The Devil Wears Prada

The year is 2006. So you don't read runway? Uh, no. And before today you had never heard of me? No. And you have no style or sense of fashion? Well, um, I think that depends on what you're... No, no. That wasn't a question. The movie, The Devil Wears Prada. Oh, unspooled. Oh. Hello, everyone, and welcome to... Unspooled. Yes, welcome to Unspooled. This is a podcast about good movies, critical hits, fan favorites, must-sees, and in case you missed them. We have covered the AFI Top 100, and now we are taking off movies from three major lists. The Letterbox Top 250 films with the most fans, the IMDb Top 250, and the New York Times 1000 Essential Films. And guess what, Amy? It doesn't stop there because we will also be chasing our own curiosity. That's right. And this week is an example of that, but maybe this movie is also on those lists because Devil Wears Prada 2 is coming out or is out, depending on when you listen to this, in theaters. And we figured what a great chance to revisit, quote-unquote, classic? Whoa, I don't know if I like your attitude because it is on one of those three lists. Hello, I'm Amy Nicholson. I'm the Focal Critic of the Los Angeles Times, and I'm going to take this moment to actually say thank you to Vogue Magazine. Vogue Magazine is a very important part of who I grew up, who I became. I'm the Stanley Tucci was a little kid reading this magazine in San Antonio, Texas. 2012, 13, 14, reading not only just about amazing fashion and models and I don't know why it's better to cook French fries and horse fat, which was a real article that Vogue Magazine read. It's been graved in my head ever since. But they had an amazing film critic. His name was John Powers. I would read him. I would dream about all the movies that maybe someday I could watch if like cool movies came to San Antonio, Texas, which was very hard and they didn't come that much. And then that film critic John Powers became very important in my life because he gave me my internship at the LA Weekly, which he was by the time I graduated. And I owe that man a lot. So Vogue Magazine, John Powers, major figures of young Amy Nicholson's childhood. Now, I didn't want to interrupt you, but I don't know what you're talking about. This movie is about runway magazine. You're right. It's completely about that. Not anything I would do with Vogue at all. I am Paul Scheer. I'm an actor, writer and director. And now I can say on Adrian Grenier, completist, because I had never seen the Devil Wears product until this weekend. And now I can finally say, yes, I've seen all the Adrian Grenier movies. But as I just Googled him, no, I have not. There's a lot that I've missed, actually. Oh, there is. I was going to say how many movies are we really talking about? More than you would think. More than you would think. Yeah, there's a lot. There's a lot. Fair enough. The list keeps on going. I would even name them for fun, but there's upwards of like 40. It seems to be. Sounds like we have a new podcast. We did the AFI Top 100. Now I'll do the Adrian Grenier Top 40. Unsouled. No, this is actually really fascinating for me to watch. I want to talk about the movie, obviously, in great detail. But my initial, my gut reaction to it is, oh my God, I have been living in a sea of imitators without seeing this, right? And this is the goal. The Framverse 21 versions? Yes. This is the gold standard. Like I get it. I get and I want to put you at ease. I really enjoyed the hell out of it. Oh, thank God. Oh, yeah. Scary for a second. No, I put like classic because I didn't know like, is it a classic? I think it is. I just don't know. I think it is too. Honestly, I think it is a classic in the key of a mean girls. Maybe even more. Like I feel like this actually people will watch this movie in 40 years. Honestly, the way that we like to watch not even just funny face movies like about the modeling industry with Audrey Hepburn, but just like any snarky, even his girl Friday workplace comedy. It definitely tackles bigger themes than I thought would be at play in just what I knew about the film. And I think to your point, Vogue magazine has had this stranglehold on culture. And I guess maybe a stranglehold only used in a negative way. I think it. Choker is popular. I don't know if that's true, but the probably know, but like Vogue is the, you know, the magazine that defines what we all embrace. I think it is a, it is the old grade ladies, colorful brother. Does anyone use that so far really striking out of my metaphors, but I'm going to say, I don't think anybody's ever called it anybody's brother. Sure. Yeah, maybe sister. Okay. Yes. The old grade ladies, colorful sister. And when this movie was even spoken about, it already created such an uproar because back in 2006, Fox bought the rights to this book called the devil wears Prada. And that was based on the first 50 pages of the book and a treatment about what the rest would be. Yeah, they were like, we are sold. This doesn't matter that this book isn't even done. This is the author Lauren Weisberger's pretty true story of being Anna Wintour's assistant at Vogue magazine. You have this prestigious take no prisoners fashion magazine that has told women how to dress and shape the culture, I would say at large since 1892. So they immediately start turning what they've got from the book into a script about this new assistant named Andy, who considers herself a serious journalist who's not into fashion and her terrifying boss Miranda Priestly, the editor of Runway magazine. And the script goes through a lot of drafts, but the director that they have in mind, David Franco, he's a TV talent, his his credits at the time, they include Sex in the City and Entrage. So you know that he knows fashion, New York careers, celebrity. They really want this guy to direct. But he is so impressed with this original script that he does not want to take the meeting because his issue with it is that it's just snarky, shallow, campy. And as David puts it, quote, we should be thrilled to have the people who are excellent at what they do be superior at their jobs. You know, the fact that they are not always nice is irrelevant. And so they redo the script again. Now with Aileen Brosh McKenna and they make it funny and respectful towards the fact that Miranda might be awful, but she's also a great editor. I mean, they almost make her too nice because then Meryl Streep agrees to play Miranda Priestly and says, hey, make me meaner. You're not gratuitously, but as in I've got stuff to do and I don't have any to be nice. And then yes, some other fashion people who know Vogue, they also read the script and they say, make these other co-workers, Emily and Nigel meaner, too. Emily and Nigel will be played by Emily Blunt and Stanley Tucci. And Andy is, of course, played by Anne Hathaway, who at the time is just 21 years old and already building up a pretty impressive resume with the Princess Diaries and Brokeback Mountain. But the producers don't really see her in the part. Yeah, they want Rachel McAdams so much so that they ask Rachel to do it three times. And each time she says no. I mean, and Anne on the other side of this just wants it so bad that she even writes hire me in the producers Zen Garden, which I mean, that should be on the studio. Honestly, another thing about though, writing hire me in a Zen Garden, disrupting the Zen Garden feels like it's going against the idea. But anyway, her character, Andy, learns to fit in and excel at Runway Magazine. But the drama is a film is that doing well at Runway costs her a lot. It costs her relationships with her friends. It costs her her relationship with her boyfriend, Nate. Her normal friends do not get this job pressure the way that another person she meets this magazine writer named Christian does. Nate is played by Adrian Grenier and Christian is played by Simon Baker. Now, this movie is a monster hit. It comes out June 30th, 2006 and makes three hundred and twenty six million dollars. Not on the first weekend, but over time. Yes. Thank you for specifying that. And it gets nominated for best costumes for Patricia Field, who's also a sex in the city and a best actress for Meryl Streep. They both lose, but Meryl does win the Golden Globe. You can hear her here. Oh my God. Thank you, everybody. Thank you so much. I'm really thrilled. I think I've worked with everybody in the room. Yes, I am. Oh, I'm going to forget everything if I don't. Oh, oh, shut up. It's not that long. And I want to play a little bit more from her speech because I was listening to it and thinking it's almost like she's talking about young me in San Otatio, Texas, except I didn't have the nerve to go say anything like this. And finally, I just want to say the reason you could see the devil wears Prada is because it was playing on every theater screen across America. And that was because they were playing it. And if you can't see, you know, little children or Pans Labyrinth or the Queen or or all these great movies that I've just seen, Volver Notes on a Scandal, Sherry Baby, then you have to go down to your theater manager and ask him why. Because. It's amazing how much you can get if you quietly, clearly and authoritatively demand it. That's all. And the devil wears Prada is number 80 on the letterbox top 250 films with the most fans. You know, you know, the idea of writing a tell all book about Vogue is truly like something worth salivating for, right? Because this idea of what goes on behind the scenes and Anna Wintour is such a character. I got to actually sit behind her at Glengarry Glen Ross, the new one that they just did on Broadway. And there is such an energy around this woman. It is it is mind blowing, like truly. What did you say? Like what did what happen? Well, I did get pushed down by a security guard. So I didn't realize that Anna Wintour was in front of me. And not only that, she was with Jill Biden. So. Oh, wow. When I got up very quickly to like run to the bathroom, like I knew where the act break was. I was forcibly pushed back down in my seat to let her and Jill walk past me before I got up. It was a shocking moment because my New Yorker and me came out and then I realized, oh, I'm surrounded by two very big men. And I was like, sit back down and then put everything together. But I did not