Zulma on Trauma, Therapy, and Why You’re Not Broken

hey there listeners welcome to shit that goes under our heads the podcast where we normalize conversations around mental health that's right i'm dirty skittles and alongside my amazing co-host we are here to share stories and tips from our incredible guests each episode we deep dive into struggles and triumphs of mental health offering practical advice and heartfelt support because no one should feel alone in their journey. Join us as we break the stigma and build a community of understanding and compassion. Tune in and let's start talking about the shit that goes on in our heads. Three, two, one. Welcome back to another episode of Shit That Goes On Our Heads. I'm here with the amazing, awesome Dirty Skittles and today we have an amazing guest, Zoma. Thank you, Thank you. Thank you for coming on. Nice to meet you, Zulma. Thank you for having me, Alyssa. Thank God. Because so many people canceled today, but it's all good. It happens. It's the holidays. Yeah, honestly. I mean. And everybody's sick. And, you know, it's fantastic. Yeah, I'm not done Christmas shopping. So I don't know if y'all are, but that's where I imagine everybody else is. Oh, okay. Sick. attending the family gatherings, trying to not deal with holiday stress. Yeah, they're doing all that shit. But you know what? It's all good. And I'm so excited that you are our very last recording for 2025. That's awesome. That's good. So, Zulma, tell our listeners a little bit about yourself. Who is Zulma? My name is Zulma Williams. I was born and raised in Buenos Aires, Argentina. I moved to the United States at the age of 31 for the first time. And at 42, I started thinking about my, I was working in accounting and started thinking about my future, my professional future. And I wanted to pursue my passion of being a therapist. What did I need to do for that? I need to go to school. So I started my bachelor's of social work at 42 and I graduated at 46, four years later, and I was on track to do my master's. And six weeks after graduation, I got diagnosed with breast cancer. Because life is what happens when you have other plans. Obviously, I took care of my health. I moved back to Argentina to be close to my family. I was there for three years. I was like, what the fuck am I doing here? I remember why I moved the first time. So I wanted to celebrate my 50th birthday in Las Vegas. So I moved back in 2015. And when I was making my decision to go back to the States, I was like asking God for a sign. And be careful what the fuck you asked for, because you might get it. So out of nowhere, I got an email from the University of Nevada, Las Vegas. That's what I did my bachelor's. saying, hey, we have the advanced master program. Do you want to register? And what is unusual about that is that they send that fucking email to my personal email. Because after a certain time that you're not a student, you don't have your student email anymore. So I was like, all right, God, like I asked for a sign, you gave me a fucking banner. So I moved back to Las Vegas. I celebrated my 50th birthday. I started my master's. I graduated at 51 and I became independently licensed at 53 and a half. And this year, 2025, still, we're still in 2025, I celebrated my 60th birthday and I went to Hawaii because I love the ocean. I love the water. And I was there for four days. My birthday is in summer in the States. And that's why it was so important for me to celebrate my 50th birthday in fucking summer because it's winter in Argentina. The end of June is winter there. So anyhow, I went to Hawaii and I had a great time. I went by myself and I really missed the ocean and I love the water. So it was like, I went back and I'm like, how the fuck I'm going to make this work? And because I want to live on the ocean by the ocean and I started investigating my possibilities and I cannot afford it in the United States sorry it's because I can go into Florida with the hurricanes or North Carolina no offense so it was going to be California or Hawaii and it's very expensive so I couldn't afford it so I started asking God where should I be and the answer was Panama and I'm happy to say I've been in Panama City for the last three days. I just arrived three days ago and it's been fucking raining nonstop since I arrived, which is so unusual for me because in Las Vegas, it doesn't fucking rain. So I'm still in Panama City, but I'm moving to an apartment on the beach next week. So I can't fucking wait. That's awesome, man. Okay, I have a few questions. What brought you to move to the U.S. when you were 31? I didn't, at the time, I didn't have a job in Argentina. I was still living with my mom. The socioeconomic situation over there is still not good 30 years later. But I was like, I had this dream since I was a teenager. The movies, right? That's what we get, the fucking Hollywood movies. And I was like, oh, I want to experiment that and experience that. And then when I arrived, which was December 10th, I arrived for the first time to the United States. It was like a stepping into a fucking Hallmark movie because it's Christmas, all the Christmas lights. Oh my God! We had to set up pretty quick. But that was what I, at the time, I didn't have a job for two years. And it was like, you know, I'm 31. And one of the things that truly pushed me to do it at that time was that I had a cousin who was probably 