Ariana Madix: The Vanderpump Affair (FBF)

Daddy Gang, I am so excited because Ariana Maddox is our guest on Call Her Daddy today. If you are a fan of the reality show Vanderpump Rules, you know exactly who Ariana is. You don't need any preface to this interview. You're ready to dive in, but for those of you who may not be familiar and have never watched the show, I got you. I get it. You're stressing out. You're like, I can't watch this interview because I'm not going to know anything. I don't know the backstory. Daddy Gang, I got you. I'm going to break this down for you so you can follow along and also enjoy this episode. So here we go. Vanderpump Rules is a reality television show that is on its 10th season. Naturally, with reality shows, there's been tons of emotion and drama throughout the years, and there have also obviously been hookups, breakups, and cheating scandals, which brings me back to my guest today, Ariana Maddox. Ariana stars on the show alongside her former long-term boyfriend, Tom Sandoval. And let me be so clear, when I say long-term, Daddy Gang, I don't mean like, oh, they've been, they've been going steady for a couple years. No, no, no. I mean, they were dating for nine years. They bought a house together. They have dogs together. They were planning on freezing embryos together. And they plan to spend the rest of their lives together. That is until Ariana found out that Tom had been cheating on her for nearly seven months, and Daddy Gang, he wasn't fucking some stranger or some chick off of Instagram. No, it is truly everyone's worst nightmare. He was cheating with one of Ariana's closest friends and fellow castmate, Raquel. A huge betrayal, as well as a complete and total blindside, but also fucking classic, right? The boyfriend and the best friend are cheating. Awful. This affair has been secretly happening the entire time season 10 was being filmed. And no one knew. But now, as we've seen, the news has leaked. Everyone is dying to see how this drama continued to unfold. Somehow a news story is new every fucking week on this shit. And we've obviously seen glimpses. Almost every single castmate has spoken out about this. They have gone on podcasts, news channels, radio. I mean, this is everywhere. Even CNN and The New York Times have reported on this cheating scandal. Apologies have been posted. Sides have been taken. Everyone is extremely shook and extremely invested. But the one person that we have not heard from in long form and the most important person that we need to hear from for a sit down, in-depth interview is Ariana. I also want to point out, obviously, this is such a noisy scandal and everyone's excited to hear it. I just want to remind everyone, this is Ariana's life. This was her relationship. This was her best friend. And when this happened, at the time, it probably felt like her world was turned upside down. So even if you don't watch reality TV, that's okay because unfortunately this episode is extremely relatable because it's about cheating, betrayal, dishonesty, manipulation, and heartbreak. So Daddy Gang, I'm excited to give you Ariana and I'm excited to give her a space to open up and speak about this and have a really open, honest conversation. So here we go. Let's get into it. What is up, Daddy Gang? It is your founding father, Alex Cooper with Call Her Daddy. Hi. Hi. Ariana Maddox, welcome to Call Her Daddy. Hi, thanks for having me. How are you doing? I'm okay. Can you explain what the past few months have felt like to you? A roller coaster. I mean, truly like the lowest lows, I think maybe ever, maybe since my dad died that I've experienced. And then I wouldn't say the highest highs, but I would definitely say that there has been like some really amazing bright spots and it sometimes feels like, I don't know, like a ping pong match in between those two extremes. I have a tendency to like compartmentalize a little bit with emotions. It's the Virgo moon in me, but it's weird because also sometimes when I'm like, oh my gosh, I'm feeling good, like things are really positive, then people on the internet will be like, why is she must have not cared? They're like mad at me for like healing, but then they like, you know, but that's the thing is it's like everyone's always going to have an opinion about like how you should live totally. Something I want to talk about is like, I think so many people have had something to say for so long about this scandal. And like, we haven't really heard from you about like, start to finish in long form your thoughts, everything that's gone down. So today I'm hoping we can like put it all into one. You're like, okay, let me just let's take a little rose. Cheers. Here we fucking go. Necessary. Can you take me back to the night that you found out that Tom was cheating on you with your at the time best friend, Raquel, like, I know you were at a concert of Tom's, his phone fell out of his pocket, someone handed it to you to just take your boyfriend's phone and hold it, take us from there. So they had like one more song after that. And so I was holding like my phone and his phone just kind of as a stack. And had no, like there's nothing weird about that. I mean, we were together for nine years, like me holding onto his phone, his, you know, his laptop, his, you know, whatever is not weird. So they had like one more song. And then afterwards, I got up to go over to him and tell him like, good job and give him his phone back. And he was talking to some other of the band members. So he's a little preoccupied. He's a little busy. And I was like, okay. And then literally I just in that moment, I was standing in the back of Tom Tom and I just was like, I don't know. I was just like, it felt like I like divine intervention or something because, you know, I've always been very hesitant to become like the snooper because I always feel like any time you snoop in anyone's stuff, even if they're not guilty of doing anything wrong, you always end up finding something you don't want to find or seeing something you don't want to see. And I always feel like it's a slippery slope because once you look once, then you want to look, it becomes an addiction because I've been like that in past relationships. So in this one, I was always like, I'm not going to do that. And if I ask about something, I will, you know, take their word, Tom's word at, you know, base value. Exactly. Yeah. Because I don't want to become that version of myself. Totally. And so, but in that moment, I just had this thought like this, like go do it. This is like a time to do it. And so I went into the bathroom at Tom Tom, I went into one of the stalls. He had not changed the passcode on his phone. So I knew, and that's the other thing is like we knew each other's passcodes, we knew each other's, so it felt like if you were going to be the type of person who is going to have an affair or be cheating or hiding things, you wouldn't also be so readily giving of your stuff like that. And so I looked in his messages, there was nothing weird in his messages and I was like, okay, maybe you're being dumb, you know. And then I opened his camera roll and then that's when I saw what I saw and I like busted out of the stall and there were like some girls in there that were just kind of going to the bathroom and I was like, oh my God, I'm so sorry. And then because I didn't go to the bathroom and I thought they're going to think I'm leaving the bathroom and not washing my hands, I was like, I promise I didn't pee or anything. I just, and then I just ran out of the bathroom and went straight up to him and he was like, oh, hey, do you want to go smoke a cigarette or something? And I was like, yeah, I do actually. And it's funny because there's a photo of him that I've seen like used in articles and stuff and it's from literally the moment I was walking up in his arms like this. And I see that photo and I'm like, that was literally like the moment before. And then we went and then he was very, we went straight out to the back behind Tom Tom. That's when I confronted him. What the fuck is this? Okay, pause for two seconds. Yeah. I feel like no one is saying specifically what the video is. Are you guys not legally allowed to be talking about what the video is? I don't know. Axe, you can, I don't know. Can I say what I'm speculating? Yeah, I can say. I think the speculation is in the camera role. There was a screen recording that he screen recorded while they were on FaceTime of them having FaceTime sex. That's what I'm thinking. And I think I know is what it was, but you don't have to confirm. But just to give people context that may have no idea about this drama yet. I don't know how you would. You live in Iraq. But that, so you view something like that. Can you just take me back in the stall? Just bring me to the moment where you come across realizing he's cheated on you with Raquel. What were you thinking in the stall? I was like shaking, like full body, like just like, I don't know if it's anger, shock. Like I think shock is a big part of it because I mean, I've been cheated on in my life before and I've, you know, caught somebody before like that and like way in my past. And I guess it's like that feeling I hadn't felt in like, we're talking like 15 years and like it's hard to describe, but it's literally like a combination of shock and anger and somehow disbelief that this is like truly what you're seeing. And yeah, and then like there's just, I don't know, it's really like a huge mix of emotions. It is. And like, did you think this was a one off or did you immediately think this has been a relationship? Like, is there a way that it could be a one off given the closeness of like all of our relationship to her? You know what I mean? So there's, there's no way and also to feel so comfortable doing that on a FaceTime. You know, there's no, there's just no way of it being like a one time, oh, we just decided one day to FaceTime sex. Like, right. Like, drunk and Lee, I'm like, who should I call? Well, I'm going to call Raquel and just like, yeah, yeah, no. Right. Yeah. So you start confronting him. What does he say? He was very, he wanted us to get into a car. He wanted us to get into an Uber and leave immediately. He was starting to call a car and then he took my phone and then I was trying to get my phone back and he ended up walking down the same as Sente with my phone and I was in like boots with a peeled. So I was like, it's like freaking you saying, being like, I need my phone back. Like, why didn't he take your phone? Because he thought, because I was like, Oh, I'm going to tweet about this. I mean, obviously I'm not. You know what I mean? Like you say things like that in those moments, you're not like, of course, getting him. I'm not calm about it. You know, I was freaking the fuck out. And he was very concerned about people hearing us because obviously we know, we know a lot of people in West Hollywood, you know, a lot of people at all the different bars and we were in the back of all these bars and he was very concerned about people finding out. And I was like, I don't care. Why would I care? Who am I protecting by doing that? So do you both get in a car together? And where do you go home? Home. What happens in the car? And when you get home. So in the car, we were. So I called Rachel during all of this after I got my phone back on San Vicente. I called her and that's when I was like, if you ever gave a shit about any woman ever about me as your friend, about literally anything, you need to tell me like when this started, whatever, like tell me. I was hysterical. And she said, that's when she said the part about like after the girls trip. And I was like, you mean when my dog died, like when Charlotte passed away is what the girls trip was. Like the fact that that is not even on your radar at all in describing this. And that's when Sheena came up and that's when Sheena took her phone and then said, I'm going to call you from my phone. I'm throwing her phone in the gutter. Sheena called me from her phone. I get in the car. Sheena's on the phone with me. And then he gets in the car and now he's on the phone with her. So all four of us are on the phone together. And it's literally like, why are you carrying like, why are you on the phone with her? Like who gives a shit about her right now? And then that's when he was just very dismissive, very defiant, dismissive of Sheena's friendship to me and to him in that moment. Like it was very much like just and the poor Uber driver. We should get him in here. I know. I remember at one point we stopped and got a pack of cigarettes because I was like, I want to just, I want to drink him in chains. You know what I mean? Like, of course, you're like one of those nights, like please. And he went into the gas station and I was just in the phone in the car with the Uber driver at that point. And I was just like, are you hearing this? And the Uber driver was like, yeah, man. Uber driver was like, whoa, but like give me five star. Yeah. Like it was just. So you get home and this is the part I think I've seen the world be so fascinated because you guys live together. You own a home together. So you both go home that night. And is it just like a screaming war till like you fall asleep? Essentially, yeah. Do you sleep in the same room? No, no, not at that point. No. So you sleep in a different room and like when you're by yourself, like, what were you thinking? Oh, I mean, well, I made sure to text close friends of mine and of his because I was like, I am not going to be in a position where and luckily because of the Sheena of it all, like at least I was like, no, we're not keeping this a secret. Other people know. Yeah. So I was making like texts were slowly trickling like what is what is happening? Are you kidding me? I mean, I didn't sleep. I mean, I didn't lay down to sleep until maybe like 6 a.m. That was how long we were like going at it, I guess. And he was just mad at me pretty much the entire time. That's also when I've been cheated on. It's like when someone that