Inside the Cult of Scientology with Anne Gollert Hill (Part 2)

The views, personal accounts, and opinions expressed in this episode are solely those of the guest Ann Goldert Hill based on her own lived experiences and recollections. This podcast makes no independent factual claims regarding the Church of Scientology or any of its members, leaders, or affiliated individuals. All statements reflect the guest's personal perspective and memories should not be construed as established legal fact. The Church of Scientology denies many of these claims by former members. Neither this podcast its host, its production team, nor its parent company endorses, verifies, or assumes legal responsibility for the guest's accounts. This episode is produced for informational and entertainment purposes only. Listeners are encouraged to seek out multiple sources when forming their own conclusions. Nothing in this episode casso toots legal advice. Now let's get obsessed with this episode. Welcome back to Get Obsessed. This is Jules. I'm here with Mika, as always, and let's get to the real talk. If you have not listened to last week's episode yet, stop what you're doing, go back, and listen to that first. We're not kidding. Ann Goldert Hill came in and took us deep inside the cults of Scientology. It was one of those conversations that genuinely messed us up in the best way. Today we're back with part two and we're going deep in and we're pulling back the curtain on what actually happens behind Scientology's secretive walls. The cult's behaviors, the manipulation, the secrecy, and yes, we are absolutely talking about Tom Cruise and John Travolta because how could we not? This is the episode you are going to be screaming about, so share this with your friends, sit back, and let's get into it. When we go over these celebrities, it's not the center of your story, but we'll be fascinating for sure. So who do you want to know about first? Mika, you want to go ask the biggest one, of course, right? Yes, John Travolta. We'll start there. Okay. I spent a lot of time with him a couple of different occasions. One, I was interviewing him for the magazine of the Flag organization. First, before we get into John Travolta, can I tell you how come there are these celebrities in Scientology? This was designed by Elron Hubbard. Specifically, he wrote a whole program to get celebrities into Scientology and there was a whole way to do it because he knew if he did that, that Scientology become more popular. He had a whole plan and people are just continually putting that plan into action for years and years and years. I think it was back in the 70s or 80s when he wrote that plan. I don't have that particular information, but I've read it, so I know it's true. But anyway, so John Travolta, I was interviewing him. What a very sweet man. He is very kind, has the weirdest schedule, he sleeps during the day and works at night, but that's neither here nor there. I didn't care. Very much wanted to talk about his films. It was very funny. He had a night fever. He talked about it a lot. He just loved what he was doing and he really credited Scientology for all of it. I understand that. I do. I understand why he feels that way. I also understand that he is a celebrity Scientologist and he will never leave. People are like, John Travolta is leaving. No, he's not. He's not because celebrity Scientologists are treated with kid gloves. They are treated like superhuman, perfect. Yes, whatever you want. You come in in a separate entrance. You don't talk to these other peon Scientologists. They're treated very special, so I didn't have any reason to leave. Why would he? Please don't ever say anything bad about our John Travolta. I know you never wrote, but he just seems like the sweetest. He is a sweet demeanor. Yes, I'm sweet and I was a Scientologist, but that's the point. The point is that's who he is. I wish him nothing but the best. He's a good person. Scientologists, does that make you bad or good at all? No. Well, it does while you're in it. If you're in the Seaworth, I was mean mofo. I was a bitch. I was horrible because I had to learn how to be mean to people. Wait a minute. Say that again, Anne. Say it again. Like when people swear on those podcasts. I was a mean mofo. I was. I was a bitch. I was horrible. I would hurt people. I would imagine it's because it's like the abused now becomes the abuser. Correct. Yeah, it rolls downhill that abuse. Yeah. So this is like the dynamics of children or even women. If she's abused by her husband, her partner, she abuses the kids because that's what is the system. Micromanaging, someone that's a really terrible manager and a micromanage, nine times out of 10 that they have a boss that's a terrible micromanage is everything. So I could understand that. Sure. I think she's describing me as like a mother, but I am not. And if you're if you're listening to this on audio, I'm laughing at Julie. She just did these really funny robotic hand gestures. So