How to Use AI to Understand the World and Get Ahead with GNOMI Founder Eva Cicinyte

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I'm Nicole Lappin, the only financial expert you don't need a dictionary to understand. It's time for some money reading. This is Not Breaking News. AI is transforming the way we work and the way we make money. And here's my prediction on things. The people who will win the next decade will be techno optimists, the people who learn to leverage AI to make money and scale their time. Today, I'm partnering with Eva Cicinatti to teach us exactly how to do this. She's the founder of Nomi. It's an AI-powered news platform designed to help people understand what matters in real time without clickbait, doomscrolling, or 10 tabs open. And because she's a woman after my own heart, inside Nomi, she built a feature called Finance Mode specifically to give you real-time updates on financial news you can use. And this is the exact kind of AI use case that will help you get ahead. Eva and I also get into building in the AI space, whether patents are still necessary and how to actually get one. What it's like being a woman in a very, very male-dominated space and why vibe coding is probably the most empowering thing you're going to do all year. Eva Cicinatti, welcome to Money Rehab. Thank you for having me. I'm so excited to have you because we have Girl Talked offline about news and this is like the kind of girl talk that I have. And I wanted to share it with the audience specifically about what you're doing with financial news. Thank you so much for doing that and we'll get to that in a minute. But is traditional news broken? You know that I've been in this space for 100,000 years. What's wrong with it, in your opinion? Well, first, I don't think it's the fact that people no longer are interested in the news. I think the way people receive the news in the format as they receive it, they just no longer trust it. I think traditional news was very much created for limited information. But now we have like a complete opposite problem, which is we have infinite amount of information. And so it's really difficult for people to understand what it is that they're consuming and have that intelligence ability to contextualize information that is relevant to them. And I think that's the biggest problem today. We're just bombarded all the time. And what we see too, just fed to us through our feeds or through Apple news or anything, like we don't even know what source it is. And they all are on the same playing field, so you can't even discern. Yeah, it's really difficult. And I talk a lot about this where we see US covering Europe. And it's really not what's actually happening in Europe. I'm Lithuanian and the way that, for example, this whole Russian aggression is happening in Lithuania, United States really much covers it in a very different context. And so for someone that is looking for things that are relevant to them, it's really important for us to understand not just the language barrier, but also the cultural barrier and how things are actually different based on coverage. And so I think that's something that is very much impossible today to gather through the traditional news aspect. But you need it, like when you're even managing your own portfolio, or if you're running a business, like we need to know what the inflation numbers are. We need to know data that's coming out unless you are digging through the BLS numbers directly, which most people don't do. What is the best way to find what you need in this crowded marketplace? Like the solution is not to cancel the news, we need it. Yeah, and I think that's exactly the pain point I would try to solve is know me is really not eliminating the information, but just creating an intelligence layer that allows us to really provide the information at the right place, at the right time to the right individual within the context and their values. Because all of us, quite honestly, only care what's really happening in our own backyard. And if we are able to succeed in that, to deliver that, have any tool that allows us to really contextualize the information from the entire world based on the topic of my interest, then, you know, that's something that was going to be successful in allowing people to make that informative decision. Okay, so you mentioned Nomi, you're the mastermind behind Nomi, you believed, and I'm paraphrasing this, this is how I've seen you as your fan, you said that news basically needed a glow up could not agree more. So what were your early brainstormings around solutions for that? Oh, gosh, my brainstorming started before Nomi even existed at all. My background is interesting in that regard, because I come from entertainment, but I also come from running political data analytics for a really long time. It really allowed me to understand the power of information firsthand, because our sole job was to personalize and contextualize messaging to each individual to get the message across. But also, it showed me the power that could manipulate people with the messaging in, in relation to getting the right outcome. And so even though it was such an honor and just a phenomenal craziest time of my life, I at some point became really frustrated with the fact that only research teams like this with so much money behind them were able to make that informative decision, where someone like me, I could never make money, because I just don't have these kind of tools to understand the context of it all. And so I think I didn't know that Nomi is going to become Nomi. I just knew that I really wanted to solve a problem for myself and also for people around me that were just constantly very confused and also very convinced that they were very informed. And I knew that they weren't, because the power of messaging and personalized messaging is unmatched. And so yeah, that's kind of where the idea came from before any of this started. And then I just kind of thought, you know, as the idea was developing, we first started with a computational cloud, where how are we going to scale, how are we going to develop all these products? We had no idea what the product was going to be like. We then did the market fit, looked at the news, traditional news. And so this is really where we