has been keeping a secret for so long gets called out, all they've been doing is lying. And so I feel like their natural response is lean in harder to like trying to gas like you trying to distort your reality, like trying to make you feel crazy somehow and like not take accountability. And somehow you're like, how are we fighting? How are you yelling at me? Like you fucked my best friend. Yeah. And I'm like screaming, crying, throwing up in this moment. And you're just like annoyed at the whole thing. So that night ends. And what we do know is like when this happened, you guys were not filming anymore. So how long after this happened did the cameras finally get in there? So this was Wednesday night. Yeah. And so it was Friday morning that cameras were at my house. Because what I could notice, because we've all been through a breakup like that, is like the conversation in the finale that we watched felt more like a breakup than like post morning, like literally go fuck yourself, like fuck you. Because there had been that little bit of that space. The final conversation between you guys, it was infuriating, I think, for the nation to watch because he's blaming you being like, I lost my mojo. We never had sex. Like I wasn't myself. I wasn't happy. And he was quite literally taking no accountability whatsoever for his actions. What was it like sitting there listening to someone as your her try to deflect all responsibility for what they had done? It was awful. It was brutal. But it was also what he had been doing for that past 48 hours up until that moment. So I almost kind of like knew that that's where he was headed. But then listening to it in the moment, not knowing what other people around me are thinking when they hear it, I'm like, is this am I? You like, you start to really question your own sense of reality. And this whole thing had me like, I did not at that point, like that 48 hours, especially that night, that Wednesday night and that Thursday day, like, and going to that conversation without having any other like witnesses or and also being in this position where it's like my partner of nine years and one of my best friends, like I my sense of reality was gone. Like I just did not know like what was up and what was down at that point. Yeah, yeah. You were very vocal this season about defending Tom and Raquel when people would come to you and you like had their backs. If someone would have come forward. And I know this is a hypothetical, but if someone would have come forward and told you about the fair, do you think you would have believed them? Or do you think you had to like see it yourself to believe it? I think I would have believed it if it was told to me off camera. Or if it was told to me, you know what I'm saying? Because I think to some degree, a lot of what I felt was rumors and rumblings was which has happened before people being like, OK, I heard a little something about something, but I'm going to bring it up because that's our job is, you know, we bring up everything that we hear about. And a lot of times it's nothing. And I was like, well, if it's nothing, I'm not going to have like my friend and my boyfriend be like dragged through the mud. I get what you're saying. It's almost like being on reality TV for so many years. You become almost more accustomed to this is obviously for content. This is for the show. This is for the show. This is drama. This was like, you're not actually going to believe that kind of shit. So if it was genuine, it would have come off camera. Right. Or would have. Yeah, it would have been a friend who's like, I'm going to end up bringing this up on camera. But I need to tell you. But I need to tell you first, because I think it's actually real. And I think that that's something that like my close friends would have done. OK, I got it. Yeah. OK. I do want to take a step back because as much as we're talking about, like in the weeds of like this affair, you were in a relationship for nine years with this man and you guys were friends before you got into a relationship. What was it that first initially attracted you to Tom? I just thought he was so earnest in everything that he did. And I found it really like endearing that he would be over the top in making a cocktail or over the top in just every day parts of life. Like I thought it very endearing and and sweet almost. And I also thought he was a really good friend to the people close to him. And I thought that that was a really good quality. Yeah. How would you have described your relationship with Tom to someone? I would have described it as like we used to call each other like apocalypse buddies, you know, like the person that all shit goes to hell. And this is the person that you can rely on that you want with you. He was going to continue to like make you laugh and get through all of what life has to throw at you. And like honestly, even right up until me finding out about this affair, like even during all the fair was going on, we were still like laughing together, you know, having like our little, we had so many like little inside jokes and things like that. And I mean, if you were to go through like either of our camera rolls, you would see just like so many, even during the affair, amazing, fun memories together. What was your sex life like in the beginning and then like as your relationship progressed? I mean, in the beginning, I was definitely struggling with, I was very excited that someone was like really, I thought really into me because the relationship I was in previously. That sex life was fine, but the same time I was being like criticized very heavily about my body and my personality, just everything. And so I was like, oh my gosh, this is somebody who's like really into me. And so that was very exciting. And I think that our sex life waxed and waned at different points. I definitely think that, you know, got to a point sometimes where, you know, I just wanted that quality time so bad. And I just think that in my mind, I thought, well, if we get through opening this bar, if we get through all this stuff, like then we'll be able to have all this time together. And I felt like he just was adding more and more things to his plate. And I just didn't, I don't know. I felt like I'm like, oh, well, he's just not into me. Yeah, it's like you lose the connection almost. And I think that's something because there's so many things you just said. First is from your past relationship going with someone that was very vocal about things they didn't like about you or your body or your personality. Like that takes a toll on your self confidence. So then to meet this guy that's larger than life and funny and jokes and is so into you, it's like, I totally understand that allure. And like you feel like alive and like happy and good with yourself. In the season, I think probably one of the hardest scenes for women specifically to watch was that scene with you and Raquel, where you open up to Raquel as your friend at the time, again, to people watching Ariana did not know about the affair yet. And you voice that you feel insecure about your body and you say, you know, why would he want to have sex with me? And for and watching her speak to you knowing she was fucking your partner is so painful to watch. But I when I watched that, I felt so bad for you because I'm like, did Tom not make you feel confident and make you feel good? It felt like, you know, he would complain about frequency of sex. And it felt like he wanted to have sex. But I was like, but do you want to have sex with me? Is it about me or is it just about the act? And that's where I was like, okay, so, but what is it about? He wasn't really great with like the words of, you know, like descriptors. I'm like, be specific. Like, what do you like? You know, like, what do you like about me? Yeah, like, I need to know those, like I want to know those things. Or I would be like, okay, well, do you like, you know, people have said that they think I have a nice ass. I don't know if I agree with that, but do you agree with that? Do you? And he would like be very turned off by the idea of me like being like, can you? Do you like, like that part of me or like, what are the, you know? Right. And I think that it wasn't coming necessarily from a place of like, he didn't like my body. I just don't think he knew how to express or maybe that's just a disconnect there and like, yeah, love languages or how to like click in that way. Because I get what you're saying, but I also did any fucking guy listening to this, it's like, when your partner is so clearly being like, I need some reassurance. I don't know the last time you've given me a compliment. That's also like a, hey, wake up like you want sex. Well, why would I have sex with someone that I don't know the last time I felt like pretty in front of you? I'd be like, can you objectify me? Maybe like, call me fucking hot. Right. Or like, he would say things like, oh, nice outfit. When I was naked or changing, he'd be like, nice outfit. And I'm like, I get the joke, but like, that's not connect. That's not going to like, no, really get me there. Something that really pisses me off is when men try to justify their cheating by being like, but we weren't having sex. Like I need to get my fix somewhere. And like it's so often that women are deemed as the problem. And of course a guy went and cheated. Like you weren't having sex, but it's like, but why weren't you having sex? And so was there ever a point where Tom or like this situation, as you kept hearing it, like we weren't connecting, we weren't physical. Was there ever a point where you were questioning, was that your fault? I mean, I think in the past I would have been inclined to do that, but because I was, had been in therapy and for years at that point, I knew. And couple therapy with him, by the way. And the couples therapists literally sat across from both of us and said, this is a him problem. This isn't a you problem. No, there's certain things I have to take accountability for in the relationship. But when it came to stuff like that, it's like, no, this is something that he's going through that he's dealing with. And don't take that on yourself. Like just please don't. Because it is my inclination to be like, I'm not enough. You know, we all have that lie that whatever the big lie is that we all tell ourselves, mine is the not enough lie. And the therapist was like, please don't do that. Right. It's actually has nothing to do with you. Yeah. I know hindsight is obviously 2020 and it's like, you can look back and try to, but like, were there any signs of red flags in the beginning of the relationship that you now see? I think in the beginning, it was like, you know, he likes to go out a lot. And I thought that that was just like the phase of life that we were in. And I would have thought that nine years later, we would be in a different phase. I think I'm in a different phase in my life. I still like to go out and have fun. I go to festivals, I party, you have a good time. But like as far as like going out during the week, just for the hell of it, it's not anyone's birthday. So, you know, it's not like a dinner and drinks. It's just like a, that's just not why I'm at anymore. And I thought that we were in that phase together and then we would come out of it. But I feel like he never grew up. He didn't really. Yeah. When you look back, I know a huge conversation on the internet is your relationship with Tom started by him cheating on his girlfriend, Kristen, you guys kissed. He lied to you and was like, I'm not with her anymore. But then it turns out Christmas, like we were fully together. So, and people are like, oh, you lose them. How you got him? Like he cheated on Kristen. He cheated on you. Like how do you feel looking back at how your relationship started and how people are now like, are you that surprised? Like he did it to Kristen. He did it to you. Well, to be very clear, I didn't lose him. He lost me. So that's right there. Sorry. Um, but I think that I trusted in him so much, even like as a friend back then, and I trusted him so much, like during our relationship that I trusted his perspective on things. And I think that I was caught up in whatever he told me that whatever was that he was telling me was what I was going with. Like that's not to say like, I'm a smart girl. Like, you know, I could have dug it deeper, but I didn't. Um, Kristen and I are very close and I love her so much. And their relationship, as she will tell you, it was very toxic. And there was a lot of cheating on both sides there, whatever. I love her. She's amazing. She's a very strong, incredible woman. And she has become like just such a force. Um, I think that it's something that just goes to show that that's kind of maybe just what he does is he says things like, I tried to end it or I'm in, you know, things like that or, oh, we're broken up or things like whatever it is. I would like to think that maybe this thing that's happening right now will prevent him from ever doing that again with any other person. Just because I think it's time to put that right tactic to bed. Uh-huh. Uh, but yeah. When you look back, I'm just thinking like, do you think he's a pathological liar? I mean, it's hard to say. I mean, clearly in the last seven months, he was a pathological liar. Yeah. It's now hard for me to look back at nine years. And if I tell myself he's a pathological liar, then I mean, so the last nine years of my life were potentially a lie, but he did say stuff on that finale episode to Sheena, like we weren't happy and we bought the house as a bandit. I'm like a bandit to who? Cause that wasn't where I was at at all. Um, or things like there were a lot of things from his perspective that have been said in that episode and otherwise that it's like, Oh, okay. Well, that's maybe how you were thinking, but that's nowhere near where I was. Right. And also we're in a relationship. So you should have shared that to me because I would have loved to know that cause I probably wouldn't have bought