32 at the time, but we're very close in age and he had a stroke and died. So I was like, I'm thinking that I have my entire life in front of me and life is right now is this moment we don't have. Right. So I was like, well, fuck it. Like I, it was a teenage dream to move to the United States, but that event, okay, bitch, like you. And that's what I did. And I think five months after my cousin passed, I moved. Wow. That's awesome though, that you were able to just put that wish or that dream into reality. Yeah. She decided that she was not going to, she wasn't just going to shit. She was going to shit and get off the pot. and that's like sometimes you got to do that and the thing is that when you don't have when you have nothing to lose it was a fucking adventure to to go to america because i'm like okay well if it doesn't fucking work out i'm back at a square one what i'm right now but i didn't want to be thinking like, what if? So I was like, okay, fucking let's do it. And I did it for 29 years. It is unfortunate to say, but the United States that I came in 1996 is not the United States that we have in 2025. And it's, you know, again, like life is too short. So yeah. How did your mom take the news that you were going to just up and move to the U.S.? so she gave me her blessing but i know that it broke her heart and i always joke with her you know we'll call her and say do you miss me and she will be like no i don't miss you because i know that you are happy it truly broke her heart that you know i was i am the youngest and it was her baby and i'm moving out but she i think that she admired that in me because my mom grew up in a time where like you supposed to be home and popping babies and cooking and cleaning so i don't think she had those choices especially in the hispanic culture and my dad is was he was born in syria and my mom's parents were born in libanan so a lot of arabic culture combined with the latino culture is shut up and you're fucking supposed to be better footed right so the fact that I broke the mold and I came out and I went to another country without knowing the language right like it was a huge cultural shock but I was like well again like if I had nothing it was her home I was living there but I didn't have a job I didn't have a boyfriend I didn't have innocent so I'm like okay well I came with my clothes basically and you know I try it yeah and it obviously worked because you said you were there for 29 years 29 years yes that entire fucking life man basically so then you went into therapy at that point is that did I get that right? So at 42, I started my bachelor's and I want to mention, so I was working in accounting and I wanted to create a different future, but I didn't have, for all people listening, you don't have to destroy where you are now in order to build, like I did those in parallel I continue to work in accounting while I was going to school creating the reality that I have now but it like a lot of times like oh well I need to start from scratch no like you can I still need to fucking pay bills no sugar daddy on the in the crisis I need to fucking work and at the same time I was doing my I was going to school and you know I had an excellent experience as an older student because I was 42. These kids were 18. Like I was a fucking grandma in the classroom. But the professors loved me. Like they know that when you are an older student, you're there because you really want. Right. Because grandpa is paying for the fucking tuition, right? So I read the entire chapter. I asked the question. I was the annoying one on the first row who is always raising their hand. Because I'm like, I'm fucking paying for this. I'm going to take advantage of it. You know what I mean? And then when I graduate, so when I have clients telling me like, oh, I'm too old to go, motherfucker, like you're barking at the wrong tree. I started my bachelor's at 42, my master's at 50 in English. It's not my first language. What's your fucking excuse? This is why I love you so much. Because I had the same experience. I did not finish my bachelor's until I was in my 40s. I was working full time. And yes, I do. I own, I owe a ton of student loans or whatever. You know what? I'm going to be dead before that shit gets paid off. Yes. You know, I did the same thing with my master's. And, you know, there were kids in there, you know, 18, 19, 20. And they're all like fucking around. And I'm like, you know, I'm the one answering the questions and doing the team projects. And, you know, I'm like, you all need to get your shit together. Okay. because once you get out of these doors and you get into real life, you need to be a fucking team player. And, you know, respect your elders and respect our knowledge. And, you know, just because you just get out of college does not mean you have life all figured out. I'm telling you, go work in corporate America for 45 years. Exactly. And the thing is that, so for my master's, I was 50. My classmates were in their mid-20s. and there was one time i had two students in front of me one was 23 and one was 27 and it done and i'm like you fucking bitches like it takes the two of you to be my age two of them to make 50 and but they kept me busy like they kept me updated with fucking instagram and shit what the fuck do i know about social media and i kept them grounded with reality because a lot of the shit that we were reading