How Our Hardest Season Made Us Stronger | Sadie Robertson Huff | Luke & Courtney Smallbone

My favorite part about when we first got married was we probably only been married for a few weeks. And I go into the kitchen and she's like, something's wrong with the dishwasher. There's bubbles coming out everywhere. And I was like, I open it up and I'm like, well, yeah, I mean, there's obviously something. What did you put in this? And she was like, I just put in the dish soap into the. It was we were. It was like bleeding. It was bleeding. suns all over everything. I mean, it was, you know, it seemed like that would have been the right thing to do. But I was like, we were children. That was hilarious. We were children raising each other at that point. We caught Dawn in the dishwasher. Dawn is so in the dishwasher. You knew that. I never knew that. That is hilarious. I didn't know. Learned together. You learned together. But the suns were so thick that the rubber seal on the dishwasher couldn't hold all of the bubbles. It overflowed out of the dishwasher? Yes, it was literally like bleeding out bubbles. That is so funny. It was terrifying for me at the moment. I would have totally done that though. I used dongers for everything. That is hilarious. We haven't told that story in a long time. What's up everybody? I hope you're having a great day. It is about to get so much better because we have some amazing guests all the way here in Monroe today. And I'm so excited for it. This is the second time for Luke, the first time for his wife, Courtney Smallbone, to be on the podcast. And we have a million things to talk about, honestly. But first, I just want to say welcome to the podcast and thank you all for coming all the way this way to stay at Hotel Monroe. I know we got to have a little bit of like a romantic getaway coming down here. We saw this on the schedule and I was like, honey, I think it's just you and I going down to Louisiana. And so anyway, I got a text from my brother, Josh, who actually runs our office. He's like, hey, by the way, like the hotel that got you staying is like real legit. He scouts everything. He just looks at everything. So we just felt so loved, so hosted, so like you guys have been so hospitable. And yeah, we just kind of showed up and it's been lovely. I love that. I love that. Well, we always want people to feel that way. And for some people who are listening to this and you came, you know, for a conference one year and you might have said it not so great of a hotel. I'm sorry. Monroe has a good side. It's not so good. But all of it is a fun experience. So we're glad that y'all have been having fun. Also, Courtney, can we talk about for a second the Bob life? This is really a podcast about how a haircut can change your life. I knew it. I knew it. Your post, though, like you had a little series of a post when you cut your hair. And I related to it so much because before I got my haircut, I was like, why is this such a big deal? Like, why is this such a big deal? I literally scheduled it twice and then canceled the appointment twice. You were scared? Yes. And then I was like, why is this so dramatic? And I was like annoyed at myself for it being so dramatic. But then when you posted that, I was like, wow, OK, I'm not the only person that this feels like, I don't know, bigger than just like a haircut. But can you share a little bit about that? Because that was really good. There's a lot attached to hair. So I mean, it was funny because I was like, babe, I was like, I tell him everything, all the thoughts. But I was like, this is what it feels like, like when you cut your hair, right? And it was like super long and more blonde, which is not my natural color. And so for a while, I had extensions, all this stuff. And I was like, I think I'm just tired of not looking like myself. or I don't know. It was like almost this like act of like there's a new season. So you actually need to look a different way. So there's this act of like, you know what? I'm going to cut off all my hair. This is like Joan of Arc vibe, you know? And you know what? Also, in many cultures, they would cut off their hair when they were done mourning, when they were marking new seasons. So I like studied that after the fact. I was like, I don't know. I just feel like we just need to like take it off. But it's really true. You can, a lot of women that I've talked to since that, like, I don't know if I could do that. Like, I feel like, would I be beautiful? Like, there's so much around it. There's emotions around it and like beauty. And I was like, wow, didn't know. At least we know that Samson can relate. Yeah. Like, he went through some things. He went through some things. That's a whole different story. We're going a different route. I was like, no. He has some stuff going on. No, that's actually so true, though. So like I felt like because in the past I changed my hair whenever seasons were getting a little crazy and I wanted to control something. That's right. And then I was like, this time it's not like that. Like I'm actually really healthy. And so I was like, OK, I'm making a dramatic. It was like long. She had long hair like me. It was very similar. Yeah. And so anyways, it was just really cool to see you do that. And then your post, I was like, man, you're putting some words to kind of what I was feeling. So, yeah, it was cool. And you look amazing. I love the bob. I love your bob. I love it too. I love the change. It was cool. See, that's sweet. That's a good husband right there. Supporting the haircut. He was more all in maybe than me. Like he was like, I think this is my favorite. That's how Christian was. Yeah. Isn't that strange? I was like, oh, who was I before? I know. I was like, why didn't I do this? There's so many new thoughts. I love that. Okay. The other thing that I want to chit chat about before we dive into the deep end is you guys are like homeschooling, homestead. Like this is, this is what everyone's inspired by these days. You know, I feel like once you go down that path, if you start following people on that path, then your whole social media is that. And it's very inspiring. I'm not there yet. My brother and sister-in-law are, and they're our neighbors. So I feel like I'm kind of tied to the connection. I get some eggs out of the situation, some honey from the bees. I feel like I'm placed in high favor because I'm beside someone who's locked in. But I need to get locked in, too. So tell me about how that whole journey started for y'all. Yeah, well, it was quite a number of years ago. I mean, what, we've been, where we've been living now, it's been coming up on 11 years. So we live just south of Nashville. And life was extremely busy. And I just had been really, really sick. And honestly, what you guys are talking about with the hair, the move kind of represented in some cases, we need to change up life a little bit. And so we were, I was coming back from the road and had these people like neighbors like, so happy to have you home and i was like i i appreciate that and i can't i think i came into the house one day i was like honey i can't do this anymore because we're going from so many people to more people more people and like how was your trip and it was just kind of so anyway we were like well let's move to the country and when we moved to the country this old it's a it's an old 1840s farmhouse and we were just we had young kids i think jude was two and a half phoenix was six months old. And we just kind of realized that we wanted to blow up life and get outside. And, you know, obviously I love, I love like mowing and I love doing, I love weed eating. I grew up doing that, you know, kind of when I was a kid and I just needed to feel like Courtney used to say, and this is not for everybody. So I'm just going to qualify this, but she used to say, I want to walk out the back porch. I want to look to my left. I want to look to my right. And I don't want to see anybody. I love people, but like not in the morning. Hey, that's fair. So then we had some friends that kind of mentored us that