. I'm just saying. That's why I'm like, it doesn't work for him. It's not hard to believe that he's struggling. But it's not hard for me to believe that he can't find other ways to make money knowing that he is. So I'm just like, you're not, it's just this whole like, your belief in watching Vanderpump is to believe that the only way they can be on Vanderpump is because they need the money. Because I feel like they're actually employed, they're not employed there for in hopes of being on a TV show. I will say. I will say. The OG cast got too famous. They're like, okay, we got to switch gears because no one's gonna be able to do it. And now we're following our lives at home and like our events and our book launches and all of our other things that were the way. To the point Angelica also did watch what happens live and she was like, none of us are famous. Like we didn't come here for the fame. But it's also like some of you guys kind of did come here for the fame. And Angelica, how many followers do she have? And then I found out she has like 100 and something that's in dollars. So, but pulling across. Yeah, but super authentic. Well, all right, Justin, you wanna wrap it fire some ultimate girls trip headlines please. Yes, please. It's a lot. Amazing. Alexi and Apolla and Marty Saul were spotted filming in Miami. Move. Also Melissa and Joe Gorga. Alex McCord flew from Australia to New York to film the Rooney portion. Let's go. Jennifer Aiden and Vicki Gumbelson both dress up as Taylor Swift at the final party at Bluestone Manor, which is Durinda. Gorge Halloween. Gertie, Abura and Julia were not seen at Miami as part of the cast. So people think that they're not part of the next season cast. Oh, they're replacing them with the Haitian mortician. Exactly. And then finally, this is an ultimate road trip. But original Rooney cast has allegedly signed a contract with E to shoot their own show. I don't understand this headline because the headline was like rival network. Cast effects from Bravo, yeah, that's what. But the key is owned by NBC. And it's all under the NBC peacock family. It will still be streaming on peacock if assuming they put it on a streamer. You think so, yeah. I'm out of candy. We'll still be doing reunions. Well, I think this is Bethany Frankl. That's a good question. Also brought this back up. But they were Rooney legacy, which was last season of ultimate girl's trip was supposed to be its own show. That was the concept. And then allegedly because of money, they made it a one season. There's clearly some separation with Bravo. And I don't know all that all works. But it's definitely like, it's not like they went to Fox or Netflix. That had been fascinating if they were like signed with Netflix, you know, with the members only club. So, you know, very housewives coded. Most of them are in first saw. And I was like, oh, I wonder if Netflix signed them. Because that would spark weight. Alas, it's just exclamation point. Exclamation point. Well, all right. Well, let's get into some traders up next. We have Sandra from season two, also from survivor lore, two time winner of survivor. Two time winner. And the very successful faithful in the castle during her time. She is with us to help break down all the shenanigans of this most recent episode of traders, which was a, oh, another good one. We also have Jam Jam coming up after Sandra to talk about his unceremonious exit. That is all coming up next. It's officially the month of love. And we know you want to celebrate with the one you love most. Your dog celebrate the one you love most by giving them the best highest quality ingredients with Oli. And yes, it's the kind of meal dogs actually get excited about. It's real fresh food that they'll love and devour, which is the best way to show them you love them every day. Because if they're giving you everything, the least we can do is make them a really good dinner. Tailor meal plans to meet your dog's specific needs, perfectly portioned meals and mess free packaging. 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Their clarity serum is a product that I remember. I showed my esthetician and she was like, oh my gosh, this is an amazing product. Please keep using it. And it truly is. It is something that I use every single morning and night. Everything that ClearStim is doing is just knocking it all out of the park. So discover the ClearStim difference because ClearSkin changes everything. Go to clearstim.com slash V-I-A-L-L-L and use code V-I-A-L-L at checkout for 15% off your first order. That's C-L-E-A-R-S-T-E-M. dot com slash V-I-A-L-L and code V-I-A-L-L for 15% off. Sandra, welcome to the show. Thank you for having me. Super excited to have you. Someone obviously with your pedigree two time survivor winner. Did I get that right? You got that right. You got that right. Hi. Thanks for making sure we got the accolades correct. Also, you were in season two of traders and had a very successful run on that as well. And you're currently on the Fox show extracted, right? Correct. Episode two will be on tonight at 8 p.m. on Fox. Oh, period. Check that out. So if you're listening to this now, it's on Hulu now. Well, last episode of traders was another good one and filled with a lot of a little bit of controversy. We now have some of the traders arguing online. Recently released from the castle was jam jam in Lisa Renner. Curious Sandra, how do you overall, what are you appreciating at about this season and then the overall gameplay? And I'd love to get your read on, I guess, really Rob's approach to turning on the other two traders. I think Rob's doing a great job. I wish somehow when he started thinking he was going to get rid of Lisa that he would have talked to Candice about it, I think it would have been easier to get her on board or at least let her know, hey, if I hear her name again, come up or if I feel like a lot of people are going to vote for her, I'm going to have to go that way as well. Maybe then they wouldn't have the issues that they're going to have now. You think Rob should have gone to Candice and given her her heads up. I just assumed that Rob didn't do that because he's heard so much about like the housewives bond and their closeness and I never go against a housewife. I'm just not shocked to assume that he just thought that wasn't even a possibility, but you still would have tried to figure out a way to do that. Absolutely because if you think back to after that monumental challenge, they went to go grab food and Candice told Lisa, Johnny's coming for you hard. So she's being talked about again, and started with Monet, then it was Ron, then it was several people have been talking about her. So it's not like her name is an out there Colton said her name. So if he would have just said like, listen, I'm trying to change a couple of things, but if your name keeps coming up and the majority of the people, it sounds like are coming for you, especially after Jam Jam said your name about the kids. When he got murdered, there's nothing I can do. That to me is a heads up. Like you already know where my heads are. If they're going to talk about you at the round table, I'm right in your name down. It does seem like Rob is, I mean, he's like leading the charge against Lisa. Oh, he's like, when there's two different stories, it's either I don't know or they really would seem like he was. Yeah, it was because it was going to go Natalie and then he's waited. Would you have done anything differently if you were in Lisa's shoes at the round table? It's so hard to convince people that you're not a trader at any round table. Like how