said, listen, this is what we need to do. We have a goal to make, create a tool that allows humanity to be more informed. We need to make a real-time intelligence tool that allows them to constantly help in making these decisions. And then we just stuck with news, because that's the only thing that constantly flows. And you're doing it in such a amazing analytical way that's data focused and unbiased, because a lot of companies, media companies, apps have tried to do the unbiased without the spin stuff. And still there's somebody behind that messaging that makes me feel like, like, what actually am I supposed to believe? You mentioned that you were in entertainment, and I love that you're posting more on LinkedIn now, too. You wrote this great piece that you wanted to underplay that. Can you explain why? There's a quote that really matches this entire experience of mine, which is, a jack of all trades is a master of none, but a master of none is better than a master of one. That second part took me a really long time to come home to, because I firstly came from a country that was post-Soviet Union, literally a year before I was born. And the entire nation really honored and rewarded perfection constantly. And so everything that I have done in my life was really valued based on how good I was at something, which required time. And I, when I got into tech, I got into tech really fast. I didn't have the traditional Silicon Valley, Stanford background. I was times two immigrant, immigrating to Canada, then United States. I had absolutely no traditional background to talk about my data analytics background, because politics was very confidential and made me very invisible. And so I just thought that if I could shrink myself into this one page, to put myself on the box and erase all these chapters and put myself in this one little one liner where I'm doing this because I thought that people are just going to understand me better. But obviously, through time, especially having my daughter, I realized that this is not the example I want to set. My diversity and my rage, everything really allows me to be where I am today. And so, yeah, I just, it was definitely a 27 year mark. I was really learning as I went. I was afraid to tell my story, because it was just so untraditional. But I think everything has changed now, especially when you're running a startup and you realize that there's no way you could have been successful in any way, unless you had the ability to pivot, which is exactly what my entire background taught me is how do I pivot very quick? How do I not know the answer? But how do I find the answer? That's where I realized, I think a lot of other people feel this way. And I need to just vocalize this because it's being the maximum capacity that you are is what's going to get you to be who you want to be. But also, who is like an expert, so to speak, in AI, it's all being written right now. Yeah, it's all happening now. Yeah, I think I really think the expert is going to be the AI. And as AI continues to develop, we no longer have to be the linear expert of it all. The biggest thing we're going to bring as being human is the ability to adapt very quickly and know how to use these tools. We no longer have to be experts at anything anymore. AI is going to do that for us. That's how we're going to apply AI to come to that particular result. I think that's what's going to allow us to really excel in using these kind of tools. And it's a tool like anything else, right? It can be used to build a house and to tear it down. So when you have the idea, you set computational cloud. That's what you started with. So basically, that's a big brainstorm of ideas. And how did you test those ideas? We built a computational cloud before Chad, GBT, or any of these came out. We knew my background was sentiment analysis in the political data analytics. We were all used to gather a bunch of data to understand the sentiment analysis on what people thought. And that was done in a very rough and manual way. Like think of it as like billions and billions of data points, just trying to group them and understand the commonality between all of them or maybe none and just then do the targeting ability of messaging. When we started thinking of how we're going to scale and the fact that our goal was to really help humanity to be more informed, we didn't know what the product was. And so we started with the fact that how do we create the base of the house that we're going to eventually build with the architect to ensure that it's strong enough to stay so we keep on building on top of it. And so that's why we built a computational cloud with machine learning capability so we can essentially build as much as we can and have that base kind of withstand all of our changes, pivoting, adaptability on anything that we want Nomi to be and more. And that's what it was. It obviously still stands today under our holding company where we built Nomi. And that's why we were able to pivot so quickly with Nomi when ChadGBT came out because we're generative AI. We leveraged so many different large language models is because we already had that base. So we were just really just building on top really quickly and maximizing all these tools that were just coming out and powering them in onto our system. How do you deal with all of the tools and advances coming in so quickly? I just imagine you like whack a mole style as a new update comes in. Like how are you integrating that? Or how are you maybe vibe coding yourself because so much of it doesn't require an engineer? The word vibe code is just so funny because it I don't even think it existed until like this year, especially when lovable before lovable came out, which was such a genius idea because now vibe coding obviously is not for hard coding. You're not you're not going to be able to build a product, at least not today. But what you can do with that now is to really build a prototype that would have taken you maybe two, three months to do that in like 24 hours, just very quickly throw that out in front of your customers that are willing to test the product or you're kind of the the product category people that are able to really just understand what's the market fit here. It's just going to stick is it's not going to stick and do that extremely