were older, you know, in their 50s. And they were like, hey, we got into cows. You've got young kids. Maybe you guys could get into cows. And so anyway, we had bought some land. And I don't know why we even bought the land at some level. I just loved land. And I was like, honey, I think that we should put cows on the – and she's like, did you grow up doing cows? No. Don't know anything about it. Don't know how to do it. Don't know it. And so anyway, our friend of ours, he was like, hey, here's a deal with cows. You just basically have to have really good fencing. You have to feed them and they have to have water and you just observe them. Wow. And so for whatever reason, for whatever reason, it has become extremely therapeutic. I've often thought that, you know, obviously we live lifestyles that can be a little intense at times. And people like, oh, when you come back off the road, you must be exhausted. And I'm like, physically, you're basically fine within 24 to 48 hours. It's the emotional stuff that is the draining stuff. And I've often said that for whatever reason, when I come home, and she'll see this sometimes, I go out and I get on the tractor, I get on the skid steer, and I go feed the animals. And I might take a little bit longer than really the task needs. And that's just for whatever reason, it's life-giving to me. So we are pretty, when it comes to homestead, we've got chickens, we've got cows, we've got dogs. And we used to have bees. I killed all the bees. well actually our neighbor someone sprayed some toxic stuff and it killed actually all the neighboring bees rest in peace so anyway so it's always been a little bit of a it happens it happens it's been a little bit of a a process and i think there's a lot of people because on on instagram and things you get into homesteading it's like well i'm not homesteading as good as that person yeah and the truth is is there's people that that are going to scale this thing up we have found a rhythm yeah that works for us and i think if there was other people that were interested in doing these types of things. It's like, you know, for you guys, it might not want to be getting into bees, cows, chickens, pigs, and like, you know, turkey, like people go crazy with it, right? But if you want to, you know, dabble in it, there's just a few sometimes steps that you can take. And that was kind of our process. That's super cool. I love that. Well, it's very inspiring. And I feel similar in that we love when we come back, like, I lived in Nashville for a little while and like in Nashville, and that was really hard for me, because I felt like there was never an off moment too. Like I would go get coffee and it's like people on their bachelorette trip and they're like, Sadie, and I'm like, hi. But I'm also like trying to just get coffee and I love meeting people. And that was the thing about it. I actually love meeting people and talking to people. But at that point it was so much that I was starting to like be overwhelmed by that and not enjoy it. And I'm like, this is not who I am. Like I like this, you know, and I feel like y'all probably feel the same way. I love people as well. But what I've realized is for me to love people best is for me to be able to take some retreats. Because the truth is, once I retreat a little bit and I get my soul in order, I can actually love people the way they deserve to be loved. And so I felt the same thing. Like, it's not that I don't like you. And you feel this conviction. But it's actually that you've got to take care of your soul. You know what I mean? If you take care of your soul, you can be a great, you know, in my situation, husband. But you can be a great spouse. You can have room to be a good parent. You can have room to be a good business leader, a good friend. But when your soul is empty, you start sucking at all of it. So true. And that's not what we really want to be in life. That's actually so true. It makes me think of like, love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul, mind, strength. Love your neighbor as yourself. But it comes after loving God. And I think that's so real because once I moved back here, I was just like, oh, I can breathe. You know, and then when I go out anywhere, even just locally in town, like I feel like, oh, like my soul is revived. Like it's good because I live like my home is at peace, you know. And so I feel that I love that. That's really good advice, even for people who might not be able to move or you might not get the haircut. There's little things that you can do. You know, I always love this quote. It said, take two minute vacations. And I'm like, that's good. Like sometimes you only have two minutes. Sometimes you have two hours. Sometimes you have two days. but like take those moments to like revive your soul um so good guys hey fam i want to talk to you about an organization that is close to my heart and that's pre-born there are so many women who find themselves unexpectedly pregnant and completely overwhelmed fear sets in fast and too often they feel like they are out of options that was the case for a woman named evie after being told that she couldn't get pregnant she was shocked to find out that she was and fear led her down a path that left her carrying grief no one had prepared her for. Later when Evie reached out to a pre-born clinic everything changed. She didn't find judgment. She actually found compassion, truth, and hope and when she became pregnant again she went back to the clinic. Seeing her baby on an ultrasound and hearing that tiny heartbeat changed everything. Her daughter is alive today because someone was there at exactly the right moment. I remember the First time I heard my baby's heartbeat in that moment is like the moment it sunk in, like, wow, I am pregnant. And that's when it just gets so real. So here's what really stuck out to me. For just $28, you can actually provide a life-saving ultrasound and so much more because this is the moment that it's going to help women sink in. Wow, this is happening, and they're going to have help around them. Pre-Born also shares the hope of the gospel, offers counseling, and meets real physical needs like diapers, maternity clothes, and car seats, all completely free to these moms. So they're not just giving you an ultrasound. They're really coming around you as a mother. 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All gifts are tax deductible. help save lives support moms in the most life-changing moments preborn.com slash sadie okay let's get into how y'all met because the meeting of you two is quite a funny story so how when's the first time you laid eyes on courtney so um i was i had bought some shoes uh from journey's shoe store in the mall i don't know if they have the you know down here in monroe or not yes conland mall okay see yes you have journeys shout out and so i bought some shoes and for whatever reason i mean you gotta understand in my early 20s i was fundamentally broke and i had spent like i went out and was like i got a hundred dollar shoes you know and i got nice shoes and within a week i kid you not the heel had just like popped off they were like diesel shoes what were you doing in these yeah and so anyway i was like you know i had this like poor man's wrath you know i was like i'm going to deal with the people at Journeys for selling me bad shoes. That's actually true. And so anyway, I walk into the store and Courtney didn't sell me the shoes, but Courtney was behind the counter in this situation. Yeah. And so I went in and I knew of her family from church, but we had never really, we'd seen each other maybe one other time, but we didn't really have a conversation. Our dads did love each other. And our dads loved each other, knew each other. So anyway, my pickup line was because, you know, Courtney's this beautiful girl. She's behind the counter. And I literally her maiden name is Helm. And I just I just went up to her and was like, oh, you're a Helm, huh? And that's what I led with. That's what I led with. It was so and she was like, oh, you must you must be a small