#606 - Labor & Delivery Nurse Jen Hamilton Shares Birth Stories, Judging Bobby for Not Cutting the Cord & New Mom Advice

This is an I Heart podcast. Guaranteed human. But she looked like she was not having a good time. And she's like, get this thing out of me. I was like, OK, so I go to pull it out and I pull it out. I was like, oh my goodness, you probably feel so much better. And she's like, no. Today's guest is Jen Hamilton. She is wildly popular. She's a labor and delivery nurse with over a decade of experience and a massive online following. I told some of my friends that I had Jen Hamilton coming on and they freaked out she's that popular. And her whole goal is to pull back the curtain on what really happens in the delivery room. She has a new book out now called Birth Vibes. And it's all about ditching the perfect birth plan and learning how to actually advocate for yourself when things maybe don't go the way that you expected. And so we're going to talk about a lot of that. And I just had a baby. And again, I cannot emphasize to you how excited so many of my friends were about this interview and you'll see she's awesome. We talk labor surprises, postpartum realities and the biggest myths about birth. And let's do it now here. She has the great, the funny, the hilarious, the knowledgeable, Jen Hamilton. Hey, Jen, I'm Bobby. How are you? Hey, Bobby. Nice to see you. I'm going to start with we just had a baby first baby. So congratulations. Thank you. We're six weeks, six, six week baby, very, very small baby. You're in it. You're in it right now. Yeah, we're in it, which is how you came into my world is my wife is a massive fan and we're, you know, just talking about what I found interesting. And she said, you should really talk to Jen Hamilton because I have to tell you, I have a fascination now with labor delivery nurses, nurses, because we had the greatest one. So that, that is still what you do, right? Is that your everyday job? Yeah, that's my everyday job. So I, I still work. I still do the stuff. And it's just like the thing that I love doing the most. We went into the hospital and I didn't really know what to expect other than what friends had told me. And I never realized how important and how comforting a great labor and delivery nurses, because I thought we had all these appointments with the doctor and the doctor was great, but the doctor just comes into the close. It's a closer. Like it's you guys that do all the work, all the making us feel comfortable, all the being there. I did not know that until this trip. And so we had the greatest labor and delivery nurse. And is it my first question to you? It's kind of a selfish one. If I wanted to send a gift up to her because she was awesome. Is that okay? Absolutely. I mean, I think that's the thing that I didn't expect whenever I kind of switch from ER to labor and delivery, because we never got gifts in the year. I'll tell you that. But, um, yeah, I think that it's such a nice thing to do. I'll tell you what means probably the most to her is if you have any pictures with her in it, I think that that's so, I love getting pictures of, you know, of me in action. So if you have any pictures and then also you can nominate her for like a Daisy award if, you know, if she really made your experience awesome. That's kind of like a way that labor and delivery nurses can get recognized. But then also if you just want to give her something tangible, we do, we do like snacks and things. And so sometimes people will do that, but you absolutely don't. I know that she would have me tell you, you don't have to do any of those things, but it's so nice that you're thinking about that. Yeah, I, you know, don't feel like I have to. That's why I want to. I'm the kind of person. If I'm told I have to, then I definitely don't want to do it at all. Right. Yeah. She was such a game changer because one, she was great for my wife, meaning it was always calm. Her bedside manner was amazing. But when it was time, like business time, and I did a lot of learning over the past six or seven months, I didn't even know what, you know, being dilated. I don't any of that. Right. Yeah. And so whenever it was like time to go, like 10 centimeters dilated, like she was like focused business, like she did the work, not that the doctor did it, but she was there the whole time from the beginning until the end. How many do you think you've done? Births? Yeah. Uh, man, I've been doing it for eight years and, you know, working every weekend. And so sometimes, and sometimes you're in births that it's not actually your patient either. So maybe like at least three a day that I'm, that I'm in. So I don't know. I don't even know the math on that. A whole bunch of babies for sure. Hmm. I feel like everyone thinks their baby is cute. Are there cuter babies than others? I'll say that some babies have a rough ride, you know, they come into the world and they, they, they look a little road hard put up way kind of thing. Sometimes they're a little swollen in their face or bruised or, you know, and then some babies just shoot out and they look like they, you know, were sent by an angel, you know, but, uh, yeah, some, some babies have, have it rough coming in. You did ER before labor and delivery, not, and I understand it's not the same, but not the same at all. Were you doing a completely different kind of anybody that comes in you were taking care of as a nurse? Yeah. So in the ER, I, I did not want to take care of anybody who was pregnant because I was afraid that they were going to birth in front of me. And I knew nothing about that. So ER nurses are very, uh, allergic to pregnant people. Like we very much want them to go somewhere else. So being on labor and delivery, it was very much a learning curve and having to figure out this whole new specialty. But that's, I think the beauty of nursing is that you can go from doing one thing to doing something completely different, uh, but still have the same degree. Whenever you started