a house with you. If you were like, just to be clear, babe, this is a band date. You'd been like the fuck? Like, I mean, like, okay, well, maybe we should fix our relationship then now and do that and not do. Yeah. Couple therapy. Um, you and Tom got into couples therapy this past year and after he started the affair after it was full blown at that point. I didn't know that, but so when you got into couple therapy, you had no idea about the affair. You go in and he claims he initiated it. Is that true? Initiated couples therapy. Yeah. Yes, but it had been brought up by one or both of us over years of being together. Yeah. And it's since been revealed that he got you both into couples therapy as part of his eventual plan to end the relationship. What explanation did he give you as to like why he was so gung-ho ready finally for couples therapy? I mean, he was just, we got into an argument one day. Well, you saw on the show, we had that conversation on the couch. Um, and it was that conversation and then like one other one that we have where it was like, I think we should go to couples therapy. I was like, absolutely. I would love that we should do that, but it was those things in those conversations that led us to that. Yep. To going. Um, and I remember specifically one session. Cause we would do joint and we would do separate. And in my separate sessions, I was doing inner child work. I was sobbing with her. I was, I mean, I felt like I was making leaps and bounds. And he even said, Oh, we went to couples therapy and our relationship got so much better. Right. But like, it's like, well, duh. Right. Right. Like it's almost like a little counterintuitive that if he actually had the intention of ending it with you, why the fuck are you going to couples therapy? I remember even saying after one of them, I was like, okay, so. There was a session where it was, it got really intense. It felt like maybe we were ending. And at the end of the session, she was like, okay, so is this, you know, a breakup or you guys, and he was like, no. So that's where it's like, I don't, I don't know. Can you do mind sharing? Like when, when you guys are fighting, like, because obviously you're not fighting about the affair, what were your issues in the relationship? My issues is that I felt like he was not choosing me over like random nights out or that he just wasn't coming home. Like he would want to just be at Schwartz's for no reason. Well, are you fucking? Just, you know, having beers and whatever or coming home. And then, you know, I'd wake up and I'd be like, where are you? And I would like go down. He's just downstairs, like. Having facetime cigarettes and probably, but like, you know what I mean? It was just like the absentee boyfriend without and the, I have to do this for work after, you know, it was just everything was coming before me and before the relationship. And I felt like, and I needed that connection and that stuff, that all that stuff in order to be physically intimate. And I knew that physical intimacy was something that he was saying. He was lacking. So I'm like, I don't know how I can meet you where you need to be when I'm not being met where I need to be. Like, how do we figure this out? Right. It's almost like you both couldn't. It was a circle. It's like, no, but come home earlier. He's like, no, but like, I'm miserable because we don't have section. Like, but we need to hang out in order to have sex. And it just like, it was like, what I said on the show, I was like, I can't teleport your dick into my vagina from the bar because if you're at the bar and I'm at home, like, I'm here, you know, maybe I'm ready and you're just not there. So how do we do this? Right. Like we can't actually physically do this if you're never. But like, exactly. So yeah. So Tom did mention on that Howie Mandel podcast, like things did shift. You started to make an effort. Like what did you making an effort in his mind? Do you think look like? I think I just was doing my best to be present and going out with him more and trying to be more fun party time gal. Um, you know, I was just trying to be, I don't know, like fun and hot. I don't know. Right. Dude. And like, how the fuck did you feel when you were doing that? I mean, part of me was just like, I mean, this is fine. I, because again, I was still doing like that inner child work and it was, you know, I felt like that was really helping me just be like, I love myself and I'm, you know, doing, I mean, that like really changed the game for me. Yeah. When you say doing inner child work, like obviously share what you're comfortable with, but like what was something that you were like really struggling with that was clearly like you felt bleeding into your relationship that you were like, I'm going to work on this shit because like I want to be whole and good with myself. I think like this sense of perfectionism because I mean, I love my dad, but my dad also like didn't come home after work and stuff. And I was always like straight A student, super overachiever. And I think like going back and looking at it, a lot of times I did those things. I mean, maybe because I wanted people to be like, I'll be there. So I thought like if I could be the perfect girlfriend or the perfect girl that they'll come home, they'll want to be around me and I'll be enough. I won't have to be me tap dancing, doing shrooms and hang gliding. I can just be me and that will be enough. It's is it so fucked when you get into therapy also, you're like, oh, my God, like is it this obvious of like I'm dating a version of my dad or like I'm dating a you're like, how did this happen? Like my dad didn't come home. Tom's never fucking home. Like my yeah, I mean, I hate to speak ill of my I love my dad. He's a great person in so many ways, but he would, you know, sometimes just be like, OK, where there's a random dive bar down the street. I'd go do that instead of coming home and helping with homework. But it also makes sense, Ariana, because weirdly, we are attracted to things that are familiar to us. So it's like if that is what you were growing up with, weirdly, you're like, oh, I fucking got this with Tom. Like I know how to deal with this. I know I can do it the right way. Like, oh, I can do it right this time. I can kind of do it all over again and be better and be and actually he'll come home. Watch like all. And then it's like, actually, you deserve so much. That's actually not on me. It's on. No, no. You want someone that actually wants to come home and you don't have to beg them to be like, come on, like, show up, be there. Right. You said that you hadn't considered ending the relationship before all this came out. Were you truly happy in this relationship? I don't know. I think I was a version of happy that I thought was. I don't know what I wanted. And I also felt like the bones of the relationship were good. And I felt as though the potential for the relationship to be just incredible was there. And I think it was the potential and the OK, if we can make it through this time, the Fred again, song we lost dancing. I literally the night that Tom or that Schwartz and Sandys had the like their last like opening thing, I was driving Tom home and I was like, just listen to the words of this song. And in the song, when I think it's a blessing to Donna says, if I can make it through this next six months, what comes next will be marvelous. And I literally was like, if you can get through this, if we can get through this opening of this bar and whatever what comes next for us will be marvelous. And I I just cannot believe that he'd already been having at that point. He was already, I don't know, but it's it's must be such a mind fuck where you're like, which I also want because I know I've done it too, where like I remember when I was getting cheated on and I didn't know it at the time and you're making such an effort. And you're like, I feel so fucking stupid. Like how dare and it's like, no, no, no, you're not stupid. You were trusting the person you were in love with. Yeah. And so it's like, you also have to wrap your head around like this wasn't your fault, but it's like also crazy now that you remember these details of you putting in so much fucking work and be like, we got this, Tom. My only question though is like nine years. Now when you look back, because you're like, oh, my gosh, like I was like, you know, I was obsessed with like the potential, like I really wanted to be nine years in. If you're still fantasizing about the potential of what a relationship could be. Do you now have any ability to look and be like, hmm, if I didn't, you know what I mean? Like, or did you feel it in the first couple of years and then it dropped off? Like, was it always like this? I feel like things would kind of they would they would wax and wane. They would be ups and ebbs and flows. And I feel like we would have so many amazing times. So then if there was like a couple of weeks that were like not great or if I was like, unsure about something, there was so much other stuff that was great. Or I would be like laugh. We would be laughing hysterically about something or that it was almost like, I think hard to say, oh, this person's not right for me, because I also had never been in a relationship that long before. So it's hard to know like, what is it supposed to be like? You know, because past I think my, my, my longest adult relationship previous to that was I think like three years or so. So it's like past that point. This is uncharted territory. Got it. And I'm thinking this is what it is, you know, when you're with someone for nine years, when you're with someone for maybe potentially 10, 20, right? Like a fucking decade, decade. You know, things are going to be hard sometimes. I get that. I actually think that's like really relatable of like you try to see the good because there is good. Yeah. But when it's ebbing and flowing, you have to be like, we just have to say strong through the hard times. Like we just have to make it through. Well, because people say that who have been together for 50 years, who have never cheated and who have like, they're like the greatest love story of all time. And you think like, okay, yeah, they said that we had some hard times. Like sometimes you have a year that's hard. Right. And I, you know, especially this past year, I went through a lot and I felt like, okay, and he was going, I felt like we were both on our own going through these things. And so I thought like, we'll get through this together because I mean, I'm committed to this man and, but, you know, he didn't, you know, he had a full other relationship going on. Right. This season we found out a lot about your relationship there. You had talked about like how at times you would go through his phone and he was open with you and he would hand it to you or then we found out and watch what happens live. You were like, I have the iPad password. You fucking idiot. Like they're always so stupid. Um, and Tom mentioned you guys were only having sex four times a year and you were living pretty separate lives. Were you lonely? Yeah, but no, because I had my best friend. So he would be so jealous of me hanging out with my best friend Logan. Right. And he would be like, I feel like a third wheel when I go out with you guys and I'm like, well, because you, you go outside and you are on the phone or you're doing, you know, you, and so it's like, I don't want that for you. But so I filled that. I filled that absence of him not coming home and not wanting to do the same things that we wanted to do. I filled that absence with the most incredible people I know, which are my friends, which is like such like also a beautiful thing that you had great friends, but also kind of like clearly a deflector of like, instead of being like, we, why are we never hanging out? I'm just going to hang out with my friends, which is great. We love your friends. Right. Cause he was going and doing that, you know, and it was just like, or, but honestly though, the separate lives comment, yeah, to me is just so not true. I mean, to some degree, maybe, yeah, but when you're saying like, I have to work, I'm trying to open this bar and, oh, I have to go to dinner with Schwartz and Brett because we have to talk about the bar. And then, oh, I thought you were going to be home right after dinner. It's 12. Like what are you doing? Oh, we just went to get drinks next door at birds, you know, like things like that. And it's like, okay, well, but then if I, again, my camera roll and his camera roll, because I have it, right? Um, if you look at it, it's, we're still, we're going to concerts. We're going on dinner dates where we are, there is some, there is effort being made somewhere of like, you know, right? It just felt like it just wasn't enough. Yeah. No, I got it. You obviously mentioned you went through a rough year. You lost your grandmother. You lost your dog. I'm so sorry. How were you mentally grieving during that time? And like, what was your relationship with Tom when you were grieving? Cause I know you've been open about like, when you lost your dad, Tom was there. He was like, you're rock. He was in it with you. He was like the person for you. And this time around was very different. Were you concerned at all? Or were you just like full grieving? You didn't even like give a fucking pay attention. Yeah, I was full grieving because my concern, well, with Charlotte, my dog, he was there with me. He held her as we said goodbye. We literally said goodbye to her together. And then we went home and I put on my comfort movie, which is love actually. And we drink wine and we laid on the couch together and just like mourned together. And so I thought we were like fully on the same page there. I also know that like when it comes to it was the summer, we do have to, you know, we have to film, you have to go do stuff. We can't just we can't stay at home forever. And so a lot of times it would be like, OK, well, I have to I'm going to go film this. I have I have, you know, Boys Night