Wired to Achieve: The Psychology of Being Driven with Dr. Douglas Brackmann

it is time for us to actually step up as driven and own what we are. But a lot of us that are addicted to money, addicted to power, addicted to politics, and all the other shit are destroying this frickin world. The big picture is, you know, we got to get out of this quarterly profit focus. Driven, gifted, focused. Dr. Douglas Brakman is a psychologist who specializes in studying the genetically gifted and talented. The greatest problem you have and really the only problem you have is yourself. He's the author of Driven Understanding and Harnessing Your Genetic Gifts, a book that helps high achievers harness their unique wiring and channel their extraordinary drive. You're designed to heal from trauma like no other. With his dual PhDs in clinical and organizational business psychology, Dr. Brakman has put over 25 years of research into his work, teaching entrepreneurs how to reduce self-sabotaging behavior in order to maximize their potential. Doug's mission is clear, to help the top 10% of the population who are truly driven. We are the ones in the human genome waiting for the next ice age. We're waiting for the next shit to hit the bat. His goal is to not just help them to succeed, but to thrive, showing leaders how to live with clarity, impact, and fulfillment. Alright guys, welcome back to the Mellow Milliner. Today I got Douglas Brakman here. Dr. Brakman is a psychologist and author of Driven Understanding and Harnessing Your Genetic Gifts. He helps highly driven individuals harness their relentless energy and turn it into meaningful achievement. With decades of research and experience, he teaches people how to avoid self-sabotaging behavior in order to reach their biggest and largest potential. Great to have you here. Good to be here. I am pumped, man, because I've read this book. I've analyzed the book. I chatched you. I've read the book. This is the book, guys, if you haven't read it, you've got to get this book. Tell us a little bit about the history of what made you write the book. Where you're at today and what you're excited about in the future. Fantastic. I am a licensed psychologist. On the inside cover, my doctoral dissertation, Jim Spiro, my dissertation chair said, not bad for a high school dropout. It's a good story. So second grade, third grade, I always talk about how I had this profound awareness that I was different. I didn't fit in. And as all little kids, they want to fit in. And so I knew I didn't fit in, but I did my damn distu-fit in. Sixth grade, I was the valedictorian in my class. I was perfect attendance, played the game all the way through. Seventh grade, I realized that didn't do anything for me. I didn't get any more attention to what's the point. And that then I discovered smoking pot. And it was 1979. Sex pistols had just come out with all of their stuff. I went to London on a family trip in 1980 and looked at Piccadilly and looked at the punkers in the square. And I said, that will get my father's attention. And promptly got a Mohawk and pierced my nipple and became a hardcore street punk from 1981 to 1985. I know it was black flag. And I was just running and gunning, wound up in dropping out of high school at 16, 17. And from that first time I smoked free-based cocaine to a lock-cycle word was about four months. Wow. So at 18, April 22, 1986, I went into a lock-cycle word for lower at least psychotic, 50 pounds lighter and I am now as 138 pounds. Wow. And diet. And 10 days in, I went to my first 12-step meeting and had a label. First time in my life, I felt like there were other people that were like me. And I said, all right. Obviously, two PhDs later, I figured some shit out. But it is anyone as a psychologist that doesn't tell you they're getting into psychology to figure out their own shit is lying. That's interesting. Unfortunately, a lot of psychologists get into it to cover up their shit. But I just went head first because I am really clear that if I don't really unravel, this is kind of mystery about what's controlling us as human beings, I was going to die. So I had an early couple of experiences of existential, complete crack being broken. And that great time to be a shrink, great time to be a psychologist. And that's my joke about all the guys I work with, including you. You are unemployable. And so you have to create your own company. And that unemployable means that simply all the drivens, we work well with others, but we do not work for others. And so that capacity to actually really understand who is our boss. And what is our boss is how to harness this driven thing. So we built this company to damage $30 million of EBITDA originally. And I knew it was time to get a deeper pocket to be able to scale faster. And we did the Q of E studies. We did all these things to get a deal done. And the question mark from a lot of the sponsors, they were talking the background to each other. I didn't even know this till a year later, but they were like, do you think we could work with the guy like Tommy? Do you think he'll listen? Do you think? And the fact is, if I respect somebody, I have seven coaches. If I respect somebody, I'm very curious. I'm listening. I'm taking notes. I'm delegating a lot. I mean, it's hard for me to actually want to sit down and just I wipe word all the time. And I plan things and I work on systems. But the best compliment I've ever received probably was you were the best student we've ever had. The conclusion of driven is that we are designed for mastery. Right. Constance state of a continuous improvement. And