doing labor and delivery, did it feel like something that you had always been meant to do? Or was it something you were good at? I think it was something that I didn't expect to be good at. Um, whenever I was in nursing school, I remember on my labor and delivery clinical thinking like, this sure is a wet place to work. You know, that was, that was what I remembered most is like, holy cow. There's a lot of fluid here. So I wasn't particularly like excited about it whenever I was in nursing school and me going from the ER to labor and delivery was really honestly just trying to, trying to escape the ER because it was just so emotionally, physically, everything a lot. And so I think that going into labor and delivery was something that I was unexpectedly excited that I was okay at because I think that what I was looking for was that connection that I had, um, with people that I didn't really get to do in the ER. Do you feel the need to make it special for every person, even though you're doing three a day into you? It is not, it's not just a job, but you're doing a lot of them. So they all aren't so precious, but to make sure they know how precious it is. Like, is that something you have to do? I absolutely feel it's such an honor to be with every single person. And I really take, uh, take it seriously in order to make it special for, especially the people who may feel neglected or like that they wouldn't normally get that experience. So for instance, someone who doesn't speak English, one of the things that I love to do is I give every patient that I care for promises. And one of those promises is I promise to speak to you in the same way that I would someone who speaks my language so that you feel like you're cared for as a friend. So I know that the interpreters where I work sometimes get a little probably frustrated with me because I don't just want to know like what, uh, how was your pregnancy? Do you have any medical problems? I want to know like, what's your favorite color? Like, what do you like to eat? What do you like to do so that I can make that experience as special for them as I possibly can. Have you had people come in and you were their nurse and they knew who you were from social media? Oh, it happens. So often now, whenever it first started happening, it was kind of like that moment where I was like, Oh man, this is, this is real. Like I, you know, there's a lot of people who, who'd know me now. Um, but now I'd have to say that in all the, the rooms that I go in, cause I'm also a charge nurse and I work in the OR, like I work in a lot of different places. Um, I'd say that there's at least three patients that I'll see at some point in my day that, that do recognize that I'm a nurse. Um, and I, I find that such an honor, like to see on the back end, like the effect that, you know, me talking about labor and delivery has on people in real life. And so it's such an honor to, uh, to meet these people. How did it start for you online? Oh yeah. So in the pandemic time, I had a lot of boredom and I was just trying to, I mean, I think we were all kind of just like, how did you get to all kind of just like homeschooling our kids at home and, uh, really bored. And so I had a friend that said, Hey, why don't you download TikTok? Like this is a really fun app. And I really didn't have any interest in downloading another app cause I was already too much online. Um, but since we had a pandemic, I was like, okay, I'll do that. So I first just wanted to be, uh, just watching videos. And then my very first video was me pressing the plus button to see what that was all about at the bottom. But, uh, and it never started with labor and delivery either. I just kind of started making silly videos about being a mom or, uh, being a nurse. And then, um, I recognized how many patients were getting their prenatal education from TikTok. And I saw the effects of when they were getting that from somebody who maybe didn't have their best interest at heart and then thought, if they're getting it from TikTok, I might as well be here helping them. So, uh, I started talking more about labor and delivery too. Did you have a specific video that popped off the most that made you feel like there is something to this that you can help people? Well, I think that the videos that have popped off along the way definitely are videos that maybe didn't have a lot to do with labor and delivery. But then they helped me find people who, who needed some labor and delivery content. So I think that one of them was me swaddling my chickens because I like to swaddle things as a labor and delivery nurse. So, you know, one of those videos had like, I don't know, 43 million views or something crazy. And so a lot of people find me in other ways that don't have to specifically do with the labor and delivery education of it. Uh, but then they're like, Oh, she also does this other thing. So I did a poll on my Instagram. I was like, Hey, how many of you guys follow me? Cause labor and because of labor and delivery, and then how many of you follow me for something else? And it was like, the split was like 13% labor and delivery, 87% something else. So like other people find me mostly through other things and then figure out later that I do labor and delivery. I see a lot of things about parenthood now that I am a brand new dad in my algorithm and we swaddle our baby and she loves it. But I will see people say swaddling is bad because it restrains them. Uh, we don't subscribe to that, but what are your thoughts on that? So I think everything in moderation, there, there's new stuff coming out right now that, uh, that says that swaddling is not the most awesome. However, it is cute. It is very cute. And, uh, sometimes it can help your baby to at least be, um, soothed or comforted, like if they're not having a great time. So I think that as long as you're not like, you know, swallow them every moment of every day, you know, I think that there, there can be some, some nice stuff with it