in the book i had experienced it i had i survived an abusive relationship i survived cancer i'm an immigrant like i suffered discrimination i suffered bullying because of my accent whatever the fuck we are reading in the book fucking asks me because i'm here to serve you know what i mean but we kept and i still i'm in contact with some of my colleagues 10 years later right because i think that my age for my career is an asset because you see me i'm fucking old already so you're not going to be like i had the other interns were like i had one particular colleague she was probably i don't know 27 but she looked fucking 13 so she was talking to a parent suggesting shit and the parent would be like do you have children they never fucking ask me if i have children i will have children since i don't have children but it's whatever the fact you're doing doesn't work it's not working but they never question me because they assume because of my age that i had children so okay i mean like a lot of the trauma that i experienced i connect with my clients on a different level because I had my own trauma so no I don't okay hold on let me go to page 35 of the trauma book it's okay let's fucking do it because yeah yeah is that is that part of why you chose this field yes so I experienced I was in an abusive relationship and I didn't know that I was being abused it was because to me abuse was physical abuse like i beat the shit out of you sent you to a hospital and my therapist at the time i was very depressed about suicidal and i'm like i don't know why you know i'm feeling this way and she said well you are being abused and i was like oh no he doesn't touch me and then down until she started explaining about verbal abuse and emotional abuse and all those types of abuses and i was like i want to do what you're doing because i think she saved my life by providing the information by guiding me and i was like and i consider myself on a smart educated person so it's not like i'm fucking ignorant but part of the culture that i come from is that oh you just fucking take it right right the man and I was like I want to do what you do and to this day if I am one percent of the therapist that she was to me I'm good you know I think that she I mean she is truly an inspiration but it was like oh yeah no I'm you're mistaken I don't know why I'm depressed because you're being fucking abused but these fucking narcissists assholes. That's why you're in the person. But I was like, you know, he didn't beat me up. How easy was it to accept that there was a different form of abuse? I was mesmerized. As I started reading, I'm very curious. so she gave me suggested a couple of books i went to the library i got verbal abuse books and it was like check check check so i was like holy fuck i've been abused all this time and i i took it as part of the culture yeah i was amazed but in a good way that oh my god like i'm yeah I always say knowledge is power right so it's okay now I have more information and I have more resources and he was abusive to a point that I and we were fighting all the time but I was like why don't we end the relationship I don't want to be fighting like you're not happy I'm not happy if you're not with me you're not going to be with anybody I'll kill you so I was like all right then i fucking stay i guess but the thing is that we started couples therapy and there was an incident in the therapist at the time which was of course a different therapist she said do you trust him and i said no and she said why are you in the relationship because he told me if i leave and he's gonna kill me so she poor thing okay i didn't realize what i was saying because it was the truth you know so she looked at him and she asked him is that true and he said well yes but i'm not gonna do it and i said how do i supposed to know that and at that time because he was being exposed then he was like well if she wants to end a relationship she's free to go so he still set me free i fucking took that opportunity and i got the fuck out but the thing is that i was devastated right because he the way that it worked it was his decision not mine i didn't end the relationship he set me free but i was devastated and i went to my therapist and i'm like i'm fucking crying my eyes out and i'm like isn't this what i wanted like why the fuck am i crying and she said because you love this man i'm not surprised with your reaction because you love him so if you didn't experience this i'll be surprised meanwhile he's already fucking dating and living life right so but then i learned this is like 20 some years ago but then i learned i love him because i have that capacity to love not because he deserved it right a lot of times we question ourselves like oh you're a fucking bitch why do i love you i love you because i'm a loving person did she choke she's done are you okay i'm good i just there's so many similarities just like my own personal life you know i stayed with a woman for five years and she treated me like like fucking shit you know what hindsight is 20 20 because i've been with my wife now for 30 years and they're like you don't realize that you're being treated like crap until somebody points it out to you and so i'm just i'm listening to your conversation i'm like man you know what hindsight is 2020 and it's all starting to fucking click well i always say when you are in the picture you cannot see the picture