or this or that. And I was like, go do it because this is what we do. And I maybe I'm not ready for that yet. But you go do it exactly. And so I definitely had no idea that, you know, he would betray me during that time because I thought he was also grieving when it came to my grandma. I was so concerned with my mom. So I flew home to my mom and then I flew back, filmed the rest of the season, which was like one week left. And then I flew back again to Florida and was there for like two weeks. It was during the hurricane in and everything. And I just I just extended my stay beyond the service and everything. And I just my concern was really just my family. When you were grieving your grandmother, isn't that when Tom and Raquel apparently were like at your house or something, having sex potentially, potentially, potentially. I mean, he has maintained that that's not the case, but I don't trust what he says. Of course, they facetimed me. The three of them, they facetimed me that next morning, like before any filming or whatever. So I was already aware that she had stayed the night because she it was like, hey, good morning. Yeah, I stayed the night like it was just no big deal. Is that one of the most painful things for you, aside from the actual fact that they were having an affair, like the casualness of just like, hey, girl, we're going to facetime you together and they're your best friends. So you're like, hey, guys, and they like literally just fucked. It's the duplicitousness. It's like the it's the backstabbing us. It's like less about like an affair. You know what I'm saying? Right. It's so layered. It's just really bizarre as well. Like it's just like I can't wrap my head around doing that. It's really twisted and sick. It is actually. Tom claimed he tried to break up with you multiple times, and your response would be, I'm not going to let you leave. You're going to have to force me. That there was only one. OK, so we tried. OK, he's talking about those conversations that we filmed. So the one on the blue and the brown and white and then I don't know if that looked like an attempt to break up to you. It didn't look like it to me. And then there was another scene that didn't make it to air that was pretty much along the same lines. And that was where we like decided we were actually going to couple of therapy or whatever that doesn't. That's not an attempt. And then that was in September. So then we had literally all the way up until. Just Valentine's Day. I'm like, January. No, Valentine's Day is in February. Right. So I'm like, what a day. Valentine's Day. Where are we? What's happening? Valentine's Day. He got me flowers. We went to Schwartz and Sandys. He pulled out a bottle of wine. We pulled out a bottle of wine from our first trip we ever took together. So obviously also after we had celebrated our nine year anniversary at Muson Franks on January 1st, like full, you know, like we went out. We had our anniversary dinner. Happy anniversary. Like great night. Right. Like we were having sex in January, like multiple times. So like. So also to confirm to everyone that's not following all this drama, it's like Tom really honed in being like I was really trying to break up with her. Like I was like sleeping in my bed and buying me flowers and we're going on an anniversary dinner and like going to couples therapy and all of that. So the Valentine's Day thing that he has referenced. Yeah. Again, got me flowers. We went to Schwartz and Sandys for dinner, brought a super special bottle of wine that was special to us. I got dressed up. I put like little hearts on my face. So he was like, you look so cute. We went out for drinks later. Rachel showed up. Did a few of our other friends. And then we went home and we were started kissing and he was like, I have to stop you. And then that's when he we had this breakup conversation. Then at the end of that conversation, that was hours long. And the end of that conversation was, all right, well, let's continue this conversation. You know, when he was saying things in that conversation, like I think I, I'm having a midlife crisis, like, and I'm like, absolutely. And I said, if we break up, I'm probably going to quit the show. I will probably leave Los Angeles. I will probably deactivate my Instagram. And he found that to be like very offensive. He was saying like, I don't know. Like I am was never saying that I was going to kill myself. I was saying that my life, this life will be over for me because I will go do something else. I've been fantasizing about moving to like the French countryside and fucking child. And like, honestly, to be fair, like in the conversation is quite tearful. It was definitely not like a positive conversation, but I'm not talking about physically harming myself. And given the fact that we had that conversation over many, many, many hours, he knows that that's not what I was saying. It's not just like one comment. And then we stopped talking. So the fact that I feel like so many things that I've said, not just in confidence, it's just me and him. Like we could sit here and word of words all we want. It's my word against his word, right? Okay. That's fair. And at the same time, it's like knowing me and knowing the conversation and knowing the conversations we had in the days after that, well, you were still sitting in my bed and we were still going to con we went to a concert on February 19th and there's videos that he has of me like dancing in the living room. And you know, so it's like, okay, so why are you sleeping in the bed? Why are we continuing to hang out? Why do we have any sort of relationship if to you now you're going to go on a podcast and say, are you on a new we were broken up? It's just like, in my opinion, I was like, you know what? I feel great about us having this open. I was really a rough conversation. It ended with, let's keep talking about this. The next couple of days we had more conversations. I said, you are going to have to, if you think this is over, you will have to be the one to end it because I'm committed. I'm actually thinking that this is like the potential for us to like be even to be great because we're talking about stuff now that we haven't talked about yet. Like we've never really gotten this far down this road before. So yes, if you want it to be, if this is over to you, like, you are going to have to, like you're going to have to do this. You're going to have to leave. Like that's not crazy. It's like a, like not all, I don't, we don't have to mutually agree upon the breakup. You know what I'm saying? Like, not only is it not crazy, Ariana, that was going to be my next question of like, I think the whole world watching it when Tom looked at Sheena and was like, I can't break up with her because she's threatened to kill herself. First of all, my problem with that, even if you had said that, which I appreciate you clarifying, but again, you didn't need to because it's like, number one, that's a huge fucking allegation to make about someone's mental health and to just casually say on a show when that's not the truth or it was the truth. Shut the fuck up. I have dealt with suicidal ideation before and I have been in very, very deep dark places before. So to then be flippant about it as if that's also something about me that makes me like deserve to be treated poorly is, is pretty awful. I think I couldn't agree more. I also am like, when you saw that clip, how, how did you feel? I mean, it made me angry, obviously. And then what Sheena said was like such a great thing. Like even if that was exactly word for word, what I had said, which no, but if it was, why did you do absolutely nothing to help at all? Like why didn't you call my mom, my brother, my friends? Right. Instead, you fucked my best friend. Right. Tom knows you have shared that you have struggled with your mental health. I have. He has clearly been next to you while you're going through things and purported to be my supporter and my partner in that. Why? If you were going to break up, why do you think you would leave everything and move? Like do you still? Well, now you did break up. You're not going to do that. Right. Are we going to the French countryside? Like where are we going? Where are we going? I'm down. But like when you said that to him, you really were like, I'm out because I didn't want to do, I didn't want to do all of this on my own or without him. And I didn't want to like just kind of like be like, all right, I guess I'll move into an apartment in studio city. And you know, I just was like, that's not what I want. And I was like, if this is going to change my life dramatically, not being that relationship, then I want to change it dramatically. I get what you're saying. It's like, I also appreciate, and I think a lot of people can relate to this. Normally sometimes when you have the worst fights of your life with your partner, it does feel like you can see the light at the end of the tunnel because you're like, we have never been this candid. We have not spoken in this way. So almost it allows for a dialogue where you're like, weirdly, we went backwards to kind of go forward. We're having progress. That is literally where I was at. I was literally where I was at because I'm also thinking to myself, a nine year relationship is not a relationship that ends on a, with a drunken Valentine's Day. But by the way, we were wasted when we got home that night. So I'm like, that's, you don't just have one wasted conversation. And then the nine year relationship. Right. So, right. But to him, he was clearly, and obviously in that conversation, there was nothing brought up about him having an affair with anyone. So it's almost like the whole thing, the whole thing was nonsense. And I remember asking him, I was like, why did you get me flowers? If you were like, I'm going to break up with her. And he was like, well, I really, I wanted to get you flowers. You just, I was like, oh my God. He really, it really feels like he really wanted to have both. I think so. I think he was very committed to the double life. I agree. Cause do you actually believe he was going to end it before the reunion? I don't know. Honestly, it's like hard to know. I do think that I've seen, I've seen some things. I've learned some things even after filming the reunion. Tell us, come on, give us the tea. One of those things is a text message from Rachel to Tom saying, I just talked to a mutual friend. I won't name them. And they said that you should be honest with Ariana, maybe not so much about all the details, like sleeping in the house together, but that she deserves to know about this. And then it's like, I love you. You got this. Oh, so kind. Just so, so generous. So I think it was only in that last little bit there, right before I found out that it was even the, I, that it was being workshopped. Right. That's when like, when I saw that they, they were like, we were going to do it before the reunion because we could never sit in front of her and let her defend. I'm like, bro, that's what you've been doing. You've been sitting in front of her and letting her defend you and Raquel and everyone. It's like, why would the reunion be any fucking different? Right. Oh my God, I hate this shit. Okay. Throughout this season, there were numerous comments from castmates about the dynamic of your guys relationship. And before the, the affair came out in January, you had to set the record straight that you and Tom were not in an open relationship. Why do you now with all the information, why do you think that rumor started? Honestly, I think it came from him. I think that, which it's been denied. I'll say that, but I think that so it came out that day that all everyone was at my house, that you see on the show that, I mean, obviously these conversations that are two minutes on the show are like two hours plus. And sometimes there are things that are said that are way worse than what is on really Bravo. Give it to us. What the fuck? Like his and I, my, our conversation, there were things that were way worse. And then in that conversation with all my friends, I think it was Sheena was like, um, so one of our friends back when this stuff started coming out and rumors were rumbling, it was apparently Rachel told a mutual friend that she thought me and Tom were in an open relationship because apparently he told her that at one point. And then when that got brought up, he was like, absolutely not. I never said that. And I was like, well, you should probably take that up with your little fucking girlfriend because she's the one who told that to someone else. And I, and you know what she said to that someone else, she said, even if that, she's like, I mean, I don't know if that's true, but I would way rather hook up with Ariana than Tom. And I think she said that because she was talking to a guy and she thought it was like hot, hot to be like, to say that. And so when Tom was like, I never said that, but I'm like, well, don't ask me. I'm not the one. That's information that's being brought to me that she apparently said. It weirdly, I do think in a strange way that is helpful to know because that narrative now knowing what we know, it's like that didn't get put out into the world by like no happen chance. Like it's not like everyone's like Sheena and Brock or in a no, and it's like, you know what I mean? It's like now knowing there's like a kernel of something that was planted somewhere that turned into something. Right. Like someone fucking knew it was an open relationship, but it was one fucking side. There's one person. Yeah. Because the other person's like, absolutely not. I would have loved to have known. I would have been like, let me know. So I can like, you would have loved to know like many times earlier. So you're like, oh, let me get on the same page. You're fucking Raquel. Got it. I'm out. Right. He was operating telling people that probably so that it wouldn't get back to you because it's like an un-said thing. Oh, Bill, then they must have some sort of trust, some rule. And so