once you get that, once you can understand that is truly the world we're designed to live in. Yeah. How did you find that? Well, I say 2017, I met a coach that knew more than I did. And he almost fired me three times. We had a box to put my cell phone in and he said, I want you to stop learning and reading. Until you until you learn these principles, then you execute them flawlessly, I need you to slow down and document everything. Are you allowed to have a beer? Are you allowed to call and sick the same day? Like I want you to build this manual with me at 70 pages. We had a couple other guys in there. And I had a slow down. And it was really difficult for me. And I'm like, man, can't we just like copy somebody else's and make the changes? And he's like, this is so important. We got to create the system. It was hard, but I was genuinely interested. That's the piece. And you had developed humility and humility is the capacity to be honest with yourself. Most of us learned that through getting clipped in the knees with a bat. That's my cocaine and everything else. And if it lights up our dopamine, if you see that this guy is doing something I can't and I want what he has, what was that coach had? He was an authority figure. He was in his late 60s. I knew he was the Godfather. And he says, you are the best student I've ever worked with. You took what I had and you took it to the next level. Oh, so he saw you. Well, he came into my office and he said, hey, dude, why is our calendar is all over the wall? I could still your own, your whole warehouse with your own forklift, you wouldn't even know about it. He goes, everything's in your brain. You don't have a manual. You don't have a so piece. You don't have structure. You don't have systems. And he said, once you get the checklist and the things I'm going to teach you, everything's locked in your brain. Let's unlock all this stuff. And that to me took a lot of patience. And once it was done, I'm like, man, I was a believer. Like, why don't you got to figure it out? I'm like, no, I don't. I, there's a lot of things and there's a lot more than finance. There's faith. There's family. There's, you know, I'm not balanced. I'm not. And I never will be. As I say, driven, balance is bullshit. It truly is balancing, I.N.G. You're in a constant state of course correction. And the way I do it, you know, I do the F's and friends, family, fitness, finance, bond faith. And so that capacity to see how they're all interconnected and it's one big thing. You know, one of the things I learned a couple of years ago is I never reflected. Ever. I never looked in the review mirror. Now the review mirror's tiny compared to the windshield. But I always taught my team. I'm always happy. I'm really excited to meet our goals, but I'm never satisfied. There it is. They say, and that's never enough with you. When's enough enough? My mom asked me, when's enough enough? And I go, why? And I go, well, why not? And this is what I say to everybody. When Tiger was one for tournaments, majors in a row, that his mom say, stop golfing. This is my jam. This is what gets me up. This is what gets me excited. And you know, I always reach the top of this mountain and I look over and there's another mountain that's way bigger. I'm a carmsontor, God rest his soul. He was the, you climb a mine and he did pass. He handed the 6800 chip to Wazniak and Jobs in the garage. I mean, the guy's connected. He literally was on the patent for the first computer chip and he ran a little company called Silicon Systems for a bunch of years. And it's 75. He walked in my office suicidal. I said, 75 years old because he was trying to retire. And that loss of identity and you know, that is what driven is really about. And I solved the problem really quickly rather than trying to figure out who I am, it's what I am. And what is a logical rational statement? What you are as a homo sapien, what you are as an animal, full stop. You're a loving child from a loving God. You want to go to that way. And kicking apart the identity is the path of really optimizing what I am. And I'm a homo sapien, but I have a different operating system in my brain. I'm wired for chronic discontent. I'm wired in a way that I can run circles around most people's thinking. Biggest thing that gift that we have and the curse is this big picture thinking. We see it all. How much opportunity do you see in front of you right now? Too much. I mean, damn it. I tell like I said, dude, you're going to lose billions and billions of dollars. And he goes, not because you're going to lose money in your businesses is because you're going to have to pass on opportunities that don't fit the narrative on my counter. If I pull it up on the top of says learn to say no, learn to say no, learn to say no. And that is that is the ability to actually be in reality. And so we have two operating systems trying to make sense of this very bizarre experience being alive. One very old and one very new. This old one is a unconscious recording device. And it's wired for the familiar world. This thing is where the prefrontal and hyperfrontal lobe is and you can imagine how great the world can be. And everybody gets this monkey up in their head trying to control this elephant. So who's really in control of me? And that that question is my elephant will kill me with cocaine. Your elephant will kill you with overwork. And your brain then is actually seeing so much opportunity. And the other. And so being able to actually break that identity. So which one are you? Good question. The answer is obviously both right and drum roll