quickly without really providing and injecting too much capital into that. And so yeah, it's been transformational for us because this entire industry is like a tsunami. It's going so fast and the reality is not everything sticks. And so that really allowed us to move quickly and just throw things into the trash if they didn't work within 24 hours versus two months. So it's been it's been great. I trust you I trust Nomi but how does somebody who hasn't used the product differentiate between what you're going to get there versus just asking chat to BT a question. Yeah, I mean, search engines in general, retrieve information for you based on referencing the links and then large language models really provide you information based on the data that that been they've been trained on. We are analyzing the entire information ecosystem to provide you the information that is contextualized for you specifically to your needs at the right place and at the right time. Chad GBT is a product within itself. We use it as a tool as we use any other large language model to help us power our intelligence layer that is going to be providing you relevant information at the right time at the right place. Chad GBT is really a search engine answer engine. We are really allowing you to understand the world better and that's mainly our goal. But you're not only the founder you're also there was a commercial back in the day about this. I'm not only the founder of the hair club for men but I'm also a customer. So you're also a user yourself. But how do you use it to consume my consumption has really changed because I started off with firstly ensuring as a founder to ensure that we started off with verified results for for the user. Now the fact that I know the way Nomi has been built on for for a year and a half I'm starting to use Nomi as a customer based on the things that really matter to me like for example more so to verify the information for me. Is it really true that this happened in Europe is it really true that the market is crashing is it really true that people are afraid of the market today whatever that is. I'm asking very personalized questions that are relevant to me that day and I'm really looking at the way it solves the complexity for me as an individual versus as a CEO. And if I'm able to be satisfied as a customer and not just an asset CEO to provide you the best quality response I am very much hopeful that others are going to use it the same way and be satisfied. So it's switched from being a CEO and using the product more so and now I'm using it as a user and seeing if I'm satisfied with what I'm getting as an individual. I mean I've heard you talk about this in a time that it almost was too early to resonate with me because you were like I know that there are deep fakes and AI generated stuff that's not real and I was like I don't know deep fakes maybe has to do with porn and other stuff like doesn't have to do with the news. Then I thought of you because I got really deep into the Epstein files for instance and I saw a bunch of social media posts that looked really real about it and I was like I've been in news for more than 20 years. Is this real or is this not and I could not tell and I asked the AI I'm like is this real is this not and it's so so hard to now discern and every single day it feels harder and harder. Yeah look there's a lot of Epstein files out there and so firstly you're getting opinion from someone that's maybe read a fraction of that and is now telling a story based on the findings that they have found because the entire social media is based on the people and how they report how they narrate the story that they want to tell according to their agenda which is great because opinions are very important and they're important to how they shape our society but when you're only listening to one story and then you kind of exit the social media that's all you think about that's all you think that there is to that story and so that intelligence layer is extremely important because what it does it really just gathers the entire ecosystem the entire landscape of information and then it really contextualizes this for you. So if you ask a question is this really true it's going to say well in this case it is but actually in this case it isn't and so you need to be very of the things that you know how how you consume these whatever Epstein files because in this particular situation this particular person there is no record of this being verified information whatsoever so I think that intelligence we're not trying to eliminate information I think that's really important to note too it's how do we really just personalize it for our own use that makes sense for us to answer our own question versus what the rest of the world wants us to know. But do people want that or do they just want to hear what they want to hear from people who believe the same thing as them do they want to be in an echo chamber or do they want non-bias news because I know you listened to your customer and if you found that everybody just wants to be in their own echo chamber and hear whether it's fake news not fake news you would probably pivot again. Yeah look but we're not here to tell people that they should like cats if they like dogs we're more so trying to allow people to be more informed about the things that they care about and yet everyone wants a sense of belonging obviously I want to know that I'm not the only crazy person that thinks about this idea the way that I do which is not something that is a problem I think more so it's a problem if we believe in something that is factually false especially Gen Z today they're one of the most vocal generations and so when you have a generation that is extremely vocal about things that they care about the most important thing that we can do as a generation is to provide them tools where they can verify their information before they become really pumped up to talk about it or to stand up for whatever it is that they believe in but people want it to be verified yeah I've seen that myself I want information to be verified for me I don't want to spend time believing in something that isn't true and then be talking to you about something that ends up being that I don't know what I'm talking about all of us like to feel