bone, which sounds particularly derogatory in return. And so anyway, we had this great conversation for like 20 minutes. She obviously couldn't help me with my shoes, you know, because I don't know why I thought this. But like once you walk out with the shoes, you're not coming back with the shoes and they're exchanging new shoes. You know, I kind of forgot that policy. But we had a wonderful conversation. And so as I'm leaving, I literally knock off like over a shoe display of shoes. I mean, that was a disaster. I didn't fall. He was walking backwards talking to me, which is like really cute. Like, so Rom called me. He's like, yeah, so maybe I'll see you around. And then I was like, oh, gosh. But I thought it also was cute. Like, I was like. Yeah. So anyway, I kind of biffed it. You know, this is hope for all the men out there who the first encounters don't go well. And honestly, they usually don't go as you plan, to be honest. And that's part of what makes your story. Fast forward a week. I used to help run lights at our church. And so I was volunteering and she came up and was like, hey, I'm so sorry. We couldn't help you with your shoes. But I just thought I would buy you some shoes. And so she hands me the I was so flustered because I didn want to Because I was like I don want him to think I like desperate and like want attention Because I was not in that phase of my life I was like it me and God I don't want anyone. She was 19. Yeah. And like I moved to Nashville. I'm like, I will not date anyone in the music industry. And then he was in music. I'm like, bleh. Like you were not my type. And then I was like, he's really kind. Like I got to talk to him and then I felt bad for judging him. I was like, you have a really golden heart. And she's like, and he lives in poverty. So I need to help him with some shoes. I need to invest in his ministry. Actually, I was like, oh, you're a really good person. So her point, she comes up, she gives me the shoes. And so you're kind of thinking as a man, maybe this is the moment she lingers. And she walks away. Oh, you just dropped the shoes. I left in a hurry. The conversation probably lost a minute 30. Oh, my God. I was very anxious. I was just here. I'm so sorry. You're so nice. Bless you in your ministry. I hope this helps you. Bye. like i just didn't she did i was so awkward i get home uh with the shoes and where our kind of love story you know bloomed and blossomed from there was the shoes were the wrong size and so this is straight up cinderella backwards oh my gosh the shoe fits and like oh that's like he couldn't afford the shoes so it's like it's like backwards cinderella did you just watch this movie recently Actually, yes, I did because Heyman loves it. Wow, I'm in the right mind. You haven't ever thought about this? I've never thought about that. We told this story. It's a Cinderella story backwards. She's been a very vital part of our relationship. Hey, this is so sweet. Okay, so how did it end up sparking? So then when I got back to the house, I realized they were the wrong size. And so I didn't know what else to do other than Facebook her, which was pretty new at the time. And so I Facebooked and I was like, hey, thank you so much. I mean, I think I've still got those letters. He printed them out. Yeah, I printed them out for like a dating gift at one point. And I burnt the edges, which was hard, by the way. And it's funny actually to do that because you look back on how you write and you're like, wow, I was definitely behaving in a way that isn't – this is my best behavior. You're really thinking about what you're typing. So anyway, I Facebooked her and she said, well, this is when I work. And then I went back in. We exchanged the shoes. And then she was helping out or so I was helping out with a youth ministry. And then she had been helping out a little bit with it as well. And so I was like, well, why don't we get, you know, kind of help out, do that together a little bit. And we were really good friends for about six months. I went to Australia during that time. And we just once again wrote kind of emails back and forth, kind of wrote letters, honestly. We didn't talk, I don't think, like on the phone while I was in Australia. No, we were kind of like keeping it under wraps because it was like a friendship. But like both of our families, they're both strong. They would be very like, what's going on? And it just was like, you know, just friendship. So speaking of Cinderella, now that you say this, when I landed back into America, the pastor of the church's daughter was getting married and our family was invited to go. And mom and dad were like, well, Luke, you know, if you want to come to the wedding, you know, you guys are all invited. And I was like, yo, I'm going to go. And they were a little like, why is Luke wanting to come to this wedding? you know and uh and i thought i think corny will be there oh that's anyway but hold it hold it this is what's really is truly sweet now that i'm you're getting the elongated version that's why podcasts are the best you get the whole story we go to the wedding and we see each other we got mutual friends there where we hang out a little bit and then the dance floor opens up all right and we danced literally i think we were the last couple on the dance floor and there was a i think the pastor whose daughter was getting married actually said pretty sure luke and courtney are having more fun than the bride and groom the bride and groom sat down and started watching us at that point it was pretty like and then y'all weren't like really dating we weren't dating no and so like my brother i had another brother that was there daniel and he was like called me i think on the way home and he was like what just happened there what was that a lot of everyone was like what is happening what is happening my dad took a video on it on his phone yeah he took a bit because he's like, something is happening. Isn't that cute? All in a dance floor. Wait, that is so cute. And that is so Cinderella. This is amazing. I've never heard anybody else say it. And I've never even thought it. Never connected that. That's really good. I love that so much. Y'all's story is so sweet. And it's really cool because so many girls say that part of the story. And I had a similar story where it's like, you know, it's me and the Lord. I'm not going to date. And then like he walks right into the shoe store and like this is what happens. Your journey at that point was interesting around 19 because you came from a Christian family. You knew God your whole life, but that was maybe right after a time you were questioning your faith. Can you share a little bit about what that looked like for you? Yeah, so I'm a third generation pastor's kid. And so I've grown up in the church and there's such beauty to that. But you hit these points in your own life, your own walk. And so we were part of an amazing church in Florida and I was on staff for a while and I just hit this crisis of faith. Like, what do I actually believe? about God. And like, God didn't feel personal to me. I was like, man, is he like a business guy that like, I have to sit down, I have to make an appointment. Like, are you with me? Like, I had these questions, like, are you with me brushing my teeth? Like, I want to be intimate with you. Like, I want to know you. And until that, I'm out. Like, I'm such an all-in person that I was like, until I know you, I'm done. Like, so I was a self-professed like atheist. I literally was like, I don't want what other people are telling me. I don't want any of this. I want to know you. So that took me through a really hard season of a lot of darkness, which was a gift. And that's when I actually was diagnosed with a rare disease. And not saying that God caused it, but he allowed it for formation to happen in my life. And what I knew about him after that happened was you are who you say you are and you do what you say you will do. You can have my life like I'm all in. Wow. Because before that, you know, I was kind of like playing, playing a game like it's