neither. So is that third element, which you said earlier about being able to self reflect, look in the back when we look in the back mirror, really see reality. Yeah, there's a look on your face. And it's like, oh shit, because it's it's 50,000 years old, you know, 50,000 years. Now we've been trying to figure out this mind body soul. And meditation then is reality checking. It is not trying to relax. It is not trying to calm down. This thing you got nine to 13 monkeys up your bouncing around the elephant, freaking out. The capacity to actually reality check. How does the present moment actually feel? Yeah, be where your feet are. That's the EQ I think that most people miss is, how do I come off to people? And if you can't view that, I always think like, how is this coming off? And I got a slow down, be patient, write things down and actually have some type of methodology or else, I mean, my notes are scrambled. Thank God I got like you said, a good support team in the calendar. I don't know what I'm doing. I think I'm on a flight in a couple hours. But I don't even know what I'm doing the next day. People are like, how do you fly from seven flights in a week? I'm like, well, that's, I could do 10 podcasts in a day. I do what I want, but I don't really need balance. People are like, do you need a break? Do you sleep? Do you get burned out? I'm like, no. You know, when I've been in a situation where I'm actually really in the moment where somebody could be talking to me and they're like, my fiance, she's like, did you even hear anything I said? She's like, you didn't, did you? And I'm like, no, no, I'll reset, say it. Say that in the book. I can repurp, verbatim what you just said because I got a monkey over here tracking it all. But the other nine monkeys are doing something else. Well, what is, what is, okay, tell me, you're probably going to say, I'm going to just name some people. So Elon Musk, driven, berry. He is definitely driven. There's a spectrum of empathy and connection to other human beings. And some driven are wildly connected. Other people were empaths like our spidey sense intuition. We walk into a room and we feel the room immediately. Other people on the other and a spectrum can walk into the room and they don't connect. But that capacity to actually understand that and really operationalize it for you as a driven, I mean, you're an empath because I can, I can feel your energy. I can feel that connection, which makes you much better at a team building where Elon is, Steve Jobs is probably the same way. His frustration and blaming of others, of holding him back rather than creating systems or operational manuals is follow this and we'll get where we need to go. And then being able to get out of the way. And as Elon does, he goes, I studied him. He goes from company to company to company and what's the biggest problem you need me to solve? Which for an ultra empath, and I talk about this in driven. So most farmers, and I'll keep saying that rather than sheep, they're a hurting animal, meaning that they're coming from the dorsal vagal system, which is their vagal word, which is your fight, fight, flight freeze response. And they're hurting animals, H-E-R-D. What happens when a cheetah runs into a herd of gazelles? A statter, but you everybody's on their own. We as driven tend to be much more wired in the ventral or the wolf pack. Every driven I've ever worked with, the, you know, we have a profound awareness of how alone we are in this world. And so we crave to have others that really have our back. What's the one thing everybody needs? And Stephen Covey, I think, a speed of trust is we need trust. That's like the key ingredient to make me sprint. And this morning we were on a call with, with about 15 people. And there was a lot of conflict. The one of the gentlemen had said, do you not trust us? Do you not think that we want this as bad as you? And I said, well, here's the deal for me is I'm not good with sending me a note next week. I need it back in an hour. I said, do you know that I do this with every team I work with? It's speed for me. It's relentless speed. It's literally like this was not an impact. I was not trying to make you feel this way. And I said, we can call up any of the other teams. And there's this burning desire to go faster for me. And I always say, look, the way AI is working now, things are changing so fast. I said, we don't really need to take breaks. We scare the crap out of farmers because we are literally doing things that is the opposite of the way they're wired. And I say over and over and I say it 10 times a day. Urgency is sabotage. Urgency is sabotage. And slowest smooth and smooth as fast. And what is urgency? And this is where I get all my guys I work with in my long term clients. Some of the guys I've worked with 15 years are rocks to have no urgency whatsoever. Urgency is this need I have to move fast so I don't feel this way. And as long as you're coming from a motion, you're not in your spirit, man. I'm pretty aware of what the competition is doing and everything I've been doing. So Kobe Bryant took 500 shots a day in practice. Michael Jordan took 1,000. That means we outplay. We were thinking about the next five moves. And I think without this for a leader, I need to say it's okay to go get help and fail. I don't care if you fall 10 times over because by the time the other guy loads the gun, I'm ready firing. I might have missed a target 18 times, but I'm in the bulls eye every time. That's a math problem. Right. Math. That's my favorite thing is we got to do math. Let's do math. People wonder