intelligent and in control of our lives and the only way to really do that is to be informed and so that's where the verified information context comes in and the medium matters too so you guys have a partnership with 11 labs we love 11 labs how did you see like the consumption change from text video audio the the medium that people are consuming more yeah I think as AI continues to develop everything is going to be moving towards voice you're going to want to be sitting here with someone with me and you're going to want to have a little assistant in your ear navigating you through a conversation through your life and I think 11 labs is one of the partnerships that we're really proud of because firstly they are amazing at what they do they really have that ability to translate things so quickly and so effortlessly where the language barrier just completely disappears at this point we were kind of calling it injection of news as a local you're really just consuming news as a local even though you're just reading news from China or or Japan or or India it just feels like you're really much just consuming something that you've consumed for your entire life except now it's just much more broader spectrum and 11 labs makes that possible in the language thing is crazy yeah we've been working on sort of a stealth AI project with 11 labs too and to hear my voice and we've trained hours and hours on it in Japanese or whatever is is wild and and that's a huge game changer in how you're consuming news and information it's a huge changer for us as AI news agent because we are trying to humanize this experience so much for the consumer where they feel like they're actually talking to the best friend that knows everything about the world and that should be delivered to them not just by speaking their language but their accent and their voice that they're trying to feel the connection to we don't want that to feel static and robotic we want you to feel like you're literally talking to mark as my mother says you know I talk to mark and I'm like who's mark she's like mark is your AI news agent who you know is the voice that I speak to every single day and so that's what we want we want that to be very much personalized experience and I think 11 labs has really done a great deal for us to be able to do that for a product and your mom is not weirded out by listening to an AI club I think my dad is more freaked out that she constantly refers to versus I'm talking to know me I think there's a few times where she hasn't actually explained herself to my dad and my dad called me he goes do you know who this mark guy is I'm like what are you talking about he goes like mark is our AI news agent that my mom talks to and he goes why does she call him mark I'm like because we named him mark and so I think that it's how just really tells a story that people don't want to feel like they're talking to an agent they want to talk to someone that feels like a human being that understands them yeah I think it's so common now that we're just gonna have to get used to it and I think that there's there's so much value there like for me I have listened to the clone of my voice and could not tell the difference at all and it allows me to focus on the things that make me uniquely human and that I can bring to the table while still scaling myself at my reach and so I think when we look at what AI can do for us how do you balance that the human element and the opportunity for scale and reach to other languages well I think overall AI should be leveraged as a tool and the way that we really want to succeed in is where information feels like empowerment versus confusion where we could or they could use our tool to empower their lives and shape their lives may that be again personally or professionally where they're able to make that decision at the right time at the right place understand that this is a tool that is going to empower them as a human being to be confident in their decision making this is where I think AI is going to be revolutionary regardless of what you know in which sectors it's being created you guys launched finance mode yay thank you so much I'm so thankful that you made this whole product just for me that's so kind what a good friend how does somebody use that now in the in the landscape of the same thing like so much finance news so much fake news out there the way that we really want to position finance mode for a customer is for it for it to be more so of this intelligence layer for markets where we help you to understand what moves markets and so we are working with all of these partners and creating this real-time dashboard specifically for individuals like you that have the ability to then go on our dashboard and understand what signal versus noise and so of course we leverage live earning calls we leverage all different company kpi's we leverage transcripts we were able to really just have this entire dashboard where you're able to ask a question where you're able to position yourself as someone in a specific position and then ask an agent that is able to then give you not just a response but context based on the things that you are looking into thank you again I want to be the voice can I talk to your mom just be like well I'm over mark now Nicole is talking to me I feel like your dad might like that a little bit better probably will love that yeah and I really love what you guys did with the adaptive fear and greed index specifically because look I am so happy that there are more finance creators out in the world it's just not regulated and people can go on and have a microphone and say just about anything but it's not connected to earnings calls to company reports to kpi's and so I really worry about that like I'm equal parts excited by the proliferation of more finance content and and nervous about it nomi's version really focuses on the real-time information flows which is constantly changing that particular sentiment we also go beyond that too we are injecting the sentiment of how people feel about the market is it versus what's happening versus how people feel and we're injecting that as part of the formula into the fear and greed index so you can actually see an overall picture that is constantly changing and adapting together with the market and