do you really prove you're not a trader? All you can do is argue your way out of it. I mean, she could have kept going hard on Natalie because that's where people were or even went back to Colton. But the damage was done once Jam Jam started saying, Lisa kissed me and then she said she didn't. Again, that's the same thing Rob said. The same story, but you know, the different outcomes. Somebody's lying. Jam Jam said she kissed them. She said I didn't kiss them. Maro said she kissed them. You know, Durinda said she didn't kiss them. So, you know, who's selling the truth? Do you almost feel like she should have just been like, yeah, I kissed him. So what? I kissed everybody. Yeah. And that's easy. You know, it's kind of easy to explain because so much is happening at that black banquet that how do you remember what all you did and didn't do? Yeah. That's what I would say. Like, man, I can't even tell you what I had on my plate to eat. Yeah, I've been so on edge. I've been looking at everybody else. I don't even remember. Yeah, that's true. I feel like the traders being like, no, I didn't. I know I didn't. I feel like if the traders were working better together, I feel like Rob should have been the one who were the jewelry. He could have easily pulled it off. It is Shion. It does feel like the one with the most heat wore the thing. But she got that first. But that's not even what she got like in trouble for. Like nobody said anything about the broach. It was all about the kiss that she, like, she pulled it off. Still, I just think it had been really easy for Rob if he was wearing that jewelry. And it was a ballroom night anyways to like people would have noticed. A lot of people had jewelry on like Colton had pearls on or whatever. I feel like Lisa could have been a start. She, if I were her, I would have started touching other people's jewelry on the whole of the day with her. You just walk in with the broach unclassed and then like jiggle where it falls to the ground and hope whoever is there to pick it up and hand it to you. But it's kind of what she did. She was like, oh, it's poking me like. Have a look. It's a scene. I mean, she got away with it. She did get away. Well, you don't want the wrong person to touch it because for instance, if someone's potentially going to get banished, you don't want that person to be the one. You want someone that's really, I mean, she picked Jam Jam which was kind of messed up. It's set Natalie up as in, we know there's a traitor in the turret. You're the last gamer left. So it has to be you. Lisa had to wear the broach because she already had heat on her. There's no way Rob being a man's man was going to wear that. That was overalls. That broach on his overalls. Candace didn't want to get any heat on her because no one has said her name. So it had to be Lisa. So Rob was obviously pretty upset that Candace wrote his name down. I almost was thinking maybe that was pretty smart by Candace to protect herself because it kind of seemed like Rob had fully decided to turn on both of the traders. And since Candace was the one pretty adamantly defending Lisa, he could then be like, well, who's the one defending Lisa? I certainly wasn't. This was but now that Candace wrote Rob's name down, it's a little riskier for Rob. I feel like to go after Candace because her writing that his name down almost connects the dots of her being angry at Rob is retaliation. Or am I thinking too much? In my opinion, you're thinking too much simply because Candace is a kind of person where whatever name she writes down at the round table, she sticks to it, round table after round table after round table. So it's not going to be such for anyone to see her continue to write down Rob's name simply because she did that with Ron. It was like whoever she, whoever's name was on her slate, that's what she's going to continue with. So if she continues chasing Rob regardless, no one I think is going to think twice about it. Like it's not going to be a big deal. He doesn't like it because his name is out there and you never want that. But I don't think it's such a big deal. Why do you feel like she didn't just stick with Natalie and be like, you know, sorry, Natalie, I still just like think it's you. Well, she was already mad when he wrote down Lisa's name last week. She threw food at him in the kitchen. She was like, you must have saw love. So she's not happy. They did have a good thing. But since how do you trust someone that throws your name out there? We saw this last season with Carolyn and Danielle. It's the damage is done. How do you forget that you know they're going to constantly continue until one of us is gone. And it's going to be you or it's going to be me. Yeah. It's just kind of a, it's the initial sign of like listen, I'll be loyal until I can't, until it doesn't serve me. Right. And then once your name's thrown out there, you really, it's just a reminder that like no one's on any one side, but their own. Yeah. And going back to Lisa, I remember Rob to her in the turret. Your name is being said. So he gave her a heads up and then she heard it for herself. Candace heard it for herself. So it shouldn't be like anything out of this world that he wrote her name down. He should have just gave them a heads up. You probably can't answer this. But is there anything stopping you from kind of like dropping something that Lisa could have like shifted it onto Rob in some way on her way out? Yeah. Or on her way out or even at the round table where she could be like, just look out. Like there's still a snake among you or something like that or just try to, to be like, you know what Rob now that you're coming at me, like you're actually pretty suspicious yourself. I mean, she could have done a lot of things. I don't know the rules of the traders because they're given additional rules once they're picked that we don't see. I don't even know how many pages it is. You're right. Like if you take me out and you're a trader and you really stabbed me in the back and I didn't even see it coming then somehow on my way out, I'm going to definitely try to give some kind of clue. But you have to be careful not to go against the rules. And I like and be like, and Rob, you did look just as good in that cloak as you do in these overalls. I must say. Or I'm a snake, but I'm not the biggest snake in all of these. But to your point, Sandra, they must have some rules. I was thinking about watching it because clearly like, you know, Jam Jam was like, it's Lisa. It's Lisa. There was in the air did. So I'm assuming he didn't go against any rules. And that's a vastly different than a trader who got turned on for Lisa to go to know who the traders are. And you literally would ruin the entire game and the show. So I imagine there's a lot of rules that they have to follow. I remember the minute Fadre gave her back to Kate gave her back to Fadre at the roundtable and they started going against each other. And she was like, you're going to learn today. I was like, you know, like you get these hints. Like, how is it that you're expecting and you know, for certain she's going to say, I'm a trader, you know, only a trader would know that. But I think Rob's name is already out there. Candace too, because they're saying, what if it's a a terrible housewives? Like, they're both gunning for each other. We got to see who's victorious. I think Rob's going to come out on top. There's way too many people trusting him with the exception of Johnny. What did you think of the whole dagger thing? Did you also think it was Natalie Hulide? Oh, yeah, because when I look back on it, I watched it