I'm not laughing about abuse. I'm laughing at Julie right now. You should see her and we'll post this video on YouTube so you can. Oh, they are. Okay. I better take off my glasses. But be on your best behavior. Don't make me laugh as we're talking about abuse, Jules. This is a very serious conversation. There is, in our opinion, on the Obsessed podcast, there is manipulation and abuse. And Mika knows I'm obsessed with understanding the mind control of cults. So we heard John Travolta, super sweet guy. I feel like Kelly Preston, I think she was in Scientology. Yeah. How about Tom Cruise? What do you think about Tom Cruise? I'm gonna still let you talk in your opinion. And I'm just gonna not speak about this. But tell us what you think about probably the most famous Scientologist and maybe his ex-wife, Nicole Kinman. What happened with that? Okay, let's start with Tom Cruise. He is like David Miss Gavage's twin. Okay. That's how I would disdain. They are very close friends. We were not allowed to even look at him when he walked through the organization. We had to address him as sir. No lie. Okay. We were in the seaward. Okay. He wasn't. This is how I can describe how David Miss Gavage, Tom Cruise, every year at this International Association of Scientologists event, they give away an award, like a medal who's done the most to promote Scientology. So he got a special award this one year. It was my last year in the seaward and there's a reason. So he got this special award. And we're all sitting there, all of these people at Flagg in the seaward. We're sitting watching this video of David Miss Gavage talking about Tom Cruise and how he is the most dedicated Scientologist he knows. And we're all like, what? How can you say that? We are the most dedicated Scientologists you know, motherfucker. That's how I felt. Oh my, sorry. No, you're fine. You're fine. But that was so angry. We don't usually have people swearing like this, but we like it. Our friends are going through the roof right now. But anyway, so what happened was I never actually met him in person because I had to stay in the background when he was coming through. I had to clean, like we had this all hands on deck preparing his quarters for him when he came up to the base, right? It was ridiculous. He was with Nicole Kidman for a long time until they decided that they needed to divorce because she was pulling him away from Scientology. And this Gavage was not going to have that. So they created this whole plan and they did, they did break them up. It was Scientology who broke them up in my humble opinion. Okay. I'm just going to say it's my opinion. I won't say I was there and watch the whole thing happen. Well, I can see how religion and technically it is a religion because they're getting taxed benefits as a church. So I can see how that is because in other religions, like if someone is Jewish and another person is Christian, but they love each other, they will have most likely it's usually the woman that does convert. And I can see how religion does break a relationship and break up a marriage. And so that does sound very reasonable, plausible, I should say. Yeah, plausible. You're right. Yeah. Not that it's reasonable. It's never reasonable to say something like that, but it is plausible and it's really just crazy. But I want to know about Leah Remini. I have never met her. I was good friends with very good friends with Mike Render. We worked together for many years and I loved him dearly after we got out. Who is Mike Render? Tell everyone who Mike Render. Mike Render was the one who hosted the Aftermath show with Leah Remini. And he had been in management in the office of special affairs doing all Scientology's dirty work for many, many years and then he escaped. And the first time I met Mike Render after he got out of the Seaworth, I was at a book signing for an author who had done a book about Scientology and he happened to be there and I saw him and I freaked out and I was like, I don't want to see him. I know what he did to me in Scientology or how he treated me. And he saw me and I was like, oh, God, he saw me. He comes up to me after the book signing, throws his arms around me, gives me a big hug and he says, I'm so happy to see you and that you're doing so well and I'm so sorry for anything that I might have done. I mean, it was just so genuine and loving when he started working with Leah Remini. That told me everything I needed to know about who she is because she is so dedicated to showing the abuses of this organization. Yeah, and authenticity. That's what I'm getting from her. So super authentic and what a good person and what a hard worker and she didn't have to do what she's doing and she's doing it anyway. And she's doing it anyway. Which is super impressive. It just makes me kind of come back to this. There's this belief that I have and the belief is that any religion, whether it's Buddhism, Hinduism, Christianity, Judaism, Islam, it doesn't matter what