even realize that I was sitting behind her until I realized, oh, there is a lot of pomp and circumstance here. But she is, to me, a fascinating figure, right? Even if you don't know Vogue, if you don't care about fashion, she is like a an icon of New York, a Mickey Mouse, if you will. But I found it fascinating that, you know, we talked about Anne Hathaway wanting this part, but they wouldn't fully finance this film until Meryl Streep came on board, which I thought was kind of interesting, right? Like there's only one person that could play her. Well, yeah. And I think I had to come around to that idea too, because I think the first reaction to, hey, this should be Meryl Streep was, we've never seen her do a comedy. Can she do a comedy? Now, you know, now we're in this world of Meryl Streep doing all of the ABBA movies. And I think we're warm or very warm with the idea that she can be funny too. She is. She's incredibly warm and funny. She's amazing. I mean, if you've watched her on only murders in the building, I mean, she can do anything. She's Meryl Streep. And I think part of this was a political choice, because if you're going to have anyone play you in a film, it better be Meryl Streep, right? Like Anna Wintour can't be that mad. And I think that, you know, at first. That's true. Right. You've got to be like, OK, OK, we're going to the best. Yeah. Exactly. Right. There's no other. And then. And you also feel like if it's Meryl Streep. Sorry to interrupt, but if it's Meryl Streep, then Meryl Streep isn't going to just do some one note lampoon review. Meryl Streep is going to do a real performance. And I think that that also is something that you felt from the fashion world as well, because no one wants to get on the wrong side of Anna Wintour. Like we said, she is creating culture and even fashion brands were nervous at first. But then Prada, they kind of said, OK, we'll do this. And that broke the ice, reassured others. And then more fashion brands came on. It was a slow journey to kind of let people know, like, yes, we're going to make that, but it's not going to be a hit piece. And that allowed even like the production designer to visit Vogue and study Wintour's office, you know, and they say that the recreation was so close that Anna Wintour redecorated after the movie because she didn't like that her office was actually made that way. You know, I actually looked it up to be like, is that true? And it does look like it. They both have, you know, white walls, framed art and very neutral frames, lots of white space, and they specifically both have mirrors on the walls shaped like octagons. Oh, wow. And like a subtle stop. I think we've talked about Meryl Streep a handful of times in the show. And there's so much talk about like Daniel Day-Lewis, he's in character, he won't break character. And I don't ever think Meryl Streep talks that much about her process. But there is a great story that and halfway tells. Where like on the first day of shooting, Meryl Streep came up to Anne Hathaway and said, I think you're perfect for the role. I'm so happy we're going to be working together. And then said, and that is the last nice thing I will say to you. And that's how she kept her distance, like as Miranda, like wanted to keep that kind of thing. And I mean, honestly, yeah, I think like all I know about Meryl's process comes from what she said specifically only about this movie, because she said, I did this more in method than I ever have. And it was terrible because I was not nice to people. I like big, friendly on sets. I hid in my trailer all the time and I could hear people laughing and having a blast. And I refused to do it because I didn't want to break this character. So that makes me think by extrapolation, she's not method. That's really interesting. I guess you're right. And maybe the weight of doing right by this woman is really what drove her, right? Because Meryl Streep wanted to, I think, make it faithful. And a lot of people assume that she was going to be screaming at all times. But she kind of creates this like whisper in her voice that is so stern. I don't know. It works so much better because it goes against the grain of what you think a very intimidating boss might be. Yeah. I mean, oh my gosh. Remember that scene where Andy accidentally walks in and sees that this woman, who's so terrifying in the office, is actually getting into a fight with her husband in her own home that sounds pretty brutal. Let's listen to that. What did you expect me to do? Walk out in the middle of a cover show? I rushed out of an investment committee meeting. I sat there waiting for you for almost an hour. I could do that. The cell phones didn't work. Nobody could get a signal out. And I knew what everyone in that restaurant was thinking. There he is waiting for her again. And so then after that scene, you're like, oh God, what's going to happen? She didn't say a thing yet. She didn't say a thing in the house. You're so nervous. This is going to be hell. And the very first word you hear a mayoral say to her is this. Andrea. That's the quietest, subtlest. Oh, no. It's just like you are coming into the room and I am summoning you. And you know, Barrel Street said that she based this on a couple different people that she knew that she worked with. One of whom was in. Do you remember this movie? Warner Brothers presents the most passionately read love story of our time. Clint Eastwood. Merrill Streep. The Bridges of Madison County. Yes, I actually never see the Bridges of Madison County. That felt like a movie for old people for me when it came out, but she made that movie with Clint Eastwood. And so she said, when I watch Clint Eastwood on a set, he never raises his voice. If he raises his voice, like I think he did it once. Everybody flipped out. She's like, he commands power by not having to raise it. You have to listen to him. You don't want to upset this guy. The way everyone reacts around him is how you see what real power looks like. It's always trying to listen a little bit for like the Clint Eastwood of her delivery, having never been directed by him and still continually making fun of him in my head for his orgy movie. But like, I pulled this clip because it's probably one of the most famous ways of him speaking and you're like, okay, yeah, I could see more at a piece, priestly saying this. I know what you're thinking. That if I are six shots or only five, well, I tell you the truth and all this excitement, I kind of lost track myself. Being this is a 44 magnet, the most powerful handgun in the world and would blow your head clean off. You've got to ask yourself one question. Do I feel lucky? Well, do you bunk? And then the other person that she took a lot of the Miranda Peece's delivery from was Mike Nichols, you know, the director of the graduate. We've talked about Mike Nichols a lot. She says that from him, she learned that if you say something so mean to people, but that you say it with just a little bit of like, she called it a quote, self-amused curlicue of irony. Then that is so brutal because it makes everyone in the room laugh to break the tension and even the person you're making fun of feels obligated to laugh. And then it's like you're laughing at them and it's just doubled down. Ooh, I love that. You know, the way that you're talking about like presence, it was brought to my attention so clearly in this episode of the beast games, I know you're going to be like, wait, Paul, why are you going this way? But, you know, Mr. Beast obviously hosts his shows in a very particular way. I am standing on five a million dollars of real money. Jeff Probst turns to him and says, why are you yelling? You have all the power. You never need to raise your voice. And I was like, wow. And and watching survivor for that long, you realize, oh, Jeff Probst doesn't raise his voice. He is the conductor instead of like the school teacher. And I found that to be really just an interesting way of using silence to control more than energy to control. I am so smart. Yeah, because if you yell at somebody, it doesn't pay attention to you. You don't have anywhere else to go. It's like you lose a minute immediately. And I know that we've been talking about, you know, this is about Anna Wintour, but I think it was really smart that Meryl Streep went outward. Like, yes, this is about the editor of Vogue, but she created her own version of her. She's not wearing the big glasses. As a matter of fact, her look is kind of partly based on and I didn't know this person before, but Carmen Del Orifes. Do you know this? Yes, I know her. She's a really famous model at this time. And if you look at her on Google, you will see or anywhere, I mean, you could find her anywhere. She looks exactly like Miranda Priestly, right? This is the kind of work that I think makes the film a little bit more detailed because it's not just a direct parody, right? She's creating her own. Her own ideas around a powerful character. And I think that's why this movie actually stands up. And would be something that you would want to watch in the future, because it's not just about one person. It's about a type of person, because she also said that she was very influenced by the authority of Christine Lagarde. Do you know that Christine Lagarde? Yeah. And this is an odd one because Christine Lagarde is not a actress, not a model, not even anyone in the publishing world. She is a French politician and lawyer. Currently, she's the president of the European Central Bank. But back in, you know, 2005, 2006, when this movie is being made, she is the minister of foreign trade in France. So an interesting character to kind of pick as a powerful woman. You know, powerful woman in banking and a French woman. I love that she went that direction. And I think it's really neat that she insisted on having her hair be white because Meryl Streep at this period is not a person with naturally white hair. She's only in her mid 50s. She does not have that shocking, shocking white, but she was willing to play herself up as looking older than she naturally would. Instead of doing this in the, I must stay young at all costs. I've got like a facelift, that kind of caricature way that she could have gone. She goes with like real dignity. And I don't know. I love that she's just sort of cruising