two times. You can tell when the guys are looking at Rob that they're shaking their head. They're not talking, but they're shaking their head and they're moving their eyes. Kind of confirming, I don't have it. I don't have it. I don't have it. And then he looks to Natalie and there's Natalie standing there like hoping she doesn't give it away. Yet she's not saying like shaking her head. You know, so in essence, I feel like they gave it to him. Colton gave him a reminder, I don't have it. Mark did the same thing, Steven too. Yeah, it's really become a good old boy's club. Yeah, I saw an interesting video. I think it was one that actually Rob commented on and him and Candace kind of went back and forth on. But it was this girl kind of breaking down like on, we saw on Love Island with Rob that he very much chose to be like a guy's guy. And he was, you know, had several chances to stick up for the women or do you know, be on the women's side. But he just like always was there for his bros. And obviously now we're seeing he's got this friendship with Colton. And they're kind of like he's doing it again. Like he could be, you know, in this group with these two women. But he's a guy's guy and he's got to have his bros back. And he commented saying this is actually ridiculous. Candace said, is it? He said it's a game Candace and she ended it with grow up Robby Bobby gaslighting ages you. I'm serious Sandra what you think about this is someone who is a gamer, right? You survivor over the past couple of weeks. It seems like the audience has gotten a little more toxic. Even peacock, you know, PR issued a statement about, you know, online bullying and things like that. But are you just kind of used to fans watching it and forgetting it's a game and taking things personally? But like it does seem a little. I can't help but wonder if like Candace being a housewife. She's just like, this is how we roll and this is how we engage each other online and we talk our shit. And it's a reality TV show, but like we keep the momentum going and Rob's just like, I thought I'm playing a literal game and why is Candace coming at me online and the way that she is. I can see why there's a could be a lot of confusion. But I'm curious from your standpoint, Sandra, someone who is a legit gamer who's been involved in shows like these where you have to quote unquote stab someone in the back. What do you expect or how do you think audiences should respond and how does someone like you deal with an audience reaction that feels a little intense? Well, a lot of times with the audience, like they're seeing it from home. We were there, like that's a for instance, in the castle. I'm not going to hear a conversation and see everything that happened. That's why you realize so much on other people to let you know what they heard and what they said. And then the audience, for example, with me, I said in one of the episodes, like it doesn't matter. A lot of the faithfuls will have to go home before we even probably catch a traitor. But then the fans are home and saying like, no, you're your job there simply to find the traitor. Well, I'm trying to survive this game as well and get to the end. But when it comes to the fans, they're really passionate. And also, yes, there was a lot of things said by P. Cock about be careful and bullying this that in a third, but they have to remember to that Colton for the first two episodes or three episodes is sitting there saying whatever he wants to say. And there's no repercussions. For example, he wrote, I can press people and see how uncomfortable they get. And if I miss my shot, I'll just shoot again. Okay. So why can't he just say and do whatever he wants? But the minute someone says something to him, now it's a whole big Twitter fight. It's good point. It's a great point. Was it after the round table? I forget. It's like he's like, I got a new name in my mouth. It's Stephen. And there's no why behind it. It's just vibes with Colton. It's just, you know, it's and yeah, it was, but Stephen did something. It was the way the way Stephen at the Black Bank with told Johnny to pick a card and then Chris's name like forcing her like, they're looking for any kind of suspicious activity. Yeah, it was also the turkey and the fact that Lisa put all of her gold rocks into his. And the problem is like Colton kind of got Lisa rights. And now he's outburning with his newfound confidence. Yeah. And forgetting all the other misses. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, it would have been great if someone other than Lisa did it, but she did it and she got caught. But for us, it would have been crazy if someone else had actually did it, but they still blamed Lisa. And then she got busted, you know, so yeah, you win some you lose some. But that's the reason they're, they're watching Stephen because although he's oblivious to a lot of things. For instance, when Ron was at the library and Stephen says, well, what are you thinking? And Ron says in front of Durrinda, well, I got two names and he says who and he's like, you're talking to one. So Stephen, you know, those things open your eyes. Am I talking to a trader? You don't know. There's so much chaos in that house in that castle. You don't know what's up and what's down or like Natalie saying, you know, which this is the second time this has happened. Like, yeah, we killed them. We murdered them. We banished it. You know, like, it happens every season peppermint did it on ours. Yeah. Yeah. I wasn't even there to hear it, but when everyone jumped on the bag, wagon, it was like herd mentality. I don't know if it was done last season. I can't remember, but we know Porsche did it episode one. Shocked at Porsche. That's what you don't remember the things you're saying when you're in the hot seat and you're having to explain for instance, with Natalie, she went back, she went to sleep. She tossed and turned all night because she knew she went hard for the antidote and didn't even need it. So now you're like, oh snap. Now I got to go back to breakfast and I got to fix things. And then you still hear people tour three plates down talking about you. Yeah. Be heard, Mark, talking about her mark and was it Johnny? I think so. Yeah. Yeah. I wrote it out. I wrote it somewhere. They were talking about her and she's listening and you can tell in Natalie's face and her eyes are tearing up like girl, you got to fix this quick. I think Rob's going to go the distance. I don't know. It's he seems like he has such a strong coalition of these guys and most of the people who was coalition other than Natalie and now they and Colton are pretty outspoken. But like Mark and Steven pretty quiet. They seem he robs very popular. Is that more on? And it's just like he's he's doing he's doing such a good job of like it's weird. He's giving like the Peter Weber on he was Peter was on your season. Sandra Peter had that's very aggressive faithful strategy where he was just I am hunting for traders. I'm faithful and it was like you it was hard not to believe that he was a trader. And it worked in my favor, especially them shutting the door and saying, well, can you give us a minute? Like why do we have to give five people a minute to chat about what trader? A trader behavior. If they turn against Rob, I'm curious. He'll have to really screw up and he's he's playing a smart game. Oh no, he's he's real quiet. He he watches his words. I don't think they're going to get him. I think he's going to go to the end and I haven't seen spoilers or anything like that. My there's a handful of of faithfuls. He can go to the end and they will think that