performance. And then I couldn't perform anymore. I was like, this will kill me, which I think that's what religion is like that kills you. I mean, religion killed Jesus. So I think this crisis was not as horrible as I felt maybe in the time, like some shame and stuff. I think it's just very like, do you want the real thing? And so after that point, I was like, you've got me. I'm all in. I believe it, not because of anyone else. And it became mine. And so after that point, I just, well, I was recovering from really horrible disease. So I was really weak. and I had worked in ministry my whole life. And then I walked by journeys and God was like, I want you to work here for a few months. And I'm like, why? Like, I've never done this before. Right. But I was healing and trying to get into like some kind of rhythm of life again. And I thought, oh, it's just me and him. Like it's me and God. And like, I just, I have a lot of maybe time to make up too with God. And then, you know, Luke came in. yep stumbled his way in truly are you a helm yeah but yeah so that was a bit of my like precursor to that time was this like uh man just a valley or just even like this deep desert season and you can feel so vulnerable and sensitive after that yeah so i was very like vulnerable after that yeah this episode of what that's good is brought to you by wild grain and if your goal this year is making easier meals that feel special then this is a win for you wild grain is the first bake from frozen subscription box for amazing goodies like sourdough breads artisan pastries and fresh pasta y'all this is amazing and everything bakes in 25 minutes or less which honestly feels like a lifesaver on busy nights. 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I highly recommend giving Wild Grain a try. Right now wild grain is offering our listeners 30 off your first box plus get this free croissants for life when you go to wildgrain.com and use the code woe to start your subscription today that's 30 off your first box and free croissants for life when you visit wildgrain.com slash woe or you can use the promo code woe at checkout i think it's so cool to share that side of your story because people look at y'all and a lot of people know your story and they hear you say, you know, you're a pastor's kid and grew up in church and it can be easy to be like, oh, match made in heaven. This all worked out great, easy. And it's like, no, there's so many layers and so much depth to y'all's story. And I think it's cool too, just for so many people listening who have grown up in the church or even parents are pastors to go, it's okay to ask God those questions for yourself. And like you, your faith has to become personal. It has to become your own for it to be real and to have a true foundation. And so even though that's like scary water to step in, it's like you have to be willing to step there so that you can meet God there too. And so I think it's so cool that you share your story. Y'all have this new song out, Ever and Ever Before. And that's one of those songs. It's like, it's so good. I'm listening to it. I'm like, this is amazing. But there's like layers to the words that y'all are singing. Knowing y'all's story, I'm like, wow, this is so cool knowing the context because y'all had this like Cinderella story, you're dancing on the dance floor, everything's magic. Everyone's taking pictures like this is amazing. But y'all had some really tough first couple of years of marriage. Like y'all have said it. We lived out our vows in our early twenties. Not a lot of people have to walk through that. So take us to y'all getting married and the first couple of years. Yeah. So we got married. We had in some cases, yeah, that wonderful beginning. But in some cases when most people don't really know this, but as soon as I really started actively in music, life got particularly complex and it got complex and it got really, really difficult. And circumstantially, our life got really, really tough. Pretty soon after we were married, we were married in 2010. In 2012, which was when Jude was born, a few months prior to when he was born, I kind of got diagnosed with an autoimmune disease and at some levels probably ignored some of the symptoms and some of the things that were going on. And I got to a point where I got really, really sick. I actually had to come off the road for about three months and I got down to about 125 pounds and I'm six foot four. And so I was probably about 40 to 50 pounds under what they what just your base level weight should be. And it got scary there for quite a while. And so, yeah, so I got a newborn baby. We do. He's six months old. I'm so weak that I can't even hold him. And you're sitting there like, wow, is this the fairy tale? And then it got so scary to where it got to, well, am I going to be able to like hang on and actually live? And are we going to be able to live through this? And so, um, there was one particular night where, and you know, marriage has this unique way and it's a real, an amazing thing that God gives you is, is it's a, it's a reflection period of who you are. And the truth is, is you get married and you have all of these hopes and dreams for your life, but it's not until you really get into it that you start to see like, wow, I've got like wounds and things that I never really thought that I had. And not because she's necessarily saying, look at the wound in your life, but because of the way that you live your life, you go. And I think I had gotten to a point where I was trying to work so hard, trying to be so diligent with what God had given us and what we were trying to steward that I'll never forget coming back off of a tour once. And I said to Courtney, I sat on a couch and I said, is it okay that I'm just sitting down? And she was like, what do you mean? I was like, well, I don't really, I don't think I have anything to do right now. I probably should be doing something. And I remember she just kind of said, like, just listen to yourself. That sounds a little insane, right? And that's what drove me into, you know, getting very, very sick. You know, a few years after that, we had a scenario where we nearly lost our son, Leo. He was two months old and, you know, he was asleep in the bed and Courtney, you know, felt this. Hey, he's taking a nap. Go check on him. Go check on him. He's got blood coming out of his nose and he's not breathing. You know, we go out to, you know, I was mowing the lawn. She screams, you know, call 911, call 911. We have him on our driveway. I still remember the spot where he was. And he's not breathing. And she just starts praying these amazing prayers over him, you know, basically demanding. I've never heard anyone pray like it. Demanding that God brings him back. and and you know um he at some point takes a a gulp of air i called the ambulance during this time and they were like we'll be there in five minutes and you're like well that's not gonna that's not gonna work uh just soon after that he starts breathing again and so we go to hospital we get to we live in a small town similar to to munro and they were like you've got to go to the bigger town so we went to vanderbilt hospital and while we were in the er there they were like hey do you realize what he's got going on with his head. And we're like, no. And they said, well, he's got something called craniosynostosis, which is when your child's head fuses shut. And they're like, he's so small that we can't do the surgery now, but at six months, he's going to have to have a skull reconstruction surgery. And, you know, so in some cases you're like, the hits keep on coming. And so we walked through that process together. And, you know, there's obviously there's more and more stories inside of that. And so there was about 10 years, you know, just even a few years ago, I had to have vocal surgery, you know, I couldn't speak for however long. And, you know, there's been things. But speaking to marriage, you know, I don't know too many. There's other people that have these stories, right? You know, suffering will find you in