faith someone has. It matters how you treat someone, how you treat someone that is not like you, that doesn't have the faith that you have, and how you treat people that are within your faith. That to me, it shows what kind of organization someone that you're a part of. Correct. You know, the proof is in the pudding in that sense. So for it to have it treated the public Scientology, those people well, but in this other part of Scientology, like the upper levels that you're a part of, to be treated with contempt, to be harassed and to be vilified and to use force and mind control and manipulation and to use anger to co-horigen to actually get your message across and to get your people to work or to have them moving and operating on that level. There's no light of truth in some type of organization like that. You are what is not loving. No, there's no such thing as love in Scientology. I'll tell you what I mean by that. So in Scientology, there's something called the tone scale, which is a scale of emotions, and it goes from plus 40 to minus 40, and it's all these levels of emotion that you have. So there's emotions like serenity and fear and anger and hate and all these different emotions, but love is not on there. It does not exist. It's amazing to me. I realized that after I got out, I was like, wow, that's crazy, but it's true. They're not about love, because they consider, okay, and you were saying that the mind control is only more on the serenity of members, but it's on everyone. Everyone who's in Scientology experiences it to a greater or lesser degree. They are not allowed to look at any information that is anti-Scientology, because if they do, they're told that it's going to ruin their spiritual progress. So they're not allowed to play Coltie. Here, he's in the word spiritual and something that is not really... Yeah, but they say it's spiritual. Scientology has what's called the bridge to spiritual freedom. So you do all these levels and you're supposed to get to the top and be spiritually free, except it's all bogus, okay? But people pay hundreds of thousands of dollars to get to these levels only to... How much would someone like Tom Cruise pay to be... Oh, he's paid millions and millions and millions, but he just gives the money. It's probably now to get to the highest level. It's got to be, I would say, anywhere from $700,000 to $1 million. So, Anne, how much did you pay? Oh, well, I only paid... Basically, I went bankrupt, paying for a certain amount of training. And then I joined the Sea Org, or I joined an organization where I got more training for free in exchange for working for them. And then I joined the Sea Org, where I got tons of training for working 18 hours a day with no sleep, but I didn't pay for it. But I paid, I was 27, I think I paid about 60 or $70,000 in 1987 or 88. And it's ludicrous. It is amazing. Yeah. So what they're going for, this is what Scientology says, we are here to make the able more able, meaning we don't want any losers, we don't want anyone that's had any mental health treatment, we don't want anybody who can't afford us. That's the story. Let's get the rich losers. Yeah, you're a warring the loser, but the rich people that think they don't need it. I wasn't even rich. That's the problem. I just put it all on credit cards, man. Wow. Yeah. And then I had all these bankruptcies and all this stuff, and they didn't care. They were just like, join the Sea Org. Wow. We can't handle that for you. Incredible. Wow. This is incredible that I thought. And the truth is, is that you dedicated your life, you gave up your ability to even make your own thought, you gave up your autonomy, gave up your rights, basically, willingly to have children. And there was that day where you walked out, August 3rd, 2007, where you just walked out by yourself. I'm guessing it was not just one day you're like, I'm Bill and I hate this stuff. Oh, God, no. Tell us about that story, the story of you waking up, the story of the escape. What was it like and what were those red flags where you were like, yeah, no, thank you. No, thank you. Well, you know, there were many red flags along the way. Just so you know, I have a five-part series on my TikTok about this. That's what's getting all the hits. Okay. And people want to hear the story, but I'm going to give you the basics because it's such a long story and we don't have time for it here. But when you're in something like this and you see what's happening in front of you and in your brain, you're going, God, this is not what I'm reading. This is not what I'm learning. Why are people being like this when this is not what I'm learning about? I don't understand it. And I was, instead of going, oh, this is all completely fucked. I was like, well, I'm just not understanding it, right? Right? Again, they put it back on you. You're not understanding it, right? So you need to learn more so that you need to go higher and higher in these levels so that you figure it out. So I worked