through being this woman who, you know, honestly, she is terrible. Like I had a friend with this boss once, a boss who's almost exactly like this. Also a magazine, also a fashion magazine route. And I watched this boss destroy my friend's life for a while. And like by the end of my friend working there, our hearts were all breaking for them. And also it was difficult to be around them too, because they were like a nightmare. And then they wound up getting fired for the stupidest reason that like we all have their backs for, but could not tell them because they could not even talk about how they were fired because it was too painful. So we all had to ignore it. It was insane. I mean, it was completely insane. And I think that movies like this or stories that you hear about powerful people often, I think, fuel other people to be equally horrible, right? Or if you've had a horrible boss, you can sometimes just follow in their footsteps. I mean, so many people go the other direction. But at this time, you know, bad boss behavior is something that you share, is something that just goes on and is kind of respected. And I think this movie walks a really interesting line with it because, yes, this is real. There are awful bosses. And they aren't your friend. And this movie continually makes choices, in my opinion, where they never wreck that. There's a moment towards the end of the film where, you know, Meryl Streep is revealing that she's getting a divorce. And you would think in your typical rom-com or I don't even know what you call it. It's just a calm. The Anne Hathaway character would give her advice or share something about her own relationship, or, you know, they would see eye to eye in this moment and they would be equal. And they don't do that at all. Like there's an acknowledgement that they are together. But Anne Hathaway never oversteps that boundary with her, which I think is incredibly realistic. Ready to launch your business? Get started with the commerce platform made for entrepreneurs. 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This is what it felt like to play RPGs in the 80s and man, it is so good to be back. Join the Glass Cannon podcast as we plunge into the shadow dark every Thursday night at 8 p.m. Eastern on youtube.com slash the Glass Cannon with the podcast version dropping the next day. See what everybody's talking about and join us in the dark. That's what I really love about the film is there aren't many traditional like movie moments where a character is redeemed or we see a different side or finally they have a breakthrough. Like we leave these characters kind of splintering off and it's not as if you know one character is one or the other one is defeated. It's they have both chosen lives where at a certain point in half ways like I must go this way. This is how I will be happier not because she was broken but because she realized that it wasn't for her. And Meryl Streep isn't going to change the way that she is. I thought that was kind of a squishier boss. At least you taught me I should have pizza Fridays like what? No, yeah, like there's not a hug at the end. It's not hugs and learning. It's like she nods at Meryl across the street. Meryl gets in the car and still won't let her smile. Like she smiles only to herself, only for herself, but only for a minute. Nobody's going to learn anything on any kind of level. Like I really appreciate that this movie sets up not only this, I guess, I guess there's kind of like a love triangle dynamic in the office between Andy and Miranda and then Emily, the number one assistant who was like terrified that Andy's going to ruin her job. And it's just like so intense all the time is really like taking that bad bossness to heart. It sounds like a great opportunity. I'd love to be considered. Andrea. Runway is a fashion magazine, so an interest in fashion is crucial. What makes you think I'm not interested in fashion? Oh my God. No, no, no. That's the triangle that's happening in film and then there's the romantic triangle that's happening in the film and none of them get resolved with like, here's my choice and everything's going to be happy. Right. Life is messy. And you know, I want to be happy. And you know, I want to just dig in to what you said about bad boss. And that's something I've been thinking about for a long time. Since I saw it. Is that what she is? Is she a bad boss or is she just an uncompromising person? Because she has built a career on being uncompromising. Like that scene, that monologue that she gives about the belt, right? Anne Hathaway doesn't see a difference between these two belts. And you know, Miranda Priestly gives this monologue about how that choice, it's so small, you don't even see it will dictate, have ripple effects across culture that you are essentially a part of, but you don't even know it. And that I to detail and that exceptionalism is important because she is holding up something that is the backbone of culture. And that sentiment to me, I think is really interesting. This idea of someone who will not break. And there's been a lot of movies about that in this last year. We talked about it a little bit, but like Jay Kelly and Hamnet. And I just saw Outcome, which, you know, we can have a whole conversation about that. But, but this idea of giving up yourself for your career. And that's what we're watching. We are watching this woman who has gotten herself to the top wrong, having to constantly give up everything. I think Meryl Streep is doing that too, by taking yourself out of the fun and hiding in the trailer. Like that was the type of mindset that she had to be in. There is no time for fun. This is a time for being professional. I want to actually play in that speech that you just talked about, the Cerulean speech, because I think it is incredibly important and so pivotal just for everything you described. For the fact that it was Meryl Streep's idea. She's like, people need to understand how important fashion is to really have this world be grounded. But just thematically, I kind of feel like it is the entire movie right there. Still learning about this stuff and this stuff. Oh, OK, I see. You think this has nothing to do with you. You go to your closet and you select, I don't know, that lumpy blue sweater, for instance, because you're trying to tell the world that you take yourself too seriously to care about what you put on your back. But what you don't know is that that sweater is not just blue. It's not turquoise. It's not lapis. It's actually Cerulean. And you're also blithely unaware of the fact that in 2002, Oscar de la Renta did a collection of Cerulean gowns. And then I think it was Yves Saint Laurent, wasn't it, who showed Cerulean military jackets. I think we need a jacket here. And then Cerulean quickly showed up in the collections of eight different designers. I'm going to filter down through the department stores and then trickle down into some tragic casual corner where you no doubt fished it out of some clearance bin. However, that blue represents millions of dollars and countless jobs. And it's sort of comical how you think that you've made a choice that exempts you from the fashion industry when, in fact, you're wearing a sweater that was selected for you by the people in this room. OK, because what we're talking about is exactly a point. Like fashion is, fashion is life. Like one of my favorite fashion critics I read all the time is Vanessa Friedman for the New York Times. I think she's amazing. And I love reading her fashion pieces because they touch on stuff that interests me about movies, you know, anthropology, culture, fashion. What are we trying to say about ourselves when we go out in the morning? And what are we putting on our bodies? You know, she has this line, you know, everyone has to think about food, shelter and what they wear. And I even knew to think about what they wear because they're just rejecting the idea of wearing anything, which is also a choice. But that's that's what's happening in this really in speech, too, is it is about choices. You know, you think you're you think you're making this choice, you're actually making this choice. You think you're not making a choice. You are making a choice because all throughout this movie, that's what people keep accusing Andy of doing. You think you don't have a choice in taking your boss's phone calls and in working crazy and in screwing over Emily when Emily wants to go to Paris. You are also making choices. And I love that Meryl Streep has a really long line of torsion or she just calls her out like choices that we'd make in life are, I would say, one of the major themes here. I never thought I would say this, Andre. But I really. I see a great deal of myself in you. You can see beyond what people want and what they need and you can choose for yourself. I don't think I'm like that. I. I couldn't do what you did to Nigel Miranda. I couldn't do something like that. You already did. To Emily. That's not what I. That was different. I didn't have a choice. No, no, you chose. You chose to get ahead. You want this life. Those choices are necessary. But what if this isn't what I want? I mean, what if I don't want to live the way you live? Don't be ridiculous, Andre. Everybody wants this. Everybody wants to be us. And I think that that's really important and going back to that idea of being exceptional. And that's, you know, what the director looked at when he was approaching this, like, how do we celebrate that? Yes, they're difficult, but they're exceptional. And I think that that's what separates a movie like this from a film like Swimming with Sharks. Do you remember that movie with Kevin Spacey? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, like, Glenn Gary Glenn. Wait, wait, you saw, you said you saw Anna Wintour at this at Glenn Gary Glenn Ross. Yeah, the new one that just was on. I just realized how perfect that was. Oh, wow. Yeah, you're right. Wow. Okay, cool. She's taking notes or she's like, no, I draft. I helped you with this. But I think that in the past, like when you watch that movie, Swimming with Sharks, like that's an abusive boss. And I think a lot of the stories that we hear and my friends and myself, when we've worked for bad bosses, they don't have that exceptionalism. They want control and that loud voice and that power is, you know, in many respects, them forcing you to listen to them, not controlling you to listen to them. Like everybody wants to be there. People don't want to be fired. That's what makes this movie interesting is that in the beginning and halfway doesn't care. She doesn't know her. She has no respect for her, but then grows to respect her and that process. And I think that we're so used to bad bosses just being just dicks, right? You know, they, for no reason. And I feel like everything that she does in this, with the exception of the Harry Potter manuscript, which I think is her most dickish move because she's embarrassed, right? She's embarrassed and she wants her to leave, but she won't fire her and Anne Hathaway won't quit. So they're caught in this impasse that they're forced to kind of work together and show each other what they have. And they both have to, well, and for Anne Hathaway to stay, that's her apology. Her apology isn't like, I'm so sorry. I saw you with your husband. Her apology is like, I have to now be this other thing to stay here to prove my worth. But that's one beat in the entire film. The rest of the movie, she's not like that. Yeah. And I think you're right. It would be unethical for her to fire Anne Hathaway for Anne Hathaway witnessing something in her personal life. But she can make it so hard for her to stay that that separates the choice. And yeah, I think like the coolest thing that she says to her specifically is like calling her fat all of the time. But that also just gets you in the headspace of like, in my reality, Anne Hathaway is not fat. How screwed up is this reality of runway that they just treat it like it's a fact? That it's just a fact to everybody. She gets called her size, which is six, which is a dream size. You know, they're like, fat. Like, and it's one of those things that is cruel, but the factuality of it in this world as it was framed then, because this is definitely a pre-body empathy, body warmness moment for Vogue. And I think Vogue put Kim Kardashian on the cover in 2014. And then finally after that, they're like, I don't know, we'll put Lauren Bezos, which is just like what? Which is anti everything that you would have thought that Annie stood for. But now the basis is her co-chairing the Megala or the big, whatever. That's a whole mess now. This is a different Vogue is my point. A very different Vogue. I will say that even though this is 2006, I have many female friends who tell me that they can't borrow dresses from designers unless they are a six. They don't give you those outfits to walk on the red carpet unless you're a size six. So it hasn't changed that much. We may not call people fat because of it, but it's there culturally. It's still true. I'm sorry, sweetie. And the reason why Kim Kardashian is on the covers, because Kim Kardashian is a iconic fashion star that's not in the traditional mold, but it wasn't like, you know, Anna Wintour found a model who is a no name. She's selling magazines and especially in a time and this is kind of neither here nor there with the film where magazines like that are dying and you need to sell publications back, you know, in 2006 and before that people are just buying it because it's part of their pile of magazines to get every month. Yeah. I mean, it's already switching a little bit here because even the fact that she's talking about a cover shoot with Gwyneth, when I was a child reading Vogue magazine, the cover was always a model, always a model. And I remember when it made a switch from models to actresses and you're like, what? Like it switched from models to celebrities and it was like it needed a famous face on the cover. And that felt to me like, oh God, are we dying? We need a little bit of a boost here. And I don't, I wish that we wouldn't go back to models on covers of magazines. I feel like that's what a fashion magazine should have. Right. But I guess that's the interest, right? The interest is I'm picking it up not just because of fashion, because of celebrity and celebrity and fashion have now become synonymous in many ways. But I think with this film and looking at it, I really responded to the way it articulates what success is and the cost of success, which back to that point about, you know, I'll say J. Kelly. I think that J. Kelly didn't do it as succinctly as this film did, right? It showed you, oh yes, this is the life left behind and maybe this is the Anna Wintour story when Anna Wintour is, you know, about to retire. But I think that there is a push. There is no looking back. There is only looking forward. There is no regret because they have, and maybe this is inflated ego, but a higher power. It's the same reason why I think people feel comfortable running for president. I think if you're going to run for president, you are insane. And I say that, you know, like, like on some level, you believe you can handle the fate of this country in your hands. I mean, that is an impossible thing to wrap your head around. Yeah, and that you can hold up to the scrutiny of that and the cameras and the public, your face being out everywhere. That's my nightmare. And yet dozens, I mean, you know, hundreds of people have thrown their hat into the ring. It's very interesting, right? Like, and those types of people are built differently. What if we have a different type of president? So this must be Captain Obvious 101. But ever since like Kennedy, the checker speech, Nixon, when it became clear that if you were going to be a president in around the 19 late 50s, early 60s, you had to be OK on television. Right. I wonder if before then, because we weren't alive, we had sometimes better presidents because they didn't have to always be in front of a camera talking. I think it goes back to that the first debate between Nixon and Kennedy. People who listen on the radio thought that Nixon won. The people who watched on TV thought John F Kennedy won because Nixon was sweating. Right. And we've dealt with things in the past like, well, Al Gore is too much of a nerd. And I will say that, you know, as we get to Trump, Trump is one of the few presidents, if maybe only president, that seems very thin skinned. And I say that only because I think part of being a leader, whether it's the head of Vogue or the president of the United States is not to even take any of that stuff on. Right. You have to be above it. I don't think that show that it hurt you. Right. I don't think like Nixon was an asshole behind the scenes. Oh, right. Yeah. And right. You're not you're not broadcasting it. And I want to show the weakness of it. And I think that that's why this movie is kind of genius in the sense that Miranda Priestly isn't a cold hearted person. She has children. She cares about those children. She has a husband. She can't keep him. And we see why through Anne Hathaway and Adrienne Grenier, like it is all encompassing, but she is a human and we see those human side-star. And that's the thing that is really important about this movie, too, is you have to give a part of yourself away and no one will ever really get it. I mean, they don't delve into her relationship with the children. And I think that she's there for them. But how much can she be there? Like you're always going to get some sliver of them, right? She wants to be there for the recitals. She's trying, but then the kids seem to have an issue with her job enough that they're trying to get Anne Hathaway in trouble. Right. So they seem to have some mild rage. Or just they know. They know they can. I mean, kids are like that. I think the kids can they want to fuck with you. They want to get you in trouble. I'm sure they've been yelled at. I mean, they're definitely, I think, spoiled and also definitely shot to be like the shining twins. But the secondary mystery is what is the backstory with these kids? Because Miranda maybe seems a bit too old to have had them biologically. And it doesn't seem like this guy she's married to is a father. It doesn't seem like the last one is the father. I mean, even when she's talking about them, when she's finally revealing herself about the divorce, she just says another father dot, dot, dot figure. You know, and it's like she had to make a choice to have those kids. And I don't know what that choice even was because it doesn't seem like it was an accident. It seems like it really had to be something she worked for. And it was difficult. It had to try to figure out how to get other people on board around to that if none of these men, she's marrying her, their fathers. What's the deal? And by the way, just hard. And by the way, just put some real world context on it. Anna Wintour does have two children. She married this gentleman, David Schaefer in 84. They had a baby Charles in 85 and be in 87 before divorcing in 99. And, you know, I guess apparently she's had a long term relationship with Shelby Bryant because who I believe she is married to now. And, you know, her kids have, you know, done interesting things like B, I believe worked on Seth Meyers show. I remember hearing that. And then, and I think her other someone looking right here is a psychiatrist. I mean, they really took the different path from the family because I think like everybody else in her family, her brother and her dad. Yeah, I think they definitely did. They did. They did. They did. They did come from journalism. Like, here's what I'm actually talking about in a very strange interview. I also just want to pull out one thing that I saw in her Vogue 73 question. Anna, what is a skill that can never be mastered? For me, learning Chinese. What's your biggest regret? I don't have one. What's the least true rumor about you? They're all true. Anna, last question, can you put back on those sunglasses and take a selfie with my phone? I've never taken a selfie and I don't plan to start now. Fair enough, Anna. In her Vogue 73 questions, this is Anna Wintour. She said that her grandchildren do not call her grandma. They call her Anna, which is interesting, right? I guess what I'm saying is like, that's the level of you'll never get too, too close. You can't because the job is the thing. The job is the thing. I mean, I think if anything, what this movie really boils down to is maybe these two words, effort and appreciation, right? Like, you're