life. It's guaranteed. But I will say what we've built in our marriage is we've built marriage equity. And sometimes you got to spend it. And I think when you get into the hard things like this and you're like, hey, I'm still here. I mean, I was when I was sick, it wasn't pretty. This is ugly stuff. The disease I had is disgusting. It's not fun. She never left. You know, you go through that nurse taking your child to go do a surgery that they're saying he's going to be in hospital for recovery for a week to 10 days and we don't, you know, should be okay, but, um, and you're, you're, you know, walking out and there's the, the collapse for both of us of like, did we just make the right decision? You know, all these things, you get to the other side of that. And, um, there's like, we lived out our we had the gift of living out our vows in our twenties And you know in some cases we sit here today um getting to reflect on to reflect on that and laugh about some stories but then actually look at the goodness of who Jesus is Because sometimes the greatest way God can love you is actually by allowing you to go through some struggle. We are repulsed by the idea of pain and suffering in this world. But the greatest things, the greatest stories I ever read in the Bible, I hear where they went through some significant struggle and struggle produces something in people's life. It produces character, it produces perseverance, and it ends up with hope. If you want hope, you're probably going to actually have to walk through some struggle because hope in the Greek, actually, you can translate it to certainty. So if struggle produces perseverance, perseverance, character, character, hope, you have to go through some struggle for it to produce certainty in your life. That is good. It makes me think of your prayer of like, God, I want to know you personally. And then you said God didn't give you that, but he allowed that. And then on the outcome of it, you knew him personally. And so that's so real. If you want hope, if you want to know God personally, sometimes that does come with struggle, but you don't have to, don't make that. I think some people will hear that and go, okay, well then I'm not going to pray for that. Like, I don't want that. But it's like, no, because you come out stronger. You come out with certainty. I think God uses everyone's different circumstances different ways, right? Some people don't have this story, but their love for Jesus is radical. It doesn't always go that way. But what I will say is, another scripture even is talking about Courtney's story, which is work out your faith with fear and trembling. Fearing trembling doesn't necessarily always mean a deathly disease. That's right. But it does mean that you have to work it out. You have to get to a desperation point. And you have to get to a point of going, I'm sinful. I need someone in my life that can triumph over sin. That's when reliance and faith is produced. And at the end of the day, what I think God wants the most from us, he wants faithfulness. He wants to say, how do you feel the most loved by your children? When you tell them to do something and they go, aye, aye, captain. Yeah, you're like, this is amazing. I'm an incredible parent. But that's what you feel really loved. I think it's similar with God. When we hear something from God and we're like, this feels risky, this feels whatever, but I'm going to go do this because it produces something significant in our lives. Great. I just read through, for anyone doing the Bible recap out there, we just got through Job. And I loved that Terri Lee Cobble was kind of giving some advice in the midst of it. And she was like, I always tell people, you can quit before you start reading Job, or you can quit, or you have to finish it. You can't quit in the middle. You have to finish it. And I was like, man, that's so real. Because in the middle, you're like, oh, this is like another conversation, another bad thing, another whatever. And then you get to the end and it's like, what does Job know? He knows that like God is real. He knows his Redeemer lives like he knows like him so personally. And it's not even just about that God gave back. It was about like him knowing God. And it really was like so cool that she said that in that middle part, because I remember thinking like, OK, this is like rough. But then you have to get to the end. And it's such a struggle and a wrestle. But at the end, it comes into like, I know him personally, and I'm not going to question you anymore. Whenever God comes to Job and he's like, you want to keep questioning me? Like, were you there when the universe was created? Were you there? You know, it's like so sassy. It's the most amazing mic drop. It's a mic drop. I love it. You're right. It is a mic drop. It's so good. Thank you for sharing that, all of that. Y'all's story is so, so wild and it's so beautiful that you share because it gives hope to so many people. One thing I heard y'all say in an interview you did one time was your marriage counseling before you got married. Y'all discovered something about your relationship that was a blessing. Do you know what I'm talking about? And can y'all speak to that? It was kind of the idea that y'all were able to resolve conflict. And I think that that's actually really cool to look back. Was it our high scores? Your high scores. Your high scores. because I do think that a lot of people are afraid to like argue. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And like they think, oh, if I'm arguing, it's bad. But I think like what y'all were talking about. Conflict resolution? Conflict resolution. Yes. Because I think that that's a really cool thing that y'all noted before you even got married. Yeah. And then when you stepped into marriage, y'all didn't know everything that you were going to walk through. But like, praise God, you already had a steady, like strong relationship going in that was willing to kind of talk about the hard stuff. winter mornings move slower in our house it's darker colder and honestly a little harder to just get yourself going for the day and so i've tried to be intentional about leaning into small grounding habits and ag1 is one of those for us ag1 next gen is a daily health drink with more than 75 ingredients including vitamins minerals probiotics and superfoods basically all the things that help fill common nutrient gaps in adults while supporting gut health all without juggling a bunch of supplements. It's great to start your morning off with AG1. It's just one scoop in cold water and it feels like I am setting a solid foundation for a busy day. It's not about doing everything perfectly. It's about having one simple habit that you can go back to no matter how crazy your day gets. AG1 fits into your real life, whether your mornings are calm or chaotic. When routines shift and schedules aren't predictable, AG1 is there. And even whenever I'm traveling, AG1 makes it so simple for me with travel packs. AG1 really is awesome. It's so well-rounded. for me I love that I don't have to have a bunch of different supplements because it's just one thing that helps everything not only does it help with my energy and brain fog but also gut health which I'm big on I definitely notice a huge difference when my gut is healthy so if you want a simple way to support your health this winter AG1 makes it easy visit drinkag1.com slash woe to get three AG1 travel packs three AGZ travel packs and vitamin d3 plus k2 free in your welcome kit with your first subscription order. Again, that's drinkag1.com slash woe. Yeah, I mean, communication, I think that's what came up the most was our communication level. And that's so crazy because that's, I mean, we were almost married now 16 years, so we've got communication. But like, but that's so important because a lot of people forget the basic things. They actually don't do the foundational things, whether that's in their health or their lives or their marriages. And they're like, but I want that, but I don't want to have to really do anything to get there. And so that