really hard to get to this level called OT3, which is when they first tell you about ZNU and aliens attached to you that are causing all the problems in your entire life, and not just for you, but for all the people in the world, right? And you're supposed to get rid of them, so you have to do all these processes. Well, the first time, so I got to that level as a Sierra member, which is almost impossible. Very few Sierra members do it. But I'm an overachiever, so I did. And I got to this level and I walked in. I had my materials that were in a locked suitcase because nobody could see them because if you read these materials, you would die. That's what Albert Howard said. If you read about ZNU, you would die. So everybody, I apologize right now. I hope you don't get sick, but I'm just telling you. So I go in and I open this up and I start reading Elron Hubbard's handwritten OT3 materials, right? OT is operating fate, and the fate is a spiritual being in Scientology. And operating fate is supposed to be common. Like actually handwritten, hey, just actual notes. That's good. Wow. So I'm reading this and talking about, it's talking about volcanoes and DC8 planes and ZNU, the evil overlord. And I'm reading it going, and something inside me was like, what the f- what? What is this? This is what I've gotten all this way, almost 20 years, and this is what I'm seeing. But then I tamped it down and I went, no, no, you got to trust this, trust the process. You know, I got to just do this. So I did all this processing to get these evil aliens out of my body. And so at the end of that, that was a few months, at the end of that, I attested to being OT3. I was one of the special people that reached that level. Within two months, I was gone. I was out. Because something inside me was strong enough to go, ah, okay, this is the straw that's going to break the camel's back. It wasn't instant, but it did happen. And then I started seeing more and more and more and more and more. A lot of people, when they read those materials, they don't have that feeling, but I sure did. And it's like, you are a freaking dup. You had been duped. Like Bud's Bunny said, I was an ultra maroon. What a maroon, you know? But I couldn't admit that to myself, so it was a few more months. How did you do it though? Because so you're like, I'm out. Because you're already, you're getting housing from there. This is where you eat, you know, your groceries provided. So when you leave there, where did you go? This is the best part of the story. So when I went to flag, the reason I ended up at flag is because David and Miss Gammage kicked me to the curb there because I didn't sell a lecture series he wanted me to sell. So I ended up scrubbing the corners of the dish room with a toothbrush for like days on end. But that's a whole, I've got so many stories, but you just, I can't say it all here. When I was at flag though, eventually I went back into promotion and marketing because nobody could do what I could do. I had all these skills and I ran the promotion and marketing department and in that department, there was a little phone line that was not connected for some weird reason. I think it was an angel. I had a guardian angel because there was for some weird reason. Yes, you did. This line was not connected to the main phone lines. Usually in order to make a phone call out when you're in the sea or you have to have it monitored, you can't be alone on a phone with anyone. But this was a separate phone line and nobody knew about it except the people in my office and they wanted to use it too. My mother and father lived in Lakeland, Florida, which is about 50 miles from Clearwater. So I had gone to see them once when I first moved to flag or was kicked to flag because I didn't have any barbed wire and it's a really bad PR if I'm not able to go see my family that's 50 miles away. When I was at it, there was no way I could see anybody because it was very well guarded. So I went and saw them once and I gave them on the phone number and then she would just call me once a week, once a week without fail and she'd say, hi, how are you? How's work? How's things? Do you need anything? Come visit when you can and I love you and that's all she would do. And she did that for three years. Can you imagine how strong she was to be able to do that? Yes, yes. So instead of saying you're an occult, you got to get out, she hadn't seen me for 14 years. She didn't even know if I was alive for 14 years. She was smart enough to keep that contact with me for 14 years so she knew. She was that smart. And nobody does that. They think they can talk somebody out of being an occult. You cannot but you can love them out of it. She was that smart. And she loved me out of it. She was there for me. Eventually, I got okay. This is how it happened. This is how I actually left. I got okay to go see my parents for their 60th wedding anniversary. And it was quite a process to get okay. I talk about it on my TikTok video but