Andy, you have to realize that being at this magazine takes effort. You know, I love that scene where she goes to Stanley Tucci looking for help and he's just not going to give it to her. You are not trying. You are whining. What is it that you want me to say to you, huh? Do you want me to say poor you? Miranda's picking on you. Poor you, poor Andy. Wake up, Six. She's just doing her job. Don't you know that you were working at the place that published some of the greatest artists of the century? Halston, Lagerfeld, De La Renta. And what they did, what they created was greater than art because you live your life in it. Well, not you, obviously, but some people. I mean, that speech is a little out of fashion now. And I wouldn't mind if it came a touch more in fashion because it's about like, hey, you're not always going to be the victim here. Like, you got to just work really hard. You got to really appreciate what you're doing. You got to understand that this takes effort. You got the job. Do the job, right? Like that's it or don't do the job. And part of the job is conforming to the workplace. When you are not the boss, you got to fit in, right? And that's the way that we should all be instead of, which I think is more of a millennial idea to a certain extent, which is like, well, it's going to work around my wants and needs. And I think that there's a mix of both. But I don't know, when I was in my 20s in New York, I gave everything to what I was doing. And I still do to a major part, but I'm glad that I had that time. That's what at least still do. You work very hard. But I also am able to draw that line and be like, and now I'm with my family, right? And that's the difference. And that took me a bit to like wrap my head around. But that like those early days was like, I didn't care. I performed almost seven nights a week. I would do anything anywhere for no money, some money, whatever it was, I was available, except for going to Brooklyn because that was a longer train ride. But that idea of just to work really hard because that's the internship, right? That's where you're learning every little detail and how you are going to, I don't know, that's the time, right? I don't have anything to hold you down. Like those early 20s. And I'm sure that's what like helped make you be Paul. And that you knew people who are also funny, who didn't commit like that and wound up doing something else with their life. I mean, like I was like a baby theater critic. I went to plays Friday night and Saturday night, usually Sunday night, usually Sunday afternoon as well and often the Thursday. So I was at the theater like five times a week. I never had weekends off with my friends. Right. I would always be like, okay, I'll meet you at a party at 1030 because that was when I would get out of a play. Like I didn't have dinner with people for years, like over 15 years of my life. I didn't have dinner with people. It's still really hard to have dinner with people because I have movies. And it's like that's just what I had to do with my 20s. Oh, I mean, I botched relationships in a major way because I chose to perform. I chose to stay in town on New Year's Eve to do a midnight show. I was not a good boyfriend, partner or whatever, but I also believe like, I don't think you have to be in your 20s. Yeah, I mean, if you're not going to marry the person forever, like, okay. And by the way, different fields, different fields require different things, but I think like what we're talking about are fields in which if you step off, the train keeps on going. Right. And then you have to wait for the next one. And those are hard choices. I mean, I wrote about one section of my book because it's so important to me at this moment where I was touring around the country making money. And I had the opportunity to stay in New York and do shows for free. So I'd be giving up money and something that didn't really make a difference, but it was kind of cool to do something that was very cool where I would be struggling to pay rent and be able to buy food. I was like really difficult decision to make. It's the best decision I ever made, but it's not it's not a safe or good decision because I could have backfired and it has backfired for many people too. Like I don't think that that's I wouldn't recommend it for my own kids, but it's like you have to chase. Well, I would chase their own passion, like bet on yourself, go that extra distance, but it's hard. It's hard to do. It is. And I think that takes us to like even the world of fashion, which is where my effort falls down a little bit because I'm an Andy. You know, like, yeah, I love Andy's outfits, even in the early part. I'm like cool sweater. I like that skirt. Everybody says it's ugly, you know, because I don't like putting in the effort to be hype fashion. To me, I will not be uncomfortable. Like I just cannot be uncomfortable. I will not wear heels. I cannot wear heels. That my idea of heels is like a one inch kitten heel on a boot and that's only every once in a while. And if I can wear my niggies, I'm going to do that instead. I love that. But like Andy has to learn that to be in this world that fashion does take effort. Fashion is not going to be comfortable. Like you have to appreciate the art of turning yourself into art, which I'm not willing to do, but I appreciate that she does it. And I think she looks fantastic when she does. And so does Shay Gildjus Alexander when he commits the fashion in those post game interviews. Exactly. But you know what? My guy Austin Reeves wears a sweatsuit every single day. And I think more than anybody else has killed the world of League fits because it's like whatever he visibly will not try. It is not because he chose it on the court. Where is my favorite go? And that's a different level of it too. I think that the interesting thing about this film is this conversation we're having, which is Anna Wintour or Miranda Priestly is not a bad person. She is an exceptional person. Do you want to make your life that? Do you want to live a life where you sacrifice everything for your career? A lot of people would say yes. And then there are people who are maybe more in the middle and can balance and do a little bit of both. Then there are people who are like, nope, I'm out. Peace. I'm done. And you know, it's interesting. I did a show or a segment with a non-named actress, a very famous actress. And we were sitting around talking and she said to me, she's like, wait a second. So you don't hang out at the chateau. How do you get jobs? And I was like, oh, I just, I don't know. I work with my friends. I do different things. And that idea, by the way, she said that to me and within the space of two to three years, she became giant, giant. And I was like, oh, that's what you need to do. You're going to go and hang out, hang at the chateau here in Hollywood. And that will help you get seen or help you get out there. There are people who I know who go out to every party, every premiere, take pictures of themselves out and about. And you know, my wife and I always joke around about this. We're like, well, we could do that, but at what cost? And that's maybe where we are in our middle age to be like, we can do one fourth of that, get a little bit of that, and then also live a life. And that's the balance that we've made. And I mean, when June does that, when June puts, would you get dressed up, puts those pictures on Instagram? I'm like, good for you. She looks fantastic. She looks amazing. She would see her be like, and I will do the thing now. Here I go. And she nails it. And that's her, and that's her choice. But I think it's, you know, will you lose out because you're not doing it every night? I think that the, that's where we get FOMO from, right? The idea of like, yes, if I'm not always out, then what am I missing? And I got to go out, right? Or it's like, I'm comfortable enough to be like, you know what? I'm going to take my shots. I'll take my best shots when I can. And let's be Luke Canards. I'll put it in the Laker metaphor for you. Wait until you get your shot. And then you take your shot when you make, when you're ready to make that shot. And I feel like that's, and that's the way that I have chosen to live my life. Now, there's a people who keep on going. I think what you're saying is there's, you can live high pressure, mid pressure, low pressure, right? And that the way you choose to live is not, oh, I'm going to use a fashion metaphor. One size fits all, right? Yeah, exactly. Exactly. And so she leaves the high pressure, she goes to mid pressure. Her friends seem to like, they might be in like low pressure, low to mid pressure. And that's what it is. Like you, you decide where you want to slot at the end of the day. And I mean, it is probably why when she's in the high pressure world, I want her to be with the high pressure guy. Like, I think that Christian, the Simon Baker character, I'm like, oh girl, be with him. Because either what I see in him is that he at least appreciates her. He appreciates the effort. Where I get mad at people in this film is when they see her making the effort. And instead of saying like, oh, she's going to be high pressure. Cool. They're like, I don't want to be high pressure. So therefore her going high pressure is bad and they don't appreciate the effort. Because really what you're doing when you're watching this movie is you are watching Anne Hathaway, bust her ass so hard at work and nobody ever tells her good job ever except for Christian. Like nobody tells her good job. And you just want her to say, you just want somebody to tell her that she's doing an excellent job. But don't you feel like that's life? And I guess maybe that's the question. We can all approach it in a different way, but you can't expect it. You can't expect anyone to champion you. If it happens, great. If you get to surround yourself with people like that, excellent. But if you're looking for it, it probably won't come. And I mean, I'm not going to say like, Adrian Grenier's boyfriend is the worst boyfriend of all time. I don't think so at all. I think his speech is even better when he says, you're talking to me like, you're in this different world. I'm making, you know, demi-glace. Like, he's also an artist. You're mad because I work late all the time and