he's been playing a faithful game. The whole way through. You think it's the face or like the overalls because they might get the same time during the call. Dot more this last round table because she doesn't speak up until somebody is like accused. And then she's like, and then you you back them up. But it's like Rob does the exact same thing. Rob doesn't accuse anybody from the front and then ends up doing the last little queuing. No one's like I think it's a car. I mean listen, he's a great looking guy. He's very quiet and he has no problem being quiet. And he seems to be comfortable in that state. And he he bird learning more and more. He's an he's an intelligent, thoughtful guy. He's intelligent enough to know that people often don't see him as that. And he's leaning into that and playing to it. It also it also seems like he takes time for like each person and like gives them like one on one attention. So that they feel like oh, they have a friendship and they're connected with them. Like I don't remember who was telling us, but that he was he sat down and played chess with a lot of people. A lot of the time him like getting to know Ron him and Colton. You know, I feel like he's just really if you're someone who when you walk into a room doesn't work the room and you're kind of quiet and especially Rob good looking guy. People notice Rob when he walks into a room. And so they're going to notice a guy like Rob not talking to them. But when that individual on a one on one basis as Natalie says makes them feel seen, listens to them. They're like, oh, but he likes me. Yeah. And I feel like with Rob that hits home a little bit more. And I think he's very good at playing that game. And the dagger move was good too. Oh, yeah. Yeah, he's got that double dagger and he's got three weeks to use it. And so when he's in a pickle, I don't see how he doesn't go the distance. Oh, no, he's got it. He's got it in the pocket. He does. Yeah, I actually agree with you though, Nick. I think that Candice made a brilliant move by putting Rob's name down. And I think that he actually has to it forces him to stick by her. Because if then she goes home, they're going to think back to that rogue vote and be like Rob. Maybe she was giving us a song. That's it. I mean, I'm curious because I'm thinking if I'm Rob right now, Sandra, I'm immediately going after Candice. It's just like I'm going to double down and be like, you know, why was Candice defending Lisa? I was just blah, blah, blah, blah. Let's say that happens and they vote Candice out and she's like, I'm a traitor. To Leia's point, Sandra, does that like, could that potentially put a target on Rob's back? And a way he doesn't have a target now. Yes, especially if she keeps writing down his name. But also he can simply just say like the housewife's sick together, I would go to Candice and I would say listen, water under the bridge, let's move forward. You knew her name was out there. You were trying to save her. There was no saving her. They were out for blood. Somebody had to go. Somebody had to be given up. She was already out there. But Candice can say, well, you know, housewives never write each other's names out whatever. That's that philosophy. Now they're going to have to work together because I would say listen, I won't say your name no more. You won't say mine and let's, you know, let's win this thing together. But if she keeps on about it, then I would go after her and then I take out Dorenda too. I'd murder Dorenda. If I was Rob, I would push to murder Dorenda so that now Candice doesn't really have someone else. Like, you know, she's there with the housewives. I would take Dorenda from her. But then that goes against his turretful of housewives thing that he's trying to plant. No, because that can still, I mean, we still have her. Then we'd have to pick off between Natalie and Candice. It's easy to say like, you know, it's got to be Natalie because all the other gamers are gone and they were all faithful. And or maybe it's Candice and it was a turretful of housewives, which he already said, a turretful of housewives. Well, Sandra, this has been a lot of fun breaking this all down with you. It's great to get your insight on stuff like this with someone with, especially with your pedigree. Remind the audience of where they can follow you, enjoy everything that you're doing, Sandra. Well, I'm on Instagram, sassy, as DT. That's pretty much where I'm at. Like, nobody's really on Facebook anymore, right? I'm not on Twitter. If you guys are following me on Twitter, that's the wrong account because I'm not on Twitter. No, I think Instagram is everything. All right, Sandra. Well, appreciate you taking the time and helping us break this all down. Please come back soon. You guys take care. All right, take care, Sandra. I was so heated when I watched that last episode. I called Leah immediately and I was like, I, Rob's going down. I'm sorry. I hope I hope people see the real Candice, the Candice from Potomac. She's going to come sniper with her words. Yeah, she might. I can settle for Rob not winning. Basically, you're saying you don't realize. I don't think he knows what he just ignited. I don't think he realizes that Candice is really smooth. And even the vote, that way it keeps bringing up. That within itself, she knows what she's doing. I think he was insurance. I think she knows exactly what she's doing. I think that Rob is in a tough spot now because if he does turn against her, people are going to be like, she dropped us a hint. Well, I mean, Sandra, maybe he follows Sandra's advice, which is to not turn against her. I agree. Just say, yo, we had to. Also, this turretful of housewives things isn't even like, because Donna Kelsey was a traitor. So for all they know, she wasn't the secret traitor, but nobody knows that she was the secret traitor. Other than wrong. Oh, yeah, that's true. That's true. Yeah, I think I just take it to personal. I'm like the MJ from seasons ago, or I'm like, you come for anybody. I'm automatically not your team. I was a girl forgetting voted off of like not watching our words. The amount of time to be like, we murdered somebody. Oh, fuck, here I go. Yeah, I'm off the show. I like Rob being messy. I like Rob too, but not housewives. Play a smart game. Yeah, like you can't really do. I find it really annoying that he's besties with Colton, which means Colton's gonna stick around. Yes. Unless, but maybe Candace pulls one. It's Colton off. Piss is Rob off. And then that's what makes them clash. I mean, clearly they're not on good terms today. No, that's, you know, that's an interesting thought. You know, if you're Candace, yeah, it's almost like, if Rob goes to Candace and says, hey, I had to, but I'm still united with you. I mean, listen, if my name gets thrown out there, you're gonna have to do what you have to do, but let's stop that from happening. If I'm Candace, I'm like, sure, but I'm like, we're voting out your boy. We're voting out your boy. Yeah. Give me one. Yeah, give me one. But to prove your loyalty. Yeah, prove your loyalty. Vote out your boy, because right now, you're building a coalition with your friends, and you're leaving me on an island. So if it's like... Actions speak louder than words right now, and she has no reason to trust you. The person I want to hear from the most right now is Jam Jam. So... Bring them on. Let's bring on. Let's do a clap with McNaggit. Jam Jam, clap on three with me. Please, ready? One, two, three, clap. Just one. Perfect. Jam Jam, welcome to the show. Hi, thank you so much for having me. Oh my God. I cannot believe this is finally