too. I'd say we're probably about a total 30 minutes a day in the swaddle. Yeah. Yeah. Sometimes I just liked to, I like to be swaddled, you know, somebody swaddled me. I was watching a video that I thought was really compelling, pretty moving. And, and someone had, I guess left a message for you or, or maybe in DMs about like postpartum that they weren't doing well. And again, I have no experience with this until the last few weeks or so. And so I've been actually talking about it with my friends too. And I have one friend whose wife was extremely depressed. I, I, we've been very fortunate as my wife's been very emotional postpartum, but hers has been very, very, very positive, like so happy that it makes her very, very emotional. I guess my question is with someone who deals with it a lot, is it just a crap? Shoot on what's going to happen after you have the baby. It really just honestly depends. And you never know how it's going to affect you until you meet yourself postpartum. I'll say that I think at least in my personal perspective, I think that there's a lot of postpartum depression and anxiety that begins from not having an awesome birth experience or one that you truly understand or having a lot of questions around what happened to you. So I try to do my part with the patients that I take care of and not only making sure that they fully understand what's happening, that they have autonomy over their choices and over their body, but also helping them understand what things they may experience in the postpartum period as far as looking for those signs of, you know, those intrusive thoughts. And sometimes you think of things that you never, ever thought you would like, what if I put my baby in the freezer? Like, of course that's something you're not going to act on, but it could be if, if you kind of let these things linger. So I let that kind of be like the trigger to say, Hey, I'm having thoughts that I never thought that I would, or like if you feel like you're not even able to relax or you're not able to, to feel joy in these moments that you feel like you, that you normally would, that letting your people around you know how you're feeling, especially letting your care team know how you're feeling and that there are resources available for people. One of the resources that my sister had to use was something called postpartum support international or PSI. They have an incredible network of resources to help new moms who are struggling with these feelings, be able to get connected to those resources and find a way out because yes, postpartum depression and anxiety and sometimes even psychosis does affect a lot of people, but it doesn't mean that it has to take hold and become such a huge part of your life. Like there are resources in the sooner that you recognize that you're feeling off and the sooner you get help, the sooner you can feel better. Is that something too, where if you go and you're pursuing medication that there's not like a single medication that fixes it, right? Is it something that at times you may have to bounce around until you find the right thing? Yeah. I mean, there's definitely some that they, that they can start with or that are more popular than others. But the beauty of getting help is that your care provider can work with you to figure out what the right combination, if there is a combination or the right medication, the right resources that are available so that you can find what works for you. It's not always a one size fits all. Let's take a quick pause for a message from our sponsor. And we're back on the Bobby cast. We were talking about your book. So when did you decide you wanted to write a book and how do you know where to start? Oh, that's a good question. I didn't know that I wanted to write a book and it wasn't until I had publishers reaching out saying like, Hey, what do you think you should write a book? That I kind of, my first reaction was like, I don't even write in a journal. I don't know that you want me to write a book. And through that process, I had a friend, had a few friends that had written the books and kind of got me with the right people to kind of have my back through this process. And I wrote a sample. And so that sample was just like one chapter of a book that I hoped to write something. And through that, being able to kind of think about stories that I would want to tell or themes that I would want people to know. And it was so cathartic in being able to write down things that had actually happened to me in real life. Of course, everything is like HIPAA compliant, but they're, these are all real things that I've experienced as a nurse. Um, but being able to, to write those down and be able to get those out of my head, I feel like is, is a form of therapy for me. And then also my publisher giving me the freedom to talk in my book, how I talk in real life. It was so awesome because like one of the first things that I had written in my book that got edits back. So what I do, what I would do is like, I would write a chapter and then I'd send it to a book coach who would go through and kind of edit it for, you know, grammar and structure and everything. And one of the first edits I got back from her was that I had written titties in the wind and she, she crossed it out and put naked. And I was like, absolutely not. Absolutely not. It is titties in the wind. Okay. So I write how I talk, I write how I talk to my patients. And so having a publisher that could see past like the formality, the professionalism of what you might normally see in a healthcare book, uh, to be able to talk to people how I normally do was so awesome and so freeing. So I'm, I'm very happy with what we, what we ended with. Where did you grow up? I'm in North Carolina. So I've always been born raised here, uh, in central North Carolina. And where did you go to college for nursing school? I went to Liberty University in Lynchburg, Virginia, which has a lot of controversy. Oh, is that the, is that the fall all the, um, yes, I'm not like, I'm not like them. Okay. I need to say that. Were you there when that happened? I was there when the, the little one, Falwell, Jr. Yeah. When he took over. Okay. And I knew that when we, so every, every week we'd have to go to church, like three times a week, that was mandatory. So Monday was a Friday called convocation. We'd have to go there. So I get there and broke it's up in front of everybody and says to the boys, look around. If you can't find a wife here, you're a loser. I was like, Oh, this is different. So I knew that was, I knew there was some weirdness going on from the job, but you never know to like, if you ever watched those documentaries or listen to the podcast about it, whoo. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's the hobbies. Yeah. The, that's the pull boys thing. Right. The, yeah. The pull boys. Yeah. Uh huh. Yeah. That's wild. Did you meet your husband there? I met my husband at victory junction camp. Have you heard of it? No. So it's a, it's a camp for kids with chronic and terminal illnesses. And we were both camp counselors there. It's a NASCAR camp. So it's, uh, it was made by Richard Petty's son, Kyle Petty, in honor of, uh, there of Kyle Petty's son, Adam. And it's like Disney World. So I mean, the amount of time and money and resources that's put into this camp gives these kids that wouldn't normally have like a summer camp experience because they have cancer or diabetes or, uh, kidney failure. It gives them a medically safe summer camp environment. And, uh, it was amazing. I worked there for three years and that's where I met my husband and then found out that we actually went to school together. As in what school? High school college. As in Liberty. Oh. As in, as in that place. So he did look around and did find a wife, just maybe not at school. Yes. He did. It wasn't exactly there, but we went back there. Yeah. What is his relationship with your notoriety now? He's such like a private guy. And the other thing is I have never wanted to or, uh, tried to put my family out in the wilderness like I am. Um, so he interacts with my, uh, social media stuff in the way of like silent support in the background. You know, like he, he listens to me. He goes with me to my stuff. Um, but he is very much like protector and, uh, quiet support in the background. But he is definitely not a forefront guy. I know you guys, when you're doing your job, you're, you're dialed in, you're focused. Have you had an incident, I want to say incident, an instance that it was so positive that it made you emotional. Oh, for sure. All the time, all the time. And not just, you know, at work, cause like at work, I'll have those moments all the time. Something that really gets me is when the dads cry. Oh, so sweet. Especially if you have a dad that's like really stoic the whole day and then the baby comes out and they start booing, gets me. Um, but then also like seeing people out in the wild who have interacted with, uh, my social media stuff. If there's anything that they had happened to them, that I helped them through and hearing their stories. It's, I mean, what an honor it is to hear people's stories. Um, when they have had something that I said impact them in any way. And I'm sure you've done it all, but when a baby's coming out the opposite way, is that breached? Is that, is that breached? Yeah. Yeah. There's a few different ways that they can come out, but breach is the, is the butt first or feet first. So when that's happening, how does protocol change? Well, a lot of OB's in our country are not as comfortable with a baby coming out that way. Um, if you've had a baby before vaginally and they're breach, you may have, you may be able to find a doctor who's like, Hey, I'm okay with us attempting a vaginal delivery. The, the concern is that the biggest part of a baby is their head. So if you're coming out butt first, you can get at, you know, every part of the baby out, except for their head. And then obviously that's an emergency. Um, but there's a lot of doctors who will go straight to, okay, your baby's breach where we need to have a C section. So I've been in plenty of vaginal breach deliveries. I think they're beautiful and awesome. Of course they come with risk. C sections also come with risk. So it's just about having a, a confident OB provider who's going to help you through that process and being able to make the decision. That's right for you. One of my friends is a singer named Lauren Elena and her and I were talking about her having a baby and she said, and there's a clip of it, but she said when her baby was coming out, that it was wrapped up completely in the umbilical cord, like around her leg, around the baby's neck. How common is that where that happens? 30%. Oh, it's that common. Yeah. Yeah. There's a lot of people who, you know, come into the hospital with very traumatic stories of like my baby last time had the cord wrapped around its neck and it's so, so common. So I think that there can be some trauma from hearing like, cause I think that people think that the baby's being a strangled or choked in some way. And it's not necessarily that. That's the danger. It's how, so the, the umbilical cord is like the baby's hose of life. Right. So it's got three vessels inside and think of it like, like a scrunchie. Okay. So like it's nice and fluffy here. If I pull it tight, then it, there's less, uh, there's more constriction on those blood vessels, so they can't, uh, they can't get the blood, the oxygenated blood through and the deoxygenated blood back. So it's more about how tightly wrapped that, uh, that cord is, but 30% of babies have a cord wrapped somewhere. And usually what will happen is like baby's head comes out and if we feel, I say we, if the doctor or midwife feels, uh, that there's a cord right there around the neck, what they'll do is they'll just gently untangle and usually all as well. I'm not saying that it can't be dangerous, right? So if they're tightly, tightly, tightly