I'm not going to bring it up to her. I mean, that sounds fairly likely to me. Absolutely. Katie at one point said something along the lines of Arianna doesn't care. She just cares when people talk about it and she doesn't want to look dumb. Comments like that insinuating you and Tom had a different relationship and understanding off-camera than on-camera. And those comments were pretty heavy throughout the season of like they've got this thing on the side that no one talks about. I remember Lala went on a podcast and was like, they are the most different off-camera. Like how does that sit with you? I mean, to be honest, and I do love Katie and I do love Lala, but those were people who were not really in our inner circle like whatsoever for the last many years. And I don't think anyone within our inner circle would ever say anything like that. If you were to interview Logan or Brad or even Sheena, they would not say that. And those are people that we spent like a lot of time together with, went on trips with, things like that. So I mean, I get to them, maybe they think that that's fine, but they were not in our inner circle. Prior to the scandal, there had been other rumors of Tom cheating with other women. And it was disclosed in the fine finale that you did know about one of them in Miami. You guys weren't official. You talked about that. Now, knowing who Tom really is, how many people do you think? I don't know. There was one years and years ago that I got a DM that was like, Tom hooked up with my friend in San Diego. And I was like, and I brought it up over and over and over and over again because I was like, I'm drilling, I'm drilling. And it was like, no, absolutely not. No, no, no. I mean, it was like really just to know that now I'm like, no, I think that was a yes. And then there's specifically the one that he said, oh yeah, there was one other time. I'm like 99.9% sure I know exactly who that is also. But that being said, how many? I don't know because it's like, I don't know. Because I feel like he was so, I mean, there was stuff that he was getting away with that I learned about like within the last month. Like what? Like bringing Rachel home to St. Louis. When did he do that? Apparently more than once. While you were dating? Yeah. Yeah. So his family knew? It's hard to say like what exactly they knew or when they knew. I think they at one point they knew, but they were like definitely not condoning. And he wasn't, he was like putting her up in like a hotel. Like how diabolical to bring your side chick to your home? Like, and were they not afraid of Papa? Like what? I guess, I mean, it's St. Louis. I don't know. I don't know. Do they have those there? But you know what? That being said, there were some rumblings even before I knew whether or not that was true. There were rumblings of that on the internet. So definitely somebody had seen something at some point. What do you think about the Billy Lee situation? I do not think that anything happened there. You don't. I don't. And I, the reason I don't is because I mean, Billy Lee, okay, I understand that this sounds crazy because for someone I loved and trust, you know what I'm saying? Right. But I do really, I trust that Billy Lee would not do that. Have you asked? She has, we've talked about it. Okay. Okay. Based on people saying things online, she's been, yeah. Right. Yeah. Has anyone reached out to you since to be like, I also hooked up with him? They have not. Okay. I haven't had anyone do that. Okay. That's good for your mental health. Or are they scared? Are they scared? You'll be like on caller daddy, like, yep, Brittany from fucking Australia said that. No, dude. Honestly, I would not. If a girl, if any women did do that, yeah, you're not, I would not put them on blast because honestly, at the end of the day, as much as I think that they suck for doing that because they knew we were together, um, it's the responsibility in my opinion of the person in a relationship. I also think weirdly now knowing the drama of like the open relationship rumor he may have been putting out, what I've always said, like men, when they want to put their penis in something, they will say like a married man will be like, no, we're in the middle of the divorce later. He goes home to his wife. Like, sadly, she passed away. Like, literally, like she's not hearing it. Like he, we don't even know how he's, it's already so diabolical how crazy it's gotten that it wouldn't be surprising if every room he walked into in order to get a girl, like it was like we're on a break or we're like, it just, it's, it's, I fucking hate men. Okay. Um, does being completely honest with yourself, do you think you ever subconsciously turned to blind eye? Yes. Yeah. But I think I was given a lot of assistance in doing that because I would bring things up and I would be shot down and or I again with the, oh, let me see your phone. I think that I was given a lot of assistance in that, you know what I mean? Like, and he even said on the show, like, well, she didn't follow me. It's like, how much effort should I be putting for in a relationship? Should I be stalking my partner in order to know for sure, like what they're doing? Like, I get what you're saying. And I think also to him and listening, like we talked about you going through his phone and there are no texts. So it's like, at what point you have to just trust your partner because then you start to actually feel crazy of like, and I being just like so untrusting, like, you're like, am I just like a fucking bitch? Because now I'm being, you know, that person that's just so like, so what? And am I their mom now that's going to be like every time they come home, am I going to be like, all right, let me see your phone, you know, like that whole thing. And it's like, and then you start to feel like the psycho and they become the more normal one that's like, you're so crazy. Like, well, and then they get to use that against you later on. So it's like, you're either not psycho enough to like not figure it out or you're so you're too psycho and they're like, they know how to hide that now I'm going to break exactly. So they're like, you're so crazy. Here's my phone. Look. And it's like, well, then open the iPad if you didn't delete those messages. Did were his messages connected to his iPad? No, you're so and you know why? At one point they were and it was just like, we just get so many and it would just be ding, ding, ding. So it was like, we got to turn that off. This was years and years ago. It was just like the amount that I know. But the find my iPhone app. I would, you know, could see where the devices all were located. And they were always located somewhere that they should be the band rehearsal space or Schwartz's apartment. How much of the affair do you think happened at Schwartz's house? I think more than Schwartz is willing to let on because the recording was at Schwartz's and he's apparently felt real comfortable there. Yeah. And that's sad, sad apartment. And that's sad, sad location. Yeah. Yeah. That's fucking gross. Yeah. Do you think you kind of touched on this a little bit earlier, but do you think you were so quick to defend Tom? Not just about this, like through seasons, you've always had his back. You've always been right or die. And I think so many people, including myself, respected you for always being like, I'm going to stand by my fucking partner. But do you think that you would be so quick to defend him so that people wouldn't think less of him or so that people wouldn't think less of you for being with him? Yeah, definitely both. Because I didn't want people, I always saw a side of him that I felt like wasn't apparent on the show or on social media or whatever. I always felt like I saw a side of him that was like the home side. And so I always felt like if people could just see that part of him, they would like, they would get it, you know? And then in turn, yeah, I mean, for people to think less of me. I mean, I don't want them to be like, oh, this girl sucks at picking guys a date. Yeah. Although, I mean. No, we're leveling up, Ariana. OK, like it's getting better. I've seen it's gotten a lot better. When you look back on your time together, are you able to see any good or has what he's done completely tainted him and as the human he is? I don't think I'm there yet. Although some of these edits on TikTok that come on my for you page that have like ceilings, that ceiling song is playing and it's like cute clips of like, I can't because I feel like I mean, in that regard, I'm like, oh, that's maybe almost getting me there. But I feel like I mean, he even said, oh, because I've done this, then that negates everything else. And I was kind of like, I mean, it kind of does. I mean, it does. I hate to say it, but when you have an affair, you you cheat like that. I do think it does make it very hard for any for me to look at the relationship with any level of like nostalgia and maybe years from now. But yeah, it's also again, like the level of like truly lying and actually having what seemingly no remorse almost between the two of them. You can't help but wonder. And I think the whole world was like, what else has this motherfucker done over these nine years? It's like, this is the one we know about. And then, oh, there was one in Miami and then there was one in San Diego. It's like, what else? Because he's good at fucking keeping it close to the chest. And he has no fucking issue lying to your face. No. So what else was there? Like, I get what you're saying. It's like, that's that's difficult. Yeah, that's difficult. And it also makes it feel like you look back on on the relationship and times that you did think that were good, that were happy memories. And you think like, well, did they didn't really like me or respect me during those times, right? Because I don't know. What do you miss about the relationship? Um, I would say. Inside jokes. Bingo balls together. The fun, funny, just stupid stuff. Yeah. That like, comfortability of like, you like the same language. Yeah. Like, we know each other. There's a deleted clip from Vanderpump of you, Tom and Raquel in a hot tub in Mexico. And you say, it looks like we're in a threple. That feels like a foreshadowing now, knowing what we know. What specific moments did you have to look back on or you look back on now that you're like, whoa, something so fucking shady was going on in that exact moment. And I, I didn't know. I didn't know that one. In particular, that's the right. He's like fingering her in the hot tub. You like don't know. And I'm like, this is hilarious. You guys, like I'm so drunk. I'm like, this is so funny. And by the way, his whole thing about like skinny dipping and and angle lighting, I went hang lighting and I clearly went skinny dipping. Like, I don't know what the hell you're fucking talking about. Anyways, there's that there were times where we would have like a bunch of people over in our house and we have a guest bedroom and that guest bedroom gets used a lot by a lot of our different friends and her being one of them. And we would be like, we would have friends who'd be like, bring over the dog. So like my brother would come and bring his dogs and our friend, Jesse Montana would come and bring Indio, which is like my dog's best friend. And Rachel would bring Graham over, who is honestly a terror. He bit me before. Like mother out there. He's not a well trained dog. He's kind of a little jerk, but we would let it go because we're like, that's our friend's dog. Like maybe he'll and she would always purport it to be like, it was because like maybe like when her and James had him together that maybe like it was the way he was raised as a puppy. And I'm almost like, clearly James was not the problem. Like I try to like move the food bowl and he will try to bite me. Like he's crazy. He's very cute. But it's on his fault. Right. It's not his fault. Right. The owner's fault. And bring your dog. Yeah. Anyways, we would have people that would come over, stay in the guest room, stay on our couches. Like it's a very normal thing. And sometimes I'd be like, all right, well, it's like, too, I'm going to go to bed. Can we like turn the music off or can we, and my poor neighbor has so many times been like, Hey, like, and I'm like, I'm not, I'm not even down there anymore. I have to like go down there and be the person's like, can you please? And it just was like so annoying. Um, and there were times where I would like go up to bed or whatever because it's late and I have a life and a career and responsibilities and, you know, 28 year old failed pageant queens don't. And so they'd be able to stay up super late and hang and have no reason to get up the next morning. And that's fine. If you weren't fucking my boyfriend also at the same time. And there were times like that where if I could go back and be like, why are like, what's going on? You know, right? Things like that. Do you think they ever had sex while you were upstairs? Yes, I do. I think they had sex in my guest room while I was sleeping in my own bed that he and I went to bed in together and then he left the bed and went to the guest room and fucked her. Yes, I believe that. God bless you. God, God bless you. Ariana. That's like. Trust issues. Like how like fuck, fuck him. Cause how do you even begin to like. Trust someone after like that level of like nine years with someone and they're that fucking comfortable in the home that you co-own. Yeah. Oh yeah. And like when people say Tom's house, I'm like, excuse me, it's my house. Uh huh. We own that house equally. So I don't ever want to hear that. In one episode you said Raquel is kind, sweet and loyal and has just been a delight since the day I met her. How would you describe her now? Oh my God, lost. Lost. I mean, I don't know her. I realized now I never knew her, but I certainly don't know her now and we don't, I don't know anyone who does know her. And so it's hard to say, but based on what I've seen, lost and empty and just, um, potential, I don't know. Yeah. I