happening. Oh, well, us too. We're very excited to have you. First of all, very sad to see you, Gail. You were so just delightful to watch and fun and enjoyable. And to see you just your chair ripped from that table. It was so dramatic. Yeah. I wasn't going to go any other way. Even if I was murdering the side of the confessional, I was going to rip that door and like walk into the halls on screen. How did you feel watching it back, knowing that you were right about Lisa, but wrong about what it actually was that got you killed in the first place? Well, it made me feel stupid a little bit, obviously. Why? You got it. You got it right. But I did get it right. It's about the whole idea of understanding how people change and shift. And I thought and I knew and I perceived that Lisa's interaction with me has changed. So as soon as I found out it was me and I was like, it had to be her because it's the only person that I was like worried about something happened. That makes a lot of sense because she clearly did target you. And then she has to think about, all right, how do I kill this guy? And she has to come up with her story and she talked, you know, like her, someone's wrong with her pendant. So while you maybe got that wrong, you clearly must have felt that she was like very focused on you for a brief period of time in a way that someone else wasn't. Exactly. I mean, and they show some of that, right? They show some of me saying, you have a spark in your eye that it's different. If you know anything about my survivor journey at the end, people underestimated me the whole time. And the one thing I knew always was when they were licensed to me, right? Because I have this thing that I know if people are like, if I know them enough, I know if they're changing. So I describe it on survivor as you lose the sparkle in the eye when you're talking to me. But in her case, I never seen House. If I knew about Lisa from NASA with the stars and all her, like, you know, career, the way she interacted with me then seemed like more than normal. Now afterwards, it's like, it was like she was acting to me. It was what was happening in her eyes. She was looking at me in a way that was this character of Lisa Fockin-Rina. Instead of the Lisa Rina that I have, get to know all these weeks and love. I saw a screen grab and maybe it's fake news, but to me, it looked like you are the one who kissed Lisa on the cheek. Wait, this is again of me saying I said she kissed me. But I wasn't able to tell you. It's whatever. I'm like that, you know. I mean, it's as good as getting me into troubles in other places of my life. But there's that, what's I mean? I feel like I'm stupid. I'm just trying to fight it. So here's the thing. Here's the thing. I understood that the banquet was supposed to be a celebration of life. That's how I was described the banquet was to be. And me, Paranon, I asked on questions and he was like, no, don't worry. But I mean, I wasn't specific. I was the question, but I should have known better that something was going to go down there. So when I saw everybody dressed up because we haven't seen each other in the whole day, you know, we're walking into the banquet hall and blah, blah, blah. And I was honestly really excited to see her because we key, key, we, you know, we ride together in the cars. We always try to have fun. She was like my caroline in the castle because people there were like, I feel like a lot of them were not authentic with me, but I felt like she was. So when I saw her, it was my natural like, oh my god, I can't believe I get to see you. You're a racing dress, bring it. Give me a kiss. You know, it's who I am. I connected with the kiss when Alan repeats the phrase because he says it twice. He said it. Then he gives the portions and then he said it again for like a second take. And that's when I realized, I've said the kiss of the curse repeats itself. That phrase was the one that freaked me out. But I already had already happened. They took the portions. Everybody has screamed like that's why I'm so quiet about it. Because at that point, everything was done. And I look at Mark and I say, she kissed me. They said, Kiss me. Are you munchy kiss you? Are you munchy kiss you? I was like, dude, it's a different kind of kiss. It was not the normal kiss like she always gives me in the mornings. But at that point, nobody believed me. So whatever. So what if she was like, oh my god, Jim, Jim, kiss me? As she said that, I mean, she had a chance and she didn't. What you just explained might have answered that question, but you obviously, Nally was one of the people who was adamant that she had to take a potion. And even if you wanted to take a potion, you were like, well, I'm not going to speak up. But like, was there any point while Nally and anyone else was fighting for that potion? Was there an uphard to you that was like, I should speak up here? I think I might be the one getting killed. Or was that only after Alan mentioned the kiss? In terms of me, only after Alan's in the case. But I always was, Jam Jam goes for the shield. Like, even the account of Instagram and social media and everything. Peek-o-Con Trailer. She's like, I always want the shield. I'm a shield hungry. Why do I have to go for the shield always? Take more. Do everything like extra to get a shield. Because I always thought I was in danger. But at that point in the game, I knew that the half of the faithfuls that work in power call it Johnny, Christian, Eric, Mark, and everybody that grew up setting that Antara, they didn't trust in me. They were not working with me. And this is a numbers game. There's a lot of this game that they don't show regarding numbers. Because they want to make the story about what happens on the round table. But for the first time, they finally show a little bit of strategy of this other group, which is funny because my half of the castle, we were doing this since day one. We were like, we don't need 20 people voting together. We just need nine or eight. And then everybody else is going to gravitate to the numbers. And we did have control a little bit for at the beginning. But then, all everybody in my group started getting murdered. So at that point, I wanted to get some trust of them. So I was like, I need to change my thing. I need to be stuck being so aggressive about this. And I'm going to be a team player. I'm going to decide. I'm going to help them. I'm going to be, you know, everybody's looking at what I'm saying. So I'm trying to, I'm going to say something that is going to bring me some love back to me. Because that's what I'm used to, right? I like people loving me and a little people liking me. So I wasn't used to people just like giving me the cold shoulder about who I was in the castle. And that's why they show when I said to Johnny, grab it and give it to Christian. Because at this point, these guys were standing there for like 10 minutes and nobody was moving. And in my head, all I was thinking is like, this is basically like an idol and survivor. It's like, if I just stand up and run and get it, who's going to stop me? And I go like, somebody needs to go get it. Why are they waiting so much? And because I knew what needed to be done. That's why I still to Johnny, give it to Christian. Because Christian was very outspoken. I needed Christian to like me. I felt like Christian was like the leader of the pack. And she was the one that, she wasn't one that told me what point. I don't think you're a trader, but I just don't trust you. And it hurt me. It hurt me. And I was like, I need this girl to like love me back. And that's why I