humanity intertwined together it's so smart that you're doing that thank you because there are so many indexes there's so many things to track like sure you can track the vixx that's kind of fear but it's not a vibe and for the last couple of years we've talked a lot about the fact that data is really strong but there's a vibe session happening like people are upset still doesn't matter what the data is showing if people are scared if people are fearful that something's gonna crash regardless of what the numbers show they're gonna pull their money out of the market and that's something you need to know exactly I mean you know what's actually happening is not necessarily how you need to react in response and I think the fact that going back to the belonging knowing that you're not the only one that feels this way knowing that the market overall actually people feel a certain way about the market is telling you a lot of how you should be acting and what you should be doing next based on what is happening versus how people are looking to react at that particular moment in time so how do I use it the fear and fear and greed index mode right now is even though it's not static from the back end it's fairly static for you just for you to understand where the market stands at that point in time so it's constantly adapting so it's real time and every single time that you're checking even five seconds that could drastically change depending on what's happening in the world and you're able to really maybe be being biased and saying that you can really depend on that because again we're not really focusing on the fixed signals we're focusing an overall image of how people actually feel of what's happening in the world today so the fear and index mode is constantly adapting based on what's happening and so at this time it's not an interactive feature but eventually based on what we're working on right now will be tell me just between us girls no I'm really excited about this well how would you ideally want finance mode to work and help our listeners on their journey to financial literacy at all stages at all levels of the game I am someone who is not so much capable in making these tremendously important finance financial decisions I have never really understood when and how and to what I should be investing my money in and I think what I really want to accomplish with this particular feature and mode is not just build it for the professionals which is what this dashboard really is you really need to know what you're looking at and the questions that you are asking you really need to know those questions in advance but I really also want to build it for people that are going to be able to actually take this dashboard that is going to be specifically personalized to them and adapt it to their level of understanding so it could help them make that more personalized important financial decision based on where they their capacity and understanding is fine you can you can build it for other people too but I know where your heart was when you were thinking of this one of the first times we spoke you were also like just casually I have a patent for this yeah okay amazing first of all second of all tell me about what that process is even like and in this world of creation being so accessible even just sort of in the vibe coding sense how important is a patent it's important because that's remote especially when you're building something unique you want to make sure that that's not going to be repeatedly done in the next six months especially when you're injecting capital into something that is evidently working the reality is people tend to copy things and yes it might be a nice compliment because people tend to copy things that actually work but it's a complete tragedy for investors and for you that have been focusing on building something for a long time now it's very also important to understand what they're very expensive and they're extremely expensive they're expensive I mean you definitely have to hire a law firm that understands how to file patents that understand how to position your invention in a right way that allows the patent office to understand what it is that you're actually trying to build here you're trying to protect here is it even patentable is another thing and I think the right attorneys are going to be extremely helpful for you to position your invention in the way where it's very much simplified on the piece of paper now it's we ourselves we have patent one of the most important core intelligence of our platform which is the sentiment analysis ability that allows us to have this very unique intelligence layer that understands that that is a bridge between humanity and information that's something that we needed to patent and something that was very much patentable because it was the formula that we have that we have put together into this particular strategy that allows us to function the way that we do kind of like our secret sauce so that was really important for us to patent because if anyone else does that then of course that's where the patents kick in but it's not important to patent your entire product one is nearly impossible and two it's just completely useless because things are constantly evolving technology is constantly changing by the time that you get a patent which if you do takes you up to at least two years you know it's going to be very much useless and I spent all this money patenting something that no longer you was even needed so patenting 30% of your core intelligence layer or whatever it is that you are building your formula is what's very much recommended after this I have to bring out my husband not that he's like hiding but he has my husband also has two he's gonna kill me if I don't say this correctly two sentiment analysis patents two you guys need to nerd out it's a small nerdy nerdy class very specific nerdy club about this yeah so don't go on up work and file a patent with some guy who says they can do it like you have to do it yeah and that's tens of thousands of dollars tens of thousands of dollars depending how complex your invention is and most importantly all the details and the regulations and whatever it is that needs to go into these hundreds of pages of a patent are a very important factor of that