think a lot of hard to say, cause it's like, I don't really know what's going on. Some of the behavior has at times seemed sociopathic, but at the same time, I'm not really sure like what is the real deal. Yeah. It just sucks that you were kind of in the middle of something that someone that has clearly no remorse was involved in the destruction of also your relationship. Sure. And I at the time was like, I kept telling her like, it's okay to make mistakes. It's okay to like, you were so nice to her. Ariana, do Raquel and Tom make sense together to you? No, no. I mean, unless he has changed everything that he has ever said that he's looking for in someone, um, then no. How did you feel watching them on screen together in Raquel's apartment? Like that was the first time we all kind of see them able to romantically interact with her. Like, oh my gosh, this is so weird. We can't kiss on camera together. Like how did it feel watching your partner of nine years, just literally the day before I think it was look at you being like, I'm going to her place. Yeah. I'm going like also just so shame. Oh, and by the way, after he filmed that scene with her, he came back to, to my house and it was essentially, I mean, you saw how many flowers were there. So I, there were probably like 15 people there. I still had not slept, still not eaten. My friend Janet came, got all kinds of things. She was making French onion soup to like, Trek says my favorite. And that's my favorite too. Yeah. So she's making French onion soup. Our friends had all brought over like wine and we were just watching drag race and every, it was, it was essentially a funeral, right? Because these were all also people who were friends with him and we're friends with her and they were like, we've lost these friends because we cannot like in good conscious. There's no, there's nothing, they, they, we've lost them as well because we don't want to, there's no way I can imagine. If he's willing to do that to me, is he willing to do to you? Exactly. Diabolical. I can understand. And so he walked in the house after filming that scene, yelled at everybody. This is his house too. He, he referred to it as a party that I was having a party. I went to bed. It was like 9pm. I finally fell asleep on the couch. He went upstairs. Kristen and our, another one of our mutual friends, Courtney, had to be like, you should probably go. Like, why are you here? And then eventually he left and there were paparazzi shots of him going back to her apartment after. So he came back to the house, yelled at everybody to like get out of his house and blah, blah, blah. And then we find out later on, he was definitely like tuning into like the cameras in the house, like watch. Like we were doing literally nothing. We were, you're called a party. We were having a funeral. Thank you. Yeah, exactly. You're done. Bye. So, but that scene was very cringe on so many levels. And I think it was that scene and that, that conversation that I watched that made me, when you asked me like, do they make sense to you? I was like, no. It was awkward. Yeah. The whole thing of her being like, I love you. And he was like, no, I said they love you, but I love you too. Like, how did you also feel knowing that they said to each other that they love each other? I mean, I kind of knew that before watching, I mean, I knew that before watching it, that that was like where they're at. Yeah. But it was cringe. Do you think Tom misses you? Um, yeah, I do. Do you know that? Like has anything been said? No. You just know. I just feel like as someone that he would go to for advice on mostly everything, um, up until like that moment, or I just think that there's no way that he doesn't because he's been making a lot of like very questionable decisions over the last two months. And he doesn't have that like sounding board or that advisor anymore. What is the extent of an apology that you've received from ETH chip them at this point? Hers was like a nothing. Hers was a text message that was very like, I just don't know what to say, except that I'm sorry. Like that was it. That was that day. It was March 3rd that I got that one. That was that night I went to a concert, um, to see Tovlo. My friends were like, let's get you out of the house. Right. Let's go just do something fun and then we'll go back and we'll heal. But, um, and then at the reunion, it was very, um, sub par. It was like a rehearsal speech. And I was just like, shut the fuck up. Right. It's like someone told you to say these exact lines. Like nothing is inside here. Yeah. Nothing had clicked. I didn't feel like it was genuine. Also that kind of text message, you're like, that is the kind of text messages you send when like you were a bitch the night before because we were drunk and you said some things and you're like, I'm really sorry. I don't know what to say. I'm embarrassed. Like you had a almost year affair with my boyfriend. Like maybe you should send multiple pages of an explanation and like, okay. And what about Tom? Well, obviously you saw how well I told you how that night went. Um, the next day, not much better. And then that scene that you saw, which was two hours and there was a lot of like way worse things that he said. Um, like what? Like, what is he saying? Like at one point he was like, Oh, well, I'll keep taking care of the house. Like I always do. What is his obsession with like the batteries and the fucking toilet paper? He's like, I take care of this house. Like you have an assistant. Right. Like, right. She goes and gets the, like he says, Hey, we need this. And she goes and gets it. Like it's not like, I literally saw a take to have a girl being like, how did not get cheated on one on one. And she's stalking the house with like batteries and toilet paper. I'm like, if only Ariana had stalked the toilet paper. Maybe like he acted as if like that was a huge point of contention and like why he cheated. He's like, she would never stalk the house. Like Ariana didn't do these things. And you're like, bro. I noticed. Yeah. Like over the last two months, I've noticed like there was one day I was doing, I think I was shooting spawn con like downstairs at one point. And all of a sudden he's like, asks his assistant, like, does she know where the ladder is? And it was by me. So she brought it. And he's like, I'm going to change the filter on the air conditioner. I'm like, what? You wouldn't do that now? Cause it's like, now you have this thing. You have to like uphold that you like do all these things. I am the man of the house. It's like, chill. Yeah. So it's so cringe. Um, would you go back and change anything you did? Honestly, I want to say no, because I feel like, listen, I've seen people online be like, she wasn't perfect. Well, obviously. Who is person? She's not innocent. Okay. I don't have to be. Um, I was very much a committed partner in this relationship. False, what does it, warts and all. I was very much committed and I feel like I was doing my absolute best as a partner. Um, but I don't think I would do anything differently just because I feel like all I can do is my best and whether my best was good enough or not for anyone. Um, that's what it was. And I feel like, yeah, I could have been less trusting. I could have been more paranoid or it could have been, I could have followed or I could have bought pens and batteries or whatever. But, um, ultimately I think that if I go back and try to like change all the things that I would have, could have shut up. I mean, I would never stop. So. Do you think that had you not caught him, do you think you guys would still be together? It's hard to say in this moment because, you know, there was this, uh, there was a plan, um, still together. I almost think no, given that I know about this plan now. Can you explain what the plan was to people? The plan was, I think, to end the relationship under the guys up like that Valentine's Day conversation. Um, for that to eventually stick, eventually that would be the, that was the end game to break up with me without any mention of any sort of affair or cheating or anything, um, whether that was pre reunion or not, or pre going to film winter house or not. And then, you know, go about whatever. And then they would just start dating. Yep. But the narrative that he was the victim in our relationship or that I was just, I just suck. So, um, would have already been planted there. I think that was part of like a, there was a master plan. Yeah. It's a little wild to see like how much he was working it towards the end there. Like you guys weren't really in this season that much. And then to watch like halfway through or even a little bit farther than halfway through, he just is coming out of the woodwork complaining to Tom. Oh my gosh, we're not connecting. We don't have sex. I don't know. Like it is pretty diabolical now that you watch it. Like, Oh, this was a whole plan set the stage. I'm not happy. We don't have sex. We don't connect and then end it. And then in all he thought was going to work perfectly and thank fucking God it didn't because it's disgusting. I know I'm actually like, there was one point, um, I think it's him or Schwartz had said to me at one point, like, I'm so sorry that you found out this way. And I was like, I'm so glad that I found out this way because if I had found out the way that y'all had planned, it are like, are you kidding? Like it would have been. I would have been just a cog in the machine of this whole narrative, this whole thing. Do you ever think back to like that night with the phone and you're like, thank God. Yeah. And I also think what the what was it? It felt like like a beam. Like I hate to say a lightning bolt. No, literally, but it really truly felt like a lightning bolt of do this right now. And it's like, I don't know. That's why I say like it felt like some sort of divine intervention because like, and I'm and I'm not like, I don't really believe in God. I don't know. Like, I don't, I'm not a religious person, but he means there is something that just went like something went off and it's so weird because I don't know how to describe it because like so many other times I would have been, I could have. He even asked me that. He was like, why didn't you go through my phone? You know, when I was sleeping or whatever. And I'm like, because I just didn't ever want to do that and be sneaky like that. Like I don't want to be sneaky and that makes me feel sneaky. But yeah, thank God. A woman's intuition is never wrong. Mm hmm. What have you now uncovered that repulses you about this whole situation? The flying her to different places. I know that she was that I watch what happens live appearance where Schwartz was covering his mouth and acting all weird. Yeah. It's because she was in the hotel room. She was there in New York. I know for a fact. He was he was so. He was using like other people's credit cards and things to like like basically making them pay for things and then been mowing them later so that like it was just really messed up. And you know what? Honestly, it makes me really upset because I feel like he put people in a position that they felt like they didn't know what to do. And I feel bad because I feel like it that just I can only imagine how heavy like how much that weight on like this was a whole fucking operation that he started to get running where it's like the credit card here have some unbooker in the hood like it was like who knows how much farther it would have gone. Sure. And having the band and the touring and stuff like that. I feel like it was a very easy way to be like, well, I have to be out of town. And then she could then be flown to wherever that show was. And I would have no idea because he's coming home exactly when he's supposed to come home. Right. Of course he's out late. He's playing a show. Like there's nothing about it. Like he's was very good with with that. It does start to make you wonder was the is this band just a whole cover for the to fare it because like objectively I know you were in love Ariana, but like. It's not great. The band's not great. I feel like it's gotten well. Wait, has it gotten worse? Or did you just open your eyes or. Can you now just like unbiasedly look at it and be like. Those were love goggles. Yeah. And now we flicked them off and you're like, OK, yeah, don't need to watch that anymore. Do you know if there was a night ever that you had sex with Tom the same day he had sex with Rick? I don't know that. I don't know that. Oh, that would be yeah. Extra therapy sessions for that week. Yeah, I would love to know. I do. Would you? Well, well, I've already I've already had my pan. I'm good. OK, right. So now it would just be like, oh, of course, like an LOL moment. Yeah, right. We've already gone through the worst now, like just like the details just become like, oh, that's but then you see like sometimes it makes me laugh because at this point it's like it is so. Again, you ask that question and I'm like. Maybe so. Right. But seems like a right, right. I don't know. The reunion airs this week. How did you feel going into the reunion and how did you feel walking out of it? I felt going into it like it had only been like what was it? OK, March 1st. We filmed the reunion March 23rd. It had already felt as though it felt like there was like a wall, like a divider had built had been built somehow between the current, the past and the present. And that feels so weird. And maybe that is again, like a compartmentalizing coping mechanism, but it also felt as though going into it. We were all on the same page. Like and that's never happened. So that I felt gave not just me, but Sheena, Lala, Katie, James, we all had this like vote of confidence amongst our each other. And we all knew that we were all on the same page with that. And so it felt it felt like a boost of confidence in that way of just knowing like I don't have to sit here and question whether or not I'm right or not wrong. Or Lala's right or wrong or James or Sheena or Katie is right or wrong. We know and we feel