I got okay and I had not been to their 50th because I was at the In Face and Hemet and there was no way I could go. I mean, people whose parents died didn't get to go to their funerals but that's, again, another story. So I was able to rent a car. Unbelievable. I know. There's so much. That's why I have a book. But I was able to rent a car at Enterprise Rent-A-Car around the corner from the flag building because they would rent to CR members back then in 2007 without a credit card, which is a good thing because none of us had credit cards. None of us had bank accounts. So I had to have a driver's license though because they needed it for legal reasons. The CR did, right? That I had to have ID. So I had a driver's license. I rented a car because I'd saved up my $35 allowance for a few weeks. That's all we got. And then I drove down to my parents' anniversary party and I was only supposed to be down for the night and come back the next day. And it was the most beautiful, loving, wonderful, fun. We all laughed and I started something cracked and I started to remember what life used to be like with these people and how much fun my life used to be and that it wasn't fun anymore. And there was no love in my life anymore. It was just pain and it just started to crack. And that night, I was supposed to drive back and my older brother who lived, he was an over-the-road trucker. So he and his wife were on a holiday in, in Lakeland. And they said, why don't you just stay with us? We had two beds and you can just sleep on one of them and leave in the morning instead of leaving tonight. I was like, okay. So I thought I could do this, right? I can stay with them and they'll never know. They'll never know that I wasn't there at nighttime. They'll just see me at morning muster. We had three musters a day. These are like military musters where you all line up in your divisions and you have to be president of account of four and blah, blah, blah. So I had to be there for 930. You're blowing my mind with all of this. And yeah, continue, please. So I had to be there for 930 muster. I know, right? So it's crazy, isn't it? So I had to be there for muster and I got there in time and then right after muster. And by the way, when I was driving home in the morning, I was feeling great. I was like, I'm going to get back to work. I feel rejuvenated and refreshed. I'm going to go clear the planet. Yay. I get there. I go to muster. I get called immediately into a meeting with the deputy executive director of the base who I didn't like her very much. I would call her a shrew. She was very shrewish. She'd been hardened by the sea org and she was not a nice person. And she started immediately screaming at me and saying, how the hell did you go down and see your family when you don't have this marketing campaign done? Like screaming, calling me every name in the book. And you know what happened on the inside of me at that time? That was it. I went, aha, that's the difference. I'm done. I didn't tell her that. I just said, yes, sir. She says, you got to stay up all night. Have your team stay up all night and get this campaign done. Yeah, right. Okay. Okay, I'll do that. Yes, sir. Yes, sir. Go back to my office. I tell my entire staff, leave. This is my problem. I'll handle it. That's what I told them. So I sent them all home. It was about 11 o'clock. I couldn't send them home during the day. We had to work till 10 or 11. So I sent them home at 11 o'clock. And then I sat in my office for eight hours, nine hours, rewriting a letter over and over and over again, trying to figure out if I really could leave. Could I really leave? I'm leaving everything I know. I'm leaving all my friends. I'm leaving my belief system. I'm leaving everything. What am I going to do? Who am I going to be? But I knew I had my family. That's one thing I didn't know. And that's all I had. I had nothing except I had my family and that was everything. Finally, at eight o'clock in the morning, I printed out that letter. It was like, don't follow me. I'm not coming back. I'm done with this. You can label me a suppressive person, which is what they do. You can stay unresponsive for all the problems in Scientology. I do not care. Do not follow me. I'm gone. And I left and I drove down to Lake Clinton. I was like, okay, hopefully my brother and sister-in-law are still at the Holiday Inn, right? Because I knew we had to go on the road the next day. So I drove to the Holiday Inn. God, I could not drive to my mom and dad's house because they knew where they live. And I couldn't drive to my younger brother's house who was also in Lakeland because they know where he lives. They know everything about me because you have to do a whole life history when you join the Sea War, another story. So I get to the Holiday Inn and my brother's truck is not there. And I'm like, oh, crap. What am I going to do now? Panic, panic, panic. And I went, no. Okay. Now, real life hadn't slept. And I go, okay, I'm going to go up