being either a success or a failure obviously once it's rejected you can obviously refile but it's always very hard to do that especially if you don't have the right team and the right team is very expensive because unfortunately no matter how many startups are trying to do the patent capability right now I think they're just creating much more work for lawyers to begin with when it comes to that what has it been like financing this company yeah so until this day we've had only one investor who has better me when nobody else did and he's been very large investor he's invested over 30 plus million dollars she says one investor just one investor one investor 30 million dollar yeah it's it's you know that I think of it that's incredible if I if I were him I probably would have never done it because oh stop it's interesting because I didn't have the background at all and I think as an investor when you look at things you're trying to really minimize your risk you are betting on people and I know that he very much bet on me but at that time I was so green I knew nothing all I knew is that I'm gonna I want to win and I want to solve this pain point how I'm gonna solve it I have no idea give me your money that's how it was but he really bet on me as a human being and I will never forget that because it really allowed me to make a lot of mistakes throughout this process and learn so quickly on my feet because I also had this massive responsibility that I needed I had somebody that bet everything on me and I had no other choice but to deliver and that really kept me up at night and still does because we're not done we're no we're near done we're not past stealth mode we are still very much a startup yes we're going into series A and we're raising series A now but you know nothing is won yet besides the fact that we have made tremendous progress into solving this problem and we will continue doing so until we can't yeah I mean taking 30 million dollars would definitely keep me up at night to make all the sense of the world one person I mean that's so unique I am assuming that you know him having that much money he did his due diligence and he made a very educated back so thank you for your self-deprecation but I'm sure there's a real reason that he put that much in and do you think the future doesn't include my former employers Alma Motters of CNN CNBC Bloomberg look I think this agent specifically and an overall news agents they're not going to eliminate journalism I very much believe that these agents will help people consume even more information I stand by it because right now we have so much in information so many podcasts so many journalists it's so difficult to even find the people that I think we would be dying to listen to because we don't even know they exist and if these agents are able to bring the right people to our platter to listen to I think the consumption is going to rise tremendously with and do the opposite of elimination I think we're going to be very much much more engaged into journalism that we've ever been done before because it's going to be at the peak of it I just think even as a media business owner like is there more consumption that people can do not more consumption the right consumption and I think that's exactly what agents are here to solve is to know who you are and know what matters to you when it matters to you and these are the people podcasts contents that you know are relevant to you right now to make that decision whatever it is that you're making normal people don't don't start businesses no normal people do not start businesses I think you know if people actually know how hard it is to run a startup I think nobody would do it it's also birth there would be no humans if they were really really no birth is like the least of my worries after a startup yeah there's no epidural for the startup no there isn't and you know what I like at some point I'm gonna like I would love to cover like one day where I just don't want to scare people I was on a conference call when I was giving birth and nobody knew I was pregnant job no no one knew I was pregnant because it was COVID and we were firstly a remote startup and people just thought I was getting fat I kid you know people are like calling my chief technology officer and it's ever okay like she's gaining so much weight because the camera would just be here and my chief technology officer was the only one that knew because he had to know and he's like no she's just I think she's just stressed because I prohibited him for telling anyone that I was pregnant because I was so afraid that the top engineers that we stole from the top companies are gonna just be like oh man she's a woman and she's pregnant and she's running a startup and she's got no background like this is a suicide mission like we quit yeah and so I when I went into labor I was induced I had proclampsia and I just my nurse was like what is she doing I'm like I have a conference call and my chief technology officer he's like what's happening why where are you I'm like I'm giving birth I'm fucking giving birth are you serious yeah yeah and I'm so it's interesting because I don't know I'm not really proud of that either like I want to have more children and I just don't want to have this kind of story ever again I'm sure it's very inspiring for an investor who's like for investors who would invest money into me and say like like she's able to walk through fire but it's just not the life experience I want to encounter again but yeah no I yeah I was giving birth to one baby and then also to another and the fact that you had to do that still speaks to the truth of the culture that we're in as women who have run businesses raised money led teams because there still is that perception yeah you're just very honest well now nobody can tell me something is really hard because I swear to god giving birth at the same time that's like running a startup and then also just pushing the baby out into three hours and going back to work literally in 48 hours was the most insane thing I have ever done and at that point I was really proud of that because I'm like you know what nobody can tell me I can't do something ever again and I think that was also one of those like breaking points where I'm just like I'm just done pretending