no you can't absolutely cannot have you ever looked at a picture and go my god bitch don't you have mirrors but i looked at a picture i looked at a picture from 10 years ago and I'm like god damn you were a fat bastard I looked yeah dude I've lost like 120 pounds like I was like how the hell did I get through a door and I so much happier now but I love what you done with your life right you came to a foreign country in your 30s and you started therapy and you started a life and then you started to figure out what worked for you and what didn't work for you and started getting help and now you get to take those life lessons right because I think that's the best way to teach people and to help people. It's like going back on your own life lessons and your lived experience and help people get out of those same situations because like you said, we are in the picture, but we're not looking at the picture. And I love that you're like open and honest. And so I wanted, I have a question. I don't quite know how to ask it, but when you, like, how are you talking with us like on the podcast you talk to your patients like that or is it more of a calmer life is too fast i don't have time no the way i'm fucking talking to you i'm talking to my clients so i offered a 15 minute consultation to see what i go see in those 15 minutes bitch shit fuck is going to come out of my mouth if you have an issue with that i'm not the therapist for you right which is fine i'm the swearing therapist right it's fine i'll fucking give you referrals i'm happy that you want to get better it doesn't have to be with me that's one and two i don't have time to be holding your hand for you to figure it out that you want to get better that's not my type of client we are gonna do you want to get better we are gonna hit the ground running. Life is too fucking short. A lot of times my clients are like, yeah, I'm ready. And then they realize that I was real like this shit, like we are now fucking playing around. And naturally they don't continue. Like I give you referrals again, like I sleep either way at night. If you love me, I sleep. And if you hate me, I sleep because you know what? I cannot be catering to you like it's like i think that it's because i'm fucking old i don't give a shit anymore i'm a recovered people pleaser i'm not since i've been diagnosed with cancer i'm like you know walking around with my middle finger because no like i been trying to make you happy which excuse you like it's not my fucking job number one number two is impossible so i decided to make me happy so that i will attract my tribe so in answering your question is like the clients who that i connect with they love my style because it's like you know oh that asshole cheated on me again i'm like okay blah blah blah and then it's okay let's talk about why you keep attracting these assholes and that's the difference between me and your girlfriend who's gonna be like yeah we're gonna beat the shit out of that asshole no why the fuck so this doesn't continue to happen right and it's like they love that i'm direct and i'm not being around like i don't have time to sugar code like when i do that i'm fucking exhausted if i if i go to an event where i cannot be myself it just sucks all the energy out of me because it's like now i'm the fucking swearing therapist i totally i can totally understand that i've had we've had a couple people come back to me and be like what do you say fuck all the time i'm because you know what it's that's who I am that's me being vulnerable that's me being 100% me and a lot of times it's the best fucking word to use because like when I went through my own shit and like I said you know hindsight is 20 20 I can go back and laugh at some of the things I did but like when I'm telling my story and especially like when I wrote my book I wrote it in my voice yes and in my tone and that's how people see me but yeah i can turn it i can turn it off if i need to so i've done some like linkedin lives i've been on other people's podcasts but do you know how fucking hard it is not to say the word fuck i am going to tell you is the hardest thing in the world so now i have to come up with like new words sometimes but so i asked the host i asked the host like do you want me to keep it clean because i i can but it's oh my god i'm fucking exhausted because i'm still myself without saying fuck it's so hard because it's like i want oh sugar no i'm gonna say shit you know what i mean oh fudge yeah i'm not but to that whole point it's like i i've been with really good therapists that didn't swear but I would find myself wanting because it's just natural to be like I'm fucking tired or like I had a fucking horrible day and not being able to release it because I'm like oh they don't swear so I'm like I had a bad day but it's not the same it's not the same it's a fucking shitty day is different than I had a bad day that's why I make the best therapist for you right because yeah you need to just say fuck everyone we say fuck every now and then and like we still talk to each other, Zoma, and I've been away from where we work together. It's three years now. It'll be three years in April. But you know what? When you can have those conversations and be open and honest and use the language and the tone that means the most to you, I think that's when you get your most help. Thankfully for me, like my therapist is totally