to the room and see if anybody's there. I'm just going to chance this. And I walk up to the room and I knock on the door and my sister-in-law opens the door and she looks at me. She says, wow. I said, and I just burst into tears and said, I left. I'm not going back. She grabs me like this and yanks me in the room, throws her arms around me and she's like, oh my God, I'm so happy. I'm like, I don't know if I am. I just know I'm not going back. And my brother wasn't there though. But he was on the phone with her. And long story short, he took me with him across the country in his 18-wheeler for two weeks so they couldn't follow me. Oh my gosh. I'm on the edge of my seat here. You captivate me. I'm not sure you all listening right now. And you two do look like we're all captivated. I'm trying to digest what your story, like what you just shared as your final moments as a Scientologist. And I have to go back just a little bit. I've never seen Mika like this actually on an interview. Like usually if she's like too late, we're over. She's usually like, we're done. She's like, I need to know more. And I don't tell my secrets. We have other guests that are going to be on in the future. The truth is Mika did not really know about Scientology. I'm obsessed. I'm not obsessed with cults, but I love worrying about cults from Polygamy. You love true crimes. You love I want to go back before I lose my point here. Keith Morrison is my spirit animal. Keith Morrison. I love him. You're okay. He's Canadian like me. Anyway, I want to go back to this before you two make me forget my point. Okay, so you blew my mind just now, but I kind of want to go back so that the audience listening, so you they're listening, we kind of go back to what you were saying, Ann, where you're $35 a week allowance, you're getting, they're providing housing and I'm sure they're providing food, but no one has bank accounts. No one has credit cards. No one, so basically no one's established credit. So if someone wanted to have a home in a future, they don't have any established credit. So the mortgage company, the mortgage lenders are going to deny that person. If someone wanted to buy a car, they're going to get denied because there's a very thin credit profile. I have a credit background, so that's how I can talk about all of this stuff. And so I see the dependency. These adults, you are all treated like dependence, like a child and Scientology held all the cards. You are unable to have a life outside of Scientology. So there is a mental aspect of it. There's the mental abuse that I see going on, the emotional abuse, the way your boss was yelling at you and calling you names, like that is verbal abuse. So you've got verbal abuse. You have, I don't even know, financial abuse is a word, but absolutely. Okay, there's financial abuse because it's abuse. There was just abuse. Just to go back to domestic violence, if a woman is, because mostly men can be abused also, so I want to say that, but usually it's a woman that is abused. And if she does not have a job, he holds all the cards, so everything is in his name, so she does not have any financial power. So there's that financial abuse. I'm seeing all the signs of an abusive relationship in this and what you described. And so for an adult to not have these access, and you say car, was that your car or was that the car? The rental car. The rental, the enterprise rental. I'm just blown away. So there's a system created to make someone unable to leave, not even if you wanted to leave, even if someone wanted to leave, there's these infrastructures and plays that make it to where it's like, if I leave, I'm going to be homeless. Right. Well, that's what they tell you too. You're going to be homeless. You're going to be flipping burgers and McDonald's. Also, because if you leave the theater, it gets the worst thing you can possibly do in all of Scientology, and it means you're a degraded being, and you're going to have the worst eternity known to man. It's incredible. That's why I wrote the book. I wanted to show people that there's life after this kind of narcissistic abuse, and it's not just for cults, any kind of abuse. You can't get yourself out of it, but it takes a lot. I can't even tell you how much we love you, and I'm sure we will be tapping into your brain because not obviously, this is not an obvious thing, but I am obsessed with understanding those, that those people who are groomers and those that want to start call some of those who want to be in call sent. Trust me, we might have you on as a guest expert going on. Mika, I genuinely don't have words. This has been one of the most profound podcasts for us, don't you think? I make sure we'll put everything about Ann in the show notes so you can click on her, find out all about her. She has not just lived, she has survived, and what she has to say this stuff out loud because I get scared when I say stuff about big memes. I don't even want to say it like I say Scientology, I get nervous because I can understand that. They're notoriously litigious, but you have to understand something. I have spent almost 20 years deconstructing all this. That's why I wrote the book. There are things that you have to do to get past all that and get past the fear because the fear is what they want. That's what they want. They want you to be afraid. I am not afraid. I am highly successful right now. The perfect marriage. I swear to God, my husband is... You and your husband look amazing. You have found your peace. I have found my peace. That is exactly it, Julie. I have found my peace. And how long have you and your husband been married? 