wrapped in there several times, or if, uh, the cord is really short and they're like basically bungee jumping from the, from the placenta, like obviously that could be not awesome, but most of the time if a baby has a cord wrapped somewhere, it's not a huge deal. Can be, but not most of the time. Have you been a part of one where it was surprised twins? No, but it did happen at my hospital one time. I wasn't in there, but it was somebody that came in with no prenatal care. And the first baby came out and they said, uh-oh. There's another one. Yeah, that's crazy. Uh, so what do you think, and you may not have official records on this. Have you had a, that's the fastest delivery we've ever had. Oh man. I mean, yes. I mean, sometimes people come in and they're riding on one butt cheek coming up and then they, they deliver like as soon as they get there. It just comes out. Just comes out. I did have the fastest induction I ever had was someone who, um, had been, sometimes you get put on hold. Like if you're, if you're scheduled for an induction in the hospital, it doesn't have either the staff or the room. They'll leave you at home for your induction. Um, but there was a girl that had, uh, something called a fully balloon placed in the office to prepare her for her induction. It kind of just gets you going. Does it open? I learned about this. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It helps open it up. And usually when you're like three to four ish centimeters, that fully balloon will fall out and they tell you, all right, come to the hospital if it falls out, because that means that you're, you know, making change. Well, she came to the hospital for her scheduled induction and it was still in, but she looked like she was not having a good time. And she's like, get this thing out of me. I was like, okay. So I go to pull it out and I pull it out. I was like, Oh my goodness, you probably feel so much better. And she's like, no. And then the baby came out right after the fully balloon. So it was just in there, not in place. And then the baby came out right after that. I was like, Oh, okay. There's the baby. So the balloon was kind of clogging the hole until the baby. What about on the opposite side? Have you had any really long ones? Oh man. Yeah. The longest induction I ever had was five days. Oh. Yeah. Five days and ended in a C-section. Oh my goodness. Yeah. I think that there's a lot of people who think that OBs are just itching to get you a C-section. In my experience, it can be the exact opposite. And sometimes like we're not doing them when you might expect someone to have a C-section. So a lot of the providers where I work will give you the best chance at a vaginal delivery that you can have while, you know, there's other, it just depends on the doctor, right? So sometimes you'll have a doctor that goes straight for that at the first sign of trouble and then you have other doctors who will give you the biggest chance at a vaginal delivery. But yeah, that was a long one. I felt for. And you, but you went home multiple times, right? You like you weren't there at beginning and end, right? Correct. Correct. Yeah. Yeah. You're also to toothpick in your eyes open to stay for five days. That would be crazy. Okay. My one of my really good friends, Amy, has asked me to ask you three questions. So these are from her. Number one, how did you get the best personality in the world? Oh my goodness. That's so sweet. I think that other people have much cooler personalities than I. That's so kind. I guess I have to attribute anything that I have to my my parental's. I think they did a good job. Number two. And then, and then also ER trauma. I think that going through stuff kind of gives you a different kind of sense of humor that other people might not understand. So I think that going through stuff can also make you who you are. Uh, number two, how excited were you to meet Dr. Beach, Jim 10 on your book tour? I don't know who that is. So you have to know. Has it happened? Has it happened yet? Okay. I'm so excited. So she is a TikTok pediatrician. She's lovely and I cannot wait to meet her. She's going to be, um, like hosting one of my book tour stops. So I'm very excited. Uh, the third question is tell her, I'm sorry to hear about her grandmother. It lost us so hard in her story about her hanging on for life for so many times made her smile on the inside and then cry because, um, she doesn't know you, but she felt like she does. Oh, that is so sweet. Yeah. I, um, my grandmother, she passed away last year, but we called her a possum. Or the possum lady, cause this lady kept acting like she was going to die and then pulling through, not just pulling through like, okay, I'm going to, I'm going to eat a Bojungles biscuit. You know, like she got kicked out of hospice. I don't know how, how often that happens, but like, she was in the hospice house. They're like, Oh, she's going to pass away tonight. She stayed there for months and they're like, okay, you got to go. So yeah, it was, it was awesome to have that extra time with her. Uh, but yeah, we called her the possum lady. The Bobby cast will be right back. This is the Bobby cast. More kind of clinical technical questions. What's something you wish that every first time mom knew before going into labor or something fundamental? I think that, and this is kind of like a group of things, but I think that having understanding of different intervention choices that you may be offered can help, help you inform your decisions going forward. There's so many people who sign up for an induction who have no clue what that means. Sometimes I'll get somebody who signed up for an induction and they, they say, this is going to take like 20 minutes. And I'm like, Oh Lord, we are in trouble. Uh-oh. You have no idea what's about to happen to you. So I think that having some basic understanding of both inductions and then also interventions that may be offered to you can help. If that intervention gets