didn't, I was not that person. If you look back at it, I'd look so stupid. I look so quiet. I wasn't even having fun. I was like, whatever. These people hate me. Whatever. They think I'm an asshole. Whatever. They think I'm a trader. But the traders are not going to kill me because they think I'm a trader. And the faithfuls are not going to kill me because they just want me because they want to manage me later. Whatever. So at that point, I was like, what can I do? And that's why it wasn't the person I was at the beginning. Well, who did you think was the best dressed at the banquet? Besides yourself, of course. Oh my god. Maura. Hello. Yeah. Maura with her like gold chest and plate and hat. I remember it's funny because I remember some point she was getting dressed and I was like behind her. Because I thought she was a trader. Jam Jam, if you were close with Lisa and you kind of felt like all the faithfuls were against you, what made you want to have their back at the end and go out saying that giving them a tip. Oh, because I'm very competitive. I'm a bad fuck everywhere. So, um, I, it was my honest reaction. And if you see, I started saying you're really like subtle. And then they were questioning me at this point. They're dragging me out. This two-inch man dragging me out on kicking and screaming like being like super loud. And this people are still like, what do you said? Are you sure? Why do you mean a kiss? I was like, why would I be saying something different? I was like, just believe me. It was a kiss. It was a kiss. I mean, of course, it wasn't a kiss. But it was her. And I was just giving my last aura. And it's so, I love that. I love that. Whatever. Were, how surprised were you to find out that Candace and Rob were the other two traders? So, I found out that the three of them were at the same time. I couldn't believe it. I couldn't believe it. I could not believe it. At that point, I didn't have a lot of suspicion on Lisa. And I did tell her that I before the banquet, maybe in my like having fun kind of thing. You know, Lisa described she was spanking Rob at some point. Like, I was like the one with her, giving her the stick to spank Rob. They leave the other people. They were naughty for voting for her. And when we were end up laughing, and I say like, I just can't believe they did that. Because it's not like, I don't think you're a trader, but I don't think you're high up there. How stupid. Knowing that Rob was a trader, I mean, can you just like, you mentioned that they're kind of showing a little of that strategy. And it seems like behind the scenes, these past couple episodes, the Colton, Rob, Stephen, Mark, and some of these other people have this little boys club. Is that a strong? Is it appears? Is it intense? Is it appears? Or do you feel like they could be turning on each other sooner than later? No, I think it was real. It was definitely a boys club. And I remember walking into a conversation in the library with Kristen and Mark. And Kristen asked Mars, when did this thing start to happen? And obviously, I didn't know what she was talking about. I was like, what do you mean? I was like, no, no, this man doing leading the thing. And I was like, well, I think it happened when, you know, I was and she goes, I'm not you. I don't think it's you. It's not about you. But yeah, it was a real thing in the castle. I just feel that I was close to them, you know, because Natalie was also part of it. It's just that they don't never say Natalie in that group. But maybe in so close to Natalie and the boys, like my two people that I trusted the most were Natalie and Rob. When I found out he was Rob, I was like, oh my god, this asshole, he better wins. Fuck the faithfuls. They're a fucking mess. Rob needs to win. And that's it. All I wanted. Rob's so good. He's beauty. He's so handsome. No, he's really chill. I know, I don't know about the love island, how he was. Apparently he was like a villain in love island. I didn't know that. He really connects with people in a very quiet, reserved way. You know that they describe, Ron and Rob's relationship. I think he had that with a lot of people. He had that with me too. He just made sure to connect with people. And they always showing him playing chess. And now that I go back the night that I go murder, he wanted to play chess with me. Oh. I felt like it was one of his multiple tools to connect with people because it's a very intimate setting. And he would do that all the time. Have you spoken to Michael Rappport? He'd be in me. He's in this TV phone. Something like that. And I like that comment, but it was so late. I think I was hanging out. And the next morning I woke up. And I was reviewing my messages and I realized he was thin. And I was like, well, I didn't realize this was you. I wish you the best and your family. And then he said the same and the same. There you go. Jam Jam, I appreciate you taking the time. It was such a pleasure watching you. So much fun. Hey, see you, girl. You were loved here. And we hope to see more of you on TV. And when you're ever in LA, please stop and say hi and come home in the studio. Yes, yes. Thank you so much. It was a blast talking. Jam Jam, where can people follow you? Support you all that fun stuff. Well, you can always follow me on Instagram at Jamil PR. That's why I am I LPR or my website jangangpr.com. And cameo. Oh my God. Oh, yes. That's a birthday wish. Yeah. Oh my God, I can compete with a lot of people that I cannot compete against Carly and Wiggher. She does like 15 minutes cameo's good for her. Wow. That's a lot. Does she? God bless her. Jam Jam, thanks again, man. We appreciate you. Bye. That's a lot. Lots of love. Lots of love. He's so fun. What a delight. Yeah, absolutely. He won Survivor too. Yeah, he was best friends with Carolyn who was on Trader's last season. And they were such a delight to watch. They had the best. They still have a really beautiful friendship but they were so fun to watch on Survivor. And then he won. Well, we're going to. All right. Well, we have switching to Potomac. A well-built wardrobe is about pieces that work together and hold up over time. That's what Quince does best. Premium materials thoughtful design and everyday staples that feel easy to wear and easy to rely on even as the weather shifts. Quince has the everyday essentials that I love with quality that last organic cotton sweaters. 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It was a big episode for Potomac care and huger was released from prison. She had a sit down with Andy. First of all, I just want to say I've become quickly a care and huger fan. Yeah. Just a dynamic TV personality. Yeah. Yeah. She also looked so good coming out of prison. You said this on-plus. But yeah. But Andy sat down with her and had the, you know, conversation we've all been curious of him having with her. Which was mostly centered around you obviously the arrest and what she thought about it. But certainly touched on, you know, whether she thinks she deserves another chance on reality TV. And it certainly brings up an interesting conversation around, you know, with we've talked about traders, we've talked about some of the discourse going on by some of the cast and, you know, certainly we believe that people deserve second chances in life. But again, the question is it's like, where do you draw that long, you know? But it's also reality TV that is casting willing participants and quite frankly a lot of people aren't willing to expose their lives. On TV and the way that many of these housewives do. It's really interesting. It was interesting also to hear her talk about