that I'm this one little linear thing because I just pushed a baby out and I I just stood up like nothing happened the next day and just ended up working and so for me I feel like that was more so like I proved that to myself more so than anybody because quite frankly I don't even think people are gonna quit care that I came back to work 48 hours later or not it was just something that I wanted to do because I was always told that you can't have a baby and have a startup but the reality is that when you're at the peak of your career you're also in your peak fertile year yeah and so you can't it's not really a choice unless you don't want to have children so it was just one of those things I had to prove to myself I think more so than anybody I don't think anyone cared but not again but not again no I I I really want to remember my pregnancy this time because I really just don't remember and maybe it's also hormonal I don't remember a single thing but there's that I also remember the experience of just being pregnant of what it's like to experience that part of nature which I don't because I work through it so what did you do you just like just had a baby you were just like meet my child that nobody was coming pushed it out in 30 minutes I was induced so I was in like an enact I wasn't I was a labor but not active labor my active labor was maybe just like two hours and I really just when it was time to push my obstetrician just barely caught the baby and it's just like what just happened um like what just happened what happened and so um yeah I just said okay I'm done I have to now go recover and I have to go back to work oh my god well I thought I mean I thought being on the phone with my accountant literally while I was having contractions which I wasn't sure because your first baby you're just like is this it you're like asking chat to BT like am I going through a late big burp yeah you have chat to BT yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah so I was on because it was toward the end of the year so I needed stuff from my accountant and I'm like okay hold on let me try the thing and he's like are you sure you still want to have this call I was like yes it's really important we have to get the wires out before the holidays like Christmas is coming banks are closed and then but yours is next level and so your team did you did you come back and be like surprise my chief technology officer we used to use we use Slack now but back then we used Signal and my chief technology officer goes can I please now tell the team you had a baby and it was very obvious something was going on I just think firstly because my entire team is at that point was made out of men that they just didn't really put that together because why would they and so my chief technology officer just said can I just please just let them know now that you know you're okay because I think it's becoming like a health concern and so I'm like yes so he goes just so everyone knows RCO just had a baby and then everyone just was like what she was because I didn't post anything like I was just so quiet because I was just so afraid of people kind of thinking that I can't do both and I really wanted to prove that to them but most importantly prove that to myself because nobody can tell me that again so I'm basically came out of stronger. So what does that say about women in business and now two years later that you feel differently? Gosh she's just like this like everything just changes and I think when you have a baby you just kind of go like this is the most important thing that I'm holding in my hands and I'm going to do everything in my capacity not to let this little human down and you just start working even harder that you never thought you can work you just kind of become this like super mom super super human because you just don't have the ability to be like you know what I just gave birth I'm kind of just going to relax now for six months and I'm going to come back to that it's it's not that you kind of give birth and you're like okay now I have to that gave birth to this human and now I have to keep them in her life so now more than ever I have to do everything in my power to show what humanity is capable of to my little human that is going to be watching my every step and so I think that's I think that's something that most women feel. But you're vocalizing it so thank you for that there was actually an article that I wrote around COVID that more women got promoted because you couldn't see the pregnancy yeah and it didn't have an impact on yeah raises or promotions the way it truly still does if we're being honest. We just have to prove it over and over again with good actors that you can do both but it's still very hard and I just now know that I can do it that's all I care about. And I think about all the time our daughters are very close in age one and two what the world is going to be like when she starts driving is she ever going to need to know how to drive is she going to go to college. How do you think about our little our mini-me's and how they're going to consume news and information. I think equipping them with the right tools is going to be really our job and to also be responsible for the things that we're building now to be generally good for humanity. That's extremely important because all of us not all of us but a lot of these companies are just going after hype and they're building things very I would say with no responsibility whatsoever because we're trying they're trying to reach X amount of revenue and X amount of time and they're being incredibly responsible of how they're building things I think that's going to be our responsibility as a generation to set that tone for the next generation that comes. The world is going to be constantly evolving our parents did not prepare us where to walk they showed us how to walk and it's really our job to teach our children to be responsible in their actions but I think as AI develops I truly believe that if we equip them with the right tools or it could help them to make those decisions it could help them to navigate the world of AI that's going to be very important same same way as parents taught us how to drive hopefully and then we kind of choose our own car model and year and what we're actually going