offered, you kind of have some sort of basic understanding of it. So it's kind of like a group of things. How long do you think it takes? And this is all general, but until after someone has a baby, they start to feel like themselves again. Hmm. So individual, but for me, at least for me. I had preeclampsia with my second one. So I looked like a sweaty Danny DeVito whenever I was having a baby. So the moment that I was unpregnant and began peeing out the fluid that had plagued me for so long, I felt like Julia Roberts and pretty woman. Okay. I felt amazing almost immediately to the point where my husband was like, damn, like, you're all right. I felt incredible. I may not have looked awesome, but man, I felt so good. But then in other, in another pregnancy, it took me several weeks to feel like I could put pants on or, and they were still maternity pants. But, um, I think, and I also have, have friends that take months to feel like themselves. And sometimes you just adapt to the new normal of what it means to be the new you. Um, and it doesn't mean that that's anything wrong or bad, but sometimes there is some grief associated with learning who the new view is and kind of grieving the, the old you, whether that's your body or your lifestyle or the, the things that you enjoyed before is sometimes it just changes and, uh, you've got new things that you enjoy differently. Do you ever see parents semi-panicking when they have to leave because now they have to take the baby home? Oh yeah. Oh yeah. Because you've got a new human and we are now interesting you to keep that human alive and there's so much about being a new parent that you don't know, you know, uh, and having to figure that out on your own is terrifying. I remember even when I was, I was an ER nurse and we're leaving the hospital and I'm like, y'all trust me to do this? Cause I don't know anything about this. And, uh, yeah, I think that in other countries, there's a whole lot more support postpartum to kind of make sure that you're, you're getting everything that you need. But in the U S we're like, here you go. Take it home. It's yours. Yeah. Rub some dirt on it. Get back to work. It's crazy. I never really had a full understanding of I think what a woman after she has birth should fairly get as far as being able to stay off work and be paid. Like we have a law that you can't be fired, but you're not getting paid. And if you have to work hourly, like you're screwed and also support, like I never as a dude, again, just had my first kid, but I never really thought paternity leave was something. I, I, I knew it was something I never really thought of something you needed. No, you, you, you really need good support there with you to help you for weeks. And you're, you're right. We are so far behind as a country when it comes to covering our citizens, maternity and paternity leave. And I had no idea until we had a baby. Yeah. As a, even, I mean, like I am a nurse and delivering at the hospital where I work, you know, whenever I had my baby, because I had to go out early, because I had preeclampsia, I burned through, you know, a few weeks of maternity leave and ended up having to go back at like four and a half, five weeks postpartum just because I needed to work to afford insurance. So I, I mean, and this is, I'm a nurse at the hospital where I have my baby. You know, it's so crazy that I needed to do that in this country where you would think that we have amazing, you know, care. And I think we have amazing care providers. We have amazing people that want to give the care, but the system is just so broken that, you know, I have patients that say, I need to be discharged tomorrow because I have to go to work tomorrow. Like it's wild, but, you know, some people can't even take a day off of work without feeling like they need to get back in order to make money. Yeah. That's a whole conversation of man, we sure do buy a lot of bombs, but we can't take care of our health, our people with health care. Right. Right. That's a second podcast that we'd probably do. And so a couple of judgment things I'd like for you to judge me on one, I chose, I chose not to cut the cord because. Oh, okay. I thought there's a judgment. Yeah. The judgment already coming through. Okay. Continue. Give me the reasoning. So they asked, would you like to cut the cord to which I responded? Is there any literal benefit to me cutting this cord? They said, no. I said, I choose not to feel metal going through human flesh. So I will not cut the cord. If you tell me there is a something about this, for example, I did skin to skin because they told, I learned why that was important. I said, if there's something about cutting the cord that is a bond to my daughter and myself, if I'm in, but if it's literally just me taking metal and going through human flesh, I'm out. So I did not cut the cord. I will now accept your judgment. Okay. Do you regret it? Do you wish that you did? No, I don't want to cut through humans. I don't want to cut through skin. I don't know the benefit. It's not skin though. It's just like, it's just a write up passage. It's meat. You know? It is. Okay. I'll give you that. If they would have said you need to chew through it so you can really feel the love. I would have chewed through it before I would have cut it with scissors, because at least chewing through it, it'd been something primal. And yeah, I totally passed. How many dads pass on cutting the cord? More than, more than you would think, but I do often talk them into it sometimes because I think that there's a lot of dads who aren't expecting that question or like we're thinking about it. And then we're like, okay, you've got to cut the cord. You ready? And then they're like, whoa, whoa, that's not my job. And then we, you know, encourage. So what I like to do is say, where's your phone? We're documenting this moment. You know? So I, I love to video that moment because it is sometimes funny because they're like, like, making a face. Uh, but you