like living in prison and just the shock of being there and her schedule and the fact that she said that she was on her period so that she could get pads to line the seat of the toilet. Karen has a mentor too, just to the younger girls. Like I feel like that was a beautiful and caring side of the perspective for her. I also appreciated Andy's style of interviewing and the sense that it's a tough situation that she's talking about. She obviously just came out of prison. I feel like he handled it very well, delicately. But at the same time, it was like, okay, you're being like, I don't have an issue with alcohol and then being like, well, we've had four run-ins. Like, you know what I mean? Like being very like, we can't say one thing without the other, which was kind of what I was worried about where it was like, is it going to be kind of like a puff piece? It seemed to own it. She did. But what was the saying key? She considers herself, I don't know, this isn't exactly how she said it. So it's not verbatim. But she's just like someone who will always be in recovery, whether that's for like alcohol or prescription. Which honestly, I kind of appreciate that answer. We talk about this all. I mean, like the way words have been buzzed up, so to speak, or lost their meaning, or just how labels get used against us and weaponize against us. It almost sounds like a cliche, but I totally get it though. You know, she just has to find a way to take that ownership that doesn't maybe feel so heavy and shameful the way, you know, that word has maybe been used against people. It makes sense. I appreciate it because it's realistic. You know what I mean? Like she's not sitting here being like, oh, I'm a changed woman. Like, oh, like I would never make another mistake again. And I think that that's what the accountability is for her being like, hey, like I've made mistakes, but I'm not going to sit here and say that I'm a perfect person or I'm a healed person. But I'm always in progression to getting there, you know, what she all are. Certainly seems like she was rested up for her appearance back on TV because the preview for the reunion was serving a lot. Karen versus Wendy. Let's fucking go. She said the grandum is back. This is my stage. That is the grandum. Have y'all been staying in line? Because I've got things to say to you and I cannot wait. And she looked phenomenal. Oh, it was also, it was interesting watching Andy show her the clips from the previous reunion too. I mean, like what do you think of like, what Ashley said or what she said? And her being like, yeah, what Ashley said that, she can rest that one. Yeah, that was it. That's true. There was a clip of them showing Wendy saying something the effect of an unparaphraising, but like when you're in the valley, you don't know what you're capable of, which I took as when times are bad or desperate, which kind of sounds like in... Confession? Confession? Which I believe is why the grandum is like, shut your mouth. Yeah. You talk too much. And that's your problem. Yeah. You know what I mean? Because that's, I think, even Karen, Jizal tried to get her to say a couple of things when she was in, when she was originally released from being arrested on the last season. She was like, I'm not saying anything. Like you keep trying to like get me to talk to you about things. That's for my lawyer. Yeah. I won't address anything. Well, what's the, you know, anything could be used against you in the court of law. And as those people aren't mic'd up with cameras for quite a while. I was going to say, especially in housewives. Yeah. And the, you know, the court of law is no stranger to Bravo footage. Plus, it's going to say Teresa, do you dice? Erica, Jane, I'm rewatching you because for Sean. Well, not only it's a confession, it's a, there's a motive there. The motive is time is red. You know, I, I needed it. I was desperate. Right. It's like, you were in the valley. You don't know. People do desperate things. It's next episode of Potomac reunion part one. Yeah. Oh. Okay. Let's get it. I have a feeling this reunion is going to go down in history. Let's get it. We also had an episode of the Roehl Halswives of Beverly Hills. And we have a rapid recap. If you missed it, Eric Conradjolzo are not fucking with Amanda because she reminds them of an airline attendant from the 60s. Calvertures wears a pair of jorts with a blazer, which could mean nothing. But she also doesn't think Doreet meant to disrespect Amanda son by getting mad at her for shit talking. And then she threw a stray by comparing Amanda to crystal reference that is uncalled for. And then sportsman like conduct on the play justice for crystal. Bose invites her childhood friend summer to hang out and talk about the divorce with Doreet and Kyle. But then Mo shows up right as Doreet asked Kyle if there's a chance they would ever get back together. This is the diva that loves a chaotic cameo. Also apparently Amanda was in a cult question mark question mark which could explain a lot actually needless to say. The girls are intrigued. Also Rachel Zofoud for divorce from her husband and does not want spousal support. Kyle gets emotional seeing the old house for the first time because she misses her old life in dinner for Erica and Doreet's birthday. Amanda said she was verbally accosted by Doreet. How will she react to that? We'll find out next week. I love how she said accosted and was like wait, wait, wait, let me Google and make sure that that is the word. Did you know? Did you use that? Did you use that? It's called that out. Kyle Richards comparing Amanda to crystal. Crystal, what was that? That's true. That can be crystal. Wait a minute. Not too much of a girl now. The specific reference is that when crystal was on the show because she has such a good like vernacular. So globular. And she knows definition. She would cite words with definitions. So crystal reposited to being like apparently called just for everybody. That's what I love about her. Yeah. I love her. Yeah. Honestly, good for crystal too. She hasn't put on the show for years and these women love to bring her up every season. She's always on their minds. Yeah. She had like corrected some vocabulary that would have been really fun too. Right. Rachel's though not wanting a spousal support is giving. I make so much more money than him. No, no, no. I don't want to pay a spousal support. Whatever else I don't have to communicate with this person. Yeah. Please. But imagine her being like, oh, I sure I'll meet your friends. And then it's like, this is the way we hear Kyle's story and then Doreen's story. And then Mauricio shows up. What a dramatic dinner for this summer. I definitely felt for Kyle when she was taking the two of Amanda's house. And then Mauricio is just kind of like, why are you emotional? No, first of all, I have an issue immediately with the way that they did the tour. Right. And then she's like, Amanda's like, I'm going to go put the babies to bed. Which is also kind of weird. I know we're filming a show and you guys are going to do a scene to sit here and wait for me to be done. Like, okay. I guess. How long is your bedtime time? I'm sure. And then her husband is like, oh, do you want some water? Like, do you want ice in it? Or whatever? And Mauricio, instead of going to sit with Kyle to be like, oh my gosh, like a moment of private time, while he's getting the drink, Amanda's upstairs to be like, how crazy is this to be in this? He walks with the husband into the pantry to get the water. He also just walked in the house, though. So isn't that just like, don't immediately leave the, I