like Breeze like, what are you doing in the shower? She's like, all you do is spit out numbers. I'm like, I'm doing math. Yeah. And like the most common app in my phone opened is my calculator. That ability to see then how meditation applies to everything and excited for all my driven said, I really embraced meditation yet because when this thing's calm, what happens to your brain in decision making? Yeah, it gets better. I mean, I do about an hour walk a day. And it's in nature. And I hurt my foot and I realized, man, I'm not in a really great mood, but I still got to come in with a smile. And so we're wired for this survival, meaning our sympathetic arousal or our gas pedal is on all the time, which is why we break. Because eventually 42 and coming up on it, eventually the elephant wears out. Ability to actually understand that and compensate for it and take care of the elephant. And really see how this gift that we are given as driven and what's happening is you said, AI and this internet. I mean, the world is so rapidly changing. It is time for us to actually step up as driven and own what we are. But a lot of us that are addicted to money, addicted to power addicted to politics and all the other shit are destroying this fricking world. But guys like you guys that are in their heart and actually trying to help the world, you know, and the big picture is is, you know, we got to get out of this quarterly profit focus. Yeah, profit stuff, profit stuff because, you know, finance, my parents got a divorce because of money when I was seven. And I just vowed it's seven years old. Money's never going to get in the way of anything because I'm not going to watch this destroy any piece of my family again. But then the money was solved. And it's a KPI. It's a driving indicator. But I will say that when is enough enough? Well, the idea is now I genuinely look at man, I watch families and I watch the money because if you're making six figures and the one thing they don't teach blue collars, is people say we deserve this Harley. We deserve this boat. And I'm like, guys, you do deserve everything. Go rent it. Let's focus on getting you some assets that are going to really grow faster than inflation. And you got to trust me here. These things they make you happy for a little while. The cars break down. The Harley's don't get driven. The boats sound fun until you're not using it. You just got to trust me on this one. If you guys want to come on a boat, I've got a boat. We could go do it. And you're more than welcome to come to my house. And I invite people like, you can never let them come here and I'm like, man, they bought the house. So I've got these close relationships. And I got to say, Brie goes the other day, who's your best friend? Hey, man, I go. Hmm, great question. I'm like, I've got a lot of great friends that come stay. And the one thing is I don't contact them all the time. We're together, we're together. And I'm not like, this sounds really bad. A lot of women, if you don't call, if you don't check in, like they'll never, one argument in second grade, they'll never talk again. We getting a fist fight today. Tomorrow is right. Yeah, I can't imagine your fiance isn't driven. She has to deal with me, which is a lot here. What you would call that. She's super organized. She was my EA originally. And the thing is she could balance all of it. She could handle this, which is almost impossible. She's everything I'm not. Which we do, we're not opposite. We're not, but, because we enjoy a lot of the same things, but she's everything, she could be stable. She's a very good mom to our dogs right now, soon to be kids. But, you know, and I respect that, but it's hard. It's hard because sometimes I go, hey, we let me sprint. She sees the better man you can be. And that is literally when the, biblically, that is what women are designed to do. I think that's probably, because I got raised, mom had three jobs, but was around a lot. Grandma was around every day in my sister. Those are the three what, like my dad was around, but not as much as them. And so I had to learn to love women. So be wonderful to watch you have kids, because it opens up a biological part of your heart that was an open before. If you had to start over with $10 million, $10 million tomorrow, nothing else. But you know what you know now, and you got the relationship. What would you do with it? When I'm doing now, build a collective farm, and actually build a wolf pack of people that, so I was doing hospice. I did hospice for a couple of years. One of my teachers always was amazing, a man. But he said, the only thing you give a shit about on your deathbed is was I loved and did I love. And building wealth and building empires and building this, it all comes down to that. And focusing on really building a place where building a garden of Eden, building God's kingdom is what I would be. And that is literally what I'm doing now. Just finished my three acre baths, Bob. You know, you see a wolf pack. I just want to dive deeper into that, because I talk to six other guys every day, and we're in a text strand, and we jump on phone calls all the time, they get me, they're all driven. They are all our driven, and I could talk to them normally. And will they tell you the truth? Oh yeah, that's the hard part, because they always are constructive criticism. One of the things we've got is an open forum to be able to deliver bad news. And not because we want to, but because we respect each other enough. And it's very rare that you have that. And it allows me to compound faster, because there's some of the