doesn't work. Like the water is the grass is greener where you water it. So same with marriage is like, if I want to feel connected to you, I have to do something to go to Monroe and stay at the hotel. If someone has to do it, Lord, send me. But it's like communication is so bedrock. So that means like when you're talking about conflict, you know, resolving that you actually have to say the hard thing. Yep. You have to say the true thing. And the only way to do that is to be like, hey, when you did that, that hurt me because of this. But I know it's not fully you, but I have this wound, this like little Courtney wound. And when you did that, this is what happened. And I know that's scary. It doesn't feel good at first, but on the other side, it's whole and there's healing. But you have to let your spouse, who is the sacred place, this is the holiest of holies, come close to you and show them your wounds. And God has a way of using your spouse to come in, sometimes with a little scalpel, sometimes with an alcohol pad, you know what I'm saying? To like clean up the pus and all this stuff. And you have to be surrendered. You also have to have zero pride. Like you can't puff yourself up. You have to be like flat as a pancake to be like, I feel ridiculous for even saying this. Because there's been so many times where I'm like, babe, I know I sound ridiculous, but I feel insecure about boom, boom, boom. What happens when we bring things to the light? Like it says, confess your sins to one another and be healed. We just talked about this last night. Something about saying the truth in safe places. and that's that is the same for marriage that's the same in in deep relationships in your counseling relationships it's just saying saying those things in a safe place has a way of being able to complete it you know where we get stuck we get stuck in woundedness we get stuck in our own narratives and my goodness when you get married he has a narrative and I have a narrative he has a family culture I have a family culture God's hilarious and he's like and you guys are going to become you are one, but you're going to become even more one. And how do you do that? I really believe it's through that. It's through resolving conflict that breeds intimacy. Because think about it. I feel closer to you when we go through that. I feel closer to a best friend when I'm like, hey, whoa, can I just be? And then there's like this, oh, I didn't mean to hurt you. And then you're like, oh, you're stronger that way. It's like the opposite of what your flesh wants to do. Your flesh is like, run, hide, put up a wall, wall of China, self-protect, self-protect, which I would be like, my gosh, definitely I was the self-protective prototype. And now I'm like, I'm just like. Because you see the beauty on the other side now. It's like you trust the process now. And Christian and I have just been talking about that because we're not quite as far along as y'all are, but about seven years in. And we're like. How many kids do you guys have now? We have three. Three. Yes, we have four and a half, two and a half, five and a half. So all tears apart. It's so sweet, so wild and so sweet, as you guys know. But we were talking about just like what we've been through in the past seven years and kind of got thrown into the fire and a lot of things and had a lot of hard conversations and probably more counseling than a lot of young people do and all the different stuff. but we were looking at each other the other night and we were like wow like look at how far we've come and like what where our relationship is at and we were like we didn't even expect to see this much um I guess like fruit you could say yeah this soon like we thought all this hard work we'll see one day like we knew that but how sweet that we're already seeing it and like the people that we are now we're like so proud of because we're like wow we really worked to get here we We really worked hard to get here. And I'm like so thankful for that. And so, yeah, you trust the process now. And now it doesn't feel so scary to open up and say things. And you know it might burn. You know it might hurt a little bit. But you're like, I know it's going to make it better. And even like, this is funny, but the haircut thing, I know I'm going back to the Bob. But even that, like to have a spouse where it's like you have such open communication that you can say those things. And I remember at one point in the journey of it, I was like, can I just be honest? I'm like, I think it's because I'm scared I'm going to be insecure. Like, I'm scared if I don't, if I don't like it, then I'm going to be insecure about the way I look. And I don't want to feel insecure. Even like little stuff like that, that you can talk to with your spouse and say, I'm just going to confess that. And I don't want to feel that way, but that's just the truth. And then they can speak truth over you. And it's just like a beautiful gift to have someone that you can be totally honest with and confess. That's not going to meet you with shame. You know, there is therefore no condemnation for those who are found in Christ Jesus. So when someone understands that and goes, okay, I'm going to offer you grace, but also truth. I have a sweet truth of your life. It's an amazing gift. So I love that you shared that. OK, we're going back into the deep end because you said once things are brought into the light, obviously it's exposed and freedom comes. You talk about how your life got thrown into the light at one point of your life with anxiety and overcoming addiction and stuff. And I love how you share this part of your life because you were saying in the interview that I saw you were like, there are so many like miracle stories that I have. I wish that could just be the thing everyone knew about me, but God's going to use this. And that seems to be the case oftentimes. Can you talk about that a little bit? Yeah, it's actually funny because that's like the first story that hits like a literal news headline is like your deepest shame and your sin. That was me too. Fun times, right? So fun. But God is so good. He's so trustworthy. and so that story um i call it the burn the ship story because he wrote a song ending up about that season in my life that became an album i didn't even realize it was you know that no because i remember getting the pr from burn the ships and i had like a moment i literally went out had a moment and burnt the ship like i physically put the match on the ship so that's crazy wow that was birthed out of my story. Wow. Yeah. So in that season, obviously had a rare disease and healed, right? But I had emotional issues. I had trauma. I had panic attacks. Like my nervous system was broken too. And I didn't know what to do with it. There weren't like conversations at that time too. That was like, gosh, 2007. So like this, this wasn't like a conversation. And so I just felt like I had to deal with it. And I felt shame for that. And I just kept trucking on and thinking it would go away. It doesn't go away. We get married. Oh, I would get up in the middle of the night and pace. And I would just, oh gosh, just overcome with anxiety. And then like torment started coming in because it's mind, body and spirit. And so at that time, like he got super sick, that re-triggered me because it was my deepest pain that I hadn't dealt with yet. And now my husband, I was so mad. I was so mad at God. I was like, how dare you? Like, yeah, I remember being in our bathroom being like, God, I was 18 and like, I got a rare disease and I felt like that was enough. That was enough suffering in my head. But no, we're going to add on the person you actually love more than yourself. And I was so triggered by it. And I was taking care of him too. So like I was a nurse doing all kinds of things and injections and all the things. And so that re-triggered me because even the smell of an alcohol swab, when you're that like PTSD, it was just like an open wound. I was bleeding out like emotionally, my spirit, just everything. And I get pregnant with Jude and you add