cool with me swearing, right? because it's gonna be really fucking hard to get through that conversation and not use swear words and right i read a really interesting article about you know women who swear we're incredibly intelligent we are intelligent and we get to be vulnerable and if you don't like vulnerable gretchen then don't fucking talk to me okay because once i turned 60 i stopped giving a fuck about a whole lot of things and by the time I hit 62 I was like y'all can suck it you don't fucking like me I don't care you know what I got maybe maybe 20 good years left in me I intend to use all that time getting like just getting to people and helping people and like energizing people to do better be good take care of yourself take care of your mental health because I will tell you what happens when you don't. I am a shining example of that. And so like I, you know, I really go all in with people on burnout and taking care of your mental health and speaking up. And if you can't speak up, fucking call 988. Somebody's going to be there to help you. And we need to remind people that, you know, yeah, life gets hard, but you're not alone. And if you don't have a good therapist like Zoma or somebody that you can be like 100% yourself, fucking start speed dating your therapist. Find that therapist that works for you because not all therapists are the same. Don't be afraid to say this isn't the right fit for me. Exactly. I always tell the clients like you are interviewing me as much as I'm interviewing you. because with therapy is different than the doctor that you see the fucking doctor for 45 seconds if you don't like him who the fuck cares but me if you don't click with me you're not going to be honest and if you're not going to be honest you're wasting your fucking money and your fucking time and who has time for that who has nobody has time for that and you know especially like here you know in the u.s you know the economy is shit and you know not everybody has mental health benefits but if you're are paying out of pocket find somebody that works for you make sure so you can be your true self because showing up to therapy and not being able to be your true self sucks you can't be safe and vulnerable then you're wasting your time yeah absolutely and the thing is that again do you want to get better right are you going to therapy because it looks good or do you want to get better what is your fucking goal because if you want to get better i think that by being authentic and being myself i'm attracting my tribe if i'm like and then i cannot first of all i cannot sustain it in the long term like after the fucking three hours i'm like i'm gonna say fuck because i'm like i'm gonna but let's say in a romantic relationship right like we all we're all in our best behaviors and no i want you to know that i say fuck all the time because if you have a problem with that you better find out right now right when i develop feelings fucking three months on the line and then i'm like i'm gonna fucking be myself today bitch what the fuck have you been doing the last three months time for that so by being authentic you attract your own tribe and the people who don't like you doesn't click with you whatever they are gonna find their own people like i'm not everybody's cup of tea i understand that but the thing is that it's okay i don't have to be everybody's cup of tea. You go to the fucking ice cream store and there like how many flavors right Chocolate doesn get offended because you pick chocolate chip who the fuck cares we are all different and that is in where our magic is it's absolutely beautiful that we are not all the same and by showing up authentically we save a lot of time we cut to the chase like oh you don't like me good next instead of investing a lot of time in a friendship or a romantic relationship then it ends up being which is what happened with my ex who's very charming at the beginning and then reality kicked in by the time the reality kicked in i was too deep into it and as you mentioned like five years right in your marriage it's like abuse doesn't happen overnight i don't wake up one day and told you you're a fucking stupid bitch it starts really oh really you want to go out with your friends we don't spend that much time together let's watch the movie let's stay in and watch the movie so i cancel with my friends and eventually isolate from my friends oh really you want to go to your mom's house your sister really doesn't like me why don't we stay home you isolate from your family by the time that you realize all these little things that are not little you don't have anywhere to go so now the only resounding board that you have is that motherfucker who one day told you you're amazing and then the next day told you you're fucking stupid so you lose your center right and again you are so into it that you don't realize that you are into it. Man. Such a fitting and deep conversation because, you know, Dirty Skittles and I have both been through therapy. I'm still in therapy. I probably am going to be in therapy until 200 years old. I'm in therapy too. You know, I had to speed date my therapist. And, you know, I'd never been through therapy. And, you know, Dirty Skittles taught me that. And we coined that phrase because of her. I stuck with my therapist because like you, Zoma, I get to be myself. I don't have to sugarcoat it. If shit is hitting the