because I missed your birthday party and I'm sorry. Come on. What am I for? You hate runway and Miranda and you think fashion is stupid. You've made that clear. Andy, I make port wine reductions all day. I'm not exactly in the peace corps. You know, I wouldn't care if you were out there pole dancing all night, as long as you did it with a little integrity. You used to say this was just a job. You used to make fun of the runway girls. What happened? Now you've become one of them. That's absurd. That's okay. That's fine. Just own up to it. And then we can stop pretending like we have anything in common anymore. You don't mean that. No, I do. But, but, but, but, but where I think he really screws up is he doesn't get why she's doing it. Because they have that meetup later and he says, oh, I basically think you did this for shoes. And when he says you do this for shoes, then I get so mad because it's like you didn't see what she was doing at all. You'd never understood why she did not do this for shoes. The shoes were a visible expression of how much she wanted what she was going after, but it was never about the shoes. Well, I mean, it's like they didn't date before the movie because she wasn't about the shoes before that, nor did she even care. Right. It makes me feel like he just didn't, he didn't really see her what she was after. He rewrote her to make it easier for him. Yeah, but that said, you know, there is the scene where she gets stuck having to go to the Met Gala. She misses his birthday. She comes home. She's got the cupcake. He gives her the silent treatment like he does here. I say that. I kept trying to leave, but there was a lot going on and, you know, I didn't have a choice. Don't worry about it. I go to bed. And I will say in that moment, I'm really mad at him, but then I take a second and it's like, you're so much of watching the Devil Wears product is like, would we be mad at Miranda if Miranda was a male boss? Would we just think she was being, you know, the usual thing? I do think that boyfriend in the moment, if this was a movie about a guy who was a workaholic and he missed his girlfriend's birthday and the girlfriend gave him the silent treatment, we all be like, yeah, yeah, you should feel ashamed. So I am empathetic with him in that scene. 100% the right reaction to have. I understand that she had something bigger to do. I mean, my first year anniversary with June of our wedding, we planned a big trip to New York. We got tickets to go see Book of Mormon and another show, like impossible shows to get into at that point. That was with like Gad and Reynolds and it was a big, it's a big deal. I made all these great reservations and then June got this part on this failed sitcom failed now where, you know, at that point in her career, she's like, I want to, I got to take this thing. I have a recurring role in this Hank Azaria sitcom and I wanted her to take it. I did and I got it. But I also then went to New York on my anniversary trip alone and just like kind of pulled in all my friends to go to the different things. Had a great time, but there was a little bit of like an anger that we didn't celebrate together in that moment. But I wasn't begrudging her career choice and I think that that's what's interesting about his character. He's not like, yeah, he can be, you can hold two truths. Like I'm sure that he's had nights where he had to stay late at the restaurant and or make decisions and maybe, you know, I don't know. I didn't find him to be nor did I find any character in this movie to be stereotypical. Right. I mean, I think he's a bad communicator. Like I guess silent treatment isn't the best way of handling it. But in that moment, I'll take it. Yeah. I mean, but it's true what you're describing. Like last year, my boyfriend and I missed both of each other's birthdays. Oh, wow. Like I came, I came back from Cannes right before my birthday. But he was in Canada shooting a movie and then he came back from Canada shooting his movie a week before his birthday. And I had to go to Toronto for the Toronto Film Festival. Right. This is like, I miss you and this is why it happens. And it sucks. But we also, this is the agreement that we've made. I think just kind of going back to what we were talking about before, like the three places that you can be, which is like high effort, medium effort, low effort. That's what makes Stanley Tucci's character really interesting. Right. Because Stanley Tucci is in many respects the successful version of Anne Hathaway, in my opinion. Right. He is secure in his job. He has a voice at the table, but he will never be Miranda. And he understands that. And at a certain point, he knows that the only way to get any power is to leave. And he's put in this position where he kind of is forced to stay and be a number two. And I think that that's another part of this equation, which is like, there is never a number one. Like Meryl Streep will always be number one. You can get close. You can be in these different levels, but you'll never be Miranda Priestly. You can only be in service to Miranda Priestly because Miranda Priestly is in service to a higher calling as well. Yeah. And yeah, unless he leaves and then he can't. And the same thing with Emily. Like Emily is technically the number one assistant, but she could be demoted at any time. And like my heart goes out to her. I mean, that character's mean. True. That character's awful, but that character is under so much stress all the time. Like that character's having a nervous breakdown right in front of us, you know, sitting alone at her desk, like muttering this to try to keep herself going. I love my job. I love my job. And here's the thing to contextualize this movie in my opinion. Less than a year. Right. So of course, Emily Blunt is mad at Anne Hathaway because Anne Hathaway hasn't put in the time for them to have anything more than a mean relationship. How many Anne Hathaway's have there been in her tenure? Right. Why get connected? Why be a part of it? It's not like at the end of the movie, Miranda Priestly is like, you're my wife. Miranda Priestly is like, you're my next person. No, she's just doing the job. And that's what I really love about it. I also love that ending moment where Anne Hathaway is going to interview at the New York Observer or wherever she's interviewing at. And they're less than a year. And yeah, like she hasn't put in time. She lived a very, she lived more than a year in a year, but she saw her future in that year and made a choice, a bold choice as a young 20 something. And I also think, look, Anne Hathaway on this set is probably in that same moment. Here I am 21. I've done a couple of movies and I'm with the Queen. Like when you think about the greats of acting, I think that most people would put Meryl Streep as like the top person. She's just the person in the dictionary, the synonym, the thesaurus, Meryl Streep. And so, you know, you also have that. And I think that like certain people, I've talked to, you know, hand full of people who've worked with directors and producers. And that's the moment. That's the moment that you see your life flash in front of your eyes. This is what I'm chasing. Well, even beyond that too, I think like at this time, Anne Hathaway is doing for the Anne Hathaway dated this guy that she didn't know was a con man. Yep, yep, yep, yep, yep. Yeah, she's dating this guy. He was Italian. I was working with her when she was in love with that man. Oh, no, I heard that he was like not that supportive of her career and that while they were making this movie when she had to shoot late nights, she'd get really stressed out or like vulnerable because he was not cool about it. Interesting. I mean, she's living, she's living this life. I mean, right? Yeah. I mean, I'm pursuing my dream and this guy's being testy about it and oh no, and and trying to make it work. And she I think they were together a couple more years before it came out what his real reality was. Welcome to the realms of peril and glory. Explore the mechanically magical vistas of veil, the paranormal mysteries of liminal London, and the cyberpunk chaos of cyborg. Be awed by our incredible guests from familiar shows like Ox Venture and No Rolls Bard. Search realms of peril and glory to find out more. From the parents behind law and order comes a mystery the whole family can enjoy. Patrick Picklebottom, everyday mysteries. Step into the whimsical world of Patrick Picklebottom, a precocious 11 year old with a love for reading and an uncanny ability to solve mysteries. Inspired by the beloved children's book of the same name, this podcast vividly brings Patrick's tales of deduction and everyday adventures to life as he unravels baffling enigmas and solves clever cases. Patrick Picklebottom, everyday mysteries is perfect for kids and is just as entertaining for grown ups who love a good mystery. The whole family can listen now wherever you get your podcasts. What did you think about that ending moment? I mean, I know we have that kind of looking across the street moment, but this is kind of the final words that we get between Miranda Priestly and Andy, which is her recommendation for her to write at the newspaper. And it's like, Andy was the biggest disappointment she ever had as an assistant, but he would be an idiot not to hire her. Obviously, I think he's- I think, huh? Yeah. Yeah. I think obviously you're like, okay, oh, she did like her. But I also feel that the first part is true as well. I think she means both. Yeah. I think she means both completely. I don't think she lies. I think she avoids- like, when she knows she's going to get maybe replaced, she's not lying to anybody about that. She's like avoiding telling her what the truth is until she has it sorted out. I think she never says anything she doesn't mean because why waste time? Right. And I think that why is she disappointment? Because she couldn't stick it out, right? Like, there is just a, you know, I thought it almost like there's an energy to her. Like, you could have been great, but you aren't. And I think- Yeah, I see a little of myself in you. Like, maybe she saw her going all the way. Maybe. Maybe. I don't know. And what do you think about Nigel? I think part of me with Nigel, I- I want to say this before I give you my opinion on it, but