know, it can be a write up passage. We had a dad, uh, last week or the week before there was like, well, I didn't cut it with the last one. I was like, new tradition, right? You can cut it with this one. So, but I'd say, five percent of dads turn us down. That's all. Yeah. Oh, wow. I'm very persuasive. What if I would have said, I will choose through the cord? Is that allowed? I mean, I've never seen that happen. I think you would definitely get some looks. I mean, I don't think I can stop you from doing that. Uh, I might have my own thoughts about that. I would keep them to myself. I'm all about informed and empowered decision making. So even if, even if you decide to do something that I wouldn't, I'd say you do you boo, let's say. Man, that would be crazy to watch someone chew through a cord like through the studio bill. That would be, I would get my phone out and want to record that just for the sake of it. Let's take a quick pause for a message from our sponsor. Yeah. And we're back on the Bobby cast. What are the rules on phones in the room? Because I did get in our delivery, the baby landing on my wife's chest, but I didn't know the rules. So I was just kind of, I wasn't hiding it, but I knew there were places I didn't need to be. Are there rules? There are rules. I will say this. I will say no one can make you do anything that you don't want to do. Um, for me personally, so the rules around recording a birth are all about liability, um, for the hospital and everyone involved. Um, for me, if I see, and I might get in trouble for saying this, but like, if I see someone recording during a birth, I keep a mouth shut. Like I don't, I don't personally care. Um, and what I'll tell them is like, Hey, I'm not going to say anything. You might have other people that do. Now it does get a little tricky for me because I, I very much like to not be known where I work or like, you know, cause that can put me in a, in a dangerous safety situation. So I, I'm starting to think more about like, Hey, if somebody puts you on the internet, like you wearing your, your outfit and your badge, like that can be a thing, but I try to hold myself to the standard where it doesn't matter if I'm being recorded or not. I'm going to act the exact same. I'm going to intervene in the way that I need to intervene. If something goes sideways. Um, and I feel like sometimes if you have a situation where something's going sideways and the people in the room who are working at the hospital are more concerned about whether you're recording or not, instead of doing what needs to happen for the patient, that can look a little yucky too. So I personally don't care, but a lot of people do. Something I've had to learn about recently is safe sleep. I just thought if you got a baby and it goes to sleep, if you want to go to sleep with it, it makes sense. I can't cause if I fall over on the baby, um, is it, I don't sleep at all. If I have the baby, it doesn't matter. I don't sleep at all. What are the rules of safe sleep? So there, I mean, the main thing is not having the baby in the bed with you. There's all sorts of like different rules that, you know, people sometimes do, do try to sleep with their babies still. And so there are rules around that also, but I'll tell you that people who would never expect to have, to have like a tragic thing happen. It happens. And so me as a labor and delivery nurse who also goes down to the emergency department when we have infants pass away, I go down there and help them, uh, kind of make shadow boxes or handprints and footprints of infants that, you know, they've, they've been born, they go home, they're with their parents. And then something tragic happens. They come back in and the baby has passed away for whatever reason. I will tell you that most of those are co-sleeping accidents. And yeah. And it's, it's parents that never thought, never thought that it would happen. So, and I'll say like, before I was a labor and delivery nurse, I co-sleeped with my kids cause I was like, oh, they're sleeping cool. And I'd like put them on my chest and then have like pillows on either side of me, just so that I didn't turn over. I would never, if I had another baby, which I won't, but if I did, I would never do it just because of what I have experienced as a nurse in helping people memorialize those babies. So it's, it's absolutely tragic when it happens. And I think that the biggest thing is making sure that they're not in the bed with you, that they're on their back and you don't have extra stuff around them, like pillows and blankets and stuff like that, because they can like breathe in their own air and then lose some oxygen that way. Wow. I have a couple more questions for you before we go. What do you think is the perfect hospital bag? The, I don't know what you've been called that, the birth bag. We, you know, what do we need? That's a good question. And it depends on who you are as a person. I talk about this in the book, but it can be so individualized. And you can also show up to the hospital, titties in the wind, not a stitch of clothes on you. And we, we got you. We can take care of you. We've got diapers for you and the baby, you know, uh, but biggest thing, chargers, man, I can't tell you how many people come in and say, uh-oh, I forgot my charger. And we don't keep chargers. Uh, but I'll say if wearing your own clothes is important to you, you can bring your own birth gown, you can wear whatever you want. Uh, we have, uh, mama and baby diapers. So you don't really have to worry about that. If you have, I really love it when people bring in, they make these like little fans with like a, like posable legs that you can like wrap around the hospital bed or kind of say, uh, stand up. Those are cool that people bring, um, playlists. And also if you're making a playlist, do not just do kumbaya music that you think will relax you because I can't tell you how many people make a kumbaya playlist. And they get so angry at the playlist when it's not