fan, people are going to know. Because now what I've learned is we don't mask that shit anymore. If I am not happy, everybody around me knows. Even, you know, because I am an extrovert and I am an empath. You know, back in the day, I would be like, hey, I'm doing great. You know what? If I'm not doing good right now, you all fucking know. Everybody knows. Yeah. But that's important, though, especially for you, G-Rex, to be able to take the mask off and show your authentic self and not be afraid to do that. I mean, that's huge. That's gross. And it takes such vulnerability. We are strong by being vulnerable. We are not weak by being vulnerable. It takes a lot of guts to be vulnerable. and to show the world that you're not doing well. Zuma, I have my two questions for you. I'm genuinely interested in your answers. If you could rewind time to visit a younger version of yourself, what advice would you give that younger version, and how old are you? I think I'm 26, and I will tell her, baby girl, what you're doing? You deserve better. Okay. All right. What has been your hardest lesson in life that you've learned so far? That it is okay to be myself. I talk a lot of shit about, oh, I don't give a shit, blah, blah, blah. But it was a long way to get there. Coming to terms with I'm not everybody's cup of tea and realizing that by being myself and being authentic, that is the best gift that I can give the world really not only my closest friends and family but when i'm sharing a podcast or when i'm doing my own podcast is that maybe sharing my authentic self gives you permission to be authentic too and that is the best gift i can give you so to to learn that it's okay to be different and that's what it makes all of us special but that's what makes me special i love that i freaking love this okay maybe fucking love this so i have a couple questions for you number one okay if your anxiety had a theme song what is it and why you fucking bitch I wasn't expecting that if my anxiety had a theme song it's gonna be I don't know can I create my own song? yeah it's gonna be like everything is gonna fall apart that's gonna be the theme song of my anxiety everything is gonna be shitty and it's not gonna work out because that's what anxiety is right? Like we get anxious because we are trying to control the anxiety is about trying to control the future, which is impossible because the future is not even here. But what's going to happen on Monday? You might fucking die tonight. Don't fucking worry. You're not going to make it to Monday. We are like anxiety. It's oh no, I want everything under control. So it's telling you it's not going to work out. So that's going to be my theme song. Cause like I'm fighting with my anxiety. Like it's going to, You know, it's not going to work out. It's going to be the shitty outcome. Okay, but let me try it anyway. Fuck you. I'm in Panama. You know what I mean? Y'all broke me. But okay, so now I have another. It's like a two-parter. What do you do today for self-love? I broke myself to Panama. Yeah. And I'm making myself live on the beach, which is my dream. Oh, this warms my heart. And then what do you do for self-care? I read. I will go in the water every fucking day. I'm not doing it right now because I'm in the city, but I do yoga. I get a massage every day. Well, this is what I've been doing up until now. Okay. Once I get settled, it's going to start again. But I did a massage every other week. I did yoga every week. I like to read and I do my own podcast where I'm absolutely myself. Not that I'm not being myself right now. I absolutely myself here too, which I love. But I do my podcast weekly. for now is solo, but I just share shit from either educational, mental health, or just shit what I'm going through at the moment. And I get energized after I do podcasts. We do too. We do too. Like we get as much out of this podcast as our listeners do. And as our guests, right? Because our guests, it's very cathartic for them to get this off their chest because sometimes they haven't shared this information with anybody but you know our listeners come back to us time and time again and say that they feel seen heard and validated and that's incredibly important to me and so how can our listeners find you they can follow me on my instagram at the suerian therapist and my website is dragonfly therapy services.net i'm licensed in nevada colorado arizona utah and texas so if you want services from me you need to be a resident of any of those states but even if you're not a resident of those days, reach out. And if I cannot help you directly, I certainly will provide you with resources. Awesome. Thank you so much. Thank you. This was like the best way to end 2025. I know. Yay. Yeah. I love it. I love you girls. And I like to close by saying that if you woke up today, that means that your mission in life is not complete. keep putting one foot in front of the other and you're gonna come on the other side of the challenge you're currently facing oh thank you what a beautiful message for the end of it too right so beautiful so spot on thank you thank you thank you hi all thank you so much for listening to this episode i'm g-rex and i'm dirty skittles don't forget to subscribe rate and review this podcast we'd love to listen to your feedback we can't do this without you guys it's okay to be not okay just make sure you're talking to someone Thank you. Thank you.