don't know. I don't know. The host. Justin really, really gagged me. I did call Mary because I was watching the scene. In the scene, she's like, yeah, we braised like beautiful daughters in this house. And then he goes, and now you're marrying one. And it called Mary and I was like, oh my god, they just literally admitted. So news flash, I've learned that you can say you're marrying someone. It doesn't mean like you actually are marrying. Yeah. The girl and she's marrying one of your girls. Like marrying off one of your daughters. Yes, yes. Anyway, so we're walking. We're walking to go get drinks. And I get a cough mixed. And I'm from Justin and a Mary. I've gagged. Call me right now. And I was like, what is going on? And then I call me and goes, did you watch Beverly Hills? And I was like, yeah. And I was like, what the hell are you talking about? I miss them. So I was like, I'm also not engaged. But she did wear jorts. When Rachel rolled her eyes about the, the matcha order. And then it's such she was, she gives, what 1960s pan am airline attended. I was like, tell me you don't fuck with somebody. I mean, the nicest way. Every time they flash back to that car ride, where she's on the phone in the middle seat. I'm cringing. It's so I'm like, this is my hell. Because nobody else can talk in the car. And I was and she's like, you know, like, I don't know if the person was on speakerphone, but she's talking like this as if the person is on speakerphone. That's great. Was she not sending a voice memo? That's how I understood it. A 30 minute voice memo. They said she was on the phone for 30 minutes. It sounded, it looked like she was talking as it. I mean, she was switching from to the ear. It's talking here. Also, when you think about the fact that it was, you know, there's a GoPro in the car. They're mic'd. So they're doing a scene. And you're sitting next to Rachel Zo and Erica Jane, who also are very busy business women. But like, I don't doubt that Amanda's very good at business. Right. And she's clearly doing well and has money. But any legitimate conversation that is important to your business, you don't have sitting at the back seat. Yeah. Sitting at the back seat on camera. You say, hey, guys, I'll call you when I get out of the car when I'm alone in my hotel room. Yeah, you don't even say it on speaker. Some people just say, hey, can't talk right now. We'll call you in 20. Yeah, we can we can hit hit a custom message. When she was like, I paid for that house. That was that was much. And especially for Rachel, so who's also like in the middle of getting divorced and she's just like, why was that necessary? Like, you know what I mean? Like it was just like, it's a hit to your husband. I haven't even met your husband yet. And it's just like, I don't know. Like it just felt weird. Like why throw him under the bus for no reason? Not her telling Kyle. That her gene shorts are really in right now. I was like, why would she say that to someone? Like, oh, wow, you're longer shorts. They're really in right now. Okay. It's giving, oh, you have a ghost rider? I wrote my own book. She's just a walking sound bite of like, oh, I mean, I am enjoying her. I love Amanda too. I love her too. I did see it. We are, but they are not. I did see a tweet that said Amanda's like the first AI housewife, which I thought was it made me laugh, but I also felt all. Justin, did you notice that Rachel's O gives compliments like you do? What? When she said it's giving 1960s airline attendant. Rachel's O and I just really understand aesthetics and like comparisons. Justin gave me a compliment one day when I came to work and he was like, you're giving like, or we get a 40-year-old girl in winter. And I was just like, is that a compliment? And I was like, I'm sure. You guys obviously don't come from the Leslie Noap School of Complement. You know how Leslie will compliment and in Parks and Rec? That's how I compliment my girls. You know, I'm like, you were a beautiful sunflower that fell up top this earth. Mary told me once I was giving Christian Autumn. Christian Girl Autumn because you were eating in a fall fit. Too old. Wait, did you guys notice that in the after show? So I don't know if they've done this before, but they did pickups and they've shot now two versions of every leo's after show. I think just to get more coverage or whatnot, but Amanda's not present in the pickups. Do you think this is a one-end done season for her? Well, I think, I mean, we don't know. Obviously it could be so many different reasons. Maybe she wasn't available or what, but yeah, I mean, she's been getting a lot of hate specifically in regards to her career right now online. So maybe to touch to that, I know she did an interview where she also said she was part of a cult. Yeah, the cult. So there's a lot to her we don't know on. And one thing I will give her credit on to you is that she did do an interview talking about the cult thing, her headshot, which I guess was from a DUI like 10 years ago. But she was very much like, I owned that. She said that she wrote the original, the article about her being in a cult was from her blog that she started and it's the first post on her blog. So she's kind of like these women are acting like they're finding out secrets about me, but like I posted that. Like I'm the one who's put that out there. So that's one thing I will give her credit on as that she's claiming that there's no skeletons in her closet because also, I mean, sometimes people get caught up in the wrong group and leave. And it also was it her saying like, I'm going to call it like, she was part of a religious, a religion that she compares to a lot of cult like practices. That's what that's kind of my point. Yeah, where is this like is she calling it a cult after like kind of being a woken to the what it was? It's retrospective from her experience. That's right. But I can see where the eyebrow raises to like independent coaching with no credentials from like being in a cult because it's kind of like you come up with this rhetoric or like steps to take. So it's like I can see whether it's eyebrow raises. And then I think back to the lunch with Doree, where Moses like, what are some like steps or advice you can give Doree on like what she should do right now with her finances with PK and she's like just like manifest like being powerful. I agree with it. So it's a practices though. Yeah, I'm in a long-term situation after we I think what Doree, what Bose was asking for Doree was like, I need to talk to you. Yeah, I need to talk to you. You know, so like he could be taking an ordinary call to she just cross your face. Is that a person? Yeah. How long is it going to you know, like it comes with answers. Yeah. Yeah. Well, she is a I'm still I'm still enjoying a man. I although I you know, when you rub Bose the wrong way it raises eyebrows. Yeah. I mean, yeah, that's what I was like, I'm excited to see where the season goes because what we're only like five, six episodes in. So I'm just like, she's got a long way to go with the character. I can we haven't even hit the the mug shot yet. Oh, yeah. So. True. And that was like a big part of the trailer. Well, that will do it for today's episode. Thank you to all our guests, including Brent Sandra and Jam Jam. We appreciate them all taking the time and appreciate you all listening. Do not forget to check out Valfauss Plus for more amazing content. And again, if you want to see the Valfauss live on May 6th with the cast of next season's temptation island, be sure to get tickets now. They won't last long. We will see you back on Thursday. Bye bye.