helping them get through. I, I mean, we need like DMX, we need something like something else, you know, some hype up music, uh, make a few playlists in case you don't like the one that you've made. I did have a girl one time that played twinkle, twinkle little star for 12 hours. No way. Yes. Yes. That's like baby shark vibes over and over again. Like you can't shake it. Yeah. I thought I was going to go crazy, but I held it together. We got through it, but that was what, that's what got her through. Uh, what else can I tell you? Uh, we have scratchy towels, like smaller scratchy towels. So if you want to bring your own towels, that's cool. You don't have to, um, your own pillow, our pillows, our pillows are not going to cut it. However, you can make your environment in the hospital feel more like home, whether that's pillows, blankets, fan, uh, scents, like you have like, uh, essential oils or whatever you want to do. I think that it's more about making your environment feel like home instead of, uh, having to make sure you bring 47 baby outfits or all that kind of stuff. All that after stuff. Man, you don't really need it. Also don't, don't bring your stroller to labor and deliver. We're not going to stroll. We're not going to stroll. Uh, you can bring it late. You can bring it later whenever you're, whenever you're leaving or whatever, but you don't need it. People sometimes bring in like everything that they've brought for the first 18 years of this child's life into the hospital. We don't need all that. You're right about the blankets and the pillows. We luckily took those and very much needed the pillows were small in the hospital, the blankets were kind of scratchy, but man, it is so cold. And I, it's not my job to complain, but I was freezing. I was trying to get a little nap in. It's hard for me to get a little nap in because it was so cold in that room. Yep. Absolutely. And it's always freezing. And, uh, the couches kind of sucked for me to sleep on. Yeah. It's true. Not made for the man at all apparently. No. They're, they make like a dad bed, blow up things now. Have you seen that? No, that's something you buy and take with you. Yeah. Oh, I would recommend that then. Okay. Here's my advice for the bag. Put in whatever she's talking about because you'll get there and they have like this large pillow that flips down. That's kind of the bed, but I'm pretty tall and it was again, it's no comparison, but it's pretty miserable for me. You know, and so yeah, for the dad, take the little, take the blow up. Yeah. I also had, there's a dad that one time figured out that his, uh, gaming system would not hook up to our TV. He went out to Best Buy and got a 55 inch screen TV. No way. No way. Yes. And then Karma said, guess what? Cause when he opened it up, it was cracked. I said, ha, ha, that's what you get. Don't try to bring your 55 inch screen TV in there so you can play your freaking whatever you play on there. That's wild. Cause you won't be there long enough. GTA. Yeah. Oh yeah. Yeah. That stuff aggravates me, but it does happen. Don't do that. Don't be that guy. Congratulations on the book. Like what, what is it you want people to take from this book? So my goal is that this book helps you prepare for your birth in a way that builds this cocoon of safety around you so that no matter what happens, you still feel informed, empowered, respected, heard. I think that a lot of people plan their whole pregnancy for a birth that's going to check off a birth plan. And it's so much less about the check boxes and more about who you are as a person, what you need to feel safe, what you need to feel heard and respected. And so each of the chapters in this book in the first half go over a different vibe that you can think about for yourself so that you can personalize your birth experience so that if everything checks off everything on your birth plan, awesome, wonderful. We still have this cocoon of safety that makes it even better. But then also if your birth goes completely off the rails, that you still can leave that experience having had a more positive experience than if you didn't think about all those other things. How you said you swaddle chickens. You have chickens in your house. I have. Well, yeah, I have right now they're outside, but I have a I built, not I built someone built for me a very fancy chicken coop out there. Uh, but up until very recently, I had two chickens in my house. I've had them in my house for years. Uh, and then when we built this very fancy lady coop, I wanted to see if they liked it and they've been having a great time out there, but they, they were diapers. Did you know that chickens have diapers? No idea. Yes. I would give them baths, but they were like special needs chicken. So they got brought in for special needs reasons. And so you domesticated special needs chickens. Yeah. And I would have people reaching out to me because I know that I would do that. And they, I had somebody, um, give me a blind chicken who is being picked on. And, uh, I, I loved on her up until she died and I had her, I called it her sister. Her, her sister was her seeing eye cat, you know, they, because they would just act like cats in my house. They just walk around. And so her sister grits would, uh, show her where the food is. And they were just like at the hip all day long, just walking around. So yeah, I take in, I take in ones that have been, uh, maybe abused by their fellow chicken family members. And then I bring them inside and they live a life of luxury. That's awesome. Uh, Jen, thank you so much for the time. Congratulations on your book. And I can't wait for you to meet. Hold on. Hold on. Let me find the name. Doctor. Nope. Yeah. Dr. Beach, Jim 10. I'm really looking forward to it. Yes, me too. Uh, Jen, thank you. Congratulations. And hopefully, uh, we'll run in each other sometime soon. All right. Thanks Bobby. All right. Bye Jen. Thanks for listening to a Bobby cast production. This is an I heart podcast guaranteed human.