that like deep in our gut and that right that felt good. Yeah. It was weird. I mean, honestly, that that three weeks was like really fucking weird. And so to go into a reunion and I'm a not sitting next to him, but I'm also not like he would say stuff and I'd be like, Because normally I would be like, well, what he's trying to say, because he'd he'd always almost like needed a translator at times because he would have an opinion that we had we had talked about things, you know, at home. And so I understood where he was coming from or like what he was trying to get at. But like, then he would voice it and no one else could get it. So I would be like, okay, so what do you really this is what we're waiting. And so to be there and like sink yourself. Not my job. What was it like sitting and having to listen to Raquel? Painful and not painful in the sense of like, she hurt my feelings. Painful in the sense of like, I really did not feel like she was connected to the moment or reality at all. I really feel like, again, then March 23 that the two of them, both of them somehow maybe it was like they were feeding it to each other. Because I don't know who else would be they thought people are just mad. Yeah, I'm a little mad at you. And like, we'll be fine. Like, I think that's like where both of their minds were at. And so the the gravity of what they had done or were doing or whatever it was just not hitting at all, he was still, I mean, look, I think she just, I don't know. And I was like, I mean, I don't know why you're sorry now you thought you were a hot shit when you're doing it, right? You thought like, are you kidding? Uh huh. So how would you describe your emotions during the reunion? I was angry. Um, at times I was sad, but I honestly think that the biggest thing that I felt that there was like a question that was asked towards the end that I was just like, I was so grateful for my friends, both the friends that were there that day and otherwise. And I honestly, a lot of it felt numb in a way, because it felt like as angry as I was, it was almost difficult to connect to what once you go angry, it's very hard to like come back from that. Totally. And yeah, that's where I was, I think. Was there anything you went into the reunion with of like, I'm making this up like, I'm not going to look her in the eyes or I'm going to make sure that I don't look him in the eyes. No, literally, I was like, I'm not looking at either of them. I will communicate to Andy or to Lisa if I have to look in that way. Otherwise, I will speak to the, the, the emptiness, the, the soundstage. Was that like your own thing? No, literally, that was me. Like, I was like, I'm not looking at either of them. And then eventually a couple of times I did. But I mean, that was, was that your main thought going into it? Yeah, it was like, I will not speak to them. I will speak like I will answer. Right, but I'm not. But we're not going to deserve my, I get it. Um, did you feel like you were able to get closure from the reunion? Um, yeah, I honestly felt like I had closure before that, before the reunion. And then at the reunion, I mean, I said what I felt like saying in the moment, but I honestly felt as though everything that happened, I think I even said it, but it didn't make it to air, but I was just like, this happening. I mean, you made it really easy for me to just not give a shit about you. Like breakups are hard. You miss the person. You know, you think what could I have done? What could they have done? Are we going to get back together? You know, you have all these things, right? When you go through a breakup, but when something like this happens, you're like, bye. Like there's literally nothing about that person. Right. Even if I missed him like in the first few days, like even that feeling of missing him. That's not who whoever that is is not that person. So I feel like that's also a good bit of advice for people listening that maybe be going through something similar of like, sometimes weirdly, the more that the person hurts you in terms of how they decide to betray you, you can find some type of hope of like, that just made it so much easier to never look back. And that is even more hurtful to fucking person that fucked with you because it's like, it would have been like, if I kind of, if you fucked up a little bit and we had a fight and then we did like, he closed that door. You didn't even have to fucking push it. Oh, he slammed that door shut. And I almost think that that was why the, the elaborate plan was what it was. Is because then I would, then I would want to get back together, right? Of course. Or I'd be sad or I would be, you know, struggling. You know, it's thank, but God, thank God. Yeah. Was there anything specific that was really hurtful that he said to you? That you kind of can't shake still. I think it was the, it was the way that he weaponized any struggle I've ever had with my mental health. That to me was like the most hurtful. Apparently there is something so wild. Okay. Yeah. There's something so wild that's going to be revealed in the reunion that could potentially have you guys not want to sign back up to be on the show. Have you thought of, I know your group must be going off. Like, no, we all are just, we haven't even, I'm like, and I'm very like, because I've talked to like our show runners and stuff and I'm like, I think I know like what the deal is, but I am like, not entirely sure. There's a couple, there's a couple things out there. Raquel's pregnant. I don't think so. A fair started during James and Raquel era. Maybe. Right. But like, then that's, is that that crazy? Right. Cause what difference really would that be? Right. We all hate them. We still hate them. Okay. Lisa knew the whole time. I don't think so. I don't, I don't think so. I have, She would have brought, here's why. She would have brought that, she would have brought that up. Right. Like I had a feel. Very early on, because again, there's a lot of speculation of like things being staged and whatever. Right. This all happening after filming just from a, just from a logistic production standpoint, not to mention the fact that like, this is my real life and these are my real feelings and this is something we're really going through. Right. But for those naysayers, just from a production standpoint. Yeah. Something like this happening months and months afterward, not filming and there's no cameras around and they had to borrow a crew from house on Beverly Hills, even film after that is a nightmare for production and for our show because they want every, everything that's going to happen. It's like, you want that to happen in real time while we're filming. Of course. Cause otherwise you lose it. It's gone. It's hearsayers. You know, something happens off camera. That's like not ideal. Right. If Lisa knew she, there's no way that's right. On the last one I've written down, which I think is, I mean, this would be fucking awful. Raquel hooked up with Brock. Oh no. No, I don't think so. No, no, there's no way. What is something that could come out that would make you not want to go back to the show? I mean, anything that like makes me feel unsafe or for my dog to be unsafe and it's something like that. Anything safety wise would be, I think the only thing that would make any of us be like, we're not coming back to film. But I mean, I can't see that. What the fuck? I know, I guess we're going to see. I mean, I kind of have an idea. Do you want to tell us? No. You can't. I'm like, okay, you'll tell me off camera. We're like, then I really won't come back to film. Yeah. You then literally kicked the fuck off and I get sued. So that'd be fun. Okay. But you think you have an idea. Yeah. Is it as bad as everyone's speculating? I don't think it's something like that. Right. It's just like more drama. Yeah. I think so. But I don't know. Because again, like you could, I haven't seen it. So I don't, I got it. Okay. Let's get like happy for five seconds. Okay. Yeah. Okay. Because what I, should we have more roses? Yeah. Can we have a little bit? Yeah. Let's, let's pour more. What I appreciate in you being really open today is like, I said to you when you walked in, this is sadly really fucking relatable. I remember sitting on the bed in New York City and being like, he hasn't done anything. I just have the fucking feeling. The divine. I need to. And I looked him in the eyes, Ariana. And I said, I need you to open your iPad. And he's like, I'll give you my phone. I said, no, the iPad. Oh my God. So what was it on that? What was the? He was totally having a sexting nude with his nutritionist. He was a professional athlete and he would show me his nutritionist all the time. Like she recommended the bison and I'm going to eat the bison this week. Because he's like, her advice is like so great. He would talk about her. He would talk about her to me. And I remember when he opened it, she was not the first person I went to because I was like, okay. Cause you're just seeing her. But you know what's crazy? I didn't even need him to open it. The minute I asked him and I put it down in front of him, I pulled it out from my back. I said, open it. He went ghost white. I didn't even need him to open it. I was like, oh, like I knew. And then I saw it and I remember going into the bathroom, throwing up. And I think we can talk about this a little bit, which is, I wouldn't say it's like embarrassment, but there's like a level of for five seconds because this is also the person you love. Your love doesn't go away the minute you see it. You hate them. But like five seconds ago, I was in love with this person. There is a part of you that wants to be like, no, no, no way. Yeah. Yeah. It's not real. It's not real. But it is. And it's like that gut punch. Yeah. And it's like, do you have any advice and all thing too of like for someone sitting there that just found out that they were getting cheated on? Like how do you mentally wrap your brain around being in love with someone that you trusted and then the ultimate betrayal and trying to be like, I want to go have them hug me because they're usually the person that consoles me. But you also fucked me and like, I would be like, look, maybe have that moment right now. Give yourself an hour to have that moment or that night and then get away from them. Like, like obviously we're still in the same house, but we are most definitely in different rooms. And you have like, I know exactly like when he's coming back to the house and I know what to like, I, we do not cross paths. That being said, like as much as you can have that conversation, do what you need to do, get your ducks in a row and then get away from them and don't, don't allow them to like come back into your life. Because again, if it's somebody who's willing, who is capable or talented enough, it's the of being able to create those lies and stuff. They'll be, they'll be able to create something to, to pull you back in at some point. And then so you have to separate, you have to go no contact. You're so right. And then also if you go back, they're just going to be smarter next time. And that is, I think the worst of like, there's going to be so many things that are said to you, but I also believe like there's one thing if someone comes to you and tells you and it's like, I did this, I feel disgusting. I'm sorry. When you find it, when they're apologizing, they're sorry they got caught. Oh yeah. Keep that in mind. If they are going to apologize because I've had a lot of women that I've spoken to online since all of this have said my ex was the same way. He was angry. He was yelling at me. He was pissed. And it's like, it's, yeah, it's this, the house of cards has fallen and they're angry about that. They're not so much like remorseful or upset. It's not about how you feel. It's about the fact that all the effort that went into creating this, to building that little house of cards got blown over so fast. And now what? And I fucking love how much you talk about your friends because I, and I also love how you talk about this distortion of reality. Like the great Esther Perrell always talks about, like when you get cheated on, your reality becomes so distorted and you are like wobbling essentially. You can't see straight because you're the person I actually loved most and trusted the most in my life and you just ripped the rug out underneath me. You have to immediately surround yourself and I know you're embarrassed. Part of you also sometimes doesn't want to tell anyone because you're like, cause you are like, Oh my God, now I'm that person or, you know, and then if you tell people it's over, right? Once it's out, well, it's like, they always say to like, whenever, if you and your partner just get in like petty fights, like don't tell your friends because in your, they always say that, right? But it's like in this, if it's this big of a thing, you got to do it, you got to do it and you got to surround yourself with your friends as quickly as possible. And then that way they can also hold you accountable and be like, absolutely fucking not. You are not allowed, like this is not happening. And then also if you are in a situation where you do have a gaslighter or a manipulator and you have a friend over, you have someone sitting right there going, no, I heard what they said. I saw how they were. It's not just you because that was my big thing is it was like, there was no one else there. And so I would question everything. Yeah. And then my friends that were, you know, at the house, like again, like when he came back and was like, are you guys here? It's like, well, thank fucking God. See, I was like, so you guys saw that, right? Like, of course, like my anxiety is going through. I'm like, oh my God. Oh my God. What? But see, that's what it's been like. And they're like, okay, yes. So now we see the reality because otherwise, you know, and that's again, I just think it's so important to talk through this because when you're in it, it almost becomes impossible to see straight. Yeah. And you