that on. So I'm like a new mom. I don't know what I'm doing. I'm taking care of you. So I'm not really like I'm connected, but I'm not, I'm not that connected because I'm scared. Like I didn't know what I was doing. So just like, let's keep on some more pressure and trauma. And then, you know, for King and Country's taking off, boom, you're just like, gosh, it's just so much. And then after that, he starts to get a bit better. I know he went back out on tour. I get pregnant again with Phoenix and I get horrible morning sickness. Like this is the straw that broke the camel's back. And so I'm pregnant with Phoenix and I, I will never forget that feeling of being like, I am utterly broken. Like I'm scared. I don't know what to do. But when I got pregnant with him, I was taking these pills to help with the nausea and everything. And sometimes this prescription can bother your serotonin levels. It can kind of make you a little crazy. Like, like if you already have anxiety issues and all this other, or even slight depression, it will amplify that. And I didn't know that, but I was taking it. So I would take it to calm down. And then I would take more because it was like my only thing. It felt it was my strong tower. It was my safety because I didn't feel safe. I didn't feel safe in my body. I didn't feel safe with you at that time because I was the caretaker. I didn't feel safe in the environments we were in. Oh my gosh, we'd be in arenas. And I'm like, oh my gosh, like get me out of here. Like just too much for the census. Go to the mall, leave grocery stores. Anyone who's left a grocery cart at a grocery store because of your nervous system been there And so I start taking more and more medicine and the midwives don they don really know Like they not fully aware They just like yeah And I was abusing it I mean, I was abusing other things to calm me down too, but I was so not connected to myself that I didn't think it was wrong. I was surviving. And so I was trying, I was trying to keep myself safe. And so there was a breaking point where I was like, I can't do this anymore. Like I was, I was starting to feel suicidal. I felt tormented, like literally tormented. Like the spirit of fear is a real spirit and it wants to take you out. And it was, it was real close. It was right there. And I couldn't, it's like, I don't know what else to do. Like this is like fighting for my life. And so, um, I tried to get off the pills by myself and that was awful because you know you have like you're shaking and anyone who's like detoxed from something like that and Luke was in he was at a show in Texas and I called and I actually said hey I'm not okay he didn't know fully I was doing that with pills like I was I was yeah it was all me and I told him everything I said hey I've been doing this I need help I I can't do this by myself. I'm scared. I feel suicidal. I think I've never asked you to come home. I said, I need you to come home. And so I actually called one of my good friends, mentor. She was a counselor, and I asked her opinion on what to do. And she knew of a rehab, a local rehab. And Luke came home. And that was one of the most humbling experiences. I had like, you know, I'm so pregnant with our second child at this point with Phoenix and like we're walking into the rehab center and you're like this is the bottom like this I've I've found the basement level and you know you give them your keys and everything and you're just like okay but at this point you're so broken that you're like you just need help and it was huge because I didn't ask for help up until that point in my life I just never did. I remember whenever we started low and I had all the what ifs. What if I fail? What if it isn't where I need to be? And looking back, I can see so clearly that God had his hand in the whole thing. Starting something new is exciting, but it's also very scary. And that's why I'm thankful for Shopify. Shopify is the commerce platform behind millions of businesses around the world and 10% of all e-commerce in the U.S. from massive brands to tiny startups. 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Whoa. and I knew that was there was something there of like you just think you got to take it on and shove it down and keep going and I was really good at that like I would probably pride myself in that like I can just keep going and then but you know what God didn't ask that of me yeah and I and when I went into rehab I found God's heart and there were so many other believers there who felt shame for other things that they were there for. And I feel like God's heart was not for me to stay in line and to keep on heaviness. It was like, let him close to your broken heart. Why are you doing what you're doing? Because it's never about addiction. It's about longing. What are you doing with your longing? What are you doing with it? I was longing for safety. And so that was my thing. Other people have other longings and they're filling it through pornography, through gambling, through an eating disorder. It's all the same root. And so it was actually one of the most freeing things in my life. Once I got out of shame and I got out of beating myself up and I just fully surrendered, like, God, I can't make myself good. I can't make myself not sin. Like, it's not on me. Like, I actually feel like I received grace in this season where I was like, it's not about my performance. It's not about me even sticking, keeping everything together. That's not my job. And so I just surrendered everything. and in that season it's funny because our child's name is phoenix which means rise up from the ashes and we would do these sessions before we would break out in this rehab center and they would say i got to know everyone very well and they were they would say phoenix may we rise up from the ashes too well so i knew i was like i'm carrying phoenix i'm in my phoenix season but we have to let it go to ashes for it to become beauty. We have to let it all just let it die for it to resurrect. Like a lot of our problem is going halfway for whatever reason. We're scared. We're ashamed. We feel prideful. Like, what will people think? Let it die. Let it burn because then God can do so much with it. And so that season was like, it was a long excruciating season because there's miracles, but then there's like the slow healing. So like you have the counselors, right? You have the physical part of it that you're walking out. There were insane miracles of like, I used to have, gosh, more than eight panic attacks a day. And then the next day I didn't. Like there was fast miracles and then slow, grueling, walk out your healing. And God is good in both. And God was after my heart in both. He literally was like, I can do that here. But here, I want you to know me. Like, it's all about knowing him. He's like, I want you to know me that I'm like a safe father to you and that I want to mend every broken place. And sometimes that takes time. We want fast food healing, fast food miracles, fast food everything. And God's like, we're going to simmer. We're going to simmer here. And it's actually his goodness to do that. And so in this season, Luke wrote a song called Burn the Ships, which talks, the bridge says, flush the pills, face the fear, feel the waves disappear. I'm coming clean. I'm born again. My hopeful lungs will breathe again. And it's talking about stepping into a new day, like burn the past. It's complete burning because we're not going to walk into the new if the old is still hanging there. It's just human nature. If we know it's there, we're going to go back. So I had to get rid of everything in the house. There was a time where I was like, I got to get rid of everything. At that time, a lot tempted me. It's like, get rid of Benadryl. Get rid of anything that could just be a little hook, right? When you're just sensitive. And that can be different for so many people. But God honors that. He's like, you're all in. Like, you're going to actually do it. But you have to because the flesh has to be disciplined. Because the spirit wants to. but the flesh is weak. And