only people that can be honest with me. Iron Sharpen's iron, and it is, I've write about that in the last chapter of the driven, is it about building your wolf pack. And some of the hardest groups I've ever done, it's gonna make a cry, you're thinking about it, is the Seven Man teams in Seals, where the eighth guy's missing. And you talk about wound. And when a, you know, when a true brother in a wolf pack dies, it is, you know, you watch wolves, you watch a wolf pack. They mourn for months when they lose. But you look at how they line up. You have the oldest at the front, they're wise, but they're the ones that a pack can afford to lose. Right behind them is the lawyers. Then you got the little ones, and then you got the leader at the very back. And he's the one overlooking everything. You know, and... Let's jocke, jocke, jocke, jocke, jocke, jocke. It is, it is that leadership from the bottom, you, it's servitude, leadership, is what drivins are designed to do. And when you got a group of six guys, and if you got that for real, where they're all trying to be servants, that is what it is a rare thing. But as, as drivins, it is the, and the capacity to really let iron drop an iron down. And sparks fly. It is not this, when you see two swords go together, man, it's not, you know, and you watch a wolf pack bond, you're spending time with seal teams, man, those guys. And I'm sure the number of cut downs in those, you know, banter among the six of you must be priceless. It is, you know, I don't have to have to watch this, because you know, there's a lot of people I'm close to that, you know, I've always said there's so many people I want to teach out a fish. I don't want to give any fish, I want to get behind people's ideas and allow them to fail. But fail fast, because failure is where I learn from. I never want, and I want a lot of things. I want a lot of tournaments, I've learned a lot of stuff. I've never learned anything from winning. I've learned a lot from losing. We don't get that big, oh, good job. If somebody tries to tell, yeah, what's next? What's worse is, you know, well, you did great even though you didn't win. If I really want to win at something, like one of my core values here at the company is aspire to be number one. Like why would you ever want to be number two? Like why would you be proud of being number two? I had a guy come cry to me and said, I'm sorry, I'm number three in the company and I'm like, you, I'm proud of you. But it's the, it's number two is the first loser. Yeah, shaken bake. So let me ask you this. So my hack that I've learned to do is create accountability partners. And when I go there to the cold plunge and I got someone else, so we're chiming it. We're gonna see us going to take longer. It's not fun, but that, that's accountability at the highest level. And it's easy because I got, I got two people up here. I got the good guy and the bad guy. Well, I got 12 or 13 monkeys, but the idea being is it's easy, you know, nighttime Tommy, plan some crazy shit for morning Tommy, but they're different people. And, but if I could create that accountability, it makes it so much easier. It doesn't even feel like, and it's almost like working out too. Like I bring a body working out. You know, I'm gonna break it, but I'm gonna break myself in the process. That's a game changer because then it's not about, I need somebody else watching. I need, I don't need any of that. And yet I still resist every day. It's so, that flesh, but it's that discernment. And then being able to actually really feel the power of that, I mean, he's pumps every time. And so that ability to actually really understand and develop this direct relationship with presence, direct relationship with getting my central nervous system really calm down, asking yourself, what am I doing? Seeing how you need to build systems in front of you to get where you wanna go. And once you get into this rhythm with friends, family, fitness, finance, fun, and faith, and build this life, you know, driven on the outside, look balanced and happy and how the hell do you keep this all going? Well, simple, I got a team. I got a team of people that allowed me to have this. And it's like, I don't do anything. It's just the team does all this stuff. I'm just the one, you know, at the back of the wolf pack, you know, really appreciating all of them. And people are, I always say Peter Parker, Spider-Man, what does his uncle say? Great power, great responsibility. Is we've got a responsibility. You know, I tell my competitors, I say, you might not like me, but you're welcome to come get trained by me. I train all of them. They're welcome to come into the building. I'll give them all the secrets. I've got a whole group of 100 grocery companies that I teach everything I know. I say, but some of your enemies, man. You do. But I say, here's the problem. You could take it all away. I came from nothing. I'm like, that's the scariest thing in the world when I'm willing to bet it all over and over and over again. Cause I know what I'm capable of. And there's no one that can stop me except for myself. Usually I'm the only bottleneck in the company. So just know I lived in a tiny apartment. I drove a used truck so not that long ago. This was four or five years ago. And when you got nothing to lose, and I'm not crazy, it's all calculated. I was with Jordan Peterson. Not that long ago we were on a private plane and I was sitting next to him and I started trying about young men, about they're not really going after skills. A lot of them don't feel worth it. I don't know what it feels like to be a