15 years now. He met me when I was out of Scientology for two years, so I was still a mess. And I was going through menopause. He married me, that crazy man, and he stayed. How are you able to use your maternal instincts? Yeah, I have seven grandchildren. I thought I thought that. And they all call me Granny Annie. Granny Annie. I want to commend you, Ann, because you did a Herculane... That's a good word, Herculane. Thank you. Very good. Beyond Herculane. Got it. I would still be in the sea right now. Yeah, I'd be there like yesterday. No, sir. I'm sorry, sir. I'm sorry. You know, flinching. Don't hit me. Don't hit me. Get me there yesterday. Just find a new spot. But I want to really commend you in all seriousness. I know I'm joking, but I do want to say it's such a brave thing that you did do in 2007. And you were brave even before then, because you already... You had these inklings. You had some nudges. You felt like something was off. And it led you to eventually, to say, peace out in 2007. I am just amazed by what you created for yourself and to be brave enough to be bigger and stronger than your fears, the fears that they implanted in you. And then your mom, your family, your whole family, to be able to reach you through love and not, like you said, to not tell you, get out of a cult. You're in a cult, but to love you through and to remind you that you are love. And it created this contrast between your supervisor the next morning when he got there and the hate and the anger she spewed on you. And it was created this sharp contrast to your mother. And it was that love that kind of like, it was like, wait a minute, I am safe. I have somewhere to go to. I do have a home outside of this. And I just want to commend you. And for you listening on the audience members that you don't necessarily, we don't have to tell someone what to do. We can love them through a situation and reminding people, let Ann's story remind you that you can show your support. And just because someone stays in a situation, whether Scientology, another cult, or an abusive relationship, you can remind someone regularly that and frequently that how much they are love and how much you're right there for them. And then they're able to make the right decision one day that feels good to them and remember that you were there for them. So let Ann's story remind you of that. Marinette, Marinette with Ann's story, she is amazing. I just looking at her face and I told Mika before Mika had not met her before we spoke today. I said, you will see Ann's light, Ann Hill's light. And I know she did because I know I see in Mika's eyes that she is obsessed with Ann Hill. Guys will be obsessed with Ann Hill. One thing I want you to do, make sure you check out the show notes, follow Ann on TikTok, follow her on Instagram. She has a book coming out and it's going to be amazing. She is going to change the world. By the way, if you are in Florida, if you're in Lakeland and or Winterhaven, maybe we do a book reading at your cafe, Mika. Let's do it. Let's do it. I gotta get it through the editor and you know, this is all that first. This is a lot of pressure because I'm asking but I can tell Mika loves Ann as much as I do. If you're in Southern Central Florida, Lakeland, Winterhaven, check them both out, Google it of the Imanar. And also just check out everything in the show notes because we have so many links. And Mika has one more thing she's putting up her finger. My finger is up and I just want to just give Jules the opportunity. Jules, it's okay. You can come forward the cult that you're in. Unless you know that it's time to just come forward, Jules, just let it go. You can do this, girl. I'm in the Mika cult and I'm in the Ann Hill cult. And I really thought about this before. There is something beautiful about a cult. It is a little cult. It is about bringing people around you, doing good. But there is something about a cult that is very, very bad, which we kind of tiptoed around today. I honestly think that Mika and I will have to do a part two when your book launches because- Right, most definitely. And Mika, yes, we love and are obsessed with Ann Hill. Guys, check out the show notes. If you love Ann Hill as much as I do and Mika does, number one, check out everything, number two. 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