so you have to, well, it says like, eat it into submission of like, you will obey Christ. You will not take those pills. Especially when you're like, like, literally, you're just like, I want to, and I was detoxing and you want to, but you will not. It's this thing that happens. And so in that season, what was so cool, it was enough for God to heal me. It was enough for him to restore me and redeem me and a place in my life that felt like my greatest shame has become my greatest beauty. But then that he would make a song and then we would see it multiplied. Wow. Like people, I'm like, are you kidding me? Like you didn't write, like he's so good and like to see people free. People are free. But it's the crushing that creates the oil. It's the crushing that creates the oil. So it's like he's so good with our crushing that he's like, and now we will just like spread it around. He's a God of multiplication. He didn't have to, though. So good. This is so helpful. This is so helpful. Like I was going to say, walk people through how you come out of that. And then you're like counselors, this, that. Like you went through everything. Mind, body, spirit. This podcast started from the heart of we want to be a sister and a friend to those who don't have one. And that was the most ultimate sister and a friend moment to share with everyone listening what it looks like to really go through those hard trials. And there are and God can still be God is still good. And he is good in the fast miracles and the slow processes. And everything that you're saying is so true to the character of God when you read the word. I just got through Joseph's story, too. And I was just thinking about like it's the ultimate what you meant to harm me. God actually intended for our good. And then it says so that to provide life for us. So he's talking to his brothers who are scared that he's going to now turn their back on them now that the father died and he might not give them food and everything. He's like, no, no, no, I don't have to take this out on you. There's no revenge. There's nothing needed like what y'all meant to harm me. God actually intended for my good and for life to be preserved. And not only did God mean that for their family, but like for this nation, you know, and then you think about even the symbolism and the names and the meanings and like, that's the same God and your story is the same God in all of our stories, like Phoenix and this and that and what he did in your life. And now the world is burning ships. And it's like, it's so cool to see the same God in the Bible in our life today. Like, it's the most amazing thing. And we see that when we testify. And so many people are scared to testify because they're scared of the shame that comes with it. But like you said, like, there's no shame on that. Like, I was dead and I'm alive. Like I was lost. I'm found. Like I'm celebrating what God has done. And so thank you for sharing your story. That was beautiful. I want to ask lastly, because y'all do have this new song and there was a song with that. What is it like at the end or maybe even in the middle of these tough seasons of life? What is that like to write a song about it? Like, does that help? Is that like therapy to you? Does it help overcome something? Is it saying we're looking back on this now? And this is what God did, like sealing a moment? What is that like? Yeah. So I'll tell you just a brief story about when we nearly lost our son. We had this small little cabin and there was a porch and I was kind of just sitting on the porch. And I was just kind of crying out to God. I was like, God, you know. So you take me getting sick. You take this story. You take Leo. And this all happened in about four years' time, you know. And so some of these things, like my sickness kind of took up a year and a half of our life. This situation, you know, it takes time to work through these things. So it just felt like one hit after another. One hit, you know, just kind of like, whoa. And so I was kind of going, and even actually had a sibling kind of come to me. I was like, well, how do you handle this one? And I was, you know, at the moment you were kind of like, can you ask a different question? But what I realized was, is I was sitting on the couch, on the porch, and I was just praying. I was like, God, I don't actually know how to deal with this. I don't know how to, I don't know why the hits keep coming, you know? and I felt God say, and look, you know, sometimes you can get into, was it really God speaking? Was it really? But I think that, you know, as long as we qualify, like what I think God was speaking to me in that moment was I felt him say, Luke, these stories reflect my faithfulness and goodness in your life. So go tell them. Wow. And so when it comes to songs, I'm not like, there's certain songs that are off limits, maybe, you know, certain stories that it's like, this is just our family stuff, or this is just ours. There's certain things. But I think that God gives you testimonies to share them. And so, I kind of just made a decision, you know, on that porch that was like, God can have my stories, you know. And so, those stories become songs, you know, ever and ever before was a song that our engage-iversary is February 13th. And so, on February 13th, I sung, oh I love you, oh I love you more than ever before. And it felt significant because we're sitting there on an anniversary, kind of like a big moment, and you're starting to reflect on 15, 16 years, and you go, can I make that statement? Is that actually true? Yeah, it's true. Well then, you know, with everything that people know about, you know, not everybody knows these stories, but if they hear these stories and you can get to the end and say, oh I love you more, more than ever before. That speaks to covenant. That speaks to a love sustained. And the hope is, and for anybody that's watching, the hope is that our marriages reflect, once again, the goodness and faithfulness of who Jesus is. When you know the true love of who Jesus is, it makes sustained love in marriage that much easier because you're seeing it lived out in who Jesus is and who God the Father is and who the Holy Spirit is. Because sometimes it feels too much. Sometimes it feels too hard. But when you know how dearly loved you are by someone else, it oftentimes gives you the model to love the ones that are closest to you, to love your spouse. And so I think that's always been the hope is to, you know, yeah, it's a love song, but it's the love song is talking about, in some cases, a far greater love than we can ever comprehend. That's so good. Oh my gosh. This is so, so good, y'all. It's so helpful. This podcast, I say this sometimes when I'm sitting here and I'm like, wow, God, thank you so much for allowing us to have these conversations because it's not just a podcast. Like this is going to change someone's life. And the word says that like the enemy is going to be defeated by the blood of the lamb and the power of our testimony. And so there are people who are listening to this podcast right now. This is going to be the start of a life change. And I just encourage those who are listening. Don't let this just be a podcast you listen to and you say, oh, that was good. maybe one day I'll get help. Today, call a friend. Courtney did. That's the first time I ever called him and said, I need help. Call the friend today. Reach out to a counselor today. Go to a pastor today. Don't let this just go by because freedom is on the other side. Hope is on the other side. Certainty. And you're going to know God so much more than you ever have when you actually decide to dive in and get to know him in that personal way. So thank you all for sharing your story. Thank you for being real. Y'all are the realest deal. And your success makes so much sense. I'm so thankful that God has elevated y'all to the platform that you have so that the world can see such a beautiful family, such a beautiful picture of family and God's faithfulness. So y'all are amazing. Thank you. Thank you, Sadie. Appreciate the time. you