woman. I don't know what it feels like to be a dad. I've been a son before. I look at some people and they just, what do they want? They don't want to get their driver's license. I'm like, you don't want to drive? Like, what do you want to do? I'm not sure. And I mean, listen, I've never experienced that before. I've never known like, yeah, I'm just going to sit and just see what happens and just kind of be here for the ride. I want to be in the driver's seat and I don't understand this ideal of just, is it not self worth? What is it with these? It's a lot of that big fan of the fourth turning. So it is hard times make hard men. Yeah, hard men make these easy times and these easy times where we don't have to struggle, where we don't have to work, where we don't have to actually work for food. You know, overgivier food creates a break of masculinity, a break of value for actually creation and protecting and serving and providing. So the monkey elephant metaphor, it is 90% of people have a single thinker in their head. They have one monkey. 80% of them have no one questioning their thoughts. They have no observing ego. They don't have awareness of insight. Truly and as driven people, it's like, oh, what? They're in a narrative thinking and if the narrative is challenged, it scares them so they have no insight. Well, what about, what about, I started thinking a lot. I feel like there's several people in my team that are driven. I just feel like they're entrepreneurs. Like they have a lot of freedom. They make the shots. I'm very careful around them to not take away their autonomy. Look, and they can go do it on their own. There's no doubt. I mean, it's not easy for either the people I'm talking about in me. It's actually difficult, but you know, I let them sprint and I let them do what they need to do. Is that possible? I always joke with all my founder driven, true driven founders. Well, I want to create a team of drivins. They'll still use shit and do it themselves if they're truly driven like us. And what will keep them from doing that is the wolfback. We'd rather do this together. Faith is the feeling. I have faith in you. Trust is the ability to predict behavior. Best predict your future behaviors, past behavior, and I've known you for two weeks so I don't have trust in you. But I got faith. Yeah, a lot of entrepreneurs that know have been burned, and they left them right, and they stopped learning. My mom used to cry to me. My dad cried to me. My stepdad cried to me. And they, because they were all part of the business in some regards, especially my mom and my stepdad, and they go, you have no idea what's going on. I go, I know what's going on. I go, I know they're stealing. I go, it's just how much am I allowed to permit because here's the deal. I can't give them what they need yet at this size company. But what you don't know is here's what I'm dealing with. What do you think's more important, mom? And I smiled and she's like, I just hate it when people take advantage of you. And I said, I appreciate that. But you have no idea how much we went. It's 98% of the time in a way we're using each other. And the 2%, I can't, I won't allow myself to go there. I don't allow myself to go into this betrayal mode of thinking and walking and knowing I'm going to get taken advantage of because if that's where I live, there'd be a very sorry place. So we have loneliness is in the elephant. And aloneness is in our soul. In psychopathable terms is called the schizoid tear. But we are aware of how we are split off from God. And that aloneness is what drives most driven to actually create a team around them. But you don't want to face that true aloneness that we are separate from God. And so you have to run at that darkness and that that darkness is where you're going to find the light. Is there any book that you would recommend that like not Napoleon Hill or Dale Carnegie? I always thought to Sandy Stewart, my Zen teacher. So he, he, he greatest teacher. He would, he would teach without teaching. Greatest teacher I've ever had. He said the only book you actually really need to digest and fully eat is the book of self. Stop, he encouraged, stop reading about this shit and look in and run at that pain. That's where you're going to really find the truth. And the truth isn't out there, it's in here. I love that. And final words just to the audience to close us out. Final word would be the only thing you care about on your deathbed is was I loved and did I love. Don't miss that. And it is this, this mere fact that we're a bunch of monkeys spinning on a blue rock in the middle of nowhere, man. Oh, we got this, this right now and each other. That's it. And as driven's, create a world where that gets to be the truth. That would be amazing. I love that. Dr. Doug, thank you so much. It was so good. Thanks so much for listening to this episode. Like always, we're going to close it out with the Tommy Truth, which is a little slice of wisdom for me to you that can help guide you in whatever you're striving towards right now. So my philosophy has always been readers or leaders. And yes, you could do audible. You could watch a podcast, let's do a podcast, but when you're actually reading a book, it's like the last thing in life, reading real books, sitting down, getting better at reading comprehension and going through underlining what you love, reading it over, and then taking those notes out of the book and putting them to use. Read more, learn to love to read, and he will grow further in life than you ever thought possible. And that's it, guys. We'll talk to you next week.