have to remember. First to it. You're, you're too fucking close and there's no, like you have to act like we just keep saying, and I always say it back to myself when I have friends that go through it, like you loved this person 30 seconds before you just found it. So that isn't gone immediately. The hurt, the anger, all of it, but you still love that person. So you need someone and you have to remember what your friends have no ulterior motives other than making sure you're good. And so just catch yourself if you're going against your friends in that moment. It's because you're trying to hold on to something and let them be the anchor to pull you the other way because they're actually just looking out for you. Yeah. And talk to them about it. Yeah. If you're sad, you miss them. Yeah. You want to talk about like good times and stuff like that. Talk to your friends about it. Like, and then just, but keep that, that no contact. I'm telling you that was an, I think that was the whole like, in my life, blah, blah, blah, because I knew that I would go no contact. I'm so proud of you. I knew that's hard. That's fucking hard. But I knew even, even if it was just a breakup, I knew I was going to go no contact. Wow. How did you know that? I just felt it in my gut that that was like the way to go. And like in the past, I had not done that with other relationships. And then like I've been on TikTok a lot the last like three years. And I would see stuff about that. And I was like, okay, I think that that's like in this situation. That's what I would have to do. Yeah. And I think that that was, you know, part of what was like, oh, I don't know, the troubling to him or something. What, that you wouldn't speak to him? Yeah. What did he expect? Right. That we would do the shorts and Katie like dog custody thing. Like we're not doing that. No, you're getting the dog. Absolutely. Oh my, what is Jennifer Gould take? I'm getting the dog. I'm taking the damn dog. Fuck you. Oh, that's so good. Wait, so you're like, I'm fucking taking the dog. Well, I paid for her adoption. My name is on her adoption papers. And she loves you more. I paid her vet bills. I took her for walks. I gave her baths. Like, see, Ariana, things that I would do that he wasn't doing. He gets the batteries. You take care of the fucking dog. Dude, no, but I get what you're saying. And that's another point. When you are so strong to be like, I'm not speaking to you. This is a boundary motherfucker. Oh, it rages them. Yeah, I think the the setting of boundaries has been, you know, well, and you saw him at Lisa's breaking, like, I don't know if it was real or not. Honestly, I felt a little bit like a performance to be honest with. But then also, of course, I'm going to be jaded because I don't trust. Right. And we have to. And it just yelled at me. And then the day after he yelled at me again after the Rachel scene. So it, you know, it's hard to say. But that being said, the biggest thing that he was upset about in that moment was that he doesn't get to have another conversation with me. Because I'd said, you don't get another one. It's done. Like, say what you need to say now because we won't be doing that. And by the way, my friend Meredith and my other friends, like they, she's the Capricorn Queen of my dreams. She made a spreadsheet that was like, who's going to be staying with me? What night? I did not stay alone for weeks. And even after I went, I had friends fly in from New York to make sure I got to the wedding in Mexico that I went to. And then even after I came back from Mexico, I still had friends that would stay with me every night, make sure I ate, make sure I said they were like, they had like their own group texts. Now they've friends that didn't know each other before become friends. And I've like always wanted them like, you guys love each other. Like now they're like, now they're better. It's like, honestly, like the, the community that is our friends, like on and off the show is like the most incredible group of girls, gays and days, like I've never like, honestly, I could not like, I don't know how I could write, like if I was a super talented writer, I couldn't have created that in my mind. Like absolutely incredible. And that's what I think. Again, you kind of talk about like, when you're going through it, let people actually help you guys because doing it alone is torture. Yeah, you can't do it alone. You can't, or you go back to the one person you love the most, which is the person that hurt you. Yeah. Or you, yeah, you think you can. Yeah. And then you end up, you know, it's just not healthy or you end up self medicating or doing my, my classic way of coping is isolation. Or sleeping and it's like, he kept bringing that up. Like she just sleeps all the time. And like, um, yeah, maybe you should look inward. That is your partner. Okay. Or depressed or like what's going on. Like maybe her dog just died. Right. Like be there for her. Get in bed. Yeah. Get in bed. Get in bed, bitch. Like what the fuck? Well, like that isn't that where sex happens? Right. You want sex about she's laying in bed all day. Get in the bed. I'm in the bed. She's in bed naked waiting, go in, talk to her emotionally, connect with her and then maybe right. Men are so dumb. Like what? That's right. Now that we say it, it sounds so she's in bed all day and you're bitching about not getting fucked. What, what, what are we missing here? I'm not in the place where it happens. Dude. Okay. Rumor on the street. Is there not single? Is this like a situation ship? Are we in a full relationship? Are we just fucking? Are we having, but what are we doing? What are we doing? Ariana? What's going on? I'm really, really enjoying myself. I am seeing someone, they live across the country in New York. So obviously, you know, it's kind of, there's that whole aspect to it. But I would say it's like really, really great. It's good. And you guys met where? We met at a wedding. When? Like literally 10 or 11 days after I found this out, which people are like, what? Like, are you okay? And I'm like, literally, I just met this person. Right. We did not start dating when I met them. Right. We just started talking. Right. And then we were talking and talking and talking and it progressed and it's. Right. You had a moment to grieve. You're grieving still, but you can also fucking go see people. And also it's like, right? Really nice. Like on, like, okay. So I met him at this wedding and all we did was talk. Like we stayed up all night just talking. Like that's it. That's all you wanted. Literally all I wanted. I was like quality time. What is this? And then he flew to where he lives and I flew to where I am. And then we just FaceTime and talked and talked. And it was just like, oh my gosh, like I'm getting to know this person and the conversations we were having were like so amazing. It's not like we were like, we met and we're dating, you know, but like it was really great. And now I've been able, I've been going to New York for work. And so when I go to New York for work, I've been getting to see him and it's like so nice. Having fun. That's what I think also people understand is like, there is nothing wrong with any timeline post something that traumatic happens. You have to do what feels right. And so people that are like, oh my God, it's so soon. Ariana, like, well, then you do you. If I was like a down on one knee proposing to this man, I would be like, then we'd be having intervention right now. We need to like reel it in. But like, you know, going, luckily for New York, being able to go every couple of weeks, this last, this just this last month and just work, see my friends, see him and like just really like love life. And honestly, like having someone that literally will be like, we'll be on the phone and he'll be like, you know, we're working, we're doing stuff. He's like, Hey, can we just get like five minutes? We were like, we just like have quality time on the phone. I'm like, are you kidding me? My dream in the past nine years. Literally. Don't sound like, okay, great. This is great. How? Okay. Give all the ladies advice of like nine years is a long motherfucking time. How do you not overthink it and allow yourself to be with someone that's not the person you've been with for nine years? It's like a little bit of a mind fuck to be like open to getting back out there. Open into anything. Yeah. Honestly, if you are overthinking it, be honest with yourself that you're overthinking it and just say like, I'm overthinking this or this is where I'm at. Be honest. I think that honesty and vulnerability to the sexiest things, I think in any person. And even if you're just like going out on a bunch of like casual dates with multiple people, be honest with those people. And if they're like not down for it, then they're not for you anyways. Yeah. And honestly, just like being honest with yourself too and saying like, this is where I'm at. This is what I'm ready for. This is what I'm not ready for. Because then the day that I met the sky, I literally said, this is what I can handle. I can handle us talking. I can handle you telling me I'm pretty. Um, I can maybe handle a smooch, but beyond that, that's that's it. And he was very enthusiastically like, okay, great. That sounds great. I just want to hang out. Right. So I was like, okay, cool. Like maybe like just be very clear about your boundaries and what you're okay with. It's like, you don't have to go in and be like, so I have to be a fully of it. It's like, hey. And honestly, accepting like, um, happiness and good things while you're healing, there's no like, no, nothing bad about that. There's nothing. People that are judging are also just like either you haven't been through it or like you went through it and you did something different that didn't work for you and try to judge like, let everyone do what they want to do. Because we're all different people and we all are in different situations. And again, like I said, someone does, we were saying that someone does something and shit like this to you. That door is slammed shut. It is way easier to grieve a relationship or that is that cut and dry. Yeah. Then it is one that isn't. I can't believe this. I just remembered you said his family didn't reach out to you. Has they have they still not reached out Tom? No, it's kind of weird. No. Yeah. I mean, I understand like what would they say? I guess I would just think they'd be like, Hey, this sucks. Like wishing you the best. Just that period. Just that like nine years. There was some respect. I thought yeah, not great. Okay, this is a fresh start. Yeah. And the beginning of a new era for you. What do you want for yourself? I want independence on like every level. I want to be able to be completely financially independent. I'm sure I got I don't have like a ton of tied things, but I want to be like financially independent and successful. I want to open my sandwich shop with Katie and have that be a total hit, which I think it will be. What street is it on? Robertson. Oh, I am there. Do you know how there's like no good sandwiches in LA? And you guys were so right. The only ones are like male. It's the fat. No, no, it's the fat cells. No, but it's like it's only fat cells or like Uncle Pauly. Exactly. That's just so right. Not the vibe. Right. We're going for it. Right. It's not that. Then what is it? And I get it. I love it. I love it. So you guys are opening. Yes. Fabulous. You're not you're not letting it like go to the wayside. Like this is still happening. Oh, yeah, absolutely. Good for you. Yeah. Okay, I'm very, I'm very excited about all of that. Yeah, I just want to be independent, independent and successful. I mean, all the things that I always wanted previously, but now it's like really nice to be able to do it on. And I want to be a solo homeowner. I want to own my own home with no one else on the deed. God bless you and you deserve it. Okay. Last two questions. Okay. What do you want everyone to know about you outside of the scandal? You're like, I had too much. Rose, leave me alone. Like, I love long walks on the beach. I like Rose and I want to go to the French country side. I love Beyonce. And I'm like, I'm like, okay, look, I just want people to know that like, I understand that reality TV is very over the top at times. And yes, of course, we love the drama. I love the drama. I mean, I'm a love Island stan as we know. But I just want people to know that like, again, like what you were saying, like on the other side of it, we are real people. Um, I'm, you know, kind of like a perpetually barefoot girl from Florida. You know, and I, I love my girls and I love my friends. And I just think that something I hope that all of this stuff brings is that we all just kind of like joined together because I just think that I love women. And I think we are the fucking best. And I just think that when we team up, like we are unstoppable. I am so happy you came today because I truly think like you are, you're so classy and you have such a head on your shoulders, even though in the midst of quite literally one of the biggest, most painful moments of your life. I'm so sorry this happened to you, but I do weirdly think. Thank God, Ariana. Thank God. Because you would have potentially been with him and not known. And it's like, you deserve so much fucking better. And you know what? Let him go do his thing. Sure. Let her go do her thing, whatever she's going through. Like everyone is meant to not be in whatever it just was. And you're amazing. And I can't wait to watch the reunion. Although it's like, do you have any fear of like people watching it? Like is there anything you want to preface before we turn on our TVs? I just hope I wasn't like too cut through. No, bitch, you could be. No, we want it. We want the drama. I think I go in. I don't know. I blacked out. I think everyone was like, Lala's going to destroy. And we hope Ariana's right underneath being like a little bit, you know, getting in there. Yeah, I'm excited. Cheers. Cheers. Thanks for having me.