to drive at the end of it. And destination. And destination most importantly destination because you say humanity in a way that sounds really hopeful but I think there's a flip side to that. Are you scared? Scared is a wrong word. I'm not scared I am just maybe cautious of the things that you know are coming out and how effective they're going to be and manipulative if we're looking at the dark side. I think to everything good there is the bad side you can't solve the problem of communication without injecting the over communication of the misinformation or people that are ending up communicating with you same thing as Facebook. With Facebook they solved the massive problem where I was able to connect with my school of or my kindergarten friends but they've also created naturally and unwarringly the dark side and I think that's inevitable. I think it's how we solve that as we move forward with AI so that it's going to matter. We're not going to solve all problems at the same time. We're just going to have to navigate the way we see fit. Are you meeting a lot of female founders in the AI world as you go on to build the company? Sadly no but I think that's going to change. One because I think I'll find myself a bit more active in Silicon Valley and two I think AI is going to really allow us to close that time capsule gap that is and was very much needed to build something spectacular 10 years ago where it was very much man dominated industry because we needed to do this manually. Now we have all of these tools that really if you find the pain point in humanity if you find a problem in the solution you're able to leverage all of these tools to build this particular thing and I think a lot of VCs now are betting on the next billion dollar company that is going to be really run by one person with many different agents because more so than ever before it's actually possible and I think I'm very hopeful that women are going to come out and play. Yes amen to that. I have a couple of girlfriends who are also in the space and they're just like yeah definitely the only lady at the conference the only woman in the room. That's so sad. If this turns out the way you envision as you were saying if I'm successful I think when you're successful I think you already are. What do you think changes for people and how they consume news and information in this crazy world where I think to myself every day like what even is truth? I would really hope that our tool allows them to allows people to find their own truth in what they care about and I think just going back to the fact that I would really wish to accomplish that tools like NOMI will provide confidence in information and consuming information rather than just confusion and over wellness of the things that you thought you cared about and now you're just ultimately just super confused and you don't know where to go. Confidence versus confusion we really want to solve that problem in how people consume information today. And what do you want our listeners to understand about what they're walking into in the future of AI? Going back to the traditional news where information is infinite at this point I think the power will belong to those that don't have access to information but have the tools to contextualize it because that's going to be the most important thing and I think that if AI is able to be a tool for that I think that's going to be transformative for everybody on the most personalized level that you could ever have had it before. And what do you see as the future of the traditional news landscape now? I think we're beyond feeds. I think at this point people no longer want to read articles they want answers. People don't want to know what's happening you know about inflation they want to know how inflation is going to affect them personally and I think that personalization capability is how do we have someone or something that we can trust to really provide information that matters to us most at the right time and at the right place and I think that's where the news format is very much changing. It's also going to change beyond the answer engines as well. I think we're going to be going into the simulation effects now that's the new paradigm of news. We're going to be able to really understand the model of your life based on the decisions that you make before you make them or you can actually see your future based on the decisions that you're willing to make. Wait. Things are going to be in your life and I think that's the simulation is going to be the new paradigm. So assimilation is my own psychic by my fortune teller of I guess you can put it that way but if you're trying to model out your world based on the decisions that you're making right now like an architect think of it you receive the blueprints before you build something if you just ended up building something which is what we're doing right now with making decisions based on the best tools that we have we're going to make mistakes if we have a tool like a blueprint that is going to be able to actually model out the world for us based on the decisions that we're willing to make most likely we're going to make the changes before we actually make that decision. That's crazy but also makes a lot of sense because as a business I look at my data and I model that out into the future. So we can do the best of your ability to the best of my ability there could be Black Swan events or stuff happening in the world and that all changes but I can model it out and with assumptions rooted in data and truth so you can do the same thing for yourself in your own behavior. Yeah except now we have this like most powerful AI tool that is able to foresee much further than you would be able to if you were just depending on yourself to make that decision. Dang! Okay I'm scared but excited. As you know we end all of our episodes by asking all of our guests for a tip that listeners can take straight to the bank. If I could say one thing it would be don't make any financial decisions without having the full context of it simply because I very much believe in this that it's not the smartest people that become wealthy it's the ones that are the most informed that become wealthy and I think having the context before you do anything financially is extremely important.