I'm excited and upset to watch Devil Wears Prada 2. I don't know if I want to know where these characters go. I know. I haven't looked anything up about it or seen a trailer or read the book that they wrote. Like, I want to go in. I'm seeing the movie very soon. I want to go in and see it very, very blank. Can we come up with our own ending before we know what this ending is? Absolutely. Yes, please. So this is a non-spoiler thing, but I mean, isn't it kind of great to see yourself though as he's like, this is the transitional moment. Like, whatever happens after, like, who cares? Like, in my opinion, it's not a movie about these characters. It's about who you want to be in the career that you chose to have. If you are doing- Do you think she goes to Boston with her boyfriend? No way. Okay, good. Me neither. Good. Yeah. All right. Do you think she forgives the blonde guy? I think that at a certain point, she forgives the mentalist. That's Simon Baker. I think that she has to because she gets it. I think that's one of those moments that stings, but is not something that is a long-lasting wound. The relationship was so kind of caught up in the bullshit. Yeah. And I don't know if even what he did was that bad. Like, it's not like you're going to tell all about how awful Miranda Priestly is through using quotes from her that he got out of her. That's what I thought was going to happen. That's why the movie is so smart. It doesn't make it that personal, right? It makes it business. Yeah. And I mean, he probably thought as a world where like, honestly, if he became the editorial director, he would hire her. Oh, we better for her in the long run. Yes. I mean, all right. So what about I'll throw it to you then Stanley Tucci. Where do you think he goes? Oh, we know he's in the movie. I mean, not that is true. We know that. Yeah. Is this movie going to give us her giving him the reins? Oh, I can't imagine. I think he's in the same exact spot, which is actually a more tragic ending. Right. Like how many more Andes has he seen in the last 20 years? How many, you know, there is something about. I mean, there's no there's no one else kind of in the world besides Miranda's like she has a team around her at that table, but we really don't know anyone. I think that Nigel is still doing Nigel. I mean, it's heartbreaking because like the Nigel we have seen for most of this movie is stern, no nonsense, blah, blah, blah. And I think that's the moment with her where he lets his guard down around Andy when he thinks he's getting this job for real. And you hear his actual voice come out, like who he actually is and you hear the joy when he's like, I'm going to finally get to see Paris, call my own shots. Yeah. That. Oh, I got to play that because it hearing the shift in how he even delivers his own lines, I think is really heartbreaking. And James needs a partner and that partner would be me. It doesn't matter. No, no, no, Miranda knows because she put me up for it. Oh, God, no, it doesn't matter. But, but, but you're leaving. I can't imagine runway without you. I'm so excited though. The first time in 18 years, I'm going to be able to call the shots of my own life. Oh my God. I'm going to be able to come to Paris and actually see Paris. Well, congratulations. Yeah. And I just answered that little note like no of them sitting at the table like she'll make it up to me. Are you sure about that? No. And that's the thing that I think that's the movie turns on that dime, which is how could she do that to him? And if I stay here, I will just be, I will be stepped on to keep her afloat. Yeah. I think it's important to realize when something has no loyalty to you deep down. And she does, but she also will. Like everything must go right. The baby is going to go out with the bathwater and she will take care of her. I don't think she's going to ever do anything awful to him, but she knows. I think that Miranda Priestly is smart enough to understand that he got this job. He wants that job. That's where he wants to be. But, and I think we can talk about this within the realm of every documentary about Lorne Michaels in the last year. And now there's a brand new one, which I'm very excited to see. And I haven't seen yet. I think there's a similarity between Lorne Michaels and Miranda Priestly. As I've just said this out loud for the first time, I'm like, oh God, so much the soft spokenness, the control, the power, the number twos, number threes, the people who leave, the people who stay. Right. He has surrounded himself in a world that is incredibly similar to Vogue and the power that they have. I would say the only thing that Lorne Michaels gets to have that she doesn't is he's much more insulated from the outside world. Right. Like, yeah, people can say SNL sucks, but he people have been saying it sucks since 1976. So who cares? Right. And that's another energy and that that loyalty that I asked for. I read the book recently and I was always blown away and by the story that, you know, he didn't give John Malini weekend update. John Malini, who had been the head writer, who had been crushing every monologue, had been having so much success as a stand up. And there's this moment where they're looking for a new anchor and he didn't give them the job. And that's when Malini left. And yet he's been back and guest hosted and is like, I think as much of a staple on the show as like Buck Henry was in the early 70s and is incredibly talented. But like, that's the same level of betrayal in my mind. Yeah, no, it is true. And it means it puts it the weight on you to make that choice. It all comes back to choice. Will you stay? Will you go? And if you go, how are you going to make the most of it? Yeah. All right. So and then I guess the other character would be Emily Blunt. I hope she succeeds. Honestly, I think she has worked so hard for it. I almost wonder if her character's name is Emily, like the way that Mary is just calling everybody in that office, Emily. Like she might just she is the personality who could probably be named Carlotta. She's like, I'm Emily now. I do not care. But yes. What if what if Emily has become Nigel and Nigel is like an elevated Nigel? Like it's an like, you know, like I don't know what that spot is, but there is a new spot like and here's the bad pitch. Like he's the head of Vogue Online. Right. That's kind of how I feel like we would see him. He's he's the fashion director, right? So, where does he go? I mean, can he go? Like, can he create a rival magazine? I mean, Anna Wintour in real life real just retired. Retired. I mean, not really. She's like the way I think the artistic director now of all of Condé Nast. Yeah, but they hired somebody in real life for Vogue magazine last year, who is in the key of what happens in the movie is like young French American, she's Candice Bergen's daughter is now the new head of Vogue, which is just like the biggest set of Manolo's to fill. I don't know how anybody does that. So I feel like based on both you and I knowing nothing, the only thing that I have seen so far is Adrian Gernet doing a Starbucks commercial about not being in the movie. That's the only thing I know. Yes. See, you are a completist. I am. I've seen it all. I guess I was also kind of wondering and maybe this is outside of our conversation, but worth to bring it up. Well, what happened to the writer? The woman who wrote the book, which was Lauren Weisberger, right? Because I'm kind of fascinated. She sold this book in 2006. And where does she go from here? Yeah, I mean, I know that she wrote a sequel to, right? But I don't know what she did in between. I think I feel like she I kept seeing maybe her name pop up in like book review section. So I assume she kept writing. You know, looking at a very quick Wikipedia, she, you know, wrote a follow up book where she got a million dollar advance for a book called Everyone Worth Knowing, which was based on the trials and tribulations of New York City public relations world. And then she had a third novel come out in 2008, which was another kind of New York book about people turning 30. And that book was secured by Universal to be a film, but it was voted the number one worst book of 2008 by Entertainment Weekly. And then she wrote last night at Chateau-Mormon, which came out in 2010. She wrote Revenge Wears Prada, a sequel to the Devil Wears Prada, which came out in 2013. Wrote another book called Singles Game and it kind of goes on and on. Our last book was Where the Grass is Green and the Girls Are Pretty, released in 2021. So there you go. I mean, interesting, you know, like, she has had a great success as someone who's been able to see someone who's been able to sell books, but I believe that a lot of her books maybe aren't giving people that little like adrenaline, that little dopamine kick from the first book, you know, she that might have been the story that she had. Yeah, well, it's a good one. And if it bought her the freedom to be able to make her living as a writer for the rest of it, then it didn't stop, right? Absolutely. I mean, absolutely. And like, and I think that I'm so curious about the difference between the book and the film, because as we talked about it, it seems like so many people came in to make sure that this was actually something different. And I feel like as we talked about Hamnet, this idea that like when actors, directors and writers and producers see someone like Anna Wintour, they deal with them a little bit more with kid gloves, right? Like, I want to be the exceptional person. I want to be like this. And so I think that, you know, having everybody layer this character as an excuse for being bad at your own personal life, which is I think something that's always going on with people in at least entertainment industry, like you actually get a cleaner, fairer or more interesting nuance performance. Then just a kill piece because you're saying Meryl Streep, the director and the producers of this film are all very much hands on about making sure this wasn't a slam piece. Yeah. And I mean, I want to see what a grown up Anne Hathaway, who I think is so good in this original, does like twice her life later, basically. Like, she's twice as old as she was when this came out, essentially. Twenty years later, where is she in her early 40s? Good choices. I think Anna's, I really think Anna's one of like our all time great actors. I mean, I just saw Mother Mary the other day, like the one where she's playing a pop star in a David Lowry film. She just goes for it. Like, there is no such thing as a bad at Hathaway. Oh, they did a great job. The choreography is wonderful. The costuming is wonderful. The costuming is by Bina Daigler, who was on the Berlin jury with me. And she's just the absolute best. I love Bina. But yeah, I love Anna. Like, I think, I think Anne Hathaway has great taste and I'm, she controls this movie so well, you know, with like her empathy, your eyes are glow. She does it. She like really lives up to the part and I cannot wait to see what she is like as a grown up going back to this world. Well, do you think that she's more like Miranda Priestly or her own version of Miranda Priestly? I don't know. I don't know what would be fulfilling, I think. Yeah, I want to say she's like Christian. Oh, a name brand freelance writer who can call her own shots. Honestly, I think that's the, the best way I would like to see her. Somebody who has retained that integrity, but yet has managed to be successful because I think that's what the movie really rests on is where can you find your success and keep your personal integrity? Because if she gives up her personal integrity, then why watch? Right? Okay. The last question though, like I haven't looked this up either because I haven't looked up anything about, I like deliberately I'm staying off any IMD because I don't want to know who's in the film. What about her friendship with Tracy Towns? Because like that girl contributing to the I'm keeping your phone away from you thing. I don't know if I could even forgive my friends, but they've been friends for 16 years. So I don't know. I mean, but the trauma of this scene, I'm still mad. I got it. It's- yup- the Dragon-A-D- Let me talk to her. No. Okay, I need that. I'm telling her to get her own scrambled egg. Lily, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. What's that thing on? What's that thing on? What's that thing on? What's that thing on? What's that on? What's that on? What's that on? What's that on? What's that on? Hi, Miranda. Ooh. Like, I can kind of get your female friend being like, you're different, you dress different. Really seeing her canoodling with Christian, not knowing what to make about it. But female friendships are so hard. I wonder if they're going to have forgiven each other. I wonder if the movie does something where it's much more about like, oh, she keeps me grounded. Here's my old friend, but they don't have it anymore. My movie sense says you gotta bring her back, right? Like from a narrative point of view, that's the only character outside of the world that you need to bring back. And I would say that she's the one, yeah. I'm gonna say she keeps her grounded. Although I will say, you know, Aileen Brosh McKenna does a great job of, you know, you know, I think tricking my expectations. So I'm curious, maybe she learned from her. Maybe she's like her, I don't know. But I'm gonna say that she's gonna be the grounding force in her life to be like, you gotta stay on feet on the ground. Okay, we know it. We'll probably do a summer check-in with the blockbusters later on. So after we catch up with this one, we will check by getting to see what we say. I love it. I just wanna talk about, as we wrap it up here, Anna Wintour's reaction to the film and the book, right? Anna Wintour did go to the premiere dressed in Prada. And she's like, I don't know. I don't know how I will be portrayed in this. And her reaction to the character, I guess. I don't know if this is a full quote or just the way that people have intuited how she felt was that she felt it was a caricature and cartoonish. And that all of her friends that were worried about her needn't be, it was sweet of them to be, but whatever. And then I think many years later, she said, and I think this is kind of the difference between when you asked me earlier, like what does Anne Hathaway think about like Simon Baker's betrayal of her? And I think it's, I said it's things at first, but later on, I think she gets over it. And I think that later on when Anna podcast, Anna Wintour said the movie was highly entertaining and called it a fair shot. And she did not feel wounded by the depiction. Now, I don't think that she would ever express it, but I think that she could maybe 20 years later see that version of her and appreciate it more. I think that's fair. I mean, the best way to get through the world having a public version of you that some people might think it's a character or a parody before they realize that it might just be a nice way into the truth of the situation is to put it on like a jacket and then take it off when you don't want to wear anymore and throw it on somebody else's desk. Right, because the truth is this character is for lack of a better term, cool. Right, Miranda Prisley, you don't leave this movie going, what a bitch, right? You know, like I think you leave going, like this is a really complicated successful woman. And it's something that we don't often see that much, you know, in film this way. And I feel like that's kind of the best compliment you can give is like, oh yeah, Meryl Streep played me and is one of the defining characters of cinema. When you think about villain or, you know, and villain is such a tough word, but when you think about like a boss character, she is up there. And really, I mean, this movie is Meryl Streep. And I think when you have a performance like that, why not? Why not embrace it? Well, yeah, I think her willingness to do an entire scene without makeup to show the characters vulnerability without her having to say, I'm vulnerable, to do it just physically with her face, letting us see Meryl Streep without makeup. Like that's bold and brave and really naked and revealing. And I think it's so powerful that she was able to do that. Who was the chef that wore crocs all the time and Batali? I love crocs. Yeah. That's what I think what happened to Adrian Grenet. Oh, he's a, he got canceled, right? Yeah. He's a creep, he's a creep. Yeah, just make sure he's a creep. On the long list of creeps, he's on it, right? Yeah. Yes, yes. Yeah, a guy like that who thinks he's very handsome as a chef doesn't make a lot of smart decisions, I would bet. Come on, you're gonna be answering phones and getting coffee. You need a ball gown for that? I think I might. Well, I happen to think you look great always. Aw. I think you're following that. Okay, I have a pitch to you of the movie I want to do next. This is like very sudden. I'm really insisting on wanting to do this all of a sudden. And I hope you say yes. There's one other movie that I think really gets to this dilemma of like, should I stay, should I go? Is my job worth it? Is it not? Well, there's two. What if we already did the apartment? But what if we do the modern apartment? What if we do Jerry McGuire? Amy, I am so excited that you have brought this up because it just celebrated its 30th anniversary, I believe, and was just re-released in theaters. And I was like, I haven't watched Jerry McGuire since it came out. And I was like, guys, theaters, I always want to do a Tom Cruise, but okay, yeah. Oh, Amy, I'm very excited about this. I am a fan. I am excited to, well, we'll see if I'm still a fan. I was a fan of it. And I feel like it's an interesting film about career and cynicism and getting ahead and kind of betting on yourself. I love, I think that this is a really interesting companion piece. Oh, I'm so glad that you're on board. Okay, perfect. Excellent. Well, we will continue our conversation about the Devil Wears product on our Substack. You can also follow us on social media where we are pulling together really cool stuff from episodes past. We found old, deleted things from The Truman Show. You can check that out. Really fun DVD special features. Our Substack is full of great pictures and things that we can't always include in these episodes. So make sure you check that out. You just go to unspooledpodcast.com to get all the quick links or just search for us on Substack. All right, Jeremy Guire is the next film that will be available wherever you get your streaming films. I believe right now it is on Netflix. So if you have a Netflix account, check that out. And by the way, if you're there Black Monday just got put out on Netflix. So there you go. Get a double dip. It's such a good show. It's such a good show. It's been fun. I've been watching it again. I haven't watched a show that I've been in in such a long time that I, I'm enjoying it from a very neutral point of view. So yeah, it's been fun. And I want to say if you're a Devil Wears Prada fan and you have not started watching Mario Has Money Problems on Apple Plus, the new fanning show about a girl who wants to be a writer, try to make it and having to get in OnlyFans. It's amazing. Oh my God, has the best Michelle Pfeiffer I've ever seen. My best girl Eva Anderson is on the big phrase behind it. And it's just wonderful. So watch this. I was at the South By Premier. So freaking funny. I cannot wait to see this. I've been very excited. I got to just start checking out another pit. So I can dive in. Yeah, come to us. On Spooled is produced by Amy Nicholson, Paul Shear, Molly Reynolds and Harry Nelson. Sound engineered by Corey Barton. Music by Devon Bryant. Episode art by Kim Troxel. Show art by Lee Jamison. And social media production by Zoe Applebaum. This is a Rome production. See you next week. Bye for now. The paranormal mysteries of liminal London. And the cyberpunk chaos of Cyborg. Fall in love with our core cast. Or be awed by our incredible guests from familiar shows like OXVENTIER, Three Black Halflings and No Rolls Bard. Ignite your imagination and discover the realms of Feral and Glory today. Go to realmspod.com or search realms of Feral and Glory wherever you listen to podcasts. There are vampires out there. They walk among you, shoulder to shoulder in the dark. Heading to work, heading home, going to the bar. It